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The Amanpour Hour
Russia: At least 133 Killed, 100 Plus Injured In Concert Hall Attack; Support Pours In For Princess Catherine After Cancer Diagnosis; Congress Averts Government Shutdown, Passes Funding Bill; Why Are So Many Of Us More Unhappy Than Ever; Interview With U.S. Surgeon General Vivek Murthy; Interview With IRC President David Miliband; The Legacy That Set Putin's Russia On The Path To Dictatorship; The Original Trolls: Poison Pen Letters. Aired 11a-12p ET
Aired March 23, 2024 - 11:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
[10:59:43]
JANE COASTON, CONTRIBUTING OPINION WRITER, "THE NEW YORK TIMES": I do. It's march madness and I am positively convinced that this week we will see another college betting scandal in men's or women's basketball. so far we've only seen a scandal that hit Alabama baseball last year and a couple of college football players who got caught betting on other college teams.
But this is the, this is the betting Olympics. And if you haven't seen a betting add in the last two weeks, it's because your eyes were not opened. I will -- I would be stunned if that does not take place over the next week
AUDIE CORNISH, CNN HOST: All right.
Chris is going to be back next week and you can catch me on CNN's "THE ASSIGNMENT" podcast. That drops twice a week wherever you get your podcasts.
Until then, thanks for spending part of your day with us. We'll see you back here next week.
[BREAKING NEWS]
FREDRICKA WHITFIELD, CNN ANCHOR: Hello, everyone. Thank you so much for joining me this Saturday. I'm Fredricka Whitfield in Atlanta. THE AMANPOUR HOUR begins in just a moment.
But first these top stories we're staying on top of, several breaking stories at this hour in fact.
Starting in Russia, where a short time ago, President Vladimir Putin released a statement on the deadly attack on a concert venue near Moscow, calling it a barbaric terrorist act. ISIS is claiming responsibility for the rampage, which killed at least 133 people and injured more than 100.
The world is also reacting to the stunning announcement from the Princess of Wales revealing her cancer diagnosis. Princess Catherine says, she is now in the early stages of treatment.
All right.
Let's get started in Russia. CNN senior international correspondent Fred Pleitgen is monitoring developments from Berlin. So Fred, what more is the Kremlin saying at this point?
FREDERIK PLEITGEN, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Well, Vladimir Putin came out a couple of really an hour and a half ago and he essentially addressed to the Russian nation, he offered his condolences. He called the attack on the Crocus Center a barbaric attack as he put it.
And he also then tried to create a link Fredricka to the attackers and to Ukraine. It was quite interesting to listen to Vladimir Putin because this is also a narrative that we are now hearing more generally from Russian state-controlled, Kremlin-controlled media as well, where they are saying that right now -- that they're not exactly sure where these attackers came from, what organization they're from, but they are trying to create some sort of link to Ukraine claiming that the attackers were trying to get back to Ukraine after perpetrating the attack last night.
I want to listen in to some of what Vladimir Putin had to say.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
VLADIMIR PUTIN, RUSSIAN PRESIDENT (through translator): All those direct perpetrators of the terrorist attacks, or those who shot and killed were found and detained. They tried to hide and moved towards Ukraine, where according to preliminary data, a window was prepared for them on the Ukrainian side to cross the state border. A total of 11 people were detained.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PLEITGEN: There's two things I think are really interesting about that, Fredricka. On the one hand, he said that the perpetrators, as he called them, were trying to get to Ukraine. Of course, that in itself is a pretty difficult thing to do because, of course, that is exactly where the frontline of the war in Ukraine currently is. And there really is no open border to get through there.
He then claimed as he put it, that a window appeared to have been opened for them seemingly meaning some sort of way to get across the border which would strongly indicate that Vladimir Putin, like some others in Russian state media are accusing Ukrainian and the Ukrainian state or any state organizations of having been at the very least a part of this operation.
Ukrainian military intelligence has already come out and said that Ukraine had absolutely nothing to do with this. In fact, the military intelligence service is accusing Russia of doing this in a false flag operations.
So you can see these things going back and forth there between the Russians and the Ukrainians that narrative sort of starting to take hold there in Russia now.
The latest that I have for you and this actually came just a couple of minutes before we went on air, Fredricka as the Russians are now saying, that of the 11 people who have been detained so far, none of them are Russian citizens, Fredricka.
WHITFIELD: All right.
Again, ISIS claiming responsibility. Thank you so much, Fred Pleitgen.
All right. Support is pouring in from around the world meantime, after Catherine, Princess of Wales, revealed yesterday that she has cancer and is undergoing chemotherapy
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
CATHERINE, PRINCESS OF WALES: As you can imagine, this has taken time. It has taken me time to recover from major surgery in order to start my treatment. But most importantly, it has taken us time to explain everything to George, Charlotte, and Louis in a way that's appropriate for them. And to reassure them that I'm going to be ok.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
WHITFIELD: CNN anchor and royal correspondent, Max Foster joining me from outside Buckingham Palace. Max, how is the U.K. reacting?
[11:04:45]
MAX FOSTER, CNN ROYAL CRPED: Well I think after the shock of yesterday, you've got to think that, you know, amongst all of the theories out there, all the rumors out there cancer certainly was not one of them.
So a lot of people -- lot of people is consumed. There has obviously been so much worry over the last few weeks and months. Also, a lot of trolling.
And I think now that everyone's got their answer, they can sort of make sense of why we hadn't seen the princess for all this time. She had to decompress. She had to recover from surgery. She had to start her new set of treatment.
And she's made it very clear that after all of that, the priority was the kids and making sure that they are in as safe an environment as possible, which is why they waited until they broke up from school and went into the school holidays to announce this news to the world.
So I think now it's the case of, you know, what level of privacy should the family be afforded. And I think a lot of people I'm speaking to are saying they should certainly be afforded the privacy that they're asking for.
WHITFIELD: And Max. What is next for Kate? I mean we know she said she is undergoing, you know, and the early stages of her chemotherapy treatment, but do we know anything more about her day-to-day or, you know, in the near future for her
FOSTER: So they've, you know -- they've made it very clear that what we got yesterday and they asked us to put out effectively is all we're going to get on this. There aren't going to be updates in this, you know, she improves suddenly, or gets worse suddenly and the public has a right to know. So we're not being told where they are even at the moment, for example, although lots of flowers, I have to say being laid out in Windsor they for the princess, but we don't even know that she's there right now.
She may appear at some point if she feels ready to, but she's not going to be returning back to work until the doctors have given her that approval. I suspect that will be after she's successfully completed this period of chemotherapy and she's ready to go back to work.
So we're not going to see much of her. We are going to see William. He says he is going to carry on with his public engagements, but he's got to balance that against looking after his wife and now his children who are at home as well.
A lot of pressure on him when you consider his father and his wife have both got cancer now, but he also has to be the front facing of the monarchy alongside the queen. A lot of pressure on her right now as well to represent that continuity that the monarchy is there to present to the world.
WHITFIELD: That's certainly a lot on everyone's shoulders.
All right. Max foster outside Buckingham Palace, Thank you so much.
All right. Back in the U.S. crisis averted on Capitol Hill as U.S. senators worked past the midnight deadline and into early morning hours to pass a spending bill to avoid a government shutdown.
The $1.2-trillion package funds nearly three quarters of the government for the next six months and is now headed to President Biden's desk for signature today.
CNN's Annie Grayer is covering all of this for us. So Annie, what can you tell us about what's in this bill and how this vote eventually came together
ANNIE GRAYER, CNN CAPITOL HILL REPORTER: Well, it came together after a long stalemate in the Senate. What finally broke through was senators came to an agreement on the amendments to vote on for this bill.
So they started voting and finally passed legislation around 02:00 a.m. Now were expecting you to go to the president's desk where he's expected to sign it so were not expecting to see any lapse in funding.
Let's take a look at what's in this bill, including funding for the Department of Defense, the Department of Homeland Security. You can see the breakdown on your screens there. And now that the government is officially funded for the rest of this
fiscal year, we can take a step back and just realize and acknowledge how chaotic and tumultuous this was.
