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Anderson Cooper 360 Degrees

Harris And Walz Take Battleground Tour To Arizona, New York Times: Trump Claims He Has Records Of Helicopter Trip With Mayor Brown, Threatens To Sue; Trump Claims He "Went Down" In Helicopter "Emergency Landing" With Former San Francisco Mayor, Who Says It Never Happened; Brazilian Plane Crash Kills 61; GOP Nominee To Run ALL NC Schools Advocated Pro-Trump Military Coup In January 6 Video. Aired: 8-9p ET

Aired August 09, 2024 - 20:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

WILL RIPLEY: CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: They seem to have a very friendly rapport, was actually kind of a heartwarming moment to see them chit-chatting and interacting and showing good sportsmanship. This extreme sensitivity, Erica, seems to come from a much higher level. The fact that China with its dozens of gold medals cannot stand to broadcast tiny Taiwan's winning just one gold medal in these Paris Games.

This is the second time in a row that Taiwan has beat China in the badminton men's doubles. They also won in Tokyo, so that might have something to do with all of this, Erica, but certainly those two players got a hero's welcome when they came back here to Taipei.

ERICA HILL, CNN HOST: Yes, I mean, it is really something. Great story, Will. Appreciate it as always, thank you.

And thanks to all of you for joining us tonight. AC360 starts right now.

[20:00:40]

JOHN BERMAN, CNN HOST: Tonight on 360: Kamala Harris campaigning in a swing state, Donald Trump in the polar opposite, why he is where he is this evening and where each campaign stands in getting its message out.

Also, this may keep you up at night, CNN's Donie O'Sullivan on Mike Lindell and how his pillows are plumping up his efforts to peddle conspiracy election theories.

And later, all we are learning about what may have caused the deadly plunge that sent 61 people spiraling to their death.

Good evening, everyone. John Berman here, in for Anderson.

I want you to look at this, the scene in Glendale, Arizona tonight. That is Arizona Senator Mark Kelly speaking right now at a very big rally for Vice President Kamala Harris and her new running mate, Tim Walz. Very shortly, they each will be speaking. Mark Kelly, of course, was on the very, very shortlist to be her running mate. But Tim Walz instead, is that man. And again, he will be speaking shortly. Arizona, a swing state. It is also one of several Sunbelt states which seem to be slipping out of reach when President Biden led the ticket.

Harris and Walz are there trying to reverse that trend. This is new video of them at a campaign office in Phoenix a little earlier today. Arizona is also a border state and this morning, the campaign released a border-centric add.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

NARRATOR (voice over): As a border state prosecutor, she took on drug cartels and jailed gang members for smuggling weapons and drugs across the border. As vice president she backed the toughest border control bill in decades. And as president she will hire thousands more border agents and crack down on fentanyl and human trafficking.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BERMAN: The former president, you will recall, has sought to tie Harris to what he says is the administration's border policy failures. As for Trump, he is not far away from the Idaho and Wyoming borders in Bozeman, Montana. This is a live look at the site where he will be -- thing is neither Idaho nor Wyoming, nor Montana are swing states, all three are reliably red. So, why hold a rally at all tonight in Bozeman?

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DONALD TRUMP (R), FORMER PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: I'm here to do some fundraisers and most importantly, to support Tim Sheehy, who is running for the US Senate. And we think he's going to do really well. We are going to have a rally and it'll be a lot of fun and we're leading in all of the polls now, just about every poll has us leading. They found out that this is a phony that we are running against.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BERMAN: So, the Trump event is at ten local time. The Harris-Walz event in Arizona, minutes away.

CNN's Eva McKend is there. What is the message in Arizona tonight, Eva?

EVA MCKEND, CNN NATIONAL POLITICS CORRESPONDENT: John, I'm going to get to that in just a minute. But I have to acknowledge what is going on here.

This arena is packed, completely, completely packed, filled to the brim here. You have people with so much energy and enthusiasm. Speaking to voters here, they feel a renewed sense of hope in Arizona. They think it's possible for this state to turn blue in this election and they weren't feeling that just a few weeks ago.

Take a listen to what I'm hearing.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

TRACY PERRINE, ARIZONA VOTER: I want to keep saying this, going out of my head from Tom Hank's "A League of Their Own" the -- 'We're going to win. We're going to win.'

MCKEND: Exactly.

PERRINE: I mean, that to me, you know cocky but I'm optimistic.

SHERI COLLINS, ARIZONA VOTER: I've always been a supporter of -- you know, she's a woman, and she's Black. And she'll be the first president candidate that I think who will win. And like I said, I am all about people advocate and equal women who have joy.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

MCKEND: And John, something else that I have noticed is the rich diversity in this crowd. You have Latino voters. You have a leader from Indian nation that spoke, White voters, young voters, all key parts of the Democratic coalition.

As for Vice President Harris, she is expected to elevate reproductive rights tonight. And of course, she will have to address the issue of immigration in this border state. But how she does it, is what we are paying attention to.

She has a new ad out that you referenced where she really tries to characterize herself as tough on the border. She calls herself a border state prosecutor, a reference to her previous career.

