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Hegseth Grilled on Qualifications, Views on Women in Combat; Hegseth Grilled on Sexual Assault And Alcohol Abuse Allegations; Highest Fire Weather Risk Level Issued For 2M+ L.A. Residents. Aired 2-2:30p ET

Aired January 14, 2025 - 14:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[14:00:00]

OREN LIEBERMAN, CNN PENTAGON CORRESPONDENT: -- of experience was very much on full display for the Committee and essentially the reaction to that broke down on partisan lines. Democrats effectively appalled by it and said that it showed he didn't have the experience to do the job of defense Secretary. Republicans, however, focused on something completely different, his commitment to war fighting, and said he's exactly the right guy.

But on the point you make, he was asked about three international security agreements that are sort of a bedrock of how the U.S. operates internationally. He couldn't name them. He tried to say NATO, but a Democratic senator shut him down there and said, one is a Status of Forces agreement which allows U.S. service members to operate in other countries. They effectively set a series of rules and regulations by which U.S. service members can be in that country. And he wasn't able to name that.

The Democratic senator there pointed out that it was an example of his lack of experience. He may have led two nonprofits, but he hasn't come anywhere close to leading an organization of this magnitude with this reach, with this power. So that was one example of that point.

He has also openly advocated, including, I believe in his recent book the War on Warriors for the Firing of General CQ Brown, when he was asked fairly close to the end of the hearing if he would advocate for that or try to make that happen if and when he's confirmed, he effectively tried to go back to something.

A point he made repeatedly is that his goal was to get it back to a meritocracy where officers are promoted based on merit and their qualifications. So he didn't answer the question of whether he would try to fire the top U.S. general, an officer he has repeatedly said or accused of perceived wokeness.

To the point you made right at the beginning here on the status of women in combat roles, that took up a big portion of the beginning of the hearing he has advocated and said women should be barred from combat roles. He showed a bit of contrition when he was first asked about that, saying instead that he supports all people of all genders and all races being able to serve in roles. And it's just a question of whether you're truly qualified and have the abilities to do that role. And yet it is no surprise, Dana, that he was repeatedly attacked on that for his previous statements. It was Senator Elizabeth Warren who pointed out that it's been about 30 days since he last argued for barring women from combat roles. And he seems to have had quite the transformation here. I think she called it a nomination conversion.

DANA BASH, CNN HOST: Yeah, I think she did. Thank you so much, Oren. Appreciate that. I want to go back to Kaitlan Collins. And Kaitlan, I think it's important to underscore that it wasn't a sure thing just even a few weeks ago that he would even get this confirmation hearing. It was kind of teetering, unclear whether or not he would go the way of Matt Gaetz, who withdrew his nomination because there was so much incoming.

And yet that didn't happen. The Hegseth allies, Hegseth himself, they were very strategic, of course, led by, I'm sure, Donald Trump and his aides to wage political -- aggressive political campaigns to get Republicans who were on the fence to give Hegseth another chance, at least private hearings during those conversations.

And now that we saw him today, Kaitlan, it was so clear that he gets it, that he understands what the drill is when it comes to working for Donald Trump, communicating for and to Donald Trump. I mean, there was almost a Kavanaugh Esq approach to this hearing in that instead of being totally deferential to the Senate confirmation process, he pushed back and pushed back hard on a lot of the Democrats.

KAITLAN COLLINS, CNN ANCHOR: Yeah, Justice Kavanaugh, I argue those allegations are very different. But Dana, you make such a great point in terms of the effort and the kind of groundswell of support that was put behind Pete Hegseth going into this hearing.

Because you're exactly right when you remind people that it was only a few weeks ago that there was a lot of skepticism even in Trump's own orbit about whether or not Pete Hegseth would survive this long, that his nomination would make it to where he is going to get a vote in a matter of days. We'll wait to see when that vote is going to be. They were even discussing potential alternatives down at Donald Trump's Mar-a-Lago Club in case he did go the route of withdrawing his name from consideration for this role.

