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CNN NewsNight with Abby Phillip
Trump Team Scrambles to Limit Fallout from Vile Rally; Trump's Closing Message, Crude, Racist, Misogynistic Rhetoric; Trump's Border Guru Says U.S. Citizen Kids Can be Deported. Jeff Bezos Speaks Out About A Last-Minute Decision By "The Washington Post" To Skip A Presidential Endorsement; Leonardo DiCaprio Tries To Incept Voters To Back Kamala Harris; Officials Look For A Suspect Vehicle In A Pair Of Fires In Ballot Boxes In The Northwest. Aired 10-11p ET
Aired October 28, 2024 - 22:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
[22:00:00]
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
ABBY PHILLIP, CNN ANCHOR (voice over): Tonight, garbage from the Madison Square Garden stage.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: A floating island of garbage in the middle of the ocean right now. I think it's called Puerto Rico.
PHILLIP: MAGA mainlines misogyny, xenophobia, racism at a glitzy spectacle riddled with dark rhetoric.
Plus, a problem of belief, Jeff Bezos explains why and when his paper decided to get out of the endorsement business and how his decision could buy back trust from the public.
And don't look up. Leonardo DiCaprio signs on to support Harris while accusing Trump of denying science. The Science Guy weighs in.
Live at the Table, Scott Taylor, Mehdi Hasan, Ryan Girdusky and Ashley Allison.
With eight days to go, Americans with different perspectives aren't talking to each other, but here they do.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
PHILLIP (on camera): Good evening. I'm Abby Phillip in New York.
Let's get right to what America is talking about, indecent exposure. Tonight, Donald Trump's campaign is mad. They're worried that what was supposed to go down as a triumphant moment in his hometown, here in New York, at a mecco (ph) for star power, will now end up hurting his campaign. Sources tell CNN that Trump and his inner circle, they are concerned that voters didn't hear a closing message.
You've probably seen the headlines about this comic who made the joke about Puerto Rico, among other things. But it wasn't just this one comic. As many people took that stage, they all were saying vile, reprehensible, sexist, racist things. Just listen.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: She is the devil, whoever screamed that out. She is the anti-Christ.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: She's a fake, a fraud, she's a pretender. Her and her pimp handlers will destroy our country.
DONALD TRUMP (R), FORMER U.S. PRESIDENT, 2024 PRESIDENTIAL NOMINEE: Everyone knows she is a very low I.Q. individual.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: She's just so impressive as the first Samoan, Malaysian low I.Q. former California prosecutor ever to be elected president.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: When I hear Kamala speak, it sounds -- yes, it sounds like a script from Hollywood with a really, really bad actress.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: This country was built on hard work, added value, and talent, not on equal outcome, not on DEI. This country was built on hard work.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: These Latinos, they love making babies.
There's no pulling out. They don't do that. They come inside, just like they did to our country.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The (BLEEP) illegals, they get whatever they want, don't they?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: There's literally a floating island of garbage in the middle of the ocean right now, yes. I think it's called Puerto Rico.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: America is for Americans and Americans only.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Cool black guy with a thing on his head, what the hell is that, a lampshade?
We had a Halloween party last night, we had fun, we carved watermelons together.
When it comes to Israel and Palestine, we're all thinking the same thing, settle your stuff already, best out of three, rock, paper, scissors. You know the Palestinians are going to throw rock every time. It feels to know the Jews have a hard time throwing that paper.
RUDY GIULIANI, FORMER TRUMP ATTORNEY: The Palestinians are taught to kill us at two years old.
And Harris wants to bring them to you. They may have good people, I'm sorry, I don't take a risk with people that are taught to kill Americans at two. UNIDENTIFIED MALE: She is some sick bastard, that Hillary Clinton, huh? What a sick son of a bitch. The whole (BLEEP), a bunch of degenerates, low lives, jewel haters.
SEN. J.D. VANCE (R-OH), VICE PRESIDENTIAL NOMINEE: They tried to put him in federal prison, and when that didn't work, they even tried to kill him.
GIULIANI: They tried everything else, and now they're trying to kill him.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: They even tried to take his life with not one, but two assassination attempts.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
[22:05:04]
PHILLIP: That was a lot.
Joining us in our fifth seat is journalist Linda Lopez. Linda, I'll start with you. I mean, just to be clear for the people who want to say that this is just about people not taking a bad joke, I mean, that was two and a half minutes almost of really vile stuff coming from a presidential candidate almost a week before an election.
LINDA LOPEZ, ANCHOR AND REPORTER, 1010 WINS NY: You know, it's one of the things that we can say right away is that this is nothing new, right? We've all seen the Trump rallies in the past. We know the rhetoric that's been coming out of Trump and the Trump campaign. There's a lot of this that is not new. But I really noticed something last night that one thing did feel new and it was that after the comments about Puerto Rico being a floating island of garbage, about Latinos and how crude and vile those comments got, the backlash that seemed to come almost immediately within the community, it felt instantaneous and it felt like everybody wanted to make sure they were sharing these videos and sharing these comments and making sure that everyone in their circles knew that this was happening in real time and that it was something they couldn't even process for the level of how crude and vile it was.
And so I feel like that almost marked something different that I haven't seen so far in this campaign.
