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The Lead with Jake Tapper
Four Days To Go: Harris, Trump Blitzing The Battlegrounds; Harris: Trump's Liz Cheney Comments "Must Be Disqualifying"; The Battle For Control Of The U.S. House; Special Counsel Jack Smith's Office Bracing For Retribution If Trump Wins. Aired 4-5p ET
Aired November 01, 2024 - 16:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
[16:00:06]
BRIANNA KEILAR, CNN HOST: Brain rot.
BORIS SANCHEZ, CNN HOST: What do you think?
KEILAR: Well, now I feel seen because I've heard this coming from my kids. And so I'm like oh, brain rot. I thought they'd just come up with some weird thing. But it turns out, I guess all the kids are saying it.
SANCHEZ: I heard the lulu out there. I guess it means delusional.
KEILAR: Yeah, I like that one.
SANCHEZ: Yeah. Era, I guess we know because Taylor Swift.
KEILAR: Yeah.
SANCHEZ: Thank you so much for joining us today.
THE LEAD WITH JAKE TAPPER starts right now.
JAKE TAPPER, CNN HOST: Four days out, the tension is real.
THE LEAD starts right now.
Vice President Kamala Harris is in battleground Wisconsin today as her campaign says it fully expects Donald Trump to declare victory before all the votes are in.
Then there is the former president today in battleground Michigan, one day after he called former Republican Congresswoman Liz Cheney a, quote, war hawk, who should have, quote, guns trained at her face to see how it feels. How that latest violent comment is going over in Republican circles as Trump now attempts to do damage control.
Plus, the fight for control of Congress. CNN asking Speaker Johnson about what Trump had called Republican victory in the House. Hear Johnson's response.
Plus, his predecessor, former Speaker Nancy Pelosi, will be here, and we'll talk to her about that and much more (MUSIC)
TAPPER: Welcome to THE LEAD. I'm Jake Tapper.
We start with our 2024 lead, with only four days left until votes are tallied in these United States of America. This is the penultimate lead before Election Day. So, let's cue that symphonic melody we've all come to love so much. The CNN election ditty. Thanks.
Nearly 67 million Americans have already cast their ballots. Look at you, you beautiful people voting. Good for you.
Vice President Harris, former President Trump sprinting to the finish line, blitzing key states and commonwealths tonight through Monday. Harris is expected to swing by Wisconsin, and Michigan, and North Carolina, and Georgia and all important Pennsylvania. Trump will visit all those states, too, and tacking on a stop in southwest Virginia.
But record scratch -- because this is where the campaign fund ends and the dark closing message of Donald Trump begins, because overshadowed by Trump's remarks in Arizona last night about former Republican member of Congress, Liz Cheney, is this.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DONALD TRUMP, FORMER U.S. PRESIDENT & 2024 PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: She's a radical war hawk. Let's put her with a rifle standing there with nine barrel shooting at her, okay? Let's see how she feels about it. You know, when the guns are trained on her face.
You know, they're all war hawks when they're sitting in Washington in a nice building saying, oh, gee, well, let's send -- let's send 10,000 troops right into the mouth of the enemy.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
TAPPER: Let's put her with a rifle standing there with nine barrels shooting at her. Okay. Lets see how she feels about it when the guns are trained on her face.
Liz Cheney posted her reaction to Trump this morning, saying, quote, this is how dictators destroy free nations. They threaten those who speak against them with death.
Trump just responded, quote, all I'm saying about Liz Cheney is that she is a war hawk and a dumb one at that. But she wouldn't have the guts to fight herself, unquote.
Here is what Kamala Harris just said as she landed in battleground Wisconsin.
BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
KAMALA HARRIS, VICE PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES & 2024 PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: Anyone who wants to be president of the United States, who uses that kind of violent rhetoric is clearly disqualified and unqualified to be president.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
TAPPER: We should note. This is hardly the first time that Mr. Trump has mused about potential punishments for his nemesis, Liz Cheney. In March of this year, he said, Liz Cheney should be jailed. In June of this year, he called for her to be indicted. In July, he reposted a message on Truth Social that reads: Elizabeth Lynne Cheney is guilty of treason. Retruth if you want televised military tribunals, unquote.
And to be clear, Mr. Trump did in fact retruth that. Now, this latest comment about nine barrels pointed at Liz Cheney is the latest escalation.
There are some Republicans not elected officials, who have soured on Trump well before this latest comment, who have reacted to Trump's most recent remark. Take a listen.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
ALYSSAH FARAH GRIFFIN, FORMER TRUMP WHITE HOUSE COMMUNICATIONS DIRECTOR: It's unconscionable.
SARA SIDNER, CNN ANCHOR: What's this message?
GRIFFIN: It's unconscionable. I don't know how Republican leaders, many of whom served with Liz Cheney and at one point considered her a colleague and friends cannot denounce this.
