Return to Transcripts main page

The Lead with Jake Tapper

First Look At CNN's Interview With Harris & Walz; Trump's Attacks On Harris Take A Hostile Turn. U.S. Officials On Edge Ahead Of Election As New Evidence Surfaces About Iran's "Sophisticated" Hacking Operations; Army Rebukes Trump Campaign For Arlington National Cemetery Incident; Harris On Policy Position Changes: "My Values Have Not Changed". Aired 4-5p ET

Aired August 29, 2024 - 16:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[16:00:01]

BORIS SANCHEZ, CNN HOST: And honestly, who can blame them? The bobblehead giveaway featured Ohtani holding his trusty dog Decoy.

BRIANNA KEILAR, CNN HOST: But that wasn't the only treat for fans. Decoy got to throw out the ceremonial first pitch. I mean, kind of here, sort of carried it there.

It was a rough night for the visiting Orioles, by the way, who fell 6- 4 to the Dodgers. Afterwards, Ohtani said, it took him about three weeks to train Decoy to do that first pitch thing. You think your dog Harley could do that?

SANCHEZ: absolutely not, yes. She's very stubborn. She's not --

KEILAR: Three weeks, I believe in her.

SANCHEZ: Yeah,

THE LEAD WITH JAKE TAPPER starts right now.

ANNOUNCER: This is CNN breaking news.

PHIL MATTINGLY, CNN HOST: Welcome to THE LEAD. I'm Phil Mattingly, in for Jake Tapper.

And we start this hour with the massive breaking news. Our very first look at CNN's exclusive interview with Democratic presidential candidate Kamala Harris. Harris and her running mate Governor Tim Walz sat down with CNN's Dana Bash. The interview wrapped up just moments ago in Georgia, where Harris and Walz are trying to win over voters in what will be one of the most important swing states in this election.

Now, this is the pair's first interview as the Democrat ticket and it's Harris's first interview since the presidential race was upended less than six weeks ago.

I want to straight to CNN's Dana Bash.

Dana, a pivotal time, a pivotal moment in this campaign. The first ballots get mailed out next week. Tell us about the conversation.

DANA BASH, CNN CHIEF POLITICAL CORRESPONDENT: Uh-huh. Hi, Phil.

Well, it was wide-ranging. We talked about several issues that are very important to voters, including and especially, of course, the economy, affordability.

One of the key issues for Kamala Harris is that because she has not run on her own since she ran briefly during the 2020 cycle, is what are her policy positions now versus what they were before?

And I asked her about a few very specific policies, for example, on immigration and on the issue of energy, the green new deal, fracking, and then more broadly talked about her changes and how that could or should affect voters.

Listen to that exchange.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

BASH: Generally speaking, how should voters look at some of the changes that you've made -- that you've explained some of here in your policy? Is it because you have more experience now and you've learned more about the information? Is it because you were running for president in a Democratic primary? And should they feel comfortable and confident that what you're saying now is going to be your policy moving forward?

KAMALA HARRIS, VICE PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES & 2024 PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: Dana, I think the most important and most significant aspect of my policy perspective and decisions is my values have not changed.

You've mentioned the green new deal. I have always believed, and I've worked on it, that the climate crisis is real, that it is an urgent matter to which we should apply metrics that include holding ourselves to deadlines around time.

We did that with the Inflation Reduction Act. We have set goals for the United States of America, and by extension, the globe around when we should meet certain standards for reduction of greenhouse gas emissions, as an example. That value has not changed.

My value around what we need to do to secure our border. That value has not changed. I spent two terms as the attorney general of California, prosecuting transnational criminal organizations, violations of American laws regarding the passage -- illegal passage of guns, drugs and humans beings across our border. My values have not changed.

(END VIDEO CLP)

BASH: So, Phil, that is her sort of broad explanation of some changes in policy and what she would do as president now that she is running at the top of the ticket in 2024. But as I said, we did talk about some of the specifics which we'll see tonight. MATTINGLY: Dana, you mentioned wide ranging I don't want you to give

it all away. Obviously, it airs at 9:00 p.m. tonight. But what else kind of top line people that did you have an opportunity to speak to them?

BASH: Well, we talked about that was just domestic policy. We talked about foreign policy. But, you know, another, because she has not sat down for an interview yet in this very quick, very unprecedented race that she is running, how did that happen at the fact that we were even having this conversation wouldn't have been a thing little more than a month ago because she was running for reelection as vice president.

And I asked her about the phone call that she got from President Biden when he announced on that Sunday, July 21st, that he was going to step aside and not run for reelection. And she told me that it was maybe TMI but that she wanted to tell me the story of how that happened. So you have to wait, Phil, for that TMI, that story.

