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CNN NewsNight with Abby Phillip
Liberal Judge Leads Wisconsin Supreme Court Race; CNN Projects Liberals Keep Majority On Wisconsin Supreme Court; Conservative Judge Concedes Wisconsin Race, Tells Upset Supporters, You've Got To Accept the Results. Aired 10-11p ET
Aired April 01, 2025 - 22:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
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[22:00:00]
JAKE TAPPER, CNN HOST: What a night. It is shaping up to be a fascinating race in Wisconsin as the Democratic-backed candidate currently leads over the Trump and Elon Musk-endorsed conservative in that state's Supreme Court race.
Our reporters are standing by in Wisconsin. First, we go to Arlette Saenz, who's at the headquarters of Judge Susan Crawford, the liberal candidate in Madison, Wisconsin. Arlette are they feeling as this -- is this going to be a long night? What are they projecting?
ARLETTE SAENZ, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well just after polls close here, a campaign official had told me that they were bracing for the potential that this could be a long night. But they are seeing some signs that they believe are good signs on their side here in this race. I had asked a campaign official about the fact that some ballots had either or some polling locations in Milwaukee had either run out of ballots, or were low on ballots, and they said that's particularly a good sign. The Crawford campaign has been watching Milwaukee County as well as Dane County here where we are, where the state capital, is very closely is since those are areas that typically have high Democratic turnout.
Now, we're here at the campaign headquarters where people have started to trickle in. I can tell you a lot of people are paying attention to the CNN's race updates on the screen, trying to see what all they can learn in this race that's going to be critical here in the battleground state of Wisconsin.
TAPPER: All right, Arlette, thanks so much.
And we have a key race alert for you right now.
With more votes coming in, the liberal judge from Dane County, the Madison, Wisconsin area, Judge Susan Crawford is in the lead with 57.7 percent of the vote. She is leading the conservative judge from Waukesha County, Brad Schimel, who has 42.3 percent of the vote. Judge Crawford with a 181,972-vote lead. This is with more than half the vote in, 51 percent of the estimated vote in. And, John King, right now, again, 52 percent now in the last five seconds, we updated it. But the lead narrowed a little from 181,000 to 175,000. Again, how much of this lead are we to believe is sustainable as the other 48 percent comes in?
JOHN KING, CNN CHIEF NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: When you're in a 50-50 battleground state, you just -- that's a healthy lead. You're right, it just came down from 180-something, but when you get to there, you're 52 percent. So, you're looking at the map right now and you're thinking, you know, what Schimel will have to do to make this up, and then you're also saying that where is she going to get even more?
So, the first thing you do is you look where do the people live, right? That's where you get the most votes. It's pretty simple. We make politics overcomplicated sometimes. It's about arithmetic, right? So, Milwaukee is the largest population right there. You've only got two thirds of the votes in, and she's running it up, right. So, if you're sitting in Crawford campaign headquarters, you're saying, we're going to get more here, right?
There's no guarantee the margin stays just like that, but pretty safe bet, the Democrat's going to keep winning by a large amount. So, that's checkbox number one. How are we doing? We have a good trajectory.
Then you go to the second largest county in the state, that's Dane County. Again, you have almost 40 percent of the votes still to be counted. That's a thumping, right? Brad Schimel is getting shellacked in Madison, in the suburbs around it. So, you know, in the Crawford campaign, you're saying check. Why do I say that? Because you've got 175,000-vote lead and in the two largest counties in the state, there's still a lot of votes to come in. And so that's a trend line that you think you're going to gain.
If we didn't, you know -- so then you're looking -- we have no votes at all in these gray areas. Most of them are Republican areas. That's why in the Schimel campaign headquarters are saying, slow down, everybody. Let's see the rural vote when it comes in.
TAPPER: It's still about a million votes to count.
KING: Yes, right, because that's Donald Trump's wheelhouse, right? That's the conservative and the Republican wheelhouse is small town America, rural America. So, the Schimel campaign would say, slow down, don't make any projections.
However, then you come into the other places. So, the third largest county in the state is where Brad Schimel calls home. He's the judge here. He's winning by 17 points. That's healthy, 61 percent. If you're trying to close 175,000 vote lead, I would argue you need to stretch that out as the rest of that comes in. And as you go later into the night, you tend to be counting Election Day voting. That's where conservatives and Republicans tend to do better. So, again, if you're having conservative math, conservative meaning safe, not picking a political party, let's give him a chance.
[22:05:02]
Let's see that number get up to 75 percent or more and see. When we get there, does he change the math there? But when you pull out and look at the big map, 174,000 votes ahead with a lot of votes still out in Milwaukee and Madison, you're confident as a Democrat.
I just want to give you one other example why you're confident, liberal candidate, again, the purple is they don't run technically as partisans. They run as nonpartisan even. Here's another way to look at this. So, let's look at counties Donald Trump won just five months ago. Anywhere you see color, light purple or dark purple is a county Donald Trump won five months ago, one, two, three, four, five, six. The liberal candidate in this judicial race is winning six counties that Donald Trump carried just five months ago. So, more votes out in Milwaukee, more votes out in Madison and you at the moment are winning six counties Donald Trump carried five months ago.
So, if you are Susan Crawford with 174,000 in change lead, you have every right to be checking your speech. I'd still wait, get to 51 in a battleground state like Wisconsin, being careful is the smartest thing to do, but this map right now is filling it in a way where she has every right to be confident.
