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The Lead with Jake Tapper
Soon: President Biden's High-Stakes News Conference; Sources: Powerful Democrats Furious Biden's Decline Was Hidden; Radio Station Edits Biden's Answers After Campaign Request; Trump: "I Have No Idea Who Is Behind" Project 2025. Aired 4-5p ET
Aired July 11, 2024 - 16:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
[16:00:00]
JESSICA DEAN, CNN HOST: Pageant organizers say competitors had to answer questions like real human pageant contestants, and they weren't judged on their looks alone, but on their creators' use of A.I. tools as well. Around 1,500 programmers from around the world entered and Kenza Layli's very real creator won $5,000.
We're just not ready for A.I. We're not ready.
BORIS SANCHEZ, CNN HOST: No, no, it's uncanny. You can tell it's not real, but it's just real enough that it creeps you out.
DEAN: Yeah.
SANCHEZ: Yeah.
DEAN: Yeah. We'll leave you with that.
SANCHEZ: We hope we haven't creeped out.
DEAN: We're real. Thanks for being with us.
THE LEAD WITH JAKE TAPPER starts right now.
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JAKE TAPPER, CNN HOST: Perhaps the most critical press conference in President Biden's 54-year long political career.
THE LEAD starts right now.
All eyes on President Joseph Biden with an immensely consequential news conference set to start soon.
Ahead, an avalanche of new reporting, revealing anger and shock over efforts to hide President Biden's decline. This hour, I'll speak with one of the latest House Democrats calling on the president to drop out of the 2024 race.
Plus, with President Biden still commander in chief, what can he actually achieve on the world stage? White House adviser John Kirby will be here on THE LEAD. And new evidence. Donald Trump may know a lot more about the controversial Project 2025, even after he said again today that he knows nothing about it.
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TAPPER: Welcome to THE LEAD. I'm Jake Tapper.
We start in our 2024 lead, of course, with a high-stakes day for President Biden. In just a few hours, the president's going to hold a news conference and take reporters questions as the three-day NATO summit ends, the world will see how President Biden fields and answers questions live without a teleprompter after his disastrous debate performance two weeks ago today, and a taped TV interview and a handful of call-in interviews that certainly did nothing to quell concerns.
Biden's big moment today overshadowed by new bombshell reporting from multiple outlets reporting that the president may be losing the support of even his closest aides.
From "The New York Times", quote: Some Biden advisers are discussing how to convince him to step aside.
From NBC News: No one involved in the effort thinks he has a path. Biden insiders say the writing is on the wall.
Another from "The New York Times", quote: Biden campaign quietly tests Kamala Harris versus Trump.
And another headline from our own team here at CNN: Angry and stunned Democrats blamed Biden's closest advisers for shielding public from full extent of the president's decline.
White House and the campaign of Biden trying to clean up the Biden mess today, pushing back against this new reporting, sending top campaign officials to Capitol Hill to meet with lawmakers to try to convince them that Biden's capability. But House Democratic Leader Hakeem Jeffries of New York today refused to answer questions as to whether President Biden should stay in the race instead saying this:
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
REP. HAKEEM JEFFRIES (D-NY), MINORITY LEADER: As House Democrats, we have engaged in a process of talking to each other those conversations have been candid comprehensive.
Our conversations have been candid, comprehensive and clear-eyed, and they are ongoing.
Democrats are engaged in conversations with House Democrats at this moment in time. Those conversations have been candid, clear-eyed and comprehensive.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
TAPPER: Candid, clear-eyed, and comprehensive. Got it.
This is just the latest odd chapter in this sad tale Democratic elected officials refusing to publicly say that President Biden is the best person to lead the Democratic ticket, trying in any number of ways to dodge a direct answer.
Take a listen.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
GOV. GRETCHEN WHITMER (D), MICHIGAN: We have a president who's gotten the nomination, who's earned it, who is going -- barreling toward convention. And unless he decides something differently, this is the field and this is the high-stakes we're in.
REPORTER: Does he have a path to victory though?
SEN. RICHARD BLUMENTHAL (D-CT): I still need to see the data and analytics that --
REPORTER: You didn't see data?
BLUMENTHAL: -- show me the path to victory.
REP. GERRY CONNOLLY (D-VA): We need to be prepared to make hard, cold decisions.
MANU RAJU, CNN CHIEF CONGRESSIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Will Joe Biden still be your candidate next week?
CONNOLLY: I don't know. Events are unfolding very fast.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
TAPPER: We start with CNN's MJ Lee at the White House.
And, MJ, you helped break that CNN reporting that there are a lot of Democrats furious, furious with Biden advisers, furious with them. What -- tell us more.
MJ LEE, CNN SENIOR WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: Yeah, you know, one thing that we have heard so consistently since that CNN debate, some two weeks ago was how shocked Democrats across the board were by the president's performance and seeing him be so halting and dazed at moments on that debate stage, you know, we talk to a lot of folks who said, of course, we know that he has aged. Of course, we had seen some signs, especially over the last year of his decline in terms of his physical stamina, his mental clarity.
[16:05:02]
But that version of the president that we saw on the debate stage, they said was basically unrecognizable. And what my colleagues and I have really reported on is there is a lot of anger and the blame that is being placed on the inner circle of advisers and family members around the president, and what this people say is this really painstakingly choreographed and stage-managed daily operations at the White House around the president that is set up specifically designed to prevent the public from often seeing the president in these extended, unscripted settings.
And one thing that many of the books that we spoke with that they are so furious about is this idea that when people have gone to these inner circle of advisers around the president to express some of these concerns, that they were not taken seriously, or really brushed aside.
This is what one top Democrat told me. They said: Everyone who expresses any level of suspicion or contrary views, they call everyone and they beat the shit out of them and say, stay on message.
Now, it is not just the inner circle of advisers that is getting a lot of this heat. It is also members of the president's family who, of course, have been up there, are really standing by the president's decision to so far stay in this race.
TAPPER: And what is the White House saying in response to all of this? Because it's a barrage of a governor, a senator, a House member, and it's pretty typical, none of them saying, yes, he's the best candidate for us to keep the White House, not one of them saying -- I mean, they're being as polite as they can be really.
Is there any sense inside the White House or the Biden campaign that they're hearing what is being strongly implied in public?
LEE: Yeah. I mean, we got an extensive response from the White House to our story defending the breadth of the president's recent travels, his engagements with the press, certainly his record in the first three-and-a-half years in office. They also provided comments from senior officials in the administration, basically saying the president is sharp.
One thing that White House spokesperson Andrew Bates said in a part of the statement was: Joe Biden has always said that it is fair for reporters to ask about his age.
I do have to disagree with that, Jake. The president has not always indicated that he believes those questions are fair, having been on the receiving end of the president declining to acknowledge and dismiss when he has been questioned about polls showing that so many Americans do have questions about his age and his fitness. And I guess that idea is about to be put to the test in a couple of hours because when he faces those questions at this press conference, we certainly expect that those issues are going to be really top of mind and central to that press conference.
TAPPER: MJ Lee, thank you so much. Appreciate it.
Let's go to Capitol Hill now.
Top members of the Biden campaign team have been trying to quell a potential revolt, meeting with congressional Democrats today, definitely trying to tamp down a sense of panic.
CNN's Manu Raju's on the Hill for us.
Manu, tell us more about these meetings. Who from the Biden team is on the Hill today?
RAJU: Yeah, there are three senior Biden advisers. That includes Mike Donilon, Steve Ricchetti, and the Biden campaign chair Jen O'Malley Dillon meeting with Senate Democrats behind closed doors over lunch. And this turned into more of a listening session more than anything else.
Senators, I'm told spoke more than they did. In fact, my colleague Lauren Fox and I are learned that polling data, in fact, was not presented to the senators in this meeting. Instead, it was mostly senators who spoke and the campaign responded by talking about Biden's upcoming campaign schedule, his upcoming press conference, his upcoming interview on Monday, all of which they tried to reassure these Senate skeptics, which didn't seem to work.
And talking to members, they came out. They also made clear hear that Biden's team did not indicate that the president would drop out of this race.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
REPORTER: Do you think your colleagues' concerns have been addressed after meetings with his campaign officials?
SEN. JOE MANCHIN (D-WV): Well, I think, I mean, they got an awful lot of questions. Yeah, and got a lot more questions answered.
SEN. TAMMY DUCKWORHT (D-IL): Look, I think they've got a good plan going forward. He's our nominee. He's our president. He's going to win.
I'm a campaign co-chair and I have every confidence in the president.
SEN. RICHARD BLUMENTHAL (D-CT): I still need more data, more analytics that show a path to success. And what's more important than my concerns are the questions that have been raised by the American people.
SEN. PETER WELCH (D-VT): I have naturally front in mind, but I really appreciate the White House coming over.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
RAJU: So, that last comment come from Peter Welch, who became the first Democrat today to call for Joe Biden to step aside from this race. He indicated there though, first Senate Democrat, I should say, he indicated there though, Jake, his mind has not been changed in the aftermath of that meeting.
TAPPER: Yeah. And we're now up to a dozen congressional Democrats House and Senate, publicly calling for President Biden to step aside.
RAJU: Yeah. That's Brad Schneider became the 12th total in all of Congress.
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And the sentiment though behind closed doors, is much more severe. In fact, I am told that after this press conference, if it does not go as well -- go particularly well for the president or after the NATO summit, expect more Democrats to come out, the more trickle could come out day by day by day.
And that could lead to more pressure on Biden and his team. The question is, will that change the president's calculus? Because there is enormous concern, even though that is a small fraction of the overall House and Senate Democratic members of Congress, it is still does not represent the full scale of the concern behind closed doors. And that could change after today?
