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CNN NewsNight with Abby Phillip
Biden Touts Accomplishments, Fears In Farewell Address; Biden Fears Rise Of U.S. Oligarchy During His Farewell Address; Biden and Trump Both Claim Credit For Hostage Deal; Democrats Grilled Pam Bondi's Confirmation Hearing; Trump Wants Ramaswamy To Seek Ohio's Vacant Senate Seat. Aired 10-11p ET
Aired January 15, 2025 - 22:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
[22:00:00]
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
ABBY PHILLIP, CNN HOST (voice over): Tonight, a president says goodbye.
JOE BIDEN, U.S. PRESIDENT: I still believe in the idea for which this nation stands.
PHILLIP: And for many Americans, the farewell isn't so fond.
Plus, 15 months later, and 5 days before inauguration, a hostage deal.
BIDEN: One of the toughest negotiations I've ever experienced.
PHILLIP: Does Donald Trump deserve the credit he's claiming?
Also, he's the first felon to serve as president and she's his pick to lead justice.
PAM BONDI, ATTORNEY GENERAL NOMINEE: I didn't take your homework assignment. I'm not going to be bullied.
PHILLIP: But is the arm of the law longer than the president-elect's?
And after weeks of silence since his sitcom saga, Vivek Ramaswamy could be on his way to the Senate. Is DOGE already running out of steam?
Live at the table, Anna Navarro, Kevin O'Leary, Ashley Allison, Melik Abdul, and Josh Rogin. Americans with different perspectives aren't talking to each other, but here they do.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
PHILLIP (on camera): Good evening. I'm Abby Philip in New York.
Let's get right to what America is talking about, a goodbye from the Oval. President Biden tonight giving his farewell address to the nation just five days before Donald Trump succeeds him. Biden touted his accomplishments both on the domestic and on the international fronts, including today's major hostage deal.
But what stood out the most in this address was his warning about the rise of an oligarchy inside of America. And keep in mind, this is coming as Elon Musk, Mark Zuckerberg, and Jeff Bezos will not only be front row at the Trump inauguration, but they are front row at Mar-a- Lago, too.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
BIDEN: I want to warn the country of some things that give me great concern. This is a dangerous -- and that's a dangerous concentration of power in the hands of a very few, ultra wealthy people, and the dangerous consequences if their abuse of power is left unchecked.
Today, an oligarchy is taking shape in America of extreme wealth, power, and influence that literally threatens our entire democracy, our basic rights and freedoms, and a fair shot for everyone to get ahead.
People should be able to make as much as they can, but play by the same rules, pay their fair share of taxes.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PHILLIP: Josh Rogin, is he right?
JOSH ROGIN, GLOBAL OPINIONS COLUMNIST, THE WASHINGTON POST: Well, of course he's right, but the part that he didn't mention is that both parties are participating in this oligarchy. There's gambling in the casino. The corruption didn't start with Donald Trump. He's just less bashful about it than most. But the fact is that President Biden was president for four years. You didn't see him advance legislation for campaign finance reform, you didn't see him take up the mantle of getting money out of politics. Kamala Harris raised a billion dollars in a month. So, for him to say, oh, wait, I'm worrying about the oligarchy, yes, of course, he's right, but it's a little too late. That's what I'd say.
PHILLIP: I mean, I think you're probably right about most of that, but what is happening right now is that a few, a handful of major companies and the ones that the men that lead them are saying in the next four years, it's going to be a make or break for A.I. And the person who gets closest to Donald Trump, the fastest and gives him the most money is going to win that race. That's extraordinary to think about.
KEVIN O'LEARY, CHAIRMAN, O'LEARY VENTURES: You know, we celebrate in America, the American dream. It's our number one export. Zuck was a college student once. Look what he's created. How many jobs, how much taxes has he paid? Elon Musk, maybe the most successful entrepreneur in history, another aspect of the American dream, just showing you what can happen. We should be celebrating this.
And, by the way, that message that Biden put out there, that was Harris' probably number one message during the election. How'd that work for her? Not so well. PHILLIP: Do you think that was her number one message?
O'LEARY: I think so. No. Remember, she said, we have Trump coming and all the bad things about concentration of wealth. Americans appreciate the ability to pursue the American dream every day and we do not push down on success ever. So, yes, Musk is rich. So what? Zuck, rich, and everybody else comes to this country, almost drowning in rivers or getting cut under barbed wires to get in here to pursue their dream, why do we ever think that we should bash their success?
[22:05:10]
What are you guys talking about?
PHILLIP: Ashley, I want you to get in, but let me just say this. It is not about how rich they are. Just to observe what he said.
O'LEARY: They're not rich enough. Is that what you're saying?
PHILLIP: No. I'm saying that actually. What got them there, Mark Zuckerberg, Sam Altman, Jeff Bezos, they all got to where they are because they came up with good ideas. They built big, good businesses.
O'LEARY: Let's punish them.
PHILLIP: And -- no. And they did so largely without having to do what they are doing now. The fact that they have to do it now, I think, actually is a change for them. They were not going to Washington themselves groveling toward the political leaders to try to keep their businesses afloat.