TAPPER: What other -- what about the other -- some of the other counties around Milwaukee that you thought you talked about as being really important because in terms of margins?
KING: Right. So, again, Ozaukee County, it's Milwaukee and the WOW is what they call it, Washington, Waukesha, and Ozaukee. So --
TAPPER: And it's not just winning. It's how much they win by.
KING: It's not just winning. So, you look at here, that's essentially a dead heat, right, 51-50, you know, 51-49 if you don't round right there, about half of the vote in. So, we're not there yet. Let's finish it up.
But this is where we are right now. So let's just go back five months ago to the presidential race in Ozaukee County, it's ten points, right? So, again, if you're Crawford, you are running much more competitive than Kamala Harris did just five months ago in a very important suburban area, which leans Republican. It leans Republican, right?
So, let's -- it's an excellent question. Let's come back and do another one. We come back to where we are, fill out, I just want to keep checking that, 173, so down a little bit, down a little bit, but still pretty large. So, then you come up here and you come over here to Washington County. I said, you know, Waukesha, Ozaukee and Washington, the WOW counties around Milwaukee. So, what do we have here? Schimel at 67 percent, looks like a much bigger margin there, right? This is a more Republican, suburban, and then ex-urban areas. You move out, let's say you look at that right there, that's 33 points if you look at it. So, you think that's big.
Let's just go back and check. Five months ago in the presidential race, you come back to that same county and it's a little bit more Trump -- again, Trump doing better five months ago than Schimel is doing right now. Not by as big a margin as you see in some of the other places, but the margins everywhere matter.
So, you come back to this map, you bring it up again, you look, I just want to come on out the statewide and look at it. And so you're seeing the gray areas right here, Jake. That's where you would have conservative votes. But when you see 172,000 in a battleground state like Wisconsin, knowing there are still votes out in Dane County, that's Madison, and Milwaukee County, a Democrat has every reason to be thinking or a liberal candidate, in her case, every reason to be thinking the math looks good.
TAPPER: Indeed, John, because we now have a major projection to make.
CNN projects that the liberal judge from Dane County, Judge Susan Crawford, will win the Wisconsin Supreme Court race, keeping control of the court in the hands of liberal judges and defeating conservative Judge Brad Schimel, who had the backing of President Trump, Elon Musk, and Republicans.
Crawford's win gives her supporters in the Democratic Party a significant victory after they worked to turn this contest into a referendum on both President Trump and Elon Musk, who had deep involvement in this race. Democrats obviously trying to harness voter anger about Musk's role in slashing the federal government and about the Trump administration in general.
Let us go to Arlette Saenz, who is in -- I can tell she's in Madison at Crawford headquarters. Arlette, obviously a lot of cheers there at CNN's projection.
SAENZ: Yes. I can tell you that as soon as you projected this on air, the crowd here at the Crawford campaign headquarters in Madison just erupted out into chairs. They have been waiting for these results to come in all night and are finally getting that good news that many volunteers and campaign workers have worked for in this election.
Of course, this will now, as CNN is projecting the race that Susan Crawford, the liberal candidate, will defeat the conservative candidate. This is now ensuring that the liberal majority on the state Supreme Court will stay in control.
It comes at a time when there's a lot of hot button issues that could come before the court, things like abortion rights and congressional maps as well. But it also comes as Crawford and her Democratic allies have really sought to turn this campaign into a referendum of Elon Musk. I can tell you crisscrossing the state over the past week.
[22:10:01]
That is something that we repeatedly heard from Crawford at each of her campaign events, saying that Musk involvement in the race should be concerning for voters. And it seems that, at least in these results that are starting to come in tonight, that some voters have bought into that argument. So, we do anticipate that Susan Crawford will be speaking at some point here tonight. I'm actually told that all four liberal justices who are currently on the Supreme Court are expected to appear with her at some point. So, we will see what kind of message she has for Wisconsin voters, but also potentially for the nation as Democrats are egging (ph) out this big win here in the battleground state of Wisconsin.
TAPPER: All right. Arlette Saenz in Madison, Wisconsin.
Anderson Cooper, this is a call that we did not expect to make so early, but really a commanding performance by Judge Crawford.
ANDERSON COOPER, CNN ANCHOR: It is indeed. And we've also been talking about the huge amounts of money being put into this race on all sides here. Obviously, good news for Democrats in Wisconsin. We also have the results out of Florida, which obviously we were watching early on, both Republican candidates doing well there, winning -- I'm not sure the final vote tallies once we got those up. Well, we'll put them up when we have them.
ASHLEY ALLISON, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: Yes. Look, this is an important win for Democrats in the state of Wisconsin. It is not an indicator of where the overall country is in terms of political alignment, but it is a testament that when you continue to organize, you have a clear message, you can win campaigns. And I think in a moment like that right now, Democrats need to remember that and continue to cultivate what their message is ahead of the New Jersey and what's Virginia elections this year, the governor's race that we have in the legislatures that we have in those states, and then ahead of midterms as well.
I think that, you know, Florida, yes, no one expected Democrats to win. I still think it was closer than people expected in Florida. Again, probably not a place, an area that we will flip back in 2028. That's not what we're saying. But it is giving an opportunity for Democrats to say, well, who are these voters? Are they low or high propensity voters that showed up and that's why it was closer? It gives you some data to examine beyond just presidential elections (ph).
