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The Amanpour Hour

Interview With Head Of Bloomberg News Economics Stephanie Flanders; Interview With Chatham House Director U.S. Leslie Vinjamuri; Interview With Musician, Songwriter And Producer Jack Antonoff; Interview With former World Number One Tennis Players Chris Evert And Martina Navratilova; Archive: The Enduring Resilience And Sacrifice Of The People Of Ukraine. Aired 11a-12p ET

Aired August 24, 2024 - 11:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[11:00:49]

CHRISTIANE AMANPOUR, CNN CHIEF INTERNATIONAL ANCHOR: Hello, everyone and welcome to THE AMANPOUR HOUR.

Here's where we're headed this week.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

KAMALA HARRIS, VICE PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES AND DEMOCRAT PRESIDENTIAL NOMINEE: I accept your nomination as president of the United States of America.

AMANPOUR: All fired-up. Kamala Harris reenergizes the Democrats. Why it'll take more than hoped to get her across the line.

Bonded by triumph and tragedy tennis legends, Martina Navratilova and Chris Everts tell me about their unique friendship.

Then singer, songwriter and producer for Taylor Swift and the biggest names in the business, Jack Antonoff on the summer of Eras and his own London tour.

From my archive. As Ukraine goes on the counter offensive inside Russia and celebrates its independence day this weekend. The enduring resilience and sacrifice of its people.

And finally, good trouble immortalized in bronze. A statue of the civil rights icon John Lewis officially replaces a century-old confederate monument.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

AMANPOUR: Welcome to the program, everyone. I'm Christiane Amanpour in London.

With a little over 70 days until the election. Americas political destiny is on the line and everyone overseas is waiting for this as well. Kamala Harris filled the air with hope in Chicago and across America this week, after being officially anointed Democratic leader at their convention.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

HARRIS: Our nation with this election has a precious fleeting opportunity to move past the bitterness, cynicism, and divisive battles of the past.

A chance to chart a new way forward not as members of any one party or faction, but as Americans.

I promise to be a president for all Americans. You can always trust me to put country above party and self.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

AMANPOUR: Celebrities and Democratic heavyweights like the Obamas, the Clintons and Squad stars made the case for why Harris should succeed Joe Biden in November.

But another main message was this, an uphill battle remains.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

BILL CLINTON, FORMER PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: We've seen more than one election slip away from us when we thought it couldn't happen.

HILLARY CLINTON, FORMER U.S. SECRETARY OF STATE: Don't get distracted or complacent.

This is our time, America. This is when we stand up. This is when we break through. The future is here. It's in our grasp. Let's go win it.

MICHELLE OBAMA, FORMER FIRST LADY OF THE UNITED STATES: you need to vote in numbers that erase any doubt. We need to overwhelm any effort to suppress us.

Our fate is in our hands.

BARACK OBAMA, FORMER PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: If we work like we've never worked before, if we hold firm to our convictions, we will elect Kamala Harris as the next president of United States.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

AMANPOUR: So what happens after the Harris honeymoon? Is a hopeful reenergized party enough and is Harris convincing voters that her policies hold up, particularly on the economy.

Here to discuss are Stephanie Flanders who's head of economics and politics at "Bloomberg" and "Bloomberg Economics". And she was at the convention, joins me from there. And from New York is Leslie Vinjamuri the director of the U.S. and Americas Programme at Chatham House. (BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

AMANPOUR: Welcome both of you to the program.

So Stephanie, I want to ask you first as we talk, you are at the convention still and it's winding down.

[11:04:47]

AMANPOUR: So what do you think this week told you and told America about this battle for the mantle of change? Is it Kamala Harris or do you think Donald Trump holds that card, as he says he wants to essentially change the whole establishment?

STEPHANIE FLANDERS, HEAD OF BLOOMBERG NEWS ECONOMICS: I think -- I mean, certainly, there was a lot of talk about 2008. I lost count over the course of the week, the number of people talking about, you know, America is getting the hope back. It feels like 2008 all over again.

You know, that's obviously hopeful from the Democratic faithful. You know, at some level, relative to the previous lineup we had of President Biden and former President Trump, she's change because she's the one who hasn't been president before.

And she certainly also represents, you know, first woman of color, all of those things. They're trying to give the sense that there's change.

But you're right. Every time I'm talking to policy advisers, and this was not a week really for policy works (ph) or detail, we would they -- all the speeches were steering well clear of that.

When you talk to those advisers, you can see in their own minds, they're struggling with that message. How much are they change? How much are they holding on to the legacy of the Biden years, which they consider to have been a success, even if a lot of voters do not.

AMANPOUR: So that's really interesting the way you say they skirted and steered carefully away from actual concrete policy, because we're going to get into that in a moment because it's really vital.

But first, Leslie, I want to ask you because apart from the generational difference that Kamala Harris does represent now, she is much younger than Donald Trump.

There's also the gender issue. But I'm really interested in what you tweeted about the convention, and we're going to just put that up.

Basically, how normal it is to see -- you know, to see a woman now.

"Just take a moment. There's a woman sitting, waiting to speak on Thursday. Her dad from Jamaica, her mom from India, and she's leading the polls to be president of the United States of America, and it seems so normal."

Does it though, Leslie? LESLIE VINJAMURI, DIRECTOR OF U.S. AND AMERICAS PROGRAMME, CHATHAM HOUSE AND FOREIGN POLICY ANALYST: Look, it is for many people going to be a very hard decision to make. There is a sense of it being normal of the style of communication being non-elitist.

And I think this is really critical when you think about the last female to run, Hillary Clinton was really attacked as being part of the establishment and very much an elitist.

And I think the rhetoric and the discourse that's coming out of this campaign is really aimed at being something very different, very every day, very about -- very much about neighbors, everyday America, non- elitists. And so, it has a feeling of normal.

But you're absolutely right, a lot of people when they are ultimately faced with that decision in November it's -- you know, we say it's about the economy, we say it's about prices and inflation, we say it's about reproductive rights, but time and again, it's also, do -- can I imagine that person representing me?

And that is a difficult ask for a lot of Americans, especially those Americans that will swing this election.

AMANPOUR: It's really fascinating.

I want to now switch for a minute to economics. Leslie, you just mentioned Hillary Clinton, but Bill Clinton had his moment on the stage and he did address the elephant in the room, that we have a lot of work, in his words, to do if the Democrats are going to win and the economy has to stay front and center.

Stephanie, I'm going to play a soundbite from his speech where he talks about who historically has created the most jobs for Americans.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

B. CLINTON: Since the end of the Cold War in 1989, America has created about 51 million new jobs. I swear I checked this three times. Even I couldn't believe it. What's the score? Democrats 50, Republicans 1.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

AMANPOUR: Stephanie, do the Democrats have a natural trust when it comes to the economy given those figures?

FLANDERS: You know, I think -- I mean, the economic cycle obviously has a lot to do with it.

You know, the Democrat administrations have been, in recent years, administrations where you saw relatively strong economic growth, certainly under the Clinton years. Those were boom years in retrospect, periods of low inflation as well as job creation.

I think what's frustrated the Biden team is in the last few years they feel like they have a lot of good things to say about the economy, certainly on the job creation front. [11:09:45]

FLANDERS: But the legacy of inflation, which is still sitting in people's bills every week, even though the headline number has gone back down, I think they underestimated how much that would linger with voters. And we've seen that all over the world.

And I think the trouble that we've had, and certainly, this is something that Kamala Harris is struggling with, you know, in her North Carolina speech last week, where she started to lay out some economic proposals, you know, the first half of that speech was still sounding a bit like President Biden's sort of saying to people, you should feel better about the economy than you do. Listen to these great numbers.

But she then pivoted to say, we know that people are still hurting, we know there are things to do. But I think they're going to have to tilt that balance even further over the next few weeks if they really need to -- want to speak to this sliver of undecided voters in places like Pennsylvania.

AMANPOUR: Hold that thought because when we come back, we're going to talk about Trump attacks, deepfake fails and tan suits.

Also ahead, the producer of the biggest hit in pop music over the last decade and then some. Jack Antonoff is on set fresh off the tour with Taylor Swift.

[11:10:51]

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

AMANPOUR: Welcome back to the program and picking where we left off with my panel on the road ahead for Kamala Harris and what it will take to beat Trump.

Stephanie Flanders and Leslie Vinjamuri join me again.

