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New Details Emerge on New Orleans Attack. Aired 1-1:30p ET

Aired January 02, 2025 - 13:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[13:00:33]

ANNOUNCER: This is CNN breaking news.

BRIANNA KEILAR, CNN HOST: Thank you for joining us on CNN NEWS CENTRAL. I'm Brianna Keilar in Washington. Boris Sanchez is on assignment.

And we are following breaking developments out of New Orleans, where we're getting some new details from federal and local officials about their investigation into the deadly New Year's Day terror attack.

The FBI says it now believes the Army veteran from Texas who they say intentionally plowed a truck into a crowd on Bourbon Street acted alone, 14 people killed in this, among the victims, Kareem Badawi, a student at the University of Alabama, also 27-year-old Tiger Bech, a Lafayette, Louisiana, native and former Princeton football player.

And we're also learning that Hubert Gauthreaux lost his life, along with 37-year-old Reggie Hunter. He was a father from Baton Rouge who wished his family happy new year moments after midnight in a text to their group chat that would be among the last that he sent. Hunter's cousin spoke to CNN earlier today.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

TRAVIS HUNTER, COUSIN OF VICTIM: Reggie was a beautiful person inside and out.

To know Reggie was to love Reggie. He was always in a good mood. He changed the environment in the room, always smiling, just a pure person, a good, pure-hearted person. There's nothing else I could say, other than he's just a beautiful person inside and out.

I received a call yesterday morning around 6:26 from his sister saying that her brother was involved in the incident that took place on Bourbon Street yesterday early morning.

And we immediately rushed to the hospital in New Orleans to meet her there to see exactly what had taken place in and what was his status.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

KEILAR: CNN anchor Anderson Cooper is live for us on the scene in New Orleans. And, Anderson, we're really getting a clearer picture of exactly how this played out, who was involved or not involved, a lot of details coming to light.

ANDERSON COOPER, CNN HOST: Yes, a lot has changed with this last press conference that occurred basically about an hour or so ago.

As you said, really the headline out of it, the FBI agent in charge saying they now believe that there were not other accomplices certainly on the ground here in New Orleans. That had been a concern because of the other explosive devices that had been found. The FBI confirmed, they say two explosive devices were found, one about two blocks actually from where I'm standing in that direction.

The attack actually ended about several blocks down in that direction. We're just overlooking Bourbon Street now. We expect Bourbon Street actually to reopen officially about 2.5 hours from now, though there may be some sort of opening ceremony shortly. We will obviously bring that to you when we can.

But the headline coming out of that press conference is -- as we were talking about, is that the FBI says they believe this man acted alone. They have pored over all of his posts that he made on the -- New Year's Eve as he was driving to New Orleans from Houston, where he picked up that vehicle on the previous day, on December 30, according to the FBI. They said he made a number of statements in those videos.

But I just want to play a little bit of what we heard from the FBI a short time ago.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

CHRISTOPHER RAIA, FBI DEPUTY ASSISTANT DIRECTOR: This was an act of terrorism. It was premeditated and an evil act.

We do not assess at this point that anyone else involved in this attack -- is involved in this attack, except for Shamsud-Din Jabbar, the subject you have already been briefed on.

As you know, we recovered an ISIS flag from the back of the vehicle. Jabbar declared his support for the terrorist group on social media, as I stated before, as he made his way to New Orleans.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

COOPER: According to the FBI, he claimed in one of those videos that he had pledged allegiance to or joined ISIS prior to the summer or just before the summer.

He also apparently said in the video, according to the FBI, that he initially thought about killing relatives and family members of his -- he's divorced from his former wife -- but that he worried about how it would be covered in the headlines in -- by the media, saying that he was worried then that the message would not be focused on what he described as a war between believers and nonbelievers.

[13:05:15]

Those were the terms that he used. So, they are still looking for any information and want to hear from anybody who knows this man, who may have talked to this man even months ago in the run-up to this to try to build a picture of exactly his motivation, exactly the timeline of how his life spiraled to this point, how he made these decisions.