But you've got a lot of immigrants' rights activists in this arena tonight, people who advocate for undocumented immigrants and a pathway for citizenship to them. So, how she strikes this balance, we're all waiting to see -- John.

[20:05:29]

BERMAN: Eva McKend for us in Arizona, as we keep an eye on that event there.

Joining us now, Mo Elleithee, former democratic national committee communications director; Ashley Etienne, who served as Vice President Harris' communications director; and Bryan Lanza, deputy communications director for the Trump campaign in 2016.

So, Ashley we're watching this event here in Arizona, which of course, is the Sun Belt. A lot of focus on the Rust Belt, Pennsylvania, Wisconsin, Michigan. What do you think the Sun Belt strategy should be for the Harris-Walz campaign?

ASHLEY ETIENNE, FORMER COMMUNICATIONS DIRECTOR FOR VP HARRIS: Well, the Harris campaigns internal polls show that about 70 percent of voters are still undecided. Majority of those voters are Black and Brown, younger voters. And so, that gives her a leg up in places like Arizona and Nevada. Those states have now come on the map now, as possibilities for her whereas, to your point earlier, they were not for Joe Biden, they weren't as promising for Joe Biden.

So right now, she's doing incredibly well among those particular groups. She's made up the difference that Joe Biden had lost with those groups. The other thing that I find very interesting is she's now starting to lean more aggressively into telling the story about where we are with the border. The fact that Republicans dropped the ball, that Biden and she took actions. And now, we're seeing a decrease in border crossings by 40 percent.

I would anticipate she's going to also start to talk about what she did on the Northern Triangle raising five to ten billion dollars to help address the root causes of migration, which has cut migration by 70 percent, the work that she did on the Northern Triangle. So, I think what she's going to try to do today is appeal to those voters, those Black and Brown voters.

She's going to lean into her success in record on the border and in addition to that, she's going to draw that contrast with Republicans and with Donald Trump and make the point that Donald Trump could care less about protecting the border. He wants to use it more as a tool.

BERMAN: Again, we have an eye on that rally right now, watching for Governor Walz and Vice President Harris, who will both be speaking soon.

Bryan, I want to ask you. I get that Donald Trump wants to elect Republicans to the Senate. He wants to help Tim Sheehy in Montana. But Montana is not a swing state, not even close at this point. Every day you're not in a swing state, is it a wasted day?

BRYAN LANZA, DEPUTY COMMUNICATIONS DIRECTOR FOR THE TRUMP CAMPAIGN IN 2016 :No, not if you're raising money and that's what he appears to be doing. Remember, there's a key component to this. It's also you have to raise money and he's in Montana raising money. He's making a fundraising pitch in the West and that's what you need to be doing.

You need to do in rallies in states that matter. You need to be doing rallies in states as part of your coalition, which the US Senate seats part of his coalition. But you also need to be investing time and raising money, which is what they're doing.

BERMAN: He isn't in a rally this week.

LANZA: What's that?

BERMAN: He isn't in a rally this week in a swing state.

LANZA: He has been raising money all week. I mean, if you if you look at the numbers that just came out there, they're hitting record numbers. I mean, he has been raising money. He's had JD sort of take the lead. That's why you have a VP nominee sort of take the lead on the attack dog and start hitting your Walz on his military record, start hitting Harris on her border record. I mean, I think the money that she's spending on the ad is laughable. You're talking about the least credible person on the border in the country is a Harris-Biden team, where they have very little credibility. So, I encourage you to do more ads like that because it's just literally flushing money down the toilet because nobody believes her spot.

I mean, she was the sanctuary DA out of San Francisco, where she let out criminals who went on to commit violent and crimes. I mean, so, trying to sell this narrative that she is the border prosecutor, it's just something that's just not going to sell.

BERMAN: So, Mo, you've been listening to this right now and obviously the Harris-Walz team knows what the border attack is. They hear it every day and they hear Bryan saying it right now. So, how should Harris on that stage tonight address it?

MO ELLEITHEE, FORMER COMMUNICATIONS DIRECTOR, DNC: I think Bryan is super smart. I couldn't disagree with him more on this one. This is one where it is Democrats need to be able to go on the offense when it comes to the border. Democrats need to be able to have an answer when it comes to the border to tackle it head on, which if were being frank, they haven't done in a very long time allowing Republicans to control the narrative.

She can go into a border state like Arizona, make the case like the one that you saw in that ad, make some of the points about her record, both as a prosecutor and as vice president, that Ashley was just making a few moments ago, and make the case that we could have done a whole lot better had Donald Trump not stopped a bipartisan border bill, the toughest bipartisan border bill we have seen in a very long time. She could make that case in a way, Democrats haven't been making in a while.

Now, do I think that Democrats will win on the issue as a result, maybe not. But if they can neutralize it even just by a couple of points, that delivers a state like Arizona and that's why it is important that she's doing what she's doing.

BERMAN: And Ashley, again, we have our eye right now on that stage and Tim Walz, the governor of Minnesota, will walk up there shortly we imagine. You can see his appeal in Minnesota and Wisconsin just over the border there, Michigan, maybe Pennsylvania as well. Does he have any connection you think that sells in the Sun Belt States?

