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The Amanpour Hour
The Life And Murder Of Nicole Brown Simpson; Interview With Musician John Legend On Afghanistan's Music Revolution; Roundtable conversation With journalists Mark Landler And Jonathan Freedland; The Atomic Bomb that Changed Our World Forever; The Cable News Channel That Could. Aired 11a-12p ET
Aired June 01, 2024 - 11:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
[10:59:46]
LULU GARCIA-NAVARRO, "NEW YORK TIMES": And yet we have now gotten word from the first lady, Jill Biden, that the pandas will be restored to us, two beautiful pandas.
D.C. will be paying a million dollars a year for these pandas for the privilege. The ambassador from China to the United States talked about how important it was to have this connection with the United States through the panda --
CHRIS WALLACE, CNN HOST: That is a bargain, $1 million a year for ten years for the delight of the pandas in our town.
GARCIA-NAVARRO: Yes.
WALLACE: Gang, thank you all for being here and thank you for spending part of your day with us. We'll see you right back here next week.
CHRISTIANE AMANPOUR, CNN CHIEF INTERNATIONAL ANCHOR: Hello, everyone. and welcome to THE AMANPOUR HOUR.
Here's where we're headed this week.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
AMANPOUR: The life and murder of Nicole Brown Simpson.
TANYA BROWN, SISTER OF NICOLE BROWN SIMPSON: This documentary is bringing Nicole to life.
AMANPOUR: Her sisters set the record straight on her legacy.
DOMINIQUE BROWN, SISTER OF NICOLE BROWN SIMPSON:: It was ugly, it was horrible, and it was very hard to watch some of the detail.
AMANPOUR: And relive the moment O.J. was acquitted of her murder.
DENISE BROWN, SISTER OF NICOLE BROWN SIMPSON: The floor was just ripped open.
AMANPOUR: Also, this hour John Legend on Afghanistan's answer to "American Idol", and cultural revolution through music.
JOHN LEGEND, MUSICIAN: It really shows you the power of music and the power of the human spirit.
AMANPOUR: Then --
MARK LANDLER, LONDON BUREAU CHIEF, "NEW YORK TIMES": This is the North Korean saying, well two can play this game except we're just going to send over actual garbage.
AMANPOUR: Our roundtable conversation with journalists Mark Landler and Jonathan Freedland on the big stories of the week.
Google's tried to step in and prove that they're indispensable, but it's had pretty rotten results.
JONATHAN FREEDLAND, COLUMNIST, "THE GUARDIAN": Maybe the search engine becomes redundant if you have an A.I. chatbot or something similar to do the job for you.
AMANPOUR: And from my archive, the atomic bombs that ended the Second World War, but changed our shared existence forever as we remember a historic presidential visit. My conversation with one of the few remaining survivors of the Hiroshima blast.
SETSUKO THURLOW, HIROSHIMA SURVIVOR: Then suddenly I saw the bluish white flash and I still have the sensation of floating up in the air.
AMANPOUR: And finally, happy birthday to the Cable News Channel that changed the game forever.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
AMANPOUR: Welcome to the program, everyone. I'm Christiane Amanpour in London.
30 years ago this month, the world was shocked by the brutal murders of Nicole Brown Simpson and her friend Ron Goldman.
Nicole's abusive ex-husband and NFL star, O.J. Simpson was tried and controversially acquitted. Although later found liable for their deaths in a civil suit.
The case became a grotesque media circus and Nicole's life and memory were lost in the noise. A new four-part docuseries starting tonight aims to right that wrong.
Here's a clip.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Who is Nicole? Who is she, because she got lost in this whole thing.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: She wasn't a headline of a tragedy. She was so much more. Her children missed out, the family missed out on the woman that she was becoming.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
AMANPOUR: A little bit of the trailer of the life and murder of Nicole Brown Simpson, featuring new footage and personal stories from the people who knew her best.
At the center of the series are Nicole's three sisters -- Denise, Dominique, and Tanya Brown, who spoke to me from New York just before today's series launch.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
AMANPOUR: Denise, Tanya, and Dominique, welcome to our program.
T. BROWN: Thank you.
DENISE BROWN: Thank you very much.
DOMINIQUE BROWN: Thank you.
AMANPOUR: It is 30 years since the tragic murder of your sister and her friend. And I was struck, Denise, by how this documentary started with you, absolutely point-blank refusing to say the name of the man she was married to.