But what changed was a huge effort by many people in Trump's orbit and his allies outside of the halls of Congress to really kind of go after those senators who were sounding at all skeptical in their comments to reporters like Manu in the halls of Congress. Senator Joni Ernst was one of those who felt the pressure campaign the most. And you saw some people even talking about primary Republican senators who voted against Donald Trump's nominees here.

And so that's why I noted who was in that room today, because it really did set the tone kind of going into this hearing to see all of those people who were there supporting him and sitting behind Pete Hegseth.

[14:05:03]

I mean, Megyn Kelly was one of the figures just out of the camera shot sitting right behind him there.

And so you saw what that effort is going to look like. It could be a path that they take for other nominees if they come under increasing amounts of fire. But you've heard from a lot of Republican senators who were really looking to how Senator Joni Ernst herself was going to handle this.

I will say that something that surprised me was Secretary Mark Esper, Donald Trump's second defense secretary. His name was not really brought up until the end, even though, you know, a lot of the questions that Hegseth batted down, he said that they were hypotheticals. But Elissa Slotkin, who is the new senator from Michigan there, she was the last Democrat to go and has also served. She maybe had one of the most incisive lines of questioning when it came to past examples of situations that Trump's other defense secretaries have been in.

And Secretary Esper has an entire book that he wrote saying why he resigned in part because Trump wanted to use the military for political reasons. And she was questioning Pete Hegseth that if he was faced with an order like that from President Donald Trump, whether or not he would follow it. And I think that, you know, talking about the allegations against him, obviously there is a reason that the Democrats wanted to go there.

But also if he is going to be confirmed as the next defense secretary, that is something to watch because whether it was Secretary Mattis who was resigned over a disagreement with Trump over numbers of troops in Afghanistan, or Secretary Esper, those were two figures who actually had real on the ground experience with Donald Trump in the Oval Office and serving as his top Pentagon Chief.

BASH: Yeah, no such good points all around. And I know that, as you, I think, alluded to, with the people inside Donald Trump's orbit in Mar- a-Lago were, of course, watching this very carefully and pleased with the way that he performed. Kaitlan, thank you so much. Let us know if you get anything else.

I want to go to a terrific panel. They've been sitting here watching alongside with me and everybody else for the past, I don't know, four plus hours. And before we start talking, I do want to, because we've all kind of referenced since this ended, the Joni Ernst line of questioning. I want to play part of it. Specifically on the question of women in combat.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SEN. JONI ERNST, (R) IOWA: As Secretary of Defense, will you support women continuing to have the opportunity to serve in combat roles?

PETE HEGSETH, DEFENSE SECRETARY NOMINEE: My answer is yes, exactly the way that you caveated it. Yes. Women will have access to ground combat roles, combat rows, given the standards remain high and will have a review to ensure the standards have not been eroded.

In any one of these cases, that'll be part of -- one of the first things we do at the Pentagon is reviewing that in a gender neutral way, the standards ensuring readiness and meritocracy is front and center but absolutely.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BASH: Jeff Zeleny this is, as Elizabeth Warren rightly said, a different, not just tone and tenor but point of view than he expressed not that long ago during the presidential campaign. And the fact that he is expressing this now after he had those private meetings with Joni Ernst, a combat veteran herself, is to me kind of the ball game.

JEFF ZELENY, CNN CHIEF NATIONAL AFFAIRS CORRESPONDENT: Without question. I think Senator Shaheen summed it up as an 11th hour conversion. I mean that clearly is what it is. But this is one of the things that Senator Ernst has been waiting for. Now, she has many other questions, but it's clear that this is what she chose to focus on.

The hearing today, I've covered Senator Ernst for a long time, as have you. This made it easier to support Pete Hegseth. We will see if anything else comes up. But as of now, people around Senator Ernst would be very surprised if she did not support him. She hasn't said that yet, but you could just see by the line of questioning she chose to ask today.

She could have -- I mean, she had many concerns in December about his womanizing, his allegations of drinking, etcetera. This of course is what she focused on, but I think that the -- a lot was learned about him. I think overall as someone who has never been in a confirmation hearing before, he actually handled himself pretty well, talking with some staffers and things.

