Return to Transcripts main page

CNN News Central

Red-Flag Warnings Expires In L.A. But Fire Danger Remains; Users Flock To Alternative Apps Ahead Of TikTok Ban; Sources: Trump Mulls Plan To Delay TikTok's U.S. Shutdown On Sunday Due To Federal Ban. Aired 2:30-3p ET

Aired January 16, 2025 - 14:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[14:30:00]

BRIANNA KEILAR, CNN HOST: The deadly and destructive wildfires in California have not grown so much over the past 24 hours. Really good news here. This has given firefighters a bit of a reprieve here heading into the weekend.

However, there are dangerous winds in the forecast. They are going to be picking up again next week. We have a live report from California.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[14:34:58]

KEILAR: Thousands of firefighters in southern California have the chance to get the upper hand this weekend, as they are working to contain those Palisades and Eaton Fires.

Red-flag warnings in L.A. County are set to expire here in the next few hours, thanks to calmer winds and cooler, humid temperatures.

But here's the thing, that weather may not last.

CNN's Stephanie Elam is live for us in Pacific Palisades.

Stephanie, officials, I know they're worried about a new round of fire danger early next week. But the good news is they do have a reprieve right now.

STEPHANIE ELAM, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Right. And the fires have not progressed. They've been able to contain them. What they're doing is looking for hotspots, looking if there's any roots that are on fire inside those areas, making sure everything is completely safe before totally knocking these fires down.

But they've made ground on them. That's the good news there. But still, you've got more than 82,000 people who are under evacuation. They have to be evacuated. And more than 90,000 who are under warnings still, as they're dealing with this.

And some of this, I know, is very hard for the residents who want to get back into these neighborhoods, but they're saying it's going to take at least another week. And at the Eaton Fire, where the majority of the missing -- overall,

there's 31 missing and there's 24 missing at the Eaton Fire. So the majority of missing are there.

And they're saying they're taking their time because they are places where they think there may have been people who lost their lives, and they want to be delicate about making sure and handling recovery there.

So it's a long process, along with the fact that, you look at all this, look at all this drama and destruction just right here on the street near the center of the downtown area of Pacific Palisades.

So cleaning this up is also going to take a long time.

In fact, take a listen to a representative of the Environmental Protection Agency, talking just about that.

TARA FITZGERALD, EPA INCIDENT COMMANDER: The U.S. EPA has been tasked by FEMA to conduct phase one household hazardous materials removal in the burn footprints.

We will -- we are beginning this work today. We have personnel on the ground in both the Eaton and Palisades footprints, conducting assessments. We're working closely with state and local agencies to conduct this work.

And the initial phase of household hazardous materials includes removal of the most immediate risk to public health and workers returning to work within the burn footprint.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

ELAM: And that is part of the reason why they're saying we should still wear our masks out here, because we are amongst all of this debris that's out here and how long it's going to take.

The other concern from officials is the chance that, while it's dry January here and we haven't had any precipitation in months, February is usually the wettest month. And so if we do get some precipitation.

Those hillsides up there, all around, once the water falls, it could become a mudslide and take out property like we saw in the Thomas Fire up in Montecito in 2017, 2018.

So there's a helicopter going by. But that's part of the concern.

And then also, even if your house is still standing, like this one, Brianna, all of your infrastructure may not be working. So even for people with homes, there's still a lot of questions about how this will -- how long it will take for them to be able to get back in here and begin to put their lives back together.

KEILAR: Yes. No, we heard that about people over in Altadena. Some of them managed to get back into their homes, but no water, no power, and eventually they had to leave again. Stephanie Elam, live for us from Pacific Palisades, thank you so much

for that update.

[14:38:33]

TikTok is on the clock. The app is just days away from being banned in the U.S. Ahead, the other platforms that are now welcoming users and the concerns surrounding them.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[14:43:03]

KEILAR: In three days, TikTok will be outlawed in the U.S. unless it finds a new owner not based in China or the Supreme Court steps in. As the TikTok ban looms, the popularity of other alternative apps, that's surging, even though some are owned by companies in, yes, China.