We always knew it was going to be challenging for Congress to fund the government when its divided. But this was really next level. Republicans have such a small majority in the House. Democrats control the Senate, and there was a lot of stalemates between the two.
Part of the issue was Republicans tried to include a lot of partisan measures in these government funding bills. That was a nonstarter in the Senate. So that set off a stalemate between the two sides.
And we saw lawmakers again and again passing these short-term extensions us to get to this point and usually up until the 11th hour.
and beyond that, I mean, Kevin McCarthy lost his job over this Republicans ousted him back in October for his handling of government funding. Speaker Mike Johnson now faces a threat from Congresswoman Marjorie Taylor Greene over his handling of appropriations. We'll see what happens there, but I think right now there's just a sigh of relief on Capitol Hill that they have finally funded the government for this fiscal year.
WHITFIELD: All right. Annie Grayer, thank you so much. We'll see you again at the top of the hour.
Thanks so much for joining us. I'm Fredricka Whitfield. More news coming up.
THE AMANPOUR HOUR our begins in a moment
[11:09:47]
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
CHRISTIANE AMANPOUR, CNN CHIEF INTERNATIONAL ANCHOR: Welcome to the program, everyone. I'm Christiane Amanpour in London.
We begin this hour with something we can all relate to, the pursuit of health and happiness. In an emotional conversation with America's highest-ranking doctor, Vivek Murthy, the U.S. Surgeon General wears his heart on his sleeve, talking about his own struggles with loneliness.
[11:14:50]
AMANPOUR: He came to London for the World Happiness Summit this week, and his timing couldn't be better.
The Global Mind Project claims the U.K. is the second most unhappy country in the world. Meanwhile, in America, a new report says that for the first time, young people there, between 15 and 24 aren't as happy as their older peers.
Dr. Murthy says, social media silos and addictive smartphones are making us more anxious and depressed than ever. And he wants lawmakers to step up now.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
AMANPOUR: Surgeon General, welcome to the program.
DR. VIVEK MURTHY, U.S. SURGEON GENERAL: Thank you so much.
AMANPOUR: You are in England. I mean, perhaps people would be surprised to know that you're here for a happiness summit. In fact, we're talking on International Happiness Day. Why? Why is it needed? What is the problem with the deficit of happiness?
DR. MURTHY: Well, the problem is that, you know, people -- happiness is intrinsically linked to health, you know. When we are not feeling happy, when we're not feeling fulfilled in our lives that affects how we show up at work, at school and our communities.
But it also ultimately has an impact on our physical health. We've now learned over the years that there's a strong connection between our mind and our body, how we feel, and how we are.
And the more we've learned about that we've learned, for example, that issues like loneliness and isolation have tremendous effects in increasing the risk for both depression and anxiety, but also for heart disease, for dementia, and for premature death.
AMANPOUR: Are you surprised and I know that you are Yorkshire-born, in other words, you are a Yorkshire lad, let's say.
Are you surprised that this country, I mean, you know, pretty close to top of the tables in the OECD nations is the second most unhappy, depressed country in the world only Uzbekistan has it worse. We're just going to play a couple of soundbites.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I think a lot of people can be taken down by the weather, but coming from the U.S., from California to here, I love it. I made a choice to move here.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: And people are just getting more and more downbeat by the fact that they're not being by the government, market forces, et cetera. And I think it just yes, it can be really difficult.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We're not that unhappy. I think the older generation is seen to be happier than the younger generation.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
AMANPOUR: Are you surprised?
DR. MURTHY: Well, I'm deeply concerned. But I think one of the key lessons from this is that economic prosperity alone is not the key to happiness. And in fact, what we are seeing is that in many, many countries, which are increasingly modernizing in terms of their economy, their culture, et cetera were actually seeing that unhappiness is growing. And I think that's coming for a few different reasons.
One of them is because we're actually pulling further and further apart from one another with the benefits and efficiencies of modern technology and ways of life.
