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CNN NewsNight with Abby Phillip
Speaker Replaces Intel Chair With Trump Loyalist; Trump Posts Blacklist of White House Staffers He Wouldn't Hire; Rep. Nancy Pelosi (D-CA), Rep. Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez (D-NY) Skipping Trump Inauguration. "NewsNight" Tackles The Issue On Making America's Work Week Shorter; "NewsNight" Panelists Discuss Whether Los Angeles Should Lose 2028 Olympics Over City's Handling of Wildfires. Aired 10-11p ET
Aired January 16, 2025 - 22:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
[22:00:00]
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
ABBY PHILLIP, CNN ANCHOR (voice over): Tonight, resist or coexist? Nancy Pelosi becomes the latest to snub the inauguration as Democrats grapple with how to toe the Trump line.
Plus, the purge begins.
REP. JIM HIMES (D-CT): If you check this president, you're fired.
PHILLIP: The president-elect issues a blacklist and a Ukraine supporting Republican gets the boot.
Also, would a shorter work week help America's stress? Progressives in government think so, and they're demanding to be the Guinea pigs in the experiment.
And should Los Angeles lose the Olympics over its handling of the fires? The right wants the city to pass the baton.
Live at the table, Julie Roginsky, Pete Seat, Keith Boykin, T.W. Arrighi and Mark Sanford.
Americans with different perspectives aren't talking to each other, but here, they do.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PHILLIP (on camera): Good evening. I'm Abby Phillip in New York.
Let's get right to what America is talking about, the Purge, four days until Donald Trump returns to power, and that power is starting to take shape. First, there is drama on Capitol Hill after Speaker Mike Johnson ousted Mike Turner as head of the powerful House Intelligence Committee. He replaced him with a Trump loyalist. And in case you're not familiar, Turner supports Ukraine, he voted in favor of aid, he also voted to certify the 2020 election, which, of course, broke ranks with many MAGA lawmakers.
Now, the speaker insists that Trump played no role in the firings, but listen to the top Democrat on the committee about what this all portends.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
HIMES: Mike Turner knew more about, you know, the national security of the United States than any 20 members of Congress wander in these halls, so we lost a huge amount of experience there. But I also think, you know, it just -- it -- this place used to be considered a check and a balance on the power of the president. That's why we exist. And the message just went out that if you check this president, you're fired.
Does Rick stand up? Does he issue a subpoena? You know, what happened yesterday doesn't bode well for the job tenure of somebody who may do something that President Trump doesn't want them to do.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PHILLIP: Secondly, Trump himself has announced a blacklist of sorts, refusing to hire anybody who's associated with specific people, like Nikki Haley or Mike Pence, maybe not a surprise, or, in his words, quote, anyone suffering from Trump derangement syndrome.
Here's the thing though, he is hiring people who've been critical of him. In fact, many of them are already in his future cabinet.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
ROBERT F. KENNEDY JR., TRUMP'S NOMINEE FOR HHS SECRETARY: Well, I think the problem is number one, he's a bully. And, you know, I don't like bullies, and I don't think America -- you know, that's part of America's tradition.
REP. MIKE WALTZ (R-FL): Went to prep school, said he was in the military dodged the draft, insulted a POW in John McCain, a true hero.
If I'm sent into combat again, and I'm still in the reserves, I want to be sent in by a steady hand, a thoughtful hand, an experienced hand in the Oval Office, not a sound bite celebrity guy. It scares me.
SEN. MARCO RUBIO (R-FL): We're about to turn over the conservative movement to a person that has no ideas of any substance on the important issues, the nuclear codes of the United States to an erratic individual, and the conservative movement, someone who has spent a career sticking it to working people.
REP. ELISE STEFANIK (R-NY): I think he has been insulting to women.
I think this may be Mr. Trump's peak moment.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PHILLIP: A lot of those folks now in Trump's ranks. I think the key thing is that you have to come back around and maybe he might let you in.
But I want to start on Mike Turner, Governor Sanford, because he's known to be in Washington a serious guy. It's probably not good for him that he had a bunch of Democrats defending him today, but what does it tell you that Mike Johnson's doing here by kicking him out of the Intelligence Committee chairmanship?
FMR. GOV. MARK SANFORD (R-SC): That there's nothing more blinding than political ambition. That's what it tells you. And that's a very, very scary thought. So, I mean, Johnson's, in as much as I knew him, was a good guy. But he is going off the rails, I think, in a decision, and I think subsequent decisions that'll follow, in that he is, again, blinded by political ambition. And if that's what I got to do to stay in Trump's good graces, that's what I do.
You know, he insists on people coming and kissing the ring.
[22:05:00]
It will not work out well for those figures at the end of the day, but that's what he views as a ticket for admission right now.
JULIE ROGINSKY, DEMOCRATIC STATEGIST: I mean, let's be very clear. Congress is supposed to be a co-equal branch of government. They're not supposed to bend the knee to Donald Trump or to any president. And I can't imagine any other president, whether it's George Bush on the Republican side or Barack Obama or Joe Biden on the Democratic side, who would have gone to the speaker and said, I want you, in fact, I demand that you make the following sacrifices on my behalf.