TAPPER: Yeah. And I think one of the keys here for our viewers at home to understand brad Schneider, the congressman, who has became -- became the 12th congressional Democrat to make this public call, he was on the show a few days ago and he refused to say that Biden would be the best person on the top of the ticket. He just said it was imperative that Donald Trump be defeated.
My interpretation is any elected Democrat, not saying yes, Biden's the best feels the way that Brad Schneider did and he inevitably shared his real feelings today.
RAJU: Yeah. No question about it. And that's why I think we can expect to see more. I've asked several Democrats, too, do you believe that Joe Biden is their best candidate in this race? They did this -- a lot of them are simply saying, no comment, and, Jake, that no comment says a lot.
TAPPER: It's quite a comment.
Manu Raju on Capitol Hill, thanks.
Just hours before Congressman Brad Schneider's announcement this afternoon that he isn't supporting President Biden on the ticket, Democratic Representative Hillary Scholten of Michigan became the tenth House Democrat to publicly call for Biden to step aside.
The way that this is moving though, you're not the latest on anymore. We booked you.
But tell me, I know this is -- I don't mean to be flipped about it because it's -- it's sad and I'm sure this was a difficult decision. Tell me why.
REP. HILLARY SCHOLTEN (D-MI): Yeah, incredibly difficult. You know, there is -- there is nothing to the glib or flip about here. No one wants to be in this situation.
And, you know, let me be crystal clear: the president has an incredible record. He has delivered so much for this country as a senator, vice president, and as president. You know, I haven't always agreed with the president on anything, but he's got a record that any president would be proud to run on or retire on.
And, you know -- but the issue is this is not about the past. It's about the future, and we need to have the strongest possible candidate that we can, working to prevent Donald Trump and lead us into the future.
TAPPER: Do you think that -- well, let me ask this: this all comes obviously after the debate two weeks ago.
SCHOLTEN: Yeah, sure.
TAPPER: And I wonder -- had you seen -- George Clooney said that the Joe Biden he saw at the fundraiser, June 15th, in L.A. was the same one we all saw on the debate. Had you seen that Joe Biden before or was the debate?
SCHOLTEN: No, it was the debate, and that's -- that's really where a lot of this starts, you know? I mean, I had said on this show previously when asked about Biden's age, you know, seeing is believing -- well, seeing is believing, and we all saw what we saw on the debate stage, and we cannot ask millions of Americans to unsee that, or ignore that, right?
And I think after, you know, people witnessed that for me, it was the first time. I had just been with the president of the congressional picnic at the White House with my kids just a couple of weeks before. And I saw the Joe Biden that I knew, right, working the rope line, you know, 100 percent humidity, 90 degree heat. He's out there for hours, you know, just talking to people.
And that was not what we saw on the debate stage. And I think what happened then is, you know, I think that the narrative got it a little bit wrong where people said there was panic.
I know I personally did not feel any panic, but it was a moment that made us all pay attention, ask more questions, raise concerns, say, hey, what is going on here?
TAPPER: Yeah.
SCHOLTEN: In that moment, you know, the Biden campaign had an opportunity to say, hey, you know, just a fluke, one bad night, you know, it's been two weeks.
And to turn the ship around and that has not happened. You know, instead, you know, we're continuing to hear more and more stories like this. We're continuing to see divisions within the party. And that's what caused me to act today.
We have a narrow and closing window where we can actually make a change and I have heard from so many constituents who have said, you know, Hillary speak up, say something we need you to do, something you are voice there, and, you know, despite repeated, you know, calls or concerns internally, it felt essential for me to speak out and say something publicly to speak up, do the right thing, and to speak on behalf of his constituents, those voters who can't do that. TAPPER: So I know there's no consensus on this, but in your world and
your view, what would happen next? Would Kamala Harris get it and then she picks a running mate? Would there be some sort of mini primary system and then everybody goes to the convention?
[16:15:05]
What -- what would you like?
SCHOLTEN: I would say the biggest point is that there are options, right, to honor the will of the voters and to make this a democratic process to find a replacement.
Let's be clear: This is if Joe Biden steps aside and in my statement today, I made clear and I stand by the fact this is the president's decision. And should he choose not to step aside, I will still vote for him, right, as an absolutely necessary alternative to Donald Trump. But if he were to choose to step aside, we do have alternatives at the convention where we can democratically secure a new nominee for the Democratic Party.
TAPPER: You're from Michigan. Would Gretchen Whitmer be at the top of the ticket?
SCHOLTEN: You know, I mean, it seems like the governor has made it very clear that she is supporting the president at this point.
TAPPER: If -- if President Biden were to bow out?
SCHOLTEN: I mean, I obviously can't speak for the governor. She's doing a good job.
TAPPER: No, no, but would like her -- would you want her?