What is it that you decided had to be the focus of this documentary series?
DENISE BROWN: I wanted to humanize Nicole. I wanted to focus on Nicole and not -- you know, because there's been so many documentaries that have been done about him, about the trial, about everything else.
People would ask us to do documentaries or to do things regarding Nicole, about Nicole, and it would always turn into a negative.
So when I was asked, gosh, it was about 10 years ago when we started thinking about doing something like this. but then the 30ths we just sat down and we said, you know what, should we do it? Let's do it.
Let's humanize Nicole. Let's get her voice out there. Let's let people know. Let's let the world know who Nicole really was.
AMANPOUR: Obviously because of what you're saying, you want to put Nicole, your sister, front and center of this narrative.
[11:04:45]
AMANPOUR: It does also happen to come just after the death of O.J. and I wonder how you internalized that, whether you -- whether it was another triggering moment.
T. BROWN: Absolutely. I got a call from a network and they said, it's -- you know, O.J. died. And I went -- I called my sister Dominique and she turned on the TV. I had just moved, didn't have a TV. She goes, oh, my God, it's true. And then, together, we started to cry. And it was sad. It was like a chapter, a journey of our lives over 50
years was like over.
You know, sadly, you know, it's also an end of the chapter of Nicole's life you know, and memories and some good, many bad from what we've heard from this documentary.
But this documentary is bringing Nicole to life. We just spoke to somebody. She said it absolutely perfectly. She says, this is a love letter to the world. This is letting people know, hello, my name is Nicole, and this is my story.
AMANPOUR: So, as you say, it's really timely that you're doing this. So Dominique, I want to turn to you because we're going to play the first clip of this interview.
And it is about you. You're talking about the early days. You wanted, you know, everybody to see the Nicole that you three knew personally.
Let's just play this clip.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DOMINIQUE BROWN: I feel like I've kept my Nicole really private for so long. She was very, very stubborn. She was very, very determined to a point where she was going to do what she wanted to do no matter what. My mom called her hardheaded.
You know, maybe it's time to rekindle the flame of Nicole.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
AMANPOUR: Dominique, tell us what you'd like to rekindle about Nicole.
DOMINIQUE BROWN: Well, Nicole was a beach girl originally. She was a beach girl, her -- but her life at 18, she had to be an adult. She was -- she got married. She lost a lot of her 20s and 30s.
She didn't have a freedom to experience. She didn't have that kind of a life to experience. And I'd like to rekindle the Nicole that we knew -- a freedom about her, an ease about her, her ability as a mother, her loving nature.
She was just so hospitable and warm and caring. And I think it shows in this documentary. I think it shows in the video clips that we've had that she took, that our father took, that other people took.
And all of these that are compiled together show what a beautiful mother and a beautiful soul Nicole really was.
AMANPOUR: Were you all in the court when the verdict came down in 1995? Were you there, Tanya?
T. BROWN: I'll never forget that day. The way I describe it is like you're going up a hill of a rollercoaster. You're clenching on to -- I remember I was just clenching on to the bench. And I felt like I was going up the biggest hill of a rollercoaster and I just wanted it to come down. And when it -- it's like that anticipation in your gut. You know that the drop is going to be scary no matter which way it's going to be.
And when that verdict was read and that roller coaster cart came crashing down, I just remember I looked to the bailiff to my left and I said, I need to go. And she goes, I can't let you go.
And I just remember I wanted to get outside. I needed to breathe. I wanted like -- my brother, our brother, Rolf (ph), turned to me. He goes, can we go? And I said, we can't go.
DENISE BROWN: I think we were all in shock. I think I was definitely in shock and I couldn't cry. I couldn't -- I had like zero feeling. It was like, wow, the floor was just ripped open, you know, we just fell into a hole.
But yes. No, it was a tough day.
AMANPOUR: After the acquittal, your family lost custody of the children. And I want to play this clip of you discussing that painful moment, Denise. We're going to play this.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DENISE BROWN: We had Christmas Eve with them. And on Christmas Day, he came to pick them up. And it was my mom and I, we were standing out on the driveway.
Oh, God. I'm going to cry again.
So, Justin went up to my mom and he handed her a piece of chocolate. He said, Dita (ph), it's going to be OK. We started walking into the house together, and I just thought that's the nastiest thing anybody could ever do. Couldn't you just wait until after Christmas? Why couldn't you wait another day?
