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Fred Upton is Interviewed about the Speaker's Race; Families mourn Victims of New Orleans Attack; FBI Believes Attacker in New Orleans Acted Alone; Boeing to Remain Under Scrutiny; Meta's Top Executive Steps Down. Aired 8:30-9a ET

Aired January 03, 2025 - 08:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[08:30:00]

HARRY ENTEN, CNN CORRESPONDENT: So the idea that these two would throw the speakership race into a complete mess, whether there's some real history of that going on here. So, both of these are definitely in play. But Thomas Massie, at this point, is the quote/unquote hell no. And that's probably going to be the last time I use the word hell, at least in this segment, though we'll see.

SARA SIDNER, CNN ANCHOR: Why, thank you, Harry. It's only the third. We - we can't say it more than three times.

I do want to mention, the reason why we know is because they have been public about it. There are some Republicans who have not been so public about it, but privately talking about it. So, what is the chance we end up - Johnson wins on the first ballot?

ENTEN: Yes, exactly right. And as you pointed out, there are others - there are others, at least on the first ballot, who may not vote for Johnson. These are just the ones publicly that we know.

Now, here's the thing to keep in mind. This is the chance that Mike Johnson wins on - wins the speakership. And this is per an average of the betting markets. On the first ballot, its 35 percent. So, that's south of 50, right? Although, you know, it really wouldn't be surprising. One in three things happen all the time.

But here's the key thing, just because he loses on the first ballot doesn't mean he won't win on the second ballot, third ballot, fourth ballot, et cetera. At some point that Johnson wins, its 90 percent.

Now again, that's not 100 percent, but it's far more likely than not. So just because Johnson - if Johnson loses on the first ballot, it doesn't mean that he won't eventually get it. At this point, that seems like the most likely possibility.

SIDNER: Absolutely. Although it shows the chaos of what is happening in Congress, the public doesn't love to see that.

ENTEN: You're correct-amundo (ph).

SIDNER: All right. Thank you. But we do love your chaos, Harry Enten, and you're always welcome

back.

ENTEN: Thank you. Hell, yes, to my chaos.

SIDNER: Oh, yes.

John.

JOHN BERMAN, CNN ANCHOR: All right, with us now is Fred Upton, former Republican congressman from Michigan.

Congressman, always great to see you.

So, you've been around for one at least of these mad scrambles for speakership before. What happens behind the scenes on mornings like this?

FRED UPTON (R), FORMER U.S. REPRESENTATIVE: Well, this is a little bit like a used car salesman, or maybe a regular deal - dealer at - at the auto - auto place. The speaker's going to say, OK, what is it - how is it that I can get your vote? How is it that I can sell you this car? So, there's a lot of deal making now.

We saw that with Kevin McCarthy two years ago. They were the subcommittee chairmanships offered. There was a - there's a - there's a slew of bennies (ph) that - that can be offered that might perhaps sway a member to say, OK, I'll vote for you, whether it's the 10th ballot or the 15th ballot.

So, let's look at the folks that - that Harry just talked about.

You know, Chip Roy. Chip Roy is on the Rules Committee. He's made it known that he'd like to be chairman of that committee. That is a committee spot that is actually determined solely by the speaker of the House. And it may be in play, particularly if it's the second, third or maybe even the fourth ballot.

Now, what is it that the others might want? Maybe it's a subcommittee chairmanship someplace. You know, maybe it's a spot on the Intelligence Committee, a pretty high standing spot that most members would welcome a chance to participate in.

So, you got to look at absentees today. You know, I was there in '99 when Speaker Gingrich all of a sudden saw that he didn't have the votes. And rather than go through this, you know, drama for sure that we're going to go through today, maybe, but certainly two years ago, he suddenly withdrew and his likely successor was Bob Livingston.