And yet, Donald Trump has basically taken over the legislative branch. He's already taken over the Supreme Court by virtue of them doing whatever he wants for the most part. What does this say about the future of our nation and the constitution that we were actually supposed to abide by, which spells out very clearly that there are three co-equal branches of government, except that's something that Donald Trump will not countenance? And I think it's terrifying.
T.W. ARRIGHI, VICE PRESIDENT, PUSH DIGITAL GROUP: I'm going to quarrel with that just a bit. Look and I think this goes for Trump's appointments to his cabinet and to his administration. Time is really short. Trump didn't know really the levers of power in '16. He does now. But in Congress, and as we were just saying before, he -- so the chairman serves the pleasure of the speaker. It is not voted on by within. And there needs to be an alignment of what the top issues are and what the priorities are for any incoming Congress, if you only know you have two years, maybe four if we're really lucky to get everything done.
I take Mike Johnson at his word that it was his call. There's a number of issues with the intelligence community. Sure, Ukraine plays in, there's other ones. And I feel bad for Mike Turner and his staff. Like his staff was great. I know a lot of them personally. But I've also heard great things about Crawford. And I've heard he's a serious guy who is respected within the conference. He's a lower key guy. But I would not take this to the umpteenth, you know, decibel of panic. SANFORD: But I would humbly, again, disagree in that. Unlike other policy setting committees, where I completely would cede your point, we're in on Ways and Committee, Ways and Means Committee, if you want to run tax policy, you better make sure that the guy at the top is in a line, not only with the speaker, but with the president of the United States as well. But that is not what this committee is about. The intelligence gathering community ultimately is a bipartisan issue, and it is not driven as much by policy. It's driven by this overall need that we have as a civilization to know what's going on around the world.
PETE SEAT, FORMER WHITE HOUSE SPOKESMAN FOR PRESIDENT GEORGE W. BUSH: I think we're missing the real question here, though. We're asking, why did this happen? Did it come from Mar-a-Lago? Was it Mike Johnson making a unilateral decision? What I want to know is did he do more harm to the Trump agenda than help it? We know the margins are tight. You had someone in Mike Turner who was maybe a 70, 80 percent ally of Donald Trump. Is he now a 100 percent adversary? Where is he going to stand on the bills that are coming to the floor that will decide whether or not this majority continues in two years? That's what I want to know.
PHILLIP: That's interesting. I mean, I feel like Mike Turner, it was like message received, right? Like the message was, get in line, and I don't think he probably has much of a choice but to do just that.
KEITH BOYKIN, FORMER CLINTON WHITE HOUSE AIDE: Yes, I'm not as worried about that as you are, Pete. I think that, you know, what I've seen from the Republicans over the past is that no matter how much they may disagree with Trump, they will eventually, as Julie said, bend the knee if Trump wants them to do so.
So, there is no real sense of courage from these people. And, you know, there was a moment when Mike Turner was the guy who was willing to stand up to Trump on a couple of issues here and there, but he's going to do exactly what everyone else has done. And I don't think that's a problem.
I think the larger issue, though, is what this, says about democracy in general, and --
PHILLIP: Yes. Well, one of the things also, I mean, we were talking earlier about Trump and his government, and, of course, he gets to pick whoever he wants. But what's been emerging is that he put this out on his social media posts. He doesn't want anybody associated with a long list of people that he doesn't like. One of those people is Bill Barr.
And this is what caused that now infamous phone call to the Supreme Court justice, Samuel Alito, remember that, when he called Alito just before he had a case before the Supreme Court, by the way, to ask about someone who used to work for Bill Barr. He served -- this person served as the chief of staff for Bill Barr, who is now viewed as a traitor by Trump for refusing to go along with his efforts to overturn the loss in 2020. This is according to the Times. His bid for a permanent position has been stymied by Mr. Trump's advisers, who are vetting personnel for loyalty, according to three of the people knowledgeable about the situation.
Bill Barr, okay, just to emphasize before the whole 2020 election thing was an incredibly loyal soldier to Donald Trump. The idea that the people who worked for him then are not loyal to Trumpism is stunning.
ROGINSKY: Well that's what's so interesting about this right and this is a lesson for Mike Johnson and everybody else who, as I keep saying, bent the knee. You just mentioned three people that Trump has blacklisted, Bill Barr, Nikki Haley and Mike Pence.
[22:10:04]
Who was more loyal to this president than Bill Barr, Mike Pence and Nikki Haley in the first term? They used to -- I'm old enough to remember when they had cabinet meetings where they all stood up and extolled the virtue of Donald Trump as though, I mean, this is like going back to weirdo Caesar times, where they're sitting there extolling the virtue of the magnanimous leader, humiliating themselves in the process while doing it.
PHILLIP: Yes, we're going to get a lot more of that.
ROGINSKY: I know, but that's what's so ironic about this. All of a sudden, Trump is saying that they're dead to him. And I predict that, eventually, Pam Bondi will be dead to him. And I predict, eventually, maybe even Pete Hegseth will be dead to him, because there's no amount of loyalty --
BOYKIN: Definitely, Elon Musk will be dead to him.