It was just awful. It was just to hurt my mom.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
AMANPOUR: Gosh, Denise, I can see you getting emotional. Just all of you.
[11:09:45]
DENISE BROWN: Yes. No, that was the hardest day. It was really so, so hard and heartbreaking. And you see this little boy just looking up at her and, Dita (ph), everything is going to be OK. And handing her a piece of chocolate, because he knew how much she loved chocolate. And it just -- oh, my God.
DENISE BROWN: My mom and I, we tried to keep a straight face at that point.
And then all of a sudden, we turned around after they turned the corner, we were waving. After they turned the corner, we turned around and just broke down in tears. I mean, that was the hardest day. I mean, just the hardest day ever.
It was so sad. It just breaks my heart to even think about it and it just -- well --
AMANPOUR: What would you like to say, I guess on behalf of you the sisters, to other families who are experiencing this kind of violence, this kind of living in the shadows of not wanting to talk about people who may be in danger right now?
DENISE BROWN: Until we got educated on domestic violence, I did not know how to speak to a victim of domestic violence.
We didn't have it in our family, our parents never fought. They didn't scream and yell at each other.
You know, there were so many signs looking back. You fat pig, when she was pregnant. You know, there was just so much verbal abuse. And then, you know, locking her up in a wine closet, beating her, and going back and watching TV. Going back, I mean, for hours, six, eight hours, she was locked in a wine closet.
You know, so the abuse that she endured was significant. Nicole lived in hell for a lot of times.
But then there was also good times and fun times and you know. And so whenever Nicole was happy, I was happy for Nicole.
But finding out that all of the things that happened even after her murder and the controlling behavior of this guy, it just -- it's this -- people need to do not ask the why question, but they need to be supportive and learn everything they can because victims of domestic violence are usually ashamed of coming forward and talking about it.
And a friend of ours, Ron Hardy, put it the best. He says, Nicole didn't let us know because she wanted to protect her family and her friends. And that makes all the sense in the world to me.
AMANPOUR: Well, to you all -- Denise, Dominique, and Tanya Brown, in memory of your sister, this documentary series is sure to give a huge amount of focus on her, on the issue, and hopefully to help, you know, others as well, educational as well. So, thank you very much.
DOMINIQUE BROWN: Yes, we hope so.
T. BROWN: That's the goal.
DOMINIQUE BROWN: Thank you very much.
T. BROWN: That's the goal.
DENISE BROWN: Thank you.
T. BROWN: Thank you.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
AMANPOUR: It took the very public murder of Nicole Brown Simpson to finally pass the Violence Against Women Act in the United States back in 1995. And the following year, the National Domestic Violence Hotline received its first call.
If you've been affected by any of these issues, that number is now on screen. And you can watch are longer conversation online at Amanpour.com.
Coming up next on the show, risking their lives just to listen to music. The artist John Legend on the shocking images which inspired his new project about Afghanistan's underground creative culture.
[11:13:09]
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
AMANPOUR: Welcome back.
Imagine for a moment a talent show where aspiring singers perform and compete. One that empowers young artists through music and becomes a national obsession. But the talent show I'm thinking of is not "American Idol". This show is now forbidden. It was called "Afghan Star". It was a national hit in Afghanistan first airing four years after the fall of the Taliban in 2005.
I reported on it back in 2009 covering both the competition and how it risks the Taliban's wrath.
In a new 8-part audio series, award-winning musician and producer, John Legend takes us on a remarkable journey to keep that music alive in the Afghanistan that was, and could have been.
And he joined me from Los Angeles.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
AMANPOUR: John Legend, welcome to our program.
LEGEND: Great to see you, Christiane.
AMANPOUR: Listen, we are really pleased to be doing this with you, because it's amazing that you've decided to take on, in a new audio series, something that happened in Afghanistan.
And I really want to know why. What was it about "Afghan Star" that moved you to explain it and rekindle it in your podcast?
LEGEND: Well, I think it's just a beautiful story of the power of music, the power of the people's resilience and really remarkable show that was pretty revolutionary for its time.
People in Afghanistan at that time, as you very well know, were coming out of years of the Taliban being in charge and during the Taliban's reign, prior to the U.S. and the allies' invasion, music was banned. So there were instruments being burned on the streets, records were contraband, CDs were contraband, cassette tapes were contraband, any musical instruments were contraband.
