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Amanpour
Interview with State Senator Mallory McMorrow (D-MI); Interview with Gaza Medic Voices Co-Founder and Doctor Without Borders Pediatric Intensive Care Doctor Dr. Tanya Haj-Hassan; Interview with Sequoia Heritage Senior Adviser Michael Moritz. Aired 1-2p ET
Aired August 20, 2024 - 13:00:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
[13:00:00]
CHRISTIANE AMANPOUR, CNN CHIEF INTERNATIONAL ANCHOR: Hello, everyone, and welcome to "Amanpour." Here's what's coming up.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
JOE BIDEN, U.S. PRESIDENT: Thank you, thank you, thank you.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
AMANPOUR: It's done. The torch is passed. We examine the emotions and look beyond the euphoria at the Democratic National Convention.
Then --
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
JEREMY DIAMOND, CNN JERUSALEM CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Sanaa doesn't just accuse Israeli troops of killing her husband Akram, and daughter
Yasmeen. An Israeli soldier may also have saved her life.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
AMANPOUR: -- an extraordinary story of survival in Gaza as ceasefire hostage release talks hang by a thread. We get the latest from Tel Aviv.
Also, ahead --
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
CROWD: 40,000 people dead.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
AMANPOUR: -- frustration over Israel-Gaza policy at the Convention. I speak to Dr. Tanya Haj-Hassan, who's raising the issue at the DNC.
And --
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
MICHAEL MORITZ, SENIOR ADVISER, SEQUOIA HERITAGE: They're deluding themselves into thinking that they will have influence over Trump.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
AMANPOUR: -- the financiers backing Trump, billionaire venture capitalist Michael Moritz tells Walter Isaacson why he thinks Silicon Valley's Trump
supporters are making a bad bet.
Welcome to the program everyone. I'm Christiane Amanpour in London.
And it's day two of the Democratic National Convention in Chicago. The party is rolling out the big guns again to whip up support for their
nominee, Kamala Harris. The major draw tonight is undoubtedly Democratic power couple, President Obama and first lady, Michelle Obama. They follow
an opening night of palpable emotion when president Biden came on to his party's biggest stage to bid farewell.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
JOE BIDEN, U.S. PRESIDENT: I've made a lot of mistakes in my career, but I gave my best to you for 50 years. Like many of you, I've given my heart and
soul to our nation. And I've been blessed million times in return of the support of the American people.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
AMANPOUR: And saying that he loved his job, but he loved his country more, he passed the torch to his veep. However, the party will need to mobilize
more than just loyalists if it's going to beat Donald Trump to the White House in November.
The polls may give Harris a slight lead right now, but it's still neck and neck with 76 days to go. Michigan's Democratic State senator, Mallory
McMorrow, last night warned delegates of the dangers of re-electing Trump, and she came with a gigantic prop, the conservative blueprint known as
Project 2025. Now, she's a rising star in the party and she joins me now from Chicago.
State Senator, welcome to the program.
STATE SEN. MALLORY MCMORROW (D-MI): Thank you.
AMANPOUR: I'm going to get to that rather dramatic moment where you slam this great big tome down on the podium. But first, I want to ask you to
look forward to tonight. What do you expect after opening night from the Obamas and from the other, you know, party stars in terms of what they
might be saying this moment in Chicago and to the delegates?
MCMORROW: So, last night, I just have to start with it was absolutely electric and we had just an overwhelming sense of gratitude and
appreciation for President Biden in his lifetime of service, making this absolutely selfless decision to put the country first, America first,
something that he actually believes, unlike the other guy who just says it and looks out for himself.
And tonight, we're going to see the Obamas take the stage. And I think this is a continuation of a moment that many are recognizing right now feels
like hope again in the very way that 2008 did. So, it's just really a continuation of a celebration of energy and encouraging people to get to
work for the next 77 days to make sure that we write a new chapter for this country that leads with hope and love and passion in the way that nobody
embodies better than the Obamas.
AMANPOUR: And Kamala Harris, how do you think it's going for her at the convention? In terms of the euphoria for sure, what do you think needs to
be done to translate that into votes in November?
[13:05:00]
MCMORROW: So, I can tell you that is already happening. Down in Michigan, we had a rally in Detroit for Kamala Harris and Tim Walz, more than 15,000
people in an airport hangar spilling out into the outdoors and the energy was just so exciting. It really feels like she's risen to the moment. The
campaign that she's been able to put together in just a matter of days and now weeks.
You can feel it all throughout the convention, a convention that is bringing together very disparate voices from our party in a real message of
unity. So, it's just a matter of continuing the work. We've seen record uptick in volunteering opportunities and donations. People are coming out
to sign up to volunteer that have never done anything like this before. So, it's just a matter of keeping that energy going all the way through
November.
AMANPOUR: Now, there are a lot of constituents obviously and constituencies that she has to win back to the Democratic side. But
perhaps, maybe not women, because the Democrats have been very trailblazing in that regard.