ETIENNE: Oh, absolutely. I mean, I think the beauty of adding Tim Walz to the ticket is, he adds a layer and a depth to Vice President Harris. He compliments her in a lot of ways. He also brings to the table a deep understanding and sensitivity to the plight, the concerns of those in the very conservative parts of our country. So, you can take Tim Walz in suburban areas, rural areas, and he's going to play incredibly well.

I mean, I think the thing, the benefit that he brings to the table also is he sort of bridges that cultural divide that Democrats haven't yet been able to do. I mean, just the fact that he wears a 'camo' hat in and of itself, signals to people and creates this permission structure for disaffected Republicans, Independents, as well as Republicans that are trying to find a home to support Kamala Harris.

BERMAN: So, Mo, you do communications for your job for a very long time. Republicans are criticizing the vice president for not doing a sit-down interview, not doing a more fulsome press conference, she did answer about six questions yesterday to the press pool that's with her.

What's the plus minus on her doing much more media right now with sit down interview. Obviously, there are a lot of questions.

ELLEITHEE: Yes, she should. She should do some and she should do them soon. And I think she will, right? I mean, right now, she's going through this process where she's introducing herself and introducing her running mate and that makes a lot of sense in the world and is paying off for her.

But I think she and her team know that she's not going to be able to go that much longer without doing it and I think she will. But she is doing this. She is out there campaigning. She is out there pressing the flesh and she is out there delivering a message every day in contrast with the point you made earlier, John, right? Donald Trump ain't doing that.

Yes, he did a press conference yesterday and that press conference went way off the rails. A press conference that I think his team ought to probably think he shouldn't have done in retrospect, but he's not out there talking to voters. He's doing it in Montana tonight, first time this week. She's doing that and I think she will layer in the interviews pretty soon.

BERMAN: Bryan, I promise I'm going to give more questions to you after the break, but I'm going to lose Ashley here, so I want to ask one more question to you first, which is, we just learned that the vice president will do an event with President Biden next week. How much do you think we're going to see them together?

ETIENNE: I think you'll see them together quite a bit, but I think the strategy will be to break them, split them up and send President Biden into areas and parts of the country where he has great right resonance.

So I think that, it's going to be more effective to split them up, but they will do some events together. I'm excited to see him back on the campaign trail. I think the rest of the country and Democratic voters are going to be excited to see him. But it's going to be a more effective strategy to split them up.

BERMAN: Ashley, great to see you. thank you so much. Mo, been a long time, nice to see you as well. Bryan, don't go anywhere. I've got more for you.

I want your take on this story that Donald Trump told at his press conference and is now threatening to sue "The New York Times" about It revolves around to what he said was a scary helicopter ride with former San Francisco Mayor Willie Brown. The issue is Brown says, it never happened. We will hear from Mayor Brown himself next.

Also, the aviation disaster that sadly was all too real. A commuter airliner goes down in Brazil. What we are learning about the crash and the troubling echoes it has to a disaster involving a similar plane nearly 30 years ago.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[20:18:18]

BERMAN: So Donald Trump is now threatening to sue "The New York Times," at issue, they're reporting on this answer to a question at his press conference yesterday about this man, former San Francisco Mayor Willie Brown, a former mentor to Vice President Kamala Harris and someone she dated in the mid 90s.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

TRUMP: I know Willie Brown very well. In fact, I went down in a helicopter with him. We thought maybe this is the end, we were in a helicopter going to a certain location together and there was an emergency landing. This was not a pleasant landing and Willie was -- he was a little concerned.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BERMAN: So, "The Times" today reported there are just a few things wrong with this story. One, they say Willie Brown was not on the helicopter and two, it did not almost crash, it was this guy then California Governor Jerry Brown, who was on the helicopter says "The Times," which also reports that the former president was on that helicopter flight with the governor to inspect wildfire damage then Governor elect Gavin Newsom, who was also on board, told "The Times" that there was no emergency landing and Newsom said, if anyone was talking about the helicopter crashing, it was Donald Trump.

Well, late today, Trump called a "Times" reporter, claimed to have flight records to verify his story and shouted that he was "probably going to sue." Now, when asked however, to produce the flight records, he instead repeated the question back in what "The Times" Maggie Haberman describes as a sing-song voice mockingly is how she describes it. So, more to come on this.

Shortly before airtime, I spoke with Willie Brown.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

BERMAN: Mayor Brown, thank you so much for being with us this evening. Just to clear things up, have you ever been in a helicopter that made an emergency landing with Donald Trump?

[20:20:08]

WILLIE BROWN (D), FORMER SAN FRANCISCO MAYOR: No.

BERMAN: Have you ever been in a helicopter with Donald Trump? BROWN: No.

BERMAN: He is apparently, tonight, getting angry about all of this, calling "The New York Times" and berating them for their story on this, claiming, he says, "We have the flight records of the helicopter," and apparently said the helicopter landed in a field. You have no memory of anything like that ever happening?

BROWN: No.

BERMAN: What could he possibly be thinking about?

