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CNN NewsNight with Abby Phillip
Trump Tries Taking Back Attention at News Conference; Harris Camp Says, Trump's News Conference a Public Meltdown; Trump Compares His Crowd Size to I Have a Dream Speech; "NewsNight" Follows The 2024 State Of Presidential Race; Some Democrats Push Back Against Rhetorical Attacks Against Governor Tim Walz And His Military Service. Aired 10-11p ET
Aired August 08, 2024 - 22:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
[22:00:00]
AUDIE CORNISH, CNN ANCHOR: Tonight, a rattled Donald Trump digs up an old playbook --
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DONALD TRUMP (R), FORMER U.S. PRESIDENT, 2024 PRESIDENTIAL NOMINEE: We are in great danger, tremendous danger. This country is in big trouble.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
CORNISH: -- to blunt the rise of Kamala Harris.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
D. TRUMP: She's a radical left person at a level that nobody's seen.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
CORNISH: From airing old grievances --
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
D. TRUMP: We have no borders. We have bad voting regulations. I just hope we're going to have honest elections.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
CORNISH: -- to re-litigating crowd size --
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
D. TRUMP: Nobody's spoken to crowds bigger than me.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
CORNISH: -- garden variety insults --
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP) D. TRUMP: She's not smart enough.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
CORNISH: And autocrat envy.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
D. TRUMP: North Korea, Kim Jong-un likes me a lot.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
CORNISH: Plus, Trump backs away from backing out of the debate. Now --
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
KAMALA HARRIS, U.S. VICE PRESIDENT, DEMOCRATIC PRESIDENTIAL NOMINEE: I agreed free to a debate on September 10th. I'm looking forward to it.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
CORNISH: -- a date is set.
And stopping Swift Boat 2.0, the left defends Tim Waltz and his military record.
Live at the table, Bakari Sellers, Tricia McLaughlin, S.E. Cupp, and Mike Dubke. Welcome to a special edition of NewsNight, State of the Race.
Good evening, I'm Audie Cornish in New York. Abby Phillip is off tonight.
So, let's get right to what America is talking about, whether Donald Trump can cut short the Harris campaign's political honeymoon. And Trump had to work to do something he's never had trouble with before, steal the spotlight. And despite this being a very online election, he did it the old fashioned way, taking questions at a news conference at Mar-a-Lago.
So, what's interesting is we got a glimpse into how he sees the state of the race. But if it sounds familiar, that's because you might have heard some of these lines before, say on the economy. When we look back to 2016 and 2020 --
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
D. TRUMP: You're going to have a depression worldwide, the likes of which you've never seen.
If the Democrats get back in, you will have a depression the likes of which you've never seen.
We have a lot of bad things coming up. You could end up in a depression of the 1929 variety, which would be a devastating thing.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
CORNISH: Then he ran it back on foreign policy.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
D. TRUMP: Do you want to have World War III to get it back?
There could have been a World War III.
We're in great danger of being in World War III. That could happen.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
CORNISH: Meanwhile, the Harris campaign tried to paint Trump's reset as a, quote, public meltdown.
So, here to discuss, and I want to talk to you first coming from the Trump White House at one point, Mike. First, Mike, I thought the convention was about lionizing Trump after the assassination attempt. It wasn't so much talking about policy, right? It was like, here's a great person, et cetera. But today, he came out and it really felt like he was trying to talk again like a person running for election.
MIKE DUBKE, FORMER TRUMP WHITE HOUSE COMMUNICATIONS DIRECTOR: Well, I think you've got a number of things happening. First of all, at the convention, that was a much different atmosphere, when they were focused on Biden, it was right after the assassination attempt and they were trying to reframe, you know, kind of really reframe how they were going to run for the next three months.
CORNISH: And that was their honeymoon in a way, right?
DUBKE: That was their honeymoon, absolutely. That was a month. It lasted a month from the debate on CNN until the end of the -- really until that Sunday when Biden dropped out, there was a honeymoon for the Trump campaign and the Trump fans campaign.
I think today really was an attempt, and as you've portrayed it, of trying to inject it their campaign into what has been the honeymoon for Vice President Harris.
CORNISH: I was joking about the spotlight, but I mean, it's unusual, right? He hasn't been in the headlines every minute. I don't know how, like you feel the same way.
DUBKE: But he needs to be. I mean, look, he's running a campaign.
CORNISH: But usually he doesn't have trouble, right? Like, usually, it's like every day, Trump is doing this, Trump is doing that. I mean, do you feel --
TRICIA MCLAUGHLIN, FORMER TRUMP ADMINISTRATION OFFICIAL: I completely agree. I mean, that's the first time Donald Trump's really had a hard time stealing the spotlight. I thought it was very smart of him to have this press conference, not just for the substance of it, but the image. Kamala Harris has not sat down for an interview. She's not done press conferences. She'll take a couple gaggle questions, but they're very, very light on substance, probably five word answers. So the fact that he's going 60, 64 minutes with the press taking every question, that in itself is a good image of juxtaposition.