We actually have fewer friends that we trust. We have fewer relationships we can rely on and that is a direct impact on our happiness and well-being.
The other challenge though is I think technology has been a mixed blessing for us. And I think particularly when it comes to young people, the impact of social media on their mental health has often been quite negative, which is why last year, I issued a surgeon- general's advisory on social media and youth mental health to point out the fact that when young people are using social media as they often are for more than three hours a day, they double their risk of anxiety and depression symptoms.
AMANPOUR: you have, in fact gone even further comparing social media and the tech companies to 20th century car giants, which have produced vehicles without seat belts and airbags until legislation mandated it.
What's happening in social media is the equivalent of having children in cars that have no safety features and driving on roads with no speed limits, no traffic lights, no rules whatsoever.
And were telling them, you know what do your best to figure it out. It's insane.
DR. MURTHY: Yes. That is what we've done to our children is we've put them in unsafe, untenable environments and we're hoping for the best.
And you know, who else we've placed the burden on, are parents. Parents all across the world are trying to figure out how to manage social media for their kids. These platforms are rapidly evolving. Many parents never grew up with them.
And what they're finding is that their kids are often exposed to extraordinary harms whether that's violence and sexual content, whether its content generated by the algorithm that in some cases tells them to harm themselves.
And the experience itself, many young people tell me, has led them to often feel worse about themselves and about their friendships. Yet, they feel they can't get off of it because the features that are built in are meant to maximize how much time we all spend on them.
And that is a profound source of concern for me as a doctor as I watched the profound and disturbing health effects on our kids.
AMANPOUR: Can I ask you a personal question?
DR. MURTHY: Yes.
AMANPOUR: Did you have personal experience as a child with any kind of loneliness that informs your, you know, your zeal for this?
DR. MURTHY: I did Christiane. I struggled a lot with loneliness as a child. I was shy. I was introverted. I didn't have a lot of people who were from similar cultural backgrounds or, you know, immigrant backgrounds. And I ended up feeling quite different and left out a lot.
[11:19:52]
DR. MURTHY: And that was really hard. But what was particularly hard for me, Christiane was the shame that came with that. I came to believe as a kid that something was wrong with me. That's why I was lonely and something was broken. Maybe I wasn't likable. Maybe I wasn't lovable.
And even though my parents love me unconditionally, Christiane, I never told them about these struggles because I felt ashamed.
I have felt this is an adult at times too. These struggles with loneliness. After my first stint as surgeon general, in fact, I was left without a work community.
I had largely neglected my friends and family as I allowed myself to get inundated with my work. And I bore the consequence of that later when I felt profoundly alone and lost.
And I think a lot of people go through these struggles. We don't talk about them often, but they're deep, they're profound, and they're part of the human experience.
If you experienced loneliness from time to time, that's one thing. If you reconnect with people that loneliness goes away. It's when its prolonged, when its deep, that's when it starts to have impacts on our health and well-being.
And if we can just talk more openly about this, if we can recognize the power of showing up in each other's lives, or checking on friends, of putting ten minutes aside each day to reach out to people we care about, we can make a big difference in how connected we are.
AMANPOUR: That's one aspect to the loneliness. The other aspect a you said is the social media. And you, I was staggered to read, that you'd gone to several universities in the United States. And where there should be chattering and connection, there was total silence.
DR. MURTHY: Yes, this is one of the most striking things on the university tour that I did in the United States was just the volume on the campuses and in the dining halls was much lower.
I remember when I was in university that the loudest place on campus was actually the dining hall. We would all finish our classes, come there and everyone wanted to talk, talk, talk and catch up.
But not only is it quieter there because people aren't talking, they're on their devices.
AMANPOUR: They asked you, how are we supposed to even meet people and have conversation?
DR. MURTHY: That's right because it feels intrusive, they would say, to approach somebody when they've got their ear buds in, when they're looking at their phone.
And the harder -- the less you do it, the harder it gets because are social muscle has to be built over time. If we don't exercise it, meaning if we don't interact with other people, start conversations, engage in person, that muscle becomes weaker and in-person interaction becomes harder and harder. And that's what we're seeing with our kids.