Let's talk a little bit about Donald Trump and sort of the fakes that have been going around. You know, there was this fake thing created by A.I. that showed Kamala Harris, you know, quote/unquote, "at a Communist Party rally". There was a fake banner using the famous, you know, "Uncle Sam wants you to vote for Donald Trump" using Taylor Swift.

Stephanie, you're there. What do you think the effect of that is in today's world, where so many get their -- you know, get their messaging and information from social media?

FLANDERS: Well, I think it's interesting. I mean, obviously, we've had several weeks where I would say the ground game -- the new version of the ground game, which is fought on social media, the Harris campaign had been winning hands down, the memes, all of the things that I'm sure, you know, you've talked about many times, certainly in terms of the young people.

And I have been struck. I mean, those -- my colleagues at Bloomberg who are much more kind of knee deep in sort of seeing some of whether it's A.I. or some of the trolling or some of the attempted kind of negative memes have been struck, at least in the last week at those -- most of those are failing to gain traction.

When you look at how many likes they're getting, how much times -- how much they're being retweeted. For example, there's been quite a lot of repeated efforts to suggest that Kamala Harris is an alcoholic with, you know, frankly, rather absurd fake photos.

They have not gained the kind of traction that you might have feared. But it is clearly, you know, there'll be one of these that does get through. And, you know, it just goes to the, you know, relatively urgent need if you're sitting in the -- on the Democrat side to establish your message early so that, you know, people are kind of pre-inoculated.

They see this stuff and it just doesn't ring true because they already have an idea in their head of what the campaign represents and who she is.

AMANPOUR: I'm going to play this soundbite, Leslie. It goes to Trump's historic nastiness when it comes to his opponents, particularly women. And this is his daughter-in-law, head of the RNC, talking about Kamala Harris in a very, quote/unquote, "trashy way".

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

LARA TRUMP, CO-CHAIRMAN, RNC: It reminds me of there was this bag that a very famous designer designed, this is several years ago, and it literally was a trash bag, but they sold this thing for like $2,000 thinking that people would actually buy it. It's a similar situation with Kamala Harris.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

AMANPOUR: I mean, it is in fact grotesque that kind of personal ad hominem attack. Do you think the sort of statute of limitations on Trump's nicknames, the nasty words he calls people, even people have said he's losing his sense of humor. Do you think that that is past its sell-by-date now?

VINJAMURI: No, because you know, this is a -- and again, it's an election where people are largely locked in to their candidate, especially people who support Donald Trump.

One of the -- you know, the lines that I think is potentially -- actually, the most dangerous is this attempt to frame her as a socialist, as a communist.

I have heard in my conversations with what we might call working class Americans, middle class who -- you know, whose interests are being represented to the extent that we know Kamala Harris' economic policies, their interests are being represented, and they are concerned that she's you know, giving away the store for free.

So some of that attempt to frame her as a socialist is -- you know, might work. And that, I think, is going to be very tricky and important avenue that the Democrats are going to have to work, is persuading people that you can do things for people, that you can give them, you know, $25,000 towards their first house and it's not going to tank the economy.

That is really a big challenge, I think, going forward.

AMANPOUR: And Stephanie, I have to ask you, I don't know, a frivolous question, or is it? What is the obsession with the tan suit? Kamala Harris turned up in that the first night by a great designer.

[11:19:47]

AMANPOUR: Then we've got, you know, Barack Obama in his tan suit from years ago. What is going on? Why does that matter?

FLANDERS: Well, I could ask you the same question. Why would you even ask me about it?

AMANPOUR: You're right. Why am I asking?

FLANDERS: I think -- I think there's a lot of little -- you know, you mentioned Taylor Swift. I know from my very obsessive Swifty daughter that there's a whole lot of different levels that go on on social media in terms of like what they call clowning, little clues that they place for people.

And you never really know whether you're just reading way too much into, you know, a dress that she wore or, you know, a particular broach, or whether it is all part of some secret language.

But you know what? It all involves people talking about Kamala Harris and talking about her looking pretty great. So, I think if that's the worst that we get, the Democrats will be doing pretty well.

AMANPOUR: And could we just for the record say plenty of Republicans have worn tan suits, they look great. Tan suits are great.

Up next on the program -- thank you so much, Stephanie and Leslie, for joining us.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

But next, the producer to Taylor Swift, Kendrick Lamar, Lana Del Rey, Sabrina Carpenter, and so many others, Jack Antonoff talks about closing out London with Taylor Swift and his band's new album.