PHILLIP: Yes. I mean, it's one thing to insult -- I mean, he insults a lot of people, but Puerto Ricans can vote and they live in swing states. I mean, when you look at where they live, almost 500,000 of them are in Pennsylvania. You know, you got 50,000 in Arizona, 1.23 million in Florida, Georgia, 125,000. I mean, this was an unforced error, but that's actually, I think, giving a little bit too much credit for what this was. These were a parade of people feeling absolutely no repercussions for going there. And I don't know, I mean, is that acceptable to you? Can you live with that?
FMR. REP. SCOTT TAYLOR (R-VA): Well, let me first say I just flew in from Puerto Rico today, which is a beautiful island. Obviously, I love that we have, my family has a place there. We're there all the time. I don't like his joke. I think it fell flat. I think it was the wrong venue to say that, of course.
As you said, there was backlash. You saw Jennifer Gonzalez, a good friend of mine, I served in Congress who I think will be the next governor of Puerto Rico, came out immediately and said something. President Trump's campaign came out and said, we don't share the same sentiment here at all with the comedian.
So, that said, you --
PHILLIP: Trump himself has not said any such thing.
TAYLOR: His campaign put the statement out. He's going to be -- you'll see him many times and I'm sure he will say something. I have no doubt he'll say something about it.
PHILLIP: You said the word, since.
TAYLOR: I'm just saying he doesn't show the sentiment. He's been very -- they've been clear. His campaign has been clear about that. I think just like I don't believe that the vice president shares the same sentiment that Mexicans are thieves, what the comedian said the other day at Walz's rally. I don't think that. He's a comedian.
So, I do think it was a very bad joke. I think it was insulting.
PHILLIP: What about all the rest of it?
TAYLOR: What about all the rest of it?
PHILLIP: Are you okay with all of that?
TAYLOR: Listen, I think emotions are very high. We're eight days out from the election, right? No question about it. I don't think either side is innocent of inflammatory rhetoric, for sure. I mean, look what, look what's happened. I don't think the president could have expected not to do this massive rally, which quite frankly, was historic, came out there and the media is just, oh, you know, he's a Nazi, it's Hitler and all this crazy stuff that they were saying.
So, I think in many respects, that rhetoric is much, much worse than what you just played there.
PHILLIP: Just to be clear, Hitler has entered the conversation because his chief of staff said that Trump, not the media, but Trump was the one who brought up Hitler.
RYAN GIRDUSKY, FOUNDER, 1776 PROJECT PAC: And five people who were there who said it didn't.
(CROSSTALKS)
PHILLIP: You're mixing, you're mixing anecdotes. That's not what happened. ASHLEY ALLISON, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: Actually, Hitler entered the conversation because his running mate actually compared him to Hitler. That's when it actually entered the conversation years ago.
No, that's how we brought Hitler into this conversation, because the person that Donald Trump pick to be his running mate compared to him to Hitler. And then he changed his mind. Fine, change your mind. But then somebody else verified.
You know, take comedians for where they were bad choice, disgusting language. I would never buy a ticket to his show, but do it on a comedy stage. Not the president of the United States rally. And if you do it on the stage of a rally and the president, the responsibility of the person who wants to be the leader of the free world is to come out like John McCain did when somebody wanted to call Obama, what, a derogatory name said no, because that's what leaders do. But you know what? Nobody did that after he did it. People came out and they pout on and they pout on and they pout on and they pout on.
But I'm not surprised, and I'm glad that the backlash actually came because some people -- I was in Philly all day today. And believe it or not, even though Philly is in tomorrow's last day to vote early in Philly, so vote today, Philly, vote tomorrow, today, or on November 5th, but if nobody -- if you haven't been paying attention, I'm glad you start to pay attention now and see these people for who they are and what they think of you, what they think of black people, what they think of Jewish people, what they think of women, because they said it out of their mouth.
[22:10:06]
GIRDUSKY: Okay, that's not true at all. The fact is that they --
PHILLIP: I mean, but hold on, but they did say -- look, we played the clips, Ryan.
GIRDUSKY: Okay. But the media did not just say that Trump was Hitler. The media was saying that everyone who attended was Hitler.
PHILLIP: No, they didn't.
GIRDUSKY: Yes, they did. Yes, they did. Yes, they did over and over.
PHILLIP: Excuse me, Ryan.
GIRDUSKY: They called them -- anyone who attends are Nazis.
PHILLIP: Hang on just one second, one second, okay, because it's the hyperbole that's getting me. You said the media called everyone who attended that rally Hitler?
GIRDUSKY: Yes, they did. Yes, they did.
PHILLIP: Okay. So, when we're off the show --
GIRDUSKY: They said, if you attend that rally, you are a fascist. That is what they said.
ALLISON: Well, let's talk about this table right here.
GIRDUSKY: I don't know what everyone said yesterday. I wasn't on your show.
ALLISON: I didn't say anything.
GIRDUSKY: Okay. I just watched you.
PHILLIP: Ryan, that did not happen.
GIRDUSKY: Yes, it did. Yes, it did. Abby Phillip, it 100 percent happened.
MEHDI HASAN, EDITOR-IN-CHIEF AND CEO, ZETEO: I mean, I'm glad you played that clip. Because all day long, the Trump campaign have been saying, it's a comedian, it's a comedian, it's a comedian. It wasn't just a comedian. Park the comedian and what he said, and you still have Rudy Giuliani, you still have his childhood friend, you still have his donor saying the pimp handlers. Just one of those people, ten years ago would have ended a Republican campaign. John McCain, Mitt Romney wouldn't have survived one of those people, right? And these people -- there's so many of them. It's classic flooding the zone, Steve Bannon style. We can't even talk about all of them because there's just too many of them to get through.
