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Anderson Cooper 360 Degrees
Trump Says He Won't Participate in Another Debate; Laura Loomer, CNN's Alleged Adviser of Trump. Trump Backs Away From Another Debate As Questions Grow About The Company He Keeps; Harris Kickstarts Swing-State Tour In North Carolina; "Stopping The Steal" HBO Doc On 2020 Election Airs Sept. 17th; Meet The Gen Z Creators Making TikToks In Support Of Trump And Harris. Aired 8-9p ET
Aired September 12, 2024 - 20:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
ERIN BURNETT, CNN HOST: ...you look at the numbers, to do another debate or not?
HARRY ENTEN, CNN SENIOR DATA REPORTER: Well, Republican voters believe that he in fact should do another debate. Because perhaps they feel like, he can't do particularly worse than he did in that debate against Kamala Harris.
Interestingly enough, Democrats actually do not another debate, just 35 percent want another debate. That of course makes sense as well because I think a lot of those Democrats feel like, hey, Kamala Harris beat Donald Trump. Let's run off the field right now.
BURNETT: That was I was saying to Axelrod, why not just take your chips and go. And he said, well, sometimes you really want to make sure you got the win.
All right, thank you, Harry Enten.
ENTEN: Thank you.
BURNETT: And thanks so much to all of you for joining us. It's time now as always for Anderson.
[20:00:38]
ANDERSON COOPER, CNN HOST, "ANDERSON COOPER: 360": Tonight on 360, Donald Trump says, it's one and run, still claiming victory in his debate with Vice President Harris. He's now backing away from another.
Also tonight, why is the former president traveling around and listening to conspiracy promoter whose latest moves is attacking the vice president's ethnic background, keeping them honest.
And later, how lucrative the vice president's campaign says the debate was for them, and how she's trying to turn her performance into votes in one battleground state.
Good evening, thanks for joining us just two days after debate, most observers from across the political spectrum said Donald Trump lost, the former president said, no, to another.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DONALD TRUMP (R) FORMER PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: Because we've done two debates and because they were successful, there will be no third debate. It's too late anyway, the voting has already begun.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COOPER: Both he and Vice President Harris are on multi-state campaign swings today. He also complained about the ABC News moderators again.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TRUMP: Those two people should be fired as an anchor. A couple of more years they'll be fired.
And she was nasty, she looked at me with hatred in her eyes.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COOPER: Loves the word nasty, that would be ABC's Linsey Davis, he's talking about and if attacking the moderators after losing a debate is a go-to move for him so is attacking women and calling stupid or nasty.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TRUMP: He was by far the nastiest to Joe Biden. There was nobody nastier than her.
She was extraordinarily nasty to Kavanaugh. She was nasty to a level that was just a horrible thing. She was probably nastier than even Pocahontas.
By the racist attorney general of New York state Letitia "Peekaboo" James.
In the wings, they've got a local racist Democrat district attorney in Atlanta.
How about low IQ Maxine Waters.
Omarosa is obviously the ultimate villain and the nastiest.
I think it's very nasty question when you ask a continue in a very hostile, nasty tone.
What a stupid question. But I watch you a lot. You ask a lot of stupid questions.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COOPER: By the way, that was CNN's Abby Phillip, he's talking to there, that last soundbite.
As for Vice President Harris and her take on all this. Here's what she said today in Charlotte, North Carolina.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
KAMALA HARRIS (D) VICE PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: Two nights ago, Donald Trump and I had our first debate and I believe we owe it to the voters to have another debate. Because this election and what is at stake could not be more important.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COOPER: Her campaign also weighed in with a bit of Trump whispering, a senior adviser tells us, "He changes his position every day, I predict there will be another".
The Harris campaign is also claiming a big fundraising haul telling "The New York Times" they raised $47 million in the 24 hours following Tuesday's debate.
The vice president also picked up another Republican endorsement today, this one from Alberto Gonzalez, the attorney general in the George W. Bush administration, who called the former president, "perhaps the most serious threat to the rule of law in a generation" in a POLITICO op-ed today.
As for the former president's choice of associates, he is in the spotlight on two fronts tonight. There's right-wing agitator, Laura Loomer, who he has been traveling with to the debate and yesterday to 9/11 remembrances. She's been criticized by Congresswoman Marjorie Taylor Greene of all people for a racist tweet about the vice president's Indian heritage. We will have more on that coming up.
There's also new reporting from national public radio on this guy. His name is Timothy Hale-Cusanelli, who's an ally and yes, federal prosecutors describe him as a White supremacists and if the mustache didn't lead you to this conclusion, a Nazi sympathizer.
He was convicted of participating in the January 6th attack on the Capitol. Also, according to NPR, he has twice spoken at the former president's Bedminster Golf Club. Again, according to NPR, one was a fundraiser for group that supports Capitol riot defendants. This is a video message from the former president that played at the event.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TRUMP: I just want to tell you that we're with you and our hearts are with you, my soul is with you. We are with you and it's going to work out.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COOPER: According again, to NPR's report, this is one of the people, the former president was referring to. Not for the first time, this campaign, a lot to get to.
[20:05:08]
CNN's Kristen Holmes starts us off. She's in Southern California where the former president is attending a fundraiser tonight.
So what is the former president saying about not doing another debate with Vice President Harris? He's still claiming he won the last one.
KRISTEN HOLMES, CNN NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Yes, today was really a re-litigation of the entire debate, heard him talking about it for roughly 30 minutes going through almost line by line, things he said, things the moderator said, things Kamala Harris said, obviously, with a Trump spin. And now, in front of a Trump supportive audience. So getting the cheers, getting the laugh lines that he wanted during the debate. Now, in this rally form.
Now, Donald Trump went on to say, as you noted, that he had won the debate, that he had a monumental victory even said that polls show that he had won with women and independents, as we have shown CNN polling did not reflect that and most polling that we have seen did not reflect that and most conversations that we have had with Republican operatives, with Republican allies of Donald Trump's did also not reflect that.
They were talking about a couple of conservative straw polls from conservative networks that said that Donald Trump won the debate. He also went on to say, that the moderators were unfair. He talked about that at length. And then essentially said that he won, so Kamala Harris wanted that second debate, that's why he wouldn't be doing yet another debate.
I cannot stress enough to how many Republicans that I've talked to. These are people who want Donald Trump to win in November, who have hold me. They were disappointed in Donald Trump's performance on that stage.
I even spoke to a number of advisers of his who said that they were nervous during the debate. They were nervous while he was speaking during the debate. They were concerned what it was going to look like. Now, they have since said they don't believe it's going to move the needle that much, but clearly tonight, Donald Trump reacting to that.
We'll see him tomorrow. He's giving press remarks just outside of LA, where his golf club is, and we will be there hopefully able to get some questions in about not just the debate, but also as you mentioned, him traveling with Laura Loomer.
COOPER: All right. Kristen Holmes. Thanks. Joining us now, former Virginia Republican Congressman Scott Taylor. And Natasha Alford, senior correspondent with "The Grio", and Anthony Scaramucci, who served for exactly one Scaramucci 10 or 11 days depending on who's counting.
ANTHONY SCARAMUCCI, FORMER WHITE HOUSE COMMUNICATIONS DIRECTOR: It was 11.
COOPER: It was 11. I'm sorry it was 11 as the former president's White House communications director. He is now a Harris supporter. We should point out.
It's great to have you all here. Do you think he's actually not going to debate?
SCARAMUCCI: It's a hundred percent that he's going to debate --
COOPER: Really.
SCARAMUCCI: -- I will make that prediction here. He's a wrestler, you know, it is like a UFC thing. He's going to say he's not going to debate. He knows he lost the debate.
I was in that spin room when he arrived in that spin room, he went right the Sean Hannity's desk to tell everybody that he won the debate, but he lost the debate, he knows.
Anderson, he would have never showed up in the spin room if he had won that debate. And he --
COOPER: Generally, if a night goes well, you don't go to the spin room.
SCARAMUCCI: Of course. You don't do that and he knows he lost the debate and he knows he's debating her again, but he has to have a buildup. He thinks there's a negotiating chip. He's trying to show his macho flex and I said to you before the show started, I knew where he was in trouble at 6:57 PM, Tuesday night.
I was with Governor Newsom. I looked at Governor Newsome has said, he's in trouble because he's landing the plane at 6:57 PM for a nine o'clock show and he's not going to be ready. He's going to be unraveled.
COOPER: Whereas, Harris had been there for days.
SCARAMUCCI: Jack Kennedy in 1960 got there before. Richard Nixon got there the night before, I mean --
COOPER: Jack Kennedy has spent the whole day of that debate, in fact, in his hotel room, like looking at three by five cards, going over answers.
SCARAMUCCI: Yes and the vice president was there the day before. She looked well rested. She was very well-prepared. But he's macho man. He was probably playing the YMCA song "macho, macho man" as he was landing the plane.
COOPER: That's not a stretch, by the way -- he plays it everywhere.
Natasha, I mean, do you think there's -- do you think it makes sense for Harris to be pushing for another debate?
NATASHA ALFORD, THE GRIO SENIOR CORRESPONDENT: I think that she was exceptional, and I think it was to her benefit that she got to prove who she was, right. Everything Donald Trump said about her, she disproved. She was in command. She was smart, right? Despite all of those insults about her intelligence.
And so, I think she opened up a curiosity for folks who maybe were on the fence to say, okay, maybe actually I do need to get to know her a little bit more. Another debate provides her an opportunity to dig down further into the details of her policy plans.
She talked about them in the first debate, but I think it's a chance to show again that it's not surface level that she has a plan.
COOPER: Scott, do you think the former president wants to debate? Do you think he should debate?
SCOTT TAYLOR, FORMER US REPRESENTATIVE: I don't think he's worried about debating either way if he wants to or not. I think he'll do it. I think, as Anthony said, I mean, there are negotiations in every debate for the rules, for who the moderator is and I disagree with obviously, a couple of things that they're saying. I think that the high stakes were for Harris. Because if she failed in that debate, done, election is done.
She jumped over the low bar. I think. But I do think she failed and I'll get to why. I think she failed in showing what her actual policies are. She failed in showing that she doesn't believe in those really left-wing policies that she's on video confidently saying she's going to do when she's president, she failed on that.
[20:10:13]
And why I say that is when I walked in here last night in the CNN, there was a -- they showed a poll and they showed who Independents believe on the economy. And it was 20 points to Trump, it was like 55 to 35, and when they showed the actual undecideds, Reuters did it, it was like six to 10 people were for Trump.
So, I actually think, you know, take out all the opinions of Democrats, Republicans and all of that stuff, we all know there's a slice of electorate that's going to decide this election and I feel like the president, he won with that. He won.
[20:00:42]
COOPER: The Congressman is not wrong about the polling on the economy. A lot of voters do -- memories of pre-COVID economy under Trump.