[22:05:02]
I also think he's hoping maybe the press will start to force her hand actually have a sit-down.
BAKARI SELLERS, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: No, I think it was a real good juxtaposition, because as someone who loves Kamala Harris and talks to the campaign often, we would take this every day of the week. What you saw was a man who was melting down. What you saw was not too many truths coming out of his mouth.
CORNISH: So, define meltdown. Just because I have -- there are levels, right? There's sharks and Hannibal Lecter and then there's like today.
SELLERS: There is a meltdown for someone who doesn't understand the difference between like insane asylum and seeking asylum, like but let's set that aside. But what we saw today was an individual who was clamoring for attention, who hadn't had it for a very long period of time, who just -- he does not have a propensity to tell the truth. And when you juxtapose that against someone who was on message, there's no message that came out of today.
CORNISH: There are some messages. I want to play some tape because we're finally seeing maybe -- well, no, I want to play this because he's finally landing on --
SELLERS: Let me also just put a pin in it real quick, because there is a huge difference between Donald Trump and 2016 and Donald Trump we saw today.
CORNISH: Which is?
SELLERS: He's diminished. His capacity is diminished. Someone who is 78 years old, who's the oldest person who's running for office, president of the United States in the history of this country, you saw a diminished capacity individual running for president.
MCLAUGHLIN: Respectfully, people were saying that in 2016, that he had lost his mind, that he was too old. I just think this is the same playbook recycled from the lot, saying he's too old.
CORNISH: So, let me hit pause, because one of the things I've noticed, a lot of bobbing and weaving trying to figure out how to talk about Kamala Harris, how to talk about Tim Walz, not landing on anything in particular. You'll tell me if I'm wrong. But here's a piece of tape from him today talking about her basically just saying that she's dumb.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP) D. TRUMP: We have somebody that, in my opinion, is more incompetent. She couldn't pass her Bar exam.
She's not smart enough to do a news conference. And I'm sorry, we need smart people to lead this country.
In terms of intelligence, Hillary was far superior, Kamala, who, by the way, is worse than Biden. And she's actually not as smart.
No, I think she's actually not as smart as he is. I don't think he's very smart either, by the way.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
S.E. CUPP, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: You know, what was once a very disciplined Chris LaCivita machine is off kilter and they're sloppy right now. This was sloppy. It wasn't intentional and there are plenty of intentional things that they could do to talk about policy. But what's really important here, this might play to, you know, the MAGA base, although without the clap track, it sounded weirder, but what they need to do is get swing state voters. And swing state voters don't want to be told by a vice presidential candidate to be afraid of childless cat ladies. They want a person to come in and say, you've got a problem, I know what it is and I have a solution, here's what it is. And none of this, Kamala Harris isn't black, none of this is solving a problem that real voters in swing states have, and they're clamoring for solutions. That's why they're undecided.
CORNISH: Yes, but like people has had Trump tweets for a long time. Like tell me about this whole idea of like, what does it mean to be on message? What did you hear today?
DUBKE: Well, I think for Donald Trump, trying to get back into the conversation was the whole point of this, was the whole point of this press conference. You had, what was it, July 21st, when Biden stepped aside, August 6th, when Walz was nominated or named, selected as the as the vice presidential candidate. And then on the 19th, we're going to have the convention. You have set up beautifully for the Democrats in this honeymoon, this period of events that is happening all the way through the end of the Democratic National Convention. He had to engage and insert himself in some way.
Now, I appreciate the talking points of, he sounded diminished and he was off kilter and all of that, but what he did today and the reason we're starting with this at the top of the program is he was able to get back into the debate, which he hasn't had for the last two years.
SELLERS: Let me ask two questions.
DUBKE: Yes.
SELLERS: First, Donald Trump this week rolled out of bed and went to his lobby for Mar-a-Lago. Has he been on the campaign trail this week? That's the first question. And the second question to both of my good Republican friends, is there any world in which Donald Trump has given a speech, which was a larger audience than the March on Washington? And if you can answer that question as resoundingly yes, then we probably need to go to commercial break and take everybody's temperature.
And so my point is that today was more of Donald Trump just talking about things that are factually inaccurate, but yet he is not on the campaign trail. He's not engaging voters. And the juxtaposition is someone at the UAW in Detroit, Michigan, versus someone in their lobby spewing lies. And that can be, if we want to do that every day, we'll take it.
DUBKE: Tricia made an excellent point at the beginning of this and the fact that he took questions from the media. When is Vice President Harris going to take -- start taking questions? And two questions on the tarmac, on the way -- talking about a debate, is not taking questions from the media.
[22:10:04]
And that was the big thing that happened today.
CUPP: The one successful thing he managed to do was sort of trap her a little bit on this very thing. And, look, she's going to take questions. We're going to make sure of that. But, you know, there's been a bit of a honeymoon period. I think she's giving Tim Walz a moment. But he did make that contrast, I think, really clear. The rest of it was such a waste of time and a wasted opportunity to talk policy to voters who need it.
SELLERS: Let me just say, let me just also say this, like don't nobody care about us, about somebody taking questions.