In fact, you should give a raise to the producer who had to do that super cut, that they had to sit through all of that. You didn't even get through all the clips. There was still Tucker Carlson doing replacement. Don Jr. did replacement. And then Trump himself turned up and talked about invading and occupying our country, which is the language of the far right. He talked about enemy of the people, which is Joseph Goebbels. He talked about the enemy within, which is literally Hitler. I mean, these are the -- my problem is, I get it, which nobody wants to be called Nazis. It's very inflammatory. But if you don't want to be called Nazis, stop doing --
GIRDUSKY: You're called an anti-Semite more than anyone in this table. And people --
HASAN: Yes, by you?
GIRDUSKY: No, by me, I never called you an anti-Semite. I mean, I'm not saying --
HASAN: I'm a supporter of the Palestinians. I'm used to it.
GIRDUSKY: Yes. Well, I'm hope your beeper doesn't go off. The thing is is that --
HASAN: Did you just say I should die?
ALLISON: Oh, wow. You should not --
GIRDUSKY: No, I said -- HASAN: Did you just say I should be killed?
GIRDUSKY: No.
(CROSSTALKS)
HASAN: You just said I should get killed on live T.V.
PHILLIP: Guys, let me just stop you there.
HASAN: You said you hope my beeper shouldn't go off --
(CROSSTALKS)
HASAN: Hamas. I said Palestinians.
GIRDUSKY: Are you?
HASAN: Am I what?
ALLISON: Palestinians are not --
HASAN: Are you a racist, violent person inciting violence against me?
PHILLIP: Ryan, that is completely out of pocket.
HASAN: (INAUDIBLE) CNN, let's have first bloc, say the Muslim guy should be blown up on T.V.
GIRDUSKY: I apologize.
PHILLIP: Don't say then I apologize. You literally --
GIRDUSKY: I thought he said, Hamas. I apologize.
HASAN: You didn't think I said Hamas. I said I'm in support of Palestinian rights. What's funny is Rudy Giuliani said this yesterday, so you're a great guest to be here to defend Rudy Giuliani's racism.
PHILLIP: Give me one second.
ALLISON: And so at this point.
HASAN: This is what we're in now. This is America in 2024. Forget the racism. I should die.
GIRDUSKY: I didn't say that you should die.
HASAN: What does beeper mean? Don't give me a --
GIRDUSKY: I did not say you should die.
HASAN: Why did you say my beeper goes off? What did you mean by the beeper? What did you mean by the beeper? You said, I hope your beeper doesn't go off. At least have the guts to support your racist comment.
ALLISON: I'm so sorry. This is why yesterday's rally was disgusting.
HASAN: Don't call us Nazis, but I'm going to threaten the brown guys that terrorism killed him.
ALLISON: Because I didn't ever say Donald Trump was Hitler, but do you know who sat on a stood on a stage yesterday and said I want to come to the Nazi rally? I don't have to make up words and call you something. You're saying it for yourself. And what you just said right here, apologize, but I will tell you I don't accept that apology, and you didn't even say it to me.
GIRDUSKY: But that's fine. I didn't say it to you.
ALLISON: That was disgusting. But I can be offended when you don't even say it to me. I'm not Puerto Rican, but I was offended by what he said yesterday. And I'm offended that the former president and potentially future president would allow it and go for 12 hours and not say, I don't care, because you know what, when Kamala Harris put out statements about switching up opinions. It wasn't good enough for Republicans.
TAYLOR: Why are you looking at me?
ALLISON: Because you said it.
TAYLOR: Why don't you take this back a little bit and let take the show back.
PHILLIP: You know what? Listen --
TAYLOR: You're kind of monopolizing her show.
PHILLIP: No, hold on one second.
TAYLOR: Because I'm surprised you wouldn't even say --
PHILLIP: Listen, we have a lot of -- hang on a second. We have a lot of heated conversations on this show. That is true. But one of the things that I do not appreciate is when we cross the line, okay? I don't appreciate that.
GIRDUSKY: I apologize.
PHILLIP: And I appreciate the apology, but I don't want a conditional apology for saying something that is completely -- it is not civil in this --
GIRDUSKY: I misheard what he said. I thought he said Hamas.
PHILLIP: There are lines here.
HASAN: Yes, I went on CNN and said I support Hamas. What kind of idiots do you take us for?
PHILLIP: We got to stop this stuff.
HASAN: That's a ridiculous thing to say.
PHILLIP: We have to stop this stuff, okay? We're going to go to the break now because I don't think anybody was served by what just happened. But let this be a reminder that there is a too far. There's a too far in our politics and there's a too far at this table, okay? Let's not let that happen again.
[22:15:00]
Everyone stick around for us. Coming up next, it is an undercover story, but Donald Trump's border guru says U.S. citizens would be deported if he wins.
Plus, Trump and House speaker, Mike Johnson, they are hinting at a mysterious secret move with the House Republicans after the election. We're going to discuss that as well.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
PHILLIP: We're back here, and before we get started, I want to just address what happened in the last segment. First, I want to apologize to Mehdi Hasan for what was said at this table. It was completely unacceptable. When we get this discussion started, you'll see that Ryan is not at the table. There is a line that was crossed there, and it's not acceptable to me.