SCARAMUCCI: Well, I am not going to dispute that she needed more fundamentals and foundation on the economy. I'll yield that to Scott, the congressman, but where she won that a debate is she looked presidential. She showed up.
She was classy, she was comported properly and Chris Christie sent me a text and said, she deserves to be there. She looks like she deserves to be there and that's the win for her.
COOPER: I want to play something that the Congresswoman Debbie Dingell, who was on CNN earlier said, the Michigan congressman with a warning for Democrats. Let's watch this.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
REP. DEBBIE DINGELL (D-MI):I was ecstatic, like every other Democrat, as I watched the debate. I thought she got under his skin.
One of my township supervisors called me and wanted to know what I thought. And I said, well, what did you think? And discussion brought me right back down to Earth.
It's just closer than people realize.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COOPER: Do you think that's --
TAYLOR: I mean, I served with Debbie and she's straight up, you know, she tells you like it is, and I think that -- now, the president, was he defensive? Sure, I mean, it was three against one. You have to -- anybody objective who look at that, it was three against one.
But I'll say, you know what she was saying there is he was on message about immigration, which is a real problem, flooding the country with unvetted millions of illegals in the border and open border.
It's a problem. It has created crime, a hundred percent created crime. People -- women have been raped, people have been killed, and it's a big problem and she's being honest and she saying he's on message talking about that. Kamala Harris, you're not talking about it because you don't want to take any blame for the open border.
But that's the reality. People see it as an issue because it is an issue.
ALFORD: One thing, I will say, I don't think that he was able to successfully be on message that night because he was so easily distractible. We were talking about the pets.
David Muir for asked him, how do you plan to do it? That was a moment when he really could have been pressed beyond --
COOPER: I mean, did she during the question about fracking into something that made him implode and he did not go after her on fracking.
Like, there was like -- it was malpractice, the opportunities he failed to take up on just as Joe Biden failed to take up on in the first debate.
ALFORD: And to the point about immigration. He had an opportunity to say this is how I do it, right. David Muir says, hey, how do you actually remove all of these people? Where would you start? And again, he went off on a rant and wasn't able to show that he actually had a plan.
COOPER: I mean, that's what he does.
SCARAMUCCI: We'll I just want to challenge the congressman for one second. She did say to him, you know, you want to run on the problem. You don't want to fix the problem and I'm just wondering if there's space there for people because they were making major concessions to conservative representatives in the House and the Senate on an immigration bill that Trump told them not to sign.
TAYLOR: So, it's a good point that you bring up and it is brought up quite frankly by Democrats and Harris' supporters. But the reality is millions of folks came into the country much before this bill that would have let another 1.8 million immigrants come in, illegal and of course, as soon as you pass something like that, you have a flooding of the border because that's what happens when you announce something that incentivizes immigration.
You have cartels, you have groups in Turkey who are making money sending foreign nationals across the border. That's a fact, they've made the cartels very, very wealthy.
So, I think that argument fall short on Americans who have seen crime, who have seen women be raped, who have seen people be murdered, who have seen the net jobs go to non-citizens, non-Americans. They've seen that and that's happened much before Democrats all of a sudden decided before an election, we better put a bill that --
COOPER: The question is, I mean, it does get to what Donald Trump asked at the end of debate, which is why not, why didn't you fix it the last three years, which you know, had he started the debate with that maybe he would have done a better -- had a better night.
But her line is always, well you tanked this bill, which is true and arguably outrageous. Does she need to get a better -- does she need to explain --
SCARAMUCCI: She has a great answer for that --
COOPER: -- her position on the border?
SCARAMUCCI: She has a great answer and she needed to say more of it but her great answer is, we inherited a disaster, whether it was COVID or not on our watch, 21 million jobs were lost.
TAYLOR: -- the border?
SCARAMUCCI: No, let me finish the sentence. We were fixing that and when we realized that there was a problem on the border way bigger than we thought originally. We tried to fix it by accepting conservative writing of a bill. And Mr. Trump stopped that.
[20:15:18]
TAYLOR: When was that --
SCARAMUCCI: And that's where all the cynicism is in America right now. You guys are not helping each other. The American people want to be helped. They don't want personal things that Donald Trump to block progress.
COOPER: We've got to take a break. We'll have more with this panel.
Coming up next, CNN's Brian Stelter with more on the former presidents recent traveling companion and Laura Loomer a racist tweet about Vice President Harris and his seeming high tolerance for intolerance lately.
Later, North Carolina's Democratic Governor on Kamala Harris' chances in a purple state that her campaign now says is winnable this time. We'll talk to the governor about that.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
COOPER: We touched on this at the top of far-right alleged Hitler's sympathizer and a far-right Jewish anti-Muslim agitator with one thing in common, strange bedfellows, perhaps, but both are Trump associates.
This is the alleged Hitler sympathizer, who, according to a new -- I can't get over this picture. I mean, like that's like very on the nose -- received an award last month -- this guy received an award last month at the former president's Bedminster Club.
[20:20:09]
The one convicted of taking part in the January 6th Capitol Riot, who federal prosecutors say told his co-workers at a Naval weapons station, "Hitler should have finished the job".
This getting off the Trump plane on Tuesday is Laura Loomer, who once called herself a proud Islamophobe and declared herself, "pro-White nationalism".
Last year, Loomer posted a video online which closed with the following line, 9/11 was an inside job. It was particularly surprising to see her with Trump yesterday in Lower Manhattan and Shanksville, Pennsylvania for 9/11 remembrances.
