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Anderson Cooper 360 Degrees
Harris Speaks at Third Rally of Day in Wisconsin; Taped Interview with Gov. Josh Shapiro (D-PA). Israel: Hamas Leader Killed In Gaza; IDF Releases Drone Video Showing Hamas Leader's Last Moments; Blinken: U.S. Will Redouble Efforts To End Conflict After Sinwar's Death; Pastor Says Christian Nationalism Could Lead To More Violence; In Western North Carolina's Disaster Zone, Residents Use ATVs And Trucks To Reach Early Voting Sites. Aired 8-9p ET
Aired October 17, 2024 - 20:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
[20:00:00]
KAMALA HARRIS (D) VICE PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: ...different visions for our country. One that is focused on the past, his and ours that is focused on the future --
(CHEERING AND APPLAUSE)
HARRIS: -- because we know America is ready for a new way forward, ready for a new optimistic generation of leadership --
(CHEERING AND APPLAUSE)
HARRIS: It's all of us, it's all of us, which is why Democrats and Republicans and Independents are supporting our campaign.
In fact, yesterday, over 100 Republican leaders from across the country joined me on the campaign trail.
(CHEERING AND APPLAUSE)
HARRIS: Including some who had previously served in Trump's administration. And I believe it is because America wants a president who will serve on behalf of all the American people.
(CHEERING AND APPLAUSE)
HARRIS: And that has been the story of my entire career. My entire career, I've only ever had one client, the people -- the people.
(CHEERING AND APPLAUSE)
HARRIS: As a young court room prosecutor, I stood up for women and children against predators, as an attorney general of California, I took on the big banks and thought to deliver $20 billion for middle- class families that faced foreclosure.
I stood up to veterans and stood up for -- excuse me, stood up for veterans and students being scammed by big for-profit colleges. You know who else -- who ran a big for profit college?
(BOOING)
HARRIS: Let's not forget, and I stood up for those veterans and students who are being scammed by for-profit colleges that were trying to rip them from their dreams and charge them producing nothing in return.
I have stood up for workers who've been cheated out of the wages they were due. I have but up for seniors who are facing elder abuse. And as president, I will always fight for the American people.
(CHEERING AND APPLAUSE)
HARRIS: I will always fight for the American people and together we will build a brighter future for our nation together.
(CHEERING AND APPLAUSE)
HARRIS: And it's a future where we build what I call an opportunity economy, where America has an opportunity to do for our people what we know is part of our ambition, our dreams, our aspirations; an opportunity economy where everyone has an opportunity to own a home, to build wealth, to start a business. Under my plan we will bring down the cost of housing.
(CHEERING AND APPLAUSE)
HARRIS: Including, with a $25,000.00 down payment assistance so you can just get your foot in the door.
(CHEERING AND APPLAUSE)
HARRIS: You do the hard work of saving up and paying that mortgage but let's be honest, you know, the American dream, well that was real for generations past, but not so much within the reach of people right now.
And we've got to deal with the real challenge is that people are facing right now, if we're going to invest in the future.
Part of my plan is about helping entrepreneurs start and grow small businesses.
(CHEERING AND APPLAUSE)
HARRIS: Look, my mother worked hard and there was a woman who lived two doors down from us, our neighbor who helped my mother race us. She was a small business owner. I know who our small business owners are. You are not only business leaders, you are community leaders, you are civic leaders and it is our small businesses who are the backbone of America's economy. I know that to be true.
(CHEERING AND APPLAUSE)
HARRIS: Do we have any small business owners here tonight? Raise their hands, yes.
(CHEERING AND APPLAUSE)
HARRIS: Under my plan, we will expand Medicare to cover home health care for seniors.
(CHEERING AND APPLAUSE)
HARRIS: Again, this is based on what I personally know. So look, when my mother was sick, I took care of her and one of the things for anyone who is in that situation or has been, you know, what it's like.
It's about cooking for folks in a way that hopefully they'll want to eat. It's about trying to find the clothes that won't be too rough on their skin. It's about trying to from time to time, think is something that can put a smile on their face or make them laugh.
It's about dignity. It is about dignity, but the reality it is expensive if you don't have the ability to do it. It is expensive to try and bring somebody in and far too many people then have to quit their job to try and take care of their elder relatives and that's not right.
[20:05:34]
That's not right and so, we also know there are so many people in what we call the sandwich generation, right? Who are raising young children while you're taking care of your parents. And it's almost impossible to do it all.
So, my point is this either under the current system, you pay down and lose all your savings so you can qualify for Medicaid or you know what I'm saying.
(LAUGHTER)
HARRIS: Either you have to give it all up to be able to qualify for Medicaid or you're going to have to quit your job or somehow figure out how you can afford to bring in help. So, my plan is that instead, we are going to have Medicare cover home health care for those who need it.
(CHEERING AND APPLAUSE)
HARRIS: Because the details matter, the details matter.
In an opportunity economy, here's how I see it. We must create good paying jobs that are available to all Americans and not just those with college degrees, okay.
(CHEERING AND APPLAUSE)
HARRIS: Because here's the thing, a college degree is not the only measure of the skills and experience of a qualified worker.