They thought the smirk was a little bit too much at some point unclear. He did not have some specifics of like members of ASEAN for example, there are 10 Asian countries. So I'm not sure that it was as deep into details as you would get from a second round of questioning. And that perhaps is the biggest takeaway of all.

I recall Chuck Hagel's confirmation hearing to be Defense Secretary in the Obama administration. It went two or three rounds and it was brutal. And he was a fellow senator and senators on the Republican side of the aisle and perhaps even some Democrats really raked him over the coals and he seemed unprepared at some point.

[14:10:00]

Pete Hegseth will not have that opportunity because he largely got through with really simple questions by Republicans, by and large, some tough questions by Democrats. But that's it. And that is pretty extraordinary in and of itself.

KASIE HUNT, CNN ANCHOR: Yeah. I think the reality here is that most of Pete Hegseth's confirmation process was probably asked and answered last year before we ever got to this point. And the question today was really, was he going to make some kind of mistake, especially if it involved his audience of one in the President-elect Donald Trump, that was going to cause some sort of issue that would make it either impossible for Donald Trump to continue to back him all the way, or that would cause some sort of issue with a Joni Ernst.

And I think you're absolutely right that the experience that Joni Ernst had when she seemed to be stepping out and saying, I don't know about this guy because I've had a personal experience with sexual assault.

Obviously, she's a combat veteran in the military and she was publicly out there kind of by herself, and she came in for incredible pressure from MAGA supporters of Donald Trump to the point where she was reported to have asked, how do I get this to stop? Right? The answer is you pick that line of questioning in the confirmation hearing and you'll likely vote for it.

BASH: Yeah. Colonel Leighton, I want to ask you about some of the policy that we heard. We heard a lot of predictable sort of questions, slash comments from Republicans about DEI and about the quote of kind of woke military, which is defined by different people based on where they come from and what they perceive as to be woke.

But we also heard a lot of questions about specific points of view about just worldview and defense policy, which because of all of the allegations about his personal life, his alleged drinking, alleged problems with women, and beyond alleged problems with women, the policy which is so important for this huge role, particularly for somebody who doesn't have a ton of experience the way that other defense secretaries have, maybe didn't get as fleshed out as they would have otherwise.

COL. CEDRIC LEIGHTON (RET.), CNN MILITARY ANALYST: Yeah, I think that's a very key point, Dana, because one of the things that I noted at the very beginning of the hearing, or maybe in the midpoint of the hearing, was the fact that when they asked him about, when the senators asked about the Geneva Convention versus rules of engagement, he actually did not really differentiate between rules of engagement and the Geneva Convention.

Those are two very distinct things. The rules of engagement need to follow the Geneva Convention. He did not seem to know that distinction. So this could be a critical thing because when you look at what a Secretary of Defense has to do when he or she approves rules of engagement for forces in combat, there needs to be an understanding of what the legal parameters are and what the operational mission is.

So you need to combine what the operational mission is, the types of force that you're going to use, the types of weapons you're going to use, not artillery rounds, but, you know, are we going to employ fighter aircraft, are we going to employ naval assets? Are we going to do all of those things? And he really didn't seem to get to that point.

Other things that also struck me were that we didn't really talk very much about -- the senators didn't talk very much about key important issues like Ukraine.

BASH: They got to it a little bit --

LEIGHTON: A little bit.

BASH: Jacky Rosen, Senator Rosen got to it a bit.

LEIGHTON: Yes, she did. But other than Senator Rosen, I didn't really see very much in that direction. And of course, there are, you know, 40 plus million people in Ukraine waiting to hear exactly what the Trump administration is going to do for their country --

BASH: I suspect that when Marco Rubio has his confirmation hearing for Secretary of State, we'll hear a lot more about that. Natasha, I want you to just stop and I want our viewers to listen once again to some of the exchange that the new senator from Michigan, Elissa Slotkin, who is a military veteran, who is a veteran of the CIA, had with him about some of the questions regarding what he views his role as, when and if his boss, the president, asks him to do things that a U.S. military -- active duty, U.S. military should not do in the U.S.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

ELISSA SLOTKIN, (D) MICHIGAN: Do you believe there is such a thing as an illegal order that Joe Biden or any other President Donald Trump could give? Is there anything that a commander in chief could ask you to do with the uniform military that would be in violation of the U.S. Constitution?

