Return to Transcripts main page

CNN Newsroom

Gaza Ceasefire Talks Pick Up Steam; Source: Hamas Weighing Ceasefire And Hostage Release Proposal; Columbia University Suspends Students After Talks Fail; Police Clear Pro-Palestinian Protesters at Sorbonne University; Iranian Students Support U.S. University Protesters; Protesters Take Over a Main Building at Columbia University. Aired 2-2:45a ET

Aired April 30, 2024 - 02:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[02:00:30]

ROSEMARY CHURCH, CNN INTERNATIONAL ANCHOR: Hello and welcome to our viewers' joining U.S. from all around the world and to everyone streaming us on CNN Max. I'm Rosemary Church. Just ahead, a glimmer of hope in Israel and Gaza as ceasefire and hostage release talks restart after months of deadlock.

Protests that have gripped U.S. college campuses, meanwhile, show little sign of stopping, even as schools begin suspending students and on-campus arrests pile up.

And too little too late. Ukraine cleaves with allies to speed up weapons deliveries as Russian troops gain ground in the east.

ANNOUNCER: Live from Atlanta, this is CNN NEWSROOM with Rosemary Church.

CHURCH: Thanks for joining us. The White House is telling Hamas leaders they should accept the latest proposal by Egypt to end the war in Gaza. One Israeli official tells CNN that mid-level Israeli security officials will travel to Cairo on Tuesday if Hamas goes as well. The leaders of Egypt and Qatar say they spoke by phone separately with U.S. President Joe Biden on Monday. They discussed the possibility for a ceasefire and a more permanent solution to the conflict.

U.S. Secretary of State Antony Blinken is traveling from Saudi Arabia to Jordan on Tuesday. He says the current proposal is, "extraordinarily generous." But inside Gaza, not much has changed early Monday, Israeli airstrike killed at least 22 people in Rafah according to hospital officials there.

CNN's Jeremy Diamond has more on the proposed agreement and the reaction to it. And a warning, parts of his report are graphic.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE) JEREMY DIAMOND, CNN WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Smoke from the latest Israeli airstrike rises near the tents of the displaced in Rafah, and it could get much worse. Israel is threatening a major ground offensive here. But far from the bombs and bullets, another path is emerging. Egypt putting forward a new framework for a ceasefire and hostage deal.

SAMEH SHOUKRY, MINISTER OF FOREIGN AFFAIRS OF EGYPT: There is a proposal on the table up to the two sides to consider and accept, but certainly the objective is a ceasefire.

DIAMOND (voiceover): Under the latest proposal, an Israeli source and a foreign diplomatic source tells CNN that Hamas would release between 20 and 33 hostages in exchange for a pause in the fighting, and the release of hundreds of Palestinian prisoners over several weeks. Palestinians would also get unrestricted access to northern Gaza, a

new Israeli concession. Israel and Hamas would then agree to what diplomats are calling the restoration of sustainable calm.

A one-year ceasefire that would see Israeli troops withdraw from Gaza and the release of the remaining Israeli hostages.

ANTONY BLINKEN, UNITED STATES SECRETARY OF STATE: Hamas has before it a proposal that is extraordinarily, extraordinarily generous on the part of Israel. And in this moment, the only thing, standing between the people of Gaza and a ceasefire is Hamas.

DIAMOND (voiceover): As Israeli officials expect Hamas' leader in Gaza to respond in the coming days, hostage families are driving up the pressure on the Israeli government.

AVIVA SIEGEL, FREED HOSTAGE: I know the feeling of losing hope. Bring Keith back to me. Bring back my hope. Bring Keith and all the hostages, the lives back. We can't handle any more. We've had enough.

DIAMOND (voiceover): Failing to reach a deal only promises more pain for those hostage families and more unspeakable grief in Rafah. Israeli airstrikes killing 22 people overnight in Rafah according to hospital officials, including five children. Nestled among the body bags, the small body of one-year-old Dei Fala Abu Taha (ph) is impossible to miss. He was among 10 members of his family killed overnight.