Of course, 2016, it was Hillary Clinton, who might have been, you know, the first female president. And she took to the stage last night, talking about
how far this country actually has come. Going to play a tiny bit from her speech.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
HILLARY CLINTON, FORMER U.S. DEMOCRATIC PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: Nearly 66 million Americans voted for a future where there are no ceilings on our
dreams. And afterwards, we refused to give up on America. Millions marched. Many ran for office. We kept our eyes on the future. Well, my friends, the
future is here.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
AMANPOUR: So, that's pretty dramatic and a rallying cry, and you are one of the future faces, certainly, you know, in -- of the females in the
party. What does that speech and that realization mean to you?
MCMORROW: You know, it's been really incredible. Since 2016, you look at a state like Michigan, Michigan is now a state that is led by women. We have
Gretchen Whitmer, our governor, Dana Nessel, our attorney general, Jocelyn Benson, our secretary of state. We have more women in the legislature than
we ever had. And the amount of progress we've made in such a short time where it's no longer an issue that you're a woman running for office, and
if anything, it's preferable to voters.
So, it's just really exciting to see that this is no longer a hurdle that I think Kamala Harris has to get over. It is a building on the
accomplishments of women led by Secretary Clinton and all of us who have run largely on her shoulders. It just feels amazing.
AMANPOUR: And do you think that's why, certainly up to now, Kamala Harris has not made a big deal about being a woman, it's not the center point? The
whole -- that part of identity is not what she uses as her tentpole speeches?
MCMORROW: You know, I think that's right. Obviously, you know, looking at her that she is a woman and we've gotten to a place where you no longer
need to really state that almost as a qualifier. I think for so many women, it felt like something that you had to say almost as a qualifier to say,
yes, I'm a woman, but I can still do this. I can be in the boardroom. I can be an elected official.
And it's no longer a but. We see women in leadership positions all over the country in all different types of offices, and Kamala Harris is just
another example of an incredible, competent candidate who is going to become the next president of the United States.
AMANPOUR: And of course, where I sit, all over the world they have really done it first. America lags in that regard because there are female
presidents, prime ministers, heads of armies, foreign ministers and it's been that way for a long, long time.
So, I want to ask you then about Donald Trump and you brought that gigantic Project 2025 thing that is the blueprint for a conservative agenda, which
you called Trump's plan to become a dictator. I'm going to play a tiny little bit of your speech last night.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
MCMORROW: I'm Michigan State Senator Mallory McMorrow. And this is Project 2025. They went ahead and wrote down all the extreme things that Donald
Trump wants to do in the next four years. And then they just tweeted it out. Putting it out on the internet for everybody to read. So, we read it.
And whatever you think it might be, it is so much worse.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
[13:10:00]
AMANPOUR: What made you come up with the idea of making this gigantic hardcover book and slamming it down on the podium?
MCMORROW: You know, I think when people hear about Project 2025, first of all, the contents of it are just terrifying. But beyond that, the Heritage
Foundation created a 900 plus page document outlining what Donald Trump and all of his lackeys would do in the first 180 days if they got back into
office. Now, that in and of itself is terrifying.
But when you are presenting to an arena full of people and an audience all across the country, we really had to drive that point home in a way that
people would remember. I think it's really important to distill complex ideas in ways that people can talk to their friends at a bar about that's
really going to stick.
So, we worked in really bringing this book to life, to really showcase the size of it, the amount of content in it. But then we wanted to break it
down into a very simple concept that you are going to see every night throughout the convention about what this document really means in a way
that the American people can understand. And I think it's important to realize that especially in Gen Z, there are a lot of voters voting for
maybe the first time this year who don't remember what it was like to have Donald Trump into office. And we have to draw a very stark contrast between
what Kamala Harris is presenting and the dangers of Donald Trump.
AMANPOUR: So, I've questioned quite a few Republicans when we get them on the air and they all say no, no, no, it's not his blueprint. Those --
that's the Heritage Foundation. It's not us. But you obviously clearly believe that it is something to be concerned about. And obviously, Trump
himself has given that famous interview to Time magazine in which he laid out some of the dictatorial, I guess, wish list that he wanted to
implement.
But I wonder what you make of this that was just, you know, sent to me and announced this weekend. Trump is announcing a crime and safety rally for
this Tuesday in your state, in Howell, Michigan. It's a town that's for decades been heavily associated with the KKK. We spoke a little bit about
the significance of that before we came on air, but what actually -- what is he saying? Who is this directed to?
MCMORROW: I think this is really one of the dangers of Donald Trump. And it's not an accident that he's holding this event in Howell, Michigan, a
place not only traditionally home to the KKK, but there was literally Nazi paraphernalia, graffiti painted just a few days ago with Nazis proudly
marching openly in Howell.
So, it is this message that, on one hand, he's claiming to support public safety, but it's safety for who? Who is he demonizing? Who is he targeting?
And really, it's anybody who is not straight and white and who upholds very traditional Aryan principles, which should terrify all of us. It's not who
we are as a country.
AMANPOUR: You know, and many say it won't be lost, you know, on people who are black, people who are Jewish, people who are -- those kinds of, you
know, groups that have been targeted in the past and continue to be targeted.