J. MICHAEL LUTTIG, RETIRED FEDERAL JUDGE: If Americans return, Donald Trump to the White House after those comments about our fellow American, Liz Cheney, statements that Donald Trump would make about any one of his countless other enemies from within, those who voted for him will get what they deserve.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
TAPPER: Many Republicans have alleged being assaulted -- distraught over Joe Biden, referring to Trump supporters as garbage the other night which he walked back.
[16:05:09]
It's worth remembering that over the past few weeks, Mr. Trump has repeatedly called political opponents the enemy so-called, quote radical left lunatics, as well as Democratic members of Congress Nancy Pelosi and Adam Schiff. By the way, we'll ask Nancy Pelosi about that in the next hour.
But, first, let's get to CNN's Kristen Holmes, who's on the campaign trail with Mr. Trump in Milwaukee.
And, Kristen, former President Trump just addressed this.
KRISTEN HOLMES, CNN NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: That's right, Jake. This is actually the second time that he has addressed this as you mentioned, he first posted on Truth Social. Now, he addressed it with a group of reporters just to be clear, this is not something we often see from the former president. He says whatever he wants to say. And then we see the campaign playing cleanup.
But here in this case, he is taking it on as well, trying to clean up those remarks. Here's what he said.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TRUMP: She's a war hawk. She kills people. She wanted to even in my administration she was pushing. We go to war with everybody. And I said, if you ever give her a rifle, to help you in the fighting, if you ever do that, she wouldn't be doing too well. I will tell you right now.
But she's a war hawk. She wants to go kill people unnecessarily and if she had to do it herself and she had to face the consequences of battle, she wouldn't be doing it. So it's easy for her to talk, but she wouldn't be doing it. She's actually a disgrace.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
HOLMES: And to be clear, the fact that he is spending so much time on this himself really gives an indication that he or and his team believe that this could be consequential or have some ramifications as voters head to the polls ahead of Tuesday. One other thing to point out here, Jake, I know you said this but I just want to reiterate, while we are contextualizing this, while we are giving the characterization , playing the full sound.
The problem with Donald Trump is that he often goes too far. And two, he's not built an enormous amount of goodwill given the fact that he has said that he is seeking retribution, that he will be your retribution, that Democrats are the enemy within, et cetera, et cetera, making it hard to clarify these kind of remarks is something different, Jake.
TAPPER: All right. Kristen Holmes with Trump in Milwaukee, thanks so much.
Vice President Harris is speaking right now at a union in Wisconsin. Let's listen in.
HARRIS: Revenge and retribution full time. The man is angry, right? It -- but you know what I'm talking about.
So imagine on January 20th, it's either that him plotting over his enemies list or me working for you on my to-do list? That's what were talking about. That's what we're talking about. That's what we're talking about.
Because I like hard work and at the top of my list is bringing down your cost of living. And it will be my focus every single day as president. I will always put the middle class first. I come from the middle class, and I never forget where I come from. I never forget, never. (APPLAUSE)
HARRIS: And we know the strength in the middle class, we must make sure that America not China wins the competition for the 21st century.
Under my plan, we will invest in the industries that built America like steel, iron, the electric power industry, and we will ensure that the next generation of breakthroughs from advanced batteries to cutting edge solar panels, are not just invented, but built right here in America by American workers.
TAPPER: All right, that's Kamala Harris speaking at a union hall in Janesville, Wisconsin, going after that union vote that she needs so much in those battleground states.
Let's bring in our panel.
Here's more from retired Republican judge Michael Luttig, a conservative on Trump's comment about Liz Cheney. Take a listen.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
MICHAEL LUTTIG, RETIRED FEDERAL JUDGE: Were reprehensible. Every citizen of the country, especially Republicans, has an obligation to themselves and to America, to watch the video from last night and ponder those un-American words by Donald Trump before they cast their votes.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
TAPPER: Jamie Gangel, you've been speaking to a lot of prominent officials, Democrats and Republicans. What are you hearing?
JAMIE GANGEL, CNN SPECIAL CORRESPONDENT: Look, there is no question. This is dangerous political rhetoric. And just imagine, for a moment if someone had said this about Donald Trump. I think the other thing --
TAPPER: Just for the record, God forbid, we don't want that.
GANGEL: Absolutely. Under this should not be out there. One Republican said to me that they were appalled, but then they said, well, you know, he never locked up Liz Cheney -- Hillary Clinton.
[16:10:02]
TAPPER: Hillary Clinton.
GANGEL: But that is really a false equivalency because as we have reported over and over, no one expects a second Trump term to look like a first Trump term. The guardrails will be gone. There will be no General Kelly, Milley, Mattis, the Justice Department. He's made it very clear that he will put people in those jobs who say yes to him.
TAPPER: Alencia, take a listen to what Republican Congressman Tim Burchett of Tennessee said on CNN earlier today about the potential impact of these remarks.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
REP. TIM BURCHETT (R-TN): This is no issue that will decide anything it just allows Liz Cheney to get up and sell more books and be more critical of the Trump administration.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
TAPPER: I have to say, I'm not so sure. I mean, I thought, you know, Biden's gaffe the other night, calling Trump supporters garbage was a huge mistake. And who knows what impact it would have.
And here's the candidate himself. Biden is not a candidate. Here's the candidate himself making comments. I mean, it's going to come down to a few thousand voters in just a few states.
ALENCIA JOHNSON, DEMOCRATIC STRATEGIST: I mean, the double standard and the hypocrisy is so wild to me like, you cannot denounce this rhetoric especially when we have seen over the past several years the increase in political violence and to the that there aren't going to be guardrails around Donald Trump should he become president again, which I do believe he will not.
But the reality is, Republicans, this is why there are so many folks independents and some Republican women, who are actually tired of not only Donald Trump's dangerous rhetoric, but also the people who are making excuses about it, because this is an excuse. He directly said. What he thinks should happen to Liz Cheney just because she disagrees with him.
TAPPER: And I think, Matt, one of the things and you know, this as a former candidate for your office yourself like the idea, I mean whether or not anybody actually thinks Donald Trump before a firing squad is not really the point. The point is its dangerous, violent rhetoric at a time when people are committing horrific acts of political violence, including against him including against him. But I'm not in favor of any of it, you know?
MATT MOWERS, FORMER TRUMP ADMINISTRATION OFFICIAL: Well, let me say I think there's two different points here, and I think, you know, I'm one of these Republicans who doesn't always parrot the party line.
TAPPER: No, no, of course.
MOWERS: Critique Donald Trump, might disagree with him.
I actually think if you look at the full comments, I agree with Judge Luttig. Every American should watch the full video. You get the point. Donald Trump was actually making.
He wasn't calling for Liz Cheney to be on a firing line. What he was calling for was the exact -- hold on, hang tight. The exact same thing, by the way that we heard a lot of folks when they were campaigning against George Bush in 2004, say, when he was sending troops off to Iraq and Afghanistan, saying, if you haven't been there, your family is not going there. Do you really know what the impact is?
GANGEL: Okay. But, Matt --
MOWERS: And that's -- that's -- if you look at, that's what he was saying. And look, I say this as someone who's willing to he went over the line like when he said she should be indicted. I disagree with him. I'll call him out for that.
But if you look at the point he's saying yesterday, he's talking about a larger issue right now, and I will say this, I think the reason he's going out there and talking about it more is they don't think this is necessarily a political loser right now.
I mean you know, you go out, Jamie, I think you and I were on the air, the night that, you know, Liz Cheney was out there campaigning with Kamala Harris, and I believe it was Wisconsin. Since then, what's happened since they've campaigned with Liz Cheney in Wisconsin, Michigan and Pennsylvania, the polls have tightened.
You know why? Republicans candidly, kind of like me a little more, you know neoconservative, a little more establishment are going out of vogue right now.
(CROSSTALK)
MOWERS: The American voters are looking to someone who doesn't agree with them with foreign policy.
TAPPER: Okay.
GANGEL: Just give me one second.
TAPPER: Yeah, yeah.
GANGEL: Number one, you want to call Liz Cheney, a war hawk? Go ahead, do it. You don't need all the other dangerous language around it.
The other thing is about polls tightening. Polls tighten when you get closer to Election Day.
JOHNSON: Right, and to be clear, like we cannot negate what has been happening. Donald Trump's incendiary language like this led us to January 6th, right? Like that is hanging over the backdrop of this entire election. It is language like this that has emboldened some people to light ballot boxes on fire, right? Like we are in a time --
MOWERS: I don't know if we can say that that's what's causing this.
(CROSSTALK)
JOHNSON: I'm saying there is dangerous language here that people are actually taking matters into their own hands Donald Trump, literally attempted assassination towards him, right?
There are so many things that are happening, and so you can make -- paint this picture, not using that language. GANGEL: Right.
TAPPER: Right. The argument of, oh, you know, she -- the general argument about conservatives and you're right, this we heard that kind of language maybe not that violent, but that kind of language critical of Bush and Dick Cheney, her dad, during the first the George W. Bush administration, especially the first term.
But I think it's the imagery of the invocation, the nine guns in her face shooting at her, that sort of thing. That's what people --
MOWERS: And to that point, should he have said that? No. And you know why mostly from a political -- not mostly but in part because of a political piece, right? We had a jobs report, came out today, show that we've actually had a revision downward of the number of jobs created. Actually, the new jobs report is only 10 percent of the number of jobs they expected to be created this month.