CUPP: No, that is very true. I speak to swing state voters all the time, they have questions, they want answers.
SELLERS: No. Yes, they have questions, they want answers. But you know what doesn't have to happen? But you know what doesn't have to happen? Audie doesn't have to ask those questions.
CUPP: Yes, Audie does have to ask those questions.
SELLERS: Political does not --
CUPP: Because when fans ask them, Bakari, when friends ask them, when surrogates ask them, they're not getting the real answer. That's why Audie needs to ask them.
SELLERS: This is so in the beltway.
CUPP: No, it really isn't. I'm telling you, Bakari, I speak to 23 state voters every single day.
SELLERS: So, that you can get amazing handsome faces on CNN like me, that's the point.
CORNISH: Okay, that's definitely a point to pause while we do a fact- check. SELLERS: I do like that.
CORNISH: I may be a substitute teacher, but let's settle down, okay?
SELLERS: You need the audience with the dial right now.
CORNISH: One thing I want to say, and bring it to you, Tricia, is because you worked for Vivek Ramaswamy. I think he was very much an online candidate, right?
MCLAUGHLIN: Yes.
CORNISH: You had such -- and one of the things about --
MCLAUGHLIN: I can't -- I don't know.
CUPP: I don't think that's a part of the competition.
CORNISH: It is a competition, because the Harris-Walz campaign is now extremely online. And so while this is press conference was going on, their rapid response team was clipping every second out of it. And is there something to be said for there to be independent questioning of a candidate that can be used by anyone to have answers that he might not otherwise get in a more friendly environment?
SELLERS: Let me tell you what's not online, is when you pull up at a hangar and have 50,000 people. You know, it'll look like it like Donald Trump in 2016, but like Barack Obama in 2008. What's not online is when you show up and you have 20,000 people in Phoenix, Arizona. What's not online is when you're actually -- you look at polls now. You look at every national poll.
CORNISH: But people see the clips. These things live forever. Obviously, the NABJ interview is a good example, right?
SELLERS: What I'm just saying to you is that this campaign is not one that's just online.
CUPP: But, Bakari, I adore you. You know that. You know that. But you will lose, and you're not the first person to make this argument that she doesn't need to do this. It's very inside the beltway. This is for us. You lose credibility when you do that. Because if it were someone else, you would be demanding that they sit down for questions. And you know what? It'll make her a better candidate if she does it.
SELLERS: But that's --
MCLAUGHLIN: and why shouldn't she? She should answer these questions.
SELLERS: And she will.
MCLAUGHLIN: But why not now?
SELLERS: But why do you have to -- first of all, let me ask you this question, just a fundamental question. If Kamala answers no questions today and Donald Trump says that he had more people at a rally than Martin Luther King Jr., which one is better?
MCLAUGHLIN: I think that is like a complete misnomer.
CORNISH: Why? Because that's what he said today.
MCLAUGHLIN: Because it's a false choice.
SELLERS: Because he said it's --
CUPP: Neither are good.
MCLAUGHLIN: Exactly.
SELLERS: I wanted her to make the point though. Can you admit that neither are good? Are you going to say, neither are good?
MCLAUGHLIN: It's a misnomer.
SELLERS: So, can you admit today that Donald Trump lied about saying that?
MCLAUGHLIN: I think that the crowd discussion is all about optics and image. Donald Trump knows image matters. He'd say that to himself. The whole point of the conversation, in my opinion, is that he doesn't like that he's seeing the crowd size of Kamala Harris. That's fine. Let's move on from that. Let's move on. This is the least substantive race probably in American modern history. This is all about vibes and reality (ph).
CORNISH: Okay, that's a good point to end on. I want you guys to stick around as I try and fill out the rest of the hour with substance.
Next, a member of the Trump family joins our conversation to react to the news conference. Stay with us.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[22:15:00]
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
D. TRUMP: And I've spoken to the biggest crowds. Nobody's spoken to crowds bigger than me. If you look at Martin Luther King, when he did his speech, his great speech, and you look at ours, same real estate, same everything, same number of people, if not we had more.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
CORNISH: Donald Trump compares his crowd at the January 6th rally to the 1963 march on Washington. In case you need a reminder, this is what it looked like when Martin Luther King Jr. delivered his I Have a Dream speech. Nearly 250,000 people packed the National Mall to hear that speech, which became one of the most famous in U.S. history.
Now, for the January 6th rally, the House select committee investigating the insurrection that followed estimated Trump's crowd was approximately 53,000 people.
Here to talk more, Donald Trump's nephew, Fred Trump, he's joining our conversation because he's also the author of All in the Family, The Trumps, and How They Got This Way. Fred Trump, thank you for being with us.
FRED TRUMP II, AUTHOR, ALL IN THE FAMILY, THE TRUMPS AND HOW WE GOT THIS WAY: Thank you, Audie. Glad to be -- I wish I was with you guys. It sounds like you're having a lot of fun there.
CORNISH: Well, then, we're going to start with a fun question for you. What is the deal with the crowd size thing? Like why does this keep coming up?