AMANPOUR: And so of course, now everybody thinks AI is going to be the replacement, you know, for romance. Not just dating apps, but actual robots and things. What's your view on that?
DR. MURTHY: I think it can be tempting and easy to look at A.I. as a panacea for all ills and it might be easier and more convenient to turn to a chatbot than to go out and build a relationship.
But these are fundamentally different. There is no replacement for in- person human connection. It's how we were evolved over thousands of years. We were wired, hardwired to connect with one another.
And we've got to intentionally build that back into our life now because it is slipping away.
AMANPOUR: Vivek Murthy. Thank you very much for being with us.
DR. MURTHY: Thanks so much, Christiane. Good to be with you.
AMANPOUR: And coming up later in the hour, superstar Olivia Colman on her new movie. And what trolls did before there was Twitter.
But first, the Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu vows to press on with a military offensive on Rafah.
IRC president David Miliband joins us with the humanity consequences after the break.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DAVID MILIBAND, PRESIDENT, INTERNATIONAL RESCUE COMMITTEE: This is about human survival. And that's why it's a failure of humanity.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
[11:23:14]
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
BENJAMIN NETANYAHU, ISRAELI PRIME MINISTER: It would be impossible to complete the victory without the IDF entering Rafah. And this in order to eliminate the rest of the Hamas battalion.
Soon, we will also approve the plan to evacuate the civilian population from the battleground.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
AMANPOUR: Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu there following his latest call with President Joe Biden seeming to wear his dismissal of the president's concerns as a badge of honor.
He also has no plan yet for the safety of more than a million Palestinians sheltering in Rafah or for expanding relief or for getting the Israeli hostages back amid stalled negotiations.
The International Rescue Committee calls the imminent famine in Gaza "a profound failure of humanity and entirely preventable".
David Miliband is president and CEO of the IRC. He's also former British foreign secretary. And he is a child of Holocaust refugees.
This week, he joined me here in the studio to sound the alarm.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
AMANPOUR: David Miliband, welcome back to our program.
MILIBAND: Thank you, Christiane.
AMANPOUR: So, the WHO, you all, everybody is really trying to sound the alarm of what is, we can see by the pictures, this impending famine. Who do you blame for this?
MILIBAND: So, 2.2 million people don't know where their next meal is coming from. And the million who are at risk of famine, imminent risk of famine, in level five represent the fastest degradation, the fastest acceleration of a hunger crisis that's ever been seen.
Now, how do you explain that to get you to your question?
So, you've got a series of impediments, blockages, restrictions being put in place on lorries carrying the most basic humanitarian aid. And it's not getting through to the people who need it.
[11:29:45]
MILIBAND: That's why you're ending up in the situation where what a frankly fourth and fifth best alternatives -- dropping aid from the sky, building a pier that's going to be online in another six weeks. That won't help the people at imminent risk of famine now.
AMANPOUR: What possible reason could a democracy at war have for denying the basic elements of survival?
MILIBAND: Well, no good reason has been given. There's one part of the argument that is important to get clear, which is that some of the trucks are being turned back because of allegations that some of the items on a truck might be quote-unquote "dual use."
In other words, they might have civilian use as well as military use. Let's be clear what kind of items we're talking about. A pair of scissors for use in a health center. And when a pair of scissors gets found on a truck, the whole truck gets turned back.
AMANPOUR: I want to play -- just so that our viewers and you also really hear from at least one person there of the desperate hunger that they face.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE (through translator): What has this child done to suffer from hunger? I cannot find him milk for five shekels or a packet of milk from the agency.
There, the normal milk is for 150. There is no work. There is no food. No drinks. We are eating plants. We started eating pigeon food, donkey food. We are like the animals.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
AMANPOUR: I saw you shaking your head. I mean, this reference to them eating animal food is shocking still every time we hear it.
MILIBAND: Yes. And remember, the International Phase Classification Report that came out the day before yesterday, 25 children have died of starvation already.
This is about human survival. And that's why it's a failure of humanity.