ROGINSKY: Elon Musk will be dead to him, that will be before the end of next week. But the problem with Trump, and anybody who bends the knee to Trump, is they have to understand it's a temporary accommodation. So, why give up your pride? Why give up your position as a co-equal branch of government, as Mike Johnson has, to bend the knee to somebody who's going to eventually -- Mike Johnson will not be speaker for the totality of Trump's presidency. Eventually, Trump will be upset with him and kick him to the curb.
SANFORD: And I go back to where I started. There's nothing more blinding than political ambition.
ARRIGHI: Yes I just view that in a completely different way, respectfully. Look, again, we got two years to accomplish a ton of things across a broad swath of people. Donald Trump learned a lot in his first four years. He was incredibly disorganized going into his term in 2016. It is quite the opposite now. He has the right to pick whoever he wants, and whatever background and resume they have, that is up to his discretion.
I have not had the chance to talk to Grover Cleveland, who's been dead for a hundred-plus years. But I would gather if I could talk to him, he would probably have had the same concerns Donald Trump had, learning lessons from the first four years, where they failed, what they could have done better, and how they capitalize it now. And to just presume that because somebody has a more pro-Trump resume than somebody else, that they're automatically bad, or their job are not going to perform the function, that it is not proper.
ROGINSKY: What are you talking about? Everybody who's been into a position of power, Pete Hegseth, Tulsi Gabbard, all of these people, Sean Duffy, nice guys, I worked with some of them.
BOYKIN: Did you see what Pam Bondi said at her confirmation hearings? I mean, this is bigger than just one instance about Mike Turner. This is about democracy, as I was saying before. We've got like the whole Supreme Court, as Julie mentioned, is basically two-thirds of it is compromised by Donald Trump. We have a Congress that won't stand up to Donald Trump. We have a media, unfortunately, the free press, that doesn't stand up to Donald Trump. We have now people in positions of power in the business world who are kowtowing to Donald Trump. Who is going to be the voice to stand up to this guy when he actually knows how to use the levers of power, which he didn't know how to do the first time? I think that's what's so dangerous about the moment that we're in right now.
SEAT: Keith, you and I have both worked in the White House, and we know when you're hiring staff, you're not looking for people who oppose the president's agenda.
BOYKIN: Yes, it's the pleasure of the president --
SEAT: You're looking for people with policy expertise, with knowledge of the president, with knowledge of Congress, with knowledge of how the White House operates, and above all, and they do, there are, Marco Rubio has policy expertise, others.
BOYKIN: What policy expertise did Matt Gaetz have when he was nominated?
SEAT: And he's gone.
BOYKIN: But he was nominated.
SEAT: Are you going to live in the past?
BOYKIN: What policy expertise does Linda McMahon have to be the Department of Education?
ARRIGHI: She ran a huge company.
BOYKIN: She was the head of the World Wrestling Federation. That has nothing to do with --
ARRIGHI: What does Xavier Becerra have? What does Mayor Pete have?
BOYKIN: He was a member of Congress. He was a mayor of a city. You know, the idea you --
SEAT: The fifth largest in the state of Indiana, where I live. BOYKIN: You pick people who are only committed to being loyal to Donald Trump, which is what's so scary. And people who actually knew that Donald Trump was a threat to democracy because they said so before, and then they retreated on that when they realized it wasn't politically convenient.
PHILLIP: The other thing is that some of these people might actually very well be loyal to Donald Trump. It's just that they so happen to work under Donald Trump for one of the people that used to work for him, but now don't think that he's qualified to be president. So, it's just tough luck if you just ended up in, you know, the Trump administration.
SANFORD: I think the big issue here is we're morphing. In other words, I think the president of the United States has every right, just as I did when I was governor, to pick your cabinet, your team. That does not mean I get to pick folks in the House and Senate. I mean, it's a different body, to your earlier point. And that's where I think we're missing it.
PHILLIP: All right. Everyone, stick around.
Coming up next for us, Nancy Pelosi and Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez become the latest Democrats to skip the inauguration. The party is grappling with the new Trump era. We'll debate the wisdom of that next.
Plus, a new proposal before Congress to shorten the work week, and that gets roundly mocked. We'll tell you why.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[22:15:00]
PHILLIP: Tonight, high profile Democrats are continuing to show defiance toward that incoming Trump administration. Former House Speaker Nancy Pelosi is joining Michelle Obama in skipping the inauguration. Also, Congresswoman Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez, she's doing the same. They are citing, or she is citing, safety and logistical chaos at the event for why she won't go.
The New York Times framed it well. Are Democrats supposed to resist or co-exist in this new Trump era?
Keith, right decision, wrong decision for those who are skipping to not go?
BOYKIN: Well, I won't be there. I don't have any obligation to be there. I won't even be there.
PHILLIP: I don't think they were expecting that.
BOYKIN: No one was expecting me to be there. And probably really happy that I won't be there, actually, because I won't be happy if I were there. But I'm going to be commemorating Dr. Martin Luther King Day on Monday, not Donald Trump's inauguration. [22:20:00]
Donald Trump is a twice impeached convicted felon and insurrectionist who does not belong in the White House, and I will not normalize him. I don't have any respect for the people who do normalize him. I know some people have a duty to do so. Joe Biden has to be there. Kamala Harris has to be there. Hakeem Jeffries has to be there. Anyone who doesn't have to be there, don't go. And I have no problem if you don't go. This is America. Donald Trump didn't even show up for Joe Biden's inauguration when he was supposed to be contributing to a peaceful transfer of power. That says everything about where we are as a country.