[19:05:01]

MATTINGLY: Dana, just from an observational perspective, you've covered Governor Walz. You I think you covered him in the House. You covered Senator Harris, Vice President Harris?

As you noted, this has been a whirlwind and they are in the midst of a crazy spread, right now. What was your impression of them when they sat down as they went through this interview?

BASH: Well, they're just t getting to know each other as all candidate and running mate usually are, especially since that they are on, you know, what -- the first week after their convention when they were formerly nominated. I -- formally accepted the nomination rather, I actually spent yesterday with them as well. They're on a bus tour here in Georgia and they just had a couple of quick stops, one to a high school and other to a small business it's a barbecue place.

And I didn't get to observe their interaction a little bit. You know, it is obviously is different from just a senator or a House member. But it is the getting to know you stage, but they do it seemed to have a comfort level with one another, and the big question is going to be how they translate their connection to the voters.

And most importantly, the policies that they say they want to achieve. And to enact for voters especially on the question of affordability, affordability, crisis in America right now.

MATTINGLY: Speaking of whirlwind and sprints, I believe that's been your week as well. Dana Bash, we appreciate you unveiling the first sound of this interview, which everybody will be able to see tonight at 9:00 p.m. Dana Bash live in Georgia, Vice President Harris and Governor Walz airs tonight at 9:00 Eastern, only on CNN.

We have a ton to talk about right now. I want to bring in our panel -- panel of political experts. Now we have only heard one piece of this interview, but, but, Mike, Republicans have been very clearly questioning not just 40 days without a sit-down interview or four days without unscripted interactions, but also those policy changes that Dana was asking about, the answer that you heard there, what do you make of it?

MIKE DUBKE, FORMER TRUMP WHITE HOUSE COMMUNICATIONS DIRECTOR: Well, I heard a lot of -- her values have not changed. I didn't hear many specifics and I know that this was a tease and were going to get to the interview at 9:00 tonight, and hopefully, at 9:00 tonight, when she does get into some specifics, she can talk about now why she changed her views on fracking, why she changed her views on Medicaid for all.

You know, she can explain why her voting record in the Senate was still left of Bernie Sanders. You know, these are the things -- she's presenting herself as centrist right now. But she governed in the Senate as to the far left. And, you know, her positions in 2019 when she was running for president were to the left. So it'll be interesting to watch this.

MATTINGLY: Michael Eric Dyson, the values frame of this it's intentional. You can tell that's exactly how they wanted to shift, where they have been called out on a very regular basis over the course these last 40 days on the policies. She doesn't work.

MICHAEL ERIC DYSON, CO-AUTHOR, "UNEQUAL: A STORY OF AMERICA": I think so. First of all, as Mike said, we'll find out later her ability to talk about cutting taxes or boosting housing construction, or talking about a federal ban on price gouging at the grocery store. I'm looking forward to that one for sure, but the values thing is real because we got a president who was a malignant narcissist, who was incurable, imbecilic and continues to hurl with lethal intensity epithets against this woman that are unconscionable.

So, for us to sit here and pretend that this guy is not a bitter bigot who continues to use the airwaves to spread some of the worst stuff we've heard about any person in any party is ridiculous. So values matter.

She is a person I think it was bring it to have Walz there because the point is not I'm too weak and therefore I can't do it by myself. We are a team, that the guy I'm running against can't have his vice president or former vice president on any platform because he was involved in an insurrection that really threatened his life.

So those values I think are extremely important.

MATTINGLY: Navin, the Republican criticism, and I think those of us who want more access, want more opportunity to question candidates as well, questioning the 40 days it took, I mean, there's only 68 days until the election, 68? Yeah, 68. It's all blended together. It's definitely a sprint.

Did they wait too long? Is this time right? You know, ballots are going out in a week or so?

NAVIN NAYAK, PRESIDENT, CENTER FOR AMERICAN PROGRESS ACTION FUND: No, I actually listen. I think her job is to talk to the American people and I think what's been really encouraging and you saw this, I think in Ashkelon poll this week, when you ask people, are they hearing about the candidate? And for Kamala Harris, not only are they hearing about her, they're also hearing positive news about her.

And so she's getting her message out there. She's doing a lot of rallies, a lot of events. She's on social media and a really effective way. I think she's got to make sure the American people are hearing from her.

And yes, she's got to do sit down interviews. That is another path. I don't think they're ever going to skirt this. He became a bigger deal because there was a convention of plan in 30 days and other activities, but I was really heartened by that and we'll obviously watch the whole thing tonight.