ASHLEY ALLISON, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: Yes, they were disruptors. You know, I hear you that this did not just start with Donald Trump, and I don't actually think that was Kamala Harris' message. And I actually think, when I listened to this, I thought Joe Biden was literally trying to pass a torch and give a nod to Democrats about maybe we should have rethought and not just run down my list of accomplishments of all the great things I did, but also talk about like --
O'LEARY: Pass it to who? Gavin Newsom?
ALLISON: No, to the next generation of leaders and talk about -- right, I don't think he was doing it to Gavin Newsom, but he was saying to the American people, the American dream is real. And if you work hard, you should be able to prosper. But everybody should play by the same rules, and it shouldn't just be billionaires get to continue to expand their wealth while the working class Americans that so many Democrats acknowledge they weren't able to say that --
ANA NAVARRO, CNN SENIOR POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: On the billionaire front, I don't think -- I think it's hard to say that Joe Biden was punishing them when Jeff Bezos was famously at one of the more recent state dinners in the Biden White House, when Bezos and SpaceX, you know, Elon Musk's company, have all of these contracts with Biden administration agencies. So, it's hard for me to know how he was punishing them.
But to me, you know, let's go back. I'd like to go back big picture to this address today. I don't think it was an address for today. I think was an address for history and posterity and how the Biden administration is going to be seen. I don't think the 36 percent approval is going to be affected in the short-term one iota by this farewell speech.
But I do think that we are going to study it and the things he said. And he was passing the torch not to Gavin Newsom, not to an elected official. He was passing the torch, he told the American people that we are the keepers of the flame, when he talked about the Statue of Liberty and that analogy that he made.
He also talked about how so many of the things he did are going to grow and bloom in decades to come.
O'LEARY: How do you think history's going to treat him? How do you think history's going to treat his foreign policy, his Bidenomics? How do you think he's going to be treated, pardoning his son, the Biden brand name? Do you think a single Biden would get on the board of the Smithsonian --
NAVARRO: I don't think you can argue against pardoning the son when you voted -- when you supported a felon. You see that, to me, you lose the moral authority there to talk about that.
O'LEARY: How do you feel about the Biden brand? How did he help his family? It's worse than Nixon for him.
NAVARRO: No, talk to me about helping the family when Jared Kushner got $2 billion from the Saudis?
MELIK ABDUL, RADIO HOST, GOP POLITICAL STRATEGIST: So, one of the things -- I think that one of the things that we have to be mindful here is that all politicians play this game where they say, the rich -- you know, especially with Democrats, the rich should pay their fair share. And Josh is right, Joe Biden has been in office and the rich have only gotten richer under Joe Biden.
It happens though, under every single president, whether it's Republican or Democrat, it is just Democrats, their mantra is that the rich should pay more. I thought that for Biden's speech.
Now, Biden came into the White House with a lot of promise. He's been in office since about the same time as, what, I think the Ford Pinto was an actual vehicle. That was back in the 70s. He came in office with this number of years of experience. And what you saw during the Biden administration, unfortunately for him, and unfortunately for Democrats was a lot of underperformance. I thought that they thought the 2020 midterms, where Biden was dark Brandon, they saw success, Kamala Harris was out as the abortion czar all of that was supposed to help Joe Biden, and then we get to June and then we get to July of this year. And the bottom fell out of it for Joe Biden.
So, I don't think we heard attacking the 1 percent of the rich is really going to help Joe Biden at all.
ROGIN: It's not about -- Kevin, it's not about not letting people get rich. It's about not letting rich people control the political process and not having our politicians captured by those rich people such it that they can institute regulation and common sense laws to make sure that the people at the top don't abuse the people at the bottom. And our system in Washington is broken.
O'LEARY: That's fair. It's all fair, but half the country is still wondering how Joe Biden got rich.
ALLISON: Yes, okay. So, here --
O'LEARY: How did he get rich?
ROGIN: But if Joe Biden got rich --
[22:10:00]
O'LEARY: How did he get rich? Does anybody understand how that happened?
PHILLIP: I actually think that, Kevin, your question about Joe Biden's legacy and how he will be seen is actually extremely important, because I think it's not just Republicans who are asking the question, is Joe Biden going to be looked back on fondly, Democrats are too. One of those aspects of that is his decision to even be in the race.
So, we heard from Jill Biden this week in a Washington Post story and she talked about Nancy Pelosi and her role in pushing Biden out. She said, I've been thinking a lot about relationships. It's been on my mind a lot lately. She paused. We were friends for 50 years. It was disappointing.
O'LEARY: She threw him under a bus. What do you expect?
PHILLIP: Yes, but, I mean, maybe this is expecting too much from the first lady, but it seems like there is no reflection on Joe Biden's decision to be there.
NAVARRO: It wasn't what she did, it was the way she did it. Listen, Chuck Schumer, Hakeem Jeffries were also pressuring Joe Biden to get out, but you weren't hearing about those private conversations every time you turned on --
PHILLIP: But Joe Biden wasn't listening. I mean, I think that's why the temperature had to get turned up.
ALLISON: I think the reflection that we will all need to acknowledge is that Joe Biden should have never run for reelection. And when we talked about passing the torch, and the thing that sat with -- as someone who worked to get him elected, as someone who worked for him as vice president, to get him elected as vice president and in the White House, when I heard that speech tonight, I was like, man, I wish he would've given it after the midterms in 2022. And it would've --
PHILLIP: On a high note.