So, all of that stuff if, you got caught with them, would get destroyed, burned, and you may get in trouble and so, there was a lot of pent-up demand desire for people to engage with music again.
[11:19:47]
LEGEND: And when they were able to, in Afghanistan, "Afghan Star" eventually was developed as a show very similar to "American Idol" or "The Voice," which I'm a coach on.
And people were able to vote on their favorite singer. They were so engaged. It really captured the attention of the nation. And it was quite a remarkable show.
AMANPOUR: And your podcast does talk a lot about -- your show delves into the creator of "Afghan Star." His name is Dawood Siddique. And he had -- he has a remarkable story. Tell us a little bit about him.
LEGEND: Well, he was the creator and the host of the show. And then, Saad Mohseni was the founder of Tolo TV and was an important, you know, broadcaster and founder of, you know, really groundbreaking entertainment for Afghanistan during this time of increased freedom. He was there to, you know, provide the entertainment and the connection to the rest of the world.
And, you know, all of that had to be gotten rid of once the Taliban came back into power. But what I find is interesting, and I've gotten to speak with Saad since we made the podcast, is that even though the Taliban's back in charge, it's hard to put the genie back in the bottle.
AMANPOUR: You know, it's great that you just bring that up because we're going to play a little clip from one of the episodes when Dawood Siddique is talking exactly about that, listening to music even under the first Taliban reign.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DAWOOD SIDDIQUE: We have this area in Kabul called Macroyan, they are apartment buildings. Sixth floor, seventh floor, eighth floor.
LEGEND: A lot of these apartments are empty since residents fled the country to escape the Mujahideen. So, it's a good spot for a clubhouse.
Plus, the apartments are so high up that you can blast music without fear of getting caught.
SIDDIQUE: I listened to live music a lot. I partied a lot. We went to this building and we were -- have live music. We have -- preparing a food for us.
That was party. Have I tell you that I listen to more live music during the Taliban than my entire life, you will laugh.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
AMANPOUR: I mean, it is funny and I can see you laughing. The idea that they listen to more music in sort of underground cells, so to speak, is quite indicative of the resistance that Afghans have.
LEGEND: I really think it shows the power of the human spirit and the power of music and people will find a way to connect to music no matter what the regime might say.
AMANPOUR: If Afghanistan is now emblematic of anything, it is of the absolute abuse and restrictions they put on women.
There seems to be a lot now in your industry trying to look inwards to how women are treated. And I'm talking specifically about the latest about Sean "Diddy" Combs, his -- you were on his last album.
Are you also feeling that the idea of the -- you know, the abuse of women, domestic partner abuse, it needs to be really handled once and for all, and not swept under the carpet as it has been for so long?
LEGEND: Absolutely it's something that needs to be brought to light when it happens. And my default stance is to believe women when they make these accusations, and to make sure that we do whatever we can to support women who are making these allegations. And make sure that they're heard and that any kind of accountability and reparations can be made to make these women whole again.
It's shameful what Mr. Combs has been accused of. And, you know, I only want the best for Cassie, but also for all the other victims that have alleged that he's abused them.
AMANPOUR: John Legend, thank you so much. And your new podcast series about "Afghan Star". Thanks a lot for joining us.
LEGEND: Thank you, Christiane. And great to speak with you.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
AMANPOUR: Coming up this hour, will President Biden, let Ukraine hit targets inside Russia with American weapons.
And why is North Korea floating trash across the DMZ?
My roundtable discussion on the biggest stories of the week is next.
[11:24:11]
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
AMANPOUR: Welcome back to the program.
There's increasing pressure on the Biden administration to let Ukraine strike targets inside Russian territory using weapons America has provided. Earlier this week, NATO Secretary General Jens Stoltenberg told me self-defense should include being able to hit legitimate military targets in Russia.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
JENS STOLTENBERG, NATO SECRETARY-GENERAL: Ukraine has right to self- defense and self-defense includes also the right to strike targets outside Ukraine, including legitimate major targets in Russia.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
AMANPOUR: Some European leaders agree. And now the Biden administration signals its position could be shifting.
For more on that and to talk about some of the other biggest stories of the week, I'm joined by Mark Landler. He's the London bureau chief for "The New York Times". And Jonathan Freedland, columnist for "The Guardian" and the co-host of the podcast, "Unholy: Two Jews on the News".
