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Kristen Brengel is Interviewed about the National Parks; Americans Views on Russia and Putin; Rahm Emanuel is Interviewed about Elon Musk; Musk Attacks "60 Minutes". Aired 8:30-9a ET

Aired February 18, 2025 - 08:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

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[08:32:09]

KATE BOLDUAN, CNN ANCHOR: The National Park Service is now the latest federal agency feeling the impact of President Trump's efforts to slash the size of the federal workforce. One thousand of the department's 20,000 employees were just fired, leaving an agency already known to be understaffed and in an even more uncertain position now. More than 300 million people visit America's 400 plus national parks each year. And the impact of having even fewer employees at the parks could soon be seen and felt across the country, especially as we head into the heavy summer season.

Here's how the mayor of Springdale, Utah, home of Zion National Park, is reacting to these firings and cuts.

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MAYOR BARBARA BRUNO, SPRINGDALE, UTAH: If it's the employees that are gone, I'm not sure how the park could stay open. It would be chaos in there.

I mean the park needed more funding anyway. It was - there's a lot of deferred maintenance that hasn't been done.

It's the second most visited park in the country. And if that's not worth preserving and throwing some money at, I'm not sure what is.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BOLDUAN: Joining us right now is Kristen Brengel. She's a senior vice president of government affairs for the National Parks Conservation Association, the leading independent, non-partisan membership organization devoted exclusively to advocacy on behalf of the national park system.

Kristen, thanks for coming in.

KRISTEN BRENGEL, SENIOR VP OF GOVERNMENT AFFAIRS, NATIONAL PARKS CONSERVATION ASSOCIATION: Thanks, Kate.

BOLDUAN: What - what are you hearing right now from public lands and parks workers? Who's impacted by these cuts? What are they saying?

BRENGEL: They're distressed. They think the national parks aren't going to function well this summer and spring break. And the people that we're losing are critical staff with expertise. These are folks that do search and rescue. These are water treatment operators. These are people who welcome staff at the visitor centers. So, a loss of these folks will mean that the parks will not be well staffed this summer and spring break.

BOLDUAN: What is it going to mean for the national parks? How is the impact going to be felt? How are people going to see this, especially when we start heading into that peak summer season for the parks?

BRENGEL: So most of us, when we go to our national parks, whether it's Yellowstone or Yosemite or the Everglades, we start off our trip at the visitor center and we use the bathroom there. We ask a park ranger about the trip. We figure out where we're going to go for the day.

This cut could mean that visitor centers have to close more often. The bathrooms won't be accessible. That visitors won't have enough rangers to speak to about their trip.

And this sort of puts visitors in a tight spot. It makes it a little bit less friendly and welcoming when you go to the national parks.

[08:35:01]

And one of the things that we're really worried about are - if people don't have everything they need when they're in the park, there won't be enough search and rescue folks to help them if they are in need.

BOLDUAN: And, Kristen, what can be done? I've seen that some other organizations are speaking with employees if they want to bring litigation. What are you all considering doing about these findings - or these firings? How do you fight it?

BRENGEL: We want Congress to step in. We want Congress to say this is unacceptable. Congress, these are their constituents as well. Three hundred and twenty-five million people visit our national parks every year. It's time for Congress to step in and make sure parks are well staffed and really ask the administration and compel the administration to reinstate these positions. We did that with seasonals. It's time to do it with the full time staff people as well.

But this is everyone's problem going into the spring break and summer season, and we want Congress to take some responsibility for this as well and call on the administration to reinstate these folks and get them back to their jobs.

BOLDUAN: The president, his supporters, have backed the firings as the way it - they talk about it is the way to cut what they see as excessive spending, a bloated federal government. A spokesperson for the EPA, which also saw cuts, put it this way to "The New York Times," "President Trump was elected with a mandate to create more effective and efficient federal government that serves all Americans, and we are doing just that." That's a spokesperson for the EPA after the agency announced layoffs.

If that same statement was applied to the cuts for the National Park Service, what do you say - what do you say to that, and to the sentiment that the national parks can do enough with less?

BRENGEL: They can't, and they've already been doing a lot with less. Since 2010, the Park Service has been understaffed by 20 percent. And let me give you another statistic. One-fifteenth of 1 percent of the federal budget is how much the Park Service costs. It's peanuts. It's not very much money, and it contributes - the entire park system contributes $55 billion to the economy. So, an understaffed, unwelcoming park system this summer could really harm our economy and local communities. And we call the communities right outside of parks gateway communities. All of these places could feel the ripple effect of having an understaffed park.