BROWN: I have no idea.

BERMAN: One of the things that "The New York Times" suggested is that there was a helicopter trip he took in 2018 with former Governor Jerry Brown and Governor-elect Gavin Newsom. So, Governor Jerry Brown, how often do you get confused with Jerry Brown?

BROWN: Not too often. We've known each other for many, many years simply because I was the only person that endorsed his candidacy when he first ran for governor back in the 70s.

I then ultimately, endorsed his candidacy again in early 2000s when he ran for governor after being the Mayor of Oakland, but I have never traveled anywhere with Jerry Brown or even though the good man that's running for the Republican nomination in any kind of a helicopter.

BERMAN: Another thing that Donald Trump said at this news conference was that you had said derogatory things about Vice President Kamala Harris to him in conversation. Have you ever had a conversation like that with Donald Trump?

BROWN: No, I have not, nor anybody else.

BERMAN: It sounds like at least according to you, this entire story, including the helicopter, the near-emergency landing in the conversation about now Vice President Kamala Harris, it just never happened.

BROWN: Never happened, period, and I think my memory is probably better than his.

BERMAN: He also, in this news conference, criticized the now vice president for her work as a district attorney and an attorney general in California, saying she ruined San Francisco. What do you say to those accusations?

BROWN: Obviously, he does not know anything about San Francisco. Certainly not to the extent that he would say that a district attorney or an attorney general could ruin San Francisco. We are a very lovely city

And then when he references the person who is now the vice president, you've got to know that she served California extremely well. She defeated an incumbent district attorney in this city because the people loved her and she performed very well.

She ran for the attorney general when Jerry Brown, left that job, and she won it against an incumbent district attorney in Los Angeles County who had been there for a long time and he was another White guy. She's beaten two White guys.

And then of course, she got the job of the US senator from California. and at all times, she has been applauded, just as she is currently being applauded by people in this nation.

BERMAN: So obviously, you are -- over the last several decades have been a key ally by to Kamala Harris, especially in the early stages of her career. You had a personal relationship with her about 30 years ago, this is something that was brought up repeatedly in the right- wing media. Why do you think they're so focused on it? What implication do you think they are making and how do you respond to it?

BROWN: I just assume that as usual, the right-wing media is always trying to generate something negative about people, particularly people that look like Willie Brown and that have a color close to Willie Brown.

I, frankly think that the motivation has more to do with who the two parties are than almost anything else in the world.

BERMAN: Former San Francisco Mayor Willie Brown, thank you so much for joining us tonight.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

BERMAN: All right, Bryan Lanza is back with us, and joining us Anthony Scaramucci, former Trump White House communications director and author of "From Wall Street to the White House and Back: The Scaramucci Guide to Unbreakable Resilience."

So Anthony, what's going on here? Willie Brown says, this never happened -- never was in a helicopter that made an emergency landing with Donald Trump, was never even been in a helicopter with Donald Trump. What do you see here?

[20:25:10]

ANTHONY SCARAMUCCI, FORMER TRUMP WHITE HOUSE COMMUNICATIONS DIRECTOR: First of all, I want to blame Bryan for my White House career because if he didn't put me on your air during the campaign, I probably wouldn't have been a comms director, so, the 11 day-fiasco is his fault, I just want to be on the record for that.

LANZA: You're welcome

SCARAMUCCI: And then secondly -- thank you, Bryan.

I would say is that's totally Trump. He's in a reality distortion field. He's saying that because he knows there's a group of people that listen to that, John, and actually believe that. So even though you've ran this interview, and I believe everything that the distinguished mayor is saying, there's a lot of people out there. They're just not going to believe that they believe everything that comes out of Donald Trump's mouth and so he's in this reality distortion field and he's trying to suggest certain things about Vice President Harris that aren't true.

And so, it's going to be up to her team and their rapid response team to do the best they can to parry all of that. But he knows he's lying and Bryan actually knows that Donald Trump is lying because he lies. Every time his lips are moving he's lying. We all know that he's lying and it was a head-scratcher.

There was one day in the White House where we prepared something for him and the number was like 88 percent and he went into the Rose Garden end he said 96 percent and he comes back into the Oval Office, like, why did you say that that? No, oh, you know, it sounded better.

And that is Donald Trump. That is the person that you're dealing with. Now, if there are campaign people listening from the Harris campaign, pay attention. He's going to lie for the next 88 days and you have to be prepared for that and you have to not be astounded by it. You have to say, okay, that is part of the program when dealing with Donald Trump.

BERMAN: So, Bryan, first of all, I'm glad that we can have this reunion. I'm glad to be part of it tonight. Second of all, you were smiling a lot during what Anthony was saying there, why?

LANZA: Yes, I love his hair. It's good to see him, but yes, I'm listening.

Anthony's always entertaining. I'd love playing a role in getting Anthony out there and I thought he did a good job for 11 days. My bingo card had 13, but he couldn't hold on two more days, even hold on the weekend or he just barely held on for the weekend.

SCARAMUCCI: There's still time, Bryan, I may end up in the White House for another one or two days. It's possible.

LANZA: There you go, we'll get you back.

SCARAMUCCI: You never know. You never know, Bryan.

LANZA: But listen, I would say whether it is Willie Brown or Jerry Brown, here's what I know about the both of them. They're both leftist mayors from the Bay Area. So it's easy to confuse the both of them and so I'm not surprised that President Trump did that.

Oakland, listen, I'll teach you geography. Oakland and San Francisco are neighboring cities in the Bay Area and they're both leftist mayors from the Bay Area. So, you can try to push back, but it's not an effective way to push back on that one

Now, it's easy to confuse the two. But at the end of the day, this is why Donald Trump -- this is ultimately a loss for the president. As we are talking about this and we're not talking about inflation, we're not talking about immigration.

You know, Kamala Harris is in Arizona today and we're not talking more and more about how she failed the border, 15 million illegals have crossed the border under her tenureship, under her border czar title that even the media gave her. And we're not talking about that. We're talking about whether President Trump confused Willie Brown and Jerry Brown, like I said, both leftist mayors from the Bay Area and that conversation doesn't advance anything.

BERMAN: Raise your hand if you think that Donald Trump knows that Jerry Brown was Mayor of Oakland.

LANZA: Absolutely.

BERMAN: All right, so 50 percent of the people joining me now think that Donald Trump never knew that Jerry Brown was Mayor of Oakland.

I appreciate the argument you're making there, Bryan, but you don't think that he's telling the truth to Maggie Haberman, by the way, now, that he has flight records of flying with Willie Brown, because if you're right, then he's lying to Maggie now.

LANZA: Yes, listen, I'm just saying it's very easy to conflate two leftist mayors from the Bay Area. And that's probably what he's doing now, is it a lie? Yes, sometimes you're right, sometimes you're wrong. But as Van Jones eloquently says on this show, politicians are human too, and they make errors. Maybe that was an error, but what we do know is A, Jerry Brown is a leftist former mayor of the Bay Area; and B, Willie Brown is a former leftist mayor of the Bay Area; and C, Kamala Harris is a leftist DA from the Bay Area as well, and those is a bad recipe for American voters in Michigan, Wisconsin, and Pennsylvania.

BERMAN: What does this all tell you, Anthony right now? What does the whole news conference we saw yesterday tell you in the places -- in this news conference where --

SCARAMUCCI: Let me give you the Bryan Lanza-Donald Trump decoder ring. You don't have to buy the cereal box. I'm just going to hand it to you on the show.

LANZA: Crackerjacks. It's Crackerjacks.

SCARAMUCCI: What Bryan is basically saying, please, Donald Trump, start talking about the policies, start talking about the issues, otherwise, we're going to really drop hard in the polls and hard on the Polymarket and so forth, so that is what Bryan is trying to say to the president.

But the truth of the matter is, the president doesn't know what to do because he's up against somebody that he doesn't understand and he doesn't know how to parry her. They are trying racist tropes or blowing racist dog whistles. That's not working with the current electorate.

We've lost 21 or 20.2 million Baby Boomers since the 2016 election. So there's 40 million Generation X'ers that have risen into the voting rights and he is nervous. He doesn't know what to do. He looked very, very frustrated yesterday. He looks slightly frightened and he's desperate.

[20:30:25]

They seem to have a very friendly rapport, was actually kind of a heartwarming moment to see them chit-chatting and interacting and showing good sportsmanship.

In the meantime, Vice President Harris is running some great ads about the border. She's explaining how Donald Trump screwed us up at the border to the American people.

LANZA: Oh, Anthony.

SCARAMUCCI: He forced his colleagues in the Senate not to sign that bill.

LANZA: Anthony, let me --

SCARAMUCCI: And so Bryan is doing a good job trying to signal the President and I appreciate that.

BERMAN: All right, guys.

LANZA: Anthony, my friend. Let me --

BERMAN: Hang on, Bryan. I'm going to have to -- we actually -- I'm going to have to let you guys take this offline because clearly you have to work some --

LANZA: I'm calling you, Anthony --

BERMAN: You have to work some stuff out here and I'll let you do that. Have this conversation that clearly needs to be had.

SCARAMUCCI: Do not take the call tonight. I mean, wait 24 hours.

BERMAN: Bryan Lanza, Anthony Scaramucci, I appreciate you both being here. Thank you. Have a great weekend, both of you.

LANZA: Thank you.

BERMAN: At the top of the hour, stay tuned to The Source with Kaitlan Collins, former Democratic presidential candidate Pete Buttigieg joins us. That's at 9:00 Eastern right here.

And then coming up, we have new video of this horrendous airplane crash in Brazil today. Investigators on the ground looking for answers. We have a live report from Brazil. Plus, a former FAA safety inspector. That's next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[20:35:26] BERMAN: New video tonight of that Brazilian plane crash, which killed all 61 people on board. Thankfully, no one on the ground appears to have been killed. We do want to warn you, this new video is grim. More now from CNN's Brian Todd.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

BRIAN TODD, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): A terrifying spiral from the sky. A Brazilian passenger plane dropped straight down into a residential neighborhood.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: (Speaking Foreign Language).

