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Anderson Cooper 360 Degrees
GOP Ex-Rep. Liz Cheney Joins Harris at Wisconsin Rally, Melania Trump Confirms Support for Abortion Rights in New Video. Cassidy Hutchinson Talks About Why She Endorsed VP Harris; Fight For Latino Voters In Battleground States; Chris Wallace On His New Book On The Nixon-Kennedy Presidential Race. Aired 8-9p ET
Aired October 03, 2024 - 20:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
ERIN BURNETT, CNN HOST: ...years with us. I call it lucky 13. It was October 3rd, 2011 when "Out Front" first went on the air. That was our first actual show when we debuted and since then it has been an honor and a privilege every day to be here.
No matter where the stories have taken us, including of course, being here night in Israel. Thank you so much for supporting, it has meant everything to our team who has been together as a loyal, wonderful group for so long, have a good night.
Anderson starts now.
[20:00:31]
ANDERSON COOPER, CNN HOST, "ANDERSON COOPER 360": Tonight on 360, Liz Cheney, a staunch conservative, joins Kamala Harris in the swing state Wisconsin town where the Republican Party was born. Fellow conservative Harris supporter, Adam Kinzinger joins us.
So does Cassidy Hutchinson, one of the three former Trump White House staffers who will make their own case against their old boss next week in Pennsylvania.
And tonight, Melania Trump selling her book and staking out for a different position on abortion from her husband and especially his party.
Good evening. Thanks for joining us.
If politics makes strange bedfellows tonight that same notion also makes news. Just a short time ago in Ripon, Wisconsin, home of the Republican Party, one of the grandest names the Grand Old Party campaign for the Democratic candidate for president.
Former Wyoming Republican Congresswoman Liz Cheney, who like her father, Dick Cheney is both a staunch conservative and now a Harris supporter.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
LIZ CHENEY, FORMER US REPRESENTATIVE/VOTING FOR HARRIS: I cast my first vote ever in 1984 for Ronald Reagan. I served in the State Department in both Bush administrations and I served in the United States House of Representatives for three terms, including as the third highest ranking Republican in House leadership.
(CHEERING AND APPLAUSE)
CHENEY: So, in other words, I was a Republican even before Donald Trump started spray tanning, 20 years ago when we were campaigning in Wisconsin and all across the country, we were campaigning as compassionate conservatives.
What January 6th shows us is that there is not an ounce, not an ounce of compassion in Donald Trump. He is petty. He has vindictive, and he is cruel, and Donald Trump is not fit to lead this good and great nation.
KAMALA HARRIS (D) VICE PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: Every endorsement matters and this endorsement matters a great deal, Liz, and it carries a special significance because as you said, we may not see eye to eye on every issue and we are going to get back to a healthy two-party system, I'm sure of that where we will have vigorous debates.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COOPER: Former Congressman Liz Cheney will also be making her case against Trump next week in Pennsylvania, along with former Trump administration members, Alyssa Farah Griffin, Sarah Matthews, and as I said, Cassidy Hutchinson who endorsed Vice President Harris last night.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
CASSIDY HUTCHINSON, FORMER AIDE TO TRUMP WHITE HOUSE CHIEF OF STAFF MARK MEADOWS: Policy is important, it's very important to me and there may be few issues that Kamala Harris and I would see eye to eye on.
But Donald Trump and JD Vance cannot be trusted with the Constitution. They cannot be trusted to uphold our rule of law and they can't be trusted to enact responsible policy.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COOPER: Cassidy Hutchinson joins a shortly.
Joining us now is Machalagh Carr who served as chief-of-staff to Kevin McCarthy when he was house speaker before he was ousted a year ago. Today, with us as well, CNN political commentators, Bakari Sellers and former Republican Congressman Adam Kinzinger. He served on the January 6th committee with Liz Cheney and like her has endorsed Vice President Harris. Also, CNN's Kristen Holmes, who's traveling with the Trump campaign.
So Congressman, how important and maybe surreal is it for voters to see Liz Cheney up on that stage campaigning with Kamala Harris? ADAM KINZINGER, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: Well it's, probably pretty
surreal. It's very important because again, if this is kind of the Republican base, a significant amount are sold on Trump and they're going nowhere. But there's an amount of Republicans here that are embarrassed by him, but they still think there's some vestige of the old party left.
And I just remind them as I'd remind everybody, look, Liz Cheney, I mean, I'm conservative. Liz Cheney makes me look like a raving liberal. She's extremely conservative.
Our viewpoints haven't changed from when she was number three in line for the party. She was the number third most powerful Republican when I was called a rising star in the party. So what changed?
Well, the answer this is really simple. We did not bow the knee and pledge allegiance to Donald Trump.
So, anybody that tries to pretend like somehow this party is the same party and this is the group were talking to. You can't say that. It's literally just do you commit to Donald Trump or not? And after what we saw, particularly on the January 6th Committee and what we saw with the filing yesterday with Jack Smith, this guy is absolutely unqualified to sit again in the Oval Office and have nuclear codes.