HEGSETH: Senator, anybody of any part --

SLOTKIN: Right.

HEGSETH|: -- could give an order that is against the Constitution or against the law.

[14:15:00]

SLOTKIN: Right. Okay. So -- and are you -- so are you saying that you would stand in the breach and push back if you were given an illegal order?

HEGSETH: I start by saying I reject the premise that President --

SLOTKIN: I understand you've done your (inaudible) (1415 0:00:10)

HEGSETH: -- any illegal orders, but at all.

SLOTKIN: But --

(END VIDEO CLIP)

NATASHA BERTRAND, CNN NATIONAL SECURITY CORRESPONDENT: This, to me was probably one of the most, if not the most moments of -- most important moments of this hearing. Because this, when you're talking to people inside the Pentagon right now, these career civil servants, these people who have been serving for decades in the military, this is what they're worried about.

This is what they're talking about, is how is the U.S. Military under Donald Trump in his second term, knowing perhaps that he doesn't have to face another election, is how is he going to be using the military at home? That is one of the most, you know, prescient topics on people's minds right now. And he did not really explain how he would push back against perhaps using active duty troops for law enforcement for example.

He was asked if President Trump were to tell you to send the 82nd Airborne Division for domestic law enforcement at the border or for law enforcement on the streets in cities to call protests. Again, he referred to it as a hypothetical. And he really would not necessarily go there other than to say that he basically rejects the premise that Donald Trump would order anything illegal.

So this is one of the things that we have reported that the military is spending some time now actually discussing informally in conversations amongst themselves at the Pentagon. What are we going to do and how are we going to respond if we see that the president, you know, orders us to send these active duty troops to the border in capacities other than, for example, administrative functions, which that has precedent, law enforcement functions, it really doesn't. And so it's weighing very heavily on them.

And then, you know, I think also the conversation about purging generals and purging flag officers from the military, particularly when it comes to CQ Brown. Again, you know, he said that he was going to review all, every single senior officer is going to be reviewed to determine whether or not they have a place really in the military now.

I mean, talk about politicization of the military, talk about political bias. I mean, that is something that people are going to be very concerned about. Look, we have been -- there are 800 flag officers in the military. Are our political views now that we hold personally or privately going to be subject to a review or some kind of vetting by the incoming Secretary of Defense? That's traditionally not the way that the military has worked, obviously.

So just a lot here I think that again, because there was only one round of questioning they weren't really able to delve much into.

BASH: Yeah, no question. Okay, everybody stand by, because I want to go to somebody who knows what it's like to be in the very seat that Pete Hegseth was in. You see him right there just a couple of years ago. Leon Panetta, former Secretary of Defense, not to mention CIA director and member of Congress from the great state of California. Leon Panetta, good to see you. Thank you so much for being here. How did you think today went? How did Pete Hegseth do?

LEON PANETTA, DEFENSE SECRETARY UNDER PRESIDENT OBAMA: Well, you know, at moments, it was a pretty rough hearing, but, you know, it was pretty clear that he had been pretty prepared to deal with the more controversial questions that he was going to get. It reminded me a little bit of the kind of hearings we've seen for justices of the Supreme Court who are able to provide an answer that is very difficult to suddenly challenge that particular candidate based on that kind of answer. He was giving those kinds of answers that I think, in the end, kind of gave him a chance to be able to push back on a lot of the areas that have raised questions for senators.

BASH: You not only know what it's like to sit in that chair, you know what it's like to run the Pentagon, to be the top civilian at the Pentagon. All of the challenges, all of the experience that you drew on. I didn't even mention the fact that you were Chief of Staff at the White House. I could go on and on.

Maybe you were uniquely qualified, certainly maybe in many cases more so than some of the other secretaries of defense who have been there for Democrats and Republicans. But I'll just ask you point blank, does he have what it takes to do the job that you did at the Pentagon, to be Defense Secretary?

