Return to Transcripts main page

CNN News Central

Pete Hegseth Questioned in Confirmation Hearing. Aired 1-1:30p ET

Aired January 14, 2025 - 13:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[13:00:00]

WICKER: Without objection, so ordered. Now, Senator Kelly, Senator Rosen got here after the gavel went down. Do you really want to go ahead of her?

KELLY: I am going to defer to my good friend and colleague, Senator Rosen, great state of Nevada.

WICKER: That is a really good decision. Senator Rosen, you are recognized.

ROSEN: And thank you, Senator Kelly. I owe you one.

Thank you, Chairman Wicker, Ranking Member Reed, for holding this hearing.

And Mr. Hegseth, I appreciate your service and your willingness to serve again. However, I am deeply disappointed that you would not agree to meet with me, as other members have said on this committee prior to this hearing, as is the precedent for this committee and others.

So, let me tell you a little bit about what I would have talked about had you made yourself available prior to the hearing. Nevada is home to the premier aviation training ranges for both the Air Force and the Navy, the largest ammunition depot in the world, and the only place in the country where we are able to verify the reliability of our nuclear stockpile without the need for explosive testing.

The Nevada National Guard is one of the few, only few units across the country with the mission of fighting wildfires -- it's for another hearing -- and currently activated to fight the devastating fires around Los Angeles in support of our neighbors.

We, therefore, play a critical role in our national security. And the person who holds the position of Secretary of Defense matters greatly to Nevada service members and our military equities.

But every single person who serves in the military, we have talked about, my colleagues, esteemed colleagues have talked about recruitment and retention. One day they will become a veteran. So, my veterans and the folks who are serving active duty now are concerned about what you think.

DOD does not have jurisdiction over Nevada's 200,000-plus veterans, but I am interested in your views about the service members once they have transitioned out of the military, given the influence you would have while they are in service if confirmed.

In 2019, on the segment of Fox and Friends, you said that veteran service organizations, VSOs -- I'm going to quote, "Encourage veterans to apply for every government benefit they can ever get after they leave the service."

You stated you don't want to, quote, "Be dependent on government assistance from the VA based on injuries or illnesses that might have arisen from your military service."

So, I'm just going to ask you a few yes or no questions about veterans, understanding you don't have jurisdiction, but this is important to our morale, it's important to our recruitment, and it's important to our retention, and it's important to how we respect others in this country.

So, yes or no, please. Do you believe that VSOs are wrong to support veterans in obtaining the benefits that they have rightfully earned and deserve when they sign that line like you did for your service? Yes or no.

HEGSETH: Senator, the veterans deserve the benefits they've earned. I have been in many battles with traditional veteran service organizations...

(CROSSTALK)

ROSEN: So, you would agree that the...

HEGSETH: ...over differences of opinion about how to deliver those services including veteran's choice...

ROSEN: So, yes or no, do you believe VSOs are wrong?

HEGSETH: VSOs is a very broad term. We were a VSO also, ma'am. But some of those services took a traditionally bureaucratic approach.

ROSEN: So, should they be able to obtain -- should they be able to help the veterans obtain the benefits that they have earned, yes or no? Should anyone be able to help...?

HEGSETH: Every veteran should have rapid access to all the benefits that they've earned, absolutely.

ROSEN: Do you believe that veterans should be ashamed for having sought and obtained the benefits that they have earned? Do you think veterans should be ashamed to seek out benefits? Yes or no.

HEGSETH: Senator, I think we should be ashamed as a nation of the amount of veterans that commit suicide because they hit a brick wall.

ROSEN: Do you think veterans should be ashamed? Yes or no?

HEGSETH: They commit suicide because they hit a brick wall of the bureaucracy of the VA.

ROSEN: That is not the question, sir. I'm going to move on. I'm going to take that as a yes.

HEGSETH: And the reformers are not courageous enough.

ROSEN: How about veterans who suffer lasting injuries or illnesses due to their military service? Do you -- do you think they deserve our support and assistance? I mean, your answers to these, they're too broad.