COOPER: Bakari, I want to play something else that the vice president said tonight.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
HARRIS: I know the vast majority of us, regardless of your political party agree we must hold sacred America's fundamental principles.
No matter your political party, there is a place for you with us and in this campaign. Because those principles I know with unite us across party lines. And in this election, I take seriously my pledge to be a president for all Americans.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
[20:05:31]
COOPER: It is extraordinary to hear a Democratic candidate making a statement like that with Liz Cheney standing, you know, right next to her. Do you believe that there are enough voters out there who might be receptive to that message?
BAKARI SELLERS, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: I think so and I think that Congressman Kinzinger or Adam, as I call him, actually hit the nail on the head because the simple fact is there a lot of people who don't get caught up in the partisan politics of Washington, DC.
They feel as if this country is better than what we've seen. They wanted new elected officials. I mean, I don't necessarily quote Nikki Haley a lot. But Nikki Haley actually said that the first party to get a younger person, somebody who represented the future would be the more successful party and I think you're seeing that.
The Democratic Party finds itself at an interesting crossroads today. I mean, you have the kind of ill-fate of losing the endorsement or not gaining the endorsement of the Firefighter's Union. But on the flip side, you see Kamala Harris doing something that is just fundamentally fascinating, which is one, go to places Democrats don't normally go. Fight after every single vote and I'm not sure you've ever seen anyone cobble together a coalition that looks like Bernie Sanders, AOC, Taylor Swift, Bruce Springsteen and now you actually have Liz Cheney and her father, as well as adding Kissinger, as well as Geoff Duncan.
I mean, this is a coalition that resembles what the United States of America looks like. And it's led by someone who looks like Kamala Harris and just maybe that's a winning strategy. I mean, our fingers are crossed.
COOPER: Machalagh, I want to play something else that Liz Cheney said tonight.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
CHENEY: In this election, a broad coalition has come together to support Vice President Kamala Harris. Now, we may disagree on some things, but we are bound together by the one thing that matters to us as Americans more than any other. And that's our duty to our Constitution and our belief in the miracle and the blessing of this incredible nation.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COOPER: The former president is trying to paint Kamala Harris as a Marxist, a radical. It sounds a little harder after Liz Cheney and Dick Cheney endorsing her, no?
MACHALAGH CARR, FORMER CHIEF OF STAFF FOR SPEAKER KEVIN MCCARTHY: Now, look, if these endorsements are trying to be used to somehow convince the American people that Kamala Harris is a moderate or anything other than the radical liberal that wants to raise taxes and wants to take guns in a mandatory buyback program, and wants to end the filibuster and wants to ban offshore drilling, all of this is who she is.
COOPER: I don't hear her campaigning about taking guns, by the way.
CARR: Of course, she's not campaigning about it, but she also isn't denying it. Instead of being asked if she still supports the policies that she has always supported, including a mandatory gun buyback, she says, I'm a gun owner, which is very typical to be someone who is going to inculcate themselves from the policies that they are pushing.
But I just lets don't believe and there are people on this panel tonight that disagree with me, but I don't believe that January 6th serves as a permission strategy to embrace radical leftist policies. And they're not conservative policies, and she's not a conservative person.
COOPER: Kristen, I want to play -- well, first of all, Congressman Kinzinger, do you buy this radical left attack on Kamala Harris?
KINZINGER: Not, no and it's ringing hollow. She's made it very clear, she's actually taken a lot of real estate that Donald Trump vacated. He's not proud of America, the Republicans aren't proud of America. They're proud of America and their vision of 1950. And that's what they keep talking about, is that old America, but America as it exist today? No.
And she's showing that American pride, so look, I don't agree with Kamala on everything, of course, but my -- we've argued the same issues for a hundred years, Anderson, we're going argue them for another hundred years.
This is a unique moment in time, when we're talking about our democracy. And after January 6th, after McCarthy bowed the knee to Donald Trump and resurrected him, we've got to take a strong stand to save this party in the country.
COOPER: Kristen, I do want to play what former President Trump told Fox today about Cheney's support for Harris.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DONALD TRUMP (R) FORMER PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: Well, at least Cheney lost for Congress. She was terrible.
Liz Cheney is a stupid war hawk. All she wants to do is shoot missiles at people.
I really think it hurts. I think frankly, if Kamala -- I think they'll hurt each other, I think they're so bad, both of them.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COOPER: I mean, is it clear how much if at all concerned Cheney, I mean, could help Harris on the margins in swing states? I mean, do you think that campaign is good -- the Trump campaign is concerned?
[20:10:11]
KRISTEN HOLMES, CNN NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Well, in a race like this where both sides believe that they could be determined in the margins. Of course, there's always going to be concerned that anything could swing a handful of voters which again could determine the outcome of the election.
Now overall, the Trump campaign doesn't believe that these endorsements are hurting Donald Trump as much as Democrats on the other side have said that it would, but there's also a belief that Donald Trump's base is a different Republican Party, that they had already discounted Liz Cheney, that they had been following along for the last three years as the former president slammed Cheney as they went back and forth after each other. And that, this isn't that big of a surprise to those people.