F. TRUMP: He has to be the best. He has to have the biggest. I can just tell you one quick story, one you know very well. I was about three rows behind him at his inauguration in 2017.
[22:20:00]
And I can tell you the crowd size was not as big as he claimed it was.
CORNISH: Is there a sense as part of the like kind of Trump family ethos that you got to portray a certain image at all costs?
F. TRUMP: Yes, absolutely. My grandfather was a very domineering guy and he always had to portray himself as stoic and businesslike, which is why, unfortunately, when my father had alcoholism, he was the embarrassment in their eyes to the family, which is sad. But, yes, it is a very important thing to portray strength, even if it's fake strength.
SELLERS: Now, one of the things that I wanted to just ask you is about the courage it takes to speak out at this moment. There are a lot of people who are watching right now and they want to know why should we believe the words that are coming out of your mouth. I want to talk about the courage it takes to speak out at this moment. So, talk about just deep inside when you're writing these words, why write them now? And why speak out at this moment?
F. TRUMP: Well, what's different with my book than any other book that has been written about Donald is I was there during his formative years. He was the first person to put a golf club in my hand. I knew him during his school years. I knew him during his business career. And I knew him during his political career, including being in the White House.
The reason it took so long in some people's mind to write the book is that, as you may know, my wife Lisa and I have a young son who has complex disabilities. And during the 2015, '16 campaign, we had dead animals thrown on our lawn, reporters coming up to our house uninvited, and cars in our driveway that we didn't ask to be there. William has recently moved to a group home outside of our home.
So, we thought the time was right, A, for us to go with a platform to advocate on behalf of people with intellectual and developmental disabilities, but also, you know, the insurrection was a very devastating time for our country, and that really wanted me to tell the story of Donald in a very personal way.
MCLAUGHLIN: Fred, I had a question for you. We started off this segment talking about the crowd sizes and of course just over three weeks ago at a Trump rally, he was almost killed at his own rally. I was wondering it sounds like you were very close at one time with the Trump immediate family going to the inauguration. Have you spoken to your uncle or his immediate family, children, since the attempted assassination?
F. TRUMP: Well, I found out about the assassination attempt from my older son, Christopher. And I waited a few hours but reached out to Donald's assistant, who I've known for many years, just to let him know that Lisa and I and the kids were thinking about him. And we wished him the best and asked this young woman to pass that message along, which she said she would. I have not spoken to them personally.
CUPP: Fred, it's S.E. Cupp. First, I just want to thank you for all the work that you do for disabled kiddos. It means a lot to me. I was wondering -- you mentioned your grandfather. I was wondering if you could project a little bit. Do you think that your grandparents were proud of Donald Trump? Would they be proud of Donald Trump today?
F. TRUMP: My grandfather would be proud. I think my grandmother would be somewhat shocked and not very happy with his actions. I remember one time I was in Donald's office and Mike Tyson had called and said that he had done something terrible to Robin Givens and Donald would tell that story and that really upset my grandmother.
So, that's why an instance like that would make me think that she'd be very unhappy with the way he treats people and the way he projects himself.
CUPP: But why do you think that his dad would be proud?
F. TRUMP: He wanted Donald to succeed. He was his biggest cheerleader, if you will. And it was winning at all costs, and Donald certainly takes that to the nth degree.
CORNISH: Fred, I just want to ask you one more question before I let you go. We heard the Harris campaign kind of describe the press conference today as a public meltdown. You've known Donald Trump for a long time. What did you think you were looking at in how he tried to insert himself today?
F. TRUMP: Anybody who knows me knows I'm a political junkie. So, take the fact that he's my uncle out of the equation for a second.
[22:25:00]
Politically, I just don't know what he was trying to go after, much like last week when he was saying that Kamala Harris is not black, she was a -- I just don't get it. I don't know where he's going with it. He'll never admit that it was the wrong approach, but I watched most of it today and I was just baffled. CORNISH: Well, Fred Trump III, thank you so much for taking the time to speak with us, I appreciate you.
F. TRUMP: Thank you, Audie.
CORNISH: Next, we're going to take on another issue, abortion, because, apparently, Donald Trump says it isn't as big an issue on the campaign trail anymore. We're going to discuss.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[22:30:00]
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
D. TRUMP: I think that abortion has become much less of an issue. It's a very small -- I think it's actually going to be a very small issue. What I've done is I've done what every Democrat and every Republican wanted to have done, and we brought that issue back to the states, and now the states are voting on it.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
CORNISH: That was Donald Trump today downplaying how big of an issue abortion could be in the November election. He also suggested that he's open to revoking access to the abortion pill. I'm back now with my panel. I don't know how to talk about abortion being less of an issue. You're nodding.
MCLAUGHLIN: Yes. I mean, I think from a messaging perspective, especially from Democrats in the media, they are going to want to talk about abortion. And Republicans, it's a very vulnerable issue. I'm from Ohio. It's a deep red state. We just had a constitutional amendment, you know, in the fall, and that was --
CUPP: To enshrine abortion --
MCLAUGHLIN: Exactly, by 68 percent. So, this is a vulnerability for Republican states, as well. That being said, Donald Trump is right that in only five or six states, will there be abortion on the ballot at all. I think the most vulnerable probably is Arizona.