COOPER: Right. In previous races in Florida, the Republican --
ALLISON: It was a blowout, 30-some points, right? So, you need -- you want to find who are those voters in that margin between, and maybe you could some draw some conclusions and maybe you don't, but data beyond just a presidential outcome, I think, is important.
SCOTT JENNINGS, CNN SENIOR POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: Yes, I tend to agree with that, actually. But there's always things to learn, and for the Republicans, you know, it's a party of low propensity voters now. And so did any of them actually show up in any of these races in Florida or Wisconsin, or was it largely they just kept doing what they've been doing, which is showing up for Donald Trump and nothing else? That's one thing to be studied. I do think the Republican takeaways tonight are going to be this. In Florida, Democrats burned about $20 million on two congressional campaigns, where both Republicans look like they're going to get around 57 percent of the vote. Yes, not as high as what Donald Trump got, but certainly commanding victories. Democrats were down in the low 40s, Republicans again at 57 percent.
Wisconsin, the voter I.D. initiative that Donald Trump was heavily involved in and heavily supported, that's a big issue for Republicans and conservatives. Last I saw, it was passing at about a rate of 60- 40. So, they're going to like that. I agree with you that Democrats have a nice win on the Supreme Court here, called it early in the night.
But for Republicans tonight, I do think a lot of people were sort of bracing for impact, you know, what was going to happen tonight and what do we find out. Republicans are okay in their Florida districts and voter I.D. is still a popular thing. There's a bunch of people that voted for a liberal Supreme Court justice and turned around and voted voter I.D. tonight in Wisconsin, which shows you the popularity of that issue, which has been a Republican issue.
ALYSSA FARAH GRIFFIN, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: I think there's a significant disconnect between Republicans who feel like we're only four months into the Trump administration. There may have been some hiccups, but they're largely willing to give him some bandwidth to get his agenda into place even tomorrow when his liberation day is coming and these massive tariffs are going to go into effect. They're willing to give him a glide path to see if his plans actually work.
I think Democrats, to some degree, may have overhyped that there may be some sort of feeling of, you know, you didn't get what you voted for in this election. And I think those impacts, whether it's potential cuts to services, through these V.A. firings, through these Social Security office firings through Doge, those haven't really been felt by voters yet. So, I didn't really expect there would be some massive flip against this administration just four months in. That may change again at the midterms, but it's way, way too soon to expect some tide shift.
FMR. LT. GOV. MANDELA BARNES (D-WI): Voter I.D. might be a Republican issue, but there will not be a conservative seat on the Supreme Court after tonight. And so the way I look at this is, again, I will go back, I will stand on the issue, the fact that this was a referendum on Elon Musk. He was brought up ad nauseum throughout the campaign.
COOPER: You think that's what this was?
[22:15:01]
BARNES: This election, for sure, for sure. And I will also add that there is an entire -- there's such a long road to go for Democrats in terms of messaging, in terms of appeal, and in terms of approach. We are nowhere near out of the woods on this. The race in New Jersey and the race in Virginia will be completely different than this because this election, given the fact that abortion is on the ballot, given the fact that there is some discuss with Trump and Elon Musk of it all, for sure, but the terms sort of set themselves in a Supreme Court race. And we saw this sort of victory two years ago, and this is effectively a repeat of that because the same issues remain in the forefront.
COOPER: Scott, do you think this in Wisconsin was referendum on Musk?
JENNINGS: Well, I could look at it from another direction. I think the Schimel campaign was really struggling both financially and just in terms of traction before Musk got involved. He may have actually, you know, given whatever boost he had late but it didn't solve for the issue that the Republicans have, which is these low propensity voters and try to get them to turn out for things that are not Donald Trump.
You heard Elon Musk, I think, correctly try to tie a vote in the Supreme Court race to much larger, you know, macro political issues, but it wasn't enough. And so that is an equation the Republicans have to solve for. I don't think it's going to be an issue in '28. But, look, you got a midterm between now and then. It will be an issue in these midterms and that's something the party strategists are going to have to deal with.
COOPER: Let's go back to Jake. Jake?
TAPPER: All right, Anderson, thanks so much.
And we have somebody here who knows a little bit about winning statewide elections in Wisconsin, Scott Walker, who won the governor's race there twice and also survived handily a recall election. You brought me up to speed, I said this was the quickest erase I've ever been called to in Wisconsin because it usually lasts like days. And you noted that, no, that was not the case. Your recall failed pretty quickly, we called it earlier.
FMR. GOV. SCOTT WALKER (R-WI): Yes, less than an hour.
TAPPER: So, give us your analysis of what went right for Judge Crawford and what went wrong for Judge Schimel.
WALKER: Yes. I think two things, and I've said this for months. I thought, one, the turnout model was always going to be at the disadvantage of Schimel over Crawford because there's about 200,000 voters that voted for Donald Trump last November. We just historically don't vote in spring elections. And so part of the reason why we wanted the president and others to be involved was to try and make -- connect the dots, to make that connection. And some of that happened, but clearly not enough, if you look at these results. Everything was money, obviously, a lot of attention of late to Musk.