ALLISON: On a high note.
PHILLIP: That would've been a high note.
ALLISON: And I don't fault the first lady or Joe Biden for still being a little salty because the wound is still very fresh, but hindsight is 20-20 and we should have had a primary as a Democratic Party. He should have passed the torch after the midterms when we went out on a high note and we would have been able to run about a future vision.
The message I heard tonight that I did not hear a lot of times over the last two years of Joe Biden's campaign was a vision for the future. He didn't talk about his accomplishments.
PHILLIP: But it was a pretty dark vision.
ALLISON: It wasn't. But to Ana's point, it was like, but we can brighten it if we find the best of America.
NAVARRO: And let me say something on Jill Biden. Anybody who's actually happily married and loves their spouse, so it might be difficult for the Trump people to understand, a lot of times when your spouse gets thrown under the bus, it pisses you off more than it pisses them. It hurts you more than it --
O'LEARY: So, the country should suffer?
NAVARRO: No, the country shouldn't suffer. What I'm saying is she's a normal human being. She's the normal wife.
PHILLIP: She's the one holding the grudge as --
NAVARRO: So, he wants us to be the keeper of the flames? She's the keeper of the grudge.
O'LEARY: You know, it reminds me of a moment we were together months ago, and maybe it's time for me to ask for an apology when I suggested to everybody here that we should have run a process rather than just grant Kamala Harris her ability to run without a Democratic process. She got slaughtered in the election.
Please, you can apologize to me now, thank you, I appreciate it.
ALLISON: No. I wasn't there, I wouldn't apologize to you then or now.
PHILLIP: I think that the -- I remember this conversation, and you kept saying that it was unconstitutional when my point was, and I think the facts are, that the Democrats can run whatever process or lack of process that they want. It was -- they did what they did, they paid the price for it, but they are entitled to do. That's just how the system works.
O'LEARY: Is that an apology? Yes, no?
PHILLIP: No, it's pretty much not. O'LEARY: Oh my goodness.
ROGIN: If it had worked, it would have been genius and it failed, so it's an orphan and nobody wants to take the blame. And nobody could have predicted that.
O'LEARY: No, she also took the Democratic brand down 15 points.
ROGIN: She was the only hope that they had at that moment for them to win.
ABDUL: It was already too late.
ROGIN: It was already too late. At that moment, that was the best decision because they had already --
O'LEARY: This time, maybe she can rise.
NAVARRO: And, by the way, she didn't get slaughtered. It's not like she won the majority.
O'LEARY: I bet you she has no chance of ever having leadership.
PHILLIP: There's a lot more to get to in the show. Everyone stick around.
Coming up next, Biden and Trump both claim credit for the hostage deal, but who is right?
Plus, Trump promised retribution over and over again in the campaign. So, will his pick for attorney general actually follow through with that? We'll debate Pam Bondi's responses on Capitol Hill.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[22:15:00]
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
BIDEN: After eight months of nonstop negotiation, the Biden administration, by my administration, a ceasefire and a hostage deal has been reached by Israel and Hamas.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PHILLIP: President Biden emphasizing my in that message, both he and Donald Trump claim credit for the deal 15 months after the massacre in Israel. Trump, in fact, says it only happened because of his election victory. And he says he's achieving so much without even being in office yet.
Here is how Biden responded to that earlier.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
BIDEN: Thank you. REPORTER: Who gets credit for this, Mr. President? You or Trump?
BIDEN: Is that a joke?
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PHILLIP: The truth is that while the parameters of the deal had been established early last year, it did take both Biden and Trump teams to get it across the finish line.
I'm going to be the first to say this is a good moment for the globe. This is a good moment for the country. And thank God that both parties, I'm talking both president, both administrations, were grownups enough to get in the same room, hold hands, and get this thing done.
ROGIN: It's not the only time, by the way. They've been working together on a bunch of different issues. And this is not 1979. In 1979, the Carter administration negotiated the release of 44 American hostages and the Iranians didn't release them until the day Ronald Reagan was inaugurated, and they did that to screw with the Carter administration, and there was some back deal shadiness.
[22:20:06]
This is not that. They work together, as they should. It's tentative, it's delicate. It might fall apart. We still have to be aware that there are a lot of things that could go wrong. But this is kind of like when, you know, you're trying to get the pickle jar open it and then you can't get it up and then you hand it to your friend and he pops it open. Who was really responsible? Somebody loosened it. And somebody popped it open and they both deserve credit.
NAVARRO: But there's no doubt that this plan was laid out by Joe Biden and his administration in May. It is the plan.
ROGIN: So, why didn't it happen in May?
NAVARRO: Because he doesn't -- let me just finish.
ROGIN: Sure.
NAVARRO: Because he doesn't have the relationship or the leverage with Netanyahu.
ROGIN: He had the leverage. He just didn't use the leverage.
NAVARRO: He didn't have the relationship. There's no doubt that --
ROGIN: They've known him for 50 years.
NAVARRO: There's no doubt that Netanyahu wanted to make sure that he didn't do anything to tip the scale in Joe Biden's favor before --
PHILLIP: And their relationship, Josh --
ROGIN: I don't think that's what happened then. I think what happened is that --
PHILLIP: But, Josh, wouldn't you agree that Netanyahu's relationship with Biden had been deteriorating throughout all of last year?
