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Anderson Cooper 360 Degrees

A 2019 Report Warned Of Security Shortcomings In French Quarter, Vegas Suspect Wrote His Actions Were "Wakeup Call" For Country's Ills; DHS, FBI Warned Of Potential "Copycat Attacks" After New Orleans Deaths; New York Judge Upholds Trump's Felony Conviction; U.S. Surgeon General Calls For Cancer Warning Labels On Alcohol. Aired 8-9p ET

Aired January 03, 2025 - 20:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

HARRY ENTEN, CNN SENIOR DATA ANALYST: My father was a very interesting sort of gentleman. But it you look at sales of nonalcoholic beer, wine and spirits, look at that jump by nearly $200 million from 2022 to 2023, and then by a nearly another $200 million from 2023 to 2024.

I'm not going to be surprised if nonalcoholic beer, wine and spirits sales top $1 billion yearly quite soon. It's quite the trend line.

ERIN BURNETT, CNN HOST: It is and that's the same epic thing that you're saying in terms of perception. It is really amazing to see something like that happen in that kind of an industry.

ENTEN: It's just -- we're living in interesting times.

BURNETT: We are.

Well, Harry, thank you and thanks to all of you. AC360 starts now.

[20:00:40]

ANDERSON COOPER, CNN HOST, "ANDERSON COOPER: 360": Good evening again from New Orleans, where the focus tonight is on why this area, the French Quarter continue to be what one security expert called a perfect target, five years after his firm warned officials that Bourbon Street, just behind us, was especially vulnerable to a vehicular ramming attack.

Early Wednesday morning, a killer in a pickup truck exploited that vulnerability police say, by simply driving onto the sidewalk to get around a police vehicle that was blocking the street, that was basically all it took. Now 14 people are dead, dozens more are hurt, some badly.

We also learned late today how all of this could have been much worse. A statement from the FBI and ATF says the killer set fire to the short-term rental location where he was staying to destroy evidence, some of which included ingredients for bomb making material. You're seeing a doorbell video of him unloading his truck outside.

Now, that statement also included an FBI assessment that the killer intended to use a transmitter found in his truck to set off the two IEDs that he had placed previously on Bourbon Street.

Also tonight, were learning more about the man who blew himself up in a cybertruck outside the Trump International Hotel in Las Vegas. And it is important to say that CNN's Josh Campbell is reporting tonight, authorities have now assessed that there is no connection between that and what happened here.

Now, this is newly released video of Matthew Livelsberger, the active duty Green Beret at a charging station en route. Today, officials described him as troubled and self-destructive.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SPENCER EVANS, SPECIAL AGENT IN CHARGE, FBI LAS VEGAS DIVISION: It ultimately appears to be a tragic case of suicide involving a heavily decorated combat veteran who is struggling with PTSD and other issues.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

COOPER: Now, officials also said he left behind notes, including this one, and I'm quoting from it now, "This was not a terrorist attack. It was a wakeup call." The note continued. "Americans only pay attention to spectacles and violence. What better way to get my point across than a stunt with fireworks and explosives."

We're going to have more on that attack later. A live report from Las Vegas.

First, Randi Kaye with more on the security shortcomings here in New Orleans that officials were warned about five years ago, as well as the effort to address them, which sadly were not completed in time.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

RANDI KAYE, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice over): Keeping Bourbon Street safe for New Year's Eve revelers was priority number one. So what happened?

ANNE KIRKPATRICK, NEW ORLEANS POLICE DEPARTMENT SUPERINTENDENT: This particular terrorist drove around onto the sidewalk and got around the hard target. We did indeed have a plan, but the terrorist defeated it.

KAYE (on camera): I'm at the corner of Bourbon and Canal Street, and this is where the city parked that police vehicle on New Year's Eve, what they refer to as the hard target. But the suspect managed to jump the curb with his truck maneuvering around that police vehicle, then raced down Bourbon Street.

KAYE (voice over): The city's more permanent barriers are bollards like these, portable steel structures that were designed to prevent vehicles from entering Bourbon Street. They move up and down and can either lay flat or be raised to close the street to traffic when needed to protect pedestrians.

Despite warnings years ago that this area was at risk for terrorism, including vehicular attacks, the bollards were not used. When the attack happened, the bollards were under construction and in the process of being repaired.

JIMMY COTHRAN, WITNESS: Those barricades were not up, period. They had the flimsy orange ones that you could just push over with your finger. We actually thought it was kind of odd.

KAYE (voice over):The city's explanation.

MAYOR LATOYA CANTRELL, NEW ORLEANS: Bollards were not up because they are near completion, with the expectation of being completed of course, by Super Bowl.