[16:10:01]

But I think it's powerful.

MATTINGLY: You know, Navin makes a great point. They've been getting their message out. They've been getting a ton of earned media. They've been -- I don't understand TikTok.

I like to act like I do, but they've certainly done well, there, when you look at the numbers, what's fascinating to me is this race has now competitive. It is not by any means. Harris and Walz where they have the advantage, a clear path.

You looked at the Fox News Sun Belt state poll? Yes. Harris is doing much better than Joe Biden. Everything is within the margin of error. And that maybe opens up another path, but this is a tossup race on some level.

KRISTEN SOLTIS ANDERSON, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: Harris has given Democrats a fighting chance that they did not have with Joe Biden at the top of the ticket, but by no means is this race anything but an extremely close razor thin race.

And I think this interview is important because for many voters who may be loath to the idea of a Trump-Biden rematch, Harris is an opportunity to turn the page, but only if she seizes it. And by saying something like, my values have not changed, on the one hand, sure, you want a politician who is set in their values and knows what they believe. On the other hand, I think the winner of this race is going to be whoever is viewed as best able to be change.

And if her values have not changed, that may be good, but it may also mean that the folks down at Mar-a-Lago right now are cutting an ad of all of the things she said in the past, followed by that clip of her talking to Dana right there saying my values have not changed, watch that something like that is going to be up on the air before this interview airs tonight, I can almost guarantee.

MATTINGLY: So you're basically saying there is no possibility for a right answer.

(LAUGHTER)

ANDERSON: I think, look, again, this is just a shortcut interview, but if she gives more substance and says, here is why I changed my position on fracking. Maybe that'll sell. But if its what my position has always been the same, what are you talking about? I don't know if that's going to sell.

NAYAK: I think that the distinct difference there is values and policies, and I think what she's trying to say, which I think is really important, the core of this attack is authenticity, the core of this attack is do you really believe -- you have any core and who you are? And I think she's saying, yeah, I have believed in the climate crisis, I believe in a strong border, how we tackle that my change.

I mean, the world has changed in the last four years she you ran for president. We had a pandemic. We've had huge migration issues. We actually passed a huge investment in clean energy.

And so, I think as long as she's communicating authenticity and strength, which you know, that clip suggested. I think people aren't actually worried about the specific policy changes.

DUBKE: Oh, I totally disagree. People are worried about the policy changes. I think that -- I mean, we've had presidential well elections that have changed on the flip-flop. I mean, I can think of John Kerry and some other, some other places benefit of the doubt. We saw clip. We don't -- we don't know the rest of the interview. This is a great tease for this.

But you look back at what happened last week at the DNC -- I mean, it was a group of individuals that had a near death experience collectively and they were celebrating the fact that they weren't going to die with, you know, following Joe Biden to November 5th.

DYSON: Well, that was there and I was breathing in that oxygen.

DUBKE: Exactly. Exactly. And now that we have a race that is neck and neck, I expect it to stay that way all the way to the end and when we get to the differentiator, I think it's going to be policy.

DYSON: Can it really be policy with a guy like president, ex- President Bush? I mean, Bush -- Trump who flips from day-to-day. Flip- flop is not sufficient to talk about what he does. He's a radical situationist. When he's here, he says this, when he's over here, he does this.

And God bless him, he's a brilliant communicator, but the values question is central. And I think what Kamala Harris is doing is reiterating to America, you can trust me. I believe in what I say. Yes, I've made an evolution. I've had a change of heart. I'll tell you why.

But its' only because of the policy, not the perspective, not that the commitment to everyday ordinary citizens.

MATTINGLY: All right, guys. We got a lot more to get to including the fact that apparently, Kristen Soltis Anderson is Nostradamus because the Trump campaign is responding in real time and it sounds a lot like what you were saying. They would probably be clipping.

Stick around. We'll explain --

(CROSSTALK)

MATTINGLY: We're going to explain all of this and get into a lot more.

Vice President Harris and Donald Trump set to face off for the very first time in less than two weeks until they meet in person. Their campaigns -- well, they're battling it out with some serious trolling.

Plus, new evidence just in to CNN showing Iran's sophisticated attempts to hack those aligned with the most powerful people in the U.S. government. One of those men joins me, live, next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[16:18:14]

MATTINGLY: And we're back with our 2024 lead. The Trump campaign already responding to the first clip of the Harris and Walz CNN interview that quite literally just aired about 10 minutes ago. The campaign writing on X, quote, my values have not changed. Kamala Harris confirms she's still her radical left self who supports decriminalizing illegal immigration, the job-killing green new deal, eliminating private health insurance, banning fracking and so much more.