ROGIN: You have to remember that Trump and Netanyahu also have a very complicated and often troubled relationship over the last 50 years that these guys have known each other. And what actually happened was --
NAVARRO: My God, he's been in Mar a Lago more times than Kevin the last few months.
ROGIN: I gave you several examples where they were angry at each other. The point is that --
O'LEARY: I want to give Abby some credit here on this one, because the infrastructure of the deal is definitely Biden's since last May, 100 percent. But what made it happen is Trump is unpredictable, and the adversaries all around the world are scared poo-poo. They're scared of him. He's crazy. That's how they think about it. So, they wanted to get this deal done. Hamas said, oh, poo-poo, here comes Trump. We're going to close this deal now.
ROGIN: But Hamas didn't make the concession. Netanyahu made the concession.
O'LEARY: I get it. But it took Trump to say in that one Mar-a-Lago press conference, there will be hell to pay if I get to the office, and these hostages aren't back. The whole world heard it, and each Chihuahua, caramba, there was a deal. So --
ROGIN: And Steve Witkoff went to Netanyahu and said, you're going to make the -- remember, all the concessions in the last few days, most of them anyway, were Netanyahu's concessions.
NAVARRO: That's my point.
ROGIN: And that's what actually happened. Trump pressured Netanyahu successfully.
O'LEARY: Yes or no? I'd rather have an unpredictable, crazy guy in the White House with the American Army and the American military behind him in today's world. Because people --
ROGIN: That's not what happened here. What happened here is that --
PHILLIP: Hold on, Josh.
ABDUL: I support Donald Trump. I voted for him three times. This credit goes to Joe Biden. Joe Biden --
O'LEARY: Not a hundred percent. That's not fair.
ABDUL: We don't have to get into numbers. The fact is that I've seen under various presidents, their credit go to another president. No one wants to give the other one in power or in the administration. They didn't want to give him credit. Joe Biden is president of the United States. This happened under Joe Biden's watch. He deserves a lot of credit.
It doesn't mean that Donald Trump, his people, he's very unpredictable. It does not mean that does not play a role, but we don't know, and I will say that we don't know that, and maybe it will come out at some point, Donald Trump's actual substantive role. We know what he said, but his substantive role, we don't know that right now, and we may.
ALLISON: And guess what? We will know soon, because he will become the president. And this deal is fragile to begin with and there are hostages that are still there. And there needs to be peace so that Gaza can recover, humanitarian aid can go in, Israelis can live in safety, and Donald Trump is going to have to actually govern. And being crazy is not the best way sometimes to keep peace. So --
NAVARRO: And this hostage deal is in phases.
PHILLIP: Tom Cotton this morning sent this message on X saying lame duck Joe Biden is trying to cram down a bad deal on Israel on his way out the door. What happened there?
ROGIN: This is really important. It's really good that you brought that up. Because for the last year, since May, Republicans have been criticizing Biden for being too tough on Netanyahu and for not -- I'm sorry, for being -- for not being strong enough a supporter of Netanyahu, and so he didn't want to be tough on Netanyahu because he didn't want to get criticized by the Republicans. Trump campaigned by telling -- saying he was going to be more supportive of Netanyahu. And then as soon as he got elected, he switched and pressured Netanyahu.
So, the Republicans were talking out of both sides of their mouth. They're saying that Joe Biden, you have to support Netanyahu 100 percent, whatever he wants to do, and Hamas is the problem. And as it turns out, Trump revealed very skillfully, actually, that Netanyahu is the roadblock.
O'LEARY: Can I ask the table a question here that just slipped through the cracks? As I recall, Netanyahu has been charged by The Hague. That's still out there with other leaders of Hamas as well. The only countries he can travel to are Israel and the United States. They're the only ones that don't abide by The Hague's order. If his plane ever runs out of fuel in another country, he'll go to trial in The Hague. How do you feel about that?
ABDUL: Well, he won't. That won't happen. You mean the ICC warrant?
O'LEARY: What happens to these leaders after they age out and they leave their mandates in their countries? They're 80 years old, they're on trial in The Hague.
[22:25:00]
ROGIN: He's going to be on trial in Israel, first of all.
ALLISON: I'll be like a nominee for the cabinet and say, I'm not going to entertain a hypothetical.
PHILLIP: Let me ask you this, because one thing I have seen some of is some I told you so from Muslim Americans who said the right thing to do was to not back, you know, the Biden-Harris administration. Some of them made a calculation that Trump actually would ultimately be better for their cause ending the war. I mean, were they right?
ALLISON: I don't see it that way. What I see is for people who are part of the uncommitted movement were experiencing immense pain for their family members that were living in Gaza and innocent people that were being murdered and they wanted relief. And they didn't feel like the Biden administration, right or wrong, were listening to them or hearing them. And so they made a political judgment.
I wasn't against the uncommitted movement, but I still thought Joe Biden and Kamala Harris would be better for the Muslim community in America and internationally than Donald Trump. In this snapshot of time, maybe they can say, I told you so, but I'm trying to say, in five days, history will begin to rewrite itself in a very different way, and we have to wait and see.
ROGIN: And the war's not over. The war's not over. The deal is temporary.