(CHEERING AND APPLAUSE) HARRIS: Which is why as president, I will get rid of unnecessary
degree requirements for federal jobs and I will challenge the private sector to do the same.
(CHEERING AND APPLAUSE)
HARRIS: And we will lower cost on everything from health care to groceries and take on corporate price gouging. I've done it before and I will do it again.
(CHEERING AND APPLAUSE)
HARRIS: My plan will also give a middle-class tax cut to a hundred million Americans, including $6,000.00 during the first year of your child's life because here's the thing, we know, the vast majority of parents have a natural desire to parent their children well, but not always the resources.
And that shouldn't be the thing that gets in the way of giving a child all that we know parents have to give and the $6,000.00 by extending that child tax credit that's what's going to help.
You by a crib or car seat and all the things that that child needs during that most critical phase of their development. And I share with you some of these details to say this, I will always put the middle- class and working families first.
(CHEERING AND APPLAUSE)
HARRIS: I come from the middle class and I will never forget where I come from, never.
(CHEERING AND APPLAUSE)
HARRIS: Now Donald Trump different plan.
(BOOING)
HARRIS: Just Google Project 2025, you know, I mean, I can't say this but I can't believe they put that thing in writing.
(LAUGHTER)
HARRIS: You know, I just, and they did just put it writing. They bound it and then they handed it out. And if you read it, look, it's a detailed and dangerous blueprint for what he will do if he is elected president.
You know, many of you have heard me say, I do believe that Donald Trump is an unserious man.
(CROWD answer "yes.")
HARRIS: But the consequences of him being president again are brutally serious, brutally serious. Because here's the thing, Donald Trump will give tax cuts to
billionaires and big corporations just like he did before. He will cut Social Security and Medicare and get rid of the $35.00 cap on insulin for seniors.
(BOOING)
HARRIS: Check this out when you look at Project 2025, he will make it easier for companies to deny overtime pay for workers. And he will impose what I call a Trump sales tax, which is at a Trump sales tax, which is at least a 20 percent tax on everyday basic necessities which economists have estimated will cost the average American over $4,000.00 more a year.
(BOOING)
[20:10:31]
And on top of all of this, Donald Trump intends to end the Affordable Care Act.
(BOOING)
HARRIS: and he has no plan to replace it.
So you watched the debate, he has "concepts of a plan." Come on.
But again, it's a serious issue because here's the thing, he is going to then threaten health insurance coverage for 45 million Americans based on a concept and take us back to when insurance companies were denying people with preexisting conditions, you remember what that was?
Well, we are not going back. We are not going back.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
ANDERSON COOPER, CNN HOST, "ANDERSON COOPER: 360": That is Vice President Harris tonight, right now in Green Bay, Wisconsin, her third stop in the state today.
Joining us now is Erin Perrine, served as director press communications for the Trump 2020 campaign. Also, CNN political commentator Ashley Allison, national coalitions missions director for the Biden-Harris 2020 campaign; also bestselling author Jeffrey Toobin and Republican strategist, Ana Navarro, who is supporting Vice President Harris this time.
Is this what Vice President Harris should be doing? She's been hitting obviously that state hard.
ANA NAVARRO, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: Absolutely, first, she has gotten incredibly good at this, incredibly effective. I also love today in the earlier rally that she had in Wisconsin, where she had some heckling and she disposed of them with the master fullness of the Oakland shade. Okay, it came out, the sassy Kamala Harris, that I have known for
eight years came out and I love that she's being more authentic. She is clearly being more comfortable. I think people get to know her more, but look, what people want, what voters want is to see that candidates are making an effort and showing up and doing these rallies that get media attention, that get thousands of people there.
That shows to the people from those swing states that it matters that they matter, that they care and that's why they're there.
COOPER: Hillary Clinton, Jeff was knocked for not paying enough attention to Wisconsin. Biden won Wisconsin by some 20,000 votes, I think in two counties, that's made all the difference. Is she doing enough?
JEFFREY TOOBIN, BEST SELLING AUTHOR: This is such a difference from how Democrats have acted in the past. I mean, 2020 was so weird because it was COVID, you didn't have candidates going out. Hillary Clinton famously didn't go at all. The thing that is so striking to me as we come into this home stretch is the difference in tone between Trump and Harris.
Harris' optimism, you see this, the country is -- things are getting better. Donald Trump is presenting a coherent view of an America that simply does not exist. He says, in rallies this -- he says this over and over again. If you send your child to school as a boy he will come home as a girl and they won't even tell you as a parent.
This has never happened in the history of the United States that someone has gotten transgender surgery at school, but that demonization of transgender people, of immigrants. This is the heart of the Trump campaign. It may work, but it is very different from what we've seen with Harris.
COOPER: In this final stretch, I mean, it does seem, Ashley, in this final stretch that any, I mean, not that there were guardrails with the former president in terms of the truth and not truth, but there is now just no regard for the truth at all. And even in some of these town halls, things he's doing, he's asked a question. He just --that's something you just ignore totally and he just answers the question he wish he was asked.
