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Live Coverage of Kristi Noem's Senate Confirmation Hearing; Aired 9:30-10a ET

Aired January 17, 2025 - 09:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[09:30:00]

GOV. KRISTI NOEM (R-SD), HOMELAND SECURITY SECRETARY NOMINEE: So, thank you for the opportunity and the honor to appear before you today. Thank you for the meetings and the time that you took in your office to discuss the department and what we can do in the future to make the American homeland much more secure. I look forward to your questions, and I hope to earn your trust, and hopefully also your vote as we embark on this critical work together.

And with that, Mr. Chairman, I yield back.

SEN. RAND PAUL (R), CHAIRMAN, HOMELAND SECURITY AND GOVERNMENTAL AFFAIRS COMMITTEE: Thank you, Governor Noem.

We will now proceed to questions. Each member will have seven minutes. We will have a vote that will start at 10:10 a.m., but we're going to continue the hearing and keep people in line as you come and go to vote. We'll keep the hearing moving.

I want to be clear from the outset that we will not tolerate any disruptions. The Capitol Police have been asked to escort anyone immediately from the room if they disrupt the hearing.

This is a standard question, Governor Noem, that we ask of all nominees. Governor Noem, do you agree, without reservation, to comply with any request or summons to appear and testify before any duly constituted committee of Congress if you are confirmed?

NOEM: Yes, Mr. Chairman.

PAUL: I'm going to reserve the rest of my time for my questions and go to Senator Peters.

SEN. GARY PETERS (D), RANKING MEMBER, HOMELAND SECURITY AND GOVERNMENTAL AFFAIRS COMMITTEE: Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

Governor Noem, the DHS secretary has many competing priorities, as you well know, and you outlined certainly in your - in your opening comments, from our borders, to wildfires, to cyberattacks. But as you and I discussed at length, and I appreciate you bringing it up in your opening comments as well, we do have a northern border, in addition to a southern border, that's absolutely essential, that the DHS has the resources necessary at the northern border to carry out its mission, both between ports of entry and all along the - the border. In fact, we've seen an increase in unauthorized crossings in recent

years at the northern border. So, my question for you is, if confirmed, do you commit to ensuring, along with the southern border, that the northern border is sufficiently staffed to maintain its security and robust trade between the U.S. and its neighbors, including at the Gordie Howe International Bridge in my home state of Michigan, have the resources they need to facilitate trade, while keeping Americans safe?

NOEM: Yes, Senator Peters, you and I talked about this in your office, and also with Senator Slotkin as well, how important it is to continue to remain focused on our northern border and all borders and ports of entry that the United States has. I think there's been some universal concern from some of the committee members that as we focus on the southern border and what we're seeing as far as the invasion there and the amount of people crossing, that the northern border would lose focus. But that - that will not happen. And we will ensure that our borders are secure and we're addressing all threats that may come in from any direction.

And also with the - with the bridge as well, and staffing up on that, that as well. And I've assured Senator Slotkin as well that our focus is there to make sure that it is staffed appropriately.

PETERS: Very good. And as we discussed, the department is diligently working to stand up the Northern Border Mission Center at Selfridge Air National Guard Base in Michigan following the authorization and funding that I was able to secure in the last Congress. This center is critical to supporting the department's northern border security missions and addressing evolving threats. So, a quick question. If confirmed, do you commit to working with me to fully build out the Northern Border Mission Center?

NOEM: Yes, Senator, we will look forward, and I look forward to working with you to ensure that - that that is a priority and that it's adequately resourced and working with Congress and senators to make sure that we have what we need to - to make sure that that mission for that base is fully fulfilled.

PETERS: Great. Thank you.

On New Years we witnessed two incidents that reminded us that terrorism and extremism remain serious threats to all Americans. Both DHS and the FBI have consistently said that the most persistent threat to the homeland is from U.S. based individuals or small groups radicalized by a variety of ideologies, from white supremacy, to ISIS, to al Qaeda. We must certainly continue to focus on people who are radicalized here in the United States with the intent of terrorizing our communities.

So, my question for you, ma'am, is, how do you plan to address this threat of U.S.-based terrorists?