NAVARRO: And the hostage deal is in phases. So, you know, until I see those 33 hostages come out, until I see a ceasefire, I'm not going to be calling it a victory, because we've been very close before. And even if those 33 hostages come out, there's another 65. And so, you know, there's so much more that has to happen.
(CROSSTALKS)
NAVARRO: And only Donald Trump is responsible.
PHILLIP: Let's all hope that this deal sticks. I mean, you know, the families are on pins and needles tonight, and they will be until their loved ones are home.
Everyone, hold on for us. Coming up next, the question is, will Trump's pick for attorney general actually seek retribution? See what happened when Democratic senators grilled Pam Bondi on Capitol Hill.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[22:31:34]
PHILLIP: Will Donald Trump interfere with the Justice Department? It was a big fear of Democrats today as they grilled his pick for attorney general. Pam Bondi insists that it just won't be an issue when it comes to the first felon ever to serve as president. But will her promises age well? Here is Bondi when she was asked if she would hire someone who had an enemies list for retribution.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
SEN. SHELDON WHITEHOUSE (D-RI): Would you have hired someone into the Florida attorney general's office who you knew had an enemies list?
PAM BONDI, INCOMING U.S. ATTORNEY GENERAL: Senator, to cut to the chase, you're clearly talking about Kash Patel. I don't believe he has an enemies list.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PHILLIP: Kash Patel is Trump's pick to lead the FBI. And the problem is he does have an enemies list. It's one that he published in his book. I got it right here. It names a lot of high-profile people, Democrats, law enforcement officials and others. But more generally speaking, Bondi denies that there would be any retribution or enemies list in a Trump administration at all, except that is also not what Trump has promised.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DONALD TRUMP, U.S. PRESIDENT-ELECT: I will appoint a real special prosecutor to go after the most corrupt president in the history of the United States of America, Joe Biden and the entire Biden crime family. For those who have been wronged and betrayed, I am your retribution. We have some sick people, radical left lunatics.
And I think they're the -- and it should be very easily handled by, if necessary, by National Guard or, if really necessary, by the military. We will root out the communists, Marxists, fascists and the radical left thugs that live like vermin.
BONDI: There will never be an enemies list within the Department of Justice.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PHILLIP: What I don't understand is Donald Trump won. He has the votes to confirm Pam Bondi. Why misdirect on something as plain as day as this? Just be honest. Just tell the American people I ran on retribution. I'm going to carry it out in the Justice Department.
ABDUL: Well, you can't say that. And you know, it knows. No.
PHILLIP: Did you hear the clip we just played?
ABDUL: You cannot say that if you're sitting there trying to get confirmed, you can't say that. And if you heard what Pam Bondi said herself, she said that there will not be an enemies list. They're trying to refer to Kash Patel. There's no need to refer to her. I thought to him, I thought that Pam Bondi comforted herself very well.
She gave it as good as they gave it to her. I think there was a much different situation because I left yesterday with Pete Hegseth hearing. I felt very differently about Pete Hegseth as opposed to Pam Bondi because she was strong, even though she gave that bit of back and forth. She was in. She had a command of the facts in a way that I was not comfortable with when it came to Pete --
PHILLIP: Does anybody here think that if she had said Donald Trump, it will be the president of the United States. He ran on this. I will carry out his orders that any Republican would have said that's too much--
O'LEARY: Too much campaign rhetoric.
PHILLIP: I'm just wondering, do you think that she would have lost support--
O'LEARY: Remember Liz Cheney kept saying Trump was a Nazi. Is he a Nazi?
PHILLIP: Do you think that she would have lost support if she had said what Trump said?
O'LEARY: Look, campaign rhetoric is irrelevant now during these hearings because both sides did crazy stuff. Do you remember Nazi hunting with Hillary Clinton and Liz Cheney? They actually went to New York to hunt Nazis down at the campaign headquarters. It was nuts. I was here when that happened.
PHILLIP: I don't know what you're talking about.
O'LEARY: So listen, Cheney was referenced also today being asked by, you know, chef, would you put her in jail as Trump has ordered?
[22:35:09]
And basically, who cares when Cheney is going to jail or if she should go to jail when he's from California? This whole state's burning.
NAVARRO: You don't care that Donald Trump might put somebody or is threatening to put somebody in jail because of doing her job. And on the January 6th Committee --
O'LEARY: She's used his time to say that Liz Cheney should go to jail.
NAVARRO; You don't think that's a legitimate question--
O'LEARY: When his whole state's burning down and people have no homes? I can't read the room. This guy--
NAVARRO: And the attorney general is going to do what about the burning in California?
O'LEARY: Look, the point is, he did not read the room. What a heartless thing to pursue when his whole state's on fire.
NAVARRO: You see what Donald Trump tweeted out today? He put out a tweet with his enemies list where he basically said, hey, to all of you who are recommending staffers to my administration, do not even try to recommend anybody who has worked for Liz Cheney or Mitt Romney. I think that's fair. No, but it's worse than that.
NAVARRO: Yes. So, he's not -- he's not just weeding out the leftist thug
ABDUL: -- appointees. You get to appoint the people who are.
ROGIN: Yes, they don't get to do whatever they want with those jobs. And we there's a lot of noise. And then there's what's really going to happen.