And that's a problem for Kamala Harris and Joe Biden. He should be talking about that.
JOHNSON: Well, but these comments are helpful to Kamala Harris when it comes to talking to women voters who actually are tired of this kind of right.
[16:15:00]
TAPPER: Well, I think -- I think he's agreeing with you.
(LAUGHTER)
MOWERS: Yeah.
TAPPER: All right. Everyone, stick around. We have a lot more to talk about.
I'm also going to get reaction to Trump's Cheney comment from a Republican described as the conscience of the next Trump administration. Should there be one, he will join me next.
And the flood of political ads swamping your social media feeds dark money is often behind the messaging, but you might be surprised to learn who is benefiting from it more. That story is coming up.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
TAPPER: In our 2024 lead, Donald Trump defended his comments about Congresswoman Liz Cheney by saying he was talking about how she's a, quote, war hawk, and, quote, wouldn't have the guts to fight herself.
Joining me now is Republican Senator Bill Hagerty of Tennessee.
Senator, so here is the full comment and the full context of his criticism of Liz Cheney. Let's roll it and then discuss at the end of it.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DONALD TRUMP, FORMER U.S. PRESIDENT & 2024 PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: She's a radical war hawk. Let's put her with a rifle standing there with nine barrel shooting at her, okay? Let's see how she feels about it. You know, when the guns are trained on her face.
You know, they're all war hawks when they're sitting in Washington in a nice building saying, oh, gee, well, let's send -- let's send 10,000 troops right into the mouth of the enemy.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
[16:20:04]
TAPPER: Are you comfortable with the part of what he said when he talked about the guns trained on her face, nine barrels shooting at her?
SEN. BILL HAGERTY (R-TN): Jake, what he's doing, and if you take the whole thing into context, he's trying to explain that there are people in Washington that make decisions that involve people's lives. Those decisions are made and our lives - our service members' lives are put at risk.
Take the decision about Afghanistan and the withdrawal there, 13 servicemen and women were killed that day in Kabul.
TAPPER: Uh-huh.
HAGERTY: That was because of a poor decision that was taken in Washington by people that had no skin in the game. I had to personally call Ryan Knauss parents that day about what had happened. Kamala Harris is yet to call them.
I mean, these decisions are critical. They're vital, and these people need to put themselves in the shoes of those who are actually going to be on the front line. That's the point that president Trump was trying to make.
I think the reason this is blowing up right now is because were only four days away from the election. President Trump is winning, and this is another desperate hoax. Just like the bloodbath hoax. You know,
I was in Tokyo when the hoax over President Trump dumping the fish food in the koi pond came out. I saw exactly what happened there. This network carried it, suggesting that president Trump had insulted the entirety of the Japanese population.
I was right there. He did exactly as Prime Minister Abe did. Yet again, we spin things out like this.
We need to get back to the point.
TAPPER: I --
HAGERTY: And the point is that people are concerned about the economy. People want to see real results. And not talking about this sort of stuff.
TAPPER: Okay, I have a vague memory of the koi pond incident but I have certainly corrected people when they've inaccurately referred to the bloodbath comment. He was referring to an economic bloodbath, et cetera. You're right about that.
HAGERTY: Thank you.
TAPPER: But -- first of all, I don't think you're arguing that the only people who should be making decisions about sending troops into harm's way are people who have served.
HAGERTY: No, I'm not saying that, Jake, but I'm saying that this is a -- these are decisions with tremendous gravity and the point that President Trump was trying to make. And I've worked with him for years.
TAPPER: Yeah.
HAGERTY: He uses he illustrates his points perhaps differently than I would, but the point that he was trying to make is that you should be thinking about it as if you're the one or your son or daughter were the one that were going to be facing that sort of that sort of threat.
TAPPER: And how you said it. I have no issue with I think, I think the question is the very violent rhetoric and imagery at a time when political violence is very real, all too real, as Mr. Trump knows himself.
Trump's running mate, Senator J.D. Vance of Ohio, called on Democrats to, quote, tone down the rhetoric. I don't think this is toning down the rhetoric. Do you?
HAGERTY: I think what he's doing is making a very clear point. And the point is, I think, very relevant right now because we have servicemen and women that are very close to being put into harms way. Some are in harms way. Joe Biden couldn't even remember the fact that we lost the 13 servicemen and women under his watch. These are very serious decisions that are being made, and people should take it seriously. That's the point here.
TAPPER: Okay. I just wonder on a as a political level, I mean, we've seen Mr. Trump's campaign putting out press releases, trying to clarify what he said. Mr. Trump put out a truth social statement he just said something about this.
Obviously, whether or not everybody hears the message and, you know, we ran the clip, we ran the whole clip. And we're not saying he's calling for her to be assassinated or killed.
I think the issue is the very violent imagery at a time when Republicans are saying, oh, Democrats need to tone down the rhetoric.