SEAT: So, you put it on the record tonight, you don't have respect for 50-plus percent of the American people.
BOYKIN: I don't have respect for -- yes, I don't have respect for the people who support -- I don't care, I don't have respect for the people who put a twice impeached convicted felon insurrection into the White House, period. I don't care. That's my opinion. I have the right to that opinion just, as they have the right to elect him. I have the right to say that it is the wrong thing to do.
SEAT: My take is, at the end of the day, it doesn't matter who's there, Donald Trump will be sworn in as president at noon on Monday.
What I find rich in all this is Nancy Pelosi demands the respect of being called speaker emerita, but she can't be bothered to respect the office of the presidency and show up. It doesn't matter who is swearing that oath. It is about the office of the presidency.
BOYKIN: It does matter who takes that oath. It does matter who takes that oath. This man is not just an ordinary person, unlike the other 46 presidents in our country. This man is a twice impeached convicted felon who has been adjudicated for sexual assault. This guy is a guy who tried to overthrow the election in 2020. This is not a normal election, and we should not normalize this guy.
If you have to show up, go. I don't have any problem if you choose to do so. But I do have a problem with the idea that Democrats want to continue to normalize something that should not be normalized. Yes, we should resist and not --
PHILLIP: I also have a hard time with a lot of outrage being directed at the Nancy Pelosis of the world when, honestly, to Keith's point, the one guy who really should have been there that one time didn't show up. I just don't think that there's a lot of outrage to be given there. Maybe it's unfortunate, but I think you're right.
SEAT: But that's the same whataboutism that Democrats always complain about Donald Trump and Republicans.
BOYKIN: He's the president of the United States of America.
SEAT: And she was speaker of the U.S. House. BOYKIN: The president of the United States -- she's not the speaker anymore. She was the former Speaker. And she attended Trump's inauguration.
PHILLIP: And also let me just add one more thing. Nancy Pelosi's husband was bashed in the head with a hammer.
BOYKIN: Thank you.
PHILLIP: And Donald Trump joked about it. He mocked him for it. So, there are some personal reasons. And as I'm sure you can imagine why she doesn't feel any obligation to be gracious in this particular moment. Her family's life was put at risk.
SANFORD: But I think the advantage to doing so, though, aside from the issue of this peaceful transition of power, which is an incredibly important as an institutional transition, it's just the notion of being the bigger of two people. I think it sends an incredibly powerful message. If somebody may have slighted you, the Bible talks about turning the other cheek, you just say, you know what? I don't particularly like you, but I believe in our process, and I'm going to show up.
(CROSSTALKS)
SANFORD: No, but there's a power in that.
(CROSSTALKS)
ARRIGHI: I want to make a quick point. First of all, I have deep respect for all of you, and I don't particularly care how you voted. And number one, I'm going to take Nancy Pelosi at her word. She obviously went through a bad fall, she's older, it's going to be incredibly cold, I completely understand.
And, look, AOC is missing a golden opportunity here by not going. She would be going viral on Blueanon Twitter to the hilt with all of her reactions and her facial expressions during his speech. He'd be brilliant for her, great raising of money. But, look, I understand that people have their critiques and concerns about Donald Trump, as you articulated, but I would also say those impeachments, those trials, they played out in the court of public opinion, which were the voters and many of them thought they were a sham. And the impeachments were a sham. And the January 6th trial was politicized when Jim Banks and Jim Jordan refused to be put there.
BOYKIN: 57 members, a bipartisan majority, 57 members of the United States Senate voted to convict Donald Trump, Republicans and Democrats. Regardless of the fact he didn't meet the constitutional standard, that's a bipartisan majority of the United States Senate. Republicans and Democrats thought that he should be convicted for his role in the insurrection. You can't tell me that was just a lie.
ARRIGHI: But impeachment is a higher bar (INAUDIBLE).
PHILLIP: Maybe not turning of the other cheek, but on the Democrats who are trying to figure out how to navigate this you got a bunch of them, mayors, governors, et cetera, basically sending a signal to Trump that they are willing to extend some kind of olive branch. Listen.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
GOV. GAVIN NEWSOM (D-CA): I call for him to come out, take a look for himself. What we want to do in the spirit of an open hand, not a closed fist. He's the president-elect. I respect the office.
MAYOR KAREN BASS (D-LOS ANGELES, CA): I have talked to key members of the incoming administration.
[22:25:00]
He has absolutely been invited. He has been invited by Governor Newsom, Supervisor Barger, myself, and it is our hope that he will come to Los Angeles shortly after the inauguration.
GOV. GRETCHEN WHITMER (D-MI): Every one of us swore an oath to the people we serve. And the people expect us to find common ground, especially when it comes to lowering costs, creating good paying manufacturing jobs, boosting research and innovation and cutting red tape.
Now, I don't want to pretend we're always going to agree, but I will always seek collaboration first.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PHILLIP: So, they're doing it.
ROGINSKY: I got to tell you, I so disagree with this approach. I understand why Newsom's doing it. I understand why Karen Bass is doing it. They're desperate, and they understand that Trump needs them, again, to bend the knee and kiss the ring in order to get that federal aid. I get it. It's kind of disgraceful that he's making them go through this process, but that's Donald Trump.
