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Any Moment: Pete Hegseth on the Hill for Confirmation Hearing; Special Counsel: Trump was not Exonerated; Democratic Senator Ed Markey to Introduce Bill to Extend TikTok Ban Deadline; Interview with Rep. Dusty Johnson (R-SD) about TikTok Ban. Aired 9-9:30a ET

Aired January 14, 2025 - 09:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

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[09:00:00]

ELIZABETH WAGMEISTER, CNN ENTERTAINMENT CORRESPONDENT: And to be able to share a message of unity. Again, to put the spotlight on the first responders. To hopefully, raise an incredible amount of funds to help these people. Why wouldn't you want to take that opportunity?

And the other point that I want to make is the entertainment industry has been suffering from COVID to the strikes, all of these shutdowns. 99 percent of workers in Hollywood live paycheck to paycheck, and they depend on gigs like these award shows, from the caterers to the florist, to the security guards. So this also provides an incredible amount of work, Kate, while Los Angeles is suffering so greatly.

KATE BOLDUAN, CNN ANCHOR: Yes, absolutely. And we'll continue to suffer. I mean, we're talking years of recovery, especially when you see these images here.

Elizabeth, thank you very much.

A new hour of CNN NEWS CENTRAL starts now.

JOHN BERMAN, CNN ANCHOR: All right. Three breaking stories developing right now. Donald Trump's pick for Defense secretary, Pete Hegseth, on Capitol Hill. We are standing by for what is expected to be a contentious confirmation hearing.

We're pouring over the final report from special counsel, Jack Smith, which was released overnight. Some new details about his investigation in the declaration that Donald Trump was not exonerated. And strong wind gusts sparked a new fire in California. The highest-level red flag warning just went into effect. It's expected to be a treacherous 24 hours.

I'm John Berman with Kate Bolduan and Sara Sidner. This is CNN NEWS CENTRAL.

SARA SIDNER, CNN ANCHOR: In a matter of moments, one of Donald Trump's most controversial cabinet nominees will answer senators' questions in hopes of being confirmed. Pete Hegseth was picked to lead the most powerful military in the world. The Defense secretary nominee is expected to face tough questions from lawmakers on the Senate Armed Services Committee.

Democrats are expected to press Hegseth on a number of allegations against him. Ranging from sexual assault to excessive drinking, to financial mismanagement of a veterans' charity. Hegseth has denied all of those allegations.

And in his opening remarks, he is expected to tell senators, "It's time to give someone with dust on his boots the helm. A change agent. Someone with no vested interest in certain companies or specific programs or approved narratives."

CNN chief congressional correspondent Manu Raju and CNN anchor Kaitlan Collins, both on Capitol Hill.

Manu, I want to start with you this morning. What are you learning there?

MANU RAJU, CNN CHIEF CONGRESSIONAL CORRESPONDENT: This is going to be a very combative hearing as Democrats prepare to really go after Pete Hegseth. Questioning not only his qualifications, but all those allegations from the past. Allegations that Hegseth has frankly denied across the board, whether it's accusations of sexual assault back in 2017, his alleged mismanagement of running two veterans' organizations, as well as excessive drinking and the like and womanizing. He has said that none of that is true, but that will be part of the questioning from Democrats on this committee.

They met last night to talk about their strategy and also about the FBI background report into Pete Hegseth. The only two members on this committee have been briefed on the contents. The chairman and the ranking Democrat, but the rank and file members have not. And that has caused a lot of criticism. Particularly from Democrats who plan to demand to see this at this closed -- at this open hearing now.

And speaking to those members last night, those Democratic members, they contend there are holes in that investigation.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

RAJU: Was this a thorough FBI investigation, in your opinion?

SEN. TAMMY DUCKWORTH (D-IL): No, it was not.

I -- I only know that some of the folks that have the women in his past, women in his life, have wanted to be interviewed but have not been interviewed by the vetters.