NOEM: Senator, that - this is a grave concern for our country, as we all agree that the number one threat to our homeland security is the southern border. In fact, since Joe Biden has been president, we've seen 382 individuals that have come over that border that are on the terrorist watch list.

I - behind me have the governor of Louisiana with me. And he and his state and people in this country went through a horrific event on New Year's Day. And one that we never want to see repeated again. But this governor behind me is concerned also about an upcoming event, which is the Super Bowl, coming shortly, which we need to do all that we can to work together, that he has the reassurance that the federal government, that the Department of Homeland Security is prepared to help him protect that event and to keep people safe while they are there.

[09:35:04]

Those 382 terrorists are known terrorists that have come over our border. We don't know necessarily where they are because of what has been happening under Joe Biden's policies. Now, President Trump obviously won the last election with a clear mandate, and that mandate is for the American people to secure that border, but also we need to focus on domestic terrorism and homegrown terrorism, which you just referenced in your - in your question.

Homegrown terrorism is on the rise. We see more and more incidents of people that are U.S. citizens that have become radicalized. And knowing when people are leaving the country and coming back and changes to their behaviors and - and what their actions are is critically important. So, the resources that the Department of Homeland Security has needs to be utilized as far as identifying those threats and being proactive to prevent them, but also protecting civil rights and liberties in that process and making sure that the department is on mission to do what it was called to do, why it was created, and what authorities that Congress and the Senate has given them.

My hope is that Governor Landry and his - his staff and his people and the people that attend the Super Bowl know that the Department of Homeland Security is their partner, is on watch to protect them and to keep that event safe.

I hope all Americans know that leadership has consequences. I hope that we can get through and get your support for this nomination to get confirmed quickly so that we can address the threats that we currently face and make sure we don't have any repeats of the day that we saw just starting this year on New Year's Day.

PETERS: In the last two years, we have increased - we have seen increasingly aggressive and expansive cyberattacks against our federal agencies. Just last month, Chinese hackers infiltrated the Department of Treasury and stole potentially thousands of unclassified documents. So, given these concerning trends by the PRC to hold our federal networks hostage, do you believe that federal agencies should be required to implement cybersecurity upgrades and maintain the highest cybersecurity standards to protect sensitive or classified data and U.S. citizen information as well?

NOEM: Well, Senator, the mission of CISA, which is the cybersecurity and infrastructure agency, the mission of it is to hunt and harden. It's to find those bad actors and help work with local and state infrastructure, critical infrastructure entities so that they can help them be prepared for such cyberattacks, and that they can make sure that they're hardening their systems to protect them in the future, recognizing the vulnerabilities that they have.

CISA's gotten far off mission. They're using their resources in ways that was never intended. The misinformation and disinformation that they have stuck their toe into and meddled with should be refocused back onto what their job is, and that is to support critical infrastructure and to help our local and small businesses and critical infrastructure at the state level, to have the resources and be prepared for those cyberattacks that they will face.

You know, Salt Typhoon was a campaign of espionage by the PRC and China against our telecoms, where large amount of data was stolen and taken and people's private information was taken as well. And we've also seen China and the PRC go after our critical infrastructure with the Volt Typhoon hack. And that was extremely dangerous because there was no reason for them to do that, just to steal people's data and information. The reason for them to go after that was to control our critical infrastructure, for the ability to see if they could shut down a water plant, a utility company, and that was to cripple our country.

So, these threats are real. CISA needs to be much more effective, smaller, more nimble to really fulfill their mission, which is to hunt and to help harden our nation's critical infrastructure.

PETERS: Thank you. Thank you.

NOEM: Thank you.

PAUL: Senator Scott.

SEN. RICK SCOTT (R-FL): Governor Noem, congratulations on your nomination.

NOEM: Thank you.

SCOTT: I think you're going to do a great job. I think it's great that you're a governor and you bring, you know, bring that expertise to the table.

So, I just went through the campaign to get re-elected, and it was after the Butler shooting, I had asked people, I said raise - at all my events, I said, raise your hand if you think the acting director of the Secret Service is going to tell us what happened. Not one person.

I said, what about Secretary Mayorkas? You know, he's running HHS. What do you think - our Homeland Security, what do you think? I said how about Christopher Wray, you know, head of the FBI? Not one person.