For members of Congress, especially, who don't need to be there, and you're absolutely right, they don't need to be there, Donald Trump has shattered every norm in the book. And Republicans, MAGA Republicans on the Hill, decided that they were going to obstruct at every opportunity that they had whenever a Democrat was in power. I'm still, again, old enough to remember when Mitch McConnell said his priority was to make Barack Obama a one term president. He failed at it, but he really tried.
And so my attitude now is, you guys can't come around saying, oh my God, the norms, the norms, this is so inappropriate, oh my God, he's the president of the United States. You just supported Donald Trump. He broke every single norm in the book. And any Democrat that doesn't know how to fight fire with fire, any Democrat that still pretends this is Robert Byrd's old Senate, where everybody gets together and kumbayas, is on drugs because it's over. Trump broke it. And Democrats have to understand this is the new reality that they live in. And they have to start bringing a knife to a knife fight and stop begging for Republicans to work in a bipartisan way to advance the common good because the bipartisan way that advances the common good for Donald Trump is that you have to bend the knee. There is no bipartisanship other than --
SEAT: Well, this election showed that they're not -- that voters aren't looking for a bipartisan way. There's a trifecta of Republican leadership.
ROGINSKY: This election showed that people were worried about the price of eggs. Give me a break. And now it's up to Donald Trump.
SEAT: Who broke the economy? Guess what? Whose fault was it?
ROGINSKY: The economy actually was doing quite well.
SEAT: Joseph Robinette Biden and Kamala Harris.
ROGINSKY: No. Let me be very clear. It is on. You guys won everything. You're absolutely right. It is on you to lower prices, to get the price of eggs down, to get the price of bacon down, and to get the price of apples down, while also deporting 20, 40 million people, however many people Donald Trump promises to deport.
BOYKIN: And imposing tariffs.
ROGINSKY: Yes, and imposing tariffs. God bless. Go to town. We don't have to participate. You have the majority.
SEAT: It's fine, we'll get it done with or without you.
ROGINSKY: Fantastic.
SEAT: Probably faster without --
ROGINSKY: Great. Get it done, and then the rest of us will sit there laughing, drinking our martinis as you deport people, impose tariffs and also think that you're going to bring prices down, can't wait.
PHILLIP: I also find that -- I do think that -- and many people have observed this, but it does seem like when Republicans win elections, they want Democrats to respect the other side. When Democrats win elections, you're Ron DeSantis and you're running on destroying the left in the United States of America. There's not -- it's not a reciprocal thing.
ARRIGHI: Well, I think -- well, first of all, A, Donald Trump won, yes, in part, because of the economy, B, because they thought that Joe Biden projected weakness, was too old, was getting us into wars around the world, thought that government spending was out of control, was upset at his social agenda. There was a whole host of reasons. Also, the fact that, you know, Biden hung on too long, and everyone knew he was diminished, and they foisted him on the American people. They also were just done with the B.S. of politics. I think everyone would like bipartisanship at some level. So, I don't particularly think that's a huge deal.
And also I think a lot of people on the right would say that the Democrats were never fair to Donald Trump, that they ceaselessly bashed him for his entire existence in the press, in Congress, stifled everything he tried to do and called him a threat to democracy and Hitler, which is ahistorical and completely wrong.
BOYKIN: I thought you went way off track here. I just want to say one thing. Pam Bondi, Donald Trump's nominee for attorney general, yesterday in a confirmation hearing, refused to acknowledge that Donald Trump lost the 2020 election.
ARRIGHI: She said Joe Biden was the duly elected president of the United States.
BOYKIN: No, but that could mean that he got there some other way. She refused to acknowledge that he lost. And that's a pattern among Trump Republicans. And you cannot tell me that's equivalent to anything Democrats have ever done, in any position of responsibility.
ARRIGHI: I feel like we're really digging deep. Duly elected means he won.
BOYKIN: No, it means she stretched to come up with that.
ARRIGHI: That's literally what it is.
PHILLIP: Everyone hang tight.
Coming up next, would you like a 32-hour work week? I mean, wouldn't we all? Well, you could have one. Some progressive health staffers are asking for just that. And they're getting mocked for it. We'll discuss that next.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[22:30:00]
ABBY PHILLIP, CNN ANCHOR: Should America's work week be shorter? Are we too stressed? Probably. And if you ask progressive staffers on Capitol Hill, the answer is a resounding yes. So, they are asking Congress to give them a 32-hour work week -- at least part of the time.
Even Bernie Sanders has actually supported this idea nationally, but as you can imagine, when Congress is about as popular as a visit to the dentist, they are getting a lot of heat for this. One democratic consultant responded to this saying, "LOL, read the room guys."
To be fair to them, let me just explain this. They're basically saying you got staffers in Washington, staffers in the district. [22:35:00]
When the member is in the district, staffers in Washington work 32 hours that week. When the -- when the member is in Washington, the district staffers work 32 hours a week. That's the deal. They also said in a post, "A 32-hour work week shouldn't be a special
perk for government employees. We want to set up an example nationwide that it doesn't just maintain productivity, but it can increase it. Don't buy it. Try it out. If the quality or amount of work your staff does decreases, we stand corrected." Smart idea?
