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Zelenskyy: Ukraine Won't Participate in Talks in Saudi Arabia; Union: Trump Administration Firing Hundreds of Probationary FAA Workers; Virginia Requests Expected Federal Help Amid Heavy Flooding. Aired 7:30-8a ET

Aired February 17, 2025 - 07:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

WILLIAM TAYLOR, FORMER U.S. AMBASSADOR TO UKRAINE: And for there to be conversations eventually between Putin and Zelenskyy. So Zelenskyy's been very clear that they're not going to give up. Ukraine has to keep fighting until there is agreement that Russia won't fight again, that Russia won't invade again.

So they legitimately want to be part of these negotiations. Now, there can be other discussions between the United States and Russia on different things, but when they're talking about Ukraine, Ukraine has to be represented.

JOHN BERMAN, CNN ANCHOR: Ukraine also, Zelenskyy also rejected this proposal from the United States, the Treasury Secretary, to give the United States a 50% interest in Ukrainian minerals. Why do you think that proposal did not appeal?

TAYLOR: It didn't appeal, apparently, John, because it didn't look forward. It was set to hand over or give special rights to American firms in return for previous support, previous military support to Ukraine. Of course, what Ukraine wants, what President Zelenskyy wants, is a commitment going forward. That is, from now on, the United States will continue to provide weapons and ammunition so that Ukraine can stop the Russians from invading their country.

BERMAN: So to that end, based on your answers to these two previous questions, where do you see currently current Ukrainian interests in the interest of the current U.S. administration diverging? Are they different?

TAYLOR: I don't think they're different, John. I think they both want the Russians to stop the war. They both want the killing to stop. They both want Ukraine to emerge as a sovereign, independent, prosperous country. And to that end, they're looking at deals having to do with strategic minerals. To that end, they're looking at having the Europeans provide a security force, not blue helmets, not peacekeeping, but a security force from the Europeans with actual troops on the ground to be sure, again, that the Russians don't invade again. So I think those are common views, common interests that the United States and Ukraine share.

BERMAN: The Europeans are holding an emergency meeting today in reaction, in response to the fact that these Saudi meetings are taking place without them. What do you think the Europeans can do, can discuss without the United States?

TAYLOR: I think they can discuss exactly that question, exactly the question of what they can provide to Ukraine to ensure that a ceasefire works, that in a deal, an agreement between Ukraine and Russia and the United States and Europe has a credible force to stop another Russian invasion. And that, I'm sure, is part of what the Europeans are going to be talking about today. How can they provide that force?

The British Prime Minister said yesterday that they're prepared to provide troops on the ground. And the Swedes are interested, the French are interested. So this is probably what they're going to be talking about today, how they can ensure that a ceasefire works.

BERMAN: Do you envision Russia ever accepting an agreement that it would involve European troops from NATO countries, not NATO troops exactly because they wouldn't be there under NATO auspices, but troops from NATO countries in Ukraine?

TAYLOR: I don't think the Russians get a choice in that. The Russians can't say to European nations or the United States or Ukraine, you can't have troops on your own soil. The Russians don't have that ability. The Ukrainians will reject any attempt by the Russians to do that. So yes, I think the Russians won't have an opportunity to say no. I think that the Ukrainians and the Americans and Europeans will agree on some kind of forces on Ukrainian soil to be sure that the Russians don't invade again.

BERMAN: It is a crucial few days we are seeing here in Saudi Arabia and in Paris. Ambassador William Taylor, thank you very much for helping us understand what we might be about to see.

Sara?

SARA SIDNER, CNN ANCHOR: All right. The Trump administration is now targeting the critical Federal Aviation Administration, or FAA as it's known, in its efforts to shrink the government, firing hundreds of probationary workers according to the employee union. The sweeping layoffs come barely three weeks after the deadly midair collision in Washington, D.C., which led to intensified scrutiny of infrastructure issues in the FAA and highlighted a shortage of air traffic controllers.

CNN's Pete Muntean is with me now. Pete, give me some sense of the firings. Do we know who and sort of more about what their roles were going to be and how this might affect aviation?

PETE MUNTEAN, CNN AVIATION CORRESPONDENT: Well, Sara, this is really uncharted territory for an air travel system that's stressed to the max right now. Remember, the FAA's air traffic control equipment is aging, and the system that delivers mandatory pilot safety alerts failed just days after that crash that killed 67 people over the Potomac River. Hasn't even been three weeks since that crash. And Elon Musk's DOGE has had its eye on the FAA ever since.

