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Nick Akerman is Interviewed about the Adams Case; Pavlo Kukhta is Interviewed about Russia/Ukraine Peace Deal; 25 Million Americans Suffer from Aerophobia. Aired 9:30-10a ET

Aired February 18, 2025 - 09:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[09:30:00]

GLORIA PAZMINO, CNN NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Now, we should mention that the governor does have the power to remove the mayor, but it's not a simple process. There is a due process that goes along with her taking that executive action. So, this is not necessarily the kind of thing that would make anything be resolved overnight.

She has said that she has given it serious thought, and she has also said that she's very concerned about the developments that have happened here in New York City and in this administration in the last two weeks, including those high-profile resignations from four top city officials, which happened yesterday. This is a real moment where there's a lot of lawmakers here in the city, including the governor, questioning where - whether city hall is steady enough to make sure that government and services are being delivered to New Yorkers.

In the meantime, Kate, we know that this is all as part of the fallout that we have seen from that DOJ memo ordering the dismissal of Adams' charges. That has not been officially done yet. That is a move that has to be made by the judge overseeing this case.

And we just learned in the last few minutes that there is a hearing set for tomorrow. The judge has called in both parties to talk about this. So, we might actually see some sort of resolution on whether these charges are going to get dropped tomorrow, or at least would get - we'll get a signal from the judge to see how he is looking at this and what his thoughts on the DOJ memo are.

Kate.

KATE BOLDUAN, CNN ANCHOR: All right, Gloria, thank you so much for that update.

And at least one group is now asking that federal judge to appoint a special counsel before making a decision on the Justice Department's directive to dismiss the case against Adam. Common Cause is a public interest advocacy group and writes to the judge this in part, "with the government agreeing with Mr. Adams to dismiss the indictment, no party before the court is representing the public interest. We respectfully ask the court to appoint a special counsel to advise the court in resolving this unfortunate matter.

Joining us right now is Nick Akerman, an attorney representing Common Cause and former assistant U.S. attorney for the Southern District, who's been on with us many times.

Nick, thanks for being here.

You're urging the federal judge, just as I said, to reject the dismissal request, one -

NICK AKERMAN, FORMER ASSISTANT SPECIAL WATERGATE PROSECUTOR AND FORMER ASSISTANT U.S. ATTORNEY, SOUTHERN DISTRICT OF NEW YