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Supreme Court Says Tiktok Can be Banned in U.S.; Confirmation Hearing For Kristi Noem as Homeland Security Secretary; Starship Spacecraft Disintegrates Minutes After Launch. Aired 2-2:30p ET

Aired January 17, 2025 - 14:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

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[14:01:18]

BRIANNA KEILAR, CNN HOST: TikTok turmoil the Supreme Court upholding the U.S. ban on the popular app. The White House saying it won't enforce it, leaving the platform's fate to Trump. But can it still be saved?

Plus, in the hot seat, Trump's Homeland Security pick Kristi Noem, facing some tough questions from senators about mass deportations as we learn new details about the President-elect's aggressive plan to overhaul immigration starting day one.

And a spectacle in the skies. A Space X test flight exploding in midair just minutes after launch. New details on what went wrong. We're following these major developing stories and many more, all coming in right here to CNN News Central.

Hello, I'm Brianna Keilar. Boris is off today. Is it time -- is the time up for TikTok? Despite today's Supreme Court ruling upholding the ban on the wildly popular app, the outgoing Biden administration is signaling it does not plan to enforce the ban, which by law takes effect on Sunday unless it's sold to a new owner who is not based in China.

Sunday, of course, is also the last full day of the Biden presidency. But moments ago, President Biden said that the decision on TikTok will be made by the next president. And Donald Trump has said in the past that he wants to save TikTok, which is used by about 170 million people in the U.S.

Trump posted on Truth Social today that he talked to Chinese President Xi Jinping about the app, among other topics. And TikTok is already showing how much they appreciate the President-elect's efforts with its CEO releasing this TikTok video in the last hour.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SHOU CHEW, TIKTOK CEO: I want to thank President Trump for his commitment to work with us to find a solution that keeps TikTok available in the United States. We are grateful and pleased to have the support of a president who truly understands our platform, one who has used TikTok to express his own thoughts and perspectives, connecting with the world and generating more than 60 billion views of his content in the process.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

CNN's Alayna Treene is near the President-elect estate in Florida. And you know, it's hard to read the tea leaves on exactly what is going to happen, Alayna, he did tell our Pam Brown, you're going to see what I'm going to do. So a little bit of a tease there, but what might he do?

ALAYNA TREENE, CNN REPORTER: Well, look, we do know, Brianna, that as you mentioned, Donald Trump does want to try to find some sort of solution to save the app in the United States. Now, we have reported that Donald Trump is considering a potential executive order soon after taking office that would extend and really put a pause on this ban and extend the time that he would have and his incoming administration would have to try to find some sort of resolution, some sort of negotiation that they could reach with TikTok.

Now, of course, all of this comes down to, you know, TikTok's decision not to divest from its Chinese owner, ByteDance. This is why the ban is in place. This is what Congress approved last year and President Biden signed into law. It is unclear whether Donald Trump would try to find some sort of company to, you know, maybe take over TikTok and have it be sold from its Chinese owner. But that is something we know that the app has said it has no plans to do.

But look, one thing that is very interesting, we have to note is that this is a stunning reversal from Donald Trump because I'd remind you that back in 2020, before he left the White House after his first- term, he had said that he wanted to ban TikTok for the same reasons that President Joe Biden is concerned about it, the national security concerns of having it be owned by a Chinese company.

[14:05:05]

Of course, now he is saying that he is warm to TikTok in part because so many young people in this country voted for him because of seeing his campaign's messaging on TikTok. I want you to just take a listen our great producers put together a little mash up of what Donald Trump has said over the years on this issue.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT ELECT: We're looking at TikTok. We may be banning TikTok. We may be doing some other things. It'll either be closed up or they'll sell it. So we'll either that close up TikTok in this country for security reasons. We have to have the total security from China who are just -- no, we're not going to do anything to jeopardize security.

I'm going to save TikTok. Biden wants to get rid of TikTok, you know why? Because he has no idea. I'm now a big star on TikTok. We even have TikTok Jack. I have a warm spot in my heart for TikTok because I won youth by 34 points.