ASHLEY ALLISON, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: Yes, that's why the vice president in her Fox Interview yesterday said that he was unhinged and he doesn't answer questions. And quite honestly, he's been lying to us for a very long time and people in his party didn't say no, that that was unacceptable, that was disqualifying to be our nominee. And so, here we are since he's had to face no consequences for his lies, except for his 34 felony convictions, he continues to do it because it hasn't stopped him politically.
So, I like that Kamala Harris is calling it out. I also like because Donald Trump has rewritten how politics is played. Kamala Harris is running a new playbook herself, going into very diverse media territories, doing multiple rallies, finding her footing to Ana's point, telling the hecklers you are at the wrong rally, you meant to go to the small one, kind of still poking fun at Donald Trump and his infatuation with crowd size.
So, he faces no consequences for lying. It doesn't mean we should not continue to call it out though.
[20:15:31]
COOPER: Erin, I mean, does it matter what Trump says at the Al Smith Dinner tonight, CNN will air his remarks live, because in 2016, he wet went after Hillary Clinton pretty hard by the standards of that dinner, Harris is not going to be there, obviously, Harris -- does that change the calculus for him at all?
ERIN PERRINE, REPUBLICAN STRATEGIST: I don't think it changes the calculus. I think Donald Trump would say exactly what he wanted, whether or not Kamala Harris was in the room or not this evening. It's not going to change what he does.
And Kamala Harris, I mean, she should get a little bit of applause for doing that Fox News interview. But she did a Fox News interview, she didn't go into the thunder dome here. And so she's trying to reach other audiences with her message.
But how effective is she being in that right now? Because that Bret Baier interview, she was on her back foot almost immediately and become combative and I understand that the nature of that interview was a more combative style, but she wasn't delivering a message to the middle-class voter to the one who's saying, I need more information because she was giving the same answer over and over again.
We're hearing the same thing over and over from both sides and right now, voters are saying we are deadlocked. This is 50-50 in the country, both campaigns have got to wake up a little bit right now. And yes, you may try a different outlet or a different news opportunity, but they've got to do something that's drastically different now if they think they're going to be able to shake any part of this electorate in any fashion for one of them to be clear, discernible winner.
COOPER: Yes. I mean, Ana, you know, I guess you can always look back should she have been doing this sooner going into more unfriendly territory, more combative interviews or whatever it may be. There's talk of her going with Joe Rogan, obviously, a very popular podcast -- should she do that? Should she have done all this sooner? Is it too late?
NAVARRO: You know, people ask about should she have done things sooner? I mean, this has been a very condensed campaign season, right, for Kamala, yes you think?
I mean, it wasn't, but a few weeks ago, the woman had to put together her campaign, had to put together her policy, had to pick a vice president, had to put together the Democratic National Convention, had to go deliver and now --
COOPER: I'm not saying she could have, I'm just wondering, would it have been better if that was baked in -- NAVARRO: She's doing it now and I think a lot of people are paying
attention for the first-time now, 30 days out. I think she should go do Joe Rogan. Yesterday, she is proving one thing very clearly. One, she wants to be the president for all Americans. That's why she's going to places like Fox News, not just left-wingers, not just Democrats, not just MSNBC watchers or CNN watchers.
And two, she is not afraid, unlike Donald Trump, who refuses to do a CNN debate, that's why she's doing a town hall just what you who refuses to do, MSNBC, NBC, who you know, is just a scaredy-cat.
COOPER: Nineteen days.
TOOBIN: If you look at the communications from the campaigns now, they're not even fundraising anymore because it's really just too late. They are focused almost entirely on turning out their voters. And I don't really know how many people are actually changing their mind at this late date.
I think the challenge to both sides is getting the not so enthusiastic voters out to the polls, because you know, getting people, intellectually engaged, if they're not paying attention at this point, I doubt they're going to be paying attention.
NAVARRO: Nobody is changing their mind but--
COOPER: And Ashley, I mean, you know about turnout operations. How are the turnout -- you know, you look at huge early voting numbers in Georgia. It seems like in North Carolina, even given all the problems that they've had with the storm it seems like big numbers already. Georgia, I think the first two days had record numbers for double what they'd ever had before on the first day. How are the turnout operations for the Harris campaign versus the Trump campaign?
ALLISON: Well, they have massive operations in all the battleground states. One of the good things that she was able to do even on this consolidated timeline, is that there were offices already up for Joe Biden and already had staff in many of the battleground states. So she was able to inherit that. And in the last 100 days, she has really surged.
I know that they are sending money not just to the state parties, but to local groups on the ground, really, to turn folks out and not just do it in a door knocking way, going to where people are already congregating and getting them either register to vote if their voter registration deadline hasn't passed, or persuading them to vote early because once we get someone to vote early, they come off the rolls and if you are able to direct your attention to other people who might be a lower propensity voter, which is really important. I think it will be the deciding factor in this race right now.
COOPER: Erin, the former president was on something called the PBD Podcast, the episode was released today, Vice President Harris' race came up. I want to play a clip of that.
[20:20:10] (BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
PATRICK BET-DAVID, PBD PODCAST HOST: Kamala who was apparently Black. She's up 41.
TRUMP: What do you mean by apparently?