The timing on TikTok's exit has grown even more intriguing. We just learned, the day after the ban takes effect, TikTok CEO Shou Zi Chew is expected at the inauguration.

CNN business writer, Clare Duffy, is with us now.

Clare, talk to us about these TikTok alternatives.

CLARE DUFFY, CNN BUSINESS WRITER: Yes, Brianna, what's so crazy is we're just, as you see there, just a few hours really away from this ban. And it's still so unclear exactly what's going to happen with TikTok.

But what we know is that users are really feeling that uncertainty, and they are seeking out alternative platforms. We've seen a bunch of TikTok clones really surge on the app stores this week.

And I want to talk about three of the big ones. The biggest, the most popular this week, by far, is a platform called RedNote. This is a China-based TikTok-like platform. It has short-form videos.

And many American users are joining. Even though much of the content on that platform, including the terms and conditions, are in Mandarin. This app has seen huge growth in the past few days, 700,000 new users in just two days.

And many Chinese users are welcoming American users over from TikTok, offering to teach them Mandarin.

I think we have a good clip that we can play that really captures the vibe on the platform recently.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Dear TikTok refugees, welcome to Xiaohongshu. I know you probably don't understand Chinese, but there are five tips to help you make the most of this app.

First, it's all about lifestyle. You can always find a better way to live, and most comprehensive guide to everything.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

DUFFY: At the same time, many American users on that platform are expressing frustration with the U.S. government and essentially saying, if you take away our TikTok, we're just going to find another Chinese app to join.

Another app that we've seen gain a lot of popularity is Lemon8. This is a more Pinterest-like platform, but it is owned by ByteDance, the TikTok owner.

[14:45:01]

ByteDance really began pushing this in the U.S. in 2023, when talks of a TikTok ban started bubbling up. And now we're seeing -- seeing that gain a lot of steam.

As you said there, Brianna, those two platforms could eventually be subject to the same law that is now set to ban TikTok. So they may not be around forever.

But there are American upstarts as well. Clapper is another one of those big platforms that says it's gained 1.4 million users in just the past week. So really, this race to become the TikTok replacement 1.4 million.

KEILAR: 1.4 million, wow.

All right, Clare, thank you so much for that.

Let's get some more perspective from Theresa Payton. She was a chief information officer in the George W. Bush administration. She's now CEO of Fortalice Solutions.

OK, Theresa, for young people who love their TikTok, I mean, love their TikTok. And you're well aware of how much they love it. But they just don't get why China having their personal information is such a big deal or being able to have influence over them with this algorithm, potentially. Explain it.

THERESA PAYTON, CEO, FORTALICE SOLUTIONS: I mean, they're young and so they don't have the experience of understanding that if I really can understand your patterns of life, that I can probably, using software, algorithms like the one in TikTok and other social media platforms, for that matter, I can, with pretty good certainty, predict what you're going to do next.

Probably even more accurate than you can for yourself, because I'm looking at your patterns of life. And algorithms can collect those patterns of life.

Now, the question here is, what exactly does TikTok have access to now that they've implemented Project Texas? That was the work that they kicked off in 2022 with USA-based Oracle Company to actually separate American data from the rest of the implementation of TikTok. So the question remains, what do they still have access to as it

relates to U.S. citizens?

KEILAR: And I think the key is that, clearly, U.S. officials don't have full confidence that it can be sectioned off. And are they correct in that sentiment?

PAYTON: I think this is a very interesting question that you're asking here. And you're right, it is a little difficult to, quote, "look at a system." You know, it's not as easy as looking at hardware, looking at something physical.

But one of the things they can do is they can do a site inspection of the USA Oracle implementation. And as part of that site inspection, make TikTok USA run through the algorithms and show them how data is collected, where it's stored and how things run.

They could even do something that's called a red team. They could ethically hack that installation. Doing that site inspection and see what kind of results they get.