So that's kind of a combination of what you predicted and what you laid out on some level. I think look, as you've noted, we'll have to wait and see what the actual specific questions or which I know Dana asked on these specific issues. That response was almost guaranteed no matter what.

Where does this go from here in terms of the Trump campaign, as they try and kind of get back on track?

DUBKE: If they can keep on that track of talking about Biden-Harris, Biden-Harris, Biden-Harris, the fact that she was always the last person in the room, which is something that the Biden-Harris administration talked about a lot and put on make her when we talked about change, she's not the candidate of change. She's the candidate of the same high inflation, an immigration policy that makes no sense, and international crises across the world. That's a successful day for the Trump campaign, if they can stay on that message.

DYSON: Yeah. Well, look, I don't think --

MATTINGLY: We'll get on that in a minute.

DUBKE: If they can stay on that message.

DYSON: Yeah, good luck with that. But the thing is, is that flip- flopping, let's be honest on both sides, you know, you can call it evolution. You can call it change your mind. You can say God gave me that revelation this morning and in prayer.

The point is that people do change or they adjust their messages given the context within which they fine themselves. So as much as they get pressed, then they've got to ask Mr. Trump, let me see. So, you were proud of Dobbs and you took exclusive responsibility for it, but now you're getting a little choicey.

So what happens in all of these instances is that people do evolve.

[16:20:03]

If she's able to adhere to a principle that says, I am for working people in everyday people and that the fat cat and billionaires that Donald Trump seems to privilege, I think she's got a fighting chance.

MATTINGLY: I mean, to that point -- I mean, the interesting thing is an immigration, they point to the Senate immigration deal that Trump helped killed. The more hard line than I think any, any Democrat would have ever agreed to two years ago, that is unequivocally the case.

On health care, for Obamacare and expanding the subsidies for that, you know, on each of the issue can point to something that has changed from her positions that Mike laid out, and that the Trump campaign laid out.

My question remains, do people pay attention to that? Is that enough? Or are they thinking about because the Trump campaign is going to message this every day?

NAYAK: Listen, I think there -- even in this conversation, it's like two different arguments. Is she in authentic? Is she a flip-flopper, or is she so far left?

They can't figure out which one it is. And if it's going to be so far left, I think it's going to be a really hard argument for them to make. She was a prosecutor and she has a strong record as a -- she was criticized by the left when she was a prosecutor and she leans into that. She happens to be running against a felon. So I think that's going to be a very strong argument.

And if they want to do the inauthentic, I think she's just continuing to show us -- she's really strong. She's very composed. She's showing what she believed.

I think they're struggling, not to mention, set aside Donald Trump can't figure out what he wants to see on any given day and is criticizing her intelligence and her race and whatever, I don't know that they have figured out what they want to say about her.

DYSON: Well, the legacies of the far left are laughing by saying, you're calling Kamala Harris far-left progressive. We can take that, but she's not far left. She could be to the left of a particular figure in any given situation. I mean, just because she was to the right of most citizens in San Francisco, but to the left of most senators in the United States Senate, and during her campaign, those are not mutually exclusive. They can be the same thing.

MATTINGLY: Can I ask you, where is her vulnerability? When you -- we've always talked about who's going to define her first, who's going to be able to kind of lock something in with voters. When you look at the numbers, where do you see the vulnerabilities on these specific issues?

ANDERSON: I think the vulnerability on the economy and immigration is massive. I think immigration is one of the biggest ones. I think that's why you saw that very protracted fight over what she the, quote/unquote, border czar or not, that unfolded within the first week of her being the Democratic presumptive nominee.

But I do think that oddly enough, it is possible to prosecute both the case that she's too far to the left and she is inauthentic. And what I think back to is in 2012, I think back to the arguments used against Mitt Romney. You may recall one of his senior staffers gotten some hot water for suggesting that after the general -- after the primary election, they would be like an etch a sketch, that you would turn upside down and shake and you'd rest everything.

And Harris right now is trying to do the etch-a-sketch of her own. She's just -- is coming out and saying, oh, no, no, this isn't an etch a sketch, this isn't a change. What are you talking about?

But there are clips of what she said in 2020 and 2019, there were clips of what she's going to say now. If they are different, my hope is that in this interview with Dana Bash, she has some kind of good explanation for why because otherwise voters are going to go, wait a minute. What's really going on?

DYSON: Well, what she doesn't have -- the fact that Donald Trump, of course, contributed to her campaign, and that he used to be a Democrat. So talking about changing and evolving, it's fair game on both sides, but ultimately, it has little impact of, you know, beyond the fact that people stake their claim, talk about what their values are, how they see America in that I think has a significant impact upon voters and who they think they can trust.