One thing, Anderson, that I cannot stress enough is the fact that Donald Trump privately understands that he's not going to get a lot of these moderate voters. He might say that he's trying to appeal to women, but part of the strategy isn't really going after these moderate in the middle independent voters because there is a belief that they'll never vote for Donald Trump.
Instead, they're trying to find these low propensity voters in areas that they believe would be leaning Donald Trump, leaning Republican to try and expand the electorate, not go after a certain group of voters that they think that they've probably already lost.
COOPER: Bakari, how do progressive Democrats like yourself, I think you would maybe a very progressive Democrat. How would you square being in the same political boat as Liz Cheney and Dick Cheney?
SELLERS: I think the thing that brings us together, the tie that binds us is Donald Trump and we understand that democracy is fragile. We understand in the last four, five, six years, we've seen the fragility of democracy and understand that we want to preserve it.
I mean, there are a lot of people in the this country who don't care about partisan politics. They put country over party. I mean, that's why when you say things like she wants to take your guns rings hollow because the people who say that Kamala Harris wants to take your weapons or guns are the same people who have been waiting for Barack Obama to knock on your door since 2008.
Those old partisan lines don't work anymore. When we're talking about making sure that democracy works for everybody. And this is a choice election. Anderson, I've said this on your show before and I've said it repeatedly. People had three choices in this race, that's it. You have three choices. You either vote for Kamala Harris, Donald Trump, or the couch. Those are your three choices.
And I think that two of those choices are detrimental to the future of this country and one choice is Kamala Harris. Now, does that mean that she's going to win this race? I'm not sure. She's still an underdog.
But the fact that she's going to places in Wisconsin, the Democrats don't often go to. The fact she's standing with Liz Cheney, but she's also talking about making sure that Black men and Hispanic men are heard.
I mean, this is something that we haven't seen before and this last 30 days is going to be a sprint where she's meeting voters, where they are, and where she's going after each and every voter. No matter what you look like, who you pray to or what party you been a part of.
COOPER: Machalagh, have you ever seen a presidential campaign where so many of the people who once worked with a candidate have come out -- you know, Cabinet members, distinguished generals, former chiefs-of- staff, Liz Cheney, Cassidy Hutchinson, Alyssa Farah-Griffin, Sarah Matthews, I mean, so many people from the administration have come out with really terrible things to say about Donald Trump. Have you ever seen a campaign where this has occurred?
CARR: I haven't seen that. I think one of the things that Adam points to is that there is a bit of a realignment happening here and Kamala Harris is attempting to take positions that were traditionally held by Republicans.
You do have in this instance, members of the Democratic Party endorsing Trump, whether its Tulsi Gabbard or RFK, and we don't see that being talked about in the same context, but I do think there are a lot of things to Adam's point that she is trying to claim as positions that she's going to lead on, but that rhetoric is completely countered by her record in public office.
COOPER: All right, we're going to take a quick break to that point, just ahead tonight, Cassidy Hutchinson on her journey from Trump White House insider to Harris for president supporter, she joins us live.
And next, what the former president makes of the former first lady writing about and speaking out on abortion rights.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[20:18:46]
COOPER: The former First Lady is making news tonight on abortion rights, which in her new book, she says should be "free from any intervention or pressure from the government. She said more in a video promoting the book.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
MELANIA TRUMP, FORMER FIRST LADY OF UNITED THE STATES: Individual freedom is a fundamental principle that I safeguard.
Without a doubt there is no room for compromise when it comes to this essential right that all women possess from birth. Individual freedom, what does my body, my choice really mean?
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COOPER: Sorry, it's the first time I've seen that, that's the weirdest promo I've ever seen. Like the lighting -- Sorry, I've written four books. I've never seen a promo like that.
Her answer on the video at least is by the book. Tonight her husband had this to say on the subject.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TRUMP: We spoke about it and I said, you have to write what you believe. I'm not going to tell you what to do. You have to write what you believe.
She's very beloved, people love her, former First Lady. I can tell you that. But I said you have to stick with your heart. I've said that to everybody. You have to go with your heart.
There are some people that are very, very far right in the issue, meaning without exceptions and then there are other people that view it a little bit differently.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
[20:20:14]
COOPER: I've recovered from shock.
Back with Machalagh Carr and Bakari Sellers, joining us CNN's Kaitlan Collins, who anchors "The Source" coming up at the top of the next hour, she's also going to profile Melania Trump and her Democratic counterpart, Doug Emhoff, airing right here Sunday night on "The Whole Story."
Okay, Kaitlan, So --
KAITLAN COLLINS, CNN HOST, "THE SOURCE": It is all shot and have a shadow, the dark line, right.
COOPER: Yes. I mean, it's fascinating, never seen that before. So, I usually just like to -- just on the camera phone but --
COLLINS: Yes, or just Instagram.
COOPER: Yes, so, the timing of this revelation, I mean, obviously, there is a promotional aspect to it. It makes a headlines. We're talking about this book, which we would not have been talking about otherwise what do you make of the fact that she has made the statement now?