People want to know Are you willing to support our veterans organizations that will help our veterans get every damn thing that they deserve because they signed on the dotted line to keep us safe, just like you did? I respect that. Will you?

HEGSETH: Senator, with all due humility, I don't know that there's anyone this room over the last 20 years that have worked harder to ensure that our veterans are taken care of. It's been a passion of my life...

(CROSSTALK)

ROSEN: So, do you think veterans are dependent on the...

HEGSETH: ...alongside with so many on this day is to make sure that veterans receive -- and it is a recruiting crisis.

ROSEN: But you said the veterans are dependent...

HEGSETH: When veterans are not treated well...

ROSEN: ...on the government.

HEGSETH: ...they don't want their sons and daughters...

ROSEN: You said that veterans are dependent on the government. Do you believe that veterans getting these benefits are dependent on the government? Or do you believe it's a benefit they've earned and deserve through their service?

HEGSETH: It's a benefit they've earned in a hand up...

ROSEN: But these are your words then.

HEGSETH: ...the next chapter of their lives, absolutely.

ROSEN: So, you have again changed your position where you believe the veterans are dependent; now, you believe they've earned and deserved it. I just think it's disrespectful to change that position.

These are -- these are benefits that people may need throughout their life, and may not know when they need them or how they're going to need them, and they need to be there when they do. Thank you.

[13:05:00]

I'll move on to my next question. America's role in the world. Our alliance, as the threats America's facing, they're serious or wide- ranging from China to Russia, to Iranian-backed terrorism. So, do you agree with the national defense strategy that the U.S. cannot compete with China, Russia, and their partners alone and, certainly, cannot win a war that way? And this is a quote from the National Defense Strategy.

Is your interpretation that American first foreign policy is America alone? Does that include abandoning our allies and partners such as NATO, Taiwan, Israel and others? And if we can't win alone and we don't strengthen our strategic partnerships, I would say that position -- your position -- places on a strategic path to lose to our adversaries.

So, maybe you're OK with choosing that path for America. I want to know how you square that position with the positions you articulated in your book where you wrote that NATO is that relic, at best a distraction and should be scrapped and remade. Are you OK with sending us down a path where we can't win?

HEGSETH: Senator, the world has had -- our friends in the world have had no better ally. Our allies and partners have had no better friend than President Donald Trump who's really invigorating the NATO alliance...

ROSEN: I'm not talking about President Donald Trump.

HEGSETH: ...who stood behind Israel...

ROSEN: I'm talking about your words.

HEGSETH: ...in ways this administration has not. He has ensured that the NATO alliance has become far more robust. He worked with allies in the pacific as well.

ROSEN: Donald Trump stand behind Ukraine? Is Donald Trump going to stand behind Ukraine? Are you going to stand behind Ukraine?

You say he's the strongest president, President-elect Trump said he will end the war in Ukraine before he takes office. OK, so less than a week before he's inaugurated to the best of your knowledge. Do you have knowledge of a plan that he's going to use to rapidly end the war with Ukraine?

Do you believe it's feasible that it does not make unacceptable concessions to Vladimir Putin who is a brutal dictator? And are you going to give President-elect Trump the military advice that you have given others to achieve the objective of us winning the war in Ukraine?

How do you think a rapid end to the war that Vladimir Putin started will affect the United States standing across the world? HEGSETH: Senator, I will always give clear guidance, my clear guidance, best guidance to the president of the United States on matters like that.

ROSEN: Do you think that if we concede to Vladimir Putin that that will hurt our credibility with our allies and partners? And do you not believe that our adversaries are watching?

WICKER: Perhaps, you can take that for the record, Mr. Hegseth.

Senator Schmitt ?

SCHMITT: Thank You. Mr. Chairman. I'd like to submit for the record a letter submitted by Mr. Christopher Ahn, the former Director of Operations for Vets for Freedom.

Mr. Ahn, his letter states that the suggestion, quote, "The suggestion that funds were misused for personal gain, lavish parties, or other improper purposes is categorically false. Throughout my time working with Pete Hegseth, he consistently demonstrated exceptional integrity and leadership."