We were sitting in our homes not doing anything, his uncle says. Everyone was asleep in their beds. This is who they're targeting. This is their objective. This is the generation they're targeting. The stakes of ceasefire negotiations all too clear.

Jeremy Diamond, CNN, Jerusalem.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

[02:05:01]

CHURCH: Aaron David Miller is a former U.S. State Department Middle East negotiator and a senior fellow at the Carnegie Endowment for International Peace. He joins me now from Washington. Appreciate you being with us.

AARON DAVID MILLER, FORMER U.S. STATE DEPARTMENT MIDDLE EAST NEGOTIATOR: Thanks for having me, Rosemary.

CHURCH: So, Egypt has put forward a new framework for a hostage and ceasefire deal which proposes the release of 20 to 33 hostages in exchange for a pause in fighting and the release of hundreds of Palestinian prisoners. Hamas is now considering this proposal that could avert an Israeli invasion of Rafah. What is your reaction to this first part of the deal?

MILLER: You know, it's all about urgency, Rosemary. I mean, negotiations close or don't close based on whether or not the party's involved or in a hurry. And I think we can say this, the administration is clearly in a hurry. Without this Israeli Hamas deal, and they've been pushing as many people as they can, the Egyptians, the Qataris, anyone with influence on Hamas to encourage them to accept this.

Without this deal, the administration can't even begin to deescalate Israeli military activity in Gaza, free any of the hostages, and or surge humanitarian assistance into Gaza, let alone activate and put on the table its regional peace initiative. So, it's clear that the Americans are in a hurry. The Israelis, I think, are under a little bit of pressure, more pressure perhaps than any time since mid- November during the last exchange.

The question is, I think whether (INAUDIBLE) only decision maker on the Palestinian side who's ensconced in a tunnel somewhere. Khan Younis, Rafah Rafel, or maybe even Sinai in a tunnel, whether or not he believes that this deal serves his interests. And that's, I think, very few people, even those intimately associated with the negotiations, can read what (INAUDIBLE) wants. That's what is going to depend on.

And I just don't know what their -- what his calculations are. Trading hostages means giving away cards. You'll still have 50, even if this deal goes through. But at the same time, I suspect we probably are in a better position and closer than at any point since no last exchange in November to do a limited exchange, limited exchange.

CHURCH: Another part of this new proposal, put forward by Egypt, includes what diplomats call the restoration of sustainable calm. A one-year ceasefire that would see Israeli troops withdraw from Gaza, and the release of any remaining hostages, U.S. Secretary of State, Anthony Blinken, who, of course, is in the region, says this is, "extraordinarily generous on the part of Israel" and that Hamas is the only thing standing in the way of a ceasefire.

What's your assessment of this new proposal overall, and including this, obviously, and how likely is it that Hamas will accept this, do you think?

MILLER: Yes. I mean, again, this is such an opaque negotiation, done indirectly with the key decision maker, how they're communicated with (INAUDIBLE) clear and you know the Israelis are tracking, potentially, trying to divine where he is, because where he is over the hostages are. But after six plus months, they still can't find him. I think it's going to be tricky for the Israelis. A permanent ceasefire, I think, is beyond their capacity to accept.

And I just wonder, even if they agree to a sustainable period of calm for six weeks, even several months, they are determined to ensure that Hamas, as a military organization, is undermined and not in the position to do another October 7th and they're determined to kill the senior leadership. So, you have to wonder what kind of commitment the Israelis are prepared to make and above all, if in fact you don't get some sort of Palestinian governing structure or Arab force boots on the ground to maintain security.

I don't think the Israelis are prepared to accept a situation where they cannot, when they want, enter Gaza to deal with the potential threat of a resurgent Hamas. Hamas is an insurgency, launching rockets, or even trying to attempt another cross-border incursion. So, I think that's going to be very tricky and I think ambiguity here may well serve this deal. The question is whether or not, if this deal goes through and you can advance to a final stage, whether there's any way to create what I think everybody wants to see, which is an end to this war, security for the Israelis, and a much better security and prosperity, humanitarian assistance and reconstruction for the 2.3 million Gazans.