Can you just talk about in - the importance of transparency and accountability in government and how you're going to bring that to the table? NOEM: Yes, Senator Scott, thank you for that question, because that's

what I have found across the country as well. And I know it's certainly true in my home state of South Dakota, is that people don't trust the federal government.

[09:40:04]

They don't trust our leadership in this current administration that's in the White House right now to tell them the truth. To tell them the truth about what the threats really are about, our agencies and departments, when there are failures, addressing them and fixing it. The Secret Service is - is one of those perfect examples. They - they need leadership that understands why that Secret Service was created and what it needs to do.

There's two elements, really, that the Secret Service is tasked with, and that is protective detail and then also investigations. Yet we see investigators within the Secret Service out there investigating antiquities and other things that are off mission when they should be focused on making sure we're addressing national security events with the protocols that are necessary and protecting the individuals that they're charged with, and getting that skill set and training that are necessary. That's been compromised by not having enough people there and being adequately staffed and resourced.

But frankly, the leadership hasn't been honest about talking about it. We saw this with the drones over New Jersey as well, the federal government not answering the questions from the public. And when they finally got a straight answer out of President Trump, they felt reassured that somebody recognized that this - this was something they were questioning and that they deserved answers.

My goal and my mission is to build trust. We will undertake a large job and a large duty that - that we have to fulfill, that the American people expect us to do, by securing our border, to make sure that our nation is a nation with borders, or we're no nation at all, and that we are making sure that those criminal actors that are perpetuating violence in our communities and in our -- in our cities and towns and states are removed from this country, that there's consequences for breaking the law in our country again. There has to be consequences, because when Americans break the law, there's consequences. And why would we ever allow someone to come in from another country and not allow them and not - not have consequences, or allow them to continue to go forward and to - to commit rape and murders and other - break other laws that - that endanger our society.

So, we've had over 13,000 murders that are loose in this country that have come over that border. We've had almost 16,000 rapists and sexual assault perpetuators that are loose in this country right now, 425,000 plus people have criminal convictions that are here illegally in this country that - that our current administration is doing nothing to round them up and get them out of our country. We will be doing that immediately, and that will be the priority. And that is one of the reasons that today the American people have lost their trust. President Trump will build it back and know that their federal government is accountable to them and is working to put America first again.

SCOTT: So, Joe Biden completely opened our southern border and dismantled our entire immigration system. As a former governor, I know that when the federal government policies are broken and failing Americans, you see the impacts in your state, just like I did when I was governor. And you take the steps necessary to protect the families in your state. I know you've done that.

One thing you did, as you talked about before, you sent troops, our National Guard, to the southern border. Can you talk more about how Biden's open border policy has affected your state and communities, and the role your state resources placed in helping secure the border?

NOEM: You know, we certainly have seen the effects in South Dakota that many of your states did. And I would say every state has seen the effects of an open border and the policies that have been under the Biden administration. We saw increased crime, but we also saw increased drug activity. We saw cartels and their affiliates moving into our state to proliferate trafficking. And we saw people being victimized and a lack of accountability with the federal government.

So, when Texas was addressing the situation and asked other governors for help, we sent help. I know many of the other governors at the time were sending law enforcement. But I made the decision that at that time that it was more appropriate to send the National Guard, that our National Guard could be activated under Title 32 and sent to assist another state from the invasion that was happening. And because the National Guard is trained for just such a mission.

Because of this invasion, that it is a war zone down there with what they are going to see, the threats that they would see, and that they are trained specifically to interact with other agencies. The National Guard is used to falling in with the other agencies and cooperating with them, and could do that seamlessly. And their families and their communities are normalized to them being deployed.

So. we have, in South Dakota, deployed our National Guard to the southern border eight different times. Two of them were federal deployments that the Biden administration sent them down there. One was to send our Lakota helicopters, which were used for surveillance in the drug interdiction that was going on down there. But six other times I sent them under state activation to partner with Texas and other states in securing our southern border.

They did security operations. They also did building of the wall and partnered with Texas, recognizing the failures of the federal government.