SCHOLTEN: Well, I think that there are a number of fantastic candidates, including -- lets talk about our vice president, right?
TAPPER: Yeah.
SCHOLTEN: Who would be next in line, who has been on the ticket, who has been delivering so many of the incredible accomplishments of the Biden-Harris administration.
TAPPER: Theoretically, would a Harris running mate to be named later ticket do better in Michigan than Joe Biden?
SCHOLTEN: I mean, I think that is what the polling is beginning to indicate.
TAPPER: But you're seeing -- you're seeing internal polling that we're not seeing.
SCHOLTEN: Well, I think that we are seeing that increasingly, it is clear that Joe Biden is not the best choice for the top of the ticket, and I will -- I will leave it at that. And it has been impressed upon me by my constituents, by, you know, my
voters to say something in this moment before it's too late, while we can still make a change and we can.
You know, the people who say it's too late. The ship has passed. It's -- it's just fundamentally not true.
TAPPER: And do you represent a lot of your colleagues who have not come forward? Do a lot of them feel the same way -- I'm not asking for name, but a lot of them still feel the same way, but they're just not there yet to say it publicly?
SCHOLTEN: I feel so strongly that I will not speak for my colleagues --
TAPPER: OK.
SCHOLTEN: -- on this point. You know, they can clearly speak for themselves, but, you know, I think that we are divided in this party, right? I mean, we have seen people's coming out and saying that they think Biden still is the best choice for the top of the ticket.
TAPPER: Sure.
SCHOLTEN: But we know that --
TAPPER: Your colleague, Haley Stevens from Michigan, feels that way.
SCHOLTEN: Absolutely.
TAPPER: Yeah.
SCHOLTEN: And I respect -- I respect their decision, right?
But I cannot look away from my constituents and my voters who are asking me to speak up in this moment. You know, it is -- it is hard to do something like I am doing right now, but the people elected me to do the hard right thing especially when it's challenging, especially when there might be, you know, backlash from powerful sources.
But speaking the truth is -- is essential right now.
TAPPER: Last question, which is with Biden at the top of the ticket, how concerned are you about a red tsunami? About -- just because his polling numbers or cratering and I'm hearing from Democratic officials all over the country, internals are just horrible and battleground districts like yours, in states that should not be competitive becoming competitive. We hear anecdotes about New York.
How worried are you that this isn't just even about the White House, this is about, you know, a seismic change in who controls the House, the Senate, governor's offices, and state legislatures?
SCHOLTEN: Yeah. Well, you know, Jake, I have always said, I don't panic. I plan. And I have been planning since the debate when we saw concerning signs
that the president was, you know, maybe not in the capacity that we thought he was in. And over these last two weeks, we have seen an inability to address those concerns, and to unify the party, right? And that has severe implications up and down the ballot.
You cannot win the presidency without winning Michigan. You cannot win Michigan without winning West Michigan. That's why I felt it was important to speak up.
TAPPER: Congressman Scholten, thank you so much. I know it wasn't easy. Appreciate your being here.
Even before the news conference, we're likely going to see President Biden in the next few minutes at NATO, where he could give brief remarks. I'm also going to speak with John Kirby, close assistant and adviser to President Biden. Moments ago, the Biden campaign responding to reports that it asked a radio station to edit a taped interview with President Biden, one of these many interviews done to reassure the public.
We're back in a moment.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[16:23:14]
TAPPER: And we're back with our world lead.
In just moments, we're going to bring you to the NATO summit where President Biden is expected to speak. This is not the press conferences as these are other remarks. This as allies make a sweeping agreement to cap off a three-day event, secure Ukraine's future.
All this ahead of tonight's highly anticipated solo news conference for President Biden, the first solo news conference of the year.
And assistant to the president and national security communications adviser, retired Admiral John Kirby, joins us now.
Admiral Kirby, thanks for joining.
So, this afternoon, Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelenskyy said he hopes to discuss lifting, quote, all limitations for our Ukrainian soldiers. Right now, obviously, the Biden administration is only allowing Ukraine to use U.S. weapons to strike inside Russia where Russian forces are actively targeting Ukraine.
How open is President Biden to letting Ukraine hit anywhere it feels it needs to in Russia?
JOHN KIRBY, WHITE HOUSE NATIONAL SECURITY COMMUNICATIONS ADVISER: Well, we want to make sure that, obviously, Jake, they have the tools and capabilities they need to defend themselves and some of that does include the guidance on how to use some of these weapons and you're right. We just agreed. President allowed them to use for strikes just across the border, U.S. weapons.
There's no change beyond that right now. This is a conversation that we continue to have with Ukrainians. Certainly, we understand where President Zelenskyy is coming from. But we have to think very carefully with every decision we make with respect to not only what we're providing Ukraine, but how that stuff is being used, so that we can also make sure we pay proper attention to the risks of escalation here, this conflict.