She was also with him at the debate, flew there with him. This weekend, she posted a racist comment on X about Vice President Harris' Indian heritage. The whole tweet isn't worth repeating, but to give you a sense of it, it reads in part, if @KamalaHarris wins the White House will smell like curry and White House speeches will be facilitated via a call center.
So, this was apparently too much for another far-right Trump supporter, Congresswoman Marjorie Taylor Greene.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
REP. MARJORIE TAYLOR GREENE (R-GA): I'm completely denouncing it. I'm over it and I would encourage anyone else that matches her statements to stop.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COOPER: So, that's Marjorie Taylor Greene who has in the past trafficked in QAnon conspiracies, anti-semitic tropes and the CNN's KFILE has reported repeatedly, indicated support for executing prominent Democratic politicians, including House Speaker Nancy Pelosi, and former President Barak Obama.
So that is now who's condemning Laura Loomer. For more on who she is, we're joined by CNN chief media analyst Brian Stelter.
So who is Laura Loomer?
BRIAN STELTER. CNN CHIEF MEDIA ANALYST: She's a far-right activist, who fancies herself an investigative journalist now, Anderson, but she's really more like a bomb thrower. She's someone who promotes yourself and courts attention through stunts and outrageous and often defensive comments on social media and unfortunately, we live in a media environment that oftentimes rewards that and incentivizes that from the likes of Loomer.
During the 2016 campaign, she worked undercover with the group Project Veritas reportedly trying to infiltrate Hillary Clinton's campaign. She also mounted two failed bids for Congress in Florida, and she's repeatedly tried to cozy up to Trump.
On the Trump count, Anderson, she has been successful.
COOPER: So, why, I mean, it's remarkable that she's very publicly associating with now the former president, she flew down on his plane to the debate at 9/11 remembrances.
STELTER: Yes and there is really a mystery now about exactly what she's doing, right?
The reports are that she has not been hired by the campaign, but she certainly in Trump's inner circle this week. I don't think we know for sure what exactly she's going to be doing in the future.
But during the Republican primary, she certainly was out there as a cheerleader for Trump trying to attack Ron DeSantis.
The former president reportedly wanted to hire her last year. And according to CNN's reporting, he was talked out of it by advisers and aides who said that would be a terrible idea.
In some cases, it seems like he is buying what she's selling -- noxious, incendiary, in your face, hard ball style politics sometimes with racist and Islamophobic overtones.
He reposts a lot of her content on Truth Social, and he spotted her in the crowd at an event earlier this summer saying she's a fantastic person, a great person. We know that some advisers are urging Trump to try to behave so to speak. But Laura Loomer indulges in his most base instincts.
But we don't know if she will continue to travel with him in the future.
COOPER: All right, Brian Stelter, thanks very much.
Anthony, does it make sense to you that he would now have her around?
SCARAMUCCI: Makes total sense. It fits like a jigsaw puzzle piece perfectly because all the normal mid of the range Republicans have left him. Some of them are tepidly supporting him like Governor Nikki Haley, but he wants nothing to do with her and he's gravitating to these alt-right people that help write the Project 2025 and all the different things that are going on.
He likes it and she gets him in trouble all the time. She came up with the term Black. I'm sorry, I'm saying that on your air, but that was Donald Trump's words, not mine.
COOPER: The thing he said in the -- Kamala Harris turning Black recently.
SCARAMUCCI: She fed the NABJ thing, that's her stuff. Okay, follow her on Twitter for some of the most incendiary discuss things stuff.
But that's him, there's a very big part of his personality that lives in that space and you have to ask the equivocation that's going on, 2016, a lot of us held our nose and said, okay, that's probably not right. We'll just pretend and threw cognitive dissonance, but we have eight-nine years of data now.
That's him. He is Laura Loomer and if you're supporting him right now, look in the mirror and say you're supporting somebody that is Laura Loomer's DNA and Laura Loomer's thought process.
ALFORD: Can I just say also that he gets to avoid responsibility, right? So, having the Laura Loomers out there saying the crazy things that maybe you won't say, right? But she gets to say it because she has no boundaries. She has no bottom.
SCARAMUCCI: Support that -- they're look alike.
ALFORD: It's avoiding responsibility and it reflects a double standard because I -- I mean, you remember the Obama years. People were going into who his pastor was, you know, 15-20 years ago. And what the pastor said at a at a church meeting and you have Laura Loomer right there in the room with him.
So I think she benefits from the publicity. But Trump and his campaign, obviously, there are a lot of Republicans weren't happy with it.
[20:25:19]
TAYLOR: I just think this is a super juvenile, to be honest with you. I mean, I watched Stelter on there saying, well you know, we get to reward for this. Of course, look, she's being talked about right now and you asked the question, who is Laura Loomer? I don't know who she is.
But I just feel like this is juvenile watching him.
COOPER: She's on the former president's name.
TAYLOR: It doesn't matter but the way -- like the way you're like -- the program is framing it, and the way that Brian is framing it, oh it's like these rumors and innuendos. I don't know what she's doing on there. Like, what are you talking about? That's not news. I think it's just juvenile beneath the show, to be honest with you.
COOPER: But we're not the ones who are hanging out with her. It's your candidate is hanging out with her and actually listening to her and taking advice from her to call the vice president a recently turned Black president.
TAYLOR: So he doesn't know --
SCARAMUCCI: -- you're not going to bring it up?
TAYLOR: We are talking about, you guys are saying he's taking advice from her. How do you know that? Brian doesn't know that.
SCARAMUCCI: She's on the plane.
COOPER: Oh, she's riding on the plane with him posting memes that he then talks about and adds dogs into them in the debate?