[11:20:57]

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

AMANPOUR: Welcome back. In my letter from London, this week, it is being hailed as the summer

of Taylor Swift. The pop sensation just wrapped up the European leg of her "Eras Tour" with a record-breaking eighth performance at London's Wembley stadium.

More than 1.2 million fans attended her concerts in the U.K. alone, bringing in an estimated $1 billion to the economy. It is incredible.

The grammy winning producer Jack Antonoff, was on stage with her for that final performance, and he's been working with Taylor Swift since 2013, produced most of her last five albums and he's also touring with his own band, Bleachers, here in the U.K. this month.

When he came to the London studio this week, I asked him about surrounding himself with powerful women like Taylor Swift.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

CHRISTIANE AMANPOUR, CNN CHIEF INTERNATIONAL ANCHOR: Jack Antonoff, welcome to the program.

JACK ANTONOFF, MUSICIAN, SONGWRITER AND PRODUCER: Thank you for having me.

AMANPOUR: I have a lot to ask you, but I do actually want to start by your appearance on the stage with Taylor Swift, which was pretty amazing. Did you expect it? What was it like?

ANTONOFF: I mean, it's -- I'm the least nervous the more surreal it gets. I'd be more nervous talking to you than being in front of that many people.

AMANPOUR: You seem to be a seriously cool guy when it comes not just to music, but who you produce. And especially you produce a lot of very powerful women.

And I don't know whether you started by identifying women or whether it was just something that came to you. How did it start with Taylor Swift, for instance?

ANTONOFF: That started as organic as possible. We literally met completely outside of even anything really industry like kind of through friends.

I'm just playing music that we liked. One thing leads to another.

AMANPOUR: Look, you've worked on 11 of her albums, but beyond that, you've won a lot of Grammys. And particularly, you've won producer of the year for the last three years.

ANTONOFF: Yes, it's bananas.

AMANPOUR: What is -- I don't even know whether you can, but can you say what is more satisfying, what you like better? Is it producing? Is it being a musician? Is it being a performer? Is it doing your own stuff? ANTONOFF: I've never experienced any of them without each other. So, I don't know. I know for other people, they're very different.

You know, I have a lot of friends who love being in the studio and despise being on the road. Or some people get exhausted by the studio and need to perform.

I -- they're very much one thing to me. I've never been in the studio and not thought about live. I've never been on stage and not imagined what I was going to do next in the studio.

AMANPOUR: You seem quite shy in your interaction. And you are -- I mean, maybe you're not. But you have associated yourself, both in your professional life and in your personal life, with what I said earlier, with some very strong, prominent women.

And not just famous women, women who are incredibly -- women of substance, whether it's the musicians we've talked about, whether you've dated people like Scarlett Johansson, Lena Dunham. You're married now to Margaret Qualley, who's in an amazing new film called "The Substance", which is not yet out.

ANTONOFF: Yes, "The Substance" is outstanding.

AMANPOUR: Yes, I'm waiting to see it. It's really, really edgy. You feel totally secure with very strong women and successful women?

ANTONOFF: I think so. I don't know. I mean, I'm not -- I don't feel --

AMANPOUR: What attracts you to that lot?

ANTONOFF: I've always felt very comfortable around people who are comfortable with themselves and that's usually people who end up having some power because that's a nice trait.

But yes, I just like -- I like people who know what they want to do and hear what they hear and just want to go find it. And then we can have our big crisis of the day over what we should have for lunch, not about what we want to say to the world.

AMANPOUR: One of the things you did say to the world through your profession was the "Getaway Car". You have that song, it went viral, and it was part of the joint appearance the other night. And I'm just going to play a little bit of it.

[11:29:45]

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

(MUSIC)

TAYLOR SWIFT, SINGER: I'm in a getaway car, and you're in the motel bar, or like --

ANTONOFF: Yes, I'm in the getaway car. Left you in the motel bar. Took the money -- SWIFT: Took the money in the bag and I stole it --

ANTONOFF: Took the money --

SWIFT: Took the money in the bag and I stole the keys. That was the last time you ever saw me.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

AMANPOUR: You were super energetic in that clip that we just showed.

ANTONOFF: Yes.

AMANPOUR: You -- it's the story behind the story, right?