TAPPER: Let's turn to another hotspot. National security adviser, Jake Sullivan, said earlier today that a framework seems to have been hammered out in the hostage and ceasefire deal between Israel and Hamas.
Prime Minister Netanyahu earlier today said not only that there's still work to be done, and that Hamas's demands contradict the plan.
[16:25:03]
But he seems to be toughening his demands at the same time that this framework has been agreed to. What's going on, how far are we to -- from a deal?
KIRBY: We believe we're close, as Jake said, and we're cautiously optimistic that we can actually get this done.
An essential framework has been hammered out between the two sides, that is not insignificant. I mean, that's in some ways farther than we have gotten before. But as Jake also noted, there's details in terms of implementation that have to be hammered out between the two sides, and that's why our team is still in the region talking to counterparts to see if we can get there.
We believe it's possible to close these gaps, Jake. We believe we're close but obviously more work has to be done.
You told my colleague Wolf Blitzer last evening that the focus this week is on the NATO alliance, and not on President Biden's fitness to serve. Questions being raised by Democrats on Capitol Hill.
"The Wall Street Journal" reported after the debate that, quote, Polish Prime Minister Donald Tusk told reporters that the Democrats have a problem regarding President Biden's fitness, and the former Slovenian prime minister said that he predicted months ago Biden would not be on the ballot in November.
It does seem as though the president's age and abilities, plus American leadership at this summit and other international summits, are not separate issues.
KIRBY: Well, I -- look, I can't speak for individual leaders here and there.
I can tell you two things. One, it just hasn't been a part of the conversation here. In fact, the conversations that the president has been having at the NATO Summit have really been all around American leadership on the world stage, how important his leadership and stewardship over the alliance has been. It's now two countries stronger. And, of course, what we can all do to stand up to Putin and support Ukraine.
Those have been the conversations that we've been having, not about the domestic political situation here in the United States.
But I would also point you, if we're going to talk about individual leaders. I mean, the new UK Prime Minister, Prime Minister Starmer, also said publicly today that he found the president to be very much in good form.
And so, I think -- again, maybe it depends hands on who you talk to, but again, it just hasn't been a focus of the conversations.
TAPPER: Admiral John Kirby, thanks so much. Appreciate it.
KIRBY: Yeah. You bet.
TAPPER: And this programming note, tomorrow here on THE LEAD, my interview with the brand new UK Prime Minister Keir Starmer. He's barely one week into the job. Again, that's tomorrow right here on THE LEAD, which starts at 4:00 Eastern Time in these United States.
This just coming in, Congressman Greg Stanton is now Democrat number three and -- 13 rather, sorry, in Congress to call on President Biden to drop out of the 2024 race, 13.
Ahead, conversations inside the Biden campaign, the three states they see as a path to victory in November, despite the uproar over questions about Biden's political future.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[16:31:32]
TAPPER: Breaking news, Representative Greg Stanton from Arizona is now calling on President Biden to drop out of the 2024 race for president. That makes 12 members of the House who are Democrats to do so, as well as one Democratic member of the Senate, lucky 13, as of right now. But the night is still young.
Let's bring in CNN political director David Chalian, Alencia Johnson who was a senior adviser for Biden's 2020 presidential campaign.
Again, I'm not trying to be glib about this, David, we booked Congresswoman Scholten, because she was the latest. But before she came on to the show, Congressman Schneider became the 12th, and she had barely left the set when Congressman Stanton became the 13th. It's just going to keep going on and on and on.
DAVID CHALIAN, CNN POLITICAL DIRECTOR: Which is why I think this notion that and while I think there will be a ton of eyes on this press conference today, that's clearly not the thing that Democrats on the Hill are waiting for to see if he does really well in it. That's -- even if he does, that's not going to quell the concern that they have.
I think, you know, our reporting indicates you're going to have more members coming out. The question is, is that what's going to tip Joe Biden's thinking just the aggregate number of House Democrats or Senate Democrats, or is this going to require intervention from, you know, senior leadership in the party, the likes of Barack Obama, Nancy Pelosi, Chuck Schumer, to get him, his family and his advisers, closest advisers, into a conversation where they're truly engaging in the introspective moment for this president about whether or not he is actually making it harder for the Democrats to keep the White House in their hands if he does maintain his candidacy?
TAPPER: I can't stop thinking about the story a friend of mine told me about when he had to take his car keys away from his dad and his dad who didn't forgive him, and his dad died holding the car keys. There is a pride and anger or resentment about what happens to us, all of us, if we're lucky enough to get old. And that is part of what's going on here it feels like.
ALENCIA JOHNSON, DEMOCRATIC STRATEGIST: Yeah, look, Democrats would rather be talking about Donald Trump, his 34 charges, the abortion, Project 2025, the fact that he has to name a vice president because he was letting his vice president be threatened by insurrectionist.