[07:35:16] Now the concern is when these federal workers return from the long weekend tomorrow, they could be barred from FAA facilities. Now, these are the workers impacted, or members of the union called PASS. That's the Professional Aviation Safety Specialist, part of the AFL-CIO. And Union President Dave Spero tells me between 200 and 300 FAA workers started receiving firing notices from the Trump administration starting late on Friday. These are the workers who help maintain the critical infrastructure that keep the air traffic control system operating.

He says not only were these workers fired without cause, but this was a non-surgical move by the Trump administration that he says is dangerous to public safety and especially unconscionable in the aftermath of the crashes that have been grabbing headlines over the last month. It's important to note here that these are probationary employees, meaning they've been on the job for less than a year. So the next generation of FAA employees at an agency that's had a really hard time keeping up with retirements and attrition.

So far, the FAA has not returned my request for comment. It's important to note here also this does not include air traffic controllers, but no doubt that this could impact them as there's a major shortage of controllers and we've seen that any hiccup in the air traffic control system can impact their jobs too, Sara.

SIDNER: You have to wonder if they're wanting to join when they see what has happened here. There is going to be a visit today. I think Musk expected to visit the FAA command center today. What do you know about that?

MUNTEAN: These are representatives from Musk's SpaceX, which has actually caused some consternation because that's a bit of a conflict of interest considering the fact that SpaceX is overseen by the FAA and FAA grants the space operator launch licenses. This is the tweet from Transportation Secretary Sean Duffy, who says that America deserves safe state-of-the-art travel and President Trump ordered that I deliver a new world-class air traffic control system that will be the envy of the world. He also says that representative from Musk, SpaceX and the Transportation Secretary himself will visit the FAA command center in Warrington, Virginia today.

He's also making essentially a be on the lookout call, an all call for feedback from any high-tech American developer who wants to revamp the air traffic control system. Here is the rub though. One air traffic controller put it to me like this.

Air traffic control and the FAA system is like turning around an aircraft carrier with a singular boat oar. Things don't happen fast at the FAA for a reason because the rules in aviation are written in blood and safety is paramount. Doing major sweeping changes in a quick way may not be a good idea and has a lot of people at the FAA concerned from top to bottom.

SIDNER: Yeah, there are a lot of concerns of conflict of interest and we'll see what happens going forward. Thank you so much, Pete Muntean. I appreciate it. Kate?

KATE BOLDUAN, CNN ANCHOR: Joining us now, Democratic Strategist, CNN Political Commentator Paul Begala and Maura Gillespie, Founder and Principal of Bluestack Strategies, former Press Advisor to then House Speaker John Boehner. Good to see you guys.

Maura, let's talk about the FAA and what we're -- what we're just hearing from Pete Muntean. And you heard from the head of that union representing, these are people who install and maintain air traffic control communications, the radio, the computer systems, which clearly are critical for keeping us safe in the skies. The DOGE effort clearly is not slowing down, but this becomes a political problem when? That's the question I think I've got this morning.

MAURA GILLESPIE, FOUNDER & PRINCIPAL, BLUESTACK STRATEGIES: So I think, you know, you've already seen, unfortunately, terrible accidents with, you know, airplanes recently. I do think that public opinion is one of the biggest factors that Donald Trump, the president of the United States, cares about. And so if public opinion starts to show him that they are not happy with these decisions, that's when it'll be a problem for him.

If his approval ratings go down based on actions that his subordinate, Elon Musk, is taking, I do think that largely Americans find that the federal workforce does feel bloated to them. As somebody who works in the federal government, I know it's not the most glamorous job. So this idea that we are somehow rolling in money and just enjoying the fruits of American taxpayers', you know, labor is not the case. I do think it's really important for people to remember that. As these cuts are being made, people choose to go work for the government. They choose to go work in these positions.

It's not because it's glamorous. It's because it's work that they care about. And so to just make these blanket policies and making these rash decisions could really be not only problematic for our workforce and for the safety and security of our airways, but for just our governments and our people who are working there.

BOLDUAN: Well, and the fact that, as it was described by this union leader, these non-surgical firings, when -- when it comes to the safety of the flying skies, has never been more important as we know, Paul. I want to play just as a reminder what the Secretary of Transportation, Sean Duffy, said right after the DCA crash.

[07:40:18]

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SEAN DUFFY, TRANSPORTATION SECRETARY: We're going to surge air traffic controllers. We're going to bring in the best and the brightest. That was the direction from President Trump. I can't flip a switch and make that happen overnight. But it's this process and this plan we're developing right now that's going to, a year, two, three years from now, show real results of putting certified air traffic controllers, bright, smart, brilliant people in towers controlling airspace. (END VIDEO CLIP)

BOLDUAN: These newest firings that we're talking about, they do not include air traffic controllers. We know, though, the air traffic controllers are on short supply. But he's talking about the best and brightest in the next generation. That's exactly what they're -- that's getting fired as they're culling the workforce. Same question to you, then. This all becomes a political problem with DOGE and the thinning out of the federal workforce, when?