KAYE (voice over): All of this despite an alarming report from a private security firm in 2019 that warned the risk of terrorism in the French Quarter remained highly possible, while moderately probable. The report warned specifically about vehicle ramming and recommended fixing the barriers immediately.

KAYE (on camera): A source familiar with that 2019 report told CNN that New Orleans does own the type of temporary barrier that could have been used on New Year's Eve to block access to Bourbon Street, but decided not to use it. Now, the New Orleans City Council is trying to figure out why Bourbon Street was left vulnerable to attack.

[20:05:09]

JEAN-PAUL MORRELL, NEW ORLEANS COUNCILMEMBER-AT-LARGE: We have had some contradictory messages from internally as far as when the work was awarded and when it should have started. We are going to do our own deep dive investigation over the coming weeks to go into that.

KAYE (voice over): This Department of Public Works plan obtained by CNN, shows work began on the bollards on November 18th. This photo from a December 19th update shows the area at Bourbon and Canal Streets under construction. That is exactly where the suspect entered and began his attack.

The update also says bollard installation was, "happening at Canal and Bourbon." According to this plan, the work was supposed to continue through January.

JOSE LIERAS, WITNESS: I don't think they should let any vehicles at all. It should always be blocked off at nighttime because something like this could happen.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

COOPER: And Randi Kaye joins me now. What is the city saying about keeping pedestrians safe moving forward?

KAYE: Well, the police chief, Anderson here is saying that they are going to harden the target around Bourbon Street, and that would include raising the existing barriers, also bringing in some heavy equipment. And then they also say that they're going to add barriers to the sidewalks to keep them from, from another car possibly going down the sidewalk and jumping the curb like this suspect did. But the police chief is also saying that having done all that, they believe it will be safe for people to come here for the Super Bowl next month, also for Mardi Gras in March. But then, of course, you have people, Anderson, who say this really isn't possible because of course, there are a lot of pedestrians on Bourbon Street, but there's also a lot of cross streets, as you know, from just walking up and down. And she said, it's impossible to put these bollards stations at every single cross street because there's so much traffic. So she just doesn't think it's feasible.

COOPER: Randi Kaye, thanks very much. I appreciate it.

Joining us now is Don Aviv, CEO of Interfor International, which is the security firm behind that 2019 report.

Don, I appreciate you joining us.

As we mentioned, your report specifically warned about vehicle ramming and recommended that the bollards be fixed and improved immediately. Do you know what happened after you issued that report?

DON AVIV, CEO OF INTERFOR INTERNATIONAL: It's a great question. I wish I had that answer. Unfortunately, once we issued our report, we never heard from them again.

COOPER: Do you think this attack, I mean, it's a tough question, but was it avoidable if your recommendations would have been heeded?

AVIV: Absolutely. This type of attack is absolutely avoidable. There have been over 200 vehicular attacks in the past 25 years around the world, and each one of them can be avoided.

As you saw in the video and as you saw in your in your images, there was plenty of room for a vehicle to jump the curb and to go down on the sidewalk and archer barrier, or one of those vehicle barriers could have stopped that or mitigated that attack easily.

COOPER: Can you just try to give more context when it comes to these barriers, these bollards and what you found when speaking to people in the French Quarter before the report was issued?

AVIV: Sure. We spoke to countless individuals in and around the French Quarter, and a lot of them had mixed ideas or explanations as to why the barriers were not working or up at the time, they range from sometimes the Mardi Gras beads would break the pneumatic systems, which we don't really believe, or they were kept down for ease of transport and deliveries for services for the hotels and restaurants.

But at the end of the day, all you really need is to deploy a simple device, such as an archer barrier on a sidewalk or in the path of where a potential vehicle borne attack would come from.

And they -- I mean, they knew where the where the police car should go. So it's a simple matter of just putting an archer barrier on the sidewalks.

COOPER: Who's ultimately in charge? As you're understanding, in securing the French Quarter?

AVIV: That's a great -- a very good question. We -- during our 2019 inspection of the French Quarter, we identified over 11 -- around 11 to 12 different police and security agencies and organizations that are responsible for securing the French Quarter. And as you can imagine, this creates a little bit of a fiefdom scenario. The communication wasn't great between all the organizations.

And so ultimately, NOPD, the New Orleans Police Department, should have supremacy and command and control over the entirety of the French Quarter.

But because of a lack of resources, you end up having a scenario where a different police department will handle one area and NOPD will handle the rest. So, it becomes kind of a disjointed effort, unlike other major cities.

COOPER: You know, it seems like there's a lot of questions about whether, like, what work was being done, how long was work being done on these bollards, why was it taking so long? How long should it take to -- I mean, how long would it theoretically take to really repair and fix this?