And what all we can do is look at what they did in the last time that the Trump had control of the Justice Department. And if you watch what he pushes officials to do, whether you think it was illegal or not, it was certainly unethical. It was certainly unprecedented and it was certainly vindictive and it was certainly political.
And there are a hundred examples of that. And there's no reason to think, well, let's go down the list using the Justice Department to try to affect the outcome of the election, purging officials, investigating the FBI investigators. There's a litany of.
ALLISON: And he and I think that's something that I think is critical, though, on this point, though, is that he did do this with Bill Barr, where he tried to get him to be a part of overturning the election. And Bill Barr wouldn't do it.
ROGIN: Exactly.
ALLISON: And today, when Pam Bondi was asked, she acted like that didn't happen, that it was a hypothetical that she wouldn't answer. And I find that problematic. I do think Pam Bondi did pretty well in the confirmation hearing today.
But there were some critical issues that were brought up on the campaign trail that she wasn't able to answer. And earlier on this network, Chris Coons was saying I -- he also said her first two questions that he asked her, she did well.
But it was that question about the overreach of the office. There is a firewall between the White House and the Department of Justice. And that has existed.
NAVARRO: But actually, it's not that she wasn't able to answer them. Look, I know I know Pam Bondi quite well from Florida.
O'LEARY: Are you a fan?
NAVARRO: I've been her friend. I haven't seen her in many years.
O'LEARY: Over between you now?
NAVARRO: Well, it's over between me and a lot of people who are Trumpers. But by the way, I don't want to ruin her reputation with the people who might have to vote for her. I think what you saw today is a very prepared Pam Bondi who chose not to answer and chose to pivot.
I also think you saw Pam Bondi, who knows that she's got the votes. Yes. So you can be glib. You can be combative. You can be defensive because you don't have to be sucking up to the Democrats.
ALLISON: I know, but that makes you again comfortable. ROGIN: But the test is when she's in the job. And we all know Trump administration officials have been asked to do things unethical or even illegal. Many of them said yes. Many of them said no. I know some who said yes. I know some who said no.
The ones who said no. Some bad things happen to them in that administration. But they stood up for what's right. Is Pam Bondi the former or the latter? We don't know because she hasn't.
O'LEARY: Shouldn't we be at this point optimistic for Trump 2.0? Let's give them all a chance.
ROGIN: Based on what he said.
ABDUL: I just think it's rude for us to have a conversation as if the Biden administration did not engage in the very sort of weaponization that Donald Trump is campaigning. It's not the same.
PHILLIP: We're not going to. I don't want to relitigate that, but I will say this.
ABDUL: It's Apple's in bowling ball.
PHILLIP: One of the reasons that Pam Bondi got a lot of questions about Kash Patel is also and you might like this, Kevin, she has the qualifications for the job that she's been nominated for. She.
O'LEARY: I agree. I thought it was the Kash Patel hearing.
PHILLIP: Well, so she has the qualifications. And I think that is really the main reason why her path to confirmation is going to be fairly unproblematic, despite, you know, all of her history of election denialism, et cetera. She's likely to be confirmed and confirmed easily. Everyone, hang tight. Coming up next --
NAVARRO: One second is going to be confirmed. And he is woefully unqualified. He will probably be going to have no problem because he's not going to lose any Republican votes.
PHILLIP: Everyone stay with us. Coming up next. He's been quiet since his controversial Steve Urkel moment and saved by the bell takes. But now Vivek Ramaswamy may be going to the United States Senate. But what is happening to DOGE?
[22:40:03]
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
PHILLIP: Tonight, is Doge running out of steam even before it's even started? Vivek Ramaswamy is one of the two people that Donald Trump tapped to lead a group to make cuts in the government. But now he's being privately encouraged by Trump himself to consider filling J.D. Vance's seat in Ohio. In fact, Ramaswamy and Ohio Governor Mike DeWine met over the weekend, according to our reporting.
This is a little tricky. There's some interesting politics here. Ramaswamy wants to run for governor. He wants to do DOGE because DOGE might give him something to run on as somebody who's not run anything in government before.
[22:45:02]
But Trump wants him apparently out and in the Senate.
ABDUL: So, I'm a break. I'm going to break rank right here. I was never a fan of the whole idea of Doge. Vivek Ramaswamy and Elon Musk understand that many people on the right. And that's why I said I'm a three-time Trump voter. So, they're going to call me a rhino or whatever. I never thought that this was a good idea.
And I think that Elon Musk, with some of the things that Elon Musk himself has done, lying about the budget, claiming that there is some money for a stadium in Washington, D.C., that just literally was not true. So, I don't trust the guy, just me. I don't trust Elon Musk. I wrote an article about him, about the problem with the GOP has with someone like Elon Musk.
NAVARRO: There goes the Twitter account.
ABDUL: Well, well, literally, I just got my Twitter account back today because I was critical of Elon Musk and I just was off of restriction today before I came into the free speech.
ROGIN: Free Speech. Free Speech.
O'LEARY: Get your back on it tonight.
ABDUL: I don't have a following. Nobody follows me. Trust me. So, but what I will say about this would Vivek Ramaswamy, you know, I was critical of Vivek Ramaswamy because I felt as if he ran during the primary as basically a surrogate for Donald Trump.