BET-DAVID: I mean, that's what they're telling us. You're supposed to believe she's Black and --
TRUMP: Oh, no, it's much better that -- no, see I would never say a thing like that, buy you said don't explain what do you mean -- no, I don't want to get in trouble.
BET-DAVID: Yes, but -- well, I mean --
TRUMP: I was going to throw it on your shoulders apparently, well no, you know, you could explain it because --
BET-DAVID: I'm very comfortable explaining it because overnight, you know, she's supposed to be Indian and then all of a sudden now it's Black but it's not landing with the average American.
So, if you look at --
TRUMP: And you think, Black men, that's why she's not doing well, because some people say that.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COOPER: Later in the podcast, Trump said Harris is Black but "a lot of people didn't know." I mean, again, is this all just baked in, I mean, does anything matter anymore? I mean, does anything really matter?
PERRINE: Let's have a little hope in our faces -- yes.
COOPER: I don't even know what my question was.
PERRINE: Don't be so sad, yes, I mean a lot of this is baked in but the reality is that the American people fully understand what they're getting with Donald Trump, they've been seeing this for over a decade, almost a decade now, to see that this is the guy that they have a choice to elect and they can see Kamala on the other side and for as much as Democrats talk about the good vibes and the good mood and the joy of Kamala's campaign, the American people aren't feeling that vibe themselves because this is still so neck and neck as a race.
And what we're talking about right now with Kamala trying to do these other avenues and these other opportunities to talk to voters. It's because she's still in persuasion, because she is so far behind the eight ball, she should be at the get out the vote phase of her campaign right now. But she's still trying to squeeze voters to say, consider me, not get to the polls for me.
Trump's team, while they're outsourcing a lot of what you're seeing for their ground game and knocking on doors and talking to voters. They've been in that 'get out the vote motion' for longer than Democrats.
Now, you can talk about who has the longer history, about the better 'get out the vote' efforts here. But this is crunch time and Kamala being so far behind to come into the main part of the race, this really could be so detrimental to her in this final stretch.
COOPER: Ashley, is that how you see it?
ALLISON: Well I think the way I talk about persuasion in a different way, I think you have to persuade people to actually vote even if they know who you're going to vote for.
So, my friend, Bakari Sellers always says this is not going to necessarily be a decision between Democrats deciding if they're going to vote for Kamala Harris or Donald Trump, but rather they're going to vote for Kamala Harris or stay at home on the couch?
So I do think that she is still in persuasion, but I think it's okay that she is still in persuasion and also simultaneously doing 'get out to vote' because that means she still can add pieces to her coalition. Whereas Donald Trump has maxed out, he has to get his voters to come out because people are not moving over from her to him. They are more likely to move over from him to her. And if she can also increase turnout. I think this could be not just a close race, but I think it could go in her favor.
NAVARRO: Can I just finish what I'm saying that if we're going to talk about candidates changing color. We can start by talking about Donald Trump, who has gone from about being your color to now being burnt sienna, pumpkin spice.
COOPER: All right. Thanks, everybody.
More now on the state the vice president almost certainly needs to win. Shortly before airtime I spoke with Pennsylvania Democratic Governor Josh Shapiro.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
COOPER: Governor Shapiro, are you surprised the presidential race -- the polls are so close in Pennsylvania, Vice President Harris is underperforming it seems right now, the State's Democratic US Senate nominee, incumbent Bob Casey.
GOV. JOSH SHAPIRO (D-PA): Look, Anderson, every race in Pennsylvania is close. The last two presidential racers were settled by a point or less. So when you show a poll that shows it as a one-point race or an even race, we've come to expect that.
But listen, we've got two minutes left in the game and we got a better team on the floor. Certainly, a better floor captain and I'd rather be us than them.
We got to close strong. Kamala Harris is doing that. She's spending a ton of time in Pennsylvania and I think that's working to her benefit. COOPER: There is clearly a double-standard -- the former president
rarely give us specifics on anything. He repeats himself over and over, repeating things that he has said before without specifics.
There is a criticism of Vice President Harris that she has not given enough specifics, do you -- and there's certainly some issues that she has not given specifics on. Do you think that's something she needs to do?
SHAPIRO: I think, you're correct to point out the double standard here, I would take it one step further, Anderson, not only has the vice president laid out specifics on how she's going to cut taxes for middle-class families, cut taxes for small business, help entrepreneurs be able to get ahead more effectively in our Commonwealth and across our country.
But Donald Trump not only is devoid of specifics, the guy just lies all the time. I mean, you can go a 24-hour news cycle and he tells three different stories. So, not only has the vice president laid out specifics, but on the other side, you have a guy who doesn't put out the details and lies repeatedly over and over and over again.
[20:25:26]
I think what we've seen across parts of America is folks have kind of gotten numb to the lies. And I think it is important that he be called out for those lies. And it is important to weigh the fact that Kamala Harris has put forth those specifics and Donald Trump continues to fail to.
COOPER: Vice President Harris has been asked in two large venues, most notably last night on Fox, how she would be different essentially then President Biden. She said last night that she's Kamala Harris and that she would not be just an extension of the Biden administration and she would bring her own experiences to the table, but there's no specific thing she has pointed to as wishing had been done in the last four years that they didn't do.