TAPPER: Right, his own vice president is not endorsing him.
JOHNSON: Exactly, but instead, we're talking about this infighting that has done very much public and the reality is, and we talked about this before we came on air, the concern about President Biden amongst some of our base young voters, some Black voters was actually before the debate, and this actually isn't helping us. We're losing time already talking to those voters about other things that they care about. And now, we're over here having had this conversation about whether or not he should drop out.
To your point about who can actually have that conversation with him, it's not going to be this public discourse with all of these people writing op-eds. It's probably not going to listen to an actor, George Clooney, all of these public shaming --
TAPPER: I just say something in defense of George Clooney, one of the biggest fundraisers in the history of the Democratic Party.
JOHNSON: It was, it was.
TAPPER: In general.
JOHNSON: Totally.
TAPPER: Yeah.
CHALIAN: It's not likely to be the thing that causes Joe Biden --
TAPPER: I'm just saying, yes, it's not --
JOHNSON: And that probably does. You're right and that probably does say something because he did make some calls around Israel and Palestine to the White House. It is going to take people that had been around Biden for decades, people that he trusts, those inner conversations. And it's also going to take a shift in the campaign leadership to have a very real conversation about what he should do.
[16:35:02]
And the last thing I will say, if he does decide to stay in, we can't as a party, continue to browbeat voters across the head and say, you just have to get a line without actually listening to their concerns and coming to the table with some concessions.
TAPPER: David, a new Biden campaign memo obtained by CNN shows that the campaign has clearly downplaying the possibility that somebody else could actually become the nominee, or that that person would do better than Joe Biden. They do acknowledge that polling has taken a hit, but they also say that they still see a path to 270. That path runs through the best path, they say through Michigan, Wisconsin, Pennsylvania.
I might observe, that's their only path.
CHALIAN: Yeah.
TAPPER: And like Arizona and Nevada, and Georgia were arguably gone before the debate.
CHALIAN: Yeah. And we have time to go, but they were already certainly leaning away --
TAPPER: Yeah, that's what I meant.
CHALIAN: -- from Joe Biden and quite frankly, as you know, Jake, if you sit down with Biden campaign officials prior to the debate? They would say they're path to 270 is through Michigan, Pennsylvania, and Wisconsin.
TAPPER: And through the debate.
CHALIAN: And the second congressional district in Nebraska. And they wanted this early debate because they wanted to wake up the public to this race and to this contrast, the public has been awakened to this contest I don't think in the way that the Biden campaign wanted.
But you are -- I should just note, since the debate. Michigan, Pennsylvania, and Wisconsin got harder, not easier. So that even though they see that as their only viable path that means they're viable path got less probable for them.
TAPPER: Just to -- just to -- they see it as their best path. I'm the one saying it's their only path.
CHALIAN: Yeah.
TAPPER: -- as of right now. Stay with me, both of you.
I want to talk about this brand new report about a Milwaukee radio station telling CNN that they were asked to edit an interview with President Biden by the Biden campaign. Again, this was one of the interviews done to quell concerns about Biden's ability to do his job.
Stay with us.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[16:40:48]
TAPPER: More breaking news in our 2024 lead. Hawaii Democratic Representative Ed Case is also now calling for President Biden to step down from running to reelection.
It has also come to light today that after President Biden called in for a radio interview, one of these interviews done to kind of quell concerns and show the president was fine and completely on his -- on point, after he did that call, the Biden campaign called that station asking them to edit out two of his answers.
Civic Media, Wisconsin Progressive Talk Radio Network acknowledged that staff took out the Biden campaign's suggested edits, deleting two answers from the president's July 3rd interview with host Earl Ingram. The first answer is Biden said, quote, I have more Blacks in my administration than any other president. All other presidents combined and in major positions -- cabinet positions, obviously, not an accurate thing to say.
The second when Biden was talking about Trump's past comments about the Central Park Five. And we should note, like this is a big -- journalism, no, no editing out an answer because the politician and his campaign didn't like it or he didn't -- he didn't, they didn't like how he came across. I don't know exactly the reason. We'll find out from the Biden campaign maybe someday.
Alencia, your reaction again, just to remind people, these were the interviews he did to clean up the mess.
JOHNSON: Look, it is not making things a lot easier for us right now as Democrats, I will say as a comms staffer, we will sometimes go after an interview and tried to clean up the quotes.
However, to get the goal across that President Biden knows what he's talking about that, you know, to temper down some of this conversation, this isn't helpful, but at the same in time, I we have to continue to get him out there because right now he is the nominee and we have to keep talking about the threat on the other side. There are a lot of accomplishments this administration has achieved for a lot of different constituencies that needs to be communicated. The harder part is as were trying to communicate those, this conversation about him continuing he needs to be the nominee is sucking up all the oxygen, and I think the campaign and the White House are trying to make sure that that is not the case. And this isn't helpful. TAPPER: Yeah, but that's -- they're not unrelated. All the things that could be communicated, the achievements of the Biden administration, and the fact we're having this conversation is because the president has such a tough time communicating them, David.