And there's still a lot to learn about the getting of the vehicle, all of the timeline that led up to it And, Brianna, there are right now street cleaners on Bourbon Street. They have been working here all during the night and all throughout the day today.

They have cleaned up. And, as I said, the street may reopen, as the Sugar Bowl is also going to be taking place here in a couple hours.

KEILAR: That's right, delayed since yesterday. It's going to kick off here just blocks from where you are, Anderson.

Can you tell us a little bit about the security that's being ramped up for that and also just how people are feeling? What's the mood like ahead of the game?

COOPER: Yes, I mean, obviously, look, it's -- Bourbon Street right now is shut down, so this area is pretty much a ghost town.

There's certainly a somberness certainly for everybody here. This is not -- this is still kind of so shocking, and it's just been some little bit more than 24 hours. It's hard for a lot of people to kind of even comprehend what has gone on here.

But this is a city used to hosting multiple events going on, large- scale events. There are -- according to the FBI, they said that there were as many as 1,000 -- I believe it was the governor -- said there's many as 1,000 law enforcement agents, officers working on this investigation trying to follow all the clues, all the leads that may be coming in.

And then they also have a very large security operation involving hundreds of law enforcement personnel to provide security for the game that's going to be taking place. There's more than 50 bomb-detecting dogs, according to authorities, around the Superdome.

So they're really trying not to take any chances. And, obviously, the issue of upgrading security at live events in New Orleans and probably in a lot of places throughout the country is very much on the topic for officials here and elsewhere.

KEILAR: Yes, certainly.

Anderson, thank you so much for the latest there from the French Quarter. We do appreciate it.

And let's talk more now with CNN's senior justice correspondent Evan Perez on this FBI investigation.

What are officials looking for at this stage? EVAN PEREZ, CNN SENIOR JUSTICE CORRESPONDENT: At this stage now, now

that they believe this is a lone wolf, this is an attacker who was working alone, and, as you can see, as what Anderson was just describing and what the FBI says, was simply radicalizing on his own and was in his last few days, I guess, making known what his intent was, now they're going to try to put together a more complete picture of exactly how this happened.

Obviously, there's a lot of things for the FBI to unpack. There's a lot of vulnerabilities that this attack has kind of exposed. One of the things that the FBI and sort of law enforcement really struggle with is how to stop lone wolf attackers, because, if you don't really talk to anybody, if you don't tell anyone what you're about to do, if you don't reach out to ISIS coordinators on Telegram, they have no idea what you're about to do.

And if nobody around you sees some kind of change or reports it, it's really difficult for them to get an idea of what was happening. One of the things that happened yesterday, as you and I were talking yesterday at this hour, was the FBI was going down this hole of, like, trying to figure out whether people who were seen dragging water -- ice coolers that seemed and were suspected to contain explosives, whether they were connected in any way, again, part of what the investigators have to do, right?

And that happened right about the time that our -- that the press conference, the chaotic press conference that we watched live here on our air. And so they looked at those people. They, in the end, figured out that there were people who were just trying to get free beer, and they were not a danger, right?

And so those are the things that have been happening in the last 30- plus hours or so, so, again, going through the computers. There's five devices that they have to now exploit. They're going to spend weeks and weeks trying to go through that, and then also trying to address vulnerabilities.

The FBI and DHS did warn after the ramming attack at the Christmas market in Germany just a few weeks ago that this was a possible type of attack that could be expected here. New Orleans did not heed that warning. And so those are the things that I think people in New Orleans need to start asking of their officials there.

Why -- one of the biggest soft targets in America, why wasn't more done to protect it, given the fact that they were fixing their bollards that they -- the permanent bollards that they had in place there?

[13:10:06]

KEILAR: Yes, they seemed very defensive yesterday. And I think they're moving into soul-searching.

(CROSSTALK)

PEREZ: Well, I think today what they're trying to move towards is... KEILAR: Well, that's true, the Sugar Bowl.

PEREZ: Yes, they're looking at tourism, and they're trying to get people to come -- make sure that people feel confident to come to New Orleans, but they haven't really dealt with the accountability of, like, 15 people are dead...

KEILAR: Right.

PEREZ: ... there were dozens of people who were injured because of failures here that could have been prevented.

KEILAR: Yes, we saw a huge truck in front of that entrance to Bourbon Street yesterday. And had it been there before, there wouldn't have been an entry path for this driver.

PEREZ: Yes. Right.

KEILAR: Lots of questions.

Evan, thank you so much for that.

Joining us now is Chris Pousson. He went to school with the suspect from the New Orleans attack.

Chris, thank you for being with us.

Just tell us a little bit about your experience with Shamsud-Din. You called him Sham in middle school and high school? Is that right?

CHRIS POUSSON, FORMER CLASSMATE OF SHAMSUD-DIN JABBAR: Right. Yes. Shamsud, his friends, called him Sham.

KEILAR: OK, so you went to middle school and high school with him. When he went off to the Army, you went off to the Air Force, and I know you kind of lost touch, but then you would gotten back in touch a few years ago on social media.

Tell us first what he was like in middle school and high school.

POUSSON: Back then, he was really reserved. He kept to himself. He didn't say too much. He was very smart, very good in school. He wasn't like a troublemaker or anything like that. He was just a -- he was a model student, really.

We met in eighth grade, and then we just happened to move to the same town in ninth grade, went to the same high school. So our friendship just continued on until high school, until he joined the Army, and, like you said, I joined the Air Force.

KEILAR: So when you touched base with him a few years back on social media, I think it was five or so years ago, and got back in touch with him, what were those exchanges like, and had he changed?

POUSSON: Well, yes, we had lost touch because, whenever we graduated, social media wasn't a thing yet. So whenever Facebook came along, we reconnected.

And then we kept in touch for several years, actually, through Facebook, just messaging back and forth, just checking on one another. And then, up until the last few times I had spoke with him, he had become really enthralled in his faith. And pretty much every conversation we had or post that he was making at that time in some, way or shape or form, it all resorted back to his Muslim faith.

KEILAR: OK, so he talked a lot about Islam. Did you get the sense he was radicalized? Or -- I understand you are a Christian and you were talking with him about religion. Were you having respectful exchanges?

POUSSON: It was very respectful, and it wasn't anything like he was upset or mad at anybody.

Every post and every conversation I ever had with him, he was never mad at anything. He never talked about overthrowing the government or being mad at a particular race or religion or anything like that. He was always very respectful and very positive.

His message that I got from him after every conversation was that he was very positive. And it's just that what happened yesterday just came by complete, complete surprise. I never would have seen this coming.

KEILAR: You were shocked. And we have learned from our reporting that I think, since about that time you would have reengaged with him on social media, he has been suffering financial problems. He has -- obviously, his family -- his place in his family has certainly fallen apart.

Did you talk to him about any of that?

POUSSON: No, we didn't get that deep into it. Whenever we had messaged each other back and forth, it was just more so checking on one another, because, like I said, we met in middle school back in 1996.

KEILAR: Yes.

POUSSON: And so, whenever we did talk, it was just, how are you doing, how are things in your neck of the woods, and just keeping it pretty superficial. We never got into anything really deep with family issues or anything like that.

So I didn't know he had any of that stuff going on until the news reports started coming out after the fact since yesterday.

KEILAR: So, I mean, you were shocked by this. And you also have an interesting perspective because you have a military background. You served in an anti-terrorism unit.

He served during this period of time where, obviously, we see the threats that the U.S. was confronting after 9/11. And then seeing him then say that he is swearing allegiance to ISIS, what do you think of that? POUSSON: Complete disbelief, utter shock.

One of our classmates actually messaged me yesterday morning and asked me if I had seen the news, because they -- when they had identified Sham and the attacks. And I told him, oh, don't believe that. That's probably just false reporting, mistaken identity.