So, let me ask you this, because look, you know, everybody's fact-checking everything. Last night you said that SCOTUS and the decision about
immunity, grants the president total immunity. You said thanks to Donald Trump's handpicked Supreme Court, he's now completely immune from
prosecution. But CNN's fact-checkers say that's not entirely correct, that it -- he gets some immunity but not blanket immunity. What do you say to
that?
MCMORROW: So, when the Supreme Court issued their ruling, they were incredibly vague about how they would define the difference between an
official presidential duty and a personal duty, leaving the door wide open in their decision that anything that the president does while in office can
be considered an official duty.
So, I think that is really what should terrify people. If we've seen anything from the Supreme Court over the last few years, is they're willing
to give Donald Trump all the leeway in the world where if he can make the argument, this was an official duty because I was in office, even if he
starts attacking political opponents, even if he starts jailing people for reasons that are not considered by the rest of our standards to be a crime,
that he would get blanket immunity because the Supreme Court has effectively said, so long as he is in office as the president, he has
immunity from his actions.
AMANPOUR: Finally, I want to ask you, because a recent poll, CBS News YouGov says, 37 percent of registered American voters said the war between
Israel and Hamas is a major factor in their vote. That's a big deal. And particularly amongst Arab-Americans who believe that, you know, the
administration is not adequately standing for the right of Palestinians. What do you think's going to happen come election day? Are those votes
going to be won back? What will it take?
[13:15:00]
MCMORROW: So, I think that it's key to point out that all the protests and the conversation around the Middle East are happening on the Democratic
side, and that is for good reason, because voters recognize that the Democrats are more closely aligned with seeking peace in the Middle East.
They are not even having this conversation on the Republican side, because you've got Jared Kushner, the president's son-in-law, who advises him on
issues, who has said that Gaza should be bulldozed and would make great beachfront property.
There was a panel held at the convention yesterday about really uplifting Palestinian voices and values. The vice president has called for a
ceasefire. The president last night, in his speech, acknowledged that it is time to bring this war to an end, and that is the beauty of the Democratic
Party and also one of our challenges. But we are willing to take on difficult conversations, and I believe that voters will be with us in
November.
AMANPOUR: And actually, later in the program we're going to talk to 1 of the doctors who was on that panel that you just mentioned. State Senator
McMorrow, thank you very much indeed for joining us.
And outside the convention hall, thousands of pro-Palestinian protesters are demanding the U.S. end its support of Israel's war in Gaza. It's a
major issue, plaguing the next president, as we just discussed. Though the Biden administration again touted hope for a ceasefire, neither Israel nor
Hamas sounded optimistic.
In an overnight operation, though, the Israeli military has announced that it retrieved the bodies of six of hostages from Hamas tunnels in Khan
Younis.
Meantime, countless Palestinian families are losing their loved ones, including Sanaa Abu Tabaq, whose husband and daughter were killed in an
attack in their home. She and her other daughter share their painful story with correspondent Jeremy Diamond from a Jerusalem hospital.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
JEREMY DIAMOND, CNN JERUSALEM CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Five-year-old Sham's eyes are a portal to the past she cannot forget. There are the
streets and homes scarred by war. This building where she recited her final prayers. And then there is the indelible sight of her father and sister,
shot dead before her eyes.
Sham's mother, Sanaa, who suffered burns as a child, will never forget that day.
SANAA ABU TABAQ, SURVIVES ATTACK THAT KILLED HUSBAND AND DAUGHTER (through translator): I wish we hadn't returned. I lost the most precious people.
DIAMOND (voice-over): But there's more to their story than tragedy and loss in war-torn Gaza. Sham and Sanaa's story is unlike any other we have
come across in 10 months of war. That's because Sanaa doesn't just accuse Israeli troops of killing her husband Akram and daughter Yasmeen. An
Israeli soldier may also have saved her life.
On November 24th, the weeklong truce between Israel and Hamas begins. Thousands of people begin heading back to their homes in Northern Gaza.
Sanaa and her family are among them. But as they approach the Salatin neighborhood where they lived, they find themselves walking alone. And
then, shots ring out.
ABU TABAQ (through translator): May God have mercy on her soul, Yasmeen. One bullet in her back and one in her shoulder. I was hit in my leg. And my
husband was hit in his stomach. So, we all sat on the ground. We couldn't move. And we were bleeding. Sham is the only one who wasn't hit.
DIAMOND (voice-over): Her husband soon decides to crawl away to try to find help, but moments later, he is shot again, fatally.
Sanaa lies on the ground, bleeding, cradling her eldest daughter, Yasmeen.
ABU TABAQ (through translator): She was saying, mom, did you die? Please don't die and leave us. I'm still alive. I held her and I told her, no, my
dear, we are not going to die. The ambulance is coming. I was trying to give her hope. Even though I knew there was no hope.
DIAMOND: As a mother, I mean, you must have felt absolutely helpless in that moment.