CORNISH: But he seemed to be arguing that, like, look, I sort of did my part, and now it's back to the states, which is what everyone wanted. I'm for exceptions and abortion, right? Like he was -- to me, it's continuing him moderating --
CUPP: It's out of my hands. He also said, I'm not going to answer this question about the Florida abortion bill. I'm not going to tell you that yet. He doesn't want to get dirty here. But it's too late. It is a huge issue.
It's not just in five states where it's on the ballot, although that's important. It's in neighboring states where they're going to now have to deal with an influx of people who are in states where it's banned. I mean, it really is impactful. That cuts both ways, though, because Tim Walz, if he ever sits down for an interview, will have to answer very tough questions about his state's abortion policies, which are -- whether you like them or not --outside of the mainstream. The majority of Americans want weak limitations on abortions. They also want legal immigration --abortion. But they want weak limitations in Minnesota. There are no weak limitations.
CORNISH: Mike, before I let --
CUPP: That is outside of the mainstream.
CORNISH: I want you to answer this thought. But before you do, I want to play one more piece of tape, because the thing about the abortion issue is Democrats have effectively expanded it beyond that procedure itself, right? People are talking about protecting conception, drugs --
CUPP: IVF.
CORNISH: Yeah, IVF,
CUPP: Right, right.
CORNISH: --et cetera. So, here is what he said when somebody asked him about rights to the abortion pill.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TRUMP: Sure, you could do things that will be -- would supplement, absolutely. And those things are pretty open and humane.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
CORNISH: Can he actually get away from this?
DUBKE: No, I don't think that he can. I mean, if you want to compare if the issue is going to be as salient in '24 as it was in '22, maybe you can make the argument he's right.
It's not going to be -- I think in '22, part of the reason the Democrats were able to be as successful as they were was because the motivation had moved from the pro-life side to the pro-choice side in terms of turning out for those elections.
Going back to the number of weeks, when you ask the American people that question, yes, you get different answers, but you get somewhere between, you know, 10, 15, you know, whatever the European policy is, 12 weeks and 15 weeks. But then when you -- where Republicans have failed --and I still don't understand why we can't message on this -- is that we call Democrats out for being the true radicals here because they don't want to put any restrictions.
We haven't been able to sell that message. And I don't know why. Glenn Youngkin tried it in Virginia. I'd love to hear it then because this really is -- SELLERS: Because that's fundamentally not true. So, what you have here --
DUBKE: Oh, I --
SELLERS: Well, I mean, you asked the question.
DUBKE: No, no, yeah, I will. I will.
SELLERS: So, what happens here is that you have Donald Trump --and let's just speak plain about it -- who put three justices on the Supreme Court who disregarded precedent and overturned Roe v. Wade. And so, you're never going to be able to wash your hands of that. And so, when you're talking about this -- and this is the fundamental problem, and I just want to speak --
CORNISH: Especially if you're claiming credit for it. Yeah, right.
SELLERS: Let's just be plain about it. Like, when was the last time you had your period, right?
CUPP: What?
SELLERS: I can't answer that question. You can't answer that question. Donald Trump can't answer that question.
CUPP: What are you talking about?
SELLERS: And what I'm saying is that there are too many people, there are too many men, particularly Donald Trump and others, who are getting involved in decisions of women. And so, when you have a restriction, like six weeks, for example --
CUPP: Right.
SELLERS: When you have a restriction of six weeks, you have people who want to say, oh, six weeks is fine, particularly in states like South Carolina, et cetera. You know what happens? We cannot make that decision, because that should be a decision that's made between a husband, a wife.
CUPP: But you're not answering his point. His point is that there is -- I've studied abortion statistics for 30 years. There is a -- there is a window in which the majority of this country has always been, and it's always been in favor of legal abortions, and it's always been in favor of restrictions.
[22:35:00]
Democrats, not all, but some Democrats are outside of this window and pushing things that are extreme, just as Republicans are outside.
SELLERS: But the overwhelming majority of Democrats do not want you to be able to have an abortion up until the time of birth. But I will tell you that --
CUPP: Tim Walz does, that's why it's Jermaine McCurry. He's got an answer to that.
SELLERS: But I will also tell you this, that when you look a Republican in the eye and you ask them, should you have an exception, like J.D. Vance, for example, or others, should you have an exception for rape, incest, or the life of the mother, then Republicans all of a sudden want to insert themselves into this conversation.
But you can't be for freedom and all of these other things when I'm simply telling you that that decision should be for, and women should have the right, and we should have the right --
CUPP: That's an argument.
CORNISH: Hold on.
CUPP: But there's a whole other argument that you're missing.
CORNISH: Well, hold on. I want to let you guys pause here, because I think the country's been having this particular fight since the 1970s, so it will play out a little bit more. What was interesting to me in this moment today is the Harris campaign rapid response immediately was clipping these kinds of answers to repeat, enter into the meme machine, right? So, can you talk to me about why they are so much better at this?