(END VIDEO CLIP) TREENE: So as you can hear there, Brianna, not always on the same page with himself, he is making a reversal from what he used to believe. But one thing is why I want to point out is that this ban that is supposed to take effect on Sunday is one that received bipartisan approval in Congress. And many Republicans are China hawks have a hard line position on China. They want this band to go into effect. So that's something to keep in mind as well, kind of complicating some of this.

But as you mentioned, we do know that Donald Trump spoke with Chinese President Xi Jinping this morning. TikTok came up during that call, Donald Trump said. And we're also expecting TikTok CEO to attend Donald Trump's inauguration on Monday. We know that Donald Trump has been in communication with TikTok CEO Shou Chew and that he even came to Mar-a-Lago to meet with Donald Trump last month on all of the issues surrounding this ban. Brianna.

KEILAR: All right, Alayna, thank you for that report from West Palm Beach, Florida.

Our next guest is a TikTok content creator. Harry Sisson has 1.4 million followers on the app and he's with us now from New York. Harry, I just wonder, are you -- I'm assuming you're watching all of this play out. The court upholding this ban and President Biden indicating that he's not going to or the White House indicating they're not going to enforce it. It's going to be up to Trump here. Are you banking on Trump not enforcing this and buying time for TikTok?

HARRY SISSON, TIKTOK CONTENT CREATOR: I think it's kind of up in the air right now. I think TikTok's future is somewhat uncertain, even though this Supreme Court decision is very certain. As you mentioned, we're hearing from President Biden that he doesn't want to enforce it. Donald Trump has kind of flip flopped on this issue, saying that now he might want to extend it. But am I banking on Donald Trump's word? No, I think that would be silly to bank on Trump following through with a promise that he made.

KEILAR: So, I mean, what do you think is going to happen on Sunday? The industry cite the information is reporting that TikTok is going to go fully dark, that it'll shut down on Sunday. Do you have an indication of what happens if you click on the app?

SISSON: Yeah, I think that that's probably accurate, that it's just going to kind of go dark. I've heard different reports that it'll be either that you just can't click on the app at all or that when you click on the app, a notification will pop up saying that this app has been banned in your country. You won't be able to use it.

But we don't really know the next steps. I would project that it's going to go dark on the 19th and then possibly Donald Trump is able to keep it alive on the 20th. But I think a lot of this is still very much up in the air.

KEILAR: What does this mean for you personally? SISSON: I mean, it means a lot. You know, I've been on TikTok for five years. I started during the COVID pandemic because I wanted to be involved in national politics and there was no real way to do that during the pandemic.

And, you know, being on it five years, connecting with so many amazing people, having the opportunity to interview President Biden because of my content on TikTok, kind of seeing that all go away in an instant is, I think, depressing for a lot of people.

You know, I've been speaking to a lot of friends in this industry, kind of people that post on TikTok and it all feels that, you know, our voice is kind of being taken away just like that. And so it's kind of hard to grapple with, but we're trying to stay optimistic here.

KEILAR: What do you think about the government's argument that this is a national security risk because the parent company is Chinese owned and we've certainly seen many instances of China trying to infiltrate the U.S. government and American telecom companies illegally?

SISSON: Yeah. So I think my position in the position of some of my peers is that we would just like more evidence from the United States government. But if the government provides that evidence and there's concrete proof that this app has been manipulated in a way to, you know, further China hurt the United States, we would be in favor. In favor of, you know, divesting and possible ban. We care about national security, just like other Americans.

[14:10:01]

We just want to see that evidence first.

KEILAR: But if you've seen reporting on Chinese hackers getting into telecom companies to try to monitor communications, or certainly information about communications getting into the Treasury Department, and honestly, who knows, because it feels like we learn more and more as days and weeks go by. Does that sort -- does that -- isn't that the case that's being made?

SISSON: Yeah, I mean, I think that's what you're mentioning here is incredibly concerning. And when someone like President Biden or Secretary Blinken or members of the Biden administration kind of raise the alarm here, I'm inclined to believe them and, you know, trust their word that they've seen something compelling behind the scenes. But I also think that the American people have to be brought into the fold.

We kind of have to see that evidence as well, as long as it's possible to do so without jeopardizing national security. And I think that's just the position I have. I would like to see it for myself. But, you know, if there's some national concern -- if there's national security concerns there, then I have no problem with a divestiture or a ban.

KEILAR: Harry, it is great to speak with you. There's so many people this is going to affect. I mean, tens and tens of millions of people using it. Thanks for speaking with us. SISSON: Thank you for having me on. I appreciate it.

KEILAR: Today, President-elect Trump's pick to lead the Department of Homeland Security, South Dakota Governor Kristi Noem facing questions from Senate at her confirmation hearing. Noem vowed to aggressively implement Trump's border policies. And despite migrant crossings at the U.S. Southern border plummeting last year, she described the situation there as a war zone. Here's her exchange with Republican Senator Josh Hawley.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SEN. JOSH HAWLEY, (R) MISSOURI: Is the southern border secure as we find it today

GOV. KRISTI NOEM, HOMELAND SECURITY SECRETARY NOMINEE: Senator, no. The southern border is not secure today. But in just three days, we will have a new president in this country, President Donald J. Trump. And he will secure our border.

My hope is that if given the opportunity to serve as secretary that the federal government would no longer, and I believe, as President Trump has promised the American people facilitate an illegal alien invasion.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

KEILAR: In the meantime, Senate Republican leaders are hopeful that they will vote to confirm Secretary of State pick Marco Rubio and possibly other top national security cabinet picks on Monday after Trump is sworn in as president. With U.S. now is CNN's Priscilla Alvarez. And, Priscilla, you have some really good new reporting about what Trump is planning to start with from day one on immigration.

PRISCILLA ALVAREZ, CNN WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: Yeah. And all of these executive actions, they fall in three buckets. So the first is interior enforcement. Of course, we've heard the President-elect talk about this on the campaign trail multiple times with his mass deportation pledge.

Well, what this looks like is ice sweeps in some of these major metropolitan areas, areas that have experienced an influx of migrants over recent years, for example, Chicago and Denver. And ones that the incoming border czar, Tom Homan has verbally sparred with publicly, especially calling out those sanctuary cities, those cities that limit cooperation with federal immigration enforcement authorities. So essentially making a show of that and being quite pointed by directing sweeps in these areas.

Now, the other part of this is the border. You mentioned it there. The border is relatively quiet right now. The numbers are very low. But all of the same, the Trump team is planning executive actions to get at clamping down on the U.S. Southern border.

The national emergency declaration is one of those, essentially shoring up resources from the Pentagon to assist in enforcement there and then also restarting negotiations for that remain in Mexico policy that pushes migrants back into Mexico as they wait their court hearings. Of course, Mexico has to buy into that, but it kicks off that process.

And lastly is legal immigration. This one is key for visas. So the travel ban that they did the first time around, well, they're going to bring back an iteration of that. And sources I've spoken to said they're still sorting out who exactly is going to be part of that. But certainly that is expected to make a comeback in addition to some of the other pledges they've made, like ending birthright citizenship, etcetera.

Now, at the helm of all of that is going to be, if confirmed Kristi Noem, who is the South Dakota governor who had her confirmation hearing today. She was asked about the immigration agenda, but she was also asked to go a little further about what if the President-elect wants to send troops or more enforcement to other states. What does it mean for her at her position and especially as someone who is a governor? Here's what she had to say about all that.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SEN. ELISSA SLOTKIN, (D) MICHIGAN: If the president asks you to send in federal law enforcement to a state without coordination of that Governor, would you support that action?

NOEM: You know, Senator, my job if nominated and sworn in as Secretary of Homeland Security, is to uphold the Constitution and to --

SLOTKIN: So you will push back?