So, we don't think there's any efficiency here. We think it's a terrible economic decision. And we think, since parks have already been understaffed for the last 15 years, this is really not going to help this situation. It's just going to make it worse.

BOLDUAN: Kristen Brengel, thank you so much for coming in.

Coming up for us, a case of mistaken identity takes a horrible turn when a man opens fire on two innocent tourists. He now faces attempted murder charges. One group calling it a hate crime.

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[08:42:17]

BOLDUAN: American and Russian officials just wrapped the first high stakes, face to face talks on ending Russia's war in Ukraine. Secretary of State Marco Rubio coming out of the meeting, as we were all listening together, saying the United States and Russia agreed on four principles in this opening round of talks, including opening lines of communications and, as he described it, beginning the first step in what he called a long and difficult journey.

President Trump has said he will meet with the Russian president, Vladimir Putin, soon, raising the question, how do Americans feel about the Russian leader?

CNN's Harry Enten has more. He's here with me now to run the numbers.

Yesterday, for context, we talked about how Americans feel about support for Ukraine and how that has softened. What's the view now of Russia?

HARRY ENTEN, CNN SENIOR DATA REPORTER: Yes. Americans may have softened on Ukraine, but when it comes to Russia, Americans don't trust Russia as far as they can throw them. I mean, my goodness gracious, favorable view of Russia. You go back to 2020, Kate, it was 28 percent. 2022 it dropped to 15 percent. In 2024, just 8 percent of Americans hold a favorable view of Russia. To put this in context, about as many Americans believe that we faked the moon landing as have a favorable view of Russia.

The vast majority of Americans, 61 percent, actually think of Russia as an enemy. Just 4 percent - just 4 percent think - think of them as a partner. So, the bottom line is, views on Russia, very, very, very negative.

BOLDUAN: That's the view of Russia. What about Putin specifically?

ENTEN: What about Putin specifically? I mean, once again, I mean, how Americans view Putin, confident he'll do the right thing when it comes to world affairs, just 8 percent. Favorable view of him, of Vladimir Putin, just 9 percent. I mean, my goodness gracious, about as many Americans believe that the earth is flat as have a favorable view of Vladimir Putin.

So, when it comes to Russia, it comes to - and it comes to Vladimir Putin, Americans, simply put, do not trust him or the country itself.

BOLDUAN: OK, now to the view - another aspect of the view of the - Russia's war on Ukraine, how do Americans feel about Ukraine using U.S. weapons against Russia?

ENTEN: Yes. You know, so we spoke about yesterday about how Americans views of Ukraine have softened, the favorable views, and here were talking about negative views of Russia. I think this kind of puts in a context about how Americans feel about Russia when matched up against Ukraine.

Ukraine using U.S. weapons in Russia. Take a look here, 52 percent of Americans support that idea, compared to just 43 percent who oppose. Even Republicans are split on this question, basically 50/50, 49 percent to 49 percent. So, I guess the whole big takeaway here is, yes, views of Ukraine have softened, but Americans really don't trust or like Russia, Kate.

BOLDUAN: Understandably so, given its track record.

ENTEN: Yes.

BOLDUAN: Thanks, Harry.

ENTEN: Thank you.

BOLDUAN: John.

JOHN BERMAN, CNN ANCHOR: All right, this morning we are getting a new look at President Trump and Elon Musk side by side, with Musk talking about the reaction to him and his White House leadership.

[08:45:06]

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ELON MUSK: I mean, I used to be adored by the left, you know?

SEAN HANNITY, FOX NEWS HOST: Not anymore. MUSK: Less so these days.

HANNITY: He - he killed that, huh?

DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: I killed it.

MUSK: I mean less -

TRUMP: I - I really didn't know that (ph).

MUSK: Well, look, I mean this whole sort of like, you know, it was - they call it like Trump derangement syndrome. And I don't - you know, you don't realize how real this is until like it's - you can't reason with people.

So, like, I was at a friend's birthday party in L.A., just a birthday dinner, and every - it was like a nice, quiet dinner and everything was - everyone was behaving normally. And then I happened to mention - this is before the election, like a month or two before. I happened to mention the president's name. And it was like they got shot with a dart in the jugular that contained, like, methamphetamine and rabies, OK? And they're like, why? And I'm like, what is wrong - like, guys, like, you can't have like a normal conversation.

HANNITY: Yes.

MUSK: And it's like - it's like they become completely irrational.

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BERMAN: All right, with us now is Rahm Emanuel, former ambassador to Japan, former mayor of Chicago, former White House chief of staff, former congressman, but most importantly now CNN senior political and global affairs commentator.

Ambassador, thank you so much for being with us.

RAHM EMANUEL, CNN SENIOR POLITICAL AND GLOBAL AFFAIRS COMMENTATOR: Hi, John.

BERMAN: What do you think of the Democratic reaction so far to Elon Musk and how effective it has been?

EMANUEL: Well, to me, that's not the focus. The focus is on what President Trump is doing. And that should be where the concentration is. I mean there is a focus in the sense of an unelected official having full access to private records. Having been one of my first bills in Congress was about privacy and medical and financial records, the idea that a person not confirmed by the U.S. Senate is rummaging through collecting - and the federal government has the most extensive collection of data on individuals throughout the United States, whether that's through the IRS, Social Security, just to name a few places. The idea that they are rummaging through that data, not just with security background checks, but also with firewalls that are established, is a dangerous precedent for a country that believes in not only your privacy, but fundamentally also believes in protecting that information, especially in a period of AI. It's a - it's an open source.

Now, from a political standpoint, which is kind of where the question was, John, that idea of focusing on Musk versus Trump, I would stay laser focused on the president of the United States, from a purely political partisan. But there's a larger question that also should be a part of the discussion. The idea that privacy and your personal data, whether its medical, financial or otherwise, and taxes are now being rummaged through by people that have no background checks or no experience doing that. That is a very dangerous place to go. And I think the American people believe fundamentally in their privacy.

BERMAN: Why the laser focus politically on the president and not Elon Musk? Because we're hearing a lot of Democrats talk about Musk.

EMANUEL: I understand that. And that's because that's the shiny bauble over here. The president of the United States is the person that was elected. The president of the United States is the one who, as, you know, Harry S. Truman finely said, "the buck stops here." He was the one that - he'll decide whether, in fact, you're going to have an avian flu, bird flu, that's going to be a major pandemic. We're going to fire all these scientists. We're going to basically shut the NIH, CDC down. Egg prices are going way up, and we have no scientists that are actually on the job, the cops on the beat, to protect Americans.

So, the price of groceries are up. The price of eggs are up. And also we're going to see one or two mutations away from a major, major epidemic, potentially in the United States. And to me, that's the president's responsibility to protect America. And we're going to see whether these type of cuts, these type of reckless behavior is going to end up creating the conditions for a pandemic.

Everybody you talk to - and one element is the price of eggs. The other element is, you're a mutation away from a major problem where you can - from human to human exposure and pass on a new type of pandemic flu. That has got massive consequences. And now we're basically laying off the very scientists.

And as you know, last week, they're now searching for the nuclear scientists to bring them back, that they fired recklessly. Well, you're going to have that situation. And it's a disease and a price of eggs that's going to come to your local grocery and your local health clinic.

BERMAN: I'm hearing you talk - I'm hearing you talk about eggs and grocery stores and disease. You came up during Bill Clinton. You raised money for his 1992 campaign. And you've said that part of the political genius of Bill Clinton was that he knew how to find the right issue that cuts like a hot knife through butter. So, as you're observing this now, what do you think - what do you think that issue is that might cut through for Democrats?

EMANUEL: Well, I think it's - one of the things I would focus on very straightforward, and it's in the data in the sense that I don't think the president's focusing on inflation.

[08:50:01] That is one of the core issues that he got elected. Why are we talking about the price of Greenland when we should be talking about the price of groceries?

But as an example of that, I think the Democrats, during the Super Bowl, should have all been at the grocery store in front of egg shelves showing how they were emptying out and the price of eggs are continuing to rise. They're now seven bucks a dozen. And to me, this is an example, nobody - I can't find a single time before the election, not a single time, but where the price of Greenland was the focus. It was the price of groceries that was going to be solved according to then candidate Trump on day one. The price of eggs are going up and we fired all the people that are going to protect us from avian flu, destroying more and more of the chickens throughout the United States.

BERMAN: You're -

EMANUEL: And you could see the price. So, to me, there - this is about inflation. This is about President Trump taking his eye off the ball. They are not - we're not interested in the price of Greenland, we're interested in the price of groceries.