AVIV: It should not take long at all. As soon as the contract is awarded, contractors can come in and tear up the ground, place it. It's like any type of refurb of any street. It does not take this long.

Now, to be fair, I can't speak to what's happened since 2019, but I would say that many of these issues that we identified back then appear to exist today. So, that gap is significant and it should not have taken this long.

[20:10:17]

COOPER: And I just want to point out, in 2016, there was the vehicle attack in Nice, which really kind of put this on the radar of a lot of security personnel. We've just seen an increase, I mean, since that time and since 2019, certainly there has been case after case of vehicle attacks and, and you know, groups like ISIS promoting vehicle attacks.

AVIV: Absolutely, listen, anyone who can drive can become a weapon. I mean, that's as simple as it is. So, this is the weapon, the vector of choice for a number of terrorists and just individuals who are clearly mentally unwell.

So, you know, a week ago or two weeks ago, during the Christmas time period, we had an attack in Germany. We had an attack in Germany a couple of years ago. This happens so often, unfortunately, too often. And it could also be an accidental scenario in which someone who loses control over a vehicle can drive into a crowd and also cause harm.

I mean, this would never happen in a place like New York City where if you think about the ball drop during New York New Year's Eve, you can't even get close to that area. Anywhere there's a concentration, a large concentration of pedestrians, there should be a ring of hardened facilities and protection around them.

COOPER: Don Aviv, I appreciate your expertise. Thank you very much.

With me here is Louisiana Lieutenant Governor Billy Nungesser. Lieutenant Governor, thank you for being with us. I'm sorry it is under these circumstances. Who messed up here? Who do you blame?

LT. GOV. BILLY NUNGESSER (R-LA): The mayor. The mayor and her team failed miserably. You know, today I sent out a video of the balusters in front of Jackson Square, historical Jackson Square.

Two years we've been asking to get them replaced. I didn't let that out to the public because we didn't want people to know you could drive through that pedestrian wall, but today I released a video because two years we've been trying to get them fixed.

You could have put temporary cement barriers in place for the Sugar Bowl. So I'm outraged that no one knew these things were removed and they had no protection.

COOPER: It seems that there was this report in 2019. I mean, it seems like a lot of -- this has been raised time and again.

NUNGESSER: Look, this administration in the city has failed miserably on everything. We had to get the governor who put a State Police troop in the Quarter because prior to this event, crime was taking over the Quarter.

In the last six months, it's gotten better since the State Police have had a headquarters in the Quarter really cracking down on crime. Because the lack of the mayor's leadership, it's just gotten worse.

And to know this now, rest assured, I have no doubt the governor is going to intervene and there will be protection for the Super Bowl throughout this city, but it's just unthinkable that her team has dropped the ball, that this was allowed to happen.

COOPER: The city has now put these temporary archer barriers in place, the block cars from accessing the sidewalk on Bourbon Street, despite owning them, I mean, they didn't use them previously. And the New Orleans Police superintendent initially said she didn't even know the city actually had them.

NUNGESSER: That's unacceptable. How does a city with so many tourists and residents filling this street and the team she has in place for Homeland Security, for security, not have protected the French Quarter, the busiest street in the state and one of the busiest in the country? It's unacceptable.

COOPER: Do you think Bourbon Street should be permanently closed to vehicle traffic even during the day?

NUNGESSER: We made a proposal several years ago to her to manage the French Quarter separately, to make these streets, Royal, Bourbon pedestrian and the cross streets for vehicles with large cement pots down the middle to permanently make them residential, but at least to close them off.

And even with the balusters in the street, if you don't have a balcony post, you need those yellow things you saw put out today permanently on the sidewalks.

COOPER: Right, so, when do you think it's going to be in place here?

NUNGESSER: Well, I think the governor's going to take charge, just like he did by putting the State Police in the Quarter and putting new cameras up. Prior to the governor doing that, you'd have to go to a ballroom and hope the camera worked to catch a criminal.

The lack of security, of just protecting the citizens and visitors in this Quarter has gone on for many years, and unfortunately, it took a tragedy like this to bring to light the lack of leadership, or really just giving a care. I mean, it's -- I'm angry.

COOPER: All right, well, Lieutenant Governor Billy Nungesser, I appreciate your time.

NUNGESSER: Thank you. Thank you.

COOPER: New insight tonight into what may have motivated the decorated Green Beret to blow himself up in Las Vegas. More on what authorities revealed today from some of his own writings.

And later, a new ruling from the New York Judge who presided over the trial that made President-elect Donald Trump a convicted felon. How it affects the president-elect's sentencing now set for a week from today.

We'll be right back.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[20:19:30]

COOPER: As we reported at the top of the broadcast, officials today painted a much more detailed picture of the Green Beret, who shot himself before the cybertruck he was in, blew up outside the Trump Hotel in Las Vegas.

