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Recovery Effort Unfolds for 67 Victims of Passenger Jet-Chopper Crash; NTSB: Flight Data Recorders Not Yet Recovered; President Trump Signs Executive Orders From Oval Office. Aired 3:30-4p ET

Aired January 30, 2025 - 15:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[15:30:00]

BORIS SANCHEZ, CNN HOST: Back to our breaking news on CNN. Just moments ago, the NTSB gave an update on the investigation into that deadly mid-air collision between an American Airlines regional jet and a military Black Hawk helicopter over the Potomac River. Officials say the flight's voice and data recorders have not yet been recovered and that the agency will allow first responders to do their recovery mission before it begins its full investigation.

We want to dig deeper now with CNN Aviation correspondent Pete Muntean. Also joining us, Dr. Tony Stanton. He's a pilot and flight examiner.

Pete, we on lighter days have joked that you're the mayor of DCA --

PETE MUNTEAN, CNN AVIATION CORRESPONDENT" A moniker I wear proudly.

SANCHEZ: -- because you've spent so much time reporting there. You know it so well. And one of the things that has stood out to me in your reporting today is how you describe it as such a hub of activity. I was not aware of how much was going on in that airspace.

Break that down for us.

MUNTEAN: It is something that is like its own little city. And planes are arriving and departing at every instant at DCA. And in between live shots, I'm often watching the arrivals and departures happen. And they happen like that. There's not much room for error for an air traffic controller at Reagan National Airport. And even NTSB chair Jennifer Homendy, she just said, they'll look at the humans and the machine and everything behind it. So there is really going to be no stone unturned here, they said.

But as to the airport, it's a very close proximity to a lot of other installations and flight routes. It is really layer upon layer here.

So let's just sort of break it down. 5342 -- American Flight 5342 was on what's called the Mount Vernon visual approach initially to Runway 1 here. That is the main runway that bisects National Airport, runs north-south.

There's a maneuver called Circle Land 33 that uses this intersecting runway. It's an auxiliary runway used for smaller regional jets to try and get other flights moving and out. And we can see in some of the video that there was one flight that took off in the moments before this crash.

So clearly the intention of the controller there was to try and get more flights out. And I've spoken to air traffic control sources about that. They said that was likely behind the call to have this flight swing out to the east over southeast D.C., come over Joint Base Anacostia-Bolling, and line up with Runway 33.

The problem here is that there are crisscrossing helicopter routes over Reagan National Airport and beside it. And this Black Hawk helicopter was flying on a route called Route 4. That comes down the eastern shore of the Potomac River, intersects with something called Route 1 here that comes down the Anacostia River.

Very, very common to see military and police, law enforcement, government helicopters flying these routes. They do so at low altitude, and the restriction altitude-wise there is at about 200 feet. Usually air traffic controllers are not only talking to flights that they're departing and arriving, but they're also talking to helicopters that are transitioning the area.

They may not be landing at Reagan National Airport. They may be going someplace else like Joint Base Andrews or Davidson Army Airfield where this Black Hawk helicopter was based. So it's really a patchwork of routes and corridors and flights coming in and out all the time, and there is not much room for error.

And remember, just in the FAA reauthorization bill that passed last spring, there was a carve-out that there could be more flights coming into National Airport. And so that, of course, will now be part of the conversation.

Is the airport fully at capacity? Is it bursting at the seams? And some would say yes.

SANCHEZ: Some lawmakers last year expressed concern about the number of flights going into DCA.

MUNTEAN: Exactly right.

SANCHEZ: Tony, I want to ask, as a pilot, how do you navigate all of that activity when you're coming into DCA, especially on a night like last night?

TONY STANTON, PILOT AND FLIGHT EXAMINER: Yes, I guess as a pilot operating something like a CRG, you're literally flying the instrument approach as it's instructed on the plate. You're following the air traffic control directions. And then, as Pete mentioned, this aircraft was asked to make a visual approach to Runway 33.

So, really, for Flight 5342, I would say it's reasonably simple to follow the instructions and fly the approach path.