PANETTA: Dana, I think the fundamental issue that every senator is going to have to make a judgment on relates to whether or not he's qualified to be Secretary of Defense. And the primary question that they're going to have to be able to arrive at a judgment at is whether he can be trusted, whether he can be trusted to tell the truth.

Because as Secretary of Defense, your primary role is to tell the truth to the President, to the Congress, and to the American people.

[14:20:08]

I think that'll determine, frankly, whether or not he's able to win confirmation is whether or not senators arrive at a judgment on that issue.

BASH: What do you think?

PANETTA: I think it's a close call, and I think it's going to be a close vote.

BASH: Okay. Mr. Secretary, thank you so much for being here. I really appreciate you giving us your very informed hot take on what we just saw for four and-a-half hours. Hope to see you soon.

PANETTA: Good to see you, Dana.

BASH: We're going to have a lot more special coverage of Pete Hegseth's confirmation hearing ahead.

And we are going to turn to the very dangerous situation in Los Angeles. High winds are fueling fires and a new wildfire is breaking out in Ventura County. The latest on this absolute disaster that's been going on for a week now. Straight ahead.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[14:25:45] BASH: There is increasing concern about the spread of wildfires in Southern California as stronger winds are moving into greater Los Angeles and the entire region around it. For the next 24 hours, the LA basin could see near hurricane force winds again.

Fire officials are calling today a quote, particularly dangerous situation. Just last night, a new fire, the Auto Fire, erupted in Ventura County. Fire officials say it is not advancing but also not contained and they're telling residents to be alert and prepared.

Officials meantime, say they are still investigating the cause of the wildfires, but CNN obtained video that appears to show the moment the Eaton fire may have erupted Tuesday evening. A Pasadena resident captured these images of flames at the base of an electrical tower near his home.

CNN Stephanie Elam is in Pacific Palisades where for now the fire is not growing. Stephanie, what are you seeing and more importantly, what are people who live there and the officials in and around their telling you about their concerns about these winds coming?

STEPHANI ELAM, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Yeah, the fear here is that the winds could pick up and take some of those embers blowing deep inside the Palisades fire area and spread the fire. So there's still not people here. And if you look at where I am, there's not a lot for people to come back to.

I mean, just same thing with the Eaton fire. You go for blocks here and you can see just devastation after devastation. In fact, Cal Fire reporting new data today saying that the Eaton fire is now the second most destructive fire in California's history and now the fifth deadliest. So it's burned through 14,000 acres, 7,000 structures. And then you look at the fact that 16 people have been lost there, according to the Los Angeles County Medical Examiner.

Then you look at the Palisades fire where we are standing, it's the 4th most destructive and the 14th deadliest. But it's larger having burned 23,000 acres and burned 5,000 structures. So obviously the Eaton fire is smaller but way more impactful.

But you can't say that to anyone who lives here when you look at this devastation. This is west side, east side. These communities are devastated and it will take a long time for people to get back here. But this fear of these winds coming up is why they want people to be on alert. And if they live in a place where there could potentially be fire danger, they're saying be ready to evacuate. They want people to take that very seriously here.

Because you just look -- I mean, you can even just look over here on the other side of the street. There's devastation everywhere. And I've gone through blocks and blocks of this today, Dana, where you just see this kind of devastation street after street after street. And in some places, it's even down to their infrastructure as far as, like their center of the town, like here in Palisades. It's just devastating.

And so to be prepared, they want people to be ready to get out if they need to, as they're likely -- we saw with the auto fire starting up last night, there could be other blazes. It may not be here in the Palisades fire. It may not be the Eaton fire. So that's why they want people to be prepared.

BASH: Yeah. And just look, the sun is out, the sky is blue. So sort of discordant with what we see behind you, what you've been describing, and the wind that is expected to come. Stephanie, thank you so much. Appreciate that.

For more information about how you can help Los Angeles area wildfire victims, go to CNN.com/impact or text wildfires to 707070 to donate. We'll be right back.

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