[09:45:02]

The failures of the federal government are significant, and we've seen our families and communities devastated by those effects, by the drug epidemic, by the trafficking that's going on, the increased crime. And we recognize that just because the federal government wasn't doing their job, we could not fail our state. And I needed to protect the people of South Dakota, and the people of South Dakota were overwhelmingly supportive of these deployments.

I'm very proud of our National Guard.

SCOTT: When I was governor of Florida, there was a terrorist attack in Paris by Syrian refugees. So, President Obama was president. And I said, I'd like to know if you're going to send refugees to my state, that you give us some background on them. You know, I assume you vetted them and tell us what's going on. You don't have to tell me, but you ought to tell our state law enforcement and our local law enforcement, all right? That - they said, go jump in a lake. They - meaner than that. But they said, go, you know, you have no rights as a governor, which made no sense.

We had over 70,000 people come here after -- after Afghanistan on planes into this country, completely unvetted, all right. They've never given our governors any information. So, would you change that?

NOEM: Yes. The communication between states and the federal government has been absolutely broken. And that's what I love about this committee is, you do have governors sitting on this committee that have been in that role as a commander in chief and have the responsibility for being the CEOs of their state. It's a different perspective than serving. I served in Congress, too. And both are extremely important. And they're just different in that responsibility that weighs on your shoulder.

I often told folks that that is the thing that - that most times, if something was going to keep me up at night, it was the responsibility that I had being commander in chief, recognizing the decisions that I made. And I'm sure you had this feeling as well, Senator Scott, as governor, that impacted those families, those soldiers, and it impacted their communities when we pulled them out, and the importance of that.

And when they were bringing refugees into the country, I, as well, communicated that to the federal government. They were bringing refugees. And I asked how they were vetted, how we were working with their home countries to find out who they really were, what their intentions were, and why they were coming to the United States, and received no information from this -- from this administration, that that vetting process was being done, that we knew where they were going.

In fact, they kept us in the dark and didn't communicate to us even what states and where those refugees were being placed. So, that is something that we need to change when we have programs that fall under the purview of the Department of Homeland Security, there needs to be communication, especially with the governors so that we can coordinate to ensure that it's the right thing for that state.

SCOTT: Thank you.

PAUL: Senator Hassan.

SEN. MAGGIE HASSAN (D-NH): Thank you, Mr. Chair.

And welcome, Governor Noem. I really appreciate you being here. Welcome to your family as well.

NOEM: Thank you.

HASSAN: And families do share in this kind of public service. And we appreciate them very much.

As we discussed at our meeting last month, as a former governor, I appreciate the important responsibilities that governors have to ensure the safety and security of their communities, including by managing public safety and emerging it - and emergency agencies.

And I will say that in many ways I agree with some of the things that Senator Scott just said about improving communication between the Department of Homeland Security and governors around who is being sent to states. It's a critical issue and something that I was frustrated by when I was governor.

So, I look forward to hearing more today about your priorities, if confirmed, about how - if confirmed, about how your experience as governor would help you run the Department of Homeland Security.

Let me just start by following up with a question that Senator Peters had also touched on.

We have recently, in New Hampshire, seen a dramatic increase in unauthorized border crossings at the northern border. And when I was at the northern border recently, law enforcement told me about the need for more personnel and resources. We still don't have cell phone coverage in a lot of the stretch of our northern border. I've worked with Senator Cramer on bipartisan legislation to strengthen our northern border strategy, because its clear more support is needed.

So, Governor, if you're confirmed, would you deploy additional full- time personnel and upgrade equipment along the northern border?

NOEM: You know, Senator, I enjoyed our meeting that we had, and you identifying the northern border issues that are going on, the lack of security and the lack of technologies that you really need to cover some of the landscapes that are - that are there. Very different than the southern border. Some just as equally challenging, but all need to be addressed. So, I definitely will be working with you to ensure that our northern border is adequately resourced as well.

And we do have to have the resources in order to be successful.

HASSAN: Right.

NOEM: That's something I want to work with Congress, with the Senate and the House on, to ensure that the resources are there to meet the challenges that we have.

[09:50:04]

We have not fully utilized the technologies that are available that are necessary to really secure this country and to compete with those bad actors which wish to infiltrate our country. HASSAN: Right.

NOEM: And having the ability to utilize them will make us much more safe.

So, I'll work with you, most definitely, in ensuring the northern border is protected.