I suspect there are a lot of moving parts of this, Rosemary. And I think, whatever expectations there are for a -- for post-conflict stability, I think they're going to be sorely tested.

[02:10:09]

If you get through this phase and into the next.

CHURCH: Aaron David Miller, thank you so much for joining us and sharing your perspective. I appreciate it.

MILLER: Thanks for having me, Rosemary.

CHURCH: Stand offs, crack down, suspensions and the message times up. As pro-Palestinian protests spread to more universities across the United States, fed up administrators are taking more forceful measures to make the encampments go away ahead of commencement ceremonies. Protesters have now been detained on dozens of campuses. Most recently, at Virginia Commonwealth University, officers in riot gear were seen arresting people throwing at least one of them to the ground.

Police arrested around 40 people at the University of Texas in Austin on Monday, according to the Defend Palestine encampment. Here you can see the dozens of campuses where students have been arrested for protesting the month's long assault on Gaza. They stretch across at least 16 states. Back at Columbia University, the epicenter of the student movement, negotiations between protesters and administrators have fallen apart.

And the university has now begun suspending students. Demonstrators had been given a Monday afternoon deadline to disperse, which they dismissed. CNN's Miguel Marquez has details.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

MIGUEL MARQUEZ, CNN SENIOR NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Protesting students at New York's Columbia University, standing their ground in their pro-Palestinian encampment. After they say talks between protesters and the administration broke down.

SUEDA POLAT, COLUMBIA STUDENT NEGOTIATOR: We were engaging in good faith negotiations until the administration cut them off under threat of suspensions.

MARQUEZ (voice-over): Protesters inside and outside the Ivy League campus after a deadline passed, refusing to leave until their demands are met.

POLAT: Minouche Shafik claimed that we had had constructive dialogue. The university will not divest from Israel.

MARQUEZ (voice-over): Encircling the protest encampment on college grounds.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: We're here to protect the students.

MARQUEZ (voice-over): Even after administrators set a hard deadline to clear the way for a graduation ceremony, the tensions on display outside Columbia's main gates as well.

One woman forcibly removed by the New York City Police Department. The pressure ramping up during final exam week, the university threatening suspensions and expulsions. But promising protesters they would be eligible to complete the semester in good standing if they sign a form promising to abide by university policies through June 2025.

The tactic and earlier police involvement in moving protesters has failed to disband the encampment. Protesters saying.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: These repulsive scare tactics mean nothing compared to the deaths of over 34,000 Palestinians.

MARQUEZ (voice-over): The majority of Columbia students just trying to get through finals.

ROY KAY, COLUMBIA STUDENT: These circumstances have made things especially difficult. Most of my classes actually last week have been canceled outright.

MARQUEZ (voice-over): The groundswell of protests here growing in recent weeks. It set off a wave of protest encampments at universities nationwide.

State troopers pushing back against protesters at the University of Texas coming after nearly 60 arrests last week. Emotions rising with graduation just weeks away. But for many colleges, the fallout continues. Emory University's faculty now calling for a vote of no confidence of President Gregory Fenves after two professors were arrested and students faced pepper balls and tasers. The president saying in a statement he found the videos to be deeply distressing and apologizing to students for an earlier statement in which he said the people behind the encampment on the quad were not members of the Emory community.

Coming at a time many universities are struggling to balance the right to free speech while protecting their students' ability to pursue their education.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

MARQUEZ: So, the big question is what next for Columbia University? Protesters say they will not leave their encampment willingly. The university says that they could face expulsion but does not want to bring NYPD in to clear the protesters again. But finals are underway, commencements in a couple of weeks. At some point, push is going to come to shove. Back to you.

CHURCH: Four law enforcement officers are dead after shooting in the U.S. state of North Carolina. Eight officers were shot at while attempting to serve a warrant at a home. Three of them were killed on the scene and ones succumbed to his

injuries late Monday. Charlotte's police chief praised their bravery.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

[02:15:12]

CHIEF JOHNNY JENNINGS, CHARLOTTE-MECKLENBURG POLICE DEPARTMENT: They knew that they had officers that needed help. They needed to be extracted from their location. Yet they went in. Some getting shot themselves as a result. So, the bravery, the heroism, everything that goes down with that defines what our profession is, our people demonstrated that today.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

CHURCH: Local police say the officers were met with gunfire as they approached the home and returned fire killing one suspect. Police have not yet released all their identities. Charlotte's police chief says this is the most tragic shooting he's seen in more than 30 years of work. In a statement, U.S. President Joe Biden called the officers' heroes who made the ultimate sacrifice, adding leaders in Congress need to step up so that we ban assault weapons and high-capacity magazines, require safe storage of guns and pass universal background checks and a national red flag law. Enough is enough.

Well, still to come. Ukraine seems to be losing ground as Russian forces move in along the front line and the slow arrival of military assistance is making things harder on the battlefield.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK) CHURCH: At least five people are dead and 28 others injured after a Russian missile strike in the southern Ukrainian city of Odesa. Ukrainian officials say the attack targeted one of the most popular places in the city where people go to walk their dogs and play sports. The strike also damaged several buildings, homes and businesses, including the student's palace at the Odesa Lore Academy. Officials say two children and a pregnant woman are among the wounded.

Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelenskyy says incoming military aid is not arriving fast enough. The issue was a top priority in meetings with NATO Secretary-General Jens Stoltenberg in Kyiv on Monday. Stoltenberg admitted that NATO allies had not delivered what they promised. While speaking alongside Zelenskyy, he said delays in support have triggered, "serious consequences on the battlefield."

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

VOLODYMR ZELENSKYY, PRESIDENT OF UKRAINE (through translator): Timely support for our army. Today, I don't see anything positive on this point yet. There are supplies. They have slightly begun. This process needs to be sped up.

JENS STOLTENBERG, NATO SECRETARY GENERAL: Ukraine has been outgunned for months, forced to ration its ammunition. But it's not too late for Ukraine to prevail. More support is on the way.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

[02:20:00]

CHURCH: Russia is taking advantage of Ukraine's delayed assistance ramping up pressure on the front line. CNN's Nick Paton Walsh has more.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

NICK PATON WALSH, CNN CHIEF INTERNATIONAL SECURITY CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): While U.S. Congress delayed, the damage here was already done. This is rare body camera footage from Russians, confident in their advances in the east, slow but sure. Adding to a list of nowhere villages, falling to Moscow day by day, claiming Monday to have taken here, Novomykhailivka. As Ukraine almost always stops short of saying how bad it's got.

No more true of that is the fate of Ocheretyne, another tiny village in Donetsk, also of southern unwanted fame. Despite the brutal pounding and evacuation, you can see here, a military spokesman claims Sunday the Russians only had a partial foothold.

Currently, they're part where the enemies located under our fire control, and all measures are being taken to knock the enemy out of there, he said.

This after days of Russian soldiers posting videos of them raising flags inside the town. Ukraine's official statements as Russian footage showed a continued advance, showing a distance from reality, common when you're trying to win a war, but uncommonly now angering, normally loyal, Ukrainian bloggers. So, Ukraine's top military commander was forced to set a bleak record straight, saying the front lines had escalated as Moscow has concentrated its efforts in several directions, creating a significant advantage in forces and in means.

He said the changing situation had led to an ambiguous understanding. Here is another case in point, Berdychiv, from which Ukraine was posting bullish videos of Russians being hit, just before their commander said they withdrawn Sunday. Across the Eastern Front, the news is bleak, the change since the fall of Avdiivka 10 weeks ago stark on this Ukrainian blogger's map, Russia making its most concerted, widespread and consistent advances, perhaps since the invasion.

This is Zelensky's problem to keep now as he bolsters morale in towns and the Russian crosshairs. He has the money and so soon the weapons and the less blame he can shift for failure.

We are cooperating with our partners at all levels, he said to achieve the level of efficiency and assistance that is needed, not only to maintain our positions, but also to disrupt Russia's war plans. We're still waiting for the suppliers that have been promised to Ukraine. But more is likely coming, where you just saw Zelenskyy visit, this is what is left of Chasiv Yar. Yet another town, Russia has turned into this smoldering ruin here within (INAUDIBLE) munitions in the name of liberating and demilitarizing Ukraine.