BERMAN: Your friend - your old friend, James Carville -

EMANUEL: And that's what (INAUDIBLE) focus on.

BERMAN: Your old friend James Carville talked about what he thinks the reaction of Democrats should be. He says, "what I think they should do is what we call in rural America play possum. Just let it go. Don't get in the way of it or, as we like to say, don't just stand there, do nothing." So, sort of let Trump cook for now until maybe he goes too far? What do you think of that?

EMANUEL: You know, I don't dismiss what James has to say. I don't agree with him on this one.

Second example. Let's take government reform where I think Democrats should be on the price of not just defending government. Here's an example. In 2023 they aggregated all the inspector general reports. They added up to $93 billion in savings. I would file a case today. It's very clear by the law that the president broke the law. You'd have to have 30 day notice for all the inspector generals who are the police on the beat against waste, fraud and abuse.

DOGE has basically found maybe a couple billion dollars. There's $93 billion found by the professionals. Let's put each and every one of those up for a vote to cut, and they should be not only up for a vote, they should be amendments to the appropriations process. You've got $93 billion of savings. Right now that's $9 more per dollar that DOGE has found. And I would be the party that wants to reform government, wants to find waste, fraud and abuse. Rather than defending the institutions, reforming the institution should be the brand of Democrats.

BERMAN: Rahm Emanuel, it's great to have you at CNN. Great to have you for the first time on the flagship morning show. Appreciate your time.

This morning, a Florida man is being charged with attempted murder, accused of shooting two tourists because he thought they were Palestinian.

And a new video shows the moment a teenager was rescued from a mine shaft 50 feet below ground.

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[08:57:12]

BOLDUAN: A Florida man is facing attempted murder charges now after police say he shot and injured two men because he thought they were Palestinian. The suspect was arrested Saturday in Miami Beach after he allegedly fired 17 shots into the victim's car. Police say the father and son were actually Israeli tourists. Surveillance video shows the two men running from the car, searching for help. Both victims were wounded but are expected to be OK.

A warehouse in Pennsylvania went up in flames Monday after a reported explosion inside. The complex, just north of Philadelphia, was evacuated immediately. That's a massive fire. People in nearby homes and businesses are being told to avoid the area as crews continue battling what's going - what's happening there in the hotspots that remain.

There's also new video in showing the dramatic rescue of a teenager who got stuck inside a narrow mine shaft in California. Sixteen-years- old. Got sucked 50 feet down. He was exploring the mine shaft with friends when his rope broke on their climb out. The teen tried to free climb back up but could not. He was taken to a local trauma center for treatment and should be OK. The thing of nightmares, John.

BERMAN: All right, so Elon Musk is calling for journalists at "60 Minutes." He's calling them the, quote, "biggest liars in the world." And he declared they deserve to serve, quote, "a long prison sentence."

With us now is CNN chief media analyst Brian Stelter.

And, Brian, it's interesting because he's saying this at the same time that Vice President Vance is giving speeches overseas about free speech.

BRIAN STELTER, CNN CHIEF MEDIA ANALYST: That's exactly right, John. And I just couldn't help but try to point out the hypocrisy involving this, John.

And it's not just yours truly pointing it out. If you go and look at Elon Musk's Twitter feed, many of his fans are piling on him saying, dude, you said you were a free speech absolutist. You have decried free speech restrictions in other countries. So, what are you doing talking about prison time for journalists?

This started on Sunday night when "60 Minutes" aired a really interesting segment about the cuts to USAID, that agency that was dismantled by Musk and DOGE and the Trump administration. Musk responded, calling "60 Minutes" a bunch of liars, and calling for long prison sentences. That's the kind of really unhinged comment we've heard from Musk time and time again as he's become the leading, most vicious media basher in the entire Trump administration. Oftentimes he posts so much that he gets a pass for some of these comments. I counted and yesterday Musk tweeted at least 94 times and retweeted dozens of other times. So, he's putting so much out there, it's like an avalanche. It's hard to keep up.

But in this case, when he was decrying "60 Minutes," even many of his own fans said, hey, wait a minute, you're going too far. You said you were in support of all free speech. What are you doing talking about jail time? It's an interesting example of how even Musk's allies and fans can hold him accountable sometimes.

[09:00:02]

BERMAN: And, Brian, you've written eloquently on the difference between the discussion over free speech and what you call favored speech.