MATTINGLY: Everybody, stick around. We got a lot more to get to. Etch a sketch, simpler times. The etch a sketch, Seamus, the dog on the roof.

ANDERSON: Oh, man.

MATTINGLY: All right. Everybody, stick around.

Donald Trump --

DYSON: People don't know what --

MATTINGLY: -- going pretty low. It's very low, and online cline attacks against Vice President Harris. This is the trolling wars between the two campaigns have been escalating for several weeks. One of Trumps former top advisors joins me on that, next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[16:28:14]

MATTINGLY: In our 2024 lead, as the Harris and Trump campaigns make their all-out sprint toward November 5th, they're deploying some tried and true campaign methods. There's the bus tours. Of course, have to have the stump speeches popping in to local businesses, donut shops, maybe somewhat awkwardly, and working the rope line. Plus, mixing in more 21st century tactics like floor flooding, social media at trolling each other online.

CNN's Tom Foreman shows us how the tone at times has taken a more hostile frame.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

DONALD TRUMP, FORMER U.S. PRESIDENT & 2024 PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: She is a radical left lunatic.

TOM FOREMAN, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Amid biting words crackling with contempt, bitter online posts, smacking of racism and video ready for sharing.

NARRATOR: And you know who's waiting behind her, right?

FOREMAN: -- former President Donald Trump and his allies are ripping into Vice President Kamala Harris.

SEN. J.D. VANCE (R-OH), VICE PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: She can -- she can go to hell.

FOREMAN: The latest, Trump himself re posting about how top Democrats should be jailed and a blatantly sexist and vulgar attack on Harris and former Democratic nominee Hillary Clinton in particular.

Team Trump is acting like Democrats started what is becoming an unbridled online war?

JASON MILLER, TRUMP CAMPAIGN SENIOR ADVISER: The attacks that had been levied by Kamala Harris's, both the campaign, by Harris allies against President Trump, quite frankly, in the case of many left-of- center people, have been quite horrific.

HARRIS: We choose freedom.

(MUSIC)

FOREMAN: To be sure, despite the upbeat tone around the Harris campaign, she and her supporters have been needling Trump online for weeks, with images of pro-Harris messages projected on a Trump high high-rise, a post on Trump's own Truth Social about how the Democratic convention drew larger audiences than the Republicans, even pairing him with chicken noises when he balked at debate terms.

(CHICKEN CACKLING)

TRUMP: They said, oh, Trump's, you know, not doing the debate. That's the same thing they'll say now.

AD NARRATOR: Donald Trump's back and he's out for control.

TRUMP: I would have every right to go after them.

FOREMAN: Throw in the tough commercials team Harris is rolling out and some political analysts say it is flipping Trump's script. He was the king of the meme against Joe Biden. Now, he's getting almost as good as he gives and clearly not happy about it.

REPORTER: Why insult her intelligence?

TRUMP: Well, I have to do that. Well, I don't think -- she's a very bright person.

STEPHEN COLLINSON, CNN SENIOR POLITICS REPORTER: I think there is a great deal of frustration in the Trump campaign that they have not managed to quell Harris's momentum. That I think is motivating some of this. But on a broader sense, this is who Donald Trump is. This is how he's always practiced politics.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

FOREMAN (on camera): Make no mistake. We're not talking about both- siderism here. The truth is, the Harris campaign says things which Trump supporters find troublesome, like he's a convicted criminal. They don't like hearing that.

But even Trump's supporters will admit that he routinely says things that are out there, that are offensive, that are troubling them, but attack people on a lot of things about how they look and how they move and things that are incredibly personal, things that again, are simply offensive, but with Trump now in a fight for his political life, I think we can expect more of them -- Phil.

PHIL MATTINGLY, CNN HOST: Certainly seems that way. Tom Foreman, thank you, as always, my friend.

Joining us now, former Trump administration national security adviser, John Bolton.

Mr. Ambassador, we'll get to Trump in the campaign and all that in a moment.

But first, I want to ask you, CNN is learning about some pretty sophisticated hacking attempts by Iran. One of them involved phishing scheme targeting a confidant of yours. This was just months before the Justice Department charged a member of the IRGC, IRGC with trying to kill you in retaliation for Qasem Soleimani's assassination in 2020.

U.S. officials, obviously, very worried about how Iran might try and interfere in the upcoming election.

What's your reaction to this new information as this has continued to evolve?