TAYLOR: Have you, on this show, had someone else who says crazy stuff, antisemitism, plenty of that on the left. Have you done the same kind of segment for Kamala because there's plenty of examples out there. So, I just don't, I just find this kind of juvenile to be honest with you.
COOPER: Right, okay, but what you're not doing is you're not saying anything about Laura Loomer --
TAYLOR: Right there --
COOPER: -- see your argument --
TAYLOR: Do one with her.
COOPER: Right, what you're doing is, you're trying to distract --
TAYLOR: I'm not trying to distract.
COOPER: Your argument doesn't -- I'm asking about Laura Loomer --
TAYLOR: I just find it juvenile, that's all.
COOPER: Okay, is it juvenile for the former president to hang out with her and to take advice from her.
TAYLOR: I don't know that he's taking the advice from her. I don't know who she is. So, I don't know. It doesn't matter if she is on that plane.
SCARAMUCCI: I've been on that plane lots of times.
TAYLOR: Did he take advice from you?
SCARAMUCCI: He took a lot of advice from me, he won in 2016, didn't he --
COOPER: He brought her to 9/11 remembrances. She's with him for days at that time.
ALFORD: She's serving a clear purpose.
COOPER: She's there for a reason. People aren't just --
TAYLOR: I just think, Anderson, I just think, you know, yes, we might want to talk about like rumors and I'm not ruining a reputation, we're just having a conversation about like rumors.
I mean, this isn't -- this is not -- the American people don't care about this. They just don't care about it.
COOPER: Okay --
SCARAMUCCI: So when he's saying -- what she is saying on Twitter that Kamala Harris turned Black and he's using her words at the NABJ, the American people don't care about that, like, that's a racist dog whistle, Scott.
And that is something that he is getting from her. And she's lighting matches into his mouth.
TAYLOR: I mean, I just feel like these are rumors, that's all.
SCARAMUCCI: Come on, you know that.
COOPER: Okay, so, if he is getting advice from her, is that a wise idea?
TAYLOR: She's happy right now, Anderson. She's probably super happy because she's getting tons of airtime right now for nothing. And just like Brian said --
COOPER: I'm just asking you.
TAYLOR: Whatever -- what you say is bad.
COOPER: I understand you don't want to answer the question because you are trying to deflect.
TAYLOR: I'm not trying to deflect anything.
COOPER: No, that is your argument and I get it. I get it. I understand your tactic.
TAYLOR: What are you asking me?
COOPER: Is it wise for -- if she is giving him an advice and he's taking advice from her, is that wise?
TAYLOR: I don't know, probably not. But I don't know, he's taking advice, I don't know, do you?
COOPER: Yes, based on the reporting, yes.
TAYLOR: On Brian's reporting? COOPER: Actually, the reporting about her being on the plane and the memes that then end up in the debate and also --
TAYLOR: Is there a reporter who sat on the plane with Donald Trump and said Laura Loomer is giving him advice. I mean is there?
SCARAMUCCI: He's using her words, Scott. He's using her words and her sentence structure when he's in a debate or he's in an interview, he's taking her words.
TAYLOR: Again, you guys are saying stuff that you just don't know -- it's just your opinion which is fine. We all have opinions --
SCARAMUCCI: Okay.
COOPER: Okay, the White House also hit back at Loomer's comments about Vice President Harris, let's play that.
TAYLOR: She must be really happy, the White House is sitting on --
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
KARINE JEAN-PIERRE, WHITE HOUSE PRESS SECRETARY: It is repugnant, these types of comments, it is un-American to say these types of things. Exactly, the kind of hateful and divisive rhetoric that we should denounce and we should not -- should not be part of the fabric of this country.
No leader should ever associate with someone who spreads this kind of ugliness. This kind of racist poison.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COOPER: Anthony, do you think, obviously, look, Trump has some very talented political minds around him in his campaign, the fact that at this stage though, he's now bringing these other people, what does that tell you about --
SCARAMUCCI: When things go badly for Donald Trump, he reverts back to the Laura Loomer sort of stuff. So, he's probably going to make more changes, management level because he got destroyed in that debate. And every time things go badly for him, he recoils and he goes in that direction.
I have to say to my new friend, Scott that I disagree with them because if it's on Twitter that she just turned Black and that is coming out of the former president's mouth, she just turned Black, he is listening to her, Anderson.
You know, when the windows open you hear clippety-clop outside, it's a horse, not a zebra, its Occam's razor. He's listening her. She's on the plane with him. She -- he's talking to her.
ANDERSON COOPER, CNN ANCHOR: Does it --
NATASHA ALFORD, SENIOR CORRESPONDENT, THEGRIO: He's very -- SCARAMUCCI: And he -- and she's a new shiny penny for him and he likes
it. And he knows that he wants to win on white supremacy and misogyny. That's how he wants to win.
ALFORD: I know that you're laughing. We just met. So this isn't personal, but I -- we are raising children who --
SCOTT TAYLOR (R), FORMER U.S. REPRESENTATIVE, VIRGINIA: I agree.
ALFORD: I have --
TAYLOR: Nobody has --
ALFORD: My son is Haitian and Puerto Rican and African American.
TAYLOR: Sure.
ALFORD: And I have to explain to him that this is part of the conversation. If children start teasing other children over being from immigrant families, we're talking about real impact. We are talking about needing a change in the character and the moral center in terms of who is a president and the standard that he sets for this country.
So it just -- it isn't funny, right? It isn't something to dismiss. And he has a responsibility to think about who's around him, who's in photos with him. Because again, in many ways, they are speaking for him. And to not speak up, to not denounce it, is unacceptable. It's the same thing that happened in Charlottesville, and it's happening again.