SEN. RICHARD BLUMENTHAL (D-CT): I believe that there are gaps in this investigation, in the failure to interview significant sources of information, including possibly his former spouses and the victim or survivor of the alleged rape. And we have no way to verify whether those gaps exist because we have been barred from seeing the report. SEN. CHUCK SCHUMER (D-NY): There are so many questions that are disturbing about this nominee. We hope tomorrow, he is not evasive, and he answers the questions fully and directly, not evade them.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

RAJU: But to get confirmed. Those Democrats are not necessary. In fact, they can all vote against him, and he can still get the job simply because he needs a simple majority in the Senate. It means all Republicans except for three is enough for him to get the job today.

Watch for Joni Ernst. She's the Republican on the Armed Services Committee. Someone to watch. She has not said how she will vote but is considered a swing vote of sorts. How does she respond to his answers? A big question today.

SIDNER: Yes. Thank you, Manu.

Let's go now to Kaitlan Collins. You have some new reporting on -- on just how Hegseth has been preparing. And we've seen his opening statement, two and a half pages, where he talks about restoring a warrior ethos.

[09:05:02]

Give us some sense of what he's been doing. As he's going to face, it sounds like some very tough questions.

KAITLAN COLLINS, CNN ANCHOR: Yes. And his team is fully expecting this to be quite a difficult confirmation hearing, Sara. And that's why Pete Hegseth spent several hours yesterday, I'm told, going over what those questions from those Democratic senators who you heard there, not only just downright skeptical of Pete Hegseth nomination here, preparing for what those questions are going to be, debating how Pete Hegseth should best try to answer them in these hearings.

Obviously, they are time limited when the senators get their chance to ask their questions, but we are expecting them to go over all of these allegations that have loomed over his nomination. Allegations that Pete Hegseth has denied, but that have persisted throughout this entire process, leading up to that FBI background check that, as Manu was saying there, the chairman and the ranking member of this committee are the only ones who have actually gotten to see that themselves. Now, certainly, they've talked about it, but they're the only ones who have gotten to see it.

And in his opening statement that we got a preview of this morning, Sara, that you just mentioned, Pete Hegseth talks about how this process over the last several weeks where he's gone in and met with these senators. This advice and consent process has actually been helpful to him. And that's what I've heard as well behind the scenes, because it's kind of given them a preview into what kind of questions he should expect to face today at this hearing.

Including from people like Iowa senator, Joni Ernst, who has been one of the most skeptical of Pete Hegseth confirmation. She's gotten a little softer in her criticism of him in recent weeks.

And that's the other key thing to watch in this is not just Pete Hegseth, as he's sitting there at this table facing these questions from Republicans and Democrats on the Armed Services Committee, also look at who is in the room behind him, because we do expect his wife to be here. She has been accompanying him to a lot of the meetings that he's had here on Capitol Hill, as he's faced down these allegations about sexual assault and about his past marriages. And so look for her. But also, Republican allies of the President-elect Donald Trump, who are expected to be in that room.

We just walked by the room where this hearing is going to be. I saw several of them standing outside the door. And that is all important here because there has been a pressure campaign that Trump and his allies have mounted, as there's been a lot of criticism of Pete Hegseth of them following up and really trying to pressure any of the senators who might have been skeptical because Pete Hegseth needs all of these Republicans to vote for him on this committee. And so that is something that is key to watch is not just the questions coming from the senators, but also the outside influence of any senators who may be skeptical, any Republicans of voting to confirm him.

SIDNER: Yes. The Republicans do not need a single Democratic vote if they all vote together. So we will see what happens in this confirmation hearing.

Thank you so much to you, Kaitlan Collins. And to our Manu Raju, who is always running the halls and getting answers for the American public. Kate.

BOLDUAN: The other major headline today and also breaking overnight is Donald Trump not exonerated. That is what special counsel Jack Smith says as part of his final report just released into the investigation of Trump's efforts to overturn the 2020 election, detailing in 130 pages Donald Trump's efforts to stay in power. Just as Donald Trump is about to move back into power in days, Smith says in this report that the evidence compiled against Donald Trump was sufficient to obtain and sustain a conviction at trial.