HASSAN: Well, I appreciate that. And I would just note too that at the same time there's real concern in New Hampshire and all along the northern border that we strengthen the border and have the resources we need. We also have a really strong economic relationship with our partner, our friends to the north, and a lot of family relationships. So, I think it's important that we're smart in the deployment of technology. We don't want to impede that flow of economy and people that's lawful, but we do want to make sure that we have the resources we need.

I want to turn to the southern border now. At the southern border, we need significant technological investments to support law enforcement personnel in their efforts to catch fentanyl smugglers, to stop human traffickers and seize the cash and illegal guns that criminals traffic southward to the cartels. And we talked about this a little bit.

There's bipartisan support for these investments. And I've worked with colleagues, including Senators Lankford and Cornyn, on legislation around these issues.

Governor Noem, could you identify specific technological investments that you would make at the southern border? And are you willing to work with me on increasing southbound inspections, if you're confirmed?

NOEM: Yes, certainly, Senator, you've heard President Trump talk about the need to build a wall. And the wall and infrastructure is critically important. But also at our 382 legal ports of entry, we need to have technology so that flow can happen north and south, and it can happen in a legal manner to ensure that our commerce can continue to operate, and that we can continue to make sure that we're also secure.

I think de minimis shipments are a concern, and the need to look at those and how traffickers and fentanyl distributors are using that. I think we also need to use scanners, surveillance operations. There's new technologies out there to cooperate with satellites in some area where the topography does not necessarily facilitate having actual infrastructure. And then also the ability to make sure that we're utilizing that technology that allows us to know what is going south, that might be fueling some of the violence that ends up coming back north and ensuring that we're stopping that before it has the chance to supply those cartels and bad actors that would come in.

HASSAN: Yes. I really appreciate that, because the - the southbound flow, particularly of cash and weapons, fuels the cartels and strengthens them.

NOEM: Absolutely.

HASSAN: And it's something that we really have to focus on.

I also want to follow up on the issue of cybersecurity. Recently, criminals launched a successful cyberattack on PowerSchool, a cloud- based record management system that contains personal information about tens of millions of kindergartners through high school seniors, including many students and teachers in New Hampshire. This cyberattack on PowerSchool comes as schools and local governments across the country have seen a surge in cyberattacks on their systems. And when a small school of maybe a couple of thousand - system maybe a thousand students or so has to pay $2 million in ransom, I want you to think about what that does to one of our small communities, right?

So, Governor Noem, if you're confirmed, how will you empower the cybersecurity and infrastructure security agency to improve the cybersecurity of state and local governments in the United States?

NOEM: Well, thank you, Senator.

If I am confirmed and have the opportunity to serve as secretary of this department, I'll be following the constitution and the rule of law. And then getting these departments back on mission to why they were created and why they are existing. The - what CISA should be doing is helping those small entities, those schools, those local city governments, the state governments, and the small businesses that are critical infrastructure that don't have the resources to stay on top of the critical protections that they need to enact.

HASSAN: Well, let me follow up just quickly on that one point. It's something we discussed when we had our meeting.

I worked with Senator Cornyn on a bipartisan bill that became law that created a cybersecurity grant program for state and local governments. This is in addition to each state getting a cyber coordinator to help on the ground. We discussed this program, and I know you, as governor, had some reservations about the structure of the program. But if confirmed, will you commit to working with Congress to adjust it? I'd love your input about what gave you pause as governor. I think there were only two governors who didn't participate in the program.

NOEM: Correct.

HASSAN: And I hope that as we work on the concerns you have, you'd work with me to adjust and reauthorize the program.

NOEM: Yes. All - all grants within the department will be evaluated when I come in and be looked at to see what we can do to make sure that they're actually fulfilling the mission to which they were established.

[09:55:13]

What I would say about the cybersecurity grants in South Dakota, when I came in as governor, one of my main priorities was to bring the next industry into the state. HASSAN: Right.

NOEM: And I determined that that would be technology and cybersecurity. In fact, we have Dakota State University in our state, which is a cybersecurity national leader in training those cyber warriors that we need to protect us and keep us safe. I've, since then, partnered to grow and double the size of that school. We train a lot of NSA employees in South Dakota.