But if you look at the financial advantage, Crawford's campaign spent twice as much as I did in my first election for governor. So, that shows you how much the stakes have been elevated considerably more than the Shimel campaign, and about Milwaukee Paper at least estimates about three quarters of that came from out of state. So, there was a lot of emphasis because of the hopes that this new court would take action on the congressional boundaries. TAPPER: You heard maybe Mandela Barnes and the other panel in New York saying that he thought that this was in a lot of ways, Mandela Barnes, for people don't know, former lieutenant governor of Wisconsin, Democrat, saying that, in a lot of ways, he thought this was a referendum on the involvement of Elon Musk, and we saw Judge Crawford basically making Elon Musk her opponent, not Judge Schimel, saying like, I didn't know I was going to be -- you know, I'm just a humble caveman. I didn't know I was going to be running against (INAUDIBLE), that's not a slam on the judge. I didn't know I was going to be running against the richest man in the world. And as has been pointed out, this is a state where your own citizens own the football team. So, do you think that was compelling?
WALKER: I think it's an interesting tactic. It's a little Saul Alinsky-ish in the sense that you've got George Soros and J.B. Pritzker and Reed Hoffman and all these billionaires who've spent far more than Musk did in this, and now pointing say, well, wait a minute --
TAPPER: I don't think they spent -- on this, they didn't.
WALKER: Well, collectively, if you look at all the money from outside that was given to her, again, 77 percent of it came from out of state, only 15 percent came from Schimel. And, collectively, a number of the analysis showed that --
TAPPER: Well, I'm just saying like in terms of the money from J.B. Pritzker --
WALKER: Oh, individual. So, if you look at the whole outside money that came from out of the state, it's clear that she had money.
TAPPER: But you don't think it was a referendum on Musk at all though?
WALKER: Oh, I think it had a part of it. I think a lot of different issues. I think, again, in Wisconsin, you see that flip back and forth. We're much more so than even like a state like Virginia, which historically has gone the opposite of the White House. You see a reaction one way and a reaction the other way. It's why in the last 35 years, there's only been one time a governor has won when their own parties in the White House.
So many of these things were multiple factors, not just Trump, not just Musk, but I think multiple. Those are the easiest ones to cover. But I think it was much more in depth and regretted (ph) than that.
DANA BASH, CNN ANCHOR: You know, one of the questions I have that we haven't talked about is the issue of abortion. Because Republicans have successfully, thanks to the Supreme Court, sent this back to the states, and so it's become politically a state issue. And this was a huge issue for a lot of Democrats and a lot of the grassroots. Do you think that that worked?
WALKER: I think it was a bigger deal two years ago when there was a huge margin in the 2023 election, without a doubt, coming off the Dobbs decision. I think it was less of a factor. We didn't see it as in many of the ads, certainly didn't see in the direct mail pieces that we did two years ago.
[22:20:02]
Again, it was part of a package of things. And I think the biggest thing, to their credit, views look politically, one of the things they did quite effectively, I don't agree with it, but they tried to neutralize the law and order issue, even though a number of objective newspapers in Milwaukee and others said that Schimel had given much harsher sentences than his counterpart, both being on the circuit court, two different counties, the ads made it appear as though he was the same or worse than her on those ads. Those traditionally have been how -- in tied elections -- how conservatives did won before if they were tough in law and order. That didn't work this time.
BASH: Because I was told that the president himself was a little bit reluctant because the conservative candidate didn't support any exceptions.
WALKER: Oh, he didn't have any. His position was, bottom line, was he is not taking a position. The real decision before the court's going to be, is it the law that's been there since almost the start of the state or it's the law I signed that protects an unborn life about halfway through a pregnancy. Those are the issues the court would decide. There's nothing else beyond that. People tried to make it about more than that. But that's really what the court is going to decide.
And I thought maybe not to the degree that Trump had done last November, but in terms of what we saw from voters out there, yes, that was not high on the list. It was some of these other issues where they took the law and order issue off the table and really neutralized it.
KASIE HUNT, CNN ANCHOR AND CHIEF NATIONAL AFFAIRS ANALYST: So, what would you say you would take away from what we're seeing here that will apply to the elections we're going to see coming up to the midterm House races and to where Donald Trump stands right now with swing voters?
WALKER: Well, I think as we saw the first time around when Donald Trump was president, he's a huge motivator both for turnout and finances. Those things, if you have an advantage two years ago when there was advantage in the Supreme Court, it was clearly -- you know, the candidate won there, won by about ten points, because they had a huge advantage in both of those. It was a little tighter on the money and a little tighter on the turnout model, but still very much the case there. That's the thing to watch. If conservatives in the midterms can't match or at least come close to matching, they're going to face some real challenges.
They can. And if we see the economy improve, I think things could be different in 2026.
ABBY PHILLIP, CNN ANCHOR AND SENIOR POLITICAL CORRESPONDENT: I want to go back to Elon Musk for a second because I mean, it is true that he spent $20 million on affiliated groups that were involved in this race. Was it a risk for Republicans to put all their eggs in that basket? Not only did he spend the money, he came to the state, he came to the state, he talked about cutting. Medicaid, Social Security through DOGE, bringing those issues up for --
WALKER: Actually, he never talked -- he explicitly said that he would not cut Social Security. That's exactly what he said.
PHILLIP: Well, he talked at his rallies.
WALKER: No, other people said about that, but I was there. I watched him. He did not say he was going to cut Medicaid.
PHILLIP: All right, well other people at his rallies who worked for DOGE, who worked for Elon Musk's organization talked about those issues.
WALKER: No, I was at the rally. Not one of them said that. That's what protesters said, but nobody there actually said that.
PHILLIP: Do you think that there are risks here --
WALKER: There are if people who believe the lies that people were saying about that. That's not at all what they said. If people believe that Medicaid and Medicare is going to be touched, that's just a flat right outright lie. What he talked about are people who over 120 years old, clearly are not a lie hitting Social Security or Medicaid.
PHILLIP: Okay. Well, let -- just to sort this out. The reason I brought this up is because the claim here is that there's massive widespread fraud and that's all they're addressing. That's obviously a disputed claim because it's not true that 120-year-old people are getting Social Security checks. The checks stop at a certain point automatically because those checks are -- those checks and balances are already in place.
WALKER: But those Social Security numbers get counted for various parts of the federal government. So, they count -- they don't get a benefit directly to those people, but they count for money that gets allocated different departments in their budget, and they shouldn't be. If somebody is no longer alive, they should be able to count that as an abdication (ph).
PHILLIP: So, I guess my fundamental question, was what are the risks here of Elon dabbling in elections for Republicans going forward?
WALKER: Well, again, I think in the end he's going to have to continue to make the case. Part of the reason why when we talked about our recall, what flipped things for us, early down, early on in that recall process, TIME Magazine called me Dead Man Walker. And the reason was because all the narratives coming up from the press, coming up from the left were about all these horrible, egregious things.
Once we started to give examples of things we were actually doing, not the things the press said, not the things that sow our opponents said, but the things that we were actually doing when we ended up going before the voters in the final election and the recall, we actually won by more votes than we did. So, I think it's paramount for him or anyone else aligned with them is keep giving actual examples of what they're doing. Set aside things like Social Security and make it abundantly clear that that's not being touched. But if there's waste, fraud and abuse, spell it out, make the case and bring it to the voters.
TAPPER: Governor Walker, great to have you. Thank you so much. I really appreciate it.
Still ahead, more reaction to the results in the Wisconsin Supreme Court race, the liberal candidate's victory, Judge Crawford, why Elon Musk's multimillion dollar pitch for her opponent, Brad Schimel, did not succeed. We also expect to hear from the winner, Judge Crawford, coming up.
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[22:25:00]
COOPER: And welcome back. We're following breaking news, Liberal Judge Susan Crawford defeating her conservative challenger, Brad Schimel, for a seat on Wisconsin State Supreme Court. It was a closely watched contest in an early measure of how voters may be responding to the new Trump administration.
I want to go straight to CNN's Omar Jimenez, who's at the headquarters of Judge Brad Schimel in Waukesha, Wisconsin. Omar, I understand judge Schimel has just spoke to his supporters.
OMAR JIMENEZ, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Yes, he just got off the stage not too long ago where he made the announcement that he officially called Judge Susan Crawford to concede this race, to which the crowd then erupted in boos, and he sort of fought back those boos and said no, no, no, you need to accept the results.
[22:30:01]
To -- at that point, there were some people that were clearly upset, but he pushed on through and said that the votes just aren't going to be there. So, really, sort of consoling the crowd in the moment as he also was sharing with them the work that he did to get up to this point. It just wasn't enough to get him to the actual finish line.
Obviously, lot of people in the room here. We got some immediate reaction from the state GOP Chair, Brian Schimming. When I asked him, do you see this as a referendum in any way on what happened in November in regards to the election of Donald Trump?
He said, no. He does not see this as that. He thinks getting Trump elected was a very important step here in Wisconsin. And, obviously, he did not fully commit to what CNN has projected at this point. He says he wants to see his own returns. But at the same time, he does not see this, as big of a loss potentially as, the wind that Trump got in November here.
COOPER: All right. Omar Jimenez, thanks so much. Appreciate it. I want to go back to CNN's Kaitlan Collins who's at -- at the White House. Kaitlan?
KAITLAN COLLINS, CNN ANCHOR AND CHIEF WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: Yeah. Anderson, here at the White House, we are hearing President Trump weigh in on Wisconsin, but not the fact that there is a projected loss for the candidate that he was supporting in that Supreme Court race. Instead, he is touting this voter ID amendment that passed. It just strengthens a current state law that is on the books.
But, Jeff Zeleny, obviously, this is something the White House had been watching closely. You reported earlier the president had personally signed off on Elon Musk and his close involvement in this race as he was there just on -- on Sunday. And so, this raises real questions. You know, the President earlier was quick to respond to the elections in Florida.
He has not commented yet on this projected loss by Brad Schimel yet and the projected win by Susan Crawford, as we're waiting for her to speak any moment now. What do you -- what do you make of that?
JEFF ZELENY, CNN CHIEF NATIONAL AFFAIRS CORRESPONDENT: Look. I think we hear from the President immediately when he wants to speak, and there's no doubt in Florida, this is a big night for him because he has a bit more breathing room in Congress, but it's an embarrassment in Wisconsin.
However, we should take a deep breath. These, special elections and state elections don't necessarily predict what's going to happen. So, in terms of the -- the referendum on the Trump agenda, I think we don't know. There's certainly some backlash, but it's much more clear on Elon Musk.
He was out there on Sunday handing out these million dollar checks. Just talking to a variety of voters that I spent, last year speaking to during many, many visits to Wisconsin, that turned off Democrats for certain, but also some Republicans.
So, that will be a big question as you and I come back and report here tomorrow. What does Elon Musk do? What does President Trump do? As you pointed out, President Trump likes winners. He does not like losers.