ANTONOFF: Well, I think the reason why that clip has had such a big life is because, you know, there's -- everyone wants to tell the story of the studio. You know, we see it in film and TV all the time and often the story is sensationalized and there's, you know, candles and heroin and the -- that version.

It's not really true that, you know, the studio is an interesting place, but it's a place that you plant yourself in and you -- almost like fishing or something, you're like waiting to catch something and you're trying all these different things.

I think the reason why that video has such a big life is because it's one of the few videos I've ever seen and I happen to be in it, but that really captured the moment when two people get the idea for a thing.

And I don't know why she was recording that, but she was. And it's the only video I've ever been a part of where I'm like, yes, that was really the moment. That was it.

When we put this together and this, and it speaks to that one plus one equaling a billion. You see two people kind of one-upping each other. And those are those moments when you really get the song.

AMANPOUR: I'm going to play another one, your song "Modern Girl", which is on your new album. You kind of joke -- I think you're joking, there's certainly New Jersey lyrics. We're going to play that.

ANTONOFF: I think you're joking.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

(MUSIC)

(END VIDEO CLIP)

AMANPOUR: It's really danceable. What's pop music hoarder?

ANTONOFF: Oh, well, that whole -- that whole -- you know, I was sort of -- so that song started as me trying to take the piss out of the world. And then, whenever I'm going like that, I always think I should go like that. So, I started writing it --

AMANPOUR: You get that criticism?

ANTONOFF: Pop music hoarder?

AMANPOUR: Yes.

ANTONOFF: Oh, not in that way. But I wanted to create a just a half a verse that was sort of like, all, like, the ways you could take the piss out of me. So, like, New Jersey's finest New Yorker seemed funny to me.

AMANPOUR: Yes.

ANTONOFF: It just seems like an absurd statement. Unreliable reporter -- that speaks to like, all the hypocrisy of being a writer.

You know, in my version of writing, there's no fact checking. And there shouldn't be. It's whatever I feel, whenever I feel it. And some of the stories are brutally honest and some of them are utter distortions.

Pop music hoarder, I think that -- I was, you know, taking the piss out of the idea that as like people who, you know, feel like I keep popping up in all these places.

And then, some guy playing quarters just speaks to like, hey, I'm just some person also.

AMANPOUR: Jack Antonoff, thank you very much.

ANTONOFF: Thanks for having me.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

AMANPOUR: The inimitable Jack Antonoff.

And coming up bonded by triumph and tragedy, tennis legends Martina Navratilova and clever tell me about the unique friendship.

[11:33:15]

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

AMANPOUR: Welcome back to the program for an extraordinary conversation with two tennis trailblazers, Chris Evert and Martina Navratilova.

Their rivalry on the court is the stuff of legend, but their friendship off court is just as compelling. Over the past half century, they have shared a unique bond, one that's seen them through the highs of Grand Slam victories and the lows of personal tragedy, including the recent battles with cancer.

In June, the duo presented Iga Swiatek with her trophy after she won the French Open and her fifth Grand Slam. And I asked Evert and Navratilova to reflect on their complicated relationship.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

AMANPOUR: Chris Evert, Martina Navratilova, welcome to the program.

I want you to take me back just for a moment to the finals of the French Open when you both presented in a joint capacity, the female trophy. It was to Iga Swiatek as she had won.

What was it like, let me ask you first, Chris, to relive a moment that you first won the French Open 50 years ago, 1974.

CHRIS EVERT, FORMER WORLD NUMBER ONE TENNIS PLAYER: I have to say, I have to be honest, I was not on the roster to present that trophy on this big 50th for me. Martina was on the roster. And when Martina heard that it was my 50th anniversary, she quickly went to the French Federation and said no, no, no, no, no, no. Chrissy has to present this with me. It's her day too.

So, that's how generous of a friend she was. And we both got to present it, which was great.

So, it kind of was glorifying, you know, not only the fact that it was my 50th, but also of our rivalry, you know, over all those years. And somehow some of our most interesting matches were at the French Open. So, it was quite a thrill.

[11:39:49]

AMANPOUR: Martina, that's an incredible anecdote that you, you know, suggested that Chrissy join you, but it does talk about your relationship, your friendship, your rivalry.

And I just want to first ask you about the epic battles you fought across the net at Roland-Garros. What stands out to you about some of those matches?