I ask unanimous consent to enter this letter into the record.

WICKER: Without objection, so ordered.

Senator Schmitt?

SCHMITT: Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

Mr. Hegseth, good to see you here today. Thank you for your service.

HEGSETH: Thank you, Senator.

SCHMITT: And your willingness to serve. I also want to thank you for your clarity in articulating the vision you have for the Department of Defense in restoring an ethos, a warrior ethos, which is in stark contrast to the ethos we've seen the last four years, which is of weakness and wokeness.

And I want to drill down on a few things specifically and exactly how we've gotten to where we've gotten with recruiting and morale. DEI. There's been a little bit of discussion about this. But for those watching at home, DEI is not about giving everybody opportunity. It is rooted in cultural Marxism.

The idea that you pit the room, any room, with oppressor versus oppressed. It's race essentialism, and it is poison. It has no business whatsoever in our military. I think the American people have spoken loudly and clearly about this. They're tired of this. They're tired of woke ideology.

And to my Democrat colleagues on the other side, if you haven't picked up on that, you missed the plot, because that's what November 5th partially was about. And so, let's talk specifically about some of these DEI programs that have been funded. In our academy, specifically the Air Force Academy, it was advised as disfavored language to refer to your mom and dad as mom and dad. OK? Dear mom and dad, I'm writing home -- don't say that. That's insane. We're all just people. You can't say that either.

[13:10:00]

And in an effort to police this, in a 1984 Orwellian novel, there was actually an eyes and ears program to rat on your fellow students who might say mom and dad. Or just say, in a tough situation, you know what, we're all just people. Can't say that.

This wasn't limited, by the way, to our academies. The Secretary of the Air Force, our current Secretary of the Air Force, in a memo from August of 2022, thought we had too many white officers, advocated for quotas. And if you crunch the numbers, that meant that 5,800 white officers who've worked really hard should be fired in the United States of America.

I don't know how we got here. And by the way, the Air Force isn't alone here. The Navy sort of touted a drag queen influencer. This stuff is insane. And people wonder why recruiting has dropped off. And let me just go through a few numbers, then I want to get your comments on how we fix this because it's gone completely off the rails.

In 2022, the Army missed their recruiting goal of 60,000 soldiers by over 15,000. In 2023, the Navy missed their recruiting goals by over 7,000. In 2022, the Air Force couldn't meet their standards, their numbers, even though they lowered their standards. They've lowered their standards to meet numbers they still can't get to.

Mr. Hegseth, we got to fix this. I think what you've demonstrated today is that you have the talent and the ability and the desire to fix it. How are you going to fix it?

HEGSETH: Well, Senator, thank you for the question. First and foremost, up front, you have to tear out DEI and CRT initiatives root and branch out of institutions 100 percent. And then you have to put in Army, Navy and Air Force secretaries and others, civilian positions at the helm who are committed to the same priorities that the President of the United States is, and if confirmed, the Secretary of Defense will be.

Send a clear message that this is not a time for equity. Equity is a very different word than equality. Equality is the bedrock of our military. Men and women, duty positions in uniform, black, white, doesn't matter. We treat you equally based on who you are, in the image of God as an individual.

And we all get the same bad haircuts. You're not an individual, you're part of a group. Equity prescribes some sort of an outcome based on differing attributes that we have that divide us.

What skin color are you? What gender are you? And then infuse that into institutions which manifest in things like quotas, formal or informal, which does what to morale, sends it in the tubes. And it makes people feel like they're being judged by something other than how good they are at their job, which is poisonous inside institutions.

SCHMITT: So, on top of this recruiting crisis, that wasn't enough for this administration. During the COVID hysteria and in their attempt to fire 100,000 people who work for bigger companies because they didn't get the COVID shot, or to mask five-year-olds, they decided also to make this a central plank in their policy at the Pentagon.

Eight thousand well trained -- so, we got a recruiting crisis. Eight thousand well trained men and women were fired -- were fired. Will you commit today, Mr. Hegseth, to recruit these folks back to give them back pay, and give them an apology from the United States government for how they were disrespected?