COLLINS: He does not like losers. And that's a real question here in terms of how the President views all of this. Because maybe it doesn't say anything about Trump himself or maybe, you know, hints of it, but not, a lot here. But that is certainly the point there. Trump likes someone who is politically persuasive. He likes to back winners. He likes to tout when his endorsement succeeds as he did --
ZELENY: Right.
COLLINS: -- earlier with Randy Fine and Jimmy Patronis. That is a question here, though, in terms of Elon Musk's involvement in this race and, obviously, whether or not as you know, earlier he was being described as a heat shield for President Trump, but how he views that factor.
ZELENY: Look, I think Republican candidates will definitely want his money. There's no doubt about it. But the messaging, will that change? That's essential question. But Wisconsin, once again, proves it is a divided state, a Democratic governor, a Democratic and a Republican senator, one of the few states left in the country like that. So, once again tonight, Wisconsin voters having their say.
COLLINS: Yeah, we're waiting for her to walk out on stage. You can hear the loud cheers inside the room as we are waiting to hear our first comments from the projected winner as she's now on stage greeting her supporters. And as we're talking about Elon Musk's role in this, she often framed that her opponent in this race was Elon Musk, as she said in the closing days of this race while he was there in Wisconsin campaigning for her opponent.
(CROWD CHEERING)
COLLINS: And you can hear them chanting. Just notable, Jeff, to watch this scene because this is what Elon Musk said was -- was nothing short of Western civilization. He said to a degree was at stake in this race.
ZELENY: And she said she could not believe she'd be running against the world's richest man. Let's listen.
SUSAN CRAWFORD, WISCONSIN SUPREME COURT JUSTICE-ELECT: All right. Wisconsin, we did it.
(APPLAUSE)
UNKNOWN: We love you. We're proud of you. It's all about women.
CRAWFORD: Oh, yeah. You know, just moments ago, I received a phone call from Judge Brad Schimel. I can see --
(APPLAUSE)
CRAWFORD: And I want to thank him. He was very gracious and I wish him and his family well. And to the people of Wisconsin, thank you.
[22:35:00]
(APPLAUSE)
CRAWFORD: Thank you for trusting me to serve you on the Wisconsin Supreme Court. This campaign has been an incredible life-altering experience in so many ways and I'm so grateful to have earned the trust and support of voters across this great state.
(APPLAUSE)
CRAWFORD: And I'm here tonight because I've spent my life fighting to do what's right. That's why I got into this race, to protect the fundamental rights and freedoms of all Wisconsinites.
UNKNOWN: Yes.
(APPLAUSE) CRAWFORD: Growing up in Chippewa Falls, I was blessed with a loving family. Yeah. Chippewa. Yeah.
(APPLAUSE)
UNKNOWN: We won, we won.
CRAWFPORD: It was a great community where people watched out for each other. And my experiences growing up in small town Wisconsin shaped me into the person that I am today. Someone who values hard work, common sense, honesty and who can tell right from wrong.
(CROWD CHEERING)
(APPLAUSE)
UNKNOWN: Yeah.
CRAWFORD: Someone who watches out for people. But I've got to tell you, as a little girl growing up in Chippewa Falls, I never could have imagined that I'd be taking on the richest man in the world -
(APPLAUSE)
CRAWFORD: -- for justice in Wisconsin. And we won.
(APPLAUSE)
CRAWFORD: I've spent my whole career fighting for Wisconsin as a prosecutor, a lawyer, a judge, and now a soon to be justice on the Wisconsin Supreme Court.
(APPLAUSE)
CRAWFORD: Standing up for our fundamental rights and freedoms, protecting Wisconsin families and communities. My promise to Wisconsin is clear. I will be a fair, impartial and common sense justice on the Wisconsin Supreme Court.
(APPLAUSE)
CRAWFORD: And I want to thank everyone across the state who helped to get us to this point. I'm here because of you. To every volunteer who made this happen, for every phone call, every door knocked, every text sent, every postcard written and mailed, it all paid off. Thank you so much.
(APPLAUSE)
CRAWFORD: To all of my friends and colleagues, thank you for your unwavering support, friendship, and words of encouragement. To my campaign staff led by the incredible Cassie Fanelli --
(CROWD CHEERING)
CRAWFORD: -- thank you for all of your work to make this happen. All the late nights, all the long drives. I'm so grateful to all of you for all your work. Thank you.
(APPLAUSE)
CRAWFORD: She's the best. They're all the best. To all of our partners and everyone who worked so tirelessly to get us to this point, thank you. And to my friends, justices, Ann Walsh Bradley.
UNKNOWN: Yeah.
(APPLAUSE)
CRAWFORD: Justice Rebecca Dalit.
(APPLAUSE)
CRAWFORD: Justice Jill Karofsky.
(APPLAUSE)
CRAWFORD: And Justice Janet Protasiewicz.
(APPLAUSE)
(CROWD CHANTING, "Susan, Susan")
CRAWFORD: Thank you. Oh my gosh. You know, I am so humbled to have had all of your unwavering support and encouragement since day one in this race.
[22:40:02]
And to Ann, although no one can truly fill your shoes, I am incredibly honored to succeed you on the Wisconsin Supreme Court.
(APPLAUSE)
CRAWFORD: You leave an incredible legacy.