Are you worried at all politically that, you know, this is going to be decided by a handful of voters and a handful of states, that this could hurt? HAGERTY: Well, let me just say this, Jake, war is serious war is deadly. He was making that point with this, this, this analogy. I think that's what's here. That's the point here.
What we're talking about, though, is the fact that President Trump is actually winning. Voters would much prefer to hear about what Kamala Harris's position is on the economy, what she's going to do to fix our broken southern border, to take crime in our streets down, to make our nation more safe and secure.
Rather than talk about that, we're going to blow up yet another one of these stories into some sort of pre-election day hoax. I think we should move on.
TAPPER: I don't know how you define hoax. This is not a hoax. We ran his clip and you know, there are people who are legitimately offended by that.
HAGERTY: This is a distortion, Jake. This is a distortion.
TAPPER: I ran the entire quote, Senator. We ran the entire thing. And I have not --
HAGERTY: This is a distortion about violence. And the violence he's talking about is the violence that's perpetrated on our men and women in service and the decisions that are made by people like Liz Cheney to send them into the throes.
TAPPER: Liz Cheney was an assistant secretary of state. When did she send anyone into battle?
HAGERTY: I think President Trump is making a broad statement and using her as an example of the war hawks in Washington that make these decisions from the comfort of an office, perhaps not taking into account the fact that there are very serious consequences. Those consequences are realized by those people that are in the foxhole, those people that are actually in combat situations. That's what he was illustrating and nothing more.
TAPPER: So you think that anyone that takes issue with him invoking, let's put her with a rifle, standing there with nine barrels, shooting at her when the guns aren't trained on her face. You think anyone that takes issue with that is either perpetrating or falling victim to a hoax?
[16:25:01]
There's no one that can legitimately say that's violent imagery at that the time --
HAGERTY: What I'm saying, Jake, is this is a distortion.
TAPPER: What's a distortion? I read that -- we played the whole clip.
HAGERTY: This is a distortion of what's -- this is a distortion of what President Trump meant and you know it. President Trump wasn't calling for, you know, any type of violence on Liz Cheney.
TAPPER: I didn't say he was.
HAGERTY: What he's talking about was her to consider, to consider the violence that anybody that we put into that circumstance might face. It's as simple as that. We need to get back to talking about the fact that President Trump is the only person that's on the ballot that can actually fix the damage that Kamala Harris and Joe Biden have done over the past four years.
And all of this talk on the campaign trail by Kamala Harris about what she's going to do, well, she hasn't done it. President Trump already has. People are asking themselves this basic question, am I better off today under Kamala Harris than I was under President Trump?
TAPPER: So --
HAGERTY: That's why he's moving in the polls the way he is, that's why they're so desperate right now to come up with this stuff.
TAPPER: So I mean, that's what I heard from Democrats the other day when we were playing how Joe Biden called Trump supporters garbage. So I got the same response back that this is all nonsense. It's a distraction. We're not covering the real issues.
You know, it's the closing days of the campaign. If people say stupid things, we're going to cover it.
HAGERTY: It is.
TAPPER: But you didn't say it, Senator, so I hope you come back and we can talk about --
HAGERTY: Thank you, Jake.
TAPPER: -- some substantive issues after --
HAGERTY: No, thanks for having me.
TAPPER: After the election, and it's good to see you and --
HAGERTY: Let's get to the important issues.
TAPPER: God bless on that. Thank you, sir. Appreciate it.
HAGERTY: Thank you very much. Thanks.
TAPPER: As the nation comes up on the final days of early voting, we're talking with top election officials, especially in battleground states, about issues they're seeing. We're going to go to battleground Michigan, which either Trump or Harris could win. Who knows? That's next.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[16:30:21] TAPPER: Continuing with our 2024 lead election officials in the blue wall state of Michigan have been dealing with isolated mistakes, missteps that are being amplified and distorted on social media.
And Michigan's Democratic Secretary of State Jocelyn Benson is here to try to explain things.
Thanks so much for joining us.
So let's start with your answer earlier this week to a question that was asked about certain Dominion voting machines. A reporter brought up an issue with some specialized Dominion machines that would make it more cumbersome for people with disabilities to split their ticket and vote for candidates from different parties.
Let's play what you said.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
JOCELYN BENSON (D), MICHIGAN SECRETARY OF STATE: This is a nationwide issue with dominion voter access terminals in the counties that use them and the voter access terminals. Of course, not all the machines, just the ones that are accessible, have an issue with the straight party voting and a programming issue that's again affected the machines nationwide.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
TAPPER: So is it a -- is it a nationwide issue? Elon Musk posted, among others, posted that on social media. Is it -- do we still think it's a nationwide issue?