Welcome back to the program.
I always get a giggle.
FREEDLAND: Always. That's what it's there for.
AMANPOUR: That's what it's there for.
And it's good to have these discussions, but were not going to talk about that right now, in fact.
We are going to talk first about the economy, and I want to ask you, Mark first, because we do have an election coming up here in the U.K. and obviously in the U.S. and there seems to be this persistent state of dissatisfaction about the U.S. economy, despite the actual facts.
So what -- and more and more is being written about that and Biden is trying to put his record out there for people.
What do you make of this disconnect?
[11:29:52]
LANDLER: I think that what it reflects, Christiane above all, is the fact that it's been a long time since western countries had a persistent period of near double-digit or in the case of the U.K. double-digit inflation.
It still feels super expensive when you go to the grocery store. Or in the U.S., crucially, when you fill up your car.
And so I think that we are dealing with kind of classic hangover effects from inflation, which is punishing both the conservative party here and Joe Biden in the U.S.
AMANPOUR: But I'm just going to say the economy in the United States is much better than the economy here, to be fair.
This government has a lot to answer for.
FREEDLAND: Yes, I mean, the inflation rate by "British Times" is you'd look with envy, the American right?
But it strikes me that the parallel here is 1992, the last time there were elections in both countries, the U.S. and the U.K. and you saw there the American president going into that election look, saying that the numbers are so much better but there was this lag between the actual stats and the lived experience. I'm always saying that people hadn't so he was tossed out. That is exactly the fear Biden and his team have now.
AMANPOUR: And actually I remember everybody remembers that Clinton who did win always said it's the economy stupid. So it is the number one issue for voters.
If you were, I'm going to give you Trump, if you were Trump's campaign manager, what would your nightmare scenario be right now.
LANDLER: Well, it's not so much a nightmare scenario, but it could be that we have six months to go before the U.S. election, roughly and in that six months if you continue to have a strong financial market, which you do and a continued moderation of prices people might actually start feeling well.
And that's, you know, again the calculation that many people thought that conservatives would make here in this country, wait as long as you can, hope that things turn and the people's sentiment actually improves.
And I think that is enough for the Trump people and they should worry about that.
AMANPOUR: Biden should worry or -- improved.
LANDLER: Trump, yes. It improved.
AMANPOUR: Sorry.
So conversely, if you were Biden's campaign manager, what would your nightmare be now?
FREEDLAND: Your nightmare is that the consumer confidence those figures about feelings that they don't change.
But I think they need to talk to their candidate. They need to get him to start saying not my record So great. Have you seen these statistics? He needs to start saying I know that its taking a long time. I know that even if the inflation rate's falling, prices are higher now than they were a year or two years earlier.
I feel your pain -- another Clinton line from '92 -- I feel your pain, but were getting there. We're turning the corner. Let's not go backwards. That's the message they have to drill into their candidate's mind. AMANPOUR: Another message that Biden is now being, I think pressured
to deliver is from Jens Stoltenberg, from some other European leaders. And even Antony Blinken is beginning to shift his -- his wording on this.
Do you think that the administration will begin to say yes to Ukraine's plea, to be able to actually stop the Russian advance by actually targeting legitimate Russian targets, military targets.
FREEDLAND: It is such a huge Rubicon for them to cross. If you remember right at the start of this war, Joe Biden's message always was we'll help, we'll help, but we're not going to get into anything that looks like were in a shooting war with the Russians. Anything that entangles NATO.
So this is such a huge shift to start going, of course, it will still be the Ukrainians doing it. It won't be American people, boots on the ground, but it would be America allowing an attack on the Russians' homeland.
It's a huge line to cross, but I think they're thinking about it.
AMANPOUR: And of course, the U.S. delay has given him Putin, a great deal of confidence and ability to move forward.
Can I ask you about Hong Kong, though? Everybody is always concerned about China. One way to describe it is to see how China is behaving in Hong Kong. It's just convicted a number of democracy activists. It's the biggest trial, the biggest such conviction and sentencing since it passed this foreign intelligence, this new security law. What does that tell people about --
LANDLER: Well, I mean, it tells people above all that the Chinese authorities through their proxies in Hong Kong are not willing to tolerate even fairly-mild democratic moves.