HEGSETH: Senator, I will commit to this because the commander-in-chief has committed to this. That not only will they be reinstated, they will receive an apology, back pay, and rank that they lost because they were forced out due to an experimental vaccine.

SCHMITT: Thank you. And I'm a limited time. But I just want to say all the talk of experience and not coming from the same cocktail parties that permanent Washington is used to, you are a breath of fresh air.

And again, if you weren't paying attention to what this election was all about, it was about the disruptors versus the establishment. And the American people have had enough of business as usual for the same people that we line up for these same jobs who give us the same results.

We need somebody who's going to go in there and fight for innovation, fight for change. I think you're that person. And I appreciate your willingness to sit here and listen to some of these undignified attacks. It's ridiculous. Thank you.

WICKER: Captain Mark Kelly, you're recognized.

KELLY: Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Congratulations on your chairmanship. I want to make a request to the committee that we have a second round of questions.

[13:15:00]

WICKER: Pursuant to the bipartisan staff agreement that we reached late last year, this will be one round of seven-minute questions.

KELLY: All right. Thank you. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

WICKER: I'll be happy to recognize my colleague, Mr. Reed.

REED: I think it's important to note for the record that when Secretary Hagel was here, we had three rounds of questioning. When Secretary Carter was here, we had two rounds of questioning.

And I cannot recall any time where I have denied, as a chairman, a member to ask for a second round and receive the second round. So, we are, I think, violating the principles of the committee. And I just want to go on the record.

WICKER: And your comment is noted.

REED: Thank you.

KELLY: Mr. Hegseth, thank you for being here today. Thank you for your service to this country.

HEGSETH: Thank you, Senator.

KELLY: Few nominees come into this room with all the necessary experience to do this job, to be Secretary of Defense. We get that. It's a reflection on just how big of a job this is. What I want to understand is whether or not you bring any of the necessary experience that this job requires.

And here's where I'm concerned. Senator Coleman introducing you, and this is a quote, he said, he has struggled and overcome great personal challenges, unquote. You walk in here saying that you've had personal and character issues in your past, including heavy drinking, which you wrote about.

And you said, and this is a quote from you that you said, I sit before you as an open book. Yet you haven't actually said what personal challenges it is that you've overcome when you've been asked about them. So I'm going to give you an opportunity here to be as forthright as you say you want to be.

So while leading Concerned Veterans of America, there were very specific cases cited by individuals about your conduct. I'm going to go through a few of them, and I just want you to tell me if these are true or false. Very simple.

On Memorial Day 2014, at a CVA event in Virginia, you needed to be carried out of the event for being intoxicated.

HEGSETH: Senator, anonymous smears.

KELLY: Just true or false. Very simple. Summer of 2014, in Cleveland, drunk in public with the CVA team.

HEGSETH: Anonymous smears.

KELLY: I'm just asking for true or false question. True or false answers. An event in North Carolina, drunk in front of three young female staff members after you had instituted a no alcohol policy and then reversed it. True or false?

HEGSETH: Anonymous smears.

KELLY: December of 2014, at the CVA Christmas party at the Grand Hyatt at Washington, D.C. you were noticeably intoxicated and had to be carried up to your room. Is that true or false?

HEGSETH: Anonymous smears.

KELLY: Another time, a CVA staffer stated that you passed out in the back of a party bus. Is that true or false?

HEGSETH: Anonymous smears.

KELLY: In 2014, while in Louisiana on official business for CVA, did you take your staff, including young female staff members, to a strip club?

HEGSETH: Absolutely not. Anonymous smears.

KELLY: So is it accurate that the organization reached a financial settlement with a female staffer who claimed to be at a strip club with you and there was a colleague who attempted to sexually assault her? Was there a financial settlement?

HEGSETH: Senator, I was not involved in that. I don't know the nature of how that played out.

KELLY: But you understand there was a financial settlement for a young female staffer who accused another member of the organization, not you, of sexual assault in a strip club.

HEGSETH: We have multiple statements on the record referring to that...

KELLY: But you claim you were not there when that occurred.