NOEM: -- rules of this country. Yes, that will be the oath and the pledge that I will be making.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

ALVAREZ: So you can get a sense there of some of the concerns from Democrats going into the next few days.

[14:15:01]

Another one that came up was federal funding, of course. Department of Homeland Security also houses FEMA. So if there are natural disasters, will the president and the DHS secretary hold back federal funding if, for example, they're not in compliance with one part of the president's agenda?

So those were some of the questions that came up that gave us an idea of where they're going to get position, the Democrats, I mean. And also Republicans when it comes to immigration. She seems to be on track to get confirmed, but certainly important questions to give a bit of a view into her thinking.

KEILAR: Yeah, really interesting. Eye to California, they're in the middle of a wildfire crisis. Will be still during this transition. Priscilla, thank you so much. Really appreciate it. We have CNN Senior National Security Analyst Juliette Kayyem with us now. How do you think Noem's hearing went, Juliet?

JULIETTE KAYYEM, CNN SENIOR NATIONAL SECURITY ANALYST: I mean, it was relatively mild. This is a -- I don't -- I think she'll get confirmed. She's a governor. She knows how to run something unlike some of the other nominees. She seems -- she doesn't seem very interested in the major issues.

It's an odd pick in the sense like, you know, South Dakota is not a border state. It doesn't have the kind of threats that, you know, national security threats, cyber terrorism, climate and climate disasters that other states have. I think she'll get in, but I think her sort of lack of interest in the subject matter at hand and the department she's going to run is actually proof of where Homeland Security is going to be run, which is not out of the Department of Homeland Security but out of the White House.

As our reporting shows that the immigration agenda has nothing to do with enforcement anymore. The numbers are down. The southern border numbers are down. Trump will do two things. He will do these sort of shock and awe actions and then take credit for the fact that the border is by all accounts are reporting the numbers is relatively quiet right now.

And so that's basically what we should anticipate in the first couple of months is these big pronouncements shock. And I go after blue cities and blue states and then the numbers will probably remain relatively low and he gets credit for it. That's I think a sort of safe way to analyze the next couple of weeks and months.

KEILAR: To your point about where is this issue going to be run out of perhaps the White House. This is an interesting exchange between New Jersey Senator Andy Kim and Noem on how she's going to work with border czar Tom Homan, who, by the way, does not need Senate confirmation and will certainly have close access to the President. Here's the moment.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SEN. ANDY KIM, (D) NEW JERSEY: Will he be giving orders directly to CBP, ICE, USCIS?

NOEM: Tom Homan has a direct line to the president. He is an advisor to the president, the border czar. I obviously will be, if nominated and confirmed and put into the position of being the Department of Homeland Security Secretary, and responsible for the authorities that we have and the actions that we take.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

KEILAR: How did you read that, what she was saying there?

KAYYEM: Yeah, I honestly dream on. I mean, I don't mean to be sarcastic here. We know that Homan is in charge and Stephen Miller, the Deputy Chief of Staff, are in charge. I've worked at agencies before. When a White House wants to own an agenda, it owns an agenda.

If she gets confirmed, Secretary Noem will be told how and whether to enforce. We now know she won't push back on it. But if you -- the Trump presidency is about immigration and he's -- and he's made that clear. This is, you know, this is just descriptive at this stage. And that is going to be run by Homan and Miller and that will include some of the things that we're reporting on.

She'll use the department as the White House wants the department to be used and her representations otherwise may have been told to her. But there's no way that Stephen Miller or Homan, everyone who's seen what's going on, knows, will defer to her on this issue simply because she's not a subject matter expert.

I mean, they didn't -- they purposely chose someone who knows nothing about immigration or very little about immigration because they want it run out of the White House. Most of what the department does, besides emergency management and cyber, it's muscle is in border enforcement. From the Coast Guard to ICE to CBP to TSA, most of its component enforcement agencies are related to the border. And the president chose a non-border expert. So we know that's going to come out of the White House.