But it is tougher to do sort of a CFIUS review, if you will, that controlled foreign intelligence. You know, looking at how things actually work. It is tricky to do on systems. But it can be done.

KEILAR: So let's talk about national security threats and kind of what's worse here. On one hand, you just heard us talking about other Chinese apps that people are gravitating toward.

On the flip side, there's this question of, what is President-elect Trump going to do with TikTok once he gets back into the White House?

What if he delays the ban? What if he keeps it up? Which has more of a national security risk, in your view?

PAYTON: Well, what I would tell Americans who are looking at different platforms to use, just because the platform hasn't been named as part of a banned under CFIUS, doesn't mean that it's safe and secure.

It just means it hasn't been reviewed and there hasn't been sort of a finding issued against that particular platform. So it doesn't mean that it's safer or doing more to protect your information.

The next thing that we have to look at is, you know, we're really literally coming up against the clock. We're sort of, you know, are we going to have a buzzer-beater moment here.

Because it expires on the 19th, which means, on the 19th, TikTok should shut itself down unless they're willing to take on potentially kind of legal fees and fines.

And then Internet services providers are supposed to block traffic. And then the phone app stores are supposed to block downloads. Those are all things that would have to happen on the 19th.

The new administration is sworn in on the 20th. So even if there was some type of overturn of the ban, there is sort of this no-mans-land of one day.

So the question is, does everybody ignore the one day and potentially take on a legal battle, a regulatory battle?

Would the Biden administration say, you know what, we're just going to we're going to give a one-time 90-day delay and let the next administration take this over.

[14:50:02]

There is the opportunity they could potentially do that, or will the Supreme Court speak up, or will they let the time go by? They just had a hearing on this on Friday.

And -- but they're -- you know, they're not going to be rushed. But they could say, you know what, we're -- we're not going to allow the ban to take effect until have time to properly deliberate this case.

There's so many unknowns here at this point. I have no idea until it's midnight in the United States on the 19th how this is going to play out at this point.

KEILAR: Yes, the timing is not ideal. I will say that.

Theresa Payton, thank you so much. Really appreciate your perspective.

PAYTON: Thank you.

KEILAR: And coming up, a top-ranking prosecutor in the Justice Department is speaking out. What he's saying to CNN about President- elect Trump's pledge to pardon January 6th defendants.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[14:55:02]

KEILAR: Just into CNN, a Justice Department prosecutor says President- elect Trump should not pardon anyone convicted in connection with the January 6th insurrection.

Let's bring in Evan Perez, our senior justice correspondent, on this.

What did this prosecutor tell you?

EVAN PEREZ, CNN SENIOR JUSTICE CORRESPONDENT: Well, this is Matthew Graves. He's the D.C. U.S. attorney. He's resigning this week, obviously, with the changeover of the administration.

And he's been overseeing the prosecutions of January 6th defendants, 1,600 of which, obviously, the Justice Department was prosecuting for what happened that day.

And I asked him -- we -- Katelyn Polantz and I sat down with him this morning and we asked him about the prospect of -- of pardons which Donald Trump has raised because he believes these people we're unfairly targeted. Here's some of what he told us.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

MATTHEW GRACE, U.S. ATTORNEY FOR THE DISTRICT OF COLUMBIA: A pardon does not wipe away what occurred. There will always be a record of what occurred. There will always be vindication of rule of law. And there's been substantial accountability for hundreds of people involved in illegal conduct that day.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

PEREZ: And he goes on to tell us, by the way, that, you know, this idea that these we're just grandmothers who we're out on a tour and somehow got swept up into the capital is just not true.

He says that there -- obviously, that there were a lot of things that happened before you even got to the capital. You had to go through a number of barriers that say "Police, do not cross."

And so he says he doesn't buy that and doesn't believe that anyone who was prosecuted, especially those who committed violence against police officers, should be pardoned.

KEILAR: That's really interesting.

Evan, thank you so much for that perspective. We appreciate it.

And after a quick break, the latest on the ceasefire and hostage deal between Israel and Hamas. We'll have that next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)