Now, some of that information comes from his own notes, which they revealed some of today. We quoted from one at the start of the broadcast. CNN's Natasha Chen joins us right now from Las Vegas with more.

So, I want to begin, Natasha, with the driver's writings. What did they tell us about or what did they say about why he did this, why he blew himself up in that vehicle?

[20:20:02]

NATASHA CHEN, CNN NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Hey, Anderson.

Just more than an hour ago today, the investigators in Las Vegas released the full transcript of two letters they believe were written by Livelsberger. These really go into detail about what he felt was wrong with American society. His grievances politically, culturally, in the society and he also talked about conflicts overseas. Specifically, he stated his support for President Trump and Elon Musk.

Now, earlier in the afternoon, investigators had taken a few excerpts from these writings to share with the media, and they hoped that doing so would provide a little bit of context for why he might have done this to help us understand his state of mind, let's read just a few of those excerpts here.

One of them says, "Time to wake up. We are being led by weak and feckless leadership, who only serv to enrich themselves." Another excerpt says, "Why did I personally do it now? I needed to cleanse my mind of the brothers I've lost and relieve myself of the burden of the lives I took."

And then another excerpt says, "We are the United States of America, the best country people to ever exist. But right now we are terminally ill and headed toward collapse."

So, Anderson, this provides just a little bit of insight into where his thinking was at when this happened.

COOPER: Well, what more do you know about his state of mind?

CHEN: Yes, it seems that he was diagnosed with depression last year. According to US officials, that he had visited military behavioral health services, which is nothing out of the ordinary. It's actually very much encouraged throughout the military. And he was deemed as not being a risk to hurt himself or others. And so there wasn't a red flag in that respect.

So, authorities are looking through all of this, looking through his records and just scratching the surface, they said, of all this data on his devices. They said there was a journal of activity for the ten days leading up to this explosion, and they are just getting through all of that right now -- Anderson.

COOPER: All right, Natasha Chen, thank you very much.

Joining us now is CNN chief law enforcement and intelligence analyst John Miller. Also, Joby Warrick, national security reporter for "The Washington Post" and author of the Pulitzer prize winning book "Black Flags: The Rise of ISIS".

John, first of all, in terms of the Las Vegas, what do you make of the writings that were released today? Not intended as a terror attack, he said, but rather, in his words, a wake-up call.

JOHN MILLER, CNN CHIEF LAW ENFORCEMENT AND INTELLIGENCE ANALYST: I mean, it is what we've been talking about really over the last 24 hours, which is this was an individual who was going through problems at home, family problems, who was going through depression related to his work as a special operator in some of the most dangerous places and situations, PTSD. But there's also a piece of paranoia in there. He communicates with another friend where he says, I believe I'm being followed by the FBI and DHS, and I may not be able to cross over to the Mexican border.

He thought he was under surveillance. He was talking about revealing things about US and Chinese drone programs, about civilian casualties that he was involved with in Afghanistan.

So, a lot of things in his life and experience were boiling over when he decided to take his own life and do it in this conflagration that was meant to get attention.

COOPER: And is it clear, I mean, was he -- do we know at this point, had he been -- did he actually have a diagnosis of PTSD and I know the FBI saying it's a -- what they're calling a tragic case of a suicide, was he formally diagnosed, do we know?

MILLER: Well, as Natasha told us, he was under treatment, I believe, by the medical staff in Germany. And their assessment was, yes, he's got problems. We're helping him kind of work through those problems. But he convinced them according to what our sources are telling CNN's people at the Pentagon that he was not a danger to himself or others, which, I think a lot of those special operators who don't want to be cast aside for psychological issues can be pretty experienced with, telling the doctors, no, I'm okay. I'm dealing with it.

COOPER: Joby, I want to ask you about the attack here in New Orleans. You wrote in "The Washington Post" today that attackers are more driven nowadays by personal failings than ideology. You said, "The suspects may have little or no direct contact with the Islamic state, yet the group is still a potent source of radicalization and a convenient excuse in the attacker's mind to justify violence."

[20:25:07]

I thought that was really interesting, you know, we learned that some of the Facebook postings that this guy made on in his vehicle, according to the FBI, on his way here, he talked about initially wanting to kill family members and friends of his, have some sort of a party and gather people together and kill them.

But then he was worried it wouldn't be portrayed as part of a larger battle between believers and nonbelievers. Do you think that idea of this is kind of a result of personal problems, and he latches on to, you know, this ISIS identification and this ideology as an offshoot of that?

JOBY WARRICK, NATIONAL SECURITY REPORTER, "WASHINGTON POST": Well, there's a lot we don't really know about this particular case, but it really does match up with the pattern that we've seen again and again and again.