ABU TABAQ (through translator): I wasn't able to do anything, and that was the hardest situation. I couldn't. She was even asking for water, and I
couldn't give her water.
DIAMOND (voice-over): Yasmeen soon died in her mother's arms. For hours, Sanaa lies here with Sham, unable to move until she finally finds the
strength to crawl down the street and into this nearby home. We obtained footage from that house after our first interview with Sanaa. This is the
first time she and Sham are seeing it.
[13:20:00]
ABU TABAQ (through translator): This is the bathroom we hid in.
DIAMOND (voice-over): And Sham begins to tell my colleague, Abeer Salman, what happened to her.
ABEER SALMAN, CNN JOURNALIST (through translator): What happened in the morning?
SHAM (through translator): The tanks came.
SALMAN (through translator): How do you know the tanks had come?
SHAM (through translator): I heard their sound.
ABU TABAQ (through translator): I told her, they've reached us. We recited the Shahada. She said, hide me so I don't see them when they shoot me.
DIAMOND (voice-over): An explosion then rocks the bathroom. Israeli soldiers enter the house and call out in Arabic. What happens next is
captured on muted body camera footage provided by the Israeli military. Two soldiers treating Sanaa's gunshot wound.
ABU TABAQ (through translator): I told him, please have mercy. Didn't you see my daughter who was killed at the door? I beg you, please don't kill
us, it's enough. He told me, it wasn't us who killed her. I was Sinwar. I told him, I have nothing to do with Sinwar, or anyone else. You took my
daughter and you took everything.
DIAMOND (voice-over): The medic soon realizes her condition is serious. She needs to get to a hospital.
ABU TABAQ (through translator): The one who spoke Arabic started to make his calls. Then he tole me, we decided to help you and take you with us.
DIAMOND (voice-over): Israeli soldiers carry Sanaa out of the building on a stretcher, her hands clutching Sham. Nothing about this footage should be
extraordinary. Militaries must protect and care for wounded civilians when possible under international law. But in this war, this sight is
exceedingly rare.
For eight months, Sanaa and Sham have lived in this Jerusalem hospital. Their journey here was no less traumatic. Interrogation and strip searches
came before treatment at an Israeli hospital. Israeli authorities are now planning to send them back to Gaza next month, unless another country takes
them in.
The Israeli military, for its part, told CNN in a statement that Sanaa and her family were caught in the crossfire. The IDF says its soldiers issued
verbal warnings after the family stumbled upon a concealed military position, drawing a militant attack.
The four people who entered in the area were caught in the intense exchange of fire between the terrorists and our troops. The troops did not open fire
at the four people, nor did they aim at them.
ABU TABAQ (through translator): They are lying. There was nobody in that area.
DIAMOND: I wonder, what would you say to that one soldier if you could see him again?
ABU TABAQ (through translator): It's true he helped me. But he also took from me the most precious thing I had. I can't even thank him, because he
had mercy for us by the will of God, not by his own will. Because if he had compassion, he wouldn't have deprived me of the dearest people to my heart.
DIAMOND (voice-over): Sanaa's pain is as raw as ever and seeing her home again in footage filmed this spring brings a flood of emotion.
ABU TABAQ (through translator): These are Yasmeen and Sham's shoes. I bought these shoes for Eid.
DIAMOND (voice-over): Mundane objects are transformed into relics.
ABU TABAQ (through translator): This is Yasmeen's dress and this is Sham's dress. She always loved pink. This is her dress.
DIAMOND (voice-over): And Sanaa is taken back in time, to the life she will never get back.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
AMANPOUR: And Jeremy's joining us now from Tel Aviv. Jeremy, very, very powerful story. I want to know whether there's any update to the fact that
you report the IDF says they're going to send her back with her daughter. Is that really possible?
DIAMOND (on camera): As of now, Israeli authorities are planning to send Sanaa and Sham back to Gaza at some point early next month. But, as I
understand it, if a third country comes in and says that they will take them in, then there is an option here for them to not go back to Gaza.
And I do want to stress what that could mean if they were sent back to Gaza. I spoke with Sham actually just in the last -- sorry, I spoke with
Sanaa in just the last hour, and she told me that she is terrified of going back to Gaza, terrified of what life would be like if she were living with
her family who are currently living in makeshift shelters. They've been displaced four times in Gaza already so far during this war. But most of
all, she is terrified about what going back to Gaza could mean for her daughter, Sham.
You know, I first met Sham five months ago, and the girl that she is now is very different from the girl she was five months ago. She has opened up.
So, much more and her mother is terrified that should they go back to Gaza, all of the progress that she has made since then could effectively be
erased in an instant.
[13:25:00]
AMANPOUR: It is incredible how resilient children can be given half the chance. But I want to know what -- about the bigger picture in terms of a
ceasefire for everybody's sake, a transfer of hostages and prisoners. There's all sorts of leaking, as you know, and reporting of blaming and
finger pointing at the Netanyahu government for not pushing these ahead, even within this Israeli establishment, there are criticisms for the way
this is going. And even Egypt has been leaking that they don't think the Israelis want a ceasefire.