Well, Bob Livingston had made a big point of Bill Clinton during the impeachment there with Monica Lewinsky. And, sure enough, Bob Livingston had an issue on the personal side that got exposed. And with a - with a little bit of fanfare, Livingston took himself out of the running and all of a sudden we ended up with Denny Hastert, a guy who, when he went to the office that morning on January 6th, had no idea that all of a sudden he'd be second in line to the presidency when we had the vote later that afternoon.

So, there's a lot of drama today. We'll - we'll see how it happens. It's going to be a really razor thin, as we all know, as Harry pointed out.

BERMAN: What do you think that Mike Johnson should be wary about promising or giving up or deal making? Where do you think he'll draw that line on deal making?

UPTON: Well, I think most - 99 percent of my - my colleagues there, Republican colleagues, don't want to go through this again. There was a big black eye on the Republican House conference two years ago, 15 ballots. I mean, we went, what, two weeks almost it seems. But January 6th, Monday is the day that they count the votes for the - the Electoral College. They don't want to have that screwed up. Nothing can happen until a speaker is determined.

And, of course, January 6th is in the Constitution as well. It sets the whole stage for the January 20th and the 47th president. So, they got to get this thing done either today or tomorrow. There will be a lot of meetings. There could - they may need to call in some orthopedic surgeons to come look at some of the broken arms and legs that come about.

[08:35:03]

But at the end of the day, I agree with Harry, a 90 percent chance that Johnson will be - be the speaker. But - and - and just about everyone will say, you know, you got to do what you got to do to get the votes to get this thing done.

BERMAN: What does it say about his speakership if there are trails of broken arms and legs that got him to that post by the end of today?

UPTON: Well - well, you know what, this is going to be the case for the next two years. The margin is very slim, and you're going to lose three House Republicans a little bit later, probably later this month, when they take appointments into the new administration. So, the margin will even be less than that. Then, God help us if somebody gets sick or, you know, killed, like my former colleague, Jackie Walorski, was killed in a car accident with her constituents a few years ago. All of a sudden that margin can really change.

And - but, you know, whether it's the debt ceiling, whether it's the continuing resolution, whether it's immigration, whether it's amendments, I mean a whole number of different things that are going to come up that will be on the front burner where Johnson's margin will only be one vote, maybe even less than that, in the months ahead.

So, this is going to be a Congress that's going to take a lot of attention by the speaker literally on every single vote. That whip is - is going to have to be really good at counting votes, otherwise there will be some real surprises at the ranch.

BERMAN: Yes, look, whatever pain there is today, it's only the beginning. UPTON: Yes, that's right.

BERMAN: All right, former Republican Congressman Fred Upton, always great to see you. Happy New Year.

UPTON: Yep.

BERMAN: So, this morning, new photos of the suspect and the coolers filled with explosives that authorities believe he planted ahead of his deadly New Years Day attack.

Apple has agreed to pay $95 million to settle a proposed class action lawsuit. Why? Some say Siri violated their privacy.

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[08:41:04]

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: And remember those affected by the horrific acts of violence that occurred yesterday morning in the French Quarter here in New Orleans.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BERMAN: A moment of silence at the Sugar Bowl to honor the victims of the New Year's Day attack in New Orleans.

We are learning new information about some of the victims. CNN's Danny Freeman has the latest.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

CHRISTINA BOUNDS, COUSIN OF MATT TENEDORIO: My grandma, grandpa, everybody is just crying, wailing together. And yesterday my grandma cried nonstop for eight hours. Like, we just can't believe it.

DANNY FREEMAN, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice over): Twenty-five-year-old Mat Tenedorio was from Slidell, Louisiana, the youngest brother of three. Loved working with his dad at the Superdome. Matt had dinner with his family earlier on New Year's Eve, and his cousin said Matt was not hit by the truck that night but died from a gunshot.

Matt's mother, devastated.

BOUNDS: She wanted people to know that he was so lovable and kind and that he liked skateboarding, you know, and he loved his niece and nephews and, yes, and that they're heartbroken.