There's nothing specific she has said that makes -- that said she's different than Biden on this. Do you think she -- do you believe she's different than the Biden administration? Do you have a sense of how?
SHAPIRO: For those who are undecided, this is a clear choice between Kamala Harris and Donald Trump, not Kamala Harris and Joe Biden.
Kamala Harris is someone who wants to lift up this nation, who understands that no matter what you look like, where you come from, who you love or who you pray to, there is a place for you here versus Donald Trump, someone who continuously tries to create others in our society, continues to put people down, continues to attack communities, including communities in Pennsylvania like Charlotte.
You know I'm here in Michigan campaigning on the blue wall bus tour with Governor Gretchen Whitmer and Governor Tony Evers and others.
You know, in Michigan Donald Trump has attacked Detroit, over and Wisconsin. He attacked Milwaukee. And of course he routinely attacks Philadelphia. Donald Trump is someone who keeps attacking our fellow Americans, who keeps whining about himself, who keeps putting people down.
And so, I would just say to Donald Trump stop shit-talking, America. Stop talking us down. And the American people have a clear choice in this race it is between Donald Trump and Kamala Harris, not Kamala Harris and Joe Biden.
COOPER: I don't know that I've heard a governor say 'shit-talking" before, by the way, I just --
SHAPIRO: Well but, Anderson, there's a serious point behind that and I chose that word purposefully, you have a person who wants to lead this nation, who keeps attacking large segments of it, who keeps putting people down, who thinks that his way of getting over the top electorally is by holding someone else down.
This is -- you know, he's a bully and the kind of lessons that we teach it our children to love thy neighbor, to not attack others. These are the basic simple lessons the parents trying to instill in our kids that Donald Trump can't even meet.
This guy wants to be the leader of this nation, the leader of the free world and he can't pass the basic test we set for our kids. I'm sick and tired of him talking people down and attacking our fellow Americans.
COOPER: You're in Michigan as you said, there are concerns that members of Michigan's large Arab-American population may sit the election out in protest of US policy in the Middle East. Do you think the death of the Hamas leader, the terrorist, Yahya Sinwar changes the political equation somehow?
SHAPIRO: Well, look, let's speak truth about who Sinwar was. He was a terrorist with blood on his hands, including the blood of Americans. He was the mastermind behind October 7th, the attack that left 1,200 people dead in Israel, 250 and hostages ripped from their homes and taken to Gaza. Women who were sexually violated in the most brutal ways.
That's who Sinwar was and I hope that there is some measure of peace that can come to those victims' families, those people who now know that Sinwar is dead.
I also hope that this can be a moment where there can be a pause and a reassessment and the hostages can come home immediately and the war can end and we can begin a new in the Middle East, ideally, in my opinion, with the Middle East, that leads to a two-state solution.
With Sinwar dead and behind us, maybe just maybe there can be this momentary pause where these hostages can come home, and the war can end. But make no mistake, Sinwar, was a bad guy. He was a terrorist and he had blood on his hands and I am glad that he is dead and no longer in a position where he can wreak havoc across the globe and take more lives. COOPER: Governor Josh Shapiro, thank you for your time.
SHAPIRO: Thank you, Anderson.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
COOPER: A quick programming note. The former president is now a bit less than an hour away from his solo appearance at the Al Smith Memorial Dinner here in New York. Live pictures. We'll bring you his remarks when they happen.
Just ahead tonight, CNN's Donie O'Sullivan talks to people who believe that Donald Trump was chosen by God to lead this country.
Coming up next, we'll also have more on the killing of Hamas' Yahya Sinwar and the stunning up-close video of his final moments alive.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
COOPER: The Israeli military confirmed today that Yahya Sinwar, the terror leader of Hamas and mastermind behind the October 7th attack in Israel, has been finally killed. Sinwar's actions not only led to the massacre of more than 1,200 people, but also the kidnappings of more than 250 others on October 7th. An action he knew would provoke a war with Israel and the deaths of many Palestinian civilians in Gaza whom he and other Hamas leaders and fighters had been hiding among.
[20:35:03]
The IDF released a video today showing Sinwar's last moments. In this edited clip, a drone enters a damaged building. Sinwar, you see him sitting on a chair. His body is positioned away from the drone. He appears to be looking toward the drone, staring at it. He also appears to be alone.
According to the IDF, Sinwar had been shot in the hand, and the drone video appears to show him unable to move. He then throws what the IDF highlights as a piece of wood in the direction of the drone. The IDF later discovered his body in the rubble of the building.
And we want to warn you what you're about to see is graphic. The building was shelled by an Israeli tank yesterday. After sending soldiers in on foot, the military was able to run DNA tests and use dental records to confirm it was, in fact, Sinwar's body.
Joining me now is New York Times Foreign Affairs Columnist Thomas Friedman, author "From Beirut to Jerusalem." How significant is this, Tom?