[15:35:00] The more complex aspect to this is really what the Blackhawk aircraft had to do. When you look at the instructions for that Route 1 and Route 4 for the pilot to follow, there's actually eight lines of height restrictions that a pilot needs to follow to fly those corridors, Route 1 and Route 4. That's rather complex.

SANCHEZ: Yes. And can you tell us about this traffic alert and collision avoidance system? Because that has come up multiple times throughout the day in reaction to what happened last night. Are there any gaps that you're aware of in that system?

STANTON: Yes, so, the CRG, Flight 5342, would have had TCAS. I'm not sure about the Blackhawk aircraft, but one thing that hasn't been talked a lot about is the limitations of the TCAS.

And what happens with the traffic collision and avoidance system, it identifies the height of the aircraft above the ground. And as you're coming into land, it inhibits various warnings that that system would ordinarily give the pilot, as you would expect, coming into land. So, at that particular altitude that it seems that these aircraft were at, around that 400 feet, much of the TCAS system is actually inhibited automatically within the system.

So, by design, that system probably would not have identified to the pilots of 5342 that there was another aircraft in close proximity at that altitude.

SANCHEZ: Dr. Tony Stanton, fascinating to get your perspective. Our thanks to Pete Muntean as well.

Still much more to come on this tragic midair collision. Stay with CNN. We'll be right back.

[15:40:00]

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BRIANNA KEILAR, CNN HOST: We're here at Reagan National Airport and you are watching recovery efforts from that midair collision between an Army Black Hawk helicopter and an American Airlines passenger jet last night. Sixty-seven people perishing.

I am here now with John Donnelly, D.C. Fire Chief, Chief of EMS as well. And, sir, thank you so much for being with us. Such a tragedy as this has moved to a recovery effort. Can you tell us a little bit about what's happening right now?

JOHN DONNELLY, CHIEF, DC FIRE AND EMS: So, right now, our units are out in the river. It's more than just D.C. Fire and EMS units. We have responders from across the region, our Metropolitan Police Department boats, the Metropolitan Washington Airport Authority fire boats, the Coast Guard, among a lot of others, are out here working, one, to secure the wreckage and continue to take people off the wreckage, get them over to the coroner's office so we can identify them and reunite their remains with their family. KEILAR: And how is that going? Tell us a little bit about the conditions because there is murky water and there are also the currents. The hope, of course, is to recover the remains of everyone.

DONNELLY: So we will recover the remains of everyone. We're confident in that. The conditions on the river are as hard as you can get for diving.

You've got to remember our divers now have been diving about 20 hours on multiple sites. They dove all through the night. They had wind conditions last night that was pushing things around. There was ice conditions last night. There was jet fuel on the water, so they were diving in hazmat. And they were diving in wreckage that can puncture their dry suits.

So the police and fire divers from across the region did nothing but heroic work last night getting into that wreckage and looking for people.

KEILAR: So you had instances where divers were having their dry suits punctured and they had to switch out?

DONNELLY: They were at risk of that. Yes, we've been rotating equipment. We've been rotating people. The jet fuel contamination is real.

KEILAR: And at this point in time, we're really in the early stages of learning answers, and so too are the families in the early stages of learning answers.

DONNELLY: Yes, you know, this is a tragedy. We are in a business where we deal with the loss of life of people being hurt, and one person is bad and it's hard, and 67 is a lot.

So the families are truly suffering. They're being supported by a process that the American Airlines has. The NTSB is a part of that. And throughout the region, the responders are helping in the ways that they can by trying to find their loved ones.

KEILAR: Yes, it's hard to fathom. Sixty-seven people multiply that by their families and their circle of loved ones. And you have so many people who are out there on the water.

I know they're compartmentalizing what they're doing, but this is really difficult work, and they're going to keep doing it until they're done.

DONNELLY: They are, and, you know, we're building support systems for them to make sure, one, that they're getting food, they're getting warm. We have peer support teams. The International Association of Firefighters president was here today to check in on the union folks, and in that, their regional peer support team is in place.

[15:45:00]

We have a system to support our people, and I think that's really important because they're working hard. We had 300 responders from 21 different agencies yesterday. That doesn't happen in many places.

KEILAR: And when you talk about securing this aircraft with the fuselage, and you also have the helicopter, and you're diving in different locations, can you tell us a little bit more about that?

DONNELLY: It's just making sure that, one, nothing happens to it, two, that we're doing the searches and that they need to be done, making sure they don't move.

KEILAR: What's the debris field? How spread out is it?

DONNELLY: So I don't have a clear picture of that. That's part of what's being mapped today. That's part of what the NTSB does, and it's very important to them.

So it's important that we not only get the victims out, but we preserve the evidence so we can find out what caused this crash and hopefully work to prevent it in the future.

KEILAR: And we had heard that the water was waist-deep in some areas, but then we'd also heard that it was 8 feet deep in some areas. And, of course, anyone familiar who's stepped foot in the Potomac River knows it's very silty, right? There's a lot of silt, kind of easy to get stuck in.

Tell us about what that's like.

DONNELLY: So we're in a wide part of the river, which means that the channel's off to one side and it isn't very deep. The tide comes in and out. The tide came in at 3:30 this morning -- or was out at 3:30 this morning. So where we started out at about 8 feet, we had some areas that you could walk around in. And walking around, as you described, it's a bit of an exercise because you sink into the silt. So that's actually part of the challenge, is that you're half swimming, half walking while you're working.

This is very strenuous for our divers, our rescue swimmers that are in the water. And it's just a slow, methodical process. It's what we're trained to do. It's what we practice to do. But it's just going to take some time.

KEILAR: You deal with so many tragedies, Chief. But there's something about this, the scope of it. This is everyone's airport here in the city. Everyone goes through here. I think there's a feeling this could be anyone, any one of the visitors or family that we welcome to this city or that is coming home. This really hits people very hard.

DONNELLY: Yes, we've talked to a lot of people over the last 24 hours or so that are affected by this tragedy. Whether they knew someone on there or they had a family member on there.

And it is, like you said, for what it is, it seems to have affected a lot of people. And I think that that speaks to the closeness of our community to a point. But tragedy does that, and it draws people together. And hopefully we can all support each other and come out of this a little stronger. KEILAR: Yes. We do hope for that. Chief, thank you so much. And good

luck. Good luck to everyone on your team who is out there doing so much hard work. We really appreciate it.

DONNELLY: Our team, our region, is amazing. And I can't say enough great things about all the responders, police, fire, federal, state levels that are here today supporting this operation. We'll be here. We're going to get these people back to their families.

KEILAR: No doubt. Chief Donnelly, thank you for being with us. We appreciate it.

And ahead on CNN NEW CENTRAL, we're going to have much more on this deadly crash near Reagan National Airport, including what we have learned about the passengers and the crew members who were killed in this midair collision.

[15:50:00]

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

KEILAR: The CEO of American Airlines says that he is meeting with the families of people killed in the collision between one of its planes and a military helicopter last night. The victims here, of course, include members of the figure skating world, including a world champion Russian skating couple who had moved to the United States, who is coaching the next generation of figure skaters. So many people here in the U.S. And their son had just won fourth place at the U.S. Men's Figure Skating Championships last weekend. He was not on board the flight.

But among those killed, American Airlines flight attendant Ian Epstein. He is leaving behind four children. His sister telling CNN he was a wonderful man who loved life, loved his family, treated his passengers like friends.

And joining me now is the president for the Association of Flight Attendants, Sara Nelson. Sara, two of your members of your union killed in the crash. What can you tell us?

SARA NELSON, PRESIDENT, ASSOCIATION OF FLIGHT ATTENDANTS: Today is heartbreaking. And there are flight attendants all around the world who are identifying with those two flight attendants, whether they knew them or not. And grieving in this moment and trying to send messages of solidarity and support.

But also asking the public to please give the NTSB the time to conduct the investigation so that we can determine the cause of this crash and make any changes necessary to keep aviation safe.

KEILAR: And I think that's really the concern, Sara, is that people want to feel safe.

[15:55:00]

As your union members are mourning two of their own, we're looking at victims here, and I think so many people are wondering, you know, can I fly safely?