FREEMAN (voice over): Matt is just one of 14 who were killed in the New Year's Day morning horror on Bourbon Street.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: They mattered. The families matter. And matter to the city of New Orleans. FREEMAN (voice over): Thirty-seven-year-old Reggie Hunter was a father

of two, an 11-year-old and a one-year-old. He was from Baton Rouge, Louisiana.

TRAVIS HUNTER, COUSIN OF REGGIE HUNTER: Reggie was a beautiful person inside and out. To know Reggie was to love Reggie.

FREEMAN (voice over): Reggie survived the initial attack, but passed away at the hospital from internal injuries.

HUNTER: He could change the environment in the room. Always smiling. Just a pure person. Good, pure-hearted person.

FREEMAN (voice over): Tiger Bech was 27 years old. The former Princeton football player from Lafayette, Louisiana. According to his sister, Virginia, Tiger was walking back to his hotel with his best friend on New Year's Eve when they were both struck. His friend survived, but Tiger passed away at the hospital. Tiger's sister Virginia telling CNN she's heartbroken but evil will not prevail.

Twenty-one-year-old Hubert Gauthreaux was killed in the attack as well. His high school in Marrero, Louisiana, asking the community to "pray for the repose of Hubert's soul, his family and friends during this difficult time."

Drew Dauphin graduated from Auburn University in 2023. "Words cannot convey the sorrow the Auburn family feels for Drew's family and friends during this unimaginably difficult time," wrote the university's president, Christopher Roberts.

The University of Alabama confirmed student Kareem Badawi was also one of the victims. The president of that school, writing, "I grieve alongside family and friends of Kareem in their heartbreaking loss."

We're still learning more about the 14 people lost and the dozens injured on New Year's Day. Parents, siblings, students, locals and tourists, loved and not forgotten.

Danny Freeman, CNN.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

SIDNER: All right, the FBI has now officially deemed the truck attack in New Orleans an act of terrorism. They found materials to make explosives in a house linked to him, and also have him on surveillance video, placing coolers with explosives in them in the French Quarter.

Joining me now to discuss are CNN's senior national security analyst Juliette Kayyem and former CIA counterterrorism official Phil Mudd.

Thank you both for joining us. It is just day three of January. We started off the year with this horrific attack.

Juliette, you wrote this really great piece a while ago about lone wolves. The FBI now saying, look, he acted alone. A lone wolf, if you will. But you've talked a lot about this in the past, and you've argued there are no lone wolves. What do you mean by that?

[08:45:01]

JULIETTE KAYYEM, CNN SENIOR NATIONAL SECURITY ANALYST: I think we may find that in this case. It's essentially - this concept of lone wolf is some guy sitting alone in his room, and he decides all of a sudden, I'm a member of ISIS and goes out in the world and does harm.

What we see now in this kind of terrorism, and why it's so difficult to stop is, there's not that - that sort of organized effort. Think of al Qaeda, say, pre 9/11. You know, people meet somewhere, they plan an attack, they then deploy. This is, through the use of social media, back-channel communications, or just the absorption of someone who goes online of what ISIS is selling. And this - we don't know yet whether this was just sort of passive acceptance of what ISIS was - was saying online and what someone should do to - to make their point or show their allegiance to ISIS, or whether there were direct connections with people abroad.

What we do know is that there's no evidence that this was an organized ISIS-planned terror attack, even if its ISIS-inspired. And that - that distinction does matter. It matters for a lot of reasons, especially to the people of New Orleans, who want to ensure that they're safe.

SIDNER: I do want to ask you, Phil, you know, the FBI made it sort of clear that this wasn't a 100 percent inspired by ISIS. What does it tell you about the effectiveness of ISIS' messaging, which really has been physically crippled in places like Syria and Iraq?

PHIL MUDD, FORMER CIA COUNTERTERRORISM OFFICIAL: Persistence over time. If you look at insurgency, counterinsurgency, terrorism over the course of years, some of the most persistent are not based on people who have economic problems, people who have ethnic problems. Some of the most persistent challenges in terms of counterterrorism and counterinsurgency over the decades are people who are inspired by religion because, of course, they believe that God is speaking to them, saying that there's a divine need for you to go act, in this case in Bourbon Street.