COLLINS: Well, you can't ignore that it's happening 30-some days out from the election in which abortion has been single-handedly, the worst issue for her husband, for his party that he has struggled with when it comes to women voters and maintaining their support and growing their support, which he hasn't really been able to do.
But also, I think it has more to do with Melania Trump promoting her book that it is promoting her husband's presidential campaign. I think she has this book. She's been doing a series of videos like this, maybe none as dramatic as this one. But it's coming out in a few days and she very clearly wants to be able to sell copies to have this book be a bestseller.
So, that is why she's coming out and she's very strategic. She knows what will make news and what will get headlines.
COOPER: There was this report about, from the Log Cabin Group, that she had received money like two hundred and something thousand dollars for an appearance at the Log Cabin, which was a gay Republican group. The Log Cabin said, they didn't pay for it, but somebody clearly somebody paid her.
You've worked on this documentary. I read that she had requested or somebody had, not she but, somebody from the publisher had requested money for an interview.
COLLINS: Yes. We obviously were asking for one, anytime someone has a book, especially someone newsworthy, as someone as maybe the future First Lady is putting out a book you ask for an interview and her publisher sent a request to CNN for six figures in order to have one, not just that, also a nondisclosure agreement, obviously, two things that you don't do for interviews. You don't pay the guest and you don't sign non-disclosures with them. But those were two things they wanted.
Now, the publisher, when CNN went back and asked about it and was going to make this public, she said it was mistake and Melania Trump's team has said that she had nothing to do with that, that she wasn't aware of it.
But it is the exact same amount that she made when she spoke to that group at a fundraiser, $250,000.00. Obviously, CNN did not sign that.
COOPER: It's stunning though that the publisher was asking for $250,000.00 in order for her to do an interview with CNN.
COLLINS: And she's only done one national interview that I've seen so far to promote this book, which comes out in five days. It's with Fox News that she did last week to talk about it. And so, I just think that's notable in and of itself, but it speaks to the larger part of this, which is that she's trying to promote this book, to sell this book obviously, as people do to make money off this book.
COOPER: So Machalagh, the former president has obviously struggled over the course that campaign to articulate where he stands on abortion. We just heard them say people need to stick with her heart on it.
I'm wondering what you make of that stance for president's candidate to be taken weeks out from an election or is that savvy?
CARR: I think that's exactly where the country is. Remember, when Roe was overturned, it was not anything other than putting the issue back in the hands of the American people, back in the hands of the voter.
For the candidate, for the Republican candidate to now say, I think people should make up their own minds is incredibly directly aligned with the position that he's taken and the Republican platform that says this should be a state decision is I think more in line with where the American people are than the unrestricted position that the Democrats are taking.
COOPER: Bakari, do you think this statement from the former First Lady moves the needle for voters for whom abortion is an important issue and maybe were on the fence about backing the former president?
SELLERS: No. I think that right now the Republican Party and Donald Trump on the issue of abortion are at best intellectually dishonest. And I think that's the best thing you can give them.
To say that the country is with the proposition that this should be left to the states is inaccurate, I mean, it is fundamentally inaccurate. And the reason that that occurs and what happens as a result of that inaccuracy or the result of that poor policy choices that women die.
I mean, Amber Thurman is a case. I mean, you heard Governor Walz talk about that, but women die when you consider the fact that different states have strenuous policies where either they can't get the care that they need or doctors have to risk prosecution because of giving women the care they need and deserve.
Donald Trump and JD Vance, the audacity of them to think they get to make that decision is just troubling. And Donald Trump is somebody who put three justices on the Supreme Court that overturned 50 plus years of precedent in Roe v. Wade.
[20:25:05]
Now, I do want to talk about the bad lighting video for one second because they're grifters. I mean let's be 100 percent honest, they're grifters.
And the reason that you have someone putting out a book right now. I mean, it sounded like a good ad for Kamala Harris talking about women autonomy and everything else. But the reason you have people putting out a book right now is to tell it.
It is the same reason that Donald Trump is talking about loving working people, but selling hundred thousand dollars watches. I mean America has to turn the page on the grift that is Donald Trump, Jr., that is that is Melania Trump and Donald Trump, former president.
COOPER: Kaitlan, you actually take a look at Melania Trump, what she was doing during the attack on the Capitol, during the insurrection in "The Whole Story" which is this documentary that airs on Sunday, and I want to play a clip from that.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
HOST: Please welcome, Stephanie Grisham.
COLLINS (voice over): By 2024, Melania's chief-of-staff, a self- proclaimed former Trump, true believer described her breaking point with the first lady.
STEPHANIE GRISHAM, FORMER WHITE HOUSE PRESS SECRETARY: On January 6th, I asked Melania if we could at least tweet that while peaceful protests is the right of every American, there's no place for lawlessness or violence. She replied with one word, "no."
I became the first senior staffer to resign that day.
I remember that day very well because I was at the White House, but later we would realize what she was doing was having a rug photographed, a rug that she had redesigned for the Diplomatic Room, that's what she did on January 6th.