We've looked at other cases. We looked at the Taylor Swift concert plot back in the summer, and you have individuals who have serious problems. This could be mental breakdowns, could be very deep personal problems. And in the case of these sort of ISIS-inspired attacks, the individual decides that, you know, I'm going to kind of attach my wagon to ISIS because ISIS is the world's easiest club to join. You don't have to be indoctrinated or recruited. You just have to commit an act of terrorism and attribute it to them, and they welcome you.

And that's what makes ISIS so dangerous, but it also means that anybody can do this and they can blame their problems and take out their personal frustrations on, you know, or blame it on ISIS or credit ISIS for their behavior.

COOPER: It's also interesting because, I mean, one, you know, when you hear he is -- I mean, the FBI was very clear in saying he was 100 percent inspired by ISIS, but that word "inspired by," it leaves a lot of room.

I think some people have this idea that, you know, there's a recruiter for ISIS who, you know, reaches out to this guy or somehow finds this guy, though that may happen in some cases. It certainly seems like this is one of those cases where this person is sort of self-inspired, self-motivated, looks online and just, you know, pledges allegiance in his own mind.

WARRICK: And that's more typical, Anderson, because, yes, there are some cases where, you know, ISIS coordinates, it helps plan sometimes provides weapons. We've seen this with ISIS-K in recent months, but more typically, it is someone who may reach out, may try to find ISIS, maybe he succeeds or maybe he doesn't, but he can certainly find their propaganda online.

He can find their videos. He can find instructions for making a bomb. He can get ideas about what other people have done in attacks, and that's valuable information if you're looking to commit a terrorist attack. And we think at minimum, these recent cases involve that kind of inspiration and that kind of sort of practical advice coming from ISIS' community.

COOPER: John, you have new reporting on this rare, organic compound that the attacker here in New Orleans used in his explosive devices. What do you know about this?

MILLER: Well, it's interesting because we haven't seen it used in the United States before. This is an explosive compound that you can make literally with kitchen utensils and supplies at home. It's the classic HME, homemade explosives, but it's a rarer recipe.

It is something that has appeared in instructional videos created by Hezbollah that have appeared in overseas forums. But it gets back to kind of the conundrum that Joby is talking about, which is ISIS promotes the idea that keep your attacks simple. A ramming attack is the simplest thing. You just need a vehicle, a foot to punch an accelerator, and a crowded street to drive down very fast. And yet take a look at Jabbar's tactics and techniques here.

He is combining the ramming attack. He's got secondary weapons, the firearms, which he shoots it out with police. He's got remote controlled devices that are attached to radio receivers in two separate IEDs on either end of the set that he's built for this carnage, and he's got this rare explosive compound that he could make at home and a bomb factory at an Airbnb where you see traces of this powder that was there, as well as traces of it found in filter paper at his home in Houston.

So, he put a lot more work into the explosive part of this than the ramming part of it. Luckily, because police engaged him in this gunfight immediately, he never got to press those buttons.

COOPER: And Joby, if the New Orleans attacker used this compound -- what -- I mean, does that raise questions to you about other people's involvement or ISIS involvement?

WARRICK: Well, not necessarily, because, as John said, that material is out there if you're diligent and you're really looking for it. We've looked at other cases where more typically there's this compound called TATP. It's kind of the ISIS go to. It's fairly simple to make because you can buy everything, you know in the hardware store and assemble it in your house.

And even with those instructions, we find that some of these, you know, radicalized individuals can't figure out how to do it. And in this case, you see someone who really put, you know, weeks, if not months of effort into this. And he may or may not have some help from the outside or instruction. But he sure did his homework, and he was sure planning to kill a lot of people. And at minimum, I think we can draw that conclusion just from the kind of bomb that he made.

COOPER: Yes, Joby Warrick, John Miller, thank you so much.

Coming up, we've got more on the attack here in New Orleans, including new information about the identities of some of those murdered here on Bourbon Street.

Plus, in separate news, the big announcement for the judge and the president-elect's hush money case. It involves his sentencing, whether he'll be the first, well, it involves the sentencing and we'll have the report on that.

Also tonight, the troubling link between cancer and alcohol. A new warning from the US Surgeon General, next.

[20:31:10]

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[20:35:13]

COOPER: Just ahead, we have new information on the identities of the 14 people killed here early Wednesday morning. And we'll talk to the brothers of one young man who came for a night out with friends and never made it home.

Right now, we do want to update you on what happened earlier today. The judge in the president-elect's hush money case upheld Mr. Trump's conviction. He's scheduled the sentencing for a week from today. Judge Juan Merchan also said that Mr. Trump will face no legal penalties. He was convicted in May of 34 counts of falsifying business records in relation to the effort to conceal an alleged affair with the adult film actress Stormy Daniels.