JOHN BOLTON, FORMER U.S. AMBASSADOR TO THE U.N.: Well, look, I think Iran is very active in a variety of ways trying to influence American public opinion, trying to take out some of its citizens, including former government officials, and is interfering in ways that that are not widely known in the general public.

I think this is important to understand because its not just the threat of Iran, which is very, very serious. But so is Chinas so is Russia probably so as North Korea it's a very inviting target. We're an open society, which is exactly what we should be, but our enemies are trying to take advantage of us.

And, frankly, this is one reason why I wish we had to better candidates for president this year to talk about national security.

MATTINGLY: You know, one of those candidates obviously you used to work for. We just saw Tom Foreman's report about some of the things that Trump was re-posting offensive lewd suggestions on his Truth Social account. One of the questions I've always had is behind the scenes and kind of the most important moments inside a White House when you would see like this -- stuff like this, what would you say to him?

BOLTON: Well, after a while it doesn't -- it doesn't -- it's not productive to say anything to him because he's not going to change.

It's one reason why I don't think he's fit to be president. He doesn't have a philosophy. He doesn't do policy is most of the Washington world understands that. It's hard to keep him on the same line of thought for an extended period of time.

And I just think it makes his decisions a kind of random walk.

MATTINGLY: He presents himself as if he were there, none of the things that have happened in terms of world crises would have actually happened in the sense of Russia would not have invaded. We would not have seen the Hamas, October 7th attacks.

Is there truth to that? He clearly believes it. His supporters clearly believe it.

BOLTON: Well, some do, but it's the kind of statement it's obviously neither provable nor disprovable since it didn't happen.

I think he has a very bad idea of what foreign leaders, particularly our adversaries, think of him. He thinks he has a great personal relationship with Vladimir Putin, with Xi Jinping. And he thinks that his personal relationship with other heads of state defines whether the U.S. and that country actually have good relations, which is far from the truth.

I've met with, seen, talked to these foreign leaders. My take is they think that Trump is an easy mark and indeed they do want to see him in the White House because they think they can take advantage of him.

MATTINGLY: Before I let you go, I do want to ask about what we've seen kind of coming out of the Arlington Cemetery visit that we saw from the former president. And I want to be very clear about the president was invited at the request of family members from some of those who were killed, the 13 that were killed in the Abbey Gate explosion in the very chaotic withdrawal from Afghanistan.

[16:35:01]

He has been close to these families. Many of them spoke at the convention, not in a political way. However, the fact that the Amy ended up putting out a public statement today which said, quote, were the Trump team was made aware of federal laws, unquote, abruptly pushed an employee.

They added quote, this incident was unfortunate. The ANC employee and her professionalism have been unfairly attacked. This doesn't happen very often. I was actually quite surprised when I saw that the Army put it out earlier.

What's your take about what's happened this week?

BOLTON: Well, I think it is unusual for the Army as such to say something I wish it had been the chief of staff for the Army personally to say it, to show it was the uniform military that at this view.

And to be clear, what Trump may have done at Arlington with the families, whatever he said to them, pictures that were taken, that's -- that's not -- that's not anything that's wrong. That what was wrong was what he did after they left the cemetery, by taking the films and so on and turning them into political advertisement that is what's forbidden and that's what he did. And I think that's why people are legitimately upset.

MATTINGLY: Trump's campaign manager, her co-campaign manager, Chris LaCivita, he retweeted a video of Trump on Monday at the Tomb of the Unknown Soldier at Arlington Cemetery, which to be clear, he could take that video. There was nothing wrong with him taking that video. The press was there taking video as well.

As he posted it or retweeted, he said, I hope to trigger -- hoping to trigger the hacks at secretary of army, secretary of Army.

Now, to be clear, Chris is a marine veteran. He's also a Purple Heart recipient. I have tremendous respect for his service, but they're aggressively attacking on this issue and I guess I don't really understand why.

BOLTON: Well, obviously they think it will help them, but it simply proves the point, they're using the whole thing for political purposes. That's expressly what Congress was trying to prevent and the regulations that make it clear that that's not what Arlington national cemetery is for.

I can't predict what the political outcome will be, but it's -- I just think it's shameful behavior.

MATTINGLY: Ambassador John Bolton, always appreciate your time, sir. Thanks so much.

BOLTON: Thank you.

MATTINGLY: So now that they've sat down for their first interview, how to Harris and Walz keep up that momentum? And how will they respond to new attacks from Donald Trump and his team, the co-chair of the Harris-Walz campaign joins me live next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[16:41:47]

MATTINGLY: We're back with our 2024 lead.

The Trump campaign already reacting to Vice President Kamala Harris's exclusive interview with CNN or at least the first clip from it.