Nick Payton Walsh, CNN, London.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

CHURCH: Cedric Leighton is a CNN military analyst and retired U.S. Air Force colonel. He joins me now from Orlando, Florida. Thank you so much for joining us.

CEDRIC LEIGHTON, CNN MILITARY ANALYST: Rosemary, it's my pleasure. Thank you so much for having me.

CHURCH: So, with Ukraine set to receive this additional military aid from the U.S., how likely is it the war-torn nation can reverse Russian gains along the eastern and southern fronts, or is this too little too late?

LEIGHTON: Well, there are going to be several factors. It really depends on how quickly the aid gets to Ukraine and how quickly the Ukrainians can actually incorporate it into their battlefield tactics, and use it. Use the weapon systems such as the ATACOMs, potentially even F-16s, and other weapon systems that could help them achieve a very least destabilization of the front lines. But in the most optimistic scenario for the Ukrainians, they might be able to roll back the Russian gains of recent months.

Those Russian gains are fairly limited, actually, but it's going to be a lot more difficult for the Ukrainians to take control of the areas that the Russians have occupied for a long time, especially those areas in the Donbas that the Russians have occupied since 2014. CHURCH: In the end, do you think Ukraine can win this war and how would you define a Ukrainian victory?

LEIGHTON: I think we need to have a redefinition of terms when it comes to victory for the Ukrainians. I think it has to basically rely on the capability of the Ukrainians to maintain an independent and viable country that is not beholden to the Russians, that is basically aligned with the West. That may mean that because of the military situation and the lateness of the aid that the Ukrainians are going to be getting, that might mean that the Russians will continue to occupy some Ukrainian territory, even though that's unacceptable to the West and certainly to the Ukrainians.

[02:25:07]

But it's better to do that than it is to lose the country completely. And that is going to, I think, be one of the key things that the Ukrainians have to consider as they move forward. Part of the problem, of course, is the huge disparity in population between the two countries, much to Russia's advantage. And the other thing, of course, is that the military strength of the Russians, at least in terms of sheer numbers, is a lot higher than the Ukrainians.

Although that gap is now considerably, since the Ukrainians have drafted a whole bunch of people into their military.

CHURCH: Politico is reporting that the Biden administration is not fully convinced Ukraine can win this war, despite getting this additional aid. What's your reaction to that assessment?

LEIGHTON: Well, I think it's, again, it has to do, Rosemary, with the definition of the terms. I think that the Ukrainians can certainly fight this war to a fairly advantageous position, but they have to be careful, and they have to incorporate the right kind of tactics and the right kind of weapons systems to match what their goals are. Obviously, President Zelenskyy, at least will publicly say that he wants to basically rid Ukraine of Russian soldiers and that is a laudable goal, that's something that could perhaps eventually be achieved.

But it may not be achieved on the battlefield. I think the idea that the Ukrainians can't win this war is wrong, but they may not win it in the traditional sense of that, where there is an actual retaking of territory or a movement like we saw in 2022 with the Ukrainian counter-offensive, where the -- where the Ukrainians come in and take past areas of territory or retake last areas of territory from the Russians.

That might be unrealistic, given the way in which the Russians have been able to strengthen their defensive lines, but the Ukrainians certainly have the capacity with new tactics and with some new weapons systems to actually make some gains or to very least stabilize the front line.

CHURCH: Colonel Cedric Leighton, always a pleasure to have you with us. Many thanks. LEIGHTON: You know, you bet Rosemary, always a pleasure to be with you.

CHURCH: The Duchess of Edinburgh has just visited Ukraine. The first time a British royal has visited the country since Russia's full-scale invasion. Buckingham Palace says Sophie, the wife of King Charles' youngest brother, traveled to Ukraine to show solidarity with survivors of wartime sexual violence and torture. The Duchess met with Ukraine's president and first lady in Kyiv to discuss support for survivors and to talk about the role of women in Ukraine's recovery.