The president-elect has denied the affair and is still considering an appeal.

Joining me now is retired New York City criminal court judge, George Grasso, and former federal prosecutor and senior legal analyst, Jennifer Rodgers.

So Judge Grasso, I'm wondering what your reaction is to the ruling. Do you think Judge Merchan made the right decision?

GEORGE GRASSO. RETIRED NYC CRIMINAL COURT JUDGE: I absolutely do. And I would just like to say, I wouldn't necessarily agree with characterizing this as the judge indicating no legal penalties. What the judge did indicate is he telegraphed in the decision that he was prepared to sentence President-elect Trump to an unconditional discharge.

Now, while that sentence won't include incarceration or any ongoing specific obligation to the court, what it does do is it cements the felony verdict by the jury. And if it holds, it will ensure that Donald -- that President-elect Trump will be a convicted felon for the rest of his days. So that's a pretty potent decision.

Under the circumstances, I think it was kind of Solomon like. In the sense, on the one hand, the judge did what I just said he indicates he wants to do what I just said he's going to do. So he's standing behind the jury verdict. He's standing behind the rule of law. But on the other side of the coin, he is not imposing any penalty or obligations on President-elect Trump that would any way, shape or form interfere with the ongoing transition process.

Or interfere with his ability to become -- to do his full duties as commander in chief and president of the United States. Additionally, it opens up avenues of appeal for President-elect Trump, both in state court and federal court. So, I think there was something for everyone there, but most importantly, the judges standing behind the jury verdict, which is someone who was at that trial for all seven weeks. So over 20 witnesses testify and hundreds of documents and evidence, and I think it was a sound verdict based on the law. And for the judge to walk away from that verdict, I think would have been an injustice.

So I think the judge covered a lot of bases there.

COOPER: Jennifer, is it what you expected?

JENNIFER RODGERS, FORMER FEDERAL PROSECUTOR: Well, I don't know what I expected, Anderson, but I agree with Judge Grasso that it was the right thing to do. I might have expected, actually, Judge Merchan to sentence a fine, at least. There's no question that the writing was on the wall, that there was going to be no prison time and no supervision imposed. I thought he maybe could have imposed a fine, but I think this is cleaner, because what happens if you impose a fine and then President Trump refuses to pay it. Like, how do you go after the president for a part of a criminal sentence?

So, I think this is the better way to go. There's also no question that a fine would have meant nothing to President Trump anyway, because you can only fine him maybe 5,000, maybe as much as 170, but still that doesn't mean much to him. So, I think this was the right way to go, as Judge Grasso said.

COOPER: Judge, do you think that the central question of presidential immunity, which Judge Merchan and President-elect are clearly at odds over will ultimately end up back at the Supreme Court?

GRASSO: I absolutely do. I think that -- which is another reason why I think -- you know, I know that team Trump is probably going to do everything they can to delay this matter further and somehow obstruct the ability of Judge Merchan to actually do the sentencing on Friday. But I think, if they do that, and they, they succeed, it could be quite counterproductive for them because it would then still be, basically, the case would be in suspended animation. And the sentencing wouldn't come until sometime in 2029, assuming president- elect serves his four full years out as President of the United States.

Where now, with this sentence being imposed, it opens the door for a variety of appeals, including federal appeals. And I think as far as the Supreme Court is concerned, United States Supreme Court is concerned, President-elect Trump and his legal team may have a chance. Because there is some controversy, for example, of testimony of Hope Hicks regarding the conversations that she had with President-elect Trump when he was newly minted President Trump in 2017, that could potentially be used since that testimony was in front of the jury before the Supreme Court's immunity decision that could be used to potentially argue to the Supreme Court to set aside that verdict.

[20:40:45]

That's what I mean when I said the way Judge Merchan is handling this, you know, there's something in it for each side. There's something in it for the DA. But most particularly what the jury and what the jury did it for the rule of law. But there's something in it for team Trump because it opens up their appeals.

I don't think they're shot for appeal in state appellate court. That great. But I think in front of the Supreme Court, they may very well have a shot here.

COOPER: Right. Judge Grasso, I really appreciate your time tonight. Jennifer Rodgers as well.

Up next, the U.S. surgeon general, I don't know if you saw this, U.S. surgeon general issued a new advisory about alcohol and cancer. I don't think it's something a lot of people here on Bourbon Street are paying attention to tonight, but you might want to. We'll be right back with that.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[20:45:43]

COOPER: Though it might go unheeded here on Bourbon Street, the U.S. surgeon general is sounding the alarm about drinking and an increased cancer risk. In a new advisory, he links alcohol consumption to at least seven cancers, mouth, throat, voice box, esophagus, breast, liver, and colorectal cancer. He's calling for warning labels on bottles of alcoholic beverages, similar to those on cigarettes. I want to talk about it more with CNN Medical Analyst Dr. Leana Wen, an emergency physician and former Baltimore Health Commissioner.