Joining us now is the co-chair of the Harris-Walz campaign, Democratic Congressman Robert Garcia of California.

Congressman, in terms of that reaction that we've seen, we'll talk about the interview in a minute.

But going after -- the vice president's changing position on several issues. But when pressed by CNN's Dana Bash today, Harris said her values have not changed. That framing, what's your sense of that?

REP. ROBERT GARCIA (D-CA): Look, I've known the vice president for a long time, especially when you think about her years of service here in California as attorney general in the U.S. Senate. And I think she's absolutely right. People that know her understand she's always been someone of principle that puts people first.

That's committed to good government, to ethical government and that's something, of course, that Donald Trump and J.D. Vance will never understand. And so her values have always been centered on fighting for the people she always says her only client, the only client she's always had in her life as a prosecutor. And so, I think everyone's excited to hear the full interview, but I think just in the clip that we've seen, it's clear that she and the governor, I think are going to have a great night tonight.

MATTINGLY: The timing it took for them to sit down and do this and I understand they were launching a campaign and this is unprecedented, I get all that.

Are you concerned at all that it set the bar too high?

The eyes of the political universe are going to be on this interview and everything is going to be picked apart.

GARCIA: No, I mean, look, let's be real honest about the facts. I think in the last year and the vice president has conducted maybe over 80 interviews. She just launched her campaign what, a month ago or so. She's raised over half a billion dollars, $540 million, tens of thousands of volunteers. She's visited close to what, 14 states, many of them multiple times, just became a nominee at the convention.

And now, she's doing, of course, this sit down interview, which is important. She, of course, talks to reporters all the time, you know, in and out of events coming off of her planes as she travels and so, I -- there's going to be many more interviews. This is part of the process. I think there's no question that she is not -- that she hasn't had the most successful presidential launch of any candidate of modern era just over the course of the last few weeks and look at the grassroots fundraising.

So, no, I think -- I think, look, she's going to have an interview tonight. We've obviously seen that first clip. She did a great job some of the reports of what she said out of that interview, I think have been positive. And then we'll move on to other interviews and more importantly, meeting voters where they're at.

MATTINGLY: Well, and also a debate. Of course, this interview is a pretty important moment for this campaign. I admittedly am not -- I'm not a huge fan of the story about debate rules because in the grand scheme of things, they're going to debate, they kind of have to at this point.

But I am -- I do wonder why kind of the back-and-forth over the specific rules. ABC has sent out draft rules, the campaign -- Harris campaign saying what would be technically haven't agreed to him yet. We're still negotiating in this.

Why is this happening right now?

GARCIA: Well, it looks like both Kamala Harris and Donald Trump agree. They want to be able to have mics that are on throughout the debate.

[16:45:00]

Donald Trump does not want to be censored, nor should he be. We want Donald Trump not to be censored.

But, of course, his team I think is nervous and scared of the public seeing the Donald Trump that we all know. And I think its unfortunate that they are trying to censor their own candidate and look, we're going to have a debate. I think this, you know, conversation about what the rules are that matters much.

At the end of the day, we're going to have to two candidates in front of us. But let's be clear: Donald Trump wants to actually be able to save what he wants. His team would like to muzzle him as much as possible.

That's a decision that they'll have to make as a campaign. The vice president is focused on delivering at that debate, making the contrast between someone that is a con man and a convicted felon, and someone that was a horrific president to an actual record of moving the country forward. And so that's what we're going to see at the debate. And I'm -- like everyone else, I'm very excited about it.

MATTINGLY: Co-chair of the Harris-Walz campaign, Democratic Congressman Robert Garcia of California -- thanks so much for your time.

GARCIA: Thank you.

MATTINGLY: Well, Trump's running mate, Senator J.D. Vance got the complete opposite of a warm reception when he walked on stage today for a campaign event. We'll explain why. We'll show what happen in Boston. That's next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[16:50:33]

MATTINGLY: And we're back in the 2024 lead.

Both campaigns are courting voters. One of the largest labor unions in the country, the International Association of Firefighters, Minnesota Governor Tim Walz spoke to the group. Yesterday's remarks seemed to go over quite well with the crowd. And while Senator J.D. Vance did get some applause today, he also got this.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SEN. J.D. VANCE (R-OH), VICE PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: Thank you, guys. Thank you so much. Well --

(BOOING)

VANCE: Semper fi, guys. We've got some -- it sounds like we've got some fans and some haters, that's okay.

President Trump and I are proud to be the most pro-worker Republican ticket in history. And I want to talk about why we're fighting for working people.

(BOOING)

VANCE: Why we're going to fight for unions and non-union alike.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

MATTINGLY: My panel is back with me.