AMANPOUR: You know, I just keep thinking Somalia, Ethiopia -- all these famines that we've covered, all these food deliveries, all these urgent interventions by the U.S. and others to save civilians. Why is this one different?
MILIBAND: Well --
AMANPOUR: Why is this one allowed to happen?
MILIBAND: -- this is different because of the speed of the onset of this famine, because of the virulence of the attacks. And I say that plural, because remember, there are 100 hostages --
AMANPOUR: Yes.
MILIBAND: -- more than 100 hostages.
AMANPOUR: Yes.
MILIBAND: As well as more than 2 million Palestinian civilians in Gaza at the moment. This is -- the depth --
AMANPOUR: So, even more urgency to stop --
MILIBAND: -- of this urgency. But also, we know the depth of this political crisis. Because every humanitarian emergency is also a political emergency.
AMANPOUR: Yes.
MILIBAND: This is a political emergency of really global significance. And it's one where our role as humanitarians is to be the expert witness of what's actually happening on the ground.
Because the testimony that you've managed to play of the Palestinian woman from Gaza mirrors what our staff are seeing on the ground in Gaza, both our own medical staff who are working with medical aid for the Palestinians, who are our partner for our orthopedic surgeons group, our emergency medical teams, but also local NGOs.
We're absolutely clear at the International Rescue Committee, as a humanitarian organization, that the dual humanitarian imperative, the legal and moral humanitarian imperative, of protecting civilians from fighting and of delivering aid to civilians, they can only be met by an immediately enduring ceasefire.
Remember, this is a legal as well as a moral imperative and a legal right that these people have, not just to life and limb to survival, but to aid delivery.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
AMANPOUR: Legal and moral -- incredibly important reminder. You can watch the rest of that conversation online at Amanpour.com.
Coming up on the program Oscar winner Olivia Colman on her new movie. And what trolling looked like before social media.
But first from the archive, my 2012 interview with the last Soviet leader, Mikhail Gorbachev, and how Vladimir Putin set out to destroy his democratic legacy. That's when we come back
[11:33:54]
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
AMANPOUR: Welcome back.
President Vladimir Putin sailed unopposed into a fifth term. The only surprise being the brave protest vote that have been called by Alexey Navalny before his death in prison last month.
Putin's iron grip on power is years in the making, part of his imperial worldview to return Russia to what he considers its glory days. And he spent more than two decades systematically and often brutally reversing any of freedom's advances, rolling back the legacy of his predecessors -- Boris Yeltsin, and especially Mikhail Gorbachev, who famously brought perestroika and glasnost a new openness to the Soviet Union, even before its collapse.
12 years ago, just after a teary-eyed Putin had won his third term I sat down with this last leader of the Soviet Union to talk about that election and how it would speed the decay of Russian democracy. (BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
AMANPOUR: Mr. President, many people call you the father of democracy. Certainly many in the west and many in Russia. But many also saying that Russian democracy, if it's not dead already, is dying.
Why is that? What went wrong?
[11:39:56]
MIKHAIL GORBACHEV, FORMER RUSSIAN PRESIDENT: Well, during the election campaign a lot of critical things were said about democracy in Russia. And you're right, there is a problem.
But democracy is not dying because when 100 people, hundreds of thousands people protest in the public's eye, when the demand free and fair elections, when they are ready to take risks for democracy it means that it is a lot. Because above all, democracy is this participation of citizens.
However, the institutions of democracy or not Working efficiently, not working effectively in Russia because ultimately, they are not free. They are dependent on the executive. They're dependent on what we call telephone more, the rule of the executive.
And that is what the people are protesting against. The want real freedom. They want real democracy. They want a democracy in which the people's voice is decisive.
AMANPOUR: In fact, you've called Putin's democracy or the current Russian democracy an imitation democracy. Do you think that President Putin is committed to any kind of reform? And will the people's voice be heard under his presidency.
GORBACHEV: I said on the eve of the elections that if the president and his entourage in the future will just continue to try to fool the people with this imitation that will not succeed people are protesting and people might protest in much stronger ways if he just continuous his old ways.