HEGSETH: Absolutely not.

KELLY: Now, the behavior I cited, if true, do you think that this behavior of intoxication going into these type of establishments, women on your staff being so uncomfortable that they have to file these sort of harassment claims. Do you think this is appropriate behavior for a leader?

[12:20:00]

HEGSETH: Senator, well -- Senator, the overwhelming majority of anyone who's worked for me, including the on the record statements that have been submitted to this with their name on it, on the record men and women who worked with me every day, are the overwhelming preponderance of evidence that testify to my leadership and professionalism in leading Vets for Freedom and Concerned Veterans for America. My leadership has been completely impugned on these veterans organizations that did fantastic work...

KELLY: Mr. Hegseth, I'm not even going to go into the...

HEGSETH: (Inaudible)

KELLY: I'm not even going to go into the accusations...

HEGSETH: ... our financial books with integrity across the board. How many people -- everybody who runs a campaign...

KELLY: I have limited time. I'm not going to get into the accusations that come from Fox News. Now, you have some of your Fox News colleagues here. There are multiple instances of accusations against you about drinking on the job.

HEGSETH: All anonymous, all false, all refuted by my colleagues who I worked with for 10 years at 6 a.m. to 9 p.m. and everything...

KELLY: The challenge here for me, Mr. Hegseth, is when there is discussion about personal challenges and you admittedly had issues with heavy drinking. It's hard to kind of square this, to square the circle here. It's kind of a difficult thing to do. Let me ask you if I have about 90 seconds left here. If you had to answer these questions about sexual assault against you and your drinking and your personal conduct, would it have been different if this -- if you were under oath?

HEGSETH: Senator, all I'm pointing out is the false claims against me.

KELLY: OK. I take it you do not want to answer that question.

HEGSETH: I walk in -- walked into this hearing this morning concerned that you haven't demonstrated adequate leadership in your civilian roles. And this is a dangerous world we're living in here, and America cannot afford a Secretary of Defense who is unprepared for that mission.

I'm going to leave with concerns about your transparency. You say you've had personal issues in your past, yet when asked about those very issues, you blame an anonymous smear campaign, even when many of these claims are not anonymous. Which is it? Have you overcome personal issues or are you the target of a smear campaign? It can't be both.

It's clear to me that you're not being honest with us or the American people because you know the truth would disqualify you from getting the job. And just as concerning as each of these specific disqualifying accusations are, what concerns me just as much is the idea of having a Secretary of Defense who is not transparent. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I yield back my two seconds.

WICKER: Thank you, Senator Kelly. I would at this point ask unanimous consent to introduce into the record letters by Tina Kingston, Louisiana State Director of Concerned Veterans for America, and Holly Talley, Louisiana Local Director of Concerned Veterans for America, attesting to the appropriateness of Mr. Hegseth's conduct with regard to female staffers. Without objection. That is added to the record. And Senator Banks, you are now recognized.

BANKS: Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Welcome Mr. Hegseth, you have conducted yourself very well today. In fact, so well that I believe it's incumbent upon this Committee to confirm you ASAP to get you on the job to clean up the mess that we have at the Pentagon ongoing at this moment because of the leadership there over the last four years that's failed us.

In President Biden's first year in office, the Department of Defense spent over five million man hours on, quote, unquote, counter extremism and diversity training, what you and I might call woke training or DEI. The administration has refused to provide us any more recent data than that first year, but we know that it's exponentially more man hours wasted on DEI over the last four years.

And I wonder, what do you make of that? What could those five million man hours in that first year of Secretary Austin and President Biden's administration, what could those five million man hours have been used for?

HEGSETH: Senator, that's a lot of service members sitting in a lot of briefs hearing about a lot of threats or political perspectives that might be dangerous, that comport -- do not comport to threats that actually exist inside the force or ideas that introduce critical race theory or DEI or climate change initiatives that they and their commands have to conform to. And every time one of those happens, it gets pushed down the chain of command.