KEILAR: All right, really interesting. Juliette Kayyem, thank you.

KAYYEM: Thank you.

KEILAR: Here in a matter of days, just two days, some of the Israeli hostages who were taken by Hamas 15 months ago could be reunited with their loved ones, but not all of them.

[14:20:10]

Next, we're going to speak with the brother-in-law of a hostage who is not likely to be included in this first phase of the ceasefire hostage deal.

And rallying for the community, LA's major sports teams and celebrities are joining forces to help those who have been impacted by the devastating wildfires there. We have a -- .we're live at a donation event at Dodger Stadium and we'll have that and much more coming up on CNN News Central.

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[14:25:03]

KEILAR: We are following major developments out of the Middle East. At this hour, the full Israeli cabinet is meeting and is expected to vote any moment now on a hostage and cease fire deal. This is after the Cabinet's Security Council approved the deal earlier today.

And if the cabinet approves the deal, 33 hostages could be released. This will be starting on Sunday in phases and it would be in exchange for hundreds of Palestinian prisoners held by Israel. The agreement also calls for a ceasefire for 42 days in a war that has raged now for more than 15 months.

I'm joined now by Moshe Lavi. His brother-in-law, Omri Miran, was taken hostage by Hamas on October 7th. Moshe, tell me how you're feeling?

MOSHE LAVI, BROTHER-IN-LAW TAKEN HOSTAGE: Hi, good evening. It's a hard question to answer because we're trying to focus on the mission. The mission is not over. The mission to bring home holder hostages. And so I try to detach myself from emotions.

We keep the advocacy work. We're rejoicing for those families who will hopefully see their loved ones return soon. And until we see the first hostage return, we will not believe it's going to happen. But we have to keep working hard to ensure our elected officials in Israel, leaders, worldwide leaders, and of course the terrorist organization Hamas, understand that they need to progress for the second phase to ensure all the hostages return home to their loved ones.

KEILAR: And obviously the expectation here, because of the emphasis of women and children and the elderly in this first tranche of hostages to be released, is that you're really banking on phase two for getting Omri home. So what is your message to your government, to people who are watching as they are going to move 16 days from the first release into that negotiation for phase two?

LAVI: My message is rather simple. And I gave that message earlier this week in Israel, yesterday in London to relevant UK representatives, and today here in Paris with relevant representatives from the French government that they need to push all stakeholders to begin negotiating for the second phase now.

We should not wait for the 16th day. We should do everything we can to ensure that the discussions begin now. The hostages have no time for waiting additional 16th day. Every hostage is a humanitarian case at this point. They've all been tortured, abused, experienced violence, deprivation of food, water and sunlight for so many days. And so we can't expect them to keep waiting for decision makers to decide whether X, Y, Z (ph) is appropriate for a deal.

They need to seal a complete deal, a comprehensive deal. Which is why families of hostages are working relentlessly this weekend all across relevant European capitals and also over the next couple of days in Washington, D.C. both with the outgoing administration and the incoming Trump administration.

KEILAR: Can you tell us a little bit of what it has been like for your family? It has just been so long since Omri has been taken. How is your family doing, how you're holding on to hope and finding that connection in your community?

LAVI: Yeah, we have no privilege to give up on hope. Hope strengthens us. It gives us the fuel to keep going, to keep advocating with policymakers, keep advocating with the wider public. Our family is a strong family, has been supporting my sister Lishay and my two nieces, Roni and Alma, survivors of October 7th, serving as a shield for Lishay, who has been advocating for the release of her husband, Omri, since October 8, when she decided that she needs to focus on that rather than process everything she has endured on October 7th.

And so we try and support her as much as possible as a family. My family is still displaced in a different part of Israel, and they were adopted in a way by a new community that helps my sister and helps my parents and other members of the family to find a place of strength and support that help us when we enter those rooms with politicians, enter those rallies stages and give speeches for our loved ones.

And also when I speak with the media. It's been difficult, but we are strong and we'll keep being strong --

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