TODD (voice-over): The woman who filmed this video told CNN, the plane crashed onto the property of her next door neighbors in the city of Vinhedo. Voepass Airlines Flight 2283 carried 61 people on board. Brazil's president delivered the news of the worst possible outcome.

LUIZ INACIO LULA DA SILVA, BRAZILIAN PRESIDENT (through translator): First, I have to be the bearer of very bad news. The plane has just crashed in the city of Vinhedo in Sao Paulo. And it appears they all died.

TODD (voice-over): According to the Flight Radar 24 website, the plane fell about 17,000 feet in just over one minute.

MARY SCHIAVO, CNN AVIATION ANALYST: At this point where we see it in the video where the plane is falling, the pilots would have had no ability to control that plane, so they could not have directed it away from houses or populated areas.

TODD (voice-over): The plane had taken off from Cascavel, Brazil for a flight lasting less than two hours and was only about eight minutes from landing at its destination near San Paolo. The exact cause of the crash is under investigation.

A man who missed the flight told a Brazilian news outlet that at least 10 people were waiting at the wrong gate and missed the flight before it took off.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE (through translator): At 9:40, the stop was closed. I'm group 10. When I got here, I waited. I argued with the airport worker. And that was it. He saved my life.

TODD (voice-over): As first responders swarmed the neighborhood, a witness described the impact.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE (through translator): When I heard the sound of the plane falling, I looked out my window at home and saw the moment it crashed. I ran out of the house to see where it fell. I saw it fell on the house of a couple of elderly people.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

TODD (on-camera): But according to one local city official, no one was killed in the residential area where the plane crashed. John? BERMAN: All right, Brian Todd, thank you so much for that.

Analysis now from Stevao Limana, our CNN Brasil Correspondent, and from CNN Safety Analyst and former FAA Safety Inspector David Soucie. Stevao, if you can hear me, describe what it's likenear the scene tonight. Is it still the case that no one on the ground was injured?

STEVAO LIMANA, CNN BRASIL CORRESPONDENT: Exactly. Good evening, John. I'm here in front of this residence where the plane crashed this afternoon here in Vinhedo, Sao Paulo, Brazil. The authorities didn't allow us to enter and see close the wreckage of the plane. But we are here seeing the work of police officers and to army.

What I can say is that I can feel, I can feel in the neighborhood some great sadness and patience on his faces. This is an accident that, according to the fire department, all the victims of this accident were in the plane. No one was hit in the ground. No one was hit in the house. All the information that we have is that 61 people dead in the plane.

BERMAN: All right, Stevao, thank you so much for that.

David, I know you often say that, quote, "planes don't just fall out of the sky," but this video that we've seen, it looks like this one sort of did. What do you know about this type of aircraft and what does the publicly available flight data tell you so far?

DAVID SOUCIE, CNN SAFETY ANALYST: Well, John, some of the things that you look at, this aircraft has sort of a checkered past, if you will, about icing and about some propeller things that have happened to it, about trying to get the propeller back to where it's supposed to be.

But the profile here, the flight profile and how it went up and then down and then ended up in this flat spin, it doesn't fit any of those scenarios perfectly. But the icing is really suspect to me because that would have added so much weight to the aircraft. The ice just continues to build in those -- on the wings and the propellers and everything and it just gets so heavy that it literally starts to fall and stall out of the air.

BERMAN: So it is --

SOUCIE: So I think that's where we're looking at this point.

BERMAN: It is winter in Brazil right now, obviously, in the Southern hemisphere.

SOUCIE: Yes.

BERMAN: Can you explain the difference between anti-icing and de-icing and why you think that may have caused a problem here?

[20:40:08]

SOUCIE: That's a great question and we've seen it before, but anti- icing, there's three phases of icing. There's no icing, there's potential icing, and then there's icing conditions. When you're in potential icing, you turn on anti-icing. And what that does is, as the droplets of water hit the front of the wing, it adds some heat and allows that water to continue over without icing. That's anti-icing.

Now, in de-icing, when you've actually started to accumulate ice, it's really critical that you watch that and look at the wing and see, you have to let it build up to a certain level, and then you turn de-icing on, and that inflates and cracks away that ice. If you turn the de- icing on too soon, then it inflates already in the ice builds on top of the inflation.

And then at that point, your de-icing doesn't work anymore at all. And it continues to build and build and build. And again, we don't know what caused this, but based on the flight profile and how it entered that flat spin, I think this is the most likely thing in my experience.

BERMAN: So obviously, this type of aircraft is not flown by major U.S. airlines. But are there takeaways that the U.S. carrier should take from that here?

SOUCIE: Yes, again, it's non-conclusive at this point, but icing has been something that needs to be and is trained from day one about airplanes -- just because it's 60 degrees on the ground does not mean it's that up in the air. And, in fact, in this day, it was way subzero at the 14,000 to 17,000 range and 100 percent humidity.

So you can imagine what that does when there's small droplets of air ready -- water ready to freeze and ready to grab onto whatever it can. So that's something that we study and make sure we make known. But this is a harsh, graphic tragic reminder of that if that is indeed what happened.