I think it'll be hard for him given his nature to do this, but there is no other way for him but to move toward greater democracy in Russia, towards real democracy in Russia because there is no other way for Russia to find a way out of its dead end in which it is now.
AMANPOUR: In the meantime about seven years ago President Putin said, quote, "The collapse of the Soviet Union was the biggest geopolitical disaster of the century. For the Russian people it was a genuine tragedy.
He's talking about what you did.
GORBACHEV: Well, you are stating that I engineered it,
AMANPOUR: Didn't you? GORBACHV: You will not find in any of my speeches until the very end, anything that supported the breakup of the union. The breakup of the union was the result of betrayal by the Soviet (INAUDIBLE), by the bureaucracy, and also Yeltsin (INAUDIBLE). He spoke about cooperating with me, working with me on a new union treaty. He signed the union treaty initials that. But at the same time, he was working behind my back and that of course, is not frankly policy. That is, I think deception.
And let me tell you that our friends, including our friends in the United States, they spoke very sympathetically at the end to preserve some form of union. They said that it should be preserved but at the same time, when the breakup started, they were rubbing their hands. They were rubbing their hands, I would say, below the table.
And by the way, Yeltsin and his team felt support from certain members of the U.S. administrations such Chaney and Gates who establish a channel of communication with Yeltsin.
AMANPOUR: To many people around the world, you are a hero, a once-in- a-generation actor who ended the Cold war. How would you like your people to remember you
GORBACHEV: History is a fickle lady and you can expect surprises from history but I do know that I did what I did and that I can be proud.
AMANPOUR: And you can.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
AMANPOUR: And yet sadly, even today, there are reports that the Kremlin is engineering further crackdowns on dissent and free expression taking a page even out of China's online firewall.
Still to come on the program. Actress Olivia Colman's new movie, a 100-year-old scandal that resonates more than ever today.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Would you return my party pants before the trial next week just in case I don't see you for a long while after the trial?
(END VIDEO CLIP)
[11:44:45]
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
AMANPOUR: Welcome back to the program.
Long before there were Twitter trolls, there was pen and paper, a time when writing offensive letters landed people in prison, and a mystery that gripped the whole of Britain.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP) UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Do you folks hear an old (INAUDIBLE).
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I think it's just jealousy.
[11:49:51]
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Do you feel certain (INAUDIBLE) guilty?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: You already think it's me.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: We're on the verge of making history here.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I was a bit more (INAUDIBLE) once or twice.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
AMANPOUR: The new movie "Wicked Little Letters" is inspired by a real- life scandal and a string of anonymous, poison-pen letters that rocked the sleepy town of Littlehampton on the English coast in the 1920s.
The movie stars Olivia Colman and is directed by Thea Sharrock and they join me now from New York. Welcome to you both and thanks for being on with us.
So Olivia Colman, you play a kind of a buttoned-up lady of the era in this seaside town, this very gregarious Irish young girl comes to the town played by Jesse Buckley. You become friends and then you're dealing with a string of poisonous, horrible letters that are being directed to you. And it's about who did it.
OLIVIA COLMAN, ACTRESS: Edith Swan, who I play on the face of it is a pious Christian, sort of the perfect woman of that time, and very well behaved, lives still with her parents and still weirdly sleeps in the same room as their parents.
AMANPOUR: Oh, that's weird.
COLMAN: Weird and then Jesse plays Rose Goodly, who in that period than everybody looked at as a shocking example of womanhood and an unmarried mother. And -- but these two women become friends. They sort of see each other because we find out that behind closed doors, Edith is not having a nice time. And it's not a particularly loving household.
And this friendship sort of starts up. But then something happens which because I'm not sure what have (INAUDIBLE) -- we don't do spoilers.