So, regardless of whether the geography of ISIS changes, they lose territory in Iraq, they lose territory in Syria, especially in the age of YouTube videos where a preacher can speak to you for years, this persistence of a religious message that says, if you don't act, you're not - you're not living according to the word of God. That's going to be with us for a long time. Religious insurgencies and religious terrorism are really hard to beat, Sara.

SIDNER: I do want to ask you, Juliette, about the FBI saying, look, they have the suspect's three phones, two laptops, but he was in IT in the Army. Do you think the search of his electronics will be made harder because of his expertise?

KAYYEM: It's hard to know because this radicalization process, at least what we know from public records, was relatively quick. And this - this is - to Phil's point is, this is so hard to catch and why we are really looking at New Orleans and their preparedness as well because it takes both stopping the person, but also protecting people, that what we know now is that the radicalization may have been very, very quick. He's dealing with a lot of issues, divorce, money, professional issues.

He's older than your average recruit. And what it appears now is that the military, he may have been fine. It was getting out into the civilian world. He's lost. He needs to find meaning. And as Phil said, ISIS fills that vacuum for some of these people.

So, I'm not sure that the - he may have learned tactics and techniques for the terror attack, but he's - he's relatively an open book now. I mean he posted a bunch of videos right before the killing. He wants us to know he wanted meaning for this attack.

SIDNER: Phil, I got to ask you about the FBI coming out and saying, look, they cannot find a definitive link between the New Orleans attacker and the Army - the member of the Army who - the Green Beret who blew up a Tesla truck in front of the Trump Hotel in Vegas. There are so many strange, I guess, coincidences. Both of them rented vehicles from Turo, which is not a very well-known site. Most people, you know, use other rental agencies. Both of them in the armed services. What do you - what do you make of all this?

MUDD: I know the coincidences look significant from the inside. I would say, as someone who watched a lot of investigations, they seem less significant to me. Let me give you a few reasons why. Targeting. You're looking at a target out in Las Vegas that is not easily identifiable as a target that ISIS might pick. I mean the individual picked a hotel and a Tesla truck. That looks to me like a political target.

The individual doesn't appear, obviously, to have had communications with the attacker in New Orleans. You don't have posted messages from the individual in Los Angeles. So, on the surface you have some linkages, things like, where was the vehicle rented? But when you dig down, if you have no communications, the targets look dissimilar.

Obviously, we have a car bomb versus a vehicle used as a murder weapon.

[08:50:04]

To me, some of those significances fall away. There are a lot of differences here, too, I think, as a - as a guy who watched a lot of investigations.

SIDNER: That's why you did what you do and I do what I do.

Phil Mudd and Juliette Kayyem, thank you both.

MUDD: Thanks.

SIDNER: I hate to have to say Happy New Year to you, but this has been a really rough beginning to the start of the new year here in the country. Thank you.

John.

BERMAN: All right, this morning, the outgoing FAA chief is insisting that Boeing will remain under close federal scrutiny. Mike Whitacre wrote, "our enhanced oversight is here to stay." It's almost the one year anniversary of the mid-air blowout of an Alaska Airlines door plug. The incident led to multiple allegations of shortcuts in safety protocols at Boeing.

CNN aviation correspondent Pete Muntean has been covering this from the beginning.

So, why this note now, and what's the significance for Boeing going forward?

PETE MUNTEAN, CNN AVIATION CORRESPONDENT: You know, John, hard to believe it's been almost a year since that dramatic door plug blowout, January 5, 2024. Not only one of the most significant incidents on a U.S. airline in the last decade, but it really kicked off this scrutiny of Boeing's quality control, which is still playing out. And now the head of the Federal Aviation Administration insists that will not stop, even though he is days away from leaving his job.

FAA Administrator Mike Whitaker is leaving his post on Inauguration Day, only 15 months into a five-year term. It is essentially the top federal job overseeing Boeing. And in a new letter, Whitaker says Boeings turnaround is not over yet.