What do you think is going on? How much do you -- how much store do you set by what the Americans are saying that it's so close?
DIAMOND: It is so hard to know who or what information to believe at this stage. And so, I think we have to just kind of keep an open mind about
various different possibilities. There's no question, though, that it very much seems like the Americans are the most kind of optimistic, the most
gung-ho about this current negotiating process.
And at times, it really does feel like they are almost trying to will this ceasefire agreement into existence. You know, yesterday, we heard the
secretary of state, Antony Blinken, saying that Israel has accepted this bridging proposal, which is intended to bridge the gaps between the Israeli
position and the Hamas position.
But at the same time, we are still hearing doubts in the Israeli government about Israel's full commitment to the current version of the ceasefire
proposal. And in addition to that, Hamas is saying that they believe this bridging proposal is effectively caving to a series of Israeli demands,
which they view as total nonstarters.
So, right now, it's it seems difficult to imagine how a deal could come together this week, which is what the United States has said their goal is.
But it is clear that at least negotiations are continuing, and we expect the secretary of state, Antony Blinken, as he arrives in Doha, Qatar, to
get a better sense from the Qataris, who are the key interlocutors with Hamas, about exactly where their head is at behind the scenes. So, these
negotiations are certainly continuing. Very hard to see where they go from here, though.
AMANPOUR: In the meantime, we reported-- well, we repeated what's been reported, and that is the remains of six Israeli hostages have been
retrieved. What are the families saying about this constant and continued lack of a full resolution to their terrible dilemma?
DIAMOND: Well, the recovery of those -- the six bodies of hostages today is just a reminder that time is running out. And that is the focus that we
have heard from so many family members of those whose bodies were recovered in Gaza today.
You know, for them, this is a kind of bittersweet day. It gives them some sense of closure, in particular for those who already knew that their loved
ones were dead and their bodies being held inside of Gaza. But for others, it is simply a reminder of the fact that it didn't necessarily need to be
this way.
We heard even from little Ohad Munder, the grandson of Avraham Munder, whose body was recovered today, and he said that he felt like there could
have been a deal so many times before. This little boy is just wise beyond his years. And he, like so many other family members of hostages, recognize
that there were opportunities before, and there certainly is an opportunity once again today. The question is, is the political will there on both
sides to seize that opportunity?
AMANPOUR: Jeremy Diamon, thank you so much. Now, of course, as we've been talking, the Israel-Gaza war has made its way to the Democratic National
Convention in Chicago, with protesters gathered outside. Well, inside, a panel, as we heard, focused on Palestinian human rights, which brought the
topic to the DNC for the very first time. Among the speakers, my next guest, Dr. Tania Haj-Hassan, moving many in the crowd to tears, as she
described what she had seen inside Gaza when she worked there as a medic in March.
Dr. Tanya Haj-Hassan, welcome to the program. We just heard before you came on from State Senator Mallory McMorrow, who was quite moved and went to
quite, you know, lengths to tell us about this panel. Tell me about the panel that you took part in. What was it designed to do? Are you satisfied
with what you were able to do during that panel?
DR. TANYA HAJ-HASSAN, CO-FOUNDER, GAZA MEDIC VOICES AND PEDIATRIC INTENSIVE CARE DOCTOR, DOCTOR WITHOUT BORDERS: Thanks, Christiane. So, I'm here
amongst multiple American doctors and physicians who've all come for the same purpose. In fact, I don't know a single physician or surgeon or
healthcare worker who's been to Gaza in the past 10 months that doesn't come back with the same very urgent message.
You know, we've been trained to protect and preserve human life. But the Israeli military campaign is targeting life and everything needed to
sustain it in Gaza. And that renders our work as physicians impossible.
[13:30:00]
This morning, I'm here with a number of American doctors, surgeons who just held a press conference here at the McCormick Center in Chicago. I had
contacted a few of them a couple weeks ago saying that we wanted to come and speak at the Democratic National Convention to try and see if we can
pressure the U.S. to take a different position to finally put down an arms embargo or -- and pressure and end to this military campaign. And the
overwhelming response from every single person I contacted was, yes, absolutely, we're coming.
You know, I work for Doctors Without Borders, Medecins Sans Frontieres, and in the Rwandan genocide they said genocide calls for a radical immediate
response. Doctors cannot stop genocide. And I think a lot of us feel the same way. We are so horrified by what we witness. It haunts us in our
dreams.
Dr. Mark Perlmutter, a Jewish American surgeon who was there sent a message for us to deliver today. Unfortunately, he couldn't be here for work
obligations, but he said parents come to him in his dreams and stare at him wondering why he didn't do more to stop their children from being killed.
And I cannot count the number of children, Christiane, that died under my care in Gaza from U.S.-made bombs falling on their homes, on the places
they have been displaced to multiple times.
And I think the purpose -- the reason I was here, and the reason I think many of my colleagues have turned up is because we wouldn't be able to live
with ourselves if we thought we hadn't done everything possible to stop this.