BERMAN: Well, David Soucie, I do really appreciate you helping us understand what we are seeing in Brazil tonight. Thank you so much for your time.

SOUCIE: Thanks, John.

BERMAN: Next, Mike Lindell serving up pillows and election denialism. Donie O'Sullivan spoke with him and joins us next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[20:46:22]

BERMAN: So Mike Lindell used to be just a guy famous for selling pillows. Today, he is the Trump ally turned 2020 election denialist who is now subsidizing other election denialists with his pillow money. He spoke to our Donie O'Sullivan for a new installment of Anderson's other show, "The Whole Story," which airs on Sunday.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

MIKE LINDELL, CEO OF MY PILLOW: Now, don't trust me on a golf cart. I once drove one right into a pond once. DONIE O'SULLIVAN, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): This is Mike Lindell, or as he's better known, the MyPillowGuy. He's also one of the country's best known election deniers.

LINDELL: $5. We have to secure elections.

O'SULLIVAN: But do you have evidence that was stolen?

LINDELL: In 2020?

O'SULLIVAN: Yes.

LINDELL: Absolutely. The evidence we have --

O'SULLIVAN (voice-over): Mike is still wrongly convinced that election machines were hacked and used to steal the 2020 election.

O'SULLIVAN: We got a big problem here where computers are in our election.

My battle is to get rid of the machines and get to paper ballots hand counted.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Our goal is to get you on these platforms. Getting views without getting taken down, and it's a constant, constant battle.

O'SULLIVAN (voice-over): When companies like Twitter and Facebook kicked users off their platforms in 2021 for spreading election misinformation, it spawned a whole new world of alternative so-called free speech platforms.

LINDELL: The number one thing is free speech platform, because it all centers around that. If you -- if I have a voice, I can pretty much guide anything, you know, anywhere.

O'SULLIVAN (voice-over): Mike set up his own social media and video streaming platform, Frank Speech.

LINDELL: -- a platform to reach out to all of you with MyPillow products and then also to keep our voice going and that's --

O'SULLIVAN (voice-over): It's got its own slate of TV shows.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Welcome to the broadcast. Glad you are with us.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: And in November, they're going to steal the election.

O'SULLIVAN (voice-over): And now it's just one part of a growing universe of online MAGA media pushing election lies.

LINDELL: Here's my original invention.

O'SULLIVAN (voice-over): Mike is an American success story. He went from crack addict to CEO. LINDELL: That picture there is where the drug dealers did an intervention on me in 2008.

O'SULLIVAN: You're a drug dealer --

LINDELL: It did an intervention.

O'SULLIVAN (voice-over): But his insistence on promoting and pursuing election conspiracy theories has cost him.

O'SULLIVAN: And the box stores and stuff kicked you out after January --

LINDELL: January 9th. The one that bothered me the most was Costco, because 90 some people lost their jobs because of Costco.

O'SULLIVAN: But do you realize what you're doing when it comes to elections? It risks all of this, right? Like --

LINDELL: The world has risked all of that, but I can't risk our country. I won't back down.

O'SULLIVAN: There's no moment where you say, you know what, I should just go back, focus on pillows.

LINDELL: Never, never, never. I will never look back. I can't unsee what I seen and I can't unknow what I know.

O'SULLIVAN (voice-over): And that's where the pillows come back in.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: So I can take the loft.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Go to mypillow.com and use promo code Trump.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Thank God for my pillow.

O'SULLIVAN (voice-over): MAGA influencers everywhere are pushing Mike's pillow codes as they spread their conspiracy theories. For every pillow they help sell, they get a cut of the cash.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I absolutely love Mike.

O'SULLIVAN (voice-over): But Mike isn't the only one selling something. A whole economy has popped up around the MAGA universe, from Patriot phones to Patriot steaks.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Mike Lindell.

LINDELL: As we know, we all need the best sleep of our lives during these attacks and this time ran.

O'SULLIVAN (voice-over): Mike seems to genuinely believe the election conspiracy theories that he is peddling, but the misinformation he is spreading is undermining trust in American elections.

LINDELL: I'm passionate about it because I -- if you knew what I knew, you wouldn't stop either.

O'SULLIVAN: I know. I think you mean well.

LINDELL: Yes.

O'SULLIVAN: But I think what you're doing is probably pretty dangerous.

LINDELL: OK. I don't agree with that.

O'SULLIVAN: I know.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

[20:50:02]

BERMAN: And Senior Correspondent Donie O'Sullivan is with us. First of all, you look very comfortable in a pillow factory, I have to say. Second, this MAGA product media --

O'SULLIVAN (on-camera): Yes.

BERMAN: -- universe that you reported on there, how big is it?

O'SULLIVAN (on-camera): Yes, there's this MAGA misinformation industrial complex basically happening. It is so, so vast. And, you know, we mentioned in that piece, you go back to January 6, '21, that's when the day after, of course, the social media platforms finally cracked down on a lot of the election conspiracy theories. That's when they kicked Trump off and everybody else.