MCLAUGHLIN: I don't think that they're so much better at this. I mean, maybe I'm unconservative.
CORNISH: They're winning the internet game.
MCLAUGHLIN: I think that the media is pushing that out.
CORNISH: Do you think so? Have you been on TikTok? Because it's out of control.
MCLAUGHLIN: I'm not on TikTok. I'm not on TikTok.
CORNISH: That's where we are. No, no. But just like, it's turning into the meme election, and I'm wondering why.
MCLAUGHLIN: That's not good for America. And as we were talking about before, if you have a -- online election, virality doesn't actually translate on to votes.
SELLERS: But it's not --but that's not accurate, though. This is not an online election. This is about real things.
MCLAUGHLIN: It feels very online.
SELLERS: No, no, no.
MCLAUGHLIN: I don't think anybody who's voting in these swing states knows what virality is.
SELLERS: My wife and I literally had to go through IVF to have a child. So, that's not online. These issues are not online. And that's what I'm trying to tell people. These are household issues. And so, when Donald Trump goes in front of a press conference for an hour or two and talks about limiting access, he talks about making these decisions.
CORNISH: What I hear you saying, Bakari, is that there is an audience that is ready to receive this kind of rapid-fire messaging.
SELLERS: Unquestionably.
DUBKE: There is. But let's go back to the whole point of, one, I don't think that you answered my question because I meant it legitimately. I don't know what the message is for the Republican Party on abortion right now. Because we seem to be failing, and I thought you were going to give us some love there, some guidance there.
SELLERS: November 6th.
CORNISH: I don't think so.
DUBKE: November 6th, I'm there.
SELLERS: November 6th, I'll give you all the guidance you need.
DUBKE: Let's go to the online part of this. Because much to my wife's chagrin, I am on TikTok just every once in a while.
SELLERS: Why are you on TikTok? Tell us why.
DUBKE: Because I want the Chinese Communist Party to control my thoughts.
CORNISH: We'll post your handle at the end of the program.
DUBKE: Yeah, so, that's my one true confession here tonight. But one of the reasons why I think the media is saying we're on an online election is because it's very easy to take those short clips and throw them up on the screen.
But much the same as when I was in the White House and we were talking about Donald Trump's tweets, I would ask the average person, how did you hear about that tweet? Were you on Twitter? And they'd say, no. We saw it on CNN. We saw it on Fox. We saw it on MSNBC.
They saw it or read about the tweet. They didn't actually receive it in the format it was delivered. And I think we're doing the same thing here with Reels, with TikTok and others. The media loves this because it's real easy to throw that clip up there.
But it's not where the majority of Americans are getting their news. They're hearing about it from where they do get their news because we're elevating that level of discussion.
CORNISH: Well, this will come up again because most of the kind of rhetorical attacks get amplified, as you said, in this manner. So, I want you guys to stand by because next, we're going to be talking about Democrats who are pushing back against rhetorical attacks against Governor Tim Walz and his military service. We're going to have a special guest joining our fifth seat. That's next.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[22:43:27]
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
REP. JASON CROW (D-COLORADO): They have no options, but they try to do one of the worst things you can do in America. That is attack a veteran for their service. It's old. It's tired. And America is just not going to put up with it.
REP. JAKE AUCHINCLOSS (D-MASSACHUSETTS): If I were Donald Trump with five deferments from Vietnam as a favor to my father, I would be very cautious about opening the door to attacks on those who served honorably.
KAMALA HARRIS, VICE PRESIDENT OF THE STATES AND CURRENT PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE (D): Listen, I pray for anyone who has presented themselves to serve our country, and I think that we all should.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
CORNISH: Vice President Kamala Harris and other Democrats defending Tim Walz. This is as Republicans continue to attack his military record. Tonight, we're learning that this actually isn't the first time that Walz has had to defend his record.
In 2006, during his first run for Congress, he faced similar accusations, which at that time he called slander. I'm back with my panel, along with another guest, Iraq War veteran and CEO of Iraq and Afghanistan Veterans of America, Alison Jaslow. First of all, thank you for your service. You're a former Army captain, and I believe earned a Bronze Star medal. So, thank you for your service.
ALLISON JASLOW, CEO, IRAQ AND AFGHANISTAN VETERANS OF AMERICA: Of course.
CORNISH: I want to ask you how you hear these attacks when they happen, not just on Walz, but in general in politics, when people start to look through the military resume and say, is that good enough?
JASLOW: Well, I think it first matters who's doing the scrutinizing. I think that there are many people, you know, we're living in an age where less than one percent of the American population is serving, and some people, political operatives, are scrutinizing individual service, and sometimes don't even know what to scrutinize about that service.
[22:45:00]
At the same rate, I also think that it is important if you're going to step into the arena, like accurately represent your service. You know, you mentioned that I got a Bronze Star. I'm the first to say that I got a Bronze Star for service. There's a Bronze Star for service, and there's a Bronze Star for valor.