The Duchess also traveled to Bucha, a suburb where hundreds of civilians were killed during a month-long Russian occupation early in the war. And we'll be right back.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[02:30:50]

CHURCH: Welcome back, everyone. The pro-Palestinian protests that have been rocking U.S. college campuses are also spreading to schools around the world. In Paris, police say they cleared dozens of demonstrators from the courtyard of Sorbonne University on Monday, quickly and without incident. The school says fewer than 50 protesters had set up tents, one student claims the protesters were forcibly removed.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: We simply came to demonstrate. We set up tents and the police arrived about 40 to 45 minutes ago to forcibly remove us from the courtyard. There were some altercations; it was quite violent. Some people were dragged on the ground, others were simply forced out by been taken by the arms. Then at the exit of the Sorbonne, there was identity check and now, we are being prevented from leaving the demonstration.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

CHURCH: It is not just Europe. Students at Iran's Tehran University have also come out in support of the pro-Palestinian protests happening across U.S. college campuses. As CNN's Fred Pleitgen reports, Iran has its own history of cracking down on protesters in the past.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

FREDERIK PLEITGEN, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT (voice- over): Pro-Palestinian protesters at U.S. colleges getting vocal support from Iran, conservative students and faculty at Tehran University staging a demo this weekend, chanting "Death to America and Death to Israel," saying they stand with those occupying U.S. universities.

We not only support them, we are one united voice, this woman says. We are like organs of the same body. UNIDENTIFIED MALE: American students also came out. It is great. We didn't that they would come out. But the fact that they came out shows that we are fighting for the same thing.

PLEITGEN (voice-over): This movement by American students shows that freedom seeking and support of the oppressed has expanded all over the world, this man says.

The Biden Administration ripped into Iran over its crackdown of protests that swept the country in the fall of 2022 after the death in police custody of Mahsa Amini, he was accused of breaking the country's strict hijab rules.

ANTONY BLINKEN, UNITED STATES SECRETARY OF STATE: The international community has come together to condemn and confront Iran's brutal crackdown and we'll continue to act in support of the right of the Iranian people to speak out for their fundamental freedoms.

PLEITGEN (voice-over): But now, Iran says the U.S.' support of Israel's operation in Gaza killing tens of thousands of Palestinians and police action against some of those occupying campuses is tarnishing America's own reputation.

PLEITGEN: Iran's leadership has been extremely vocal about the pro- Palestinian protests going on, on some U.S. campuses. They say the arrests that have been seen undermine America's role as a leading supporter both of civil rights and of free speech.

PLEITGEN (voice-over): For decades, Iran has been the U.S. and Israel's strongest adversary in the Middle East, Iran and Israel recently trading direct military blows for the first time. I went to a press conference of the Iranian foreign ministry, the spokesman saying, Tehran believes global opinion is now shifting their way.

NASSER KANAANI, IRANIAN FOREIGN MINISTRY SPOKESPERSON: Public opinion of the world and free thinkers of the world will not tolerate this genocide and their loud voice won't be silenced, he said. And through police actions and violent crackdown policies, they cannot silence the voice of those that protest against this crime and genocide.

PLEITGEN (voice-over): Tehran ripping into the U.S. as the protesters on American campuses demand schools divest from Israel and want the Biden Administration to pressure Israel to stop its attacks.

Fred Pleitgen, CNN, Tehran.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

CHURCH: And we'll be right back.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[12:36:45]

CHURCH: All right, we do want to get back to New York and Columbia University. We are hearing that protesters have now taken over one of the main campus buildings called Hamilton Hall. John Towfighi is a Columbia student and CNN freelancer, and joined us now from New York. John, hopefully you can hear me OK. So, what are students hoping to achieve by barricading themselves inside this historically symbolic building?

Can you hear me there, John?

JOHN TOWFIGHI, CNN FREELANCER AND COLUMBIA STUDENT: I can hear you. Can you hear me?

CHURCH: Yes, I can. So, talk to take us, take us through -- I know you've provided us with some video. If you could take us through that and explain what these students are trying to achieve and what you have on the video?