THOMAS L. FRIEDMAN, NEW YORK TIMES FOREIGN AFFAIRS COLUMNIST: Well, this is obviously huge, Anderson, because Yahya Sinwar planned this war, led this war, directed this war. Without him, there's really only one significant Hamas leader left in Gaza. That's his brother, Mohammed. And it is necessary, but not sufficient, condition to end this war and put Israelis and Palestinians on a new trajectory. COOPER: What would that actually look like? I know Secretary Blinken, you know, has been doing a lot of diplomacy. He said the United States will, quote, "redouble its efforts with partners to end this conflict." I know you've reported on this. What do you see as a possible way forward?
FRIEDMAN: Well, basically, Secretary Blinken, the leader of Saudi Arabia, Mohammed bin Salman, the leadership in the United Arab Emirates, the Palestinian Authority, they've all basically, for the last month, been in a kind of quiet dialogue to create a morning-after scenario for Gaza.
It's a multi-step process, Anderson. Step one, you get President Mahmoud Abbas of the Palestinian Authority to appoint someone like a Salam Fayyad, a high-quality, respected, non-corrupt leader to be the prime minister of a completely reformed Palestinian Authority.
Step two, you get that Palestinian Authority to issue an invitation to the UAE, Egypt, other Arab states, European countries, to create an international peacekeeping force, of which PA soldiers would be members, to basically phase into Gaza as Israel phases out and take over security there.
Stage three, Israel commits to a dialogue with the Palestinian Authority on a two-state solution, which creates then the context for Saudi Arabia to normalize relations with Israel, and open the way, basically, for relations between Israel and the wider Muslim world.
Obviously, there are a million things that can go wrong here --
COOPER: Right.
FRIEDMAN: -- but there is a plan. It's being seriously discussed. The question is, will -- for it to succeed, Netanyahu really would have to agree to blow up his cabinet, to replace his -- several of the far- right, crazy, lunatic, messianic members of his cabinet who play key roles in it, replace them with more centrist politicians, and to take a risk on a peace with Saudi Arabia, but also realizing that somehow Israel has got to fill the vacuum in Gaza.
COOPER: Yes.
FRIEDMAN: It's either going to be filled by remnants of a Hamas, it's either going to be a Hamas insurgency, a permanent Israeli occupation, or an Arab peacekeeping force that paves the way for a two-state solution.
COOPER: I mean, Netanyahu has done everything possible over the last many years to undercut the Palestinian Authority and Mahmoud Abbas's authority, and actually funding -- allowing money to go to Hamas in order to keep the possibility of a two-state solution off the table. Do you -- I mean, do you think he sees this as a -- I mean, do you think there's a possibility that he would go along with this?
FRIEDMAN: Yes. COOPER: Because obviously, anything that Saudi Arabia would be involved is, they would only do it if this was to, on paper, lead to a two-state solution.
FRIEDMAN: He has designated his closest adviser, strategic minister, minister of strategy or strategic affairs, Ron Dermer, former ambassador to Washington, to engage in this dialogue with the administration, with the UAE, and with others. So he's clearly, you know, probing it. But he has a history of probing things and not closing them.
So -- but all I can say to you, Anderson, is that Israel now has achieved a major military victory in Gaza, but it remains a tactical victory. To translate that tactical victory into a strategic victory that gives real security for Israelis and Palestinians and brings this thing to some kind of ending, he's going to have to take a risk.
[20:40:04]
He's going to have to prove that he is the Churchillian figure that he claims to be. Call me dubious, but at the same time, I'm asking myself, without him taking that step, how does Israel translate this tactical victory into a strategic victory?
COOPER: Yahya Sinwar, I mean, I saw some people online portraying him as, you know, a sort of a messianic figure. Just to be clear, I mean, not only did he take part in this terror on October 7th and other terrorist acts, he also killed a lot of Palestinians. I mean, he was head of the internal security for Hamas.
I remember being in Gaza years ago and seeing Palestinians being dragged through the streets on the backs of motorcycles, chained to, you know, the back of a motorcycle, their bodies dragged through the streets, who were viewed as collaborators. He was the guy who was executing a lot of Palestinians.
FRIEDMAN: Look, I mean, there had been two uprisings against Hamas in 2019 and 2021 among Gazans. They were called, you know, We Want to Live. That was the name of the uprising. So this was an Islamo-fascist organization. And yes, he had his supporters, obviously.
But over the last year, given what happened in Gaza, because basically, Anderson, what Sinwar did, it was a human sacrifice. He attacked Israel in a way that he knew would produce this reaction. He provided no warning, no shelter for any of his people in light of the Israeli onslaught.
He, in effect, traded, you know, thousands of Palestinian lives for the next generation on TikTok to win the support of the next generation. By the way, it worked.
COOPER: Yes.
FRIEDMAN: It was a very effective strategy, if you're interested in public affairs for Palestinians. But if you're interested in a state for Palestinians, it's been a disaster. COOPER: Yes.
FRIEDMAN: And my only regret, frankly, is that it was Palestinians who didn't, in the end, finish him off, but, in fact, Israelis.
COOPER: Yes. Tom Friedman, thank you, as always.
Next, our Donie O'Sullivan talks with some Trump supporters who believe he was anointed by God to be president. We'll be right back.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[20:46:10]
COOPER: The former president has long enjoyed strong support, obviously, from evangelical voters. But tonight, as CNN's Donie O'Sullivan speaks with two pastors, it's very different views of the former president, and some Trump supporters who see him as a divine messenger sent by God.