I don't want people thinking that I jumped on a grenade to get a Bronze Star for my 15 months that I spent in Iraq. And I think it's very important that, you know, with integrity, you step into the arena.
CORNISH: I want you to underscore that a little, and I'm going to bring in everyone else. With this idea of stolen valor, in particular with Walz, people are criticizing him for talking about carrying a weapon, for example, in combat. Can you talk about the how and why of stolen valor, meaning is this something that is particularly sensitive in the veterans' community?
JASLOW: Well, when I think you're talking about Governor Walz, first of all, as a stolen valor case, as far as I can tell, any of the criticism about his service have nothing to do with him claiming that he got an award that he didn't get. So, like, let's clarify that.
CORNISH: Yeah, I'm hearing the term a lot online, and I'm like, does this apply here, or what are we talking about?
JASLOW: But, you know, valor, service, heroism is not just a sensitive issue, but I tell people who I know a lot that, like, nobody who is truly a hero ever wanted to be. The people who got the Medal of Honor would do anything they could to give that medal back and have their bodies back or not experience what they had to do on that day.
And so, I think, you know, for those of us in the military community who really experienced combat under fire, or even, you know, I used to work for former Senator Jim Webb. He got a Navy Cross, and if you read his Navy Cross citation, like, I would not misrepresent my service understanding those that have sacrificed in ways that I haven't.
And I think that's where it becomes very personal. I mean, you have a lot of people who've dealt with sacrifice and real loss, you know. I've been lucky to come home, but not everybody comes home, you know.
And so, I think that there are -- there's a lot of complexity to wartime service. And I think that's just, I think part of what you're seeing here with this debate, too, is just some of that passion coming out, you know.
CUPP: I think, though, that what it risks doing, whether you're saying Walz wasn't in a war or J.D. Vance was in press, you're diminishing everyone's service. And I work with a lot of veterans and some are nurses and technicians and mechanics.
And does their service count less because they're not in combat? Do we value them less? I think this conversation has a way of insulting them all and making some veterans more important than others.
CORNISH: I want to add a little context here, because Trump's senior adviser, obviously Chris LaCivita, he was also a consultant for the group Swift Boat Veterans for the Truth, which is a group that helped sink the bid for John Kerry and kind of going after his service.
What's obviously a little different, I think, that John Kerry was so well-known for his service in Vietnam and how he spoke out, et cetera, and his activism. But Mike, help me understand about this page of the playbook coming back.
DUBKE: I think there's a difference here, and really kind of harkening back to what you were saying, in terms of how one describes their service and how one needs to be careful when they are in the public arena, whether or not they embellish it.
And I've done some work with one of the United States senators who served in the Marines, and he was always incredibly careful with whatever we did on the campaign to make sure that we, in no way, you know, took photographs of when he was in Afghanistan or, you know, embellished his actions.
CORNISH: Yeah.
DUBKE: And so, when you're in that public arena, you need to be extra careful. So, I guess the one place where I'd add to this is, you know, to S.E.'s point, we've got to make sure that we're not diminishing anyone's service, whether they were, you know, a mechanic or they were on the front line.
But when you're in the public realm and you're representing something that the service in the United States military represents, when you're running for higher office, you need to be extra careful. And in this case, I think you know, they're questioning whether or not Tim Walz was careful.
CORNISH: I'll jump in here, because especially they vetted him, right? They had to have known this is something that would come out.
SELLERS: I don't think I've ever been -- I've been with CNN since 2015, and I've never felt more like ill-equipped to have this conversation, particularly sitting next to you. And so, let me just start by saying --
CORNISH: This is crazy, because you brought up menstruation earlier, so --
SELLERS: I was talking to Mike about it.
CORNISH: This is blowing my mind right now.
SELLERS: I was having a conversation with Mike about it, but here we are. But, you know, to that same point, I think that, you know, as we go through this, S.E. brings up a good point, and you bring it up, as well, in the first part about just examining the field.
[22:50:07]
And you should want people who have that level of service, who have that level of just giving themselves to country.
CORNISH: But why would they do that if all the political consultants are going to be like --
SELLERS: I know, and that is where we've kind of gotten a little off kilter, because Swift Boat was a thing. I don't think Tim Walz is where you are with Swift Boat. But even in the same point, I would be remissed if I was saying that the arguments that Tim Walz is fielding have a bit of irony in it, because of Donald Trump's legacy when it comes to the military.
And Donald Trump bad-mouthing people like John McCain, or him simply saying that he doesn't appreciate those individuals who got captured, or we know why he didn't go to Vietnam, and him evading that service.
And so, I think when you look at the totality of it, I appreciate Governor Walz for being in the military for 20 years, and I don't know the details. right? And I'm not someone, as someone who did not serve, and who recognizes that those people who do serve are a greater level of hero than I could ever be.
I think that there are a lot of people who just wonder where this fits, because I want more people who actually served in the military to run for office, and be in the United States Congress, and run for the White House. I just think that makes for a more perfect union.
CORNISH: Allison, I wanted you to have the last word, because you worked with Walz to help pass, right, the portion of the post-911 G.I. Bill, which J.D. Vance actually took advantage of.