MARTINA NAVRATILOVA, FORMER WORLD NUMBER ONE TENNIS PLAYER: Oh, my goodness. There's so many.

I mean, I lost to Chris in '75 in the finals. And then we played doubles together and we warmed up for the final together because we were the only people left there and we were such good friends. We're like, OK, we'll just warm up for the final together.

AMANPOUR: Ok. So --

NAVRATILOVA: And then she, of course, wiped the court with the --

AMANPOUR: Your rivalry, your friendship also crystallized and took a whole different turn, I think, when both of you got cancer practically at the same time.

Chris, walk us through a little bit of your part of this story, how you both were diagnosed, what it meant to your friendship. EVERT: The last few years of our rivalry is when we really, really got tight. Because, Christiane, we were the only ones left in the locker room every Sunday during the finals.

And we would look at each other and we finally figured out, you know, we're not only competitors, we're people. And Martina had feelings and Martina had a private life and Martina had emotions and so did I. And we were very vulnerable with each other those last Sundays that we played in the final.

So I mean, I think that's what started the ball rolling. And then, ironically, you know, Martina got -- had -- got cancer first. But I mean, I can only tell you about my journey was having ovarian cancer.

My sister, Jeannie, died from it. And I found out that I had the BRCA gene. So, you know, I went in for preventive surgery to basically get a hysterectomy because I had a 40 percent chance of getting ovarian cancer.

And they found out that I did have ovarian cancer and I didn't -- wasn't feeling anything. I mean, that's why this ovarian cancer is so insidious and so sneaky because you don't feel anything.

Meanwhile, Martina was fighting her own battles with breast cancer twice, I believe, and throat cancer.

And so, we were going through -- you know, she was going through radiation and chemo, I was going through chemo, but we were staying in touch.

And just thinking about how ironic our life has been, where things are happening to us, the same things are happening to us simultaneously and that's really how we got so close.

AMANPOUR: What did your friendship mean in terms of, you know, the support that you needed to get through this?

NAVRATILOVA: So, we had this connection for a long time, but this cancer really, in a lousy way, brought us even closer together because we had so much empathy for each other for such a long time.

And now, we were fighting for each other instead of against each other. And so, that support was, I think, that much more meaningful and strong.

Chris went -- my cancer in 2010 was nothing compared to what Chris went through two years ago and then mine went last year. And then Chris returned again this year. So, she kind of bookended me.

And we kind of have that inner radar of when to call or when to text and say, how are you doing? How's it going? What can I do?

It was -- it was quite extraordinary. We're almost like twins, you know, like, at my lowest, when I felt the worst, there was Chris calling or texting and just pick me up right up. And I try to do the same for her. (END VIDEOTAPE)

AMANPOUR: That's just a slice of our much longer interview that you can watch online at Amanpour.com, along with all my conversations.

And when we come back as Ukraine fights further into Russian territory and celebrates independence day this weekend, we go back to my archive for the resilience and the sacrifice of its people since this full- scale war began.

[11:43:48]

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

AMANPOUR: Welcome back.

It's independence day in Ukraine. But rather than celebrating, the nation is still fighting for its very existence. Their forces continue the recent push into Russian territory this week. But this surprise attack has reportedly derailed talks aimed at halting strikes on energy infrastructure on both sides.

Russia's constant pummeling of the power grid means that Ukraine may simply not have the energy to get through the coming winter and more extensive daily blackouts are forecast.

It was bad enough during the first winter of war when I reported on how Kyiv residents were coping then and also saw just how resilient the people remain hell-bent on defending their identity.

So on this independence day, we go back to the archive.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

AMANPOUR: Week four of Ukraine's new struggle against the cold and the dark. Rolling blackouts blanket Kyiv, nighttime is spooky and we are entering this high-rise apartment complex to see how the residents are coping with Russia's constant attacks on key infrastructure.

Up to the 12th floor, no light in the stairwell, but our cameras and no elevator.

[11:49:48]

AMANPOUR: Yulia Mendel (ph) meets us, hobbling down on crutches and the foot she fractured by tripping over the steps the first night of the blackouts.

She's a journalist and a former press secretary to President Zelenskyy.

Hi, how are you?

Together we visit her neighbor Natalia, with her 18-month-old daughter, Lina. Just one of a whole generation of war traumatized Kyiv kids, especially with the constant air raid sirens. Is she stressed?