Dr. Wen, it's good to have you back. What are your thoughts on this advisory? Do you think alcohol should come with warning labels?

DR. LEANA WEN, CNN MEDICAL ANALYST: Look, I think it's reasonable, Anderson, for the surgeon general to issue an advisory because when there is new evidence, you would expect that our nation's top doctor, that our scientific agencies change their recommendations. And in recent years, there has been emerging evidence that is linking excessive alcohol in particular, but also even moderate alcohol use to several types of cancers, including breast cancer, liver cancer, esophageal cancer, colorectal cancer. So I think it's good to give people that information.

Some people are not -- it's not going to change their habits at all, but some people, it might actually change what they do. So for example, the surgeon general cites studies that indicate a woman's lifetime risk of getting breast cancer if she drinks very little or not at all, is 11 out of a hundred. But if she drinks one glass of wine or some other alcoholic drink each day, her risk increases to 13 out of 100. And then it further increases to 15 out of 100 if she's drinking two alcoholic drinks a day.

And so I think some people will look at that and say, look, I have a family history of breast cancer. I want to reduce my risk in every way. And so I'm going to reduce my consumption of alcohol. So I see this as empowering people who may not know about the risk of cancer and alcohol to make better choices. But still, I think that the focus needs to be on cutting back on excessive alcohol, not for people who are drinking a glass here or there, but for people who are really drinking heavily on a regular ongoing basis.

COOPER: It is frustrating though, cause I mean, I remember a couple of years ago, you know, allegedly we were told about studies that claim moderate drinking one drink per day for women, two drinks per day for men could have positive impacts on cardiovascular health. I started actually drinking like a red wine every day for those very reasons. Now, I mean, I stopped doing that a while, long time ago, but, were those studies incorrect?

WEN: Yes, it's a really good question. It seems like the jury is still out on that question that the data are mixed, if anything, about whether there are any protective effects of alcohol. It's to the point though now, Anderson, where I really don't know of any medical professional who would say to somebody who isn't drinking, oh, you need to start drinking because it's good for your heart. There are so many other better ways to improve heart health than drinking. You could, for example, increase your physical activity or eat healthier foods or cut ultra-processed foods than to start drinking alcohol.

And again, I think the focus really needs to be on cutting excessive drinking. We know for example that binge drinking, which is for women drinking more than four alcoholic drinks on one occasion, for men drinking more than five or five or more alcoholic drinks on one occasion, binge drinking is associated with particular risks, including higher risk of accidents and injuries and drowning. But also your body is essentially bathed with alcohol all at once and it's toxic to organs. And so I think that medical professionals really are focused on people who are binge drinking, people who have alcohol use disorder, who think that alcohol is affecting their lives, They're unable to quit or experiencing negative impacts from alcohol in their social life, their work life, I think we have to do a lot more to help those individuals.

COOPER: You're a big believer in, like, a dry January, right?

WEN: Yes, I think that dry January, or the equivalent of dry ish January, or really, you can try this any time. There's also sober October, sober ish October. This could be --

COOPER: Dry ish?

WEN: Dry ish January. The more lenient version. The idea is simply that you want to reexamine your relationship with alcohol, and you can look at, for example, why is it that you're drinking? Are you drinking when you're sad or anxious? Are you trying to use alcohol as a way to medicate, in which case you might need to see a mental health professional to further help you?

[20:50:03]

Or are you trying to quit to -- or are you trying to reduce your alcohol, but you find that you can't, that you're getting the shakes, or that you just can't stop drinking? That again, maybe a sign that you need additional help. And I think some people may not be aware of how much they are drinking at once. And so trying something like a dry January or reduction of alcohol for a period of time, at least helps you reevaluate these factors. And some people find them, they really like what they feel with less alcohol, and maybe that can help them to reduce consumption, too.

COOPER: Yes. Dr. Leana Wen, thanks so much. I appreciate it.

Coming up, more on the terror attack in New Orleans. New information from the city's coroner about the identity -- the identities of some of those who were killed here. Plus, I spoke with you -- with Matthew Tenedorio's brothers. Matthew was killed here on Bourbon Street. He worked at the Superdome. He was just 25 years old, out with friends, and he never made it home. We're going to hear from his brothers coming up.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK) [20:55:26]

COOPER: A short time ago, the New Orleans coroner released new information about the people killed here Wednesday morning. Twelve of the 14 people have now been identified. Last night, we told you the names of eight of them. Today, we learned four more.