So, I'm not a fan of Vivek Ramaswamy. I think that there is a need for an effort like DOGE. But the fact that Donald Trump is now saying, well, maybe Vivek Ramaswamy, you can be a senator, that means that he has questions.
PHILLIP: Let me just play just to your point, actually, because I think there's been some Doge erosion happening for a while now. Elon has been walking some of this stuff back.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNKNOWN: How much do you think we can rip out of this wasted $6.5 trillion Harris-Biden budget?
ELON MUSK, CO-DIRECTOR, TRUMP DEPARTMENT OF GOVERNMENT EFFICIENCY: Well, I think we can do at least two trillion.
MARK PENN, TRUMP SUPPORTER AND FORMER CLINTON ADVISER: Do you think two trillion is a realistic number now that you're looking more closely at it? MUSK: Yes, well, I think I think we'll try for two trillion. I think
that's like the best case outcome. If we try for two trillion, we've got a good shot at getting one.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
O'LEARY: Right. What's wrong with that? It's 50 percent off retail.
ROGIN: Because it's not going to happen.
O'LEARY: If you started with two, he's giving you one. I'll take it. What's wrong with that?
ROGIN: Because it's not real. It's never going to happen. And every four years, some very smart businessman comes in and is like, I'm going to reform the government, cut all the spending. And then they realize it's a lot more difficult than just saying. I remember Rex Tillerson, he was the head CEO of Amazon.
O'LEARY: Does the effort have merit?
ROGIN: There are real problems, but just because you're good at business doesn't mean you're good at government.
ALLISON: Let me just say, this is what I think is happening.
O'LEARY: Well, you're not answering the question.
ALLISON: Wait, here's what I think is happening, actually, with Vivek's, OK?
ROGIN: He's smart to get out before the thing goes belly up.
ALLISON: Vivek, a climber. He's like, I'm going to go where I think I can prosper. Right. He ran for president. And then when he knew he was never going to win. But then he used that as an opportunity to get close to Donald Trump. And then it's getting close to Donald Trump.
And he's like, put me on DOGE. And now he's like, oh, I'm going to go anywhere. So let me go back to Ohio. He's lucky if he gets appointed, because the likelihood of Vivek getting elected in my home state of Ohio is very slim.
ALLISON: I can't believe it. An ambitious man. Oh, no. I'm just saying like--
O'LEARY: I'm just horrible.
ALLISON: But it's not he's ambitious, but he's not actually accomplishing anything in his ambition.
O'LEARY: Wait a second. If he ends up in the Senate. He accomplished a lot.
NAVARRO: If he ends up in the Senate, he ends up because he's getting appointed, right? ALLISON: Not because he's elected.
NAVARRO: I'll tell you what I think is happening. I think this is actually brilliant by Donald Trump, because I think I'm getting the idea that Trump finds Vivek slightly irritating.
ALLISON: Yes.
NAVARRO: Right. He's like that. He's like annoying, overenthusiastic little nerd going, pick me, pick me. And so, he would get rid of the vague, put him in the Senate. Well, he'll be a reliable vote.
ABDUL: But then what does that leave Elon? Just running Doge by himself?
NAVARRO: No, he's got he's got he's got to (INAUDIBLE).
ROGIN: And how long have you been covering Washington and watching and watching businessmen come in and being like, I'm going to fix it. And then they get in. It's like, oh, it's difficult. Forget about it.
PHILLIP: It's a lot harder than you think and it's a lot harder than you say.
O'LEARY: You did not answer the question. Is it worth scrutinizing government spending from an outside set of eyes? Yes or no. You know, those two. No, no, no. Hold on.
PHILLIP: What about one of them? Hold on, Kevin. Yes. The answer to your question is absolutely. But you got you cannot skirt around the mandatory spending in the budget. If you're going to do it, you have to address the fact that there is mandatory spending and it needs to be reformed and that Congress and the politicians have to have the guts to do it.
O'LEARY: Because you cannot tell me there isn't fat in government. It drips the fat.
PHILLIP: Yes. I get it. I get it.
ROGIN: There's a strongman argument.
PHILLIP: Everybody, we got to go. The moral of this story, everyone, is do not come for Zack and Slater. OK, the Republican Party is not going to tolerate it. Apparently, this may be why he's having some trouble getting DeWine to a yes on that Senate seat. We will see what happens in Ohio.
Everyone stay with me. Coming up next, the panel gives us their nightcaps and we will get their reactions to Justice Alito's curiosity about porn sites.
[22:50:09]
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
We are back and it's time for the news nightcap. You each have 30 seconds to say your piece. Ashley, you're first.
ALLISON: OK, in a world with all this heightened political drama, I sometimes need escapism and I do it through the Real Housewives.
[22:55:01]
And boy, are we on a swing between. And if you don't watch it, oh, well, but if you do, you know what I'm talking about. Uwe and Bryn on Rony, Bronwyn and Lisa on Salt Lake City, Kyle and Dorit with Beverly Hills, and then Wendy being peacemaker in Panama. Like who would have thought in Potomac? So, if you need, --
PHILLIP: No spoilers, no spoilers.
ALLISON: That was already aired. No, yep. I'm not going to. And I'd have sides picked on all of these fights. But we have to see the finale.
NAVARRO: We're sending the Real Housewives to negotiate the Panama Canal.