HASSAN: Yes.

NOEM: And so understanding cybersecurity and my experience in that, I think, is critically important to the department and bringing it to the table to do this.

You talked about why we didn't take that cybersecurity grant in South Dakota, and it's because the requirements of that grant would have caused me to grow my state government, the administration costs of it would have been much more than what it would have been able to facilitate at the local level, and our state was already proactively helping these individuals that needed the resources to secure their systems.

HASSAN: Well, I appreciate that. I'm way over time. There were very few requirements purposely in that grant program other than to make sure the money was being spent the way we authorized. But let's continue to talk about that.

NOEM: We will.

HASSAN: Thank you.

NOEM: Thank you.

PAUL: Senator Hawley.

SEN. JOSH HAWLEY (R-MO): Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

Governor Noem, welcome. Congratulations on your nomination. I'm delighted to see you here.

I do notice the chairman of the Ways and Means Committee is over your shoulder there.

NOEM: He is.

HAWLEY: I have to question your judgment about who your friends are based on that. To the great - the great chairman from the state of Missouri.

NOEM: (INAUDIBLE).

HAWLEY: It's fantastic to have you here.

You know, the Department of Homeland Security is not particularly old, but you already have the what I hope will soon be the distinction of - of succeeding the worst secretary in the history of the Department of Homeland Security. Alejandro Mayorkas has been an absolute disgrace to that department and, frankly, to this country. And I'm delighted to see you willing to step up and serve.

Let me just ask you something I repeatedly asked your predecessor when he sat where you're sitting, whether the southern border was secure. And he repeatedly told me, under oath, it is secure, Senator. And he repeatedly said under oath, our policies are working, Senator, meaning the Biden administration policies that, of course, gave us this devastating open border.

So, let me just ask you, is the southern border secure as we find it today?

NOEM: Senator, no, the southern border is not secure today. But in just three days, we will have a new president in this country, President Donald J. Trump, and he will secure our border.

HAWLEY: That is refreshing candor. I'm glad to hear it.

Let me ask you about a young man from my state. This is Travis Wolfe, who's 12 years old, when he was killed just over a year ago by an illegal migrant who mowed him down. And I choose my words carefully, mowed him down in a motor vehicle, hit him head on, doing 75 in a 40, killed him. Others were severely injured.

Just yesterday, a witness sitting where you are sitting today, told this committee that migrant crime is, and I quote, "not an actual concern," "not an actual concern." In a hearing before this committee advising us to drop the Laken Riley Act and not focus on migrant crime.

You know, in my state, with the death of people like Travis Wolfe and Officer David Lee, who was assaulted and killed in Saint Louis, and officers in Kansas City, who have been assaulted by illegal migrants, and others who have been carjacked and stabbed. Would you agree with me that migrant crime sure as heck is an actual concern, and that you intend to do something about it?

NOEM: Yes, Senator, absolutely. And I am so sorry about Travis and his - my prayers go out to his family. I can't even imagine what that is like. And thank you for telling his story, because there's so many families in this country that have that same story, and they don't understand why the federal government is allowing people to come into this country illegally and then perpetuate crimes against their people, and then give them resources and shelter and food and - and debit cards to go take care of their families when they go to work every single day to make sure that they're providing for their families and are held accountable to when they break our laws.

So -

HAWLEY: Let me ask you this. Will you work with President Trump to reinstate the remain in Mexico program that the president had in place in his first term, which does so much to ensure that those who would seek to abuse our asylum system are not allowed into the country, and those who have legitimate asylum claims, their claims are processed in due order and in due course, but they wait in Mexico until those claims are fully processed. Will you work to reinstate that program?

NOEM: Yes, Senator, the president and I have talked extensively about this and will 100 percent partner with him to reinstate the - the remain in Mexico policy and make sure that it's in place.

HAWLEY: Fantastic. I think Travis might be alive today if that policy had been in place.

Let me ask you about CBP One, the phone app that I've called concierge service for illegal immigrants. I'm sure you're familiar with it. This was the Biden administration's effort to allow asylum seekers to apply ahead of time using their phones, but not actually to provide any evidence that they needed asylum.

[10:00:08]

There is a newspaper report, a press report that said