TAPPER: All right, the brand new Supreme Court Justice from the State of Wisconsin, Susan Crawford, giving her victory address in Madison, Wisconsin, home of the University of Wisconsin in Dane County, and a big part of why she won, defeating Brad Schimel, a judge, from Waukesha County, right outside Milwaukee in one of the highest profile State Supreme Court races in the history of the United States. I can't really even think of one, that was this high stakes.
Let's talk about this now with our panel. And Kara Swisher's back with us, the -- the tech journalist who knows Elon Musk better, than almost anyone in our profession. You heard Mandela Barnes, the former Lieutenant Governor of Wisconsin say, although Scott Walker, the former Governor disputes it, that he thinks that Elon Musk was one of the major reasons --
KARA SWISHER, PODCAST HOST "ON" AND "PIVOT": Absolutely.
TAPPER: -- that Susan Crawford won. SWISHER: Yes.
TAPPER: One of the biggest --
(CROSSTALK)
SWISHER: But absolutely --
TAPPER: You think so?
SWISHER: Elon Musk is repellent -- is repellent as a political brand to many people. Just walking in a state he doesn't know, never heard of, and then sort of sucking up all the attention, wearing the cheese head. I know it sounds dumb, but it's a great thing to wear a cheese head. And just to pretend that you have interest there and then go on about saving humanity. It's just an ego trip.
TAPPER: But what's interesting about it is you heard anytime anybody brings this up, a Republican will say, well, what about J.B. Pritzker and what about George Soros and what about this and what about that? And I guess the answer is you don't see George Soros --
SWISHER: I didn't see George Soros --
TAPPER: I don't see them out there talking.
SWISHER: No.
TAPPER: Right? I mean, they might be giving money to organizations, this and that and people can criticize that if you want.
SWISHER: They all do. They also --
TAPPER: But -- but the idea that like, oh no, I am going to tell these voters. Forget, like, hiring Scott Walker to do it or --
SWISHER: Right.
TAPPER: -- or somebody on the Milwaukee Bucks. I'm going to tell them.
SWISHER: Right. No. It's -- he has to suck up all the oxygen. He -- there's only one other person that needs more attention. It's Donald Trump. And in fact, Donald Trump will shine comparison these days. He has to be at the center. He's got to jump up and down, wear a cheese head, talk about humanity, and then make himself a nuisance, I think.
PHILLIP: Well, we think the scale is an issue, too.
(CROSSTALK)
PHILLIP: I think that this was the -- the thing that I was discussing with Scott Walker is that the scale is so different. I mean, what, George Soros and J.B. Pritzker did in this race is dwarfed by comparison to what Elon did, not just in his personal contribution --
(CROSSTALK) TAPPER: Yeah, two million each or something. Yeah.
PHILLIP: -- but in contributions to other groups and other -- a handful of other big money, donors on the Republican side of the aisle. And I also think that there's something, kind of sort of - it -- it's sort of primitive about these million dollar checks that I think also kind of causes people to say what's going on here when Elon says, I'm just going to hand money to people to participate.
BASH: But I don't --
PHILLIP: I think there's a huge risk here in Republicans telling voters that that is the game that they're playing with their politics.
BASH: Well, we were talking earlier about versions of this up till November in the presidential race. It did okay. It helped.
TAPPER: Better than okay.
BASH: It did -- it worked --
TAPPER: It helped to win Pennsylvania and it helped absolutely.
BASH: The --the very big difference, the most important difference between then and now is DOGE, is that he has become, a symbol for so much of what people --
(CROSSTALK)
SWISHER: Right and he has made himself that.
BASH: Exactly.
(CROSSTALK)
SWISHER: Even when he's pretending he's not running --
(CROSSTALK)
BASH: Back then, people thought of him still as the Tesla guy, the rocket guy, the SpaceX guy who also was giving a lot of money -- and the -- and the Twitter guy. And now he's totally perceived differently.
UNKNOWN: Well, I think this has really laid bare the difference to between Elon Musk and Donald Trump and helped illuminate the political risk that Elon represents to Donald Trump overall. And you can see how Donald Trump is starting to talk about this a little bit differently around the edges.
You didn't see Donald Trump -- Scott Walker sat here a second ago and said, we wanted Donald Trump to be involved in this race. When Trump's on the ballot, Republicans have a bigger structural advantage in Wisconsin, so we wanted him involved.
You didn't see Donald Trump campaigning in Wisconsin. You did see Elon Musk, and now you're seeing this result here. And when you listen to how Trump is talking about when he gets asked about DOGE, for example, well, he'll come back around and say, oh oh, it's a scalpel. We've got a scalpel, and my agency heads are working on that, right?
That is an evolution from where it started when he was kind of all in with Elon Musk and he was letting him do his own thing. I think this is really going to contribute to a conversation here in Washington, especially as House Republicans are looking at this feeling nervous about midterm elections that are far away.
[22:45:03]
SWISHER: On a state-to-state level, look. Nationally, in a lot of these agencies, people are more like, we didn't vote for him. He's unelected. He's unfettered. He has more money than anyone on the planet.
And in a state, in a particular state, and I could -- I'm sure if you're from Wisconsin or for any state, who is this guy? Why is he here? Why am I looking at him? And I think that's the thing. In individual states, people should run the states the way they want to. And I think they felt offended by even Republicans --
TAPPER: Yeah, well, one of the things that's interesting is Donald Trump -- President Trump, you -- you note that his tone and tenor are changing when talking about Elon Musk. He doesn't say anything negative, but what he'll say is, like, Elon has a lot of companies to run, and we're only going to have him for a little bit a little bit longer.