I mean some of the people here that have been swept up in this and sent to prison are democratic lawmakers who wanted to hold a primary among themselves in terms of selecting candidates to run for the legislative assembly. And for that crime, they have been sent to prison.
So this isn't just leaders of the Umbrella Revolution, which there are. There's a number of these young activists who led the street protests. But there are these, you know, various politicians who have also been swept up, and academics who've been swept up in it.
So I think that overall the message it sends is that we're in a new era in Hong Kong. And even the mildest form of dissent is just simply not going to be tolerated and you can go away to prison for a very long time for what five years ago would have seemed rather trivial activity.
[11:34:49]
AMANPOUR: Yet another nail in the coffin of democracy. Standby because we're going to come back next. And I just wanted to actually just say, of course the government of Hong Kong says it's ended the chaos and restored stability. They would say that, wouldn't they?
We will continue with more in a moment.
And when we come back, we'll be asking about the A.I. arms race and Google' spectacular search fails.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[11:39:54]
AMANPOUR: Welcome back.
Let's pick up where we left off right before the break with Mark Landler and Jonathan Freedland.
Ok. So all these sturm und drang about A.I., there's a huge, big controversy about the existential threat to Google. Maybe no need for a search engine. Google has tried to step in and prove that they're indispensable, but has had pretty rotten results.
FREEDLAND: They did, they've launched -- they've been sort of beta testing their own A.I. product. Finally, let it out into the world, particularly to U.S. users and some comic results, you know, where it recommended that a good idea would be to eat one rock a day instead of your five fruit and veg a day, suggesting pregnant women should smoke. And then if you're asked it, how can I make the cheese sort of stick to the pizza when I'm making a pizza, it recommended a nontoxic glue.
These things always happen with new tech products. There are always these glitchy things, people laugh about it and then in the end, they iron it out.
But Google is in a real race here -- a real battle with Microsoft who invested heavily in OpenAI because they were worried that Google were coming after them. And Open AI with ChatGPT and so on has been pretty successful.
So this is egg on Google's face and the fear that they do have exactly as you say that in a way maybe the search engine becomes redundant if you have an A.I. chatbot or something similar to do the job for you.
AMANPOUR: We're still grappling with all this A.I. stuff.
Let me ask you, Mark, though there had been some kind of weird but maybe dangerous things that have been demonstrated this past week these sort of Chinese robo-dogs with guns attached to them.
Then of course, the hilarity of North Korea sending trash balloons across the border.
LANDLER: Well, I mean, I think in the case of the trash balloons, talk about that for a moment -- there's, as you know, a long tradition of sending leaflet's across from South Korea into North Korea by balloon sort of encouraging people to rise up against their own leaders.
And so for years that was a very, very fraught issue. The South Korean government actually outlawed it in 2020. Some people continue to do it clandestinely.
And so I think this is the North Koreans saying, well two can play this game, except we're just going to send over actual garbage and have it explode and land on your streets and fields and other places.
So I mean, if anything, it's a bit silly, but symbolic of what's an ongoing source of strain between the two Koreas, perhaps not a great harbinger of where we are in that cross-strait (ph), in that relationship.
As for the robo dogs -- again it can be viewed amusingly, but it's something rather serious here, which is that we've seen in some recent -- in many recent wars, including in Israel, Gaza, and in Ukraine, the increased use of drones, of remote-controlled weaponry and this is another example.
It's the latest generation of remote-controlled weaponry. It's a cute- looking robo-dog that has rather lethal machine gun placed on it. And so it's one more example of, if you will coming off the A.I. discussion, how technology will transform warfare and the look of warfare and some of these things that don't seem immediately as fearsome as old-fashion fighter jets or tanks really can be quite lethal as well.
AMANPOUR: Really interesting.
Mark Landler "New York Times", Jonathan Freedland of "The Guardian" -- thank you so much indeed.
And when we come back remembering a historic presidential trip to Hiroshima, and an incredible conversation with one of the few remaining survivors of the nuclear bomb.
Our archive is coming up next.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
THURLOW: I saw the bluish white flash and I still have the sensation of floating up in the air.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
[11:43:38]
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
AMANPOUR: Eight years ago this week, Barack Obama became the first sitting U.S. president since World War II to visit the Japanese city of Hiroshima, where on August 6, 1945, America dropped the first of two atomic bombs. They ended the war, but changed the world forever.