TAYLOR: Charlottesville was a lie. That's the first thing.
ALFORD: There's no lie. I watched it on television.
TAYLOR: Let me finish. Let me respond. I just listened to you.
ALFORD: OK.
TAYLOR: Let me respond.
ALFORD: Go ahead, please.
TAYLOR: Let me respond. I was respectful. The reality is this. No campaign, Democrat or Republican, is somehow innocent of inflammatory rhetoric. The President of the United States got shot in the head. My colleagues got shot at a congressional practice, baseball, at a baseball practice. But no campaign, no side is innocent of not saying inflammatory rhetoric.
You can't say that, you can't all be one side and you're just, oh, he's saying bad stuff and not criticize the other side. You have to be able to do both because I agree with you. I'm raising a son too. And I want him to be respectful. And I want him to love all people and respect them. And he will, because that's how I'm raising him.
But just like you, I have to speak to him because he asked questions as well. And it's on both sides. So, look, I would love for our country and I would love for our political discourse to be a lot better and softer and not so inflammatory because in the end we're all Americans and we love each other and we're all part of one team.
The reality is that is not how it is right now and most likely it won't be like that until the campaign at least is over and unfortunately maybe not afterwards either.
ALFORD: We're not talking about being above criticism. I've done both sides. I've been able to criticize candidates on both sides. I'm just talking about myself, but you cannot look at the rhetoric coming out of Donald Trump's mouth and equate it with what we've seen from Kamala Harris.
TAYLOR: I was laughing at the fact that we're talking about this so much. And to be honest with you, I'm watching it. No offense, I mean, I respect you, of course, you know, but you guys are speaking like you're in the president's mind, and you're just not. You're not. That's all.
SCARAMUCCI: All right.
A. COOPER: Scott Taylor --
SCARAMUCCI: It was three on one tonight, but it wasn't three on one at the debate.
ALFORD: Exactly --
TAYLOR: It's always --
(CROSSTALK)
SCARAMUCCI: I'm telling you, that debate was fair and even, and the losing side always blames the refs. You know that.
A. COOPER: Yeah.
ALFORD: They did their job.
A. COOPER: Anthony Scaramucci, thank you. Natasha Alford, Scott Taylor as well.
Coming up next, Vice President Harris kicks off a tour of swing states. Two stops today in North Carolina. State Democrats haven't won since back in 2008, but think they have a chance now. We'll see. North Carolina's Democratic governor joins us next.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[20:37:21]
A. COOPER: Vice President Harris's post-debate tour of swing states began in North Carolina today. A short time ago, she wrapped up her second stop in a state Democrats have begun to view as possibly winnable ever since Harris became the party's standard bearer. Biden lost it by only about 74,000 votes in 2020.
Now, the latest poll on North Carolina comes from Quinnipiac University. It shows Harris at 49 percent, Trump at 46 percent. The three-point lead is within the poll's margin of error, however, meaning there's no clear leader.
Earlier tonight, I spoke with Democratic North Carolina Governor Roy Cooper about the race in his state.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
A. COOPER: Governor Cooper, the last time a Democrat got North Carolina's electoral votes in a presidential election, that was 2008, it was Barack Obama. Do you think Harris can flip your state blue again?
GOV. ROY COOPER (D), NORTH CAROLINA: Anderson, in 2008, North Carolina made history by voting for Barack Obama. It's time for North Carolina to make history again by voting for Kamala Harris. I feel the same kind of energy. We had thousands of people unpaid, Donald Trump, unpaid in Charlotte and in Greensboro this evening.
They were energetic. They were on fire. They left here ready to make phone calls, knock on doors, do volunteer work, taking people to the polls. I feel that same energy this year that I felt in 2008. And it's really exciting to see her come to North Carolina right after that strong debate performance. And she's been on a roll since the announcement. And she hasn't stopped.
A. COOPER: Which --
R. COOPER: I mean, she's very positive. We know this is going to be a close race.
A. COOPER: Yes.
R. COOPER: We know it's going to be a close race.
A. COOPER: What -- to that end, I mean, what do you think her campaign strategy should be in North Carolina from now until Election Day?
R. COOPER: Well, we know that Donald Trump will be here a lot. We know that in August, this is my understanding that he spent more in North Carolina than any other swing state. This is because Donald Trump must win North Carolina.
If Kamala Harris can win here, then she's the next president of the United States. So I think this is her 18th visit to North Carolina as vice president. Her presence here means a lot. So coming here as much as she can, we obviously want to see.
The ground game is extraordinary, making sure that she's doing everything she can to gen up volunteers. And many of our volunteers had been first time volunteers. It's the first time they've ever gotten involved in a race. What that says to me is that a lot of people who have been disaffected, who just haven't been voting because they don't think their vote matters, or they're just frustrated with the government, I believe that Kamala Harris is going to energize a lot of these people and they're going to go to the polls.
[20:40:13]
They're not that many people who haven't made up their mind, but there are a lot of people who haven't made up their mind whether they're going to vote. If we can get those people to the polls, which I believe we can, Kamala Harris can win North Carolina.
And she's got the right message. Fighting for women's reproductive freedom, helping to fight the cost for everyday families, the child care tax credit, and health care. In North Carolina, we just expanded Medicaid. 530,000 people now having health insurance. Donald Trump wants to take those health insurance cards away.
That's going to be a big issue in our state. She's going to hit all of these notes, she hit them today, and I think she'll continue to do that.