(BEGIN VIDEO TAPE)
DOTTI DAVIDSON, TRUMP SUPPORTER: You have to take God and put him back into the very moral fiber of this country. Otherwise, we will continue to see the decay, just like Rome. Rome fell, and so will America.
(MUSIC)
SEAN FEUCHT, TRUMP SUPPORTER: -- they said, why are you going to all these battleground states? Because I said, it's not just a battleground politically, it's a battleground in the spirit.
DONIE O'SULLIVAN, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Do you think Trump was sent from God?
DAVIDSON: I do. I do.
O'SULLIVAN: Tell me more about that.
DAVIDSON: It was divine intervention. God calls people, and they're not perfect people. So he has to call someone that's going to take a stand. And that's what Trump is doing. He is fulfilling his calling.
O'SULLIVAN (voice-over): It's a few weeks before Election Day, and Christian singer, preacher, and Trump supporter Sean Feucht is here outside the North Carolina state capitol.
FEUCHT: We're going to plead the blood over the capitol.
O'SULLIVAN (voice-over): Feucht didn't mention Trump's name at this event at all, but the political undertones were very clear.
FEUCHT: We plead the blood of Jesus. Your blood speaks a better word than whatever is happening inside that building.
O'SULLIVAN: You're traveling to every state capitol? FEUCHT: Yes.
O'SULLIVAN (voice-over): Just tell us the significance of that.
FEUCHT: It feels like it's more acceptable a lot of times in capitals to have a drag queen reading just to kids rather than Christians worshiping. And so my heart is like, hey, let's empower people in the church to understand the significance of what happens in that building.
Really, we're, in many ways, putting the politicians on notice in that building. Hey, the church is alive. We're aware. And, you know, there are things that we're going to stand for and things that we're going to stand against.
O'SULLIVAN: There's no official religion of this country, you would agree?
DAVIDSON: The religion that this country was based on is Christianity. I mean, for anyone to go and dispute that, they're completely ignorant and blind.
O'SULLIVAN: But you believe in freedom in a religion?
DAVIDSON: Oh, yes.
O'SULLIVAN: People can be --
DAVIDSON: People can be of different faiths and practice as they wish. But this is a Christian country and this is what it was founded on. And that is what makes America so phenomenally great.
BEN MARSH, PASTOR, FIRST ALLIANCE CHURCH 4: What does that mean, though? America is a Christian country. We have a constitution that is rooted in liberal democracy. You don't arrive at the American Constitution with just the Bible, unless you're buying a Trump Bible, which already has the American Constitution in it.
This was the flag that went into the Senate when the doors were broken.
O'SULLIVAN (voice-over): I first met Pastor Ben Marsh almost four years ago.
MARSH: The Christian flag.
O'SULLIVAN (voice-over): After I saw this sermon that was posted online where he explains the role of Christianity in January 6.
MARSH: They thought they were doing the work of God because pastors and leaders have lied to them.
O'SULLIVAN (voice-over): Marsh says equating Christianity and American patriotism the way some of the Trump movement do is dangerous.
MARSH: It can create a cult-like attitude towards the leaders that are there. Because they're no longer just, oh, that's the right guy, I like his policies. Now it's, oh, Jesus has chosen that person. So we have to follow that person to wherever they go.
O'SULLIVAN (voice-over): What Pastor Marsh is describing is Christian nationalism.
FEUCHT: I believe that's a term that's been weaponized to kind of try to put Christians into a corner, right, where we don't exercise our faith in the public square.
O'SULLIVAN (voice-over): But Pastor Marsh disagrees. He's worried that Christian nationalism could lead to more violence.
[20:50:05]
MARSH: We are in a time when political violence is just kind of the air that we're breathing. And people are so afraid, it comes back to fear. So Trump supporters looking at Democrats, if they win, they're going to commit all these atrocities.
You have Christian leaders that are saying, they're going to lock you up. They're going to take away your pulpits. Just rampant lies.
DONALD TRUMP (R), PRESIDENTIAL NOMINEE: Promoting the God Bless The USA Bible.
O'SULLIVAN (voice-over): Far from distancing himself from Christian nationalism, Trump has embraced this. Even selling a $60 Bible complete with the founding documents.
MARSH: You brought me a Trump Bible, God Bless The USA, and then we say the grace of the Lord Jesus Christ be with you all. Amen. And then all of a sudden you have the Declaration of Independence. What's the implication there, Donie? That that government has been set in place to enact the will of Christ somehow? Honestly, it breaks my heart.
O'SULLIVAN: What about people who say you're overreacting? I love my country. I'm a Christian. I love the Bible. I love the founding documents. What's so bad about putting them together in one book?
MARSH: I think what's so bad about this, not just this Bible, but the whole movement, is it is enticing people to do things that really aren't Christian, that make them feel like they're doing something that's Christian. You know, all this partisan nonsense, and it's all designed to make people think that they're doing something for Jesus when they're really not.
They're doing something for Trump.
FEUCHT: We're not here to witness a failing nation. We're here to see God break in.