JASLOW: Yes. Our organization did work hand-in-hand with then- Congressman Walz, when a number of other members of Congress passed the post-911 G.I. Bill. You know, I think more, like, more than individuals here, you touched on this a little bit before, I think the shame in all of this is that we should be celebrating that there's not just one, but two post-911 generation veterans on the major party presidential tickets right now.
And they're both enlisted soldiers, which makes them more representative of the average veteran than even people like myself. But, you know, I feel like if there's an ancillary benefit that our community is also getting a little more attention with all of this, then so be it as well.
Because I think, honestly, we're not having enough dialogue these days about those who are serving in sacrifice, what that looks like, what price they're paying, and if this gets the American people to focus in a little more on it, then, like, I'm all for it.
SELLERS: And what happens when they come home.
CORNISH: Exactly. Allison, thank you so much for being here.
JASLOW: Of course, thank you for having me.
CORNISH: All right, next, our panel is going to give us their nightcaps. Stay with us.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK) [22:57:20]
CORNISH: We're back. It's time for the nightcap. You each have 30 seconds to do a shot. Now, that's not what it says. You each have 30 seconds to say your piece. Trisha, you're up first.
MCLAUGHLIN: All right, I think we need to completely restructure the vice-presidential debates. The first three-fourths of it is going to be purely policy and track record for governance or legislation. Okay?
CORNISH: Sounds good.
MCLAUGHLIN: That's it. The second, the last fourth is all blowout. It's "bring your sickest burns". You bring your -- it's like a roast. Because if you and that first --
CORNISH: You said "sickest burns" is the most Vivek Ramaswamy thing you have said in this whole hour.
MCLAUGHLIN: But that's when you can say, bring up the couch conspiracy. That's when you can call each other winners.
CORNISH: Oh, no. Please don't do that.
MCLAUGHLIN: That's when you do whatever you want. That first part, that three-quarters, you cannot make any personal attacks or that takes your time away from the last four.
CORNISH: Interesting. Okay, corralling the sick burns. Bakari, it's up to you.
SELLERS: No, I thought today at the UAW, when Kamala Harris was talking about enveloping herself and what it meant to be American, and she was talking about how proud she was and how we should all get along and how it's about the collective, I thought today was a winning message.
Governor Wes Moore was somebody who went out there and said that Kamala Harris needs to speak more about how proud she is to be a part of this country, talk about the collective, talk about things we should do. And today, she went out in front of the UAW and did it.
David Axelrod has said many times before that she has to envelop herself in her story. Donald Trump may not know her identity, but her identity is being someone who is a proud daughter of a Jamaican parent, Jamaican immigrant, a proud daughter of a South Asian mom. And you know what that means? That is the American story.
CORNISH: Okay.
SELLERS: And she is very grateful.
CORNISH: It's a nightcap. Yeah, yeah.
SELLERS: Was that 30 seconds?
UNKNOWN: It was. It was.
DUBKE: She is going to get a chance to tell that story, and I'm going to tell you when she's going to tell that story.
CORNISH: Is this your nightcap?
DUBKE: This is my nightcap. She is going to tell that story on August 25th. That'll be the day, Sunday, after the convention, on "60 Minutes". It's going to be her first interview.
CORNISH: You know this.
DUBKE: Yeah, I know this. This is my hot take. This is my hot take.
CUPP: But what does that mean?
CORNISH: But is it real?
SELLERS: No. Can you stop inter --
DUBKE: But when it happens --
SELLERS: I was like, stop inter --
DUBKE: But when it happens, you will play this tape back.
CORNISH: Okay. We will. We will.
MCLAUGHLIN: Will Shultz sit next to her? Or Walz.
SELLERS: I was like, who is Schultz?
DUBKE: I'm confused.
CORNISH: Oh my God.
DUBKE: Don't say it was Sergeant Schultz, because that would be the wrong Sergeant. Master Sergeant.
CORNISH: S.E., it's time for you.
CUPP: Something very different. Someone named Lil Pump. It's a rapper.
CORNISH: Yeah.
CUPP: We've got our first defection, says he's leaving the United States if Kamala Harris wins.
[23:00:03]
You know, usually it's the liberals saying that if so and so, Republicans -- they're going to leave. They never do, they never do. But she's already having an impact.
SELLERS: I will buy Little Pump a ticket. CORNISH: I also like that you're into SoundCloud rappers. That's a
twist. I didn't expect that.
SELLERS: I'm putting them on Spirit. I'm putting Little Pump on Spirit.
CUPP: It's getting 2018, but I'm here for it.
SELLERS: Name a Little Pump song. Anybody on the table.
CORNISH: And this is where we become a meme.
CUPP: It's Lil. It is Lil.
SELLERS: Bag of Nation?
MCLAUGHLIN: Bag of Nation.
CORNISH: Yeah. Okay, everyone, thank you so much for being here. Thank you for watching "News Night". "Laura Coates Live" starts right now.
CUPP: Someone's younger than us.