ALLISON: No, no, no, no, no, no, no. Just within their little.
NAVARRO: OK. It might do a better job, though. All right, Kevin.
O'LEARY: Very simple situation. I have to go to the inauguration. I'm excited to go. I need a limousine for three days. I'm thinking a couple of hundred bucks a day, like always. No, no. During the inauguration, you have to buy four days at 39,000 per day. I'm teaming up with Elizabeth Warren, AOC and definitely Kamala Harris. This is price gouging. This is outrageous. Where are these women when I need them?
PHILLIP: Corporate greed.
ROGIN: I really feel for you in that one.
ALLISON: And your need for a limousine.
O'LEARY; I'm stunned. This is price gouging. This is outrageous.
ALLISON: We're talking about like a 1990 prom (inaudible).
O'LEARY: $4000 a day for a limo. I'm going to become a limo driver.
PHILLIP: Welcome to Washington.
O'LEARY: Thank you.
PHILLIP: Welcome to Washington, I believe.
NAVARRO: Kevin, sell one of those watches on one of your wrists.
ABDUL: We'll talk about rich people problems. Well, I want to give a shout out t the green marching machine. I think that's the name. Get it wrong. Mississippi Valley State University out of Mississippi. The great Magnolia state of Mississippi is facing a lot of criticism because their band is coming. They accepted the invitation to come perform at the inauguration. I encourage everyone to go to their GoFundMe page, contribute so they can raise the money. They're trying to raise $350,000. Conservatives have helped them raise about $200,000 thus far. Well, for the band, we could talk about it.
O'LEARY: That's more price gouging.
ABDUL: We can talk about it after the show. But it's a band of about 250 people. Students are absolutely excited. It is the adults who have a problem with them coming. So please go support Mississippi Valley State University.
PHILLIP: I think that's a good one to endorse, Anna.
NAVARRO; OK, so I want to talk about this sweet picture that the White House put out. And this happened while Joe Biden was giving his farewell speech today. And, you know, last week we were looking at the drama, the interpersonal drama and human and the body language and interactions at the Carter funeral.
And there was a little coolness between Kamala and Jill Biden that was commented on today. We saw this picture. Where's my picture? Where's my nice picture?
All right. So that was, I think, at the moment when Joe Biden was saying that he has become like family with Kamala and Doug, that for him, family means everything. And so I like to see that moment.
O'LEARY: So, it's kissing.
ROGIN: Yes, I met a lot of my family members.
NAVARRO: Well, you know, yes, Joe Biden does not want to get his vice president killed or strangled.
PHILLIP: Yes.
NAVARRO: They're ending a good place.
ROGIN: So Philadelphia Eagles fans have been getting a bad rap lately. I was watching the show yesterday. Scott Jennings had some things to say about an incident at the last game.
Listen, the bad apple does not represent the whole bunch. We got to flip the script. It's a fact that every time Donald Trump wins the presidency, the Eagles win the Super Bowl. So far, so far. I don't want to jinx it.
O'LEARY: But it's only happened once.
ROGIN: Exactly. That's right.
Both once, one time. But we need to flip the script. We have a new mascot for the
Philadelphia Eagles. Can we get the picture on the screen? That's my daughter.
She represents all that's good about the Philadelphia Eagles and their support. So go birds.
O'LEARY: OK, you win tonight.
PHILLIP: The cutest Eagles fan I have ever seen. But before we go, we have one more moment that is not appropriate for your daughter, but it does warrant a nightcap. Sex at the Supreme Court. The question before the justices today was, should states be allowed to require porn sites to enforce an age limit? A Texas law does just that.
And the site argues that it's a violation of their free speech. The subject itself is no doubt an important debate. But there was one humorous, a little cringeworthy moment that happened today. It captured how the court is dealing with technology in real time. Here is conservative Justice Samuel Alito trying to understand what those sites offer these days compared to, you know, Hugh Hefner's creation back in the day.
(BEGIN AUDIO CLIP)
JUSTICE SAMUEL ALITO, ASSOCIATE JUSTICE OF THE U.S. SUPREME COURT: One of the parties here is the owner of Pornhub, right?
DEREK SHAFFER, ATTORNEY: Yes.
ALITO: And what percentage of the material on that is not obscene as to children?
SHAFFER: Well, Your Honor, if we're talking about the youngest minors, I would agree that most of it is. And that is how we read the law.
ALITO: But is it-- Is it like the old Playboy magazine? You have essays there by the modern day equivalent of Gord Vidal and William F. Buckley, Jr.?
SHAFFER: Not in that sense, but in the sense you have sexual wellness posts about women recovering from hysterectomies and how they can enjoy sex. That's on there.
(END AUDIO CLIP)
[23:00:05]
PHILLIP: Ana?
NAVARRO: No puedo. I don't understand. I really don't know why you're making me think of Alito.
ABDUL: I'm going to call on you.
NAVARRO: Now I understand why his wife is hanging on the flash upside down.
O'LEARY: If you were 16 and your mother caught you with a Playboy, I'm only reading the articles, Mom.
PHILLIP: I'm reading William F. Buckley. Also, a little scary for those of us who know the technology is going to come before the court a lot. Everyone, thank you very much. Thanks for watching "NewsNight." "Laura Coates Live" starts right now.