[22:20:02]
It's not acceptable to us at this network. We want discussion. We want people who disagree with each other to talk to each other. But when you cross the line of a complete lack of civility, that is not going to happen here on this show.
It's a heated time. We're in the middle of a political season. We are eight days from a presidential election. But we can have conversations about what is happening in this country without resorting to the lowest of the lowest kind of discourse.
I want to address that. And I want to apologize to the viewers at home because we want to be able to hear each other, we want to be able to talk to each other, and we plan to do that in this next segment.
So, now, let's begin. It is sometimes hard to translate the words of Donald Trump into tangible policy. But I want you to listen to one former Trump official, someone who is in line, by the way, to be a second in a second Trump cabinet. And he's going to explain what that policy is for us.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Is there a way to carry out mass deportation without separating families?
THOMAS HOMAN, FORMER DIRECTOR, ICE: Of course there is. Families can be deported together.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Why should a child who is an American citizen have to pack up and move to a country that they don't know?
HOMAN: Their parent actually entered the country illegally, had a child knowing he was in the country illegally, so he created that crisis.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PHILLIP: Linda, I want to come to you on this, because, you know, there's so much talk about Project 2025, and is it real or is it not real? Here is Tom Homan. He's someone that is widely expected to be in charge of immigration policy in a Trump administration. And what he is saying is that he will deport American citizen children. That's some meat on the bones that I had not heard before.
LOPEZ: Yes. And I think we'd do well to look back to 2020 and know that voters are listening. In 2020, after a Trump administration that had -- you know, had to deal with the rhetoric of caging children, of separating families, of the immigration policy that went on for four years, that voters decided they did not want more of, and they wanted a change, and they wanted to vote differently in 2020, to see that this is something that would resurface in that way is beyond surprising.
ALLISON: I mean, not to take it back to the rally, but I think the reason why if you have someone in line to be in his cabinet and saying he would deport American citizens, you know, Friday, Donald Trump said something about Jack Smith, who is the special counsel on his case that is working for Department of Justice right now, that if he wins, he would deport him. Puerto Ricans are Americans, in case folks didn't realize that. They're our territory. And when people are -- when they call the island trash, like this is why, I guess, or yesterday night wasn't surprising, this is why we are ringing the alarm bell. This is why Kamala Harris will be on the ellipse tomorrow, giving us a speech to draw the contrast.
Now, I just want to say, I know that there are a lot of issues on the ballot this time, as well as a lot of candidates. I think that democracy is on. I think abortion is on. I think the economy is on. I think immigration is on. I think international affairs is on. But I also think character is on. And I think the last 24 hours, some people who are starting to pay attention and some Americans who really want our country to turn a page are going to go into that voting booth and never tell people what to do, but on November 5th, we'll know what they did and say goodbye to Donald.
PHILLIP: The message is about extremism fundamentally, right, that Trump I think has succeeded largely in trying to make people only remember the good parts of the four years that he was president and forget about all the rest of the chaos. The Harris campaign, on the other hand, their job over the next week or so is to do quite the opposite. And just to say, it is extreme, the rhetoric at Madison Square Garden, the immigration plan. It's not even just about whether you want tougher immigration policy, but they want people to believe and to see extremism from top to bottom in Trump. And it seems like Trump is helping them in a lot of ways. TAYLOR: Well, I think there's two parts that we can unpack real fast of what you just said. I mean, I don't think the vice president's job is to show extremism. I think that's actually failing. I think them just saying Trump's bad, Trump's bad, is a failing narrative, quite frankly, to close on. I think her job, of course, is to show that there were good things that she was part of and the bad things in the last three or four years, she wasn't part of. I think that's her job, which is a very difficult needle to thread, in my opinion.
That said, you know, I listened to him speak, and he's a very -- I've done hearings with him before. He's very blunt in the way he speaks. I didn't hear exactly what you guys heard, which is not surprising to you, when he said, I think he was trying to find a way not to separate families.
[22:25:08]
And he was saying -- let me finish what I'm saying, because --
PHILLIP: Well, I don't want you to give your interpretive like response to what he said.
TAYLOR: Well, that's exactly what you just heard from them, their interpretive response.
PHILLIP: I just want to --
TAYLOR: Do you not want to hear my interpretive response?
PHILLIP: Do you want me to play what he said again?
TAYLOR: No, I heard what he said. But what he said was, she asked him specifically, how will you keep families together if you're going to deport people who are here illegally, which is a problem, right? And he said we can deport them together. Children that are American citizens with their parents, would you rather him deport the parent and not the kids? No, absolutely not.
ALLISON: Is it deportation if they're an American citizen, or is that like political exile, or is that like just removing American citizens?
TAYLOR: If the children stay here, where would you want them to stay?
PHILLIP: So, I'm not understanding what you're trying to say.
ALLISON: So, then that means you're separating the family?