A. COOPER: We earlier showed a Quinnipiac poll which shows Harris with a three-point lead, that's within the poll's margin of error. The Democratic nominee for governor, North Carolina Attorney General Josh Stein, leads the Republican nominee, Lieutenant Governor Mark Robinson, by 10 points, 51 percent to 41 percent.
Robinson's made several controversial comments, obviously. Do you think the gubernatorial race would have a major impact on the presidential race?
R. COOPER: I think that Mark Robinson, the Republican nominee, is so extreme with his comments like men should lead and not women, that there should -- abortions should be denied with no exceptions. He enters into the culture wars.
Donald Trump has heartily endorsed Mark Robinson. I believe Mark Robinson will help bring Donald Trump down in North Carolina because Republicans, Democrats, and unaffiliated alike are turned off by Mark Robinson in his statements of turning North Carolina backward.
So I think there'll be a top down effect and a bottom up effect. We're one of those few states that do elect our statewide offices at the same time we elect the president. North Carolinians are independent. They sometimes split tickets, but I believe in this race that this governor's race can help Kamala Harris and another reason why she needs to be here and all in for North Carolina.
A. COOPER: Governor Roy Cooper, thank you so much for your time.
R. COOPER: Thanks, Anderson.
Coming up, the former president laying the groundwork for another possible challenge to any election results he doesn't like and the director of a new documentary on the last time he tried to overturn an election.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[20:46:44]
A. COOPER: Arizona is not just a battleground state this election, but ground zero for election lies about the last one. And today in his speech to supporters in Tucson, the former president appeared to lay groundwork, should he lose again.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DONALD TRUMP (R), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: I was told if I got 63 million votes, which is what I got in 2016, you can't lose. Just get 63. I got close to 12 million more votes than that, and we lost, but we didn't lose. What I -- and we're never going to let that happen again in this country. We're never going to let that happen. We can't let that happen again.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
A. COOPER: Well, my next guest is the director of a documentary that appears on our sister network, HBO, next Tuesday, September 17th. "Stopping the Steal," is what it's called. It's an inside look at the former president's attempt to overturn the election, and how that challenge started well before any votes were cast.
Dan Reed joins me now. Dan, I mean, your film explores how the groundwork for what happened was laid long before people understood the scope of what was happening.
DAN REED, DIRECTOR, "STOPPING THE STEAL": Yes, I think, what the film tries to do is join the dots. There were a series of, you know, before the drama of January 6th, you have all these skirmishes at a very -- a relatively, you know, low level in counties and states of the United States. And it's putting together all these dots and creating a picture of this. There's this moment of danger for the American Republic that we've tried to do in this documentary.
A. COOPER: You -- the film tells the story through the perspective of Republicans who held the line, and I want to play a clip of Rusty Bowers, who was the Republican House Speaker in Arizona during the 2020 election. I think a lot of people may remember him. Let's listen.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
RUSTY BOWERS, FORMER ARIZONA STATE REPRESENTATIVE: Rudy, you remember when you told me you were going to bring me some proof? Have you got it? No, I don't. Jenna (ph), do you have the proof? She goes, yes, yes, we've got the proof. She had a satchel. I don't have it with me. It's probably back at the hotel.
OK, thanks for letting me come. I'm gone. I knew what he wanted. I knew what he was asking, and I told him they had to bring me the proof. They didn't bring it, so I wouldn't do anything.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
A. COOPER: And, I mean, this is a man who, you know, people are showing up at his house. I believe when, if memory serves me correct, when his daughter, I think was ill, screaming, you know --
REED: Right.
A. COOPER: -- how important were, you know, people like Rusty Bowers and others in preserving the integrity of democracy in, you know, in our election in 2020?
REED: These Republicans were crucial. They're the ones that held the line, they're the ones that puts their duties to the country, their duty to democracy before their political interests and often paid the price. I mean, and they're the people who narrate this story for us.
I -- this isn't a story told by, you know, people who have a political acts to grind against Donald Trump. These are people who embraced his policies and who really wanted him to win. But just when it came to that moment when they were asked to betray the very principles of democracy in the American constitution, they just couldn't do it. And so they were the ones that we have to thank really for holding the line in 2020.
A. COOPER: Is it -- I mean, I've talked to a number of people who were involved in various states in various efforts. I've talked to some of the, you know, fake electors who have now said, well, you know, Wisconsin, for instance, and said, well, I didn't know. We thought this was legit.
[20:50:07]
Lawyers had signed off on this. I didn't know that this was part of this larger plan, that this was only to take place in case the Supreme Court overturned the election. Do you -- I mean, when do you trace the start of this? When did these efforts really begin?
REED: Well, you can see President Trump laying the groundwork even before, you know, in July 2020 before the election saying, you know, the only way we're going to lose is if it's rigged. You played a clip just then, which echoes that.
I think, you know, the steel really starts when Trump begins to ignore people like Bill Barr as attorney general, who's telling him there was no fraud and turns to Rudy Giuliani and what Bill Barr in my documentary called the clown car of lawyers who then roll out this effort, which is very consistent throughout states and counties in the United States to overturn the election results.
And that's, you know, it's something that may not have been very clear at the time. But when you, you know, rise to the sort of 10,000 foot view, which is what this documentary does and join all the dots, it becomes quite chilling.
A. COOPER: And at the end of the documentary, I mean, there are a number of people warned that if Trump gets the chance, he will try and overturn the decision that goes against him again.