(END VIDEO TAPE)
COOPER: And Donie O'Sullivan joins us now. I mean, how does Christian nationalism play in with the wider election denialism movement? O'SULLIVAN (on-camera): Yes, I mean, it's really an integral part of it. And as you saw, as Pastor Marsh mentioned there, January 6, there was a lot of people under Christian flags, using Christian iconography, going into the Capitol.
Look, as you heard one lady said there, Trump was sent from God, divine intervention. If you really believe that, and then if you're also convinced that if he loses, and it was taken, stolen from him, then it's easy to see how that could fuel something --
COOPER: Yes.
O'SULLIVAN (on-camera): -- like violence.
COOPER: All right. Donie O'Sullivan, thanks so much. Appreciate it.
Coming up next, with early voting now underway in North Carolina, how voters in areas devastated by Hurricane Helene are still managing to cast ballots.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[20:56:38]
COOPER: Early voting kicked off today in North Carolina. More than 209,000 ballots cast so far, approaching record numbers despite hurricane damage in the western part of the state. Even in those storm-ravaged counties, just four out of 80 planned voting sites failed to open.
Our Miguel Marquez reports.
(BEGIN VIDEO TAPE)
MIGUEL MARQUEZ, CNN SENIOR NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Only the toughest vehicles.
RUS ROBISON, NORTH CAROLINA STORM VICTIM: This is a good road we're on right now.
MARQUEZ: This is a good road. This is a really good road.
MARQUEZ (voice-over): Can access some areas of storm-ravaged North Carolina. Rus Robison has been helping out, doing anything and everything since day one.
ROBISON: Brush cutting, landslide clearing.
MARQUEZ (voice-over): Immediate needs met. Now a big new need, figuring out how to vote in an area cut off by the most severe storm damage.
ROBISON: Those that want to go, I'll 100 percent be able to get them there.
MARQUEZ: Why? ROBISON: To vote. But there will be communities that probably some people don't get to vote that want to vote.
MARQUEZ (voice-over): Water swept through Jeff Auletta's home on the Cane River in Yancey County.
JEFF AULETTA, NORTH CAROLINA STORM VICTIM: We would like to early vote if we can get in. We might need an all-terrain vehicle, but we will get in to vote.
MARQUEZ (voice-over): Yancey is one of 25 North Carolina counties plus Cherokee tribal areas in the disaster zone where election rules have changed. 1.3 million mostly conservative Tar Heel voters live there. With over 7.7 million registered voters statewide this year, every vote critical. It's a state Trump won in 2020 by just over 74,000 votes.
MARQUEZ: How will you actually vote?
AVIN LEDFORD, NORTH CAROLINA STORM VICTIM: I will go to one of the voting stations in town. I have a truck there so I can get in and out. It's a little difficult, but I can.
MARQUEZ: And nothing will keep you from voting?
BILL MERZ, NORTH CAROLINA STORM VICTIM: No, nothing.
MARQUEZ (voice-over): Bill and Diane Merz, huge supporters of Donald Trump, have concerns about voting nationwide. Here at home, they totally trust their vote will count.
B. MERZ: She's got an absentee ballot, but I'll probably go in and vote. If I have to, I'll go to town. I'll hitchhike if I have to.
MARQUEZ (voice-over): With partisan anger still simmering over Trump's 2020 loss, new fears, changes to election laws approved by the state's bipartisan election board, among other things, allowing displaced voters to receive absentee ballots at a different address.
DIANE MERZ, NORTH CAROLINA STORM VICTIM: I'm concerned that this relaxing of some of the rules that they have is also going to invite, you know, fraud into the system. And I'm worried about the people just being able to vote.
MARQUEZ (voice-over): The extreme storm claiming more than 230 lives so far here in North Carolina, around 80 are still missing. And now, with winter coming, despite all the misery, something surprising.
MARQUEZ: This somehow gives you hope?
ROBISON: Absolutely.
MARQUEZ: For the country?
ROBISON: Absolutely. Something that I worry about a lot. As if we could ever get together again as a country, as a people, you know, and get pass this partisan divide, or it definitely gives me hope that this has encourages that.
(END VIDEO TAPE)
MARQUEZ (on-camera): After all the horrors that we have seen across North Carolina, we did not expect to hear that sort of bit of hope that we heard from Rus up in Yancey County, which has been an hour and a half from where we are right now. This is Asheville, the Biltmore Village.
Still a long way to go. There is a lot of progress. But we saw precincts today jam-packed.
[12:55:03]
Neither hell nor high water is going to keep North Carolinians from voting in this election.
COOPER: Yes.
MARQUEZ (on-camera): Anderson?
COOPER: It's so awesome what he's doing, helping people out. And as you said, he's been doing that for --
MARQUEZ (voice-over): Weeks.
COOPER: Yes, for weeks now. Incredible.
Miguel, thank you. I'm so glad you're there.
MARQUEZ (voice-over): Incredible to see it. Great to ride along.
COOPER: Yes.
MARQUEZ (voice-over): You got it.
COOPER: Yes. Thank you.
The news continues right now. The Source with Kaitlan Collins starts now. I'll see you tomorrow.