CHALIAN: There's no so doubt about it. And you noted this these were outings to try to clean up the debate performance, but they were also deliberately chosen outings for what the White House and the campaign deemed and perceived to be friendly interviews go to a base constituency. A lot of African-American listeners they supplied questions we learned that then they -- these interviewers worked from supplied questions. One of them lost her job over that practice, we learned.
And now, we're learning that they're editing out answers. So what exactly would the Biden folks say that they are trying to prove by doing these interviews, that he can handle un -- it wasn't unscripted and it was like retrofitted what they wanted him to say. So it proves none of what they were actually trying to prove to get him in a more unscripted format.
TAPPER: And, also, I saw this on Twitter or X earlier. This infighting is getting -- is getting rougher and rougher Congressman Bennie Thompson. I believe he's the top Democrat on the Homeland Security Committee referred to a comment -- somebody was talking about keep the faith -- and Congressman Thompson, somebody -- a Biden supporter, stick with Biden. And Congressman Thompson wrote, I enjoyed listening to you. I hope my backstabbing colleagues are listening.
My hope my backstabbing colleagues are listening. And by that he's referring to -- I -- presumably Democrats who are expressing concern about President Biden being the person, best person to take it to Trump.
JOHNSON: Listen, I can only speculate what he was trying to say and he probably --
TAPPER: He said it pretty clearly.
JOHNSON: Right. But I haven't talked to him, right. He probably as frustrated like a lot of Democrats are that this -- our dirty laundry is being aired out like this, right? We're used to seeing the chaos on the other side of the aisle.
There's something to be said about Black voters in this moment and that when the debate happen, I'm on the phone with a lot of other black political strategist like myself, we're all talking about this. It isn't necessarily that the Black support is going to go to the other side. It's a matter of us having to do more work to get people to come off the couch.
[16:45:03]
And so, he is doubling down on we've got to move on from this fight. If he's the nominee, we're riding with Biden, that's what he would say or we've got to continue to move on to the messaging that's going to help us win in November.
CHALIAN: And what I found so interesting in "The Washington Post"/ABC News/Ipsos poll today was the racial and demographic lines, racial and age lines on the question of whether Biden should remain the nominee, African American Democrats, more likely to say he should remain the nominee, than Hispanic Democrats or white Democrats? Younger Democrats clearly ready for him to not be the nominee, but older Democrats split about evenly.
So, older Democrats, African American Democrats, they are more inclined to let Biden stay on as the nominee.
TAPPER: And we should note also when you talk about the -- how African-Americans were less likely to say get rid of them, it's still 47 keep him, 49 percent get rid of them. I mean, it's still within the margin, it's still about 50/50 is my point.
CHALIAN: Right, yeah, yeah.
TAPPER: All right. David and Alencia, thanks so much, appreciate it.
Donald Trump said again today he knows nothing about the controversial Project 2025. Nothing. I see nothing. But more evidence sure does speak to the contrary. We're getting into that, next.
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TAPPER: Also in our 2024 lead, Donald Trump is again trying to deny any relationship or knowledge of what is called Project 2025.
[16:50:00]
That's the controversial policy guide, almost a thousand pages long put together by his allies and conservative groups, including the Heritage Foundation. Last night on Truth Social, Mr. Trump posted, quote, I know nothing about Project 2025. I've not seen it. I have no idea who's in charge of it. And unlike our very well-received Republican platform, had nothing to do with it, unquote, which does not really match with Trump's previous praise of the works of the Heritage Foundation in this space.
Take a listen to this part of Trump's keynote address in 2022.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DONALD TRUMP, FORMER U.S. PRESIDENT & 2024 PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: This is a great group and they're going to lay the groundwork in detail plans for exactly what our movement will do and what you're movement will do when the American people give us a colossal mandate to save American.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
TAPPER: Nor does this claim on Truth Social last night match new CNN reporting today from Steve Contorno, which finds, quote, at least 140 people who worked in the Trump administration had a hand in Project 2025.
Here now to talk about this, CNN's Alyssa Farah Griffin and former Republican Congressman Adam Kinzinger.
Thanks to both you for being here.
So, Congressman Kinzinger, you recently wrote, quote, project 2025 would consolidate power in the presidency, removing the checks and balances that allow Congress to slow down or even cancel controversial projects. Do you buy what President Trump is saying about not knowing anything about it?
ADAM KINZINGER, CNN SENIOR POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: No. No, of course, he knows it. Look, he's -- he's -- Heritage Foundation plays a very important role in his campaign. And let's also quick aside, keep in mind the Heritage Foundation recently flew the American flag upside- down, which somehow is cool now to do, even though that used to be a very anti-American thing.