TAYLOR: No, what I'm saying to you, what I'm saying to you is, I believe that you guys are absolutely wrong on immigration. I think this is a massive issue. I think that Americans overwhelmingly --
PHILLIP: I don't think anybody's not saying that it's a massive issue. I think the question is --
TAYLOR: But you're attacking him -- so he's trying to give you a good way of dealing with this issue that doesn't separate families, which is something that you discussed, which I was in Congress when this was happening. It was a real issue, big issue and people were pissed off and my district and everything like that, no question about it. So, if there are illegal immigrants here who are here illegally, who should be deported because they're here illegally, listen, my, my wife is a legal immigrant, went through the system, spent the time, spent the money, did what she's supposed to do. So, there are people who are here illegally that probably have to be deported. So, how do you keep their families together then? You know, how do you do it? So I think that --
PHILLIP: So, you're saying -- so just to be clear. So, you are saying that it's, in your view, perfectly acceptable for the policy response to that to be -- to -- in addition to the undocumented parent, you are deporting the U.S. citizen children as well? I'm using the term, deporting.
TAYLOR: So, when I listened to him, I think he was giving an answer as an option. I don't know if that's going to be the policy. I don't know if that's going to be an option.
PHILLIP: But you would be fine with that?
TAYLOR: But that's the way I interpreted, he did. I know you interpreted it differently, but that's the way that I interpreted his answer.
ALLISON: I interpreted it the exact same way. I think that that's a problem that you would ask American citizens --
TAYLOR: So, what would you do?
LOPEZ: I think I interpreted it a little different way, which was that it was I don't know that it's policy that's being taken seriously when he's speaking about it. I honestly think that it's more rhetoric that looks like it's coming out as opposed to what an actual policy position would be. If you are -- I imagine in the Trump administration and actually looking to execute policies, I think that while the campaign is going on and while they know that immigration is something that seems to really resonate with their base, that they can --
TAYLOR: Not just their base.
LOPEZ: That really can resonate.
TAYLOR: 70 percent of Americans.
LOPEZ: That really can resonate, that they feel that there's a certain kind of rhetoric that can get them over the finish line, and that it leads to unthought out policy.
PHILLIP: I want to -- just one point that Scott did make that, that is in the air right now, I mean, the Times is reporting that there's a super PAC, a Kamala Harris super PAC that says sort of like talking about the fascism and the extremism doesn't work by itself and that basically what works better when they test the messages is Harris talking about her plans. So, they were trying to warn the campaign. This isn't working. There's another story in the Times that says the campaign says it is working. I mean, who do you believe?
ALLISON: I've always said. It's a yes and. I always think I fundamentally believe we cannot let something like yesterday happen and go unaddressed. I just -- I think that's dangerous. You know what I mean? I think that we can't let the hypocrisy happen, but I don't think that's sufficient. You know, you have to have -- it's a comprehensive approach. You have to talk about the contrast and then you have to talk about what they're doing.
I'll say I've heard from the campaign they didn't actually want the negative to be the closing argument, but it kind of is like being drawn in because I would be disappointed in the vice president if she didn't call out what happened yesterday. You just -- I mean, some of the language, it was just so vile.
LOPEZ: I think there's an important split screen that happened there too, because it was yesterday before this rally even took place that Vice President Harris decided to release her policies for Puerto Rico.
ALLISON: Yes.
LOPEZ: She put out the bullet points of what it would mean to get a federal task force together to examine Puerto Rico's economy and help uplift it, to actually address the energy infrastructure there and make sure that there's renewable energy for families there. And if you look at the split screen of the policy versus what the rhetoric can be and what we are to bring it back to the rally again,
TAYLOR: So, I think that was a that's a that's a great point. It's smart of her to do that. But I think the overarching message here that you see and across media is negative, negative, negative from Kamala, Trump's bad Trump's bad. And on Trump side, it's like she broke everything and I'm fixing everything. That's a better argument.
PHILLIP: Scott, we do have to go. I just -- it is very hard for me to accept you saying that all of the negative is coming from the Harris side, but we just literally sat through a six-hour Trump rally that was nothing but insults against Kamala Harris for her intelligence, not even for her policy.
[22:30:08]
Everyone stick me. Coming up next, breaking tonight, Amazon CEO and the owner of "The Washington Post" Jeff Bezos. He's finally speaking out about the paper's last-minute decision to skip a presidential endorsement. Another guest will join us in our fifth seat to discuss that. That's next.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
PHILLIP: Tonight, here's a byline that you do not normally see in "The Washington Post" -- Jeff Bezos, the Amazon founder and the owner of that paper, has put his name on a new op-ed.
[22:35:02] And it explains why the paper did what they did, namely deciding not to endorse either Kamala Harris or Donald Trump. Now, Bezos says it was all about the issue of trust and building it back up with the American public that often doesn't even believe what it reads in "The Washington Post's" papers. "By itself, declining to endorse presidential candidates is not enough to move us very far up the trust scale, but it's a meaningful step in the right direction."
With us now, CNN chief media analyst Brian Stelter. Really an extraordinary moment for the paper where I worked for many years. I love "The Washington Post", it's my hometown paper. It is painful to see what is happening to it. Also, I have to say, I'm fine with newspapers not endorsing candidates, but it's the timing of this one. And Jeff Bezos addressed that directly.
BRIAN STELTER, CNN CHIEF MEDIA ANALYST: Yes, and he acknowledges this was probably poor timing on his part. He's taking ownership of this decision for the first time tonight after three days of craziness inside the Post. I mean, tens of thousands, maybe even hundreds of thousands of subscriber cancellations. I've never seen anything like it.