We're getting assurances from officials, but what do you say as passengers have those questions, as flight attendants may have those questions?

NELSON: Well, look, is it safe is a question that every single aviation worker asks every single day. From the machinist who is building the aircraft and the engineers who are designing it to the pilots who are doing the walk-around, the flight attendants who are doing the safety checks, the air traffic controllers who are giving us the plans to conduct our route that day. We are constantly asking, is it safe? And if it is not, we don't go.

And we are able to do this because we're able to identify the potential risks in aviation, create redundancies there to keep it safe, and to make sure that we can mitigate any of those risks.

But I should also just note that one of the things that we assess is not just the scene or the equipment, but it's also our own ability to do our job. So there has to be a self-assessment of whether or not we are safe, we are in a condition to do our job. And that is an assessment that flight attendants are doing today, and we are out in all of the bases working with flight attendants and anyone who does not feel like they can do their job today or making sure that they don't have to do it. But what we can assure the public is that this happens every single day, all day long. Aviation workers throughout the --

KEILAR: Sara, I'm so sorry. I'm so sorry to interrupt you, Sara. But if you could just pause for a moment and stand by for us. Let's watch. President Trump has signed some executive orders. Let's listen.

DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: ... those positions, and, you know, you're talking about extremely complex things. And if they don't have a great brain, a great power of the brain, they're not going to be very good at what they do, and bad things will happen.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Mr. President, there's long been concerns about the amount of congestion out of DCA Airport. Do you think that there's too many flights coming out of that airport?

TRUMP: No, I think we need very smart people running the flights and doing it. You know, the ones that aren't good, they'll either do one of two things. They'll have too many coming in, and they can't handle it. Or they'll have the people waiting up in the air, which everyone's been caught in that situation, and circling the airports for an hour. And that's no good either.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Mr. President, are you aware of the military helicopter training flights that are flying around National Airport all the time? Which of you should they be going to?

TRUMP: Well, it's fine if they're in the right locations, and if they're not at the same levels. I mean, if a plane coming in is at 300 feet or 400 feet, and a helicopter's training at 300 or 400 feet, why wouldn't they be up 500 feet higher? So I certainly want -- And that, to a certain extent, is the air traffic controller.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Mr. President...

TRUMP: Wait, please, wait. Just a second.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Do you feel what happened last night was preventable?

TRUMP: I do, yes. Oh, absolutely. Obviously, that was something that should not have happened. And we're not going to let it happen again.

Yes, please.

Mr. President, on a slightly different subject, under Canada and Mexico tariffs, will oil be included or excluded from those tariffs?

TRUMP: So we'll be announcing the tariffs on Canada and Mexico for a number of reasons. Number one is the people that are poured into our country so horribly and so much. Number two are the drugs, fentanyl and everything else, that have come into the country.

And number three are the massive subsidies that we're giving to Canada and to Mexico in the form of deficits. And I'll be putting the tariff of 25 percent on Canada and separately 25 percent on Mexico. And we will really have to do that because we have very big deficits with those countries. Those tariffs may or may not rise with time.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Will oil be a part of that?

TRUMP: Oil is going to have nothing to do with it, as far as I'm concerned. Oil has nothing to do with it.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Mr. President, on your legislation today, regarding Guantanamo Bay, you want 30,000 new beds there. Is there a possibility that will increase, or is 30,000 the maximum?

TRUMP: It could increase, yes.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: What would be the maximum?

TRUMP: It depends, but countries that won't take back their criminals that they sent into us, you know, they sent them to us. They put them into the caravans, and they came in as sure as you're standing that they were sent by those countries. Then they're going to be met very harshly with sanctions, et cetera.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: How much are you hoping to have Guantanamo Bay, this new facility, up and running?

TRUMP: It'll be up pretty quickly.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: How much do you think it's going to cost?

TRUMP: Not very much. A lot of the structure is already there, as you know. UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Mr. President, you said that confidence may have played a role. Are you aware of any performance issues or disciplinary actions that were taken against anyone who was working the tower last night or flying the plane?

TRUMP: No, no and I hope that's not the case in this case, but certainly over the years it's been the case and it's the case ...

END