[13:15:09]

And the more I looked into it, more credible reports started coming in, and it was him. And I never -- he never gave any tips or clues to me personally whenever I was speaking with him that he was on the verge of doing something like this.

This is -- it's just tragic, and I never, never saw this coming.

KEILAR: What questions do you have about how he made this change and went from the person that you knew to the person who committed this horrible act?

POUSSON: Well, the questions that I have really is just more so from the reports that you guys have been putting out there since the attacks.

I have learned, which -- while I was on hold that he's acted alone. I did not -- I didn't know that was a thing until just recently. And I learned that he had bomb-making materials or bombs inside of his vehicle. And the thing that I don't understand is, if he went through all the -- all the problem -- or all the -- he went through all the trouble to have the bombs made, put them in his vehicle, load them up and drive to New Orleans.

Why would he use his vehicle as a weapon, and not even attempt to place the bombs or set them off or whatever? It's almost as if he didn't want to use them. I don't know. I'm not in his head. So I can't -- I can't speak for him.

It just -- a lot of it just doesn't make sense to me. It's hard to wrap my head around it.

KEILAR: Yes, as we understand it at this point, it may have been that police confronted him before he carried out the totality of the attack that he had planned.

But, again, Chris, there's so much we don't know. You have questions. We have questions. The police are tracking those down. FBI is tracking those down.

Chris, thanks for being with us. I can't imagine what it's like to be in your position, but we appreciate you speaking with us.

POUSSON: Thanks for having me.

KEILAR: And still ahead: The FBI says the suspect in the New Orleans attack was 100 percent inspired by ISIS. So how do investigators figure out when and how he was radicalized? We will talk to an expert about that.

Stay with CNN.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[13:21:44]

KEILAR: A live look right now at the White House, where President Biden met with his national security team in the Situation Room for an update on the investigation into the deadly New Orleans terror attack.

The FBI says that it now believes no one else was involved in this except the driver, who rammed a rented pickup truck into the crowd on Bourbon Street. Right now, officials continue to look for any clues to figure out how and why this happened.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

RAIA: There were five videos posted on Jabbar's Facebook account which are time-stamped beginning at 1:29 a.m. and the last at 3:02 a.m.

In the first video, Jabbar explains he originally planned to harm his family and friends, but was concerned the news headlines would not focus on the -- quote -- "war between the believers and the disbelievers" -- end quote. Additionally, he stated he had joined ISIS before this summer. He also provided a will and testament.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

KEILAR: Let's talk about this now with CNN senior national security analyst Juliette Kayyem. She's a former assistant secretary at the Department of Homeland Security. We're also joined by U.S. counterterrorism intelligence expert Malcolm Nance. He is the author of "Defeating ISIS: Who They Are, How They Fight, What They Believe."

Juliette, let's zero in on the big headline here, which was a lone wolf, which is quite a change. We're hearing that from the FBI deputy assistant director, Christopher Raia. They don't believe anyone else was involved in this attack.

JULIETTE KAYYEM, CNN SENIOR NATIONAL SECURITY ANALYST: Yes, I mean, we have every reason to be somewhat annoyed right now.

And I will tell you why. Yesterday I was on. Nothing made sense out of that press conference. Whatever happened with the FBI, they got sort of strong-armed by whatever this political narrative is. People want these attacks to reflect their beliefs and the way the world is. And we have to follow the facts to be able to protect the American public.

And what never made sense out of yesterday, as you will remember, is, how are you having a Sugar Bowl tonight and telling people there might be a bunch of people out there trying to kill them? It always seemed to me that the idea that there were co-conspirators was probably not true, that we would be able to get to a lone wolf story. Of course, there's an ISIS connection. He has -- he felt like he was

part of this group, but there's something very different for safety and security purposes between ISIS-directed and ISIS group and some guy who wakes up a couple months ago and wants meaning out of his violence.

And we have to -- we have to understand that, because the American public is facing very different risks based on that. The FBI, I will say, also came in strong today, brought in someone from D.C. to -- essentially took over the communication strategy and is getting this thing right-sized, because the narrative is -- got out of hand.