PAUL BEGALA, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: Well, when, gosh, when you hear Pete Muntean say the rules of aviation safety are written in blood. Oh, my God, that's chilling. And it's true. Nobody wants more accidents in Mars, right? That was a tragedy at DCA a few weeks ago. But people are going to see, at the low end, things like delays, things like missed flights.

But -- but it's just -- I have to say, nobody voted for this. Nobody stood in line and said, gee, I want Donald Trump to fire the people who keep the sky safe. You know, by the way, he just barely, barely won. He didn't get a majority of the votes. So most Americans voted against Mr. Trump. He won by 1.5%. And he won to cut the cost of groceries, gas, and rent. OK, I don't think laying off -- not laying off, firing a bunch of people who keep the sky safe is going to help anybody buy eggs. And that's his real problem, is that he's the master of distraction.

And by the way, my Democrats fall for it every time. You know, they should be the largemouth bass, not the donkey. And they chase every shiny object and bite on it. And then, whoa, there's a hook in there. Keep the main thing, the main thing, Democrats. This guy got elected to cut the cost of groceries, gas, and rent. Why the heck isn't he doing it?

BOLDUAN: But actually, Paul, then let me ask you, this kind of feeds into exactly what we're now. And you can tell me if you think this is real or just a real distraction from. But President Trump on Saturday threw something out there. And you get to decide, is this a head fake or not? That one sentence insight into kind of what appears to be his guiding principle or philosophy in the moves that he's made in the first weeks of his presidency, when he wrote, he who saves his country does not violate any law.

And he's now pinned this to the top of his social media profile. It's not something that is, you know, it's not a missive that clearly he wants to go away or is going to get deleted anytime soon. What do you think of -- of that then, Paul?

BEGALA: Well, it could have been written by the Supreme Court in that abominable ruling, which kind of repealed the Magna Carta from 1215, saying, well, he is above the law. I don't blame Mr. Trump for thinking he's above the law, because in some ways, the Supreme Court did put him above the law. And then he's got this coterie around him.

Not a coterie, this party of, I mean, Republican elites, not the walking around folks. A lot of really good people voted for Donald Trump, and they didn't vote for this. But it is -- it is, you got to go to North Korea, really, to see this kind of devotion. Or I guess closer to home, I hope somebody, Kate, loves you as much as these Republicans in Congress worship Donald Trump. I mean, it's not just like a healthy, like a marriage, oh, I love my wife. It is -- you know, it's like a 15-year-old boy, like face flushed, heart beating, palms sweaty, obsessively clicking on Rihanna videos.

You know, it's creepy. And that's kind of the cult that he has built among the Republicans in Washington. And the Republicans out in America, I don't think they share that at all.

BOLDUAN: Maura, what do you -- what do you think? I mean, Republicans in Congress, they're the ones that will -- they have already been dealing with kind of the fruits of this labor, if you will, of this phrase. But at some point, rubber does must meet the road when they need to act and do and claim the authority that they were given, which is the power of the purse and creating law.

GILLESPIE: I do think that when it comes to the budget resolution, you're seeing that kind of play out where, of course, members of Congress are happy to cut the budget, as long as it doesn't hurt their own constituents. They're happy to make cuts in places, as long as it doesn't hurt programs that their constituents rely on. Because at the end of the day, that's who they serve. And that's where you're going to see pushback.

And there is already being conversations about Medicaid and the conversations about those cuts and how they're going to impact Donald Trump supporters, people who have pledged their loyalty, as Paul so eloquently discussed. But that's going to upset Donald Trump, because he doesn't want to upset those voters. And again, as I mentioned before, public opinion is what matters most to him.

[07:45:03]

So Republicans will push back on issues that matter to their constituents. And I think largely in the Senate, you'll see that retaining of the power and the separation of powers. The House does feel as though in large ways, they're waiting on the president to give them the go ahead to do certain things. But by and large, it's the importance of power and the separation of powers. We all need to remember that.

BOLDUAN: Yeah, and it's a good point, though. Well, while the administration may question polls or try to dismiss polls when they're not in their favor, you do know that that is likely to get when you talk about a guiding principle, the guiding principle, what Donald Trump will be tracking in terms of if he changes course on any of this stuff.