AMANPOUR: And, Doctor, do you feel -- you know, and you've sent in pictures and we've seen and we've had reports from our correspondents
throughout this, you know, terrible 10 months about what's unfolding in Gaza, even though international reporters cannot get in. I mean, they're
really heroic Palestinians who are working with our international colleagues to get this story out.
Do you feel that what you said and the way the panel was received made any inroads? Because it seems from where we sit, there's literally no chance in
hell that there's going to be an arms embargo or anything on Israel?
DR. HAJ-HASSAN: Christiane, I wish I could contradict you but, you know, I'm a rational person and I have been coming on the news for 10 months,
repeating the same messages of urgency over and over again, and I haven't seen significant change in the American position on this.
You know, for the ongoing and unconditional U.S. military support for Israel in this military campaign, it starkly contrasts with documented
realities on the ground, with what me and my colleagues have personally witnessed, what every single person I know who's been to Gaza in the last
10 months has come out saying, what the International Court of Justice is calling -- have findings indicating it's plausible genocide, with the
repeated global condemnation from every human rights and humanitarian organization.
So, I want to contradict you and say that the fact that there's so many people here delivering the same message, the fact that, in essence, the
U.S. is breaking its own laws and international law by continuing to fund this, that these things are going to change the position. I hope it will.
History is watching us. And I know I wouldn't be able to live with myself if I were in the position of these decision makers and continued to fund
this.
AMANPOUR: The pictures that we've just shown are some of the ones that you sent from your time in the hospital there in March. There are, according to
the Gaza authorities, more than 40,000 now is the death toll. We don't know exactly how many are civilians and how many are militants. But certainly,
we see the images of civilians who are most definitely, you know, killed and wounded in this.
What gives you hope? Is it the protests outside? Is it the uncommitted movement in the Democratic Party, which sent a clear signal during the
primaries and continues to send it? There are delegates of uncommitted -- this uncommitted group in terms of their protests there in Chicago. What
gives you hope?
[13:35:00]
DR. HAJ-HASSAN: So, Christiane, I mean, you're right. Just going back to what you said. There are tens of thousands of people who've been killed.
So, many of those children -- I think when you look at the death toll in Gaza, it reflects the demographics of the population. It tells you how
indiscriminate these attacks have been.
This military assault has broken all the worst types of records, highest number of humanitarian workers killed, record numbers of journalists
killed, record numbers of healthcare workers killed. Over 500 healthcare workers in Gaza killed to date, including many of my colleagues, people I
knew personally.
And this isn't even mentioning all the healthcare workers that have been detained, tortured. We're hearing reports of physical, psychological, and
sexual torture. I spoke to a few of them who've been released because they have no crime to be held for, and they described the worst kinds of abuse.
What gives me hope? I think -- you know, I spoke to with one of my Gazan colleagues yesterday on the phone. He's a pain and rehabilitation doctor
who's an Oxford graduate like myself. I knew him in Oxford, and I've also seen him multiple times in Gaza on my visits there. And he had some very
sad messages to share, including some -- he -- I asked him if there's anything he wanted me to share. And he said, you know, tell them that
children around me are wishing for death because they would rather die than go on living --
AMANPOUR: We've heard that.
DR. HAJ-HASSAN: -- in these unlivable circumstances.
AMANPOUR: Each time I hear that from somebody like yourself and somebody who's on the ground, it is very shocking to hear children who say that. And
I just want to ask you from your perspective, you were there for, I don't know, a month or so in a specific hospital in Gaza in March. The war was
raging. The Israelis say that they follow the laws of war and they do their best to avoid civilian casualties.
Is there anything that you were able to see, from your perspective, that leads you to believe that is the case?
DR. HAJ-HASSAN: Christiane, I'll tell you what I saw and then I'll let you and your viewers conclude what you may. The emergency department is filled
with families. I would -- I'm a pediatric intensive care doctor. My subspecialty is -- my specialty is children. My subspecialty is children
who are critically unwell or ill or injured.
And I was instrumental in the emergency department. I was running around all over the place. They kept on calling me because in every corner of the
resuscitation bay, there were children fighting for their life. And I -- that in and of itself tells you how little to nothing is being done to
preserve civilian life.
It's -- the families that I spoke to are living in apartment buildings, they're living in tents. I had a patient who was bulldozed in her tent and
crushed and died. I have a woman in the ICU who came to visit her six-year- old daughter who had severe brain damage from the missile that fell on her home. She said she was just in the middle of prayer when it happened. Her
husband works at a dairy factory. And her infant child was killed in the same attack.
A pregnant woman wheeled in seven days postpartum, speechless, just staring vacantly. Her husband with her telling me that she delivered seven days ago
and that the baby she delivered is somewhere trapped under the rubble. I was turning left, right and center amongst entire families whose lives have
been destroyed in a single second.
So, to say that, you know, everything is being done to protect civilian lives. I mean --
AMANPOUR: Yes, Doctor, I hear you.
DR. HAJ-HASSAN: -- I think your viewers are more intelligent than that.
AMANPOUR: Thank you very much indeed for joining us, Dr. Tanya Haj-Hassan.