So, he knows. His people around him know. They're deeply involved in this. And this is all about remaking the federal government, not just to be like a conservative federal government.
But you think about what this does to competency. So if you want to get a license to do whatever through the federal government, those people that do those licenses or put out your Social Security check, or do those things that we require every day, they're talking about replacing them with folks that have no idea what they're doing because the other people that have been working there have not sworn allegiance to Donald Trump. And what we know about Donald Trump is the only wants people around him that swear an allegiance to him. And that's it.
TAPPER: Alyssa, Trump, of course, continues to claim he hasn't seen Project 2025. He doesn't know anything about it. He's called it, quote, ridiculous and abysmal Project 2025.
You worked for President Trump in the White House. Why do you think Trump doesn't want it to be linked to this?
ALYSSA FARAH GRIFFIN, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: Well, there's some very controversial parts of it. One is eradicating Social Security, which he knows is obviously a political loser.
But listen, people deeply connected to Donald Trump were part of this. He obviously praised it. He's going to be the first to tell you that Agenda 47 is actually his plan and platform.
But the key part of Project 2025 that Adam's hitting on, I think its the most important part for Americans to understand is this reshaping of the federal government. And I saw the actual executive order at the end of the last administration, ready to go, that would remake every civil servant into a political appointee and a loyalist to Trump.
And it goes beyond Social Security and some of these technical things. It's the national security apparatus. It's our emergency management. It's FEMA. It's responding to natural disasters, pandemics. Those would all be are subject matters, that Dr. Faucis of the world would be replaced with whatever loyalist he puts into those positions.
So it's a very, very scary thing that's actionable and ready to go by Donald Trump.
TAPPER: "The New York Times" editorial board today published but pretty scathing piece calling President Trump unfit to lead. They write, quote, we urge voters to see the dangers of a second Trump term clearly and to reject it. The stakes insignificance of the presidency demand a person who has essential qualities and values to earn our trust and on each one, Donald Trump fails.
Alyssa, this comes obviously after "The New York Times" editorial board calls hold on, president Biden to step down and not run for reelection.
What's your reaction?
GRIFFIN: They're right on every word of it, but I think the part of this that's so devastating to folks like Congressman Kinzinger and myself who's been raising alarm bells about Donald Trump for years now, is the opportunity to litigate the case of how unfit Donald Trump is, what a historically unfit character he is for office, was that at CNN debate, and President Biden proved himself unable to litigate that case.
And I'm squarely in the camp of the Democrats need to come up with another option, or they're undermining their strongest message, which is a true message this cycle -- democracy is on the line, so they need to put up a fighter who is better equipped to litigate this case against Donald Trump for the American people.
TAPPER: So let me, I want to ask both of you this as well. Start with you, Congressman. Let's assume President Biden sticks with what he's doing now and refuses -- refuses to step down. You don't want Donald Trump to be elected president.
What are you going to do in November? You're a Republican who feels abandoned by the Trump part of your party.
KINZINGER: Oh, that's easy. I'll vote for Joe Biden. I mean, the difference here is yes. I mean, Joe Biden needs to execute a better case if he's going to stay in. He missed a lot of opportunities in the debate.
[16:55:01]
But he's a decent man. Nobody questions that. He cares about the future of this country. Nobody questions that.
Donald Trump cares about one person. He cares about Donald Trump and he'll burn the country down to get there. It's very clear. We saw January 6th. Let's not forget, he refused to give up power. He watched for three hours until law enforcement turned the tide. He didn't say a word and then he only begrudgingly said a word on behalf of law enforcement or send his people home.
It is a no-brainer to me. I'd actually vote for Mayor McCheese if he was running against Donald Trump.
So in my mind, there is nobody less qualified to serve in the oval office than Donald Trump.
TAPPER: Mayor McCheese not born in the United States, as you know. So, ineligible.
Alyssa, just a quick thought to you. Who would you vote for if President Biden stays in the race?
GRIFFIN: This gets a lot more complicated since the debate. I just have to be honest, I was prepared to quietly vote for Biden because the stakes are so high, but having worked in the Department of Defense, the vice president isn't in the chain of command, senior staff are not in the chain of command.
I'm genuinely worried about Joe Biden's fitness and ability to do the main structures of the presidency if he were to continue for another four years. He needs to prove to the public that he's going to be able to take that 3:00 a.m. phone call, that he's going to be able to work all hours if he needs.
Answer might be different if I was in Wayne County, Michigan, I'm in New York voter, but I am deeply, deeply concerned about both of the options right now.
TAPPER: Alright, thanks to both of you. Appreciate it.
The big moment coming up soon, President Biden's solo news conference. Just coming in, some brand new insight from a longtime adviser to President Biden as even more Democrats call on him to drop out of the 2024 race, President Biden. The count up now to 14 on Capitol Hill.
We're back in a moment.
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