COLLINS (on camera): That morning as --
GRISHAM: That day -- COLLINS (on camera): -- her husband was delivering the speech on the
ellipse and his rioters were attacking the Capitol.
GRISHAM: She was doing a photo shoot. And I think at that point, people could really understand who Melania Trump was, much more aligned with their husband's politics than people thought.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COOPER: Do you think, I mean, she's fully on board with her husband's lies about the 2020 election. I think she's more like her husband and more of a believer than people think.
I think people sometimes view Melania as this trapped individual who wants to break free and wants to get out. I think she has a lot more views that align with him than people realize it.
Kate Bennett, who covered Melania very closely, had another fascinating comment in that about her last days inside the administration, in the White House. She kind of was just walking around and in a terry cloth bathrobe looking at like what is called the swag room, it's all the gifts they get that they can buy and take with them once they leave the White House from dignitaries and whatnot, that's really what she spent the last few weeks of the administration doing, while Trump was obviously seeking to overturn the election.
COOPER: I did not know there was a swag room nor terry cloth robes.
COLLINS: It's like a binder that you flip there and you can look at gifts that world leaders have given you and they try to price them, which is its difficult to do, and you can take them home.
COOPER: Wow, Kaitlan, thanks very much. See you at the top of the hour, Machalagh Carr, thank you; Bakari Sellers as well.
Coming up next for us, former Trump White House insider, newly announced Harris supporter, Cassidy Hutchinson.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[20:32:27]
ANDERSON COOPER, CNN HOST: Tonight's breaking news, Liz Cheney endorsing Kamala Harris does not stand alone. We also learned today that she and three former Trump White House insiders will be campaigning for her in Pennsylvania next week. One of those women, Cassidy Hutchinson, her memoir, "Enough," is now out in Paperback. And she joins me now. Thanks so much for being here. Why did you make the decision to endorse Vice President Harris?
CASSIDY HUTCHINSON, FORMER TRUMP WHITE HOUSE AIDE: The decision to endorse Vice President Harris was honestly a very simple decision for me, especially after speaking out against Donald Trump and the dangers that he poses to our democracy. I had also planned to support President Biden if he were to run for reelection. And I gave him a lot of credit for passing the torch onto the next generation of leadership. In Vice President Harris, you know, I don't personally see eye to eye with her on a lot of policies.
COOPER: There's issues you disagree with her.
HUTCHINSON: Correct.
COOPER: Just like Liz Cheney was saying today --
HUTCHINSON: Which is healthy in our country, that is what our country is founded upon. We are, in theory, we have two strong political parties. That's not what we're facing right now. And the quality of her character is what I'm voting for. We might not see eye to eye on many policy issues, but I trust her to hold people accountable. I trust her to uphold our rule of law. And I trust her as a figure that I would be proud if my children looked at as a person to want to emulate.
Same thing with Tim Walz, you know, and they're both from working class backgrounds, the people that Donald Trump claims to represent, but he is really in turn for the last 10 years exploited and manipulated to become his base of supporters. And it's not their fault that he's lying to them and continuing to propagate these conspiracy theories.
COOPER: It -- it's interesting to hear. I mean, Harris today saying, you know, we -- essentially we want to get back to two responsible political parties with disagreements, you know, understandably arguing over what's the best course, which is, I mean, it -- it's strange to hear a person from one party saying, you know, we want an opposite party that is responsible to disagree with us and fight us, but just not the current person who is running that party.
I mean, the Republican Party today, the Donald Trump's party, does it -- do you recognize it as the party -- did you grow up in a Republican family? Does it -- did you grow up, I mean, did you always view yourself as a Republican? Does it look like the Republican Party you remember at all?
HUTCHINSON: I grew up in a very apolitical family. I was the first person in my family to graduate college. But at that point I had identified as a Republican. The first Republican that I had felt really that I could relate to was Mitt Romney. That was the first presidential election that I felt invigorated by and what drew me into politics.
[20:35:13]
The Republican Party today is, in my view, completely unrecognizable from what it was 10, 12 years ago. It's been completely warped and tarnished in Donald Trump's image, and he has essentially elected a body of enablers in both the House and the Senate to do his bidding. So as important as it is for us to focus on ensuring that he does not ever get near the Oval Office again in this next presidential election, we also have to focus on Congress. Because if there is a chance that he wins, we need to make sure that there are not Republicans in Congress who are there to actually enact his agenda, which we don't know exactly what it will be, but it's increasingly more dangerous.
COOPER: It is stunning to me just the sheer number of people who worked in the Trump White House in the cabinet, chief, former chief of staff, I mean, generals who, you know, how -- are publicly saying like that -- he -- he can -- he is not qualified to be president of the United States.
HUTCHINSON: It's stunning. It's -- and I'm not aware of there ever being a period like this in American history. What I say to those people is I'm very grateful that many of them have spoken out. The reason that I personally continue to speak out is because I view it as a moral obligation to myself because I worked for him. I was very loyal to him.
I really believed that he represented the American people and I was proud to work for him until January 6th, you know. And as this period has passed where I've gained a lot of clarity and I see things now of his character that I had very easily overlooked and I don't say that with any pride, I'm very ashamed of that in a lot of ways.