Now, for their part, Donald Trump and his running mate, J. D. Vance, are campaigning in swing states this week. They are also eyeing Silicon Valley,
where some of the wealthiest and most powerful tech titans are lining up behind Trump.
Once a stronghold of liberal ideas, the center of U.S. innovation is drifting to the right. But our next guest is urging his peers to rethink.
Michael Moritz, senior adviser at Sequoia Heritage, joins Walter Isaacson to explain why.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
WALTER ISAACSON, CO-HOST, AMANPOUR AND CO.: Thank you, Christiane. And Michael Moritz, welcome to the show.
MICHAEL MORITZ, SENIOR ADVISER, SEQUOIA HERITAGE: Nice to see you, Walter.
[13:40:00]
ISAACSON: For the past 40 years, you've been a titan in the Silicon Valley entrepreneurial tech world. And like most people there, you've been a
Democrat. You still are, support the Democrats. But this year, a surprising number of people, I think, in your world, in Silicon Valley, in the
entrepreneurial world, are backing Donald Trump, you know, Peter Thiel, Elon Musk, Marc Andreessen, Ben Horowitz, David Sacks, Joe Lonsdale. Is
this a major change? And if so, why?
MORITZ: You've counted six people, Walter, in Silicon Valley. And Silicon Valley being this stretch of land that stretches from San Francisco to San
Jose, and the people who are supporting Trump, supporting the Republicans, the surprising thing about it is how small a number it is, but how large
the volume of that they've been able to generate because of their varying and clever commands of different communication channels, in particular
Twitter and all the rest of it.
So, I think they've been able to amplify their voice and their sentiments far beyond the reality of the particulars in Silicon Valley, which is
heavily anti-Trump, as it has been for the last two elections in Silicon Valley, in both 2016 and 2020. Trump barely mustered 20 percent of the
vote, and it'll be the same result this time.
ISAACSON: But you took up arms, in a way, in a Financial Times piece, in which you wrote, Trump supporters in Silicon Valley are making the same
mistake. All powerful people who back authoritarians. What did you mean by that?
MORITZ: Well, it's perplexing to me why these very smart, absurdly wealthy, incredibly accomplished individuals have backed Trump in the first
place. And I'm also perplexed by the fact that I know -- I don't know all of them well, but I know them well enough to imagine that each of them
would have trouble imagining having Trump as part of any investment syndicate that they might arrange and organize.
And I can only think that they feel that somehow or other they're deluding themselves into thinking that they will have influence over Trump, they'll
be able to control his activities, they'll be able to channel him into the particular areas in which they have an interest. And I think that's the
mistake that other people who have backed authoritarians, you know, in different circumstances in different countries over the year have also
made, and I think they're deluding themselves.
ISAACSON: But a lot of them make the point that the Democratic Party has become more and more anti-entrepreneurial. Even you have written about
crippling regulatory regimes. It's hard for people in your field who are doing startups and, you know, trying to take risks. Are you worried that
the Democratic Party has moved that way and thus caused this bit of a revolt against them in Silicon Valley?
MORITZ: I think it's clear that the Democrats and, to a large extent, the Republicans also, for different reasons, have lost touch with the realities
of things that concern a whole slew of voters. And both parties, I think bear blame for not managing for the common good.
And look, I live in California. And I sort of -- I describe myself as a Schwarzenegger Democrat, you know, pretty liberal on social issues,
reasonably centrist or conservative on economic issues. And if you live in California, and you see what the Democratic Party has done in California,
there are plenty of reasons to complained.
And I can sympathize with a lot of the arguments that people, like the individuals that you mentioned at the beginning, Walter, who are backing
Trump have about the tilt of politics, particularly in California, which has become increasing -- a state where it has become increasingly difficult
to do business.
[13:45:00]
So, I think that there is reason -- that these people have good reasons for some of their complaints, but unfortunately, they're channeling their
frustration towards the wrong individual.
ISAACSON: Well, you've just talked about the problems in California being over regulatory and moving to the progressive left. Well, Kamala Harris,
the Democratic nominee, she's a product of Silicon Valley California politics or D.A. of San Francisco, attorney general of California. You've
watched her over the years. Why do you think she could push back against these tendencies that you find problematic?
MORITZ: I think one certainly would hope so. I don't think she's really a product of Silicon Valley. She's much more a product of San Francisco. And
--
ISAACSON: That may make the question even stronger.
MORITZ: I -- well, I think on the progressive front, I completely agree. I think one would hope that both parties understand that the
disenfranchisement that tens of millions of people living in this country feel, whether it's these ultra-wealthy people that are backing Trump or the
tens of millions of people who feel forgotten and left behind, they are sending a very strong message to both parties, to the Democrats and
Republicans that you've forgotten this. And you've forgotten the touchstones, you've forgotten the things that people care about when it
comes to economic mobility and being left behind and all the sorts of things that has caused this wellspring of support for Trump.