Terrence Kennedy, he was 63 years old. Everybody called him Terry. Grew up in a family of nine brothers and sisters. One of those sisters remembers his laugh. He was funny, could light up a room. She also said he was loving and kind.

We also remember Elliot Wilkinson. He was 40 years old. His brother says he had a hard life and struggled with mental illness. Good hearted. That's the term his brother used for him.

He also leaves behind his mom, his sister, and a daughter. And our thoughts are with them tonight.

Also with the family of Nicole Perez. She was 27, a mom with a five- year-old son. Her family said she woke up every morning at 5.30 a.m. walk to work. They called her an example of a hardworking person going through the roughest times in her life and very dedicated to her job and very dedicated to her son.

We don't have a picture of the fourth person, we learned was killed. Brandon Taylor was his name. He was 43 from Harvey, Louisiana, just outside the city. Two other people have been identified as well. The coroner says one was a British citizen whose name is being withheld at the request of the family.

The other is a woman still in the process of being identified. All are said to have died of blunt force injuries. A vigil for the victims is planned for tomorrow in the French Quarter. Again, 14 people died here in all.

That includes 25 year old Matthew Tenedorio, whom we told you about last night. He worked here in New Orleans. Earlier today, I spoke to his two older brothers, Jonathan and Jeremy.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

COOPER: When did you find out what happened?

JONATHAN TENEDORIO, BROTHER OF BOURBON STREET ATTACK VICTIM MATTHEW TENEDORIO: The next day, right after, I guess you would say --

JEREMY TENEDORIO, BROTHER OF BOURBON STREET ATTACK VICTIM MATTHEW TENEDORIO: That morning.

JONATHAN TENEDORIO: -- that morning, essentially, we knew something was wrong. Couldn't reach him, wasn't answering.

COOPER: Did you know that he had gone down to the front?

JONATHAN TENEDORIO: Yes, yes, yes. The night before we -- because we had -- we'd talked about this before, you know, especially with the track record of these past few years have been kind of spotty. So I was like, you know, maybe it's not a good idea to go.

COOPER: I heard a story that according to some of his friends, that when he heard something going on, he actually ran towards to try to see what was happening or to try to help.

JEREMY TENEDORIO: That's what they told us, and I'm hoping at least, you know, that was the case, you know?

COOPER: Wouldn't surprise you though if he wanted to help.

JEREMY TENEDORIO: Yes.

JONATHAN TENEDORIO Yes.

JEREMY TENEDORIO That's pretty spot on with his character.

COOPER: And was it, your parents actually go into the hospital and that's how they found out.

JEREMY TENEDORIO: Yes.

JONATHAN TENEDORIO: That's when they finally found out, yes.

JEREMY TENEDORIO: Yes, we called all the hospitals asking if they had any patients with his name and couldn't get any answers until my parent, they went to the university medical. They had a conference or something set up to identify victims. And that's when they told my mom that they had him in the morgue.

COOPER: What was Matthew like? What do you want people to know about him? The fact that you both smile and laugh at the same time when we mention his name tells me that he was a character.

JEREMY TENEDORIO: He definitely was --

JONATHAN TENEDORIO: He was fun. He was a goofball.

COOPER: He was a goofball?

JEREMY TENEDORIO: Yes.

JONATHAN TENEDORIO: Yes.

COOPER: In what way?

JONATHAN TENEDORIO: Just full of life, you know. Oh, man. We had a lot of chaotic fun times growing up.

COOPER: You have older -- you have kids. Had -- are they aware of what's happened?

JONATHAN TENEDORIO: Sadly, no. I --

COOPER: How do you even tell a child? JONATHAN TENEDORIO: I know, that's, that's the worst part. I just told him that he's not coming home. And just tried to keep it as simple as possible. I just don't believe any of this. You know, it's still shock, it's just so fresh.

I haven't really had the chance to process it yet.

COOPER: Yes. Does this seem real to you at all?

JONATHAN TENEDORIO: No, not at all. I'm still waiting for him to come home. His dog is sitting there at the back door, just waiting. Every time I take him out, he just runs off looking for him. Kept trying -- keeps trying to get in the -- just looking for him.

[21:00:06]

COOPER: How are your parents facing this? I mean, it seems comprehensive.

JONATHAN TENEDORIO: My mom is trying to talk about it as much as she can, where we're all kind of the opposite. Just, you know, ignoring it, pretending it didn't happen, hoping that he's just going to come home. We're all waiting for him to just walk through that door.

COOPER: Well, thank you guys. I'm so sorry. It's really sucks.

JONATHAN TENEDORIO: Thank you.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

COOPER: Matthew Tenedorio is just 25 years old.

That's it for us. The news continues. "The Source starts now.