70,000 people died instantly. The death toll doubled before the year was out. Three days later, a second atomic bomb detonated over Nagasaki, killing another 40,000.
President Obama's 2016 visit was a gesture of reconciliation and a call for a world without nuclear weapons.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
BARACK OBAMA, FORMER PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: We have a shared responsibility to look directly into the eye of history and ask what we must do differently to curb such suffering again.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
AMANPOUR: From my archive this week, back in 2020, I spoke with one of the few remaining Hiroshima survivors, Setsuko Thurlow on the 75th anniversary of the bombings.
She told me about the agonizing memories that's still haunted her.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
AMANPOUR: You were just a 13-year-old girl when that bomb was dropped on Hiroshima. What were you doing at the time? And what do you remember?
THURLOW: I remember everything vividly.
What was I doing. I was a 13-year-old Grade 8 student in junior high school and Japan was losing badly. They had to recruit us, the young children to do the work for the army.
We were in the huge wooden building on the second floor, one mile away from the ground zero.
And then at 8:00, we started the morning assembly and when Major Yanai was speaking to us, giving us the cheer pep talk then suddenly I saw the bluish white flash and I still have the sensation of floating up in the air.
And when I regained the consciousness I found myself in total darkness and total silence and I tied to move my body, but I couldn't so I knew I was facing death.
Then I started hearing faint voices of my girlfriends around and they were asking for help from their mothers, from their God.
And then somebody's strong male voice said that, don't give up, don't give up, keep pushing, keep kicking. I'm trying to free you.
So with this man in the dark, I was rescued. I was able to come out of the building but most of the 30 girls were burned to death, alive.
AMANPOUR: You have used your memory and that experience to spend a whole lifetime of activism against nuclear proliferation. And warning about the dangers that only really you and your fellow survivors can talk about the danger of nuclear war.
What do you think now about the state of security in that regard around the world?
THURLOW: We have been kept as hostage for all these years. We, each one of us human being deserve better than this.
I feel very disturbed and as Mr. Obama said before he left the White House, I think the United States is the only nation which has actually used it. So therefore, United States, you have special moral responsibility to lead the work toward a world without nuclear weapon.
That was his favorite expression, that was good. So I am begging American people we just cannot continue to live in this condition.
I have the image of massive, grotesque death. This stays with me. And as Christiane said, yes, those images have been guiding me and not to give up my struggle because I believe in the decent life and human rights of each and every individual on this planet.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
AMANPOUR: Setsuko is now 92 but despite her hopes, the world still faces a nuclear threat. As of today, nine countries have more than 13,000 warheads. The majority held by Russia and the United States.
Now, more than two years into Russia's war with Ukraine, and Vladimir Putin's sporadic nuclear saber rattling the need for arms control, disarmament is more urgent than ever.
When we come back, 44 years since the broadcast news game changed forever. Remembering my conversation with CNN's visionary founder Ted Turner.
[11:53:44]
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
AMANPOUR: And finally, it was 44 years ago today, on June 1st, 1980, that CNN was born.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TED TURNER, FOUNDER OF CNN: I dedicate the news channel for America, the Cable News Network.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
AMANPOUR: Ted Turner's vision of a 24-hour news channel proved all his doubters wrong and change news broadcasting forever. I spoke to Ted back in 2015 at his bison ranch in Montana where he told me the story behind the launch.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
AMANPOUR: Were you trying to create a revolution with 24/7 news or were you just trying to find another brilliant business opportunity? What was your motivating impulse? TURNER: Both. Both. I thought it through very carefully, that's what I
did. I studied the situation and I'd been in the television business for several, several years without a newscast. We were an independent UHF station in Atlanta. But I watched the news on the other channels.
I knew what I was doing. At least I felt like I knew what I was doing and it turned out that I did.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
[11:59:48]
AMANPOUR: And Ted Turner's advice to the next generation of young entrepreneurs -- focus on clean, renewable energy.
He told me it wasn't just the biggest opportunity and crucial for our futures. But that there's a fortune to be made in the process.
And it has to be said that it's been a great privilege working to realize the vision of such a legendary leader.
And that's all we have time for. Don't forget, you can find all our shows online as podcasts at CNN.com/podcast, and on all other major platforms.
I'm Christiana Amanpour in London. Thank you for watching and I'll see you again next week.