Bezos has a business problem, which is a subscriber exodus, and he has a personnel problem. because many people inside the post don't trust him. They're worried that he's currying favor with Donald Trump, rolling over, trying to protect himself and his money at the expense of the Post. Bezos is saying that's not true. He's taking a principled stand. He's trying to restore trust in institutions.
But I want to recognize that for all the flaws of the mainstream media, and we have a lot of them, it's not just the media's fault that trust has been declining for decades. It's also decades of attacks by politicians.
PHILLIP: I mean, that is the main issue, is that like, I mean, yes, it could be that "The Washington Post" is endorsing candidates, or it could be that there are millions of voters who believe lying politicians who tell them lies, knowing that they are. I mean, that could be the problem, too.
ASHLEY ALLISON, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: Yes, I mean, I don't really agree with this Bezos on a lot of things, but I do think that like a newspaper endorsement doesn't move a voter. Because most likely if you're reading "The Washington Post", you're already voting and you already have a tilt. The timing is everything.
And I do raise questions about -- and I'm not even saying that he did it because he wants Donald Trump to win or Kamala Harris to win, but I do think, as we look at the direction our country is going and whether people believe that Donald Trump is a fascist or not.
Or whether people believe Donald Trump is trying to become a more authoritarian state, we do see trend lines that what happens with -- in dictatorial states, what happens in countries that are authoritarian is that media tends to start to filter the way that they move in the world. And doing something like this, I would argue actually for people who still had faith in media, perhaps have less faith in "The Washington Post", right?
PHILLIP: Yes, everybody who's left.
STELTER: You're saying MAGA supporters have already lost trust for the independents and the Democrats and the moderates.
ALLISON: Yes, but your reader, that's right. They might say now this is now a tilted, and so did you really reach your ultimate goal?
SCOTT TAYLOR (R) FORMER U.S. REPRESENTATIVE, VIRGINIA: No surprise. I think a little bit -- a little bit different -- just a little bit. But I think Bezos is actually correct here. And I think it's important for the media -- not all media, of course, but even journalists, as well. There is a of massive hit the credibility. It's not just politicians attacking. It's clear biased in many, many ways.
And I think, the media could use a little bit of a humble pill quite frankly. Look, I've been in 11 elections so I've sat in editorial board meetings numerous, numerous times. And I know the people in the editorial board, and I know what they write, and I know when I'm sitting there doing a meeting for an endorsement, which doesn't happen in a presidential election, obviously, but congressional senate.
PHILLIP: Actually, it does.
TAYLOR: You do -- does it? Okay.
PHILLIP: Yes.
PHILLIP: They do.
TAYLOR: Well, I'm sorry, I'm not familiar.
PHILLIP: Candidates do often meet with editorial board.
STELTER: Yes, I think more often down ballot matters.
TAYLOR: Down ballot --
STELTER: Down ballot matters more. And I know when I'm sitting with them that they don't agree with any of my policies. Literally not on my policies, because I see what they write. And I know that they're on the other side.
And my point is, I don't think that a small group, not all of them, but many of them, are you know, self-important and they think that they're going to be able to write some prose, use a publication distribution to politically attack someone who they don't agree with, which of course in this case is Donald Trump. And I think they have a credibility problem in the media for sure.
PHILLIP: Do you think this is why--I mean, of all the things going on in the world? T
TAYLOR: They show clear bias many, many times. I think that's very obvious. And so, and it can be on both sides. I'm not saying-- ALLISON: But yes, that's what I was going to ask you.
TAYLOR: I'm not saying it's only one side, it's on both sides. So, I think the media, I think Bezos is onto something here and I would love to have trust in media, of course, a hundred percent. I want them to be as objective as possible. And what's so bad about not endorsing a candidate and writing good stories that are objective?
PHILLIP: Hey, look, as I said at the top, candidate endorsements. not my jam. I don't necessarily think paper should be doing it top to bottom on the ballot. But the other part of this is about the kind of billionaire owner, right, which is not a new thing at all in media. "The L.A. Times" didn't endorse, but for a different reason, according to the daughter of the paper's owner who says it was about Gaza.
[22:40:03]
So, we're suddenly starting to see these newspaper owners who kind of maybe wanted to be seen as these benevolent forces. They're putting their hands in there now.
TAYLOR: "USA Today" didn't do it either. Why didn't they do it? I don't know.
PHILLIP: They didn't really say, yes --
STELTER: That might be the exception of the rule because they normally didn't, but in 2020 they did.
PHILLIP: Yes.
STELTER: But this is the thing with all of these papers. And in the case of "L.A. Times", the father disagrees with the son a bit. With the daughter, apparently, there's a little bit of a dispute. But the broader point is that many, many scholars have said for years that when a country is eroding its democratic norms and sliding into an authoritarian environment --
TAYLOR: Oh, let me say something.
STELTER: -- that this is what happens, that media leaders capitulate, that -- owners give in. Remember a couple months ago, Donald Trump said that he would arrest and imprison Mark Zuckerberg if Zuckerberg misbehaved again. The implication means Zuckerberg committed crimes.
PHILLIP: He said he would put him in prison for life.
TAYLOR: That is a different thing. Let me tell you, can I touch on two things here?
PHILLIP: Yes, go ahead.