T.W. ARRIGHI, VICE PRESIDENT, PUSH DIGITAL GROUP: No. I worked for three different members on Capitol Hill. I loved my experience. There was a great way to serve the people and I threw myself in the job. But I want to talk to the progressive staffers for a second. Come here for a second. I want to tell you something.
I am with you. I will fight with you. I think you work way too much. Forty hours is crazy, 32 bananas. I want it zero, all right? I'll be on Capitol Hill tomorrow. So, let's get something going, all right? I think Pelosi's raise she gave you the other day, look, we all know you just wanted the title to impress your friends, right? So, let's cut the baloney.
UNKNOWN: Is this your hot take?
ARRIGHI: That is not my hot take. Oh, one other thing -- constituent services. To hell with it. Everyone walking off a construction site after a long week or out of the firehouse after 12 days, all right, is going to totally get what you're saying, that you work too hard in Washington. So, I'm with you, I'll see you tomorrow. Ready for the sit-in.
PHILLIP: And he makes the point that regular people who are coming home after working all night and they've been working 60 hours on two jobs, they hear this and they're like, what?
JULIE ROGINSKY, DEMOCRATIC STRATEGIST: I don't know which members of Congress they're working for because any member of Congress that I ever worked for would laugh me out of the room if I wanted to work 40 hours a week. They'd be saying, we're calling you at 11 o'clock at night or midnight. Why aren't you picking up the phone?
I mean, are they suggesting -- and this is purely for people who work on the Hill. Are you really suggesting, my friends on the Hill, I will also speak to you directly, that when your member calls you at eight or 9 o'clock at night, you're going to say I'm off the clock because I've already clocked in my 32 hours. I'm not going to take that call if somebody's social security check is lost, for example. Are you going to say sorry? I'm not 30 --
I mean, you don't go into government, and we all did it, because we love government. We want to help people. If you want to make money, go work on Wall Street. You'll also work crazy hours, but at least you'll get rich. If you don't want to work that hard, find something else to do.
But the reality is public service is public service. And it's a privilege and it's a service. And I know the hours are really awful, which is why if you don't like them, you got to go somewhere else. But you're doing it because they're helping people. PHILLIP: Congressman, are these staffers working too hard? Should
there be some accommodations? Does this make sense to you?
MARK SANFORD (R) FORMER SOUTH CAROLINA GOVERNOR: No. I mean, the irony is, I mean, yeah, I was in Congress twice and we worked really hard and the team worked really hard. But there's an irony in what we just talked about earlier in this show on Trump being able to pick his own teammates. And therefore, you have a short window, just 24 months, maybe 48 months.
Well, any member of Congress has just 24 months, best case. But really, it's about one year because you go into re-elect in the second year. It's a very short window. And so, all-hands-on deck, everybody's got to push hard.
To your point, whether it's a social security check or I've gotten calls where people had mosquitoes in the ditch, I can't fix that. But I know somebody who can. I mean, there is an unrelenting list of incoming queries and calls and requests and people got expected to be here right now.
PHILLIP: Yeah. So -- so, on the the broader issue, Keith, I mean, okay, Capitol Hill, honestly, I just think -- let's put this conversation away. Nobody wants congressional staffers to say they are not willing to work for the American people. But for the rest of the American people, this is an idea, a real idea. Bernie Sanders wants this to happen in the same way that unions got weekends and 40-hour work weeks. Thirty-two-hour work weeks, is that potentially the future? Could it make us more productive?
KEITH BOYKIN, FORMER CLINTON WHITE HOUSE AIDE: Well, I mean, I wrote a book called "Quitting" where I talked about how people can quit their jobs and lead more productive lives and do whatever they want to create their own lifestyle design. But at the same time, I also understand that it depends on the industry. It depends on the job. It depends on the career.
And it is not healthy for us to work as much as we do in this country. But I don't think that, obviously, the best proposals from members of Congress to be leading the way in terms of their staff. Let the workplace decide it. Let the market decide it.
Because people will find out that they are more productive in some instances when they don't find themselves overworked, when they do have a chance to have a vacation, when they have a time for sick leave, paid sick leave, and take care of their family.
So, all those things are important. But in terms of -- just getting back to the Congress thing, I just want to say something because I said this before. Ella Baker, the famous civil rights activist, said, "We who believe in freedom cannot rest until it comes."
We are at a moment of crisis in America. And for those who are in the Progressive Caucus or in the Democratic Party, this is not the time to rest. This is the time to work our butts off so we can win.
[22:40:00]
PHILLIP: Pete?
PETE SEAT, FORMER WH SPOKESPERSON FOR PRESIDENT GEORGE W. BUSH: Yeah, I go back to that tweet or ex-post or whatever it was that you showed. You can't read the room. Democrats couldn't read the room during this election and understand what Americans really cared about. And now you have the staffers who surround those people who can't read the room.
A normal person watching this and hearing this for the first time either now or tomorrow is going to say Congress can't even do their job in 40 hours a week. How do we expect them to do it in 32 hours a week? It's absolutely absurd.