And it just really spawned this whole new social media universe, right, including, of course, Truth Social. And that is really where a lot of the influencers, if you want to call them that that you saw on that piece there are thriving, right? These platforms really before, anytime somebody tried to launch, you know, a right wing or so-called free speech platform didn't really take off, but it really has since 2021.

And you saw, as part of it there that pillow codes are a big part of it, and, you saw just the critical role Mike plays in it. I do think Mike, you know, there's a lot of people in this who I think are, don't believe the BS they're pushing, but I think Mike seems to genuinely believe what he's pushing, but of course it doesn't make it any less dangerous.

BERMAN: It's something to see all those faces there that he's supporting Rudy Giuliani, among others, being funded by pillows.

O'SULLIVAN (on-camera): My Pillows.

BERMAN: Donie, thank you very much.

O'SULLIVAN (on-camera): Sleep well, John.

BERMAN: Again, you can watch the full report on The Whole Story with Anderson Cooper, that's Sunday night at 8:00 p.m. Eastern here on CNN.

And still to come, new questions for the Republican nominee to run North Carolina's public schools who was last in the headlines for calling for the execution of Democrats, including former President Obama.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[20:55:55]

BERMAN: Tonight, a striking new report from CNN's KFile and it once again involves Michelle Morrow, the Republican nominee to run North Carolina's K through 12 public schools. KFile has now uncovered comments she made on video after attending the January 6th riot at the U.S. Capitol. Those details in just a moment.

First, a reminder, prior to this, CNN tried to get answers from Morrow on comments she made online calling for violence against Democrats. This is CNN's Shimon Prokupecz back in March.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SHIMON PROKUPECZ, CNN CRIME AND JUSTICE CORRESPONDENT: Do you still stand by your comments about former President Barack Obama and that he should be executed, calling for the death of other presidents? Do you stand by that? Do you stand by those comments?

MICHELLE MORROW (R), NOMINEE FOR NC SUPT. OF PUBLIC INSTRUCTION: Have a good night.

PROKUPECZ: Do you stand by what you've said about the public education system and that it needs to be destroyed?

MORROW: No comment.

PROKUPECZ: Do you stand by that?

MORROW: No comment.

PROKUPECZ: Do you understand the concern that people have --

PROKUPECZ: No comment.

PROKUPECZ: -- with this nomination that you now have?

MORROW: I have a question.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BERMAN: So a whole lot of no comment there. She obviously did not want to answer Shimon's questions.

With me now is Andrew Kaczynski, the KFile senior editor who has the details on this new item uncovered on Morrow tied to January 6. So Andrew, what have you learned here? ANDREW KACZYNSKI, CNN KFILE SENIOR EDITOR: So Marrow was at January 6th, first at that rally, where then she proceeded to the Capitol where she was in a restricted area that had been cordoned off by police. Now, in these couple of images I want people to look at, she -- that were from videos that we uncovered -- she was there as rioters were breaking into the building.

Now, there's no evidence that Marrow engaged in any violence herself, her went into the building. But later that night in her hotel, she went on a live stream and essentially called for President Trump to institute a military coup. Take a listen to those comments.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

MARROW: President Trump is still president until the 20th. So he can still invoke the executive order against voter fraud. And now he has every player that participated in his sites, and they can all be arrested for treason. And if the police won't do it, and the Department of Justice won't do it, then he will have to enact the Insurrection Act.

In which case, the Insurrection Act completely puts the Constitution to the side, and says, now, the military rules all. OK? And let me tell you, President Trump, President Trump has the military on his side because the military and many leaders in the military who love this nation and who love our constitution and who have put their life on the line to protect the freedoms of people in the United States that they will never meet.

They chose President Trump to be their candidate. So as long as he invokes, the Insurrection Act before the inauguration, then he's going to be re-inaugurated. He's going to be put back in.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

KACZYNSKI: So the constitutional scholars that we spoke to, by the way, also said what she said there was complete nonsense, but I think it's also important to remember that this is a person who's going to be controlling an 11 billion budget in the state if she wins that race and education priorities for the state's 1.3 million children.

BERMAN: School budget.

KACZYNSKI: 1.3 million, yes.

BERMAN: 1.3 million for kids. Were there ever any consequences for her calls for violence against Democrats?

KACZYNSKI: State party is supporting her, Mark Robinson, a gubernatorial nominee at the top of the ticket. He's also supporting her. And this is someone who not just called for the execution of Obama, but a lot of prominent Democrats. North Carolina governor, Roy Cooper, Ilhan Omar Andrew Cuomo, Hillary Clinton, Chuck Schumer, Anthony Fauci, Bill Gates, and Barack Obama, who she even said, quote, "I want to see a pay per view of him in front of a firing squad." We did reach out to her campaign. We asked about this stuff and what she said and they said -- they didn't respond to it, but they said what North Carolina voters are concerned about is the education of our children.

BERMAN: It's pretty extraordinary video and a pretty extraordinary record there. Andrew Kaczynski, thank you so much for your reporting. Everyone to the KFile, great work on this. Have a great weekend.

The news continues. So we're going to hand it over to Kaitlan Collins, The Source, starts right now.