NATALIA HORBAN, KYIV RESIDENT: She is like, oh, oh. She's pointing to the window so that she knows that something goes wrong.

AMANPOUR: The two of them are recovering from a two-hour ordeal trapped in their tiny elevator when the power went out. Now, all over Kyiv residents are putting small care boxes inside with waters, snacks, and antianxiety medicines. By the time we sat down to talk the power popped back on again after

nine hours on this day.

Do you feel demoralized? Do you feel like ok. All right. Enough already. It's time to surrender and negotiate.

JULIA MENDEL, JOURNALIST: No way. Look, we have passed through the hardships of 90s and we didn't have light, water, heating and everything for hours and hours every day.

And that then was desperate because we didn't -- we knew it was about poverty. Now it's about war. And we know that we must win.

AMANPOUR: Winning this phase of the war comes with weapons like these to charge phones and any other emergency equipment.

HORBAN: It's just the most important thing here to have in Ukraine, it's a power bank. Without it, you don't have any connection and it's the most important now to know that your relatives are ok.

AMANPOUR: They tell us generators are almost all sold out and super expensive now as well as candles, torches, and headlamps. Natalia has improvised light from a water bottle and her iPhone.

Downtown, it's dire for businesses to every beauty salon operates on hairdryers for that blowout. And of course, water to wash out the shampoo and the dye.

Olena (ph) is taking her chances today.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: After we finish dyeing it, I might have to go home to dry it. But its fine.

AMANPOUR: From Kharkiv to Kherson, Odessa to Donbas museums, opera houses, and art have been targeted, looted, and destroyed.

And yet a heroic effort to save and protect this heritage has been underway since the first missile struck.

Here at the national museum of the history of Ukraine, an exhibit on this past year of war. And especially reminders that so many Russian targets were clearly marked. Children, people live here.

Former deputy culture minister, Olesia Ostrovska-Liuta tells us that across the country, many curators took shelter inside with their collections. OLESIA OSTROVSKA-LIUTA, FORMER DEPUTY CULTURE MINISTER: That's the situation of virtually every Ukrainian museum. You can't have objects from the collections, museums, objects on display.

They have to be secured. They have to be cared for.

AMANPOUR: The installation hanging in this stairwell reminds us the war actually began in 2014 with Putin's annexation of Crimea, invasion of Donbas, an attempt to crush an independent nation calling this Russkiy Mir (ph), greater Russia.

Olesia calls that absurd.

OSTROVSKA-LIUTA: And I don't think this is Ukrainian identity that is the problem at all in this war. It's Russia's identity.

If Russian identity is imperial, Ukraine is essential part of it. But if you rethink Russian identity as a non-imperial identity, then you do not need Ukraine, Poland, Baltic states within your realm.

AMANPOUR: That of course, is the point of Putin's war, to crush this democracy whose now world-famous flag was first publicly raised in 1990 just ahead of independence.

Before that, the Soviets would have jailed anyone caught carrying it. Today Olesia says it remains a symbol of courage, resistance, and statehood.

Nobody a year ago thought that this country would still be standing. I mean, we thought that that flag would not exist anymore. That this would be Russia again.

OSTROVSKA-LIUTA: And we didn't think that at all.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

AMANPOUR: And on this, its 33rd independence day Ukraine's continued fight into Russian territory is proof that people like Olena (ph) are not letting anyone, including Putin take their flag away from them anytime soon.

When we come back, good trouble, immortalized in bronze. The civil rights icon replacing a century-old confederate monument.

[11:54:41]

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

AMANPOUR: And finally, the state of Georgia is making a statement this weekend, down with white supremacy, up with civil rights. A statue of John Lewis, the late Democratic congressman and civil rights champion, will be officially unveiled today. Lewis will replace a century-old confederate monument that stood on this Georgia square.

[11:59:50] AMANPOUR: That memorial was removed four years ago after nationwide protests erupted across the United States following the murder of George Floyd.

Now a bronze statue of Lewis stands tall commemorating his life and fight for justice and equality. It's a living and timely symbol of "We shall overcome".

And that's all we have time for this week. Don't forget, you can find all our shows online as podcasts at cnn.com/podcast and on all other major platforms.

I'm Christiana Amanpour in London. Thanks for watching and I'll see you again next week.