BENSON: No, it's not and Dominion has explained that this only affects users and their voter assist terminals, which are different than tabulators in Michigan. And so, I should have said statewide issue. I said nationwide and that's an example of in this moment that were in, you say one thing and it extrapolates into this massive issue when in reality, its actually a very minor technical issue that doesn't even apply to tabulators. But applies to voter assist terminals in Michigan that is quickly able to be addressed by explaining to citizens how to correctly fill out their ballot.
No, no, we have no issues of people being prevented from voting as a result of this ballot. Access is secure as well as accurate so -- but again, in this moment, right? Democracy is on the -- on the line and it shouldn't surprise us to see small things metastasizing into large conspiracy theories and, and, you know, we've been working to explain this ever since.
TAPPER: Yeah and also, just a reminder that elections officials are almost for the almost entirely operating in good faith, but also fallible human beings who misspeak sometimes et cetera.
And as long as there is transparency and explanations, we as a society should -- should be able to behave like adults and work through it. On another matter, I want to bring up your Republican counterpart,
Georgia Secretary of state, Brad Raffensperger, posted a warning that his state has been targeted with what he calls, quote, obviously fake online videos containing disinformation. He says videos likely coming from Russian troll farms are out there.
Are you seeing anything like that in Michigan and what is your advice to people who see things like this popping up in social media and are alarmed?
BENSON: Well, in this moment we all have to be critical consumers of information.
We have to recognize that Russia and China and other foreign adversaries have an incentive to try to confuse us, deceive us, divide us in this moment in particular, and so in these next few days, as in the lead up to November 5th, we have to be extra vigilant about anything we see on social media, whether it's a tweet from Elon Musk or whether its these videos that are going viral or statements from political designed. Much of it is designed to really confuse folks right now.
And it's important to turn to trusted sources of information like election officials we've created a website Michigan.gov/electionfacts for people to get information on all these things. Also, in Michigan, we banned the use of artificial intelligence to intentionally mislead citizens about their voting rights on things like this. So, we have some legal tools at our disposal if types of videos emerge, depending on how and what and where. But at the same time nothing can replace the importance of a well-engaged, informed citizen. And that's what we all have to be in this moment.
TAPPER: Nothing wrong with anybody asking questions, but don't jump to conclusions before things are investigated and questions are answered.
Michigan Secretary of State Jocelyn Benson, thanks so much.
BENSON: Thanks for having me.
TAPPER: Coming up next, hear what Speaker Mike Johnson told CNN when asked about Trump's hint at a little secret to win Republican control of the House. What was he talking about? Well, Johnson will tell us. Later, his predecessor, former House Speaker Nancy Pelosi, she's going to be here live on THE LEAD.
Stay with us.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[16:39:04]
TAPPER: In our 2024 lead, a question that almost certainly will not be answered on election night, will Democrats flip control of the U.S. House of Representatives? We'll be joined by former Democratic Speaker Nancy Pelosi in our next hour.
But let's go to the leader of the majority party in the House first.
CNN's Manu Raju caught up with the current speaker, Republican Mike Johnson.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The office of speaker of the house declared vacant.
MANU RAJU, CNN CHIEF CONGRESSIONAL CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): It's been a chaotic two years in the GOP-led House.
(CROSSTALK)
RAJU: An ousted speaker in rampant infighting.
Now, Speaker Mike Johnson is trying to do what once seemed improbable, hang on to power and even grow their razor-thin majority.
REP. MIKE JOHNSON (R-LA), SPEAKER OF THE HOUSE: Mr. President, I'm here in New York.
RAJU: As he barnstormed more than 20 states in October alone. Johnson is hoping to turn out the MAGA base even in Democratic leaning districts, and making a pitch for unified GOP control of Washington.
JOHNSON: Everybody in the world is watching what happens on Long Island and in the state of New York. That is not an exaggeration.
RAJU: Trump meanwhile, relying on Johnson and saying this last week at Madison Square Garden.
TRUMP: He and I have a secret. We'll tell you what it is when the race is over.
RAJU: But Johnson now says that simply meant getting out the vote, even as Democrats fear he and Trump will try to block a Harris victory.
I know you said that this is a get out the vote effort.
JOHNSON: Yes.
RAJU: But -- but have you and him talked about not accepting the election results if Harris wins?
JOHNSON: Of course not. I've taken an oath to uphold the Constitution. And we are going to do our job. This is not -- this shouldn't even be a question or a controversy.
RAJU: So if Harris wins, you'd accept the results?
JOHNSON: Yes. Look, I'm going to qualify this and this is going to make everybody freak out again. If it's a free and fair election, I'm saying the exact same thing that Jamie Raskin is saying.
RAJU: But it's Trump who, once again, is pushing unsubstantiated claims of voter fraud.
Trump is already sowing doubts about the election, about Pennsylvania. Does that concern you?