It's good to see you both, though. I'm still questioning if you can give eloquence to the eloquent moniker, though, Paul, I'm kidding.

GILLESPIE: I'm just being kind.

BOLDUAN: I love you so much. BEGALA: Maura is so kind, Kate. She's very kind. It's what I love.

BOLDUAN: Oh, got it. I need to learn that, too. Love you guys. Thank you so much.

John?

BERMAN: And for the record, I've never seen a Rihanna video.

BOLDUAN: For sure.

BERMAN: All right, new this morning, we are learning that a woman from Wyoming has been hospitalized with bird flu. It's the state's first confirmed human case of the virus. She is believed to have been exposed through contact with infected poultry at her home. Let's get right to CNN's Meg Tirrell. Meg, what do we know about this case?

MEG TIRRELL, CNN MEDICAL CORRESPONDENT: TIRRELL: Hey, John. Well, we know that this is an older woman in Wyoming, as you said, expected to have been exposed to the virus through an infected flock of poultry at her home. She has been hospitalized and we know that she has underlying health conditions, which could make her more vulnerable to this virus.

Now, this is not an unfamiliar story, although thankfully it's a relatively uncommon one. This is one of just a handful of hospitalizations that we know about because of H5N1 bird flu in the United States. Of course, we know that the one person who died from bird flu in the U.S. was a patient in Louisiana who also was exposed through a backyard flock.

Now, the Wyoming health authorities say that they are looking closely at this. They don't see any evidence of person-to-person transmission, which is important. They're also looking at anybody else who had exposure to this patient or to this flock.

Now, we have been hearing about a handful of cases that have been popping up over just the last week alone, three in the last week. There was another in Ohio, another in Nevada. The Ohio case was in a dairy worker and they had severe symptoms as well and went to the hospital, although we know that they are now recovering.

And so there is concern that we're going to keep seeing these cases. Overall, there have been about 70 cases in people in the United States. Most of those people were exposed either to dairy cows or to poultry flocks. Often, they were farm workers, but in a few cases, John, they have been these backyard poultry flocks as well.

BERMAN: Seems to be a lingering issue. Meg Tirrell, thank you so much for bringing us up to speed.

Sara?

SIDNER: All right. Hundreds of high-water rescues as life-threatening floodwaters sweep across several states, leaving semis and homes underwater. And breaking this morning, doctors giving an update on Pope Francis,

now they're calling it a complex critical condition as he -- clinical, excuse me, complex clinical condition, not critical, as he remains in the hospital this morning.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[07:52:20]

SIDNER: This morning, parts of Virginia remain under a flood warning and the state's governor has requested expedited federal help in the wake of the deadly winter storm that has caused catastrophic flooding. Rescue crews carried out over 150 swift water rescues in Virginia Sunday. Over seven inches of rain fell in some areas, causing rivers to overflow and damaging critical infrastructure. Hundreds of roads and bridges are currently impassable and homes and businesses are flood damaged. At one point, over 200,000 customers lost power with the 911 center even experiencing outages itself.

Joining me now, the Deputy State Coordinator for Field Operations at Virginia's Department of Emergency Management, Andy John.

Thank you so much for joining us this morning. I know it is a busy time as you are in an emergency situation. Can you give us some sense of where things stand this morning?

ANDY JOHN, DEPUTY STATE COORDINATOR FOR FIELD OPERATIONS, VIRGINIA DEPARTMENT OF EMERGENCY MANAGEMENT: Yeah, good morning, Sara, and thank you for having us on. You know, we are seeing the transition to recovery this morning in southwest Virginia, which is a good sign. It means we're not actively responding to save lives and rescue people from their homes. But unfortunately, this is where it gets really hard for the citizens and residents of Virginia.

As it is really cold this morning, they're going to be out trying to clean their homes, muck out the mud and the water and clear the debris from the roadways and things like that. So we've got a lot of resources on the ground, whether it's a state resource or local resource, helping to get the roads open, looking at the infrastructure, the water systems, the wastewater systems, trying to get those back online. And of course, the cleanup occurs -- is still occurring. And unfortunately, as I said, it is really cold this morning. And unfortunately, we've got another winter storm coming in on Wednesday.

So, you know, I feel for the folks out here in southwest Virginia. This is the fifth catastrophic flood they have faced in the last five years. And so unfortunately, they know too well what this process looks like.

SIDNER: You had mentioned the water systems. Are there still people without running water, running potable water?

JOHN: Yes, ma'am. We're aware of a few water systems across southwest Virginia that were impacted by the storm. We have a few boil water advisories that have been issued by our Office of Drinking Water. And our logistics department or section out of the Emergency Management Operations Center has been pushing a lot of water and meals and other resources out southwest Virginia to these communities so that they have those commodities that they need until those systems can come back online.