But when I look at all of that, I see it as my responsibility to continue speaking out to educate the American people because they need the information of who they are voting for. So whether people worked for Donald Trump, were friends with Donald Trump, had done business with Donald Trump, it's our responsibility to keep a megaphone to this because, especially through Election Day, because this can't be lost.
COOPER: Cassidy Hutchinson, thank you so much. Really nice to talk to you.
HUTCHINSON: Thank you. Thank you for having me, Anderson.
COOPER: Appreciate it.
Coming up, could Latino voters determine who wins the battleground state of Pennsylvania? Our Danny Freeman reports on that. We'll be right back.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[20:41:52]
COOPER: Recent nationwide polling of Latino voters reflects what our John King reported last month in his all over the map series from Nevada that a majority of Latinos may back Vice President, but inflation and worries about the overall economy and given the for, excuse me, did I drop my mic? Thank you. Danny Freeman reports.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
DANNY FREEMAN, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Fresh off his vice presidential debate, Minnesota Governor Tim Walz was in Redding, Pennsylvania, stopping at a Puerto Rican owned restaurant to boost support among the city's majority Latino population.
GOV. TIM WALZ (D-MN), VICE PRESIDENTIAL NOMINEE: This thing's going to come down to our blue wall states, come down to Pennsylvania, might come right through this restaurant.
FREEMAN (voice-over): At the same time, just four blocks away, the Trump campaign was holding its own phone bank specifically targeting Latinos in the Lehigh Valley. (SPEAKING IN FOREIGN LANGUAGE) President Trump? What are the three reasons you are supporting President Trump?
MARCIA HERAS, TRUMP SUPPORTER: Oh, OK. (SPEAKING IN FOREIGN LANGUAGE).
FREEMAN: Family.
HERAS: (SPEAKING IN FOREIGN LANGUAGE).
FREEMAN: Life.
HERAS: (SPEAKING IN FOREIGN LANGUAGE).
FREEMAN: And end of war.
FREEMAN (voice-over): The dueling outreach, just the latest sign both campaigns understand the importance of Latino voters in the Keystone State.
In 2020, President Joe Biden beat former President Donald Trump in Pennsylvania by about 80,000 votes. But with this race still extremely tight, the estimated 615,000 eligible Latino voters here could easily help decide the November outcome.
While recent national polls show Harris doing better than Biden was with Latino voters, they also show Trump outperforming past Republicans among this group, which in recent elections has solidly backed Democrats.
At a Harris campaign event this week in Allentown, another deeply Latino city, there were plenty of voters excited about the Vice President.
HECTOR SANTANA, UNDECIDED VOTER: (SPEAKING IN FOREIGN LANGUAGE).
FREEMAN (voice-over): This man told me he feels Harris represents hope and will help small businesses, but there were warning signs, too. (SPEAKING IN FOREIGN LANGUAGE).
SANTANA: (SPEAKING IN FOREIGN LANGUAGE).
FREEMAN: (SPEAKING IN FOREIGN LANGUAGE). You're not going to stay home. You're going to vote.
SANTANA: No. (SPEAKING IN FOREIGN LANGUAGE).
FREEMAN: Today you have not made a decision of who you're going to vote for.
SANTANA: No
CARMEN DANCSECS, MORTGAGE LENDER: I think we have too many people that are kind of like on shaky waters. They don't know where they stand.
FREEMAN (voice-over): To energize this community in Pennsylvania, the Harris campaign is turning to volunteers like Yamelisa Taveras, the campaign featuring the Allentown small business owner and mom in a new ad focused on healthcare this week.
YAMELISA TAVERAS, HARRIS SUPPORTER: I believe we have a great shot with Harris-Walz. However, the campaign can do more. There's still so many people on the fence. And -- and having those conversations and knowing that there truly are a lot of people that can benefit from so much more information.
FREEMAN (voice-over): For their part, the Trump campaign is turning to men like Daniel Campo. The Venezuelan born pilot recently spoke at a trump rally in northeastern Pennsylvania. But Campo said his biggest challenge when canvassing Latino neighborhoods are people who feel the former president is prejudiced against Latinos.
FREEMAN: How do you convince them to vote for him?
DANIEL CAMPO, TRUMP SUPPORTER: So are you going to invite him to your wedding? Are you going to invite him to your birthday party or your kid's birthday party? You have somebody that did the job and did a good job and you're hiring him again for that job. You're not inviting him to your wedding.
[20:45:11]
FREEMAN (voice-over): Danny Freeman, CNN, Allentown, Pennsylvania.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
COOPER: Joining us now is Abel Maldonado, a former, excuse me, a Republican, former lieutenant governor of California, and Ana Navarro, a Republican strategist voting for Kamala Harris.
Ana, I mean, you heard what, in Danny's piece the last voter said he's voting for President Trump, and he said his pitch to other voters is, you know, you're not inviting him to your kid's birthday party. It's a similar to an argument of, you know, we're not asking him to be the pastor-in-chief. He's the president. What do you make of that argument?
ANA NAVARRO, CNN SENIOR POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: Well, I -- I translate that to he's a jerk. But look past the fact that he is a jerk and you wouldn't invite him to your wedding because you don't like him, you don't have to like him. We used to like our presidential candidates. It was, you know, they used to -- there used to be a test, somebody you'd like to have a beer with.
Well, Trump doesn't drink, so that's a problem right there. But look, I think what you are seeing with Latinos, Anderson, is -- and I'm sure Abel would say this to you, because in both our families, there is friction and there is division as to Trump and Harris. Latinos are all over the place when it comes to issues.
And when we say you cannot paint the Latino vote with one broad stroke, that's absolutely true. There are Progressive Latinos. There are Conservative Latinos. There are Latinos who are pro-choice. There are Latino who are pro-life. I have found there is one thing that all Latinos want. They want to be seen. They want to be heard. They want to be acknowledged. They want to be sitting at the table. They want to be reached out to. They want to be part of the conversation. They want folks to come out and earn their support and their vote.
COOPER: Lieutenant Governor, what do you make of the argument that that man was, the pitch he was making to other voters to vote for Trump, which is, well, you would -- it's not -- maybe he's not the guy you want to invite to your children's party or I mean, that's not a great argument, is it, like?
ABEL MALDONADO (R), FORMER CALIFORNIA LT. GOVERNOR: Well, I mean, like on, I just stated what she feels that Latinos want. Latinos also want to be able to feed their family. They want to be able to make their home -- home payment, their rent. They want to be able to pay for their insurance, for their vehicles and times have been tough.
And Anderson, I think Latinos for the first time in their history, they're going to be able to vote. And they've seen both economies, they've lived under the Trump economy and they've lived under the Kamala Harris economy.
And for them, it's become an easy vote from the standpoint of, you know what, I lived better under Donald J. Trump, so I could afford, and at the end of the week, I had a little extra money to take my family to get an ice cream on Saturday or even maybe a dinner, which Latinos like to do. And I think this is boiling down to all economics.
And then you add the border. The border has been wide open lately. We know that. And people want to be safe. Latinos want to be safe. When they put that deadbolt at home at night, they want to be safe at home. So that's the allure that they have. And I really believe them. When I see these numbers, Anderson, of 48 percent for Donald J. Trump, those are staggering numbers. Why? They don't see him as a politician.
COOPER: Do you think, Ana, the argument that Kamala Harris is making about the boarder, I mean, obviously she's come out with, you know a speech in which she actually, you know, sort of drilled down on it a little bit more. But the, you know, the pivot to pointing out that the former president killed this deal, this bipartisan deal. Is that enough of an argument for her to make?
NAVARRO: Look, I think there's many arguments to be made when I was out all over the country speaking to Latinos, some of them told me they were very bothered by the tone. I sat down with a family in Cumming, Georgia, where 10 percent of the population is Latino in that swing state, where the young boy who's now in college, told me about being attacked with racial slurs when Donald Trump was running.
And he directly connected one thing to the other because Donald Trump was saying it. People were calling him horrible names. He said this to me with tears in his eyes. So that matters. The way he treats veterans, there is enormous amount of Latinos who have served and died for this country. That matters. The border, that matters.
The way that he treats immigrants and refers to immigrants, you know, Abel, that when he is talking about immigrants as venom to this country, as poisoning the blood, he is referring to people who look like you and who look like me and who sound like you and who sound like me. And so, it matters to some people. It doesn't mean that it matters to everybody. Different things matter to different people.
COOPER: Does that bother you?
MALDONADO: But, you know, Anderson, I get what Ana is saying. My father is an immigrant to this country. He came under a temporary worker permit in the early 60s where they checked him for lice, for TB. There was a process. He's supporting Donald J. Trump. He's made it very clear to me. He said, Abel, whether you like him or not, we live better under Donald J. Trump. And it become to that.
[20:50:08]
NAVARRO: But does that bother -- answer that question, though, does it bother you when he calls immigrants -- when he says that immigrants like your father and like me poisoned the blood of this country.
MALDONADO: I don't even look at that, Ana, to be very sincere with you.
NAVARRO: How could you not?
MALDONADO: I -- I don't, Ana, because look --
NAVARRO: Your name is Abel Maldonado.
MALDONADO: I know, I know. But I don't look at it that way.
NAVARRO: You -- believe me, when people look at you and when people look at me, they see immigrants and they see people that came from other places. They, you know --
MALDONADO: Ana --
NAVARRO: We don't look like we come from Finland, Abel.
MALDONADO: -- Ana, Ana, President Trump is not going to change.
NAVARRO: OK.
MALDONADO: That's who he is. And we've had four years --
NAVARRO: Exactly the main thing.
MALDONADO: -- we've had four years. No, what I'm saying, he is a good economy, strong borders. Latinos like that. They want to be safe at home, Ana. NAVARRO: Who died over proportionately with COVID? Latinos and African Americans. And who managed COVID at the beginning, mismanaged COVID at the beginning?
MALDONADO: Ana the --
NAVARRO: Those things don't matter?