UNKNOWN: He' going to be very busy very soon with other things.
TAPPER: President Trump, when all is said and done, he tends to be very out there if you're just listening to what he's saying. And he's like, yeah. Elon's not going to be able to do this much longer.
Coming up, the biggest takeaways from this election night, what it all means for the Democrats as they try to settle on a strategy against President Trump. Stay with us.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[22:50:44]
COOPER: And welcome back. A big win for the Democratic-backed candidate in the Wisconsin Supreme Court race. Liberal Judge Susan Crawford leading by over 165,000 votes compared to President Trump's just over, 29 -- excuse me.
The -- the other judge's 29,000 vote lead. Excuse me --that's so -- President Trump's just over 29,000 vote lead in November. She's leading in eight counties that President Trump won. Do you -- I mean, do you see this as some sort of referendum on --
JENNINGS: Look. Not really. I mean, I I've been trying not to overread any of this, good or bad, for either party. I mean, it's -- it's an off year, off cycle, special circumstance, so the turnout is just so much different than a midterm or a presidential.
I mean, my takeaways from the night are really, you know, where do we go from here? The Republicans still have a small majority in the House. They got their wins tonight. That's good if you're a Republican. Voter ID, still popular apparently. That's good if you're Donald Trump because he was for that.
And, you know, turning out these low propensity Trump aligned voters is still a major problem for the Republicans. That's bad. And so, if I'm looking out into the future, you know, the Republicans, you know, have something to work with in the House, but also something to work on as it relates to the structural nature of how the party works now.
It it's a major flip. This used to be the Democrats' problem. You guys had the low propensity voters. We sort of dominated in these low turnout settings. Now, it's the opposite. Lower turnout, better for Democrats. Higher turnout, better for Republicans.
ALLISON: We still have a lot of low propensity voters that we need to work on doing just for my party to stay away on that. Two things I would say is one, we sat here, November 5th or November 6th election by the time the election was called, and I was told that there was a mandate.
Tonight is a reminder that Republicans won in November, but there is not an overhaul mandate to -- to totally disrupt and change everything in our systems because we're just seeing that in Wisconsin, a battleground state, and even by the margins shrinking in Florida. Yes. They -- the Republicans won, but that is clear that voters are watching, and they're not saying just take a chainsaw, I would say. That's the first thing.
Second thing I would say to Democrats is do something. We were talking tonight about Cory Booker. You can win. Don't -- stop playing scared. Like, get out there. Start testing stuff. Start trying to engage with people. Get out of the National Ivory Tower of Washington, D.C., take it to the streets --
COOPER: Do you see Democrats doing that in states around the country?
ALLISON: They need to do more. I'm not satisfied. I'll say that. I I think they need to do more. I think they need the -- the fight that people want Democrats to do for them, meaning not a literal fight, but fight for their rights, fight for their benefits, fight for a better America.
They are not feeling right now, and there is more that people can do. And -- and quite honestly, the people who elected, including myself, the individuals who hold these offices, we deserve a better fight for Democrats.
GRIFFIN: Listen. I think if you're the NRCC, you're kind of sighing of -- you sigh of relief tonight and patting yourself on the back that you kept these margins, still to double digits in both these Florida seats. But I think it is an indicator that going into the midterms, you've got some seats that are a lot closer.
You've got some swing seats in New York, for example, that they need to be cognizant that this is likely going to be in midterms that in the House, at least, there is a could be a potentially massive swing against incumbent, the Republicans.
But I honestly think the big takeaway from tonight, I think a lot of people are going to forget about both Wisconsin and Florida. I think Cory Booker's speech matters. I'm not the audience for it, but this thing's already gotten over a million views on TikTok. It's going viral.
People are seeing it. And there's -- I hear it from Democrats all the time. They feel like no one's fighting for them. They're like, who is our leader? Chuck Schumer is saying, we will -- if we fight, we win, but, like, well, you're not fighting and you're not winning.
So, he at least showed that he was willing to take action, and they've got words that they can work with, and it's a younger generation voice that they can look to.
COOPER: If the 25 hours got a million views, I'd be --
GRIFFIN: I mean, actually -- to be honest -- deserves. Yeah.
COOPER: All right.
BARNES: And I don't want Democrats to look at this victory and think that we've been doing things right to Ashley's point because there is so much more fight that needs to happen. There is so much more Cory Booker energy that we saw over the last 24 -- 25 hours that needs to be displayed, not just for the next two years into the midterm, not just through the presidential, but consistently.
[22:55:06]
And another thing I will say on the other hand is that Republicans put a lot into saying that Brad Schimel is going to uplift and support the Donald Trump agenda. That was in so many of the door hangers, so many of the mailers. They made it more political and made the campaign more aligned with Donald Trump than Democrats did.
You know, we talked about Elon Musk, but they wanted voters to know that Brad Schimel supported Donald Trump's agenda, and they responded in kind. So, I'm still, you know, thinking that this is a -- seeing that this is a really good sign for, you know, politically for, you know, for us to come going into the midterm.
COOPER: Thanks -- thanks to all. Appreciate it. Abby Phillip picks up our election night coverage on "NewsNight". We have a quick break. Back in a moment.