And I've had --no offense to those who have worked on the Hill, I've had for years of beef with the Capitol Hill martyrs who always want to tell you how they were chained to a desk until 2 A.M. right before Christmas to get the big vote.
They never miss a 4 P.M. cocktail happy hour, but that one night they were there late because they didn't do anything for the other 11 months. And now it's like, oh, but we got to cut our hours back. It's absolutely absurd.
PHILLIP: Here's what I think. They should work five days a week. You should pay them more. And let's get some professionalism in Congress and expect results. I don't think you can expect Congress to do much if they're working three days a week and we don't want to pay them because it's unpopular to pay people to do public service. Pay people to do public service.
SEAT: But in fairness, they're working in the district. think that's inaccurate to say they're only working three days a week.
PHILLIP: No, I'm talking about -- I'm not even talking about the -- I think staffers absolutely should be paid. Members, I think, you know, we should stop treating this as like something you can only do if you have like a few million in the bank and some free time. This is a job.
ARRIGHI: I agree. I want to just make a quick note. Staffer pay did increase recently. Members paid in but staffer pay did.
PHILLIP: Yeah. And the member pay increase was so controversial.
ARRIGHI: No, I totally I totally get it. But I also want to make a point, look, working on Capitol Hill was incredibly fun, incredibly rewarding, incredibly hard. I wouldn't trade it for anything and anybody watching who is considering it, try it. It's lovely. It's a great service to your nation.
But I also want to just make a point that a lot of these staffers also in their on-years, deployed to the state and work in the states. So, I spent a lot of time in Kansas, in Orange County, California and elsewhere working for my bosses. So, you get experience on the campaign side, but it's also more work that you're not getting paid for with your salary, but other money. PHILLIP: Yeah. Well, everyone, hang on. Coming up next, in the wake
of a deadly wildfire in California, some of the -- on the right say the Los Angeles doesn't even deserve to host the 2028 Olympics. Our panel will debate the future of that, next.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[22:47:02]
PHILLIP: Should Los Angeles lose the 2028 Olympics over the city's handling of those wildfires? Well, some in the MAGA movement think that they should.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
CHARLIE KIRK, HOST, "THE CHARLIE KIRK" SHOW: The Olympics could go down as one of the great tragedies in world history. Well, there's not going to be running water. Liberals are completely incapable of governing cities. Keep it in America. You go to Miami. You go to Dallas. You go to some other well-run city.
ROB FINNERTY, NEWMAX HOST: I'm not convinced that -- that California can manage the Olympics, the World Cup, and the Super Bowl, all within the year of each other.
REP. JIM JORDAN (R) OHIO: Yeah, especially when they're spending time quote, "Trump-proofing" their state. I do -- I do think the American people rightly see how poorly that state is being run, how poorly this -- these tragic fires have been -- have been handled.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PHILLIP: Well, the incoming president, Donald Trump, doesn't agree that despite Trump's criticism of Gavin Newsom and Karen Bass, he actually has been standing by the city hosting the games.
According to "Axios", Trump met with top organizers this week vowing, quote, "These are America's Olympics." These are more than just than ever to - "these are more important than ever," excuse me, " -- to L.A, and I'm going to be supportive in every way possible and make them the greatest games."
What is so striking to me about this is that it's like, these MAGA types actually want to be more vindictive and short-sighted than -- Donald Trump?
SEAT: Well, Donald Trump, remember, if you roll back the tape even further, takes credit for L.A. being awarded the Olympics.
PHILLIP: Right.
SEAT: He made a call that even the organizers agree was decisive when he was president-elect. So, he was -- he was critical to getting it. And when he went there in 2020 to Beverly Hills, he met with the organizing committee, he made a joke and he said, oh, are you going to remember me in 2028? Are you going to save me a seat? So, of course, he would have been a former president by then in his
mind, having been re-elected. And here we are now, not only did he get the Olympics there, but he will be president when the Olympics are there. And I think he's going to do everything to make sure there's no conversation about moving it.
PHILLIP: I mean, I forget who it was that said this, but why are we talking about this? And the answer is because there are some people, I guess, on the right who think that this is something they want to put into the atmosphere.
ROGINSKY: Can I just say this to Charlie Kirk? The Holocaust is one of the great tragedies -- world history.
UNKNOWN: Right.
ROGINSKY: L.A. is not one of the great tragedies -- world history. Give me a break. And it's so, I mean, it's so un-American because where do they think the Olympic Committee is going to move these games? They're not moving them to Houston. They're not moving them to Dallas or to Jim Jordan's district in Ohio, no matter how much you might want them.
I don't know what the backup plan is, but there is no backup plan. They're going to be in L.A. And if they're not going to be in L.A., they're not going to be in the United States. But yet they're so vindictive against Gavin Newsom and against Karen Bass, they'd rather lose the economic impetus of the Olympics.
PHILLIP: I do want to ask you, though, I mean, related to this, right, Mike Johnson, the speaker, he was talking about conditioning aid to the state for wildfires and the recovery act.
[22:50:06]
I mean, you're from a state that --
SANFORD: I don't think that will pan out. I mean, the California delegation is a big delegation. They have political might in D.C.
PHILLIP: But what does it say that that would even come up especially after his own state has been hit by a hurricane?