To be clear, that labor union endorsed President Biden back in 2020. They have not endorsed yet, and I have no issue with people going in and talking to maybe unfavorable crowds, less favorable crowds.

What do you think that's kind of showed?

MIKE DUBKE, FORMER TRUMP WHITE HOUSE COMMUNICATIONS DIRECTOR: I -- actually, I thought that was the best I've seen J.D. Vance look in a while in terms of reacting to the reaction that he was getting, that that shows that he's been on the stump for awhile and, you know, you absorb it.

To your point, he went into hostile territory and got booed but accepted it, but he went there, and we finally are going to see at 9:00 tonight, where Vice President Harris went there and she's going to have not a one-on-one interview, but two on one interview which is close enough.

MICHAEL ERIC DYSON, CO-AUTHOR, "UNEQUAL: A STORY OF AMERICA": Yeah, but for me it's I true. I mean, theoretically. But the thing is in practice. Here's a guy who's told the woman running for the presidency of the United States of America yesterday that she can go to hell. I mean, besides being a dim-witted doppelganger of a foolish fascist, what are you doing?

He's got so much more to meet, potentially integrity, intelligence, the capacity to be even slightly presidential, and he's just wasting it all away by deferring to a man who was unprincipled at his core. So I think J.D. Vance going there was great. I think it was courageous at a certain point, but I think he's really squandering his political capital with his behavior.

NAVIN NAYAK, PRESIDENT, CENTER FOR AMERICAN PROGRESS ACTION FUND: I agree on credit for going there. I think the takeaway from me on that scene is you can't fool voters. You can't say -- you can't just show up and have no policies that are actually going to improve their lives, actually just a couple of weeks ago, Donald Trump celebrated ripping away workers rights to actually strike.

So I think same thing on abortion. They took away women's right for that choice in this country, pretending now that, no, no, we're going to protect I think they got to actually go to voters with a genuine plan, which they're not going to do.

We know what their plan is. Is it going to strip away rights and freedoms? And so I think that's the hard sell.

MATTINGLY: But I think -- Kristen, I want to turn this to you because my issue with this is union rank-and-file breaks from Democrats. Their leadership is with them usually. And yet that's a huge problem if they pull 2, 3, 4 points more in Michigan, Pennsylvania, and Wisconsin with labor voters.

KRISTEN SOLTIS ANDERSON, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: That's why it was so notable that the head of the teamsters spoke at the Republican convention. I mean, there were a lot of people saying this feels like it came out of an alternate dimension, but this is a new different Republican Party than existed in the days when maybe Republicans more comfortable talking at country clubs, but not union halls.

I mean, this is a different party and yes, not every union member is going to love that Republicans are showing up in places they didn't before. But it's not just union members versus union leaders, right? I actually I think some of this is in this whole situation with the military and the Trump campaign going after the secretary of army, the separation between like the brass and maybe like your reg -- a list of guys like this separation between the leaders and the average guys in the trenches, like that's a message that Trump and his campaign have always tried to drive.

MATTINGLY: Yeah, it'll be fascinating to watch play out. Thank you guys for hanging out all hour. Can't wait to watch tonight.

Our last leads are next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[16:58:53]

MATTINGLY: Our last leads start with our law and justice lead.

Former Trump aide Steve Bannon is asking a federal judge to release him from prison early. Bannon is serving a four-month sentence for defying a congressional subpoena from the House January 6 committee. But Bannon argues he should walk free early because he's challenging his conviction. Bannon is scheduled for release the end of October.

In our world lead, the CIA says U.S. intelligence helped thwart a terror attack planned for Taylor Swift concert. Earlier this month, you'll remember Austrian law enforcement interrupted an ISIS-inspired plot that threatening to kill, quote, tens of thousands according to CIA Deputy Director David Cohen. Three teenagers have been detained and are suspected of plotting a suicide attack.

An urgent reminder from the CDC today to check your fridge for recalled foods. Boar's Head recalled multiple deli meat products including ham, sausage and bacon due to concerns of potential listeria contamination. In July, people have died and 57 have been hospitalized since May. At least a dozen new listeria cases have been reported in recent weeks.

An important note, Boar's Head says any products for sale now are not part of the recall.

And, of course, a reminder, Dana Bash's full exclusive interview with Vice President Kamala Harris and Governor Tim Walz airs tonight at 9:00 Eastern, right here on CNN, the first interview as the Democratic ticket, and Harris's first interview since Joe Biden dropped out of the race.

And we're just moments away from Dana sharing another piece of that interview that's next in "THE SITUATION ROOM", which about now.