[12:25:00]

That also includes new layers of leadership that have been created under this administration committed to enforcing those types of DEI and CRT initiatives. So we hear five million man hours, and that sounds like a lot. The more troubling aspect is how many training hours that takes away from a company commander or battalion commander or wing commander who's out there trying to maintain their force, which is already constrained because of what the Biden administration has done to the defense budget and defense capabilities.

So they're having to choose between the political prerogatives of the civilians who are demanding more DEI and CRT and gender quotas and the readiness of their forces. And I believe this Pentagon is prepared because of our Commander in Chief for a Secretary of Defense, should I be confirmed, that focuses -- laser focuses on these issues and they're ready to respond. They want to pack their rucksacks and go train because they understand we live in a dangerous world.

BANKS: I think that's an important point, a key point, because months later, while the priority of the Biden-Austin led Pentagon was on DEI and woke training, one of the biggest embarrassments in American history happened when we lost 13 of our heroes in the botched withdrawal from Afghanistan.

Secretary Austin testified before the House Armed Services Committee a couple of years ago and responding to a question from me, said he had, quote, no regrets about what happened in Afghanistan. I wonder, what do you make of that?

HEGSETH: Senator, shameful. They still tout it as the most successful airlift in American history when what the rest of us all saw was true, laid before our eyes, utter failure, a destruction of a military legacy there. Abandonment of our allies, death of American troops, detriment to our reputation and then no answers and no accountability on the other side.

And then what was unleashed because of what happened in Afghanistan, the October 7th attacks, an invasion into Ukraine. The world recognized weakness for what it was. And who bore the brunt for it? The troops on the front lines at Abbey Gate doing an impossible job, whose external security was the Taliban. Because there was no actual plan for this under the Biden administration.

And yet not a single person -- the only person held accountable in those moments was a Marine Corps lieutenant colonel who had the courage to stand up and say someone should be held accountable for that. His name is Stuart Scheller. No one else involved has ever taken accountability for it.

When that microcosm becomes the reality of the perception of the American military or America's commitment to victory and success and positive outcomes, the world responds to that. President Trump is going to restore real deterrence by bringing a real warrior culture back, rebuilding our military and ending wars properly. And if we have to, fight them, winning them decisively.

BANKS: I served in Afghanistan. You served in Afghanistan. 75 percent of our nation's veterans disagree with how the withdrawal from Afghanistan was handled. The embarrassment of it, what that's done, I believe, has directly impacted our historic recruitment crisis in this country, without a doubt, and you've already talked about that.

But how do we fix it? How do we bring pride back to wearing the uniform for the next generation, to inspire them to do what you and I did, to raise our right hand and take that oath and serve this great country?

HEGSETH: I really do think it comes back to strong, clear leadership, patriotic, pro-American leadership that says we're not going to focus on all the other political prerogatives. That's why we all have political perspectives. I said this before, and I'll say it again in uniform, none of that matters. You wear green, you wear blue, you bleed red. That's it.

Who you vote for doesn't matter. But when the perception of that changes, then you don't want people deciding whether to serve based on a political party in power. That's a dangerous thing for continuity inside your military, and it's fragile right now.

President Trump and if I'm confirmed, with my leadership, we're going to restore the continuity of an apolitical military that acts decisively and only based on merit...

BANKS: You and I...

HEGSETH: ... they sound basic, but they're fundamental.

BANKS: You and I agree that wokeness is weakness. Mr. Hegseth, do you support racial quotas in recruitment or promotions in the United States military?

HEGSETH: Senator, I do not support any form of racial quota.

BANKS: Do you support affirmative action at our nation's military academies?

HEGSETH: Senator, I only support hiring and promoting and admitting the best and brightest, whatever their background is. BANKS: I think that's -- that's very important. Mr. Hegseth, Lloyd Austin, the secretary, later went AWOL. He disappeared for days and never told the President. Didn't even inform the President's Chief of Staff that he was going into the hospital. Would that ever occur on your watch?

HEGSETH: No, Senator. I know in any one of my jobs, if I had decided to go AWOL for even a day or two in uniform around that that would have been a concern.

BANKS: I believe accountability matters.

[13:30:00]