JOHNSON: Trump is not sowing doubt. What he and all of us are trying to do is have accountability to ensure that we don't have hijinks and irregularities.
RAJU: To keep power in the House, Republicans have to defend 16 seats in districts, Joe Biden won, including in California and New York, as they target five Democratic districts that Trump carried in 2020.
That means the next House majority will likely be narrow once again, and another recipe for gridlock.
Why do you guys deserve another two years in power?
JOHNSON: Well, we did pass a lot of legislation. It's died on Chuck Schumer's desk and --
RAJU: You had trouble passing your own legislation on the House, too.
JOHNSON: On occasion, but we also had some big landmark legislation sent over there and it died because the Democrats control the Senate.
RAJU: But you have a narrow majority, no matter what. And you had a difficult time with this last narrow majority.
JOHNSON: Well, I had the most narrow majority in U.S. history. I'm convinced we're going to have a larger majority this time. And then if we have unified government, I think everybody on my side is going to be in a much better mood. And I think they'll want to be part of the reform agenda. And not -- not -- not a speed bump in a way.
RAJU: The race for the house poised to be the most expensive ever, with Democrats spending over $476 million on the air, outpacing the GOP by more than $100 million.
But Democrats fear that a unified GOP Washington will leave Trump unchecked including to target his enemies.
TRUMP: It's the enemy from within. All the scum that we have to deal with.
RAJU: If he wins, he's talked about going after his enemies. Would you dissuade him from doing that?
JOHNSON: I -- he is not going to go after his enemies.
RAJU: He said that repeatedly.
JOHNSON: Listen, the Democrats have engaged in lawfare. So all this hyperbole trying to scare people, it's nonsense. That's not going to happen. We're going to follow the law.
(END VIDEOTAPE) RAJU (on camera): Now as Johnson suggested earlier this week, that he would do away with Obamacare. When I spoke to him, Jake, he actually said that they would not try to repeal the Affordable Care Act if they do maintain control of the House. Also, I asked him what happens if they lose the House, would you run for House minority leader? He told me he has not given a second of thought to that idea as he pushes to keep the House -- Jake.
TAPPER: All right. Our thanks to Manu Raju for that. Thank you so much, Manu.
After the election, Donald Trump still has a mountain legal problems to deal with. How the special counsel, Jack Smith, is bracing for retribution if Trump wins? The new reporting that's just coming in to CNN, that's next.
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[16:47:18]
TAPPER: Some news just in to our law and justice lead. Today, the Office of Special Counsel Jack Smith is bracing for retribution if Donald Trump wins the election. Smith's office, of course, brought historic indictments against the former president.
Let's go to CNN's Katelyn Polantz.
Katelyn, how is special counsel Smith preparing for the possibility of a Trump victory?
KATELYN POLANTZ, CNN SENIOR CRIME AND JUSTICE CORRESPONDENT: Yeah, really bracing for the end if Donald Trump were to win the presidency and knowing that there would be a lot of decisions. The Justice Department and the special counsel, Jack Smith, himself would have to make that no one has ever confronted before in the American presidency, in history, with the Justice Department.
So I've talked to several sources with who offer a window into the special counsel's office. Right now, their prosecutors are keeping their head down. They know that if Trump is the president elect, ultimately, when he becomes the sitting president, the cases will end in some fashion. They cannot as the Justice Department continue prosecuting a case against a sitting president. That's the federal documents case in Florida and then the January 6th federal case in Washington, D.C.
But one of the things that Smith and the department is going to have to decide is do they continue a case against a president-elect even if it doesn't have much movement in court? What do they do in that interim period of a transition? If Trump secures the presidency shortly after Election Day?
One former Justice Department official with some insight into this told me, you know, Jack Smith, he's not often the one to say, I'm going to fold the tent. He is a person that will continue on until he cannot continue anymore, Jake. TAPPER: Right. Of course, Trump did say last week that Trump -- that Jack Smith should be thrown out of the country. What are you hearing about the individual prosecutors in the office?
POLANTZ: Yeah, so Trump also said he would fire Smith within two seconds. Well see exactly how that plays out. There's a lot of ways it could.
But the individual prosecutors their career folks, they are not serving at the pleasure of the president and would not be able to be fired like that. They would have the option to go back to other parts of the Justice Department. But a lot of them right now, I am hearing, are thinking about what to do next. Do they want to stay in those jobs? Do they leave, and how do they brace themselves for very likely congressional investigations and other need lawyers of their own?
TAPPER: All right. Katelyn Polantz, thanks so much. Appreciate it.
Continuing with our 2024 lead, you might be surfing the web one -- web one day and you see what looks like wildly partisan information in the clothing of a newscast. Well, beware. Instead of real news that might actually be the result of money raised and spent by partisan organizations with their own agendas no legal obligation to tell you where their money comes from, dressed up to look like an actual news organization.