Let's get over to Katelyn Polantz. She's got much more on what we learned in this report. Walk us through what Jack Smith is saying here, Katelyn.

KATELYN POLANTZ, CNN CRIME AND JUSTICE CORRESPONDENT: Well, Kate, Jack Smith looked at the evidence that his team has gathered, and they worked to come up with the decision to charge Trump. They outlined it in this report. It's about 170 pages long. And he says over and over again, we stand behind the charging decisions. We believe that Donald Trump could have faced a jury and that we could have convinced that jury potentially to find him guilty of these crimes, even after the Supreme Court's decision on immunity, giving protections around Trump in the presidency.

One thing that was really notable about the way this report came out, Kate, and there was a court fight over it, is that Jack Smith attached a four page letter in his own voice, describing his teams work and how firmly he believes that this case was appropriate and the work that they did was sound as prosecutors, he says a couple of things that his team stood up for the -- for the rule of law. He says that they worked with decency and the highest personal integrity, praising the prosecutors on that team.

He also says that even though they were under attack, they were being threatened by people supporting Donald Trump. Trump himself was attacking the work of that team. Politics had no role in the decision making that this team did, and that the ultimate decision to charge Donald Trump fell to Jack Smith and Jack Smith alone. And he believes that they did the right thing. Here's a quote from Smith in that letter.

[09:10:00]

"The claim for Mr. Trump that my decisions as a prosecutor were influenced or directed by the Biden administration or other political actors is, in a word, laughable."

So really, an extraordinary assessment, not just of the evidence against Donald Trump that never went to trial in court but was charged against him. There is also this assessment from Jack Smith about why he saw the value in this case.

BOLDUAN: Yes, an extraordinary rebuke of the president-elect, that's for sure. It's great to see you, Katelyn. Thank you for laying it out. John.

BERMAN: All right. Also new this morning, a last-ditch attempt to save TikTok. Democratic Senator Ed Markey plans to introduce a bill to extend the deadline for the TikTok ban here in the United States by an additional 270 days. That ban is set to take effect January 19th, which is like a few days from now. Republican Senator Rand Paul, Democratic Congressman Ro Khanna, also want to extend the deadline.

With me now is someone who feels strongly about this, but I suspect in a different way. Republican congressman from South Dakota, Dusty Johnson. Congressman, thanks so much for being with us. So how do you feel about this effort? A bipartisan effort to extend the TikTok ban past January 19th.

REP. DUSTY JOHNSON (R-SD): I think that it is crazy that we would allow an adversary of the United States to control such a major news outlet. This is not about the content on TikTok. Listen, I get it. People are hungry for their goofy dance videos. There are lots of places they can get that. This is about the fact that we would allow the Chinese Communist Party this kind of access to propaganda channels. We would never have let the Soviet Union buy up the CBS Evening News and The Wall Street Journal. The fact that some are OK with the Chinese Communist Party running TikTok is hard for me to understand.

BERMAN: So Donald Trump just days ago posted on social media, quote, "Why would I want to get rid of TikTok?"

What do you think about that? JOHNSON: Well, he really is talking about the content there. He sees that too many traditional social media platforms have sometimes in a deliberate way, push back against conservative voices, including Donald Trump's. So he understands that TikTok has been a -- in some respects, a platform that's been friendlier to him.

And so, listen, I get it. If we're making an argument about content, clearly the First Amendment really, really matters. And we want to have platforms where people are able to say good things about Donald Trump, bad things about Donald Trump. But this is fundamentally about whether or not we want an adversary to have this much control over how 170 million Americans get their news.

And I would say this, there has been nobody in America who has done more to open American eyes to the threats coming from the Chinese Communist Party than Donald Trump. And for too long, we have been sleepwalking through these threats. So I actually think he deserves a lot of credit with TikTok years ago for helping us understand how problematic this really is.