MALDONADO: Ana, the polls are saying that Latinos are voting for him in huge numbers.
NAVARRO: Because I think --
MALDONADO: Are you saying they're wrong too Ana?
NAVARRO: I think Latinos have every right to make their decision. And I think Latinos are coming onto their own -- onto their own as a community.
MALDONADO: They are.
NAVARRO: And we are no longer one issue --
MALDONADO: They are. You are right.
NAVARRO: -- voters.
MALDONADO: One hundred percent.
NAVARRO: But, you know, and I think it's -- it's going to be a fight until the end. I think Kamala Harris is going to win the majority. I think the question is how many is Donald Trump able to peel away?
COOPER: Abel, Ana, thank you very much Appreciate it.
Coming up next, CNN's Chris Wallace on his new book "Countdown 1960" and the parallels he sees from the Nixon-Kennedy showdown to today.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[20:55:45]
COOPER: CNN's Chris Wallace has more than the 2024 election on his mind. His new book is titled "Countdown 1960: The Behind-the-Scenes Story of the 312 Days that Changed America's Politics Forever." And it is a fascinating story. It explores the historic presidential race between two political titans, Vice President Richard Nixon and Senator John F. Kennedy.
In an election that gave America its first televised presidential debates, as you see, and an extremely close vote. On election day one, which led to some by now familiar claims of voter fraud and a stolen election. Chris Wallace joins us now. The -- in terms of the parallels between 1960 and now, I mean, Nixon did, there were some who, you know, were pointing to some ideas of voter fraud, but Nixon accepted this. CHRIS WALLACE, CNN ANCHOR: Yes. I would say that 1960, and one of the reasons I wrote it and wanted it to come out now, is I think 1960 takes 2020 and the events we're going through still, since 2020, and stands it on its head. I think that was an election. That may well have been stolen when you look at the rampant, egregious voter fraud in Illinois under Richard J. Daley, in Texas under Lyndon Johnson.
I think those states might have been stolen from Richard Nixon. And Nixon came under a lot of pressure from the Republican Party to contest it. And in the end, he decided, no, I got to do what's right for the country, not what's right for me. I can't contest an election. Put it in the courts at the height of a cold war. And he conceded. He met with Kennedy about a week after the election.
And most tellingly and shows the resonance and the contrast in 2020 on January 6th of 20 -- of 1961 as his job, he's certified the counting of the electoral vote that John Kennedy, who was in the House chamber at the time, had won, had beaten him and congratulated him and said, this shows the strength of our democracy.
COOPER: It's interesting that they met, I mean, that they weren't best friends or anything, but I mean, they were -- they weren't necessarily enemies. Do you think that -- that politics, I mean, is that now just a thing of the past?
WALLACE: No. I hope not. I don't -- I hope it's not irreversible. It's certainly not something that I think we can expect from Donald Trump. We certainly didn't see it in 2020. And frankly, were he to lose in 2024, I don't think we'd see it again. But I mean, it is the history of our nation that, and this is one of the things that was so shocking. I was 13 in 1960. And I remember I watched the debates on T.V. with my parents and, you know, followed it avidly.
And, you know, the idea, the win, somebody wins, somebody loses, the loser congratulates and concedes to the winner, and we move on, that's what democracy was all about, which was what made 2020 so -- so deeply shocking. And it's something I draw, telling the story of what happened in 1960 and how even though it was a weird election on a variety of levels they played by the rules. Those rules are gone. I hope just temporarily.
COOPER: The -- the -- obviously, the infamous debate between the two you write about this in the book. I've talked to Doris Kearns Goodwin about it whose husband was involved in -- in the debate prep. I mean, it's so fascinating the different approaches. It seems like Nixon didn't take that first debate as seriously as Kennedy did. I mean, Kennedy, it seems like, you know, was really working off three by five cards, going over notes a lot that Nixon kind of assumed he was just better at this stuff than Kennedy.
WALLACE: Right. He -- remember, he'd been vice president eight years, a year before. He'd gotten in an unofficial debate with Nikita Khrushchev in a model kitchen at a trade fair in Moscow. And he just thought I'm a heavyweight. He's a lightweight. I mean, just something as simple as the physical issue, which was that Kennedy went to California. He got a deep tan. When they came into the studio they asked, do you want some makeup? He said, no. Nixon who famously had a five o'clock shadow and had was still suffering from a very serious infection he had, refused to have makeup. He needed the makeup.
COOPER: Yes.
WALLACE: He looked --
COOPER: And Kennedy and Nixon wore a lighter color suit, which blended into the background.
WALLACE: Exactly. No, I mean, it just -- there were miscalculation after miscalculation just quickly at the end of the -- of the debate, Richard Daley, the mayor of Chicago, turned and said, my God, they embalmed him before he died.
COOPER: Oh my God. Chris Wallace, thank you. The new book is fascinating. A "Countdown 1960: The Behind-the-Scenes Story of the 312 Days that Changed America's Politics Forever." It goes on sale Tuesday. The news continues, The Source with Kaitlan Collins starts now.