KEILAR: Yes, it's sort of alluded to, we're trying to be transparent, things sometimes go -- we get things wrong. If we're transparent right off the bat, we have to correct them. The FBI has had some transparency issues.

It was a really interesting press conference.

[13:25:00]

KAYYEM: Right.

KEILAR: Malcolm, we just spoke with Chris Pousson, who was -- who's also military connected and is someone who knew this attacker back when he was in middle school and high school.

And Chris was floored to find out that this was someone he knew. He said that, when Sham, as they called him, Shamsud-Din, went into the Army and he went into the Air Force, they ended up getting back in touch about five or six years ago. And what he thought was interesting was that the conversation the part of his friend would always come back to his Muslim faith, but he also felt that it was a very respectful conversation.

So talk to us a little bit about how this happens, because there is sometimes a formula to how someone can be radicalized. What do you see here?

MALCOLM NANCE, FORMER U.S. NAVAL INTELLIGENCE OFFICER: Well, there's definitely a formula.

And we have actually experienced this over the last two decades to a very large extent. You might recall the radicalization of Major Nidal Hasan back in 2009 in Fort Hood, and who went in, an Army psychiatrist who shot his fellow service members to death after a short period of radicalization.

The reason that we're surprised by this right now -- and Juliette made a very, very good point -- is that, are we seeing a self-starting, self-radicalized person who went back and decided to align himself with ISIS, or is this an ISIS-directed attack, where ISIS had its recruiters, the way they were doing in a very large scale back in 2014 through 2017, reaching out to people, finding people, Muslims who were having a very, very hard time in their personal lives, and giving them a new sense of meaning by making them the batal, as they say in Arabic, the hero, who will take positive action in their radicalized cultlike version of Islam?

If it was directed, then we have an external problem that finds these disaffected young men, gives them this belief that they're going to be these heroes, and that they must do a positive act and then end in their own death.

And they always do the same thing. They always make a video. They always make a will about their martyrdom, so that they can popularize the cause from ISIS. I really think that we're going to -- we're probably going to find that at some point he touched base with one of these martyrdom recruiters out there, and then went through the radicalization process himself.

But he's very, very much like every other attacker that we had in the mid-2000s.

KEILAR: So it has those hallmarks to you. And if that's the case, what are your concerns about, Malcolm, what it could mean more broadly?

NANCE: Well, to be quite honest, this attack is really a surprise, because we have had such great efforts, especially with the FBI.

Most cases where people have self-radicalized and have decided they're going to make contact with the Islamic State or al Qaeda central, they're usually talking to the FBI. We have found that those pathways are -- generally have been intercepted and that law enforcement has the ability to circumvent these people's radicalization.

But when you have a self-starter who may have just been inspired by one conversation or a few texts, there's very little you can do, I mean, except see whether that snowball turns into an avalanche of him spouting his radicalized beliefs.

This guy didn't until the actual last night of his attack. But he had to do a lot of logistics, get the weapons together, rent that vehicle, get these explosive devices together. But if it's going on in his head, it's very hard to stop a determined attacker. It's -- we really get them when they have links going out and try to get co- conspirators.

KEILAR: Yes, I see you nodding, Juliette.

KAYYEM: I mean, I think there's one thing I want to add to that, which is that is why a defensive posture, the preparedness posture, is so important, because, as Malcolm exactly says, we cannot find all these people, I mean, in terms of radicalization.

Fortunately, it is not every day, but it is enough days. So what do we do? Cities prepare. And they do things to minimize the risk. And that is why, as well as looking into the investigation of him, an accounting of what happened on Bourbon Street.

How did a car make a turn into a -- into a well-known, high-risk, high-density party on New Year's Eve, and get speeds over, my understanding, is 40 miles per hour unimpeded? Because we -- we -- we can't -- we shouldn't pretend like we can't protect ourselves. We certainly can minimize the harm.