BERMAN: But you do acknowledge, he was for the ban before he was either against it or impartial on the ban. I mean, he was for the same ban that you basically passed in a bipartisan way in Congress. Now he is saying things like, why would I want to get rid of TikTok? He's, you know, trying to save the app. He says, I'm just not sure he's in the same exact place that you are, congressman.

JOHNSON: No. And he doesn't have to be in the exact same spot I am. Listen, he's a big boy. I'm a big boy. Reasonable people can change their opinions based on new facts or on their consideration of the issue. So, I get it. Everybody wants to drive wedges on the big picture issues about the fact that the Chinese Communist Party is seeking every single day to destabilize our country. Donald Trump and Dusty Johnson are in lockstep. And I would note, this is an overwhelmingly bipartisan issue when you look at the big picture threats from the CCP.

BERMAN: Well, look, we'll see. We'll see if you're in lockstep on January 20th or 21st, depending on what the president does. The reason I think this is such an interesting issue is because, as you say, the stakes are incredibly high. I mean, incredibly high in terms of what China is said to have a direct role in, and also because there is genuine bipartisan disagreement. I mean, there are Democrats who agree with you, 1,000 percent, but there are also Republicans who disagree with you, 1,000 percent. This is one of the few bipartisan issues we have in Washington.

There was a report. Bloomberg is reporting this morning that there are Chinese officials who have been musing about the idea of selling TikTok to Elon Musk. What would you think about that?

JOHNSON: I don't know that I care who buys it. I know Kevin O'Leary, one of the sharks, has been talked publicly about maybe acquiring it as well. Anybody in the world can buy TikTok as long as its' not Iran, North Korea, Russia or China. Anybody else can run it. That's what the First Amendment is about. Let them have their say. BERMAN: Very quickly.

[09:15:00]

JD Vance, who will be vice president in a few days, said that he thinks that Donald Trump should pardon or will pardon nonviolent January 6th protesters, probably not violent ones, although he did say there's some gray area with those who committed acts of violence. What do you think that gray area is?

JOHNSON: Certainly, we can agree that people who trespassed had a very different January 6th. The people who came in and conducted acts of violence. I'm not opposed to the idea of looking at each one of these situations on a case-by-case basis. I think that's only reasonable. We should not in any way condone those people who conducted violence against law enforcement agents or others. And so, I think the vice president generally has this right.

BERMAN: All right. Listen, Congressman Johnson, I appreciate you coming on. Please come back next week. I do think this discussion about TikTok is one of the most important. It's got, you know, 100 million users in the United States. There are a lot of people who care about this on both sides. And you're a strong voice on this issue, so thank you.

JOHNSON: Thanks much.

BERMAN: All right. Sara.

SIDNER: All right. Just in. Strong wind gusts posing a new threat that could once again ground firefighting aircraft dropping water and retardant on the flames. We are also live on Capitol Hill, where any moment now, a confirmation hearing for Donald Trump's controversial Defense secretary nominee will begin. We'll take you there.

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BOLDUAN: Let's go right back over to Capitol Hill. And CNN's Manu Raju has been standing by waiting to see Pete Hegseth as he's heading in for his confirmation hearing. What do you see, Manu?

RAJU: Yes, right now, we are still waiting for him to arrive. I did see him right down the hallway walking in. We see Democratic and Republican senators walking, preparing for this very combative hearing. What we've heard from members going in is that this is going to come down a lot along party lines. A lot of Republicans are defending him, defending him against accusations from his past, as well as Democrats saying that there are questions about his qualifications, whether he should have the job.

Let's -- let's take a second to see if he will actually -- here's Mr. Hegseth now. Let's see if he gets a chance to answer questions. Mr. Hegseth. Mr. Hegseth, so the whole committee see the FBI background check, would you support the whole committee seeing the FBI background check?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Would you get out of the shot, please?