And then, with lots of people in California now protesting at the state level and at the city level about the fact that progressive left has moved
both in California, the state, and in San Francisco, the city, into a ditch that politicians are going to get the message, including the Democratic
presidential nominee, and that's certainly happening in San Francisco, where the opposition to one party rule is as strong as it's been in 50
years.
ISAACSON: Given what you just said about San Francisco, doesn't that explain some of the rebellion of people in the entrepreneurial and tech
industry against the Democratic Party?
MORITZ: I think it does. I think there are plenty of reasons to -- in California, which, you know, is largely a Democratic state, obviously, to
have lots of complaints about the way in which the state has been government -- and governed, and that reflects obviously on the Democratic
Party writ large.
But I think the sort of Democratic Party leadership that's been demonstrate -- all that has occurred in San Francisco over the last 20 years is far to
the left of what's happened in state politics and in the state capital in Sacramento.
ISAACSON: You made some big news about a month ago when Joe Biden was still in the race and you sent an e-mail to The New York Times and says,
President Biden has a choice, vanity or virtue. He can either condemn the country to dark and cruel times, or heed the voice of Father Time. The
clock has run out.
How important do you think people like yourself were in getting Joe Biden to reconsider running, and why were you so strong about that?
MORITZ: I suspect my note or my e-mail had about as much effect as a drop of rain and a thunderstorm. But I think there were -- look, there were --
as both of us know, and everybody knows, there was the fact that you -- he woke up to the fact that he was going to embark on a war without an army
behind him.
And he had found that his generals had gradually left him and lost confidence in him, and the rank and file of Democratic voters had, and he'd
been hearing this message loud and clear from a variety of constituents, including, you know, influential members of Congress, obviously, the former
speaker of the House, and then there were a whole number of people in the sort of donor community who had spoken out and registered their dismay at
the prospect of him, despite all the respect that so many people have for him leading the country into this -- or leading the Democratic Party into
this election this year after the fiasco of the debate.
[13:50:00]
ISAACSON: Where are you directing your financial support in this election and what type of donations are you going to make?
MORITZ: It's in two areas, one in San Francisco, which is my prime activity, actually, and it's the -- we have big races at a local level in
San Francisco this fall, we got a mayor's race, we got races for the supervisor's positions, which is the equivalent of the city council. And
then, there are some charter reform initiatives that I'm heavily involved with. So, I'm involved in San Francisco heavily in those particular areas.
And then, in the presidential area, Harriet, my wife and I, we've been donating through an organization that is run by Jim Messina and James
Carville called American Bridge that is sort of ancillary to the main presidential campaign. But that has been massively effective, particularly
in 2020 and 2022. And we've been deeply impressed by the manner in which they can execute very nimbly and effectively as an adjunct to the
presidential campaigns.
ISAACSON: Are you personally a strong supporter of Kamala Harris?
MORITZ: Yes.
ISAACSON: Well, how do you think that Kamala Harris should campaign? And are you worried about her being perceived as part of that progressivism
that took place -- and took people into a ditch?
MORITZ: She will undoubtedly -- the Trump-Vance campaign will undoubtedly try and tie her to San Francisco, much as if Governor Newsom had been the
presidential candidate, they would have tied him as the former mayor to San Francisco.
But I'm -- she needs to be able to do convince people that she has gained a lot of experience both in her role in the state in Sacramento and then as
in the senatorial seat for the country where she is and has, I assume, been learning to govern for the common good, which means moving much to a much
more centrist line of -- centrist set of policies and method of government.
ISAACSON: You are a long-time board member of Google. I think you're one of the early investors, for which congratulations. But the Justice
Department just won a major ruling against Google as anti-trust. Do you think that's right for the Justice Department to be pushing these things?
And would you hope that Kamala Harris and others would be a little bit less aggressive and antitrust enforcement?
MORITZ: Politicians -- I think this goes back to the divine right of kings, I think, and when you have overmighty citizens, whether they're
dukes and massive landowners in ancient England or powerful corporations in America today, whether it's Amazon or Microsoft or Facebook or Google,
politicians get unhappy when they have with any entity that they don't feel that they can control.
You can see it in the E.U. as well, targeting the same companies. You see it in China with Xi Jinping moving against the largest companies.
Politicians around the world are universal in their skepticism about companies that they can't control. And we've seen it before here, we've
seen it with IBM, we've seen it with AT&T.
I think the Google battle will be -- this isn't -- you know, there was a court ruling, obviously, but the remedies are going to take several years
to work out. And I would hope that Kamala Harris and others come to recognize also that these companies have led the world into the future and
given us billions of people around the world, services that we couldn't imagine would have existed 40 or 50 years ago.
[13:55:00]
ISAACSON: Michael Morris, thank you so much for joining us.
MORITZ: Thanks, Walter.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
AMANPOUR: And finally, tonight, pride and parades on the streets of Nepal. The capital Kathmandu has hosted a festival of music, dancing, and rainbow
themed revelry with thousands celebrating love and acceptance for the first time since the nation embraced LGBTQ rights last year by allowing couples
to register same sex marriage.
And that's it for now. Thank you for watching, and goodbye from London.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[14:00:00]
END