REED: Yes. I mean, you know, this documentary is timely, but also timeless. And I think it pinpoints a moment of danger for elections in general, for the idea of democracy in general, not just for this one. But, yes, if you look back at what he did in 2020, I think, you know, it's very clear to the people, to the Republicans who spoke to me, to the Trump supporters who spoke to me, that he may well try and do this again.
You know, he -- there's always more, as one of them said, there's always more. You know, he will take it further.
A. COOPER: Dan Reed, I love your films and this is an extraordinary one. Thank you.
Again, the name of the documentary is "Stopping the Steal." It will premiere on our sister network HBO next Tuesday, September 17th at 9:00 p.m. Eastern.
Up next tonight, the Gen Z TikTok creators who support Trump and Harris alike with a common goal of getting more young people engaged in politics.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[20:56:26]
A. COOPER: ?TikTok recently announced it is adding more resources on voting and how elections work for its more than 170 million American users. This comes as the popular Chinese owned platform could possibly be banned in the country as soon as January over national security concerns.
But TikTok is still attracting a growing number of users, including young voters, who say they use the app to keep up with politics. So what does that look like?
CNN's Donie O'Sullivan met with two Gen Z content creators, one pro- Trump, one pro-Harris, to find out.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
DONIE O'SULLIVAN, CNN SENIOR CORRESPONDENT: What's your most viewed video?
NESA E., TIKTOK CREATOR, @RIGHT.ALWAYS.WINS: Born in Iran, raised in Iran, but more patriot than those who vote blue with the Trump flag in my office.
MARIANNA PECORA, COMMUNICATIONS DIRECTOR, @VOTERSOFTOMORROW: That was a couple days ago in the airport on my way here to Atlanta.
Donald Trump is the biggest, most existential threat to Gen Z's future.
O'SULLIVAN (voice-over): Nearly all TikTok users said in a survey that they use the app because it's entertaining. But more than a third said they also use it to keep up with politics.
PECORA: It's been a really fun time to be on the internet.
O'SULLIVAN (voice-over): So I met with two Gen Z TikTokers to talk about how and why they make political videos.
NESA E.: Despite what some people refuse to believe, Donald Trump is receiving so much support from people that are young, like, kind of like my age.
O'SULLIVAN: Right.
O'SULLIVAN (voice-over): Nesa is an Iranian immigrant who's amassed thousands of followers with her pro-Trump TikToks, many of which show off this MAGA store in Forest Lake, Minnesota.
NESA E.: You will get compliments from most people on social media as long as you support their opinions. And I believe the algorithm also plays a huge part, specifically on TikTok.
God bless you. I followed you. Facts.
O'SULLIVAN: You know when you're posting this stuff that it's going to start a debate?
NESA E.: Yes.
O'SULLIVAN: And that's kind of the point?
NESA E.: Kind of. Yes. I believe I'm providing a space for Republicans and Democrats to have debates.
O'SULLIVAN: What are you seeing on your feed?
NESA E.: I mostly see Trump stuff. I went to the same high school as Barron Trump. I'm going to save this to watch it later.
PECORA: Sure, you might have been seeing online engagement for Donald Trump, but that's because young people are really, really scared of it.
O'SULLIVAN (voice-over): Marianna Pecora works with Voters of Tomorrow, a nonprofit focused on getting Gen Z to the polls.
PECORA: Quick take, what's your least favorite thing in Project 2025?
O'SULLIVAN (voice-over): Marianna is a big fan of Vice President Harris.
O'SULLIVAN: You edited this?
PECORA: This one I had some help from one of our younger volunteers.
O'SULLIVAN: Right.
PECORA: We were specifically trying to reach, like, a younger Gen Z, almost Gen Alpha leaning audience with that.
We've been talking about what Congress can do to support young people. Congressman Bowman, what you got?
At this point just about every member of Congress has either, like, a Facebook page or an Instagram or a Twitter. Not all of them are on TikTok, and I think that's OK.
O'SULLIVAN: Yes.
PECORA: They, like, not --
O'SULLIVAN (voice-over): Not everybody --
PECORA: -- not everybody is suited for it, but I think it's really important and exciting that there's a lot of young people working in politics that are focused specifically on content creation right now.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Hey, North Carolina Democrats, we just got done --
PECORA: The best messenger for a member of Gen Z is another member of Gen Z.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
A. COOPER: And Donie join joins me now. What about misinformation? I mean, how big of an issue is that on ticket?
O'SULLIVAN (on-camera): Yes, look, I mean, you saw in that piece a bit of folks are having a lot of fun with all the memes or whatever, but, look, I think there was this idea a few years back where maybe younger people, Gen Z, Gen Alpha, which was the first time I've heard of Gen Alpha, where maybe immune and some --
A. COOPER: Is that a new one I have to learn?
O'SULLIVAN (on-camera): That's the next --
A. COOPER: That's the next thing. OK.
O'SULLIVAN (on-camera): -- yes.
A. COOPER: OK.
O'SULLIVAN (on-camera): And they're using whatever comes after TikTok.
A. COOPER: Yes.
O'SULLIVAN (on-camera): But, yes, all the memes that are going around, a lot of those kind of have basis in misinformation. I mean, we've heard stories, conspiracy theories about J.D. Vance and pieces of furniture and things like that. Sometimes that joke goes too far. And some people, even Gen Z, say, oh, is this sort of thing true?
So just as we're seeing on the right, the crazy stuff about eating cats and dogs and mice in Ohio, a little bit happening on the left, too.
A. COOPER: All right. Donie O'Sullivan, thanks very much.
That's it for us. The news continues. The Source with Kaitlan Collins starts now. See you tomorrow.