RAJU: All right, so you saw him going in there giving a thumbs up to the crowd. One of the big questions that we have is, who else will see this background investigation. Remember, right now, only the chairman and the ranking Democrat, the chairman, Roger Wicker, the Republican chairman of the committee and the ranking Democrat, Jack Reed, have seen this background investigation into Pete Hegseth.

Democrats say there's holes in that. Republicans say that these Democrats are just looking for controversy right now. But there are a lot of members in the rank and file who do want to see this investigation. And one of the things that the Democrats plan to press in this hearing in a matter of minutes, is to see it. They want to all see this.

And typically for nominees, it's only the chairman and the ranking member who see those background checks. But it doesn't always happen that way. In fact, oftentimes or sometimes in controversial situations like one of the most famous one, John Tower, who was the last nominee, who was actually voted down by the Senate, a cabinet nominee voted down by the Senate over allegations himself of excessive drinking as he was picked to lead the Pentagon. The whole committee at that point did see the FBI background check.

Expect Democrats to point to that in this hearing here. But as I tried to ask Pete Hegseth on his way in, if you support having the whole committee see that background check, didn't respond to that. Not surprising. The nominees often don't respond to questions on their way in. But Republicans are still feeling confident despite all the Democrats ratcheting up their attacks, planning to go after him about everything from the past, about whether he's qualified for the job. Expect a lot of Republican defense behind him, and Republican defense is what he needs in order to get the job. Kate.

BOLDUAN: That's right, Manu. And what we're showing right now, Manu, is just through that doorway that you're standing -- that you're standing by right there inside the committee hearing room. Pete Hegseth is going to be walking in. He may -- he's probably in there and shaking hands with people behind the dais. That's generally what they do before he's going to sit down.

And Manu, explain for everyone, walk through what's exactly going to happen now. Once they gavel in, he's in for hours, likely of questioning. Lay it out for people.

RAJU: Yes, yes.

We expect this to be a very long, contentious affair. First, they'll be opening statements by the chairman and the ranking member. Then there'll be people who will be supporting Pete Hegseth, introducing him as well. The former senator, Norm Coleman, I'm told, will be one of the people supporting, as well as Donald Trump's pick to be his National Security advisor. Congressman Mike Waltz will be actually in here defending him as well. Mr. Waltz just actually, just spoke to reporters moments ago, defended Pete Hegseth service, pushed back against the attacks, that he is not qualified for the job. So then they -- he'll make those statements and then Pete Hegseth himself will deliver his opening statement.

We've seen an early copy of it. He's going to plan to talk about how he plans to try to bring the military back to a lethal fighting force, to defend how he's a much different and unconventional nominee of sorts. So expect him to make his case. And then each of the members, the 27 members on the Senate Armed Services Committee, will get about seven minutes each to question Pete Hegseth and then stopped by the Republican, the Democrat. They're going to rotate, and then there'll be a second round of questioning after that for about five minutes or so. So this is going to be a long contentious affair. Can Democrats trip him up? Will it change any Republican minds? Huge question. As Pete Hegseth, he's trying to get one of the most important jobs in government. A critical moment in his confirmation hearing in a matter of minutes.

[09:25:05]

BOLDUAN: And that -- and its -- and it is all of that wrapped into one Manu that you're hitting on. That's why this is so important. It's not only a controversial pick for a cabinet -- for a cabinet secretary from Donald Trump. This is also Defense secretary is one -- he's going to be running. I believe it's the largest agency in the federal government, an $800 billion budget. And that is why when it comes to the Senate, this advice and consent role and responsibility is so critical. And they do take this responsibility very seriously. This is an important moment for what it's going to look like going forward for Donald Trump's second term.

Manu is standing outside. We're watching the inside right there. We're going to -- we're going to get back to --

RAJU: Senator Wicker. Senator Wicker.

BOLDUAN: Hang on one second. Go back to him, guys.

RAJU: -- this was not a thorough investigation, Senator Wicker.

OK.

BOLDUAN: That's the chairman -- Republican chairman of the committee. We'll get right back to it. A lot happening on the Capitol Hill right now. We'll be right back.

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