[16:50:02]
We asked CNN's Tom Foreman to shine a light on this so-called dark money spending, much of which is being done by Democrats.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Trump could make abortion inaccessible without passing any new laws.
TOM FOREMAN, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): More than $2.5 million in just 30 days. That's how much a conservative activist says Courier Newsroom has spent pushing progressive election stories on social media.
MICHAEL DUNCAN, CO-HOST RUTHLESS PODCAST: They're lemmings. We know this, folks.
FOREMAN: Michael Duncan is co-host of the conservative "Ruthless" podcast and says his analysis of social media data shows that onslaught of information is largely being fueled with dark money, funds from unknown, unreported sources.
DUNCAN: Left wing dark money groups dwarf right wing groups by magnitudes, but because they are technically news media and not a political campaign, they don't actually have to report any of that advertising as independent expenditures to the FEC.
FOREMAN: Courier Newsroom readily says it is a progressive digital news network and we are transparent about our values and our funding model.
And while not confirming that big spending number notes the data, it is based on does not differentiate between political and nonpolitical content.
Still, watchdog group Open Secrets says when it comes to dark money spending on Facebook, Instagram and other social media sites in this election --
ANNA MASSOGLIA, EDITORIAL AND INVESTIGATIONS MANAGER AT OPEN SECRETS: Democrats are benefiting more at those -- at those levels.
FOREMAN: In 2010, the Supreme Court's Citizens United ruling paved the way for more outside political funding, and Democrats howled.
REP. NANCY PELOSI (D-CA): Republican support, opening the floodgates to special interest money and suppressing the right to vote. It's just plain wrong.
FOREMAN: But Open Secrets has found, as more and more money has flowed from unknown sources, it was up to $2.6 billion in 2022. The left has exploited that ruling better than those on the right, with this important caveat. That's just what we know at this moment.
MASSOGLIA: There's a whole universe of dark money groups that not only don't have to disclose their donors, but also don't have to disclose their spending. So it makes it hard to see which side is benefiting more than the other.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
FOREMAN (on camera): That is a real problem, because sometimes it takes weeks or months, or you just never know, Jake, where this money is coming from that fuels these campaigns, which, as you note, some of which were in the news business, you have to look close to realize it's not really news the bottom line is both parties have now embraced this practice including Democrats, who once said it was a terrible thing. It's now a serious weapon in their arsenal.
TAPPER: Interesting.
Tom Foreman, thanks so much.
Donald Trump is speaking right now in battleground Michigan. Lets dip in and listen to a little of that.
TRUMP: -- be excited. It's been hard to -- it's been hard to say. But now we're down to four days. Four days, right, front row, Joe? No, I mean, if you think, you know, we're down to four days. Wow. We thought it would never come, right? We thought it would never come.
I'm asking you to dream big again. You have to dream big. Its hard for you to think of that because you've been so hurt by these incompetent fools that have been running our country.
This would be America's new golden age every problem facing us can be solved, and it's going to be solved quickly. But now the fate of our nation is in your hands. And it really is. It's in. You got to vote. You got to vote.
Don't believe the polls that were way up or we're pretty far up, but a couple of them way up. One gentleman, a great pollster, they say he said we have a 97 percent chance of winning. I said, don't believe it, don't believe it, don't believe it -- don't believe it.
I think he's a Democrat because nothing matters except what happens on Tuesday, when you think of it, right? Oh, does it matter?
So just pretend that we're one point down. We're not. We're up. But pretend that we're one point down.
On Tuesday, you have to stand up and you have to tell Kamala that you've had enough. You can't take it anymore. You're the worst vice president in history. You're the worst border czar in the history of the world.
We're not going to let you destroy our country. Kamala, you're fired! Get the hell out of here!
TAPPER: All right, Donald Trump in Warren, Michigan.
Let's get back in our coverage to that remark today Donald Trump made about Liz Cheney. He called her a war hawk who should have, quote, guns trained at her face to see how it feels. The campaign -- trump campaign arguing he's trying to make a point about the eagerness with which some send our service members to war.
[16:55:06]
We're going to talk about what he said with one of the most well- sourced reporters who covers Trump. Maggie Haberman joins us next on THE LEAD.
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TAPPER: Welcome to THE LEAD. I'm Jake Tapper.
The final countdown is on. We're just four days from Election Day, the last chance for candidates to get out their messages and convince voters. Wait a second. Did we forget something?
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TAPPER: Thank you. CNN's election music. My sweet jam.
Both presidential campaigns are spending their last days on the trail in some of the crucial battleground states, Wisconsin, Michigan, North Carolina, Georgia, Pennsylvania.
It is specifically the Badger State for Vice President Harris today, where she wrapped up her first event in the last hour. She has two more tonight.
Former President Trump is in Michigan, where we just saw him taking the stage in the city of Warren just moments ago.