TOWFIGHI: Yes, of course. So on Columbia University main campus -- let me reiterate -- that's inside the gates. So this is only students and Columbia affiliates. They have moved from the encampment that was on the west lawn at the university, which has been there for about 12 days. And the student protesters have now moved to this building called Hamilton Hall.

Hamilton Hall is the undergraduate hub for Columbia University. It is where the Dean of Columbia College has his office and where many Columbia students have their classes. As you might be able to hear on the call right now, Columbia students have entirely barricaded the entrance to Hamilton Hall and have been (inaudible) occupied the building. Now, students were told today that if they continue to be a part of the protest, they will be suspended. So let me make clear that all student support of this occupation of Hamilton Hall are potentially considering suspension.

But they are riled up. They are energetic. And there are hundreds of students occupying the Hall right now.

CHURCH: Yes. And of course, this is a particularly symbolic building, isn't it? There is a reason why they have occupied this particular building and it has certainly got the attention of administrators there.

TOWFIGHI: Yeah. And I am very glad you (inaudible) on that. Indeed, this is a very symbolic building for Columbia University. Now, in 1968, students at Columbia University in protest of university's ties to the Vietnam War and the university's expansion into the Harlem neighborhood occupied this exact building on university campus, Hamilton Hall.

And then again, in the 1980s, students protesting for the university to divest from companies invested in South Africa similarly occupied this building. So, the undergraduate students are very aware of the legacy they are fulfilling, and are actively occupying Hamilton Hall to try and revive some of the (inaudible) and legacy associated with the (inaudible).

CHURCH: And John, as you mentioned, these students have accepted the likely outcome of being suspended from university. How many students are we talking about here?

TOWFIGHI: So, about 10:00 a.m. today, the university dropped some pamphlets amongst the student protesters, telling them if they did not disband by 2:00 p.m., they would face immediate interim suspension by the university.

[02:40:00]

TOWFIGHI: Now, that includes not graduating if you are a current senior. Nonetheless, I can confirm on the scene right now at Columbia University, there are at least 200 students -- I repeat, at least 200 students, who are organizing and barricading themselves outside of Hamilton Hall. The specific number of students inside the building is unclear, but I would estimate about a couple dozen has entered the building.

CHURCH: And John, we know at this juncture that negotiations between administrators and students have broken down. So, what is this going to do for the relationship between students and administrators?

TOWFIGHI: That's a great point. So, the Columbia University administration clarified with the community on Friday evening, last Friday evening, that it would be "counterproductive to bring in the New York Police Department." So the current standing, it seems that the university will not be calling in any immediate law enforcement but are rather sticking to their word and that they will be fervently suspending any student still associated with the protest movement.

So, I can say, currently, pass 2:00 a.m. in the morning at Columbia, the hundreds of students that are applying the building are risking immediate suspension from the university, but are not -- and I repeat, are not under any immediate threat of law enforcement removal.

CHURCH: And John, just explain to us what suspension means exactly at Columbia University. What would this mean in terms of the future for these students?

TOWFIGHI: So, the student protesters comprise of undergraduate and graduate students. So these are students who are -- some of them are on a four-year undergraduate degree. Some of them are on a two-year master's degree. And the university has told every student, no matter your standing, if you are still affiliated with the protest after 2:00 p.m., you will immediately be declined any access to university academic or residential halls. And if you are intending to graduate in May 2024, in the upcoming month, you will be denied graduation.

Now, any students who abide by the university policy and agreed to leave the protest will be put on academic probation until June 2025, so that's about one year where if they abide by university policy, there will be safe. Any students who do not agree to follow by university policy and face probation are on this effective interim suspension, which as I said, means losing all access university buildings and risking not graduating this May.

CHURCH: All right. We've been talking to John Towfighi. He is a Columbia student, also a CNN freelancer. He was on the line there and sharing his video with us, of course, report there that we think maybe a couple of dozen students at Columbia have barricaded themselves inside that historically symbolic building, Hamilton Hall at Columbia University. And we'll continue to follow this. They, of course, are under threat of suspension now, as a result.

We will take you to "World Sport" now and we'll be back at the top of the hour with more "World News." Stay with us.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[02:45:00]

(WORLD SPORT)