AMANPOUR: Ok. So I'm going to take it from there then
(CROSSTALK)
AMANPOUR: I'm going to take it from them because this investigation then starts when you start getting these poison letters, those are the "Wicked Little Letters" of the title. And Rose, Jesse Buckley gets arrested because she is thought to have done this. I want to play one of the clips.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: You're charging her.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Under libel, not a small thing.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: No, it isn't but what's the evidence?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Motive, timeline,
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: (EXPLETIVE DELETED): Similarities in the language.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
AMANPOUR: So I can see you both laughing as you're listening and remembering. And I mean, so much of it was bleeped that we can't figure out what the heck is going on.
Was there a lot of that onset are you all pretty potty mouth and you were allowed to deliver?
(CROSSTALK)
COLMAN: Can we tell the truth?
THEA SHARROCK, DIRECTOR: Yes.
AMANPOUR: Go on Thea
SHARROCK: Olivia is incredibly potty mouth.
AMANPOUR: Is she?
Butter wouldn't melt in your mouth.
COLMAN: Actually -- thank you.
SHARROCK: No we all are.
COLMAN: We all are. We all are --
SHARROCK: proudly. Yes.
COLMAN: Yes. I think it's a nice seasoning of language.
AMANPOUR: And isn't it a bit restrictive when you go to try to promote this thing and you can't really show any scenes or talk that vernacular.
COLMAN: But we -- that's why we don't do live telly. I get quite nervous and I get a bit more sweary when I'm nervous, I'm really trying not to say anything bad now.
SHARROCK: You're doing really well.
COLMAN: I really am.
SHARROCK: You're doing (EXPLETIVE DELETED) amazing.
AMANPOUR: What are your favorite swear words?
COLMAN: Oh, now you see --
SHARROCK: Can we say it?
COLMAN: -- American audiences really aren't keen on my favorite word.
SHARROCK: No.
COLMAN: Can you imagine what my favorite word is?
AMANPOUR: I'm not going to say it. I will be lambasted and pilloried.
COLMAN: Well, I do maintain that it's actually quite a cultured word because Chaucer did use it but (EXPLETIVE DELETED) is my favorite.
AMANPOUR: Oh, ok. Well, we'll be bleeping that. Thea, do you have one?
COLMAN: I thought you might.
SHARROCK: Well, I like to counterbalance. So I go with bollocks.
AMANPOUR: Ok. I think we can keep that one. That's not too bad.
SHARROCK: Ok, great.
AMANPOUR: Yes, yes. Sorry. Thea wins. Olivia, you're clean out of luck.
Thea, you began your career, you know, with amazing theater here in the U.K. and I wonder whether you see in what you've done, not just from where you started, but where you are now whether roles for women are beginning to be taken as seriously as they should, because women are they considered now big box office draws.
COLMAN: I would say yes. And actually I mean research suggests that they've always been big box office draws, but they've chosen to say don't get me started on the pay disparity. But male actors get paid more because they used to say they're drawing the audiences.
And actually that hasn't been true for decades but they still like to use that as a reason to not pay women as much as their male counterparts.
[11:54:49]
AMANPOUR: Yes.
COLMAN: Especially now in our industry.
Sorry, I just hope that --
AMANPOUR: Yes, yes. Let's --
(CROSSTALK)
AMANPOUR: Should I ask you --
(CROSSTALK)
AMANPOUR: Because I want to know what yes. Tell me. Do you have a pay disparity? I mean, you're an Oscar-winning actress, Olivia.
COLMAN: I'm very aware that if I was Oliver Colman, I'd be earning (EXPLETIVE DELETE) a lot more than I am.
AMANPOUR: Really.
COLMAN: I'm not saying I'm absolutely yes, I'm aware of -- I know of one pay disparity which is a 12,000 percent difference.
SHARROCK: Wow.
AMANPOUR: 12,000 percent.
COLMAN: Talk about later.
Yes, do the math. I know.
AMANPOUR: well look on that note Thea Sharrock, Olivia Colman, thank you both so much for joining us, "Wicked Little Letters".
COLMAN: Thank you very much.
SHARROCK: Thank you very much. Thanks for having us.
AMANPOUR: And the movie is out in the U.K. right now. And in the U.S. on March 29.
I'm Christiana Amanpour in London. Thank you for watching. And I'll see you all again next week.
[11:55:39]
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