SANFORD: Again, it's -- it's politics today. I mean, I think that the more interesting questions -- will it be recalls on the mayor or on the governor? I think that's an interesting question. Whether the Olympics is going to change is crazy. To your point, both mathematically, physically and politically, they can't change, they're going to be there.
PHILLIP: It's not vindictiveness (inaudible)?
ARRIGHI: Well, I think two things can be true at the same time. I mean, I think you can criticize the -- the way L.A. is run and the state of California is run. You can criticize fire mitigation. You can criticize water management. And also say, well, I hope that doesn't impact this global event happening in the city if some other department's cut that somehow has something to do with the Olympic.
But I get it. But the Olympic Committee has far more control over a lot of these things than just the city. And also, the Olympics will be taking place not just in the city of L.A., not just the state of California. They're going to be all over the place. And also, Donald Trump has a personal connection to L.A. He has a golf course there, he visits there a ton, he's owned properties there. So, it's also heartfelt to him as much as it is getting real.
PHILLIP: Let me let Keith in because we got to go.
BOYKIN: Listen, I just want to say I live in Los Angeles. I was there the past two weeks inhaling the smoke from the fires. And I know that the people there are suffering still. And it's sad and disgusting to me that people from the Republican Party, from Donald Trump, Elon Musk and Rick Caruso and others have been trying to politicize this tragedy at a time when people actually need help, they need assistance, they need food and housing and shelter. They don't need to have outsiders coming in and yelling at them about what the city is doing wrong.
PHILLIP: All right, everyone, stay with me. A quick note on last night's show. A guest said that Hillary Clinton and Liz Cheney went to New York to hunt Nazis, which I immediately challenged. He also said he was referring to some Democrats comparing Donald Trump's Madison Square Garden rally held in late October to that infamous 1939 Nazi rally at the same venue.
Obviously, that is false. It did not happen. Just wanted to point that out. Coming up next, the panel gives us their night caps, including one from a Democrat arguing the Democrats haven't learned their lessons.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(22:57:03]
PHILLIP: We're back and it's time for the "NewsNight" cap. You each have 30 seconds to say your piece. Pete, you are up.
SEAT: Well, fellow fans of my beloved Chicago Cubs are gathering in the Windy City this weekend for the annual Cubs Convention. I typically go, but I'm not there this year. It's always a fun event, but this is especially an important one for folks like me who grew up watching the Cubs on WGN and singing a daily duet with Harry Carey after we got home from school because Slammin' Sammy Sosa is going to be in the lineup, figuratively speaking.
He will be there for the first time in years because he did, at the end of last year, apologize for mistakes that he made in his heyday. He came clean. The Ricketts family and the Cubs have embraced him. Maybe the Hall of Fame is next.
ROGINSKY: Wow.
UNKNOWN: Agree.
PHILLIP: Go ahead.
ROGINSKY: All right, my fellow Dems, listen to me. You have taken all the wrong lessons from this election. You think because these conspiracy theories worked on the right, that you need to move closer to them? I'm talking about something like the Laken Riley Act, where you think that this is somehow something that you have to do now. You don't.
Learn how to change hearts and minds. Learn how to fight. Stop moving the Overton window to the right. It's not going to work for you. We have to learn how to fight. We have to learn to stand up for our values and communicate them better to voters.
PHILLIP: All right, Mark.
SANFORD: I want to be Debbie Downer. I want to talk about the irony and the ridiculousness of something like the President's appointment to Greece on the ambassadorial side, some other funnies, but there's something very, very serious that's really bugging me.
And that is, when Trump talks about Greenland as he has, when he talks about the Panama Canal, when he talks about Canada, and I talk to other Republicans and say, well, it's kind of funny, or we might get leverage with the Chinese, or something other on that category, it's wrong. It's destructive.
And I think that every Republican out there needs to really speak up on this because after World War II, we had a global system built on the sovereignty of a nation's borders. And if we don't speak up, we're sending a message to China with regard to Taiwan, we're sending a message to Russia with regard to Ukraine, and a host of other places. We need to speak up.
PHILLIP: All right. I'm going to put you and Scott Jennings at the table next time around. Go ahead, Keith.
BOYKIN: Last year, I was on this show and Nancy Mace was sitting right here and she refused to call Kamala Harris by her correct name. Then afterwards, she went on Twitter and called me a boy. And so now this week, she's suddenly upset that Jasmine Crockett used the word child, which was not even a direct reference to her in the conversation that they had in the House Oversight Committee. So, I have two words for Nancy Mace, and it's not directed at you, Nancy. Child please.
PHILLIP: All right, T.W.
ARRIGHI: A hundred and six years ago, prohibition became the law of the land and today abstinence from alcohol is growing in popularity, which is welcome news to a lot of people who struggle with alcohol and I support that, even as someone who drinks willingly and excitedly.
[23:00:00]
But what I worry about is, I was -- a couple weeks ago at Fordham, my alma mater, and I went to a local bar that was empty on a game day. I talked to the bartender and he says, all these bars are going to close down because no one's coming and that's really scary because we are battling a loneliness epidemic and if we don't fix it soon, it's a problem for party more.
PHILLIP: All right. That's a message for you tonight at home. Everyone, thank you, and thank you very much for watching "NewsNight". "Laura Coates Live" starts right now.