Remember, the FAA did a massive audit of Boeing's production line, flooded Boeing's Renton, Washington, plant with inspectors. The same factory that that brand new 737 Max 9 was delivered to Alaska Airlines without the four critical bolts that held the door plug in place.

Whitaker says this in this new letter. "This is not a one-year project. What's needed is a fundamental cultural shift at Boeing that's oriented around quality above profits. That will require sustained effort and commitment from Boeing and unwavering scrutiny on our part."

The big question now is who will lead that federal effort? And Whitaker says he has "the utmost confidence that the agency's highly skilled and deeply committed team of safety professionals will continue to apply the rigorous oversight required to make sure this happens after my tenure as administrator ends."

Though, it will be up to President-elect Donald Trump's second administration to nominate someone who could get confirmed by the Senate. That job has really been in the spotlight the last few years, and the rumors are flying right now, but no clear successor to take the reins at the FAA and the top job in holding Boeing accountable.

John.

BERMAN: All right, Pete Muntean, thanks so much for sharing your reporting on this, this morning. As always, great to see you and Happy New Year.

This morning, Facebook parent company Meta is making a major leadership change. New details on what they're doing and why it really all looks like a move to curry favor with Donald Trump.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[08:57:13]

BERMAN: All right, new this morning, Facebook's parent company is shaking things up at the top in what looks like an effort to curry favor with the incoming Trump administration. One senior executive is being replaced with a well-known Republican.

CNN's Clare Duffy is here. This doesn't feel like a particularly subtle move, Clare.

CLARE DUFFY, CNN BUSINESS WRITER: Yes, the timing is, you know, you can't ignore the timing here. This is Meta's top policy job, chief global affairs officer. It has been held by former U.K. Deputy Prime Minister Nick Clegg, who joined the company in 2018. He announced yesterday that he is stepping down and handing the reins to his deputy, Joel Kaplan, who is one of the company's most prominent Republicans. Kaplan has been working on policy at Meta since 2011, but prior to that he held several key roles, including deputy chief of staff of policy in the George W. Bush White House.

They also announced that taking over for his current role, VP of global policy, is Kevin Martin, another longtime Meta exec who was formerly chairman of the FCC under Bush. And we know this, of course, all comes as Meta is preparing for a second Trump presidency. And as CEO, Mark Zuckerberg has sought to cozy up to Trump. We saw Zuckerberg visiting Trump in Mar-a-Lago after the election. Meta announced it's going to be donating $1 million to Trump's inaugural fund. And Zuckerberg has said that he wants to take an active role in tech policy discussions with the Trump White House. And so, it may have been a decision that Kaplan was better positioned to navigate a Republican-controlled White House and Congress than his predecessor Clegg was.

BERMAN: It may just be good business. Like I said, though, not very subtle. Very little of what Facebook has done over the last month or so has been subtle.

The job itself, how big of a job is it?

DUFFY: It is a huge job. It's really one of Meta's most important jobs. During Cleggs' time in the post, he navigated things like concerns that Meta's products were harming young people, questions about foreign election interference, regulatory pressures from the U.S. and the EU is really key. And during the Trump administration, they also are expected to weigh some key policy issues, including, presumably, how to move forward with an antitrust lawsuit against Meta and whether and how to regulate artificial intelligence, which we know Meta wants to be a world leader in.

BERMAN: All right, we are watching these moves play out very prominently before us.

Clare Duffy, thanks so much for helping us understand.

Sara.

SIDNER: All right, are you like me and suspect that your phone is listening to you? Well, guess what? Apple has agreed to pay $95 million to settle a class action lawsuit that claimed Siri violated users privacy by recording people's conversations when they accidentally activated the virtual assistant. The suit also claimed those private recordings were sent to third parties. Apple will pay up to $20 for each Siri-enabled device, such as iPhones and Apple watches.

[09:00:03]

Apple, though, denied all wrongdoing when it agreed to that settlement.