TAYLOR: But the -- but the --you know, the -- some of the same people who are out there very upset today that they can't endorse a candidate were some of the same people who have loudly stood silent when people were censored -- journalists, media was censored, and political opponents were censored, as well.
So, I don't have a lot of sympathy for some of these self-important folks that should have stood up for censorship on either side, which goes back to what you said. You know, things are spiraling, no matter if it's the left or the right that's reducing journalism and the free press. You should stand up no matter, even if it's against the person that you don't like.
Zuckerberg's a different story. Zuckerberg routed hundreds of millions of dollars to non-profits that went specifically to election operations, mostly, 90-some percent in Democrat precincts. There's something wrong there.
PHILLIP: Wait, wait, hold on.
STELTER: But no evidence of illegality.
TAYLOR: No, no, no. I think he used a loophole. Are you okay with that loophole?
PHILLIP: Wait, what are you-- wait, what are you --
TAYLOR: Are you okay with Musk doing that right now? Probably not.
PHILLIP: Well, no, I mean, I don't think anybody has said Elon Musk doesn't have a right to involve himself in the election.
STELTER: Yes.
TAYLOR: No, we're speaking specifically about hundreds of millions of dollars routed to get out the vote operations.
PHILLIP: Okay.
TAYLOR: I think they're just pointing out that that's what's happening. No, we're speaking specifically about hundreds of millions of dollars routed to get out the vote operations.
PHILLIP: Okay.
TAYLOR: Ninety percent in Democrat precincts. That's a big problem.
PHILLIP: Elon Musk is literally --
TAYLOR: It might have been legal.
PHILLIP: Elon Musk is literally running virtually the entire Trump get-out-the-vote operation.
TAYLOR: Which is why -- which is why --
ALLISON: You know what? I think we might agree on something. I think--
TAYLOR: It's wrong everywhere, right?
ALLISON: And I think that that's why dark money should come out of politics, right?
PHILLIP: Okay.
ALLISON: And why citizen -- should be --
TAYLOR: Well, we should now be able to do that.
STELTER: Oh, I like this. There's agreement.
PHILLIP: There's bipartisan agreement.
STELTER: This is working.
TAYLOR: Cheers.
PHILLIP: Brian, Brian, thank you very much. We appreciate you. Everyone else, hang tight. Coming up next, Leonardo DiCaprio, the actor. He's making rare remarks on this presidential race. Another special guest is going to join us in our fifth seat to discuss them. That's next.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[22:46:58]
PHILLIP: A titanic-sized warning from an A-list movie star about Donald Trump and the climate. Leonardo DiCaprio is trying to incept voters to back Kamala Harris. And what's his reason? Well, he says, what would happen to the environment if America chooses to put a climate denier back into the White House? Here's what he says.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
LEONARDO DICAPRIO, OSCAR-WINNING ACTOR: Donald Trump continues to deny the facts. He continues to deny the science. Now, he's promised the oil and gas industry that he'll get rid of any regulation they want in exchange for a billion-dollar donation. We need a bold step forward to save our economy, our planet and ourselves. That's why I'm voting for Kamala Harris.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PHILLIP: So, that's Leo, but I've got one more for you, a one-up on that. The science guy, Bill Nye, is here at the table right now. For us nerds, this is a bigger deal. You are, Bill, in this new video about election denial. I'm going to play a little bit of it.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
BILL NYE, SCIENCE EDUCATOR: There's an election coming up, and there's a collection of climate-denying creeps that could drive Earth's climate right off a cliff. If elected, the other side will shut down the National Weather Service. Then where would your phone get weather alerts in an emergency like a hurricane, flood, or a wildfire? I know, it's scary. Like a horror movie.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PHILLIP: Climate denialism is what that is all about. Why are you taking this step? I mean, do you think that this is really -- there have been climate deniers for a long-time, including Donald Trump back in the White House. Why is this moment different?
NYE: Well, this is the election to win, you guys, if you are concerned about the future. If you have kids, if you have grandkids. One side is pretending climate change isn't happening. The other side is going to do something about it.
I used to say the election of 2000 was the most important election of my lifetime, because if Al Gore had become president, he won the popular vote, but if he had become president, we would have been something, something about climate change. We haven't. So, we're kicking the can down the road into the future. And that is in nobody's best interest.
Now I know there are a lot of other issues. I watched what went on around the table earlier. But climate change is, if you're a young person, climate change is a very concerning thing. And so, Scott, you're from --
TAYLOR: - Virginia Beach.
NYE: Yes and you have worked with -- because the Navy is concerned about shore --
TAYLOR: Resiliency and sea level rise, absolutely. And even in Congress, I was in the Climate Solutions Caucus.
NYE: Yes.
TAYLOR: And I think there are many people on our side, and I think, quite frankly, in my opinion, Donald Trump's the same way, pragmatic in a way, to try to thread a needle between economic growth, as well as environmental protection and trying to figure out a way to actually do that. I think one of the --
PHILLIP: Well, Scott --
Taylor: Sure, sure. Of course.
PHILLIP: -- can I play what Donald Trump said?
TAYLOR: I know what he said, but there's a difference between what he says and what he does.
PHILLIP: I know, but here's what he said. It was very recent. Just, let's play.
NYE: All right, here we go.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DONALD TRUMP, FORMER PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES AND CURRENT PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE (R): I haven't heard the environmental stuff mentioned in six months. I was saying the other night, what the hell happened to the environment? They don't ever talk about the environment anymore. You know why? Mike, you say, don't talk about it now. No, it's one of the great scams of all time. You know why they don't talk about it? Because people aren't buying it anymore.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PHILLIP: It has become kind of an article of faith among certain conservatives to deny that climate change is real. I mean, even when Florida got hit by two massive storms within two weeks, basically, you had the governor down there basically saying, this has nothing to do with the fact that the Gulf of Mexico is at record high temperatures.
TAYLOR: Well, look, I don't think -- climate is certainly changing. I don't think there's deniers. I mean, I know that people get politically attacked all the time, you're a complete denier. I don't think Ron DeSantis is a climate change denier. He appreciates evidence, and I think he's actually, that interview he was talking about, the strength of hurricanes over time and historically speaking where they were.
Like, look, I am one who wants to, as you said, I'm from Virginia Beach. We have an issue with sea level rise. We have an issue with resiliency. We have flooding and all that stuff. We're one of the, I think we're the second. most impacted after maybe Miami area or something like that.
So, what's the solution? He talked about money going away and being scammed and everything. There are a lot of scam. Oxfam just came out and just said there's tens of billions of dollars of missing money that they can't even account for it for World Bank and climate funds and money that's being used for that.
They don't know where it is, right? They just passed, Biden administration, of course, passed legislation with billions of dollars in the Inflation Reduction Act. And there was money for climate in there. What have they done with it?
I mean, I'm not sure. I would love to protect the environment. I want to protect the environment. I think Donald Trump does and most Republicans, but we want to do so in a way that's fiscally responsible and also balances between economic growth and protecting the environment.
ALLISON: And the Infrastructure Reduction Act is about a long game. And so, one thing that is in there that just, cause you said you didn't know what was in there is that building --
TAYLOR: - No, I didn't say I didn't know what was in there. I said, what was it doing?
ALLISON: What have they done? Well, they're building buildings that are more sustainable, that cities are trying to go green because you can't change --fix the problem immediately. We didn't take it overnight to get here, and so it's not going to take overnight to fix it. And so, obviously you don't build a building in a day. It takes some time, and then that impacts. So, that's one thing that they're doing. Look, I'm not a climate expert, so whatever you say, I'm following.
NYE: Now you're talking.
ALLISON: No, so--
TAYLOR: You know what they're building on.
ALLISON: On climate here, okay.
NYE: But on the Inflation Reduction Act, that is also known as the Clean Energy Plan. So, it's not something, as you say, you don't do it overnight, but one side is going to do something about it, the other side almost certainly will not. I appreciate that you were in the climate caucus or the environmental caucus.
TAYLOR: Caucus. Bipartisan.
NYE: But you're exceptional. And my concern about the guy running on the other side is he is going to surround himself with sycophants who are also not going to address climate change. And he's going to essentially take bribes from the fossil fuel industry.
PHILLIP: I wonder what -- I mean, can you give us a sense of what was it like under Donald Trump, when he was president, when it comes to dealing with the environment? I mean, was there just nothing happening?
NYE: Well, his emphasis was to roll back regulations.
PHILLIP: Yes.
NYE: And this idea that regulations are inherently bad, I think, is misguided.
TAYLOR: Do you think it's important to roll back some regulations for nuclear energy to make sure that's more robust? Because that, of course, is the cleanest energy.
NYE: Okay, sort of. Here's the challenge if you want nuclear power.
TAYLOR: e have a bunch of them -- and ships
NYE: Well, see, the Navy is great with those things because they manage it and they bury them in the West, in Western, in the mountain states.
TAYLOR: Yes.
NYE: But you can't do that with all the ways. The other thing, the main thing, you know about NIMBY, Not In My Backyard. Are you hip to BANANA, Build Absolutely Nothing Anywhere Near Anything. And so, people don't want nuclear power in general, but that's changing. Some people who in medium-sized towns are taking a look at it. If you want to do nuclear power, you have to overcome public
skepticism. So, there are about 440 commercial nuclear plants around the world. Three of those have had catastrophic failures. You would not get on an airplane that crashed three out of 440 times.
TAYLOR: So, we should use thorium.
NYE: Well, so thorium is less energetic and more plentiful some places, but solving this problem in the short-term or medium-term nuclear power is a huge challenge.
PHILLIP: All right.
NYE: I'm addressing that specifically. Back to you, Abby.
PHILLIP: Yes, we got a-listen. I learned something new.
[22:55:00]
ALLISON: Yes.
PHILLIP: I appreciate you, Bill Nye, thank you. Everyone else, thank you very much for joining us. New tonight, officials are looking for a suspect vehicle in a pair of fires in ballot boxes in the Northwest. We'll tell you what they're saying about that next.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[22:59:53]
PHILLIP: New tonight, a real picture of what election violence looks like in 2024.
[23:00:00]
Officials in Oregon have identified what they are calling a suspect vehicle that they say is tied to a pair of fires at ballot boxes. According to the "Associated Press", Portland police say that the fires in that city and in Vancouver, Washington are linked and that this car was involved in them.
The county elections director says that nearly all of the ballots in the fire there were protected by fire suppressants. They say that three were damaged. However, the "A.P." is also reporting that hundreds of ballots were damaged in the fire in the Washington state.
Thank you very much for watching "NewsNight State of the Race". "Laura Coates Live" starts right now.