SIDNER: The governor described the storms, I mean, in really stark terms, calling it one of the most severe weather events that that Virginia has dealt with in at least a decade. Do you have the resources that you need to try and help people as we look at some of these -- these pictures, this picture from Kentucky also dealing with major flooding? And in Virginia, you mentioned how cold it is about to get as well.

[07:55:19]

JOHN: Yeah, you know, we feel we were very confident in the ability to respond to this storm to be able to get to where we needed to go to save lives and protect the individuals in southwest Virginia. But as we make our way to recovery, you know, it's -- it's a comment on us as a -- as a Commonwealth and Emergency Management Department to seek every single resource that can be made available to support these citizens that have been impacted. And so that is why you saw the expedited requests go to FEMA yesterday from the governor.

And, you know, we're going to seek every single resource that we can get to support these folks and help them get back on their feet. And, you know, it wasn't just this -- this storm, this flood that they've been impacted by. You know, Virginia has had a very busy year so far.

SIDNER: Yeah.

JOHN: We had a major winter storm that already came through earlier in the year. We had a pretty significant water outage that affected the city of Richmond. Of course, you all know all too well the Potomac air crash that occurred just a few weeks ago. Our state agency and other state agencies did respond to that. And here we are faced with another flood recovery and another winter storm coming in on Wednesday.

So it wasn't just this storm that we are seeking support from. It's -- it's all of 2025 that we've been impacted by and just looking for a little more support there.

SIDNER: Yeah, it's been disaster after disaster after disaster. And it is important to know how cold it is going to get on Wednesday as people try and deal with all of this mud and slush and water that has come into their homes. It is a very difficult situation.

Andy John, thank you so much for coming on this morning. Really appreciate your time.

Kate?

BOLDUAN: An update now on what police in Upstate New York are calling one of the most horrific and depraved crimes that they have ever encountered. Five people have been arrested, charged with murder for the death of a missing transgender man from Minnesota. The five people charged range in age from 19 to 38 years old.

New York state police launched a missing persons investigation for 24- year-old Sam Nordquist on February 9th. Then human remains believed to be those of Nordquist were discovered on February 13th. Captain Kelly Swift of the New York state police said this about what they found. "Sam was subjected to repeated acts of violence and torture in a manner that ultimately led to his death." They believe that he was tortured for weeks before he died. Investigators, though, still working to determine the relationship between Nordquist and all of the people now charged.

And we also have an important update on Pope Francis. Just in, the words of the Vatican is this, that the pope has a poly microbial infection of his respiratory tract, adding that tests indicate a, quote, "complex clinical picture" that will require the hospital treatment to be changed. Pontiff did not lead Sunday's prayers, as he usually does, though he did send a message thanking doctors and health care workers for their care.

The pope is 88 years old. He was hospitalized on Friday. We reported this for you after having difficulty breathing and recovering from a series of respiratory issues.

And then there is SNL. Saturday Night Live celebrated 50 years of pure awesomeness with a star studded show this weekend. The show brought together SNL alum, former hosts, all of or at least many of your favorite characters from over the years. There was even a surprise performance from Adam Sandler, who brought along his guitar to honor some of SNL's longtime crew members.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

ADAM SANDLER, ACTOR AND COMEDIAN: Fifty years of cast members saying, "I think our cast is the greatest of all time, but we all know that the first cast was the best. And because of them, we got four years of Eddie Murphy. Eight years of Will Forte. 45 years of Lorne. Six years of our boy Farley, five of our buddy Norm.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BOLDUAN: John?

BERMAN: It's really sweet. Actually, people got pretty emotional there, including Adam Sandler at the end of that.

All right. This morning, all the reaction from the NBA All-Star Game or Games. Actually, it was a new format with this mini tournament. CNN's Carolyn Manno here to explain.

CAROLYN MANNO, CNN SPORTS CORRESPONDENT: I'll try. I don't have a ton of time. I mean, give the NBA some credit for trying to do something different. The reviews were a little bit mixed, but this year's All- Star Game in San Francisco had a new look. Instead of two teams playing the traditional 48-minute game, players split into four squads facing off in a tournament style playoff. And Steph Curry set the tone early for Team Shaq. He drained a running three to open the championship game against Charles Barkley's Global Stars, and then that shot right there sparked an 11-0 run.

Later, he would connect again, this time from half court. I know it makes it look so easy, right? He scored a combined 20 points in both games. He was named the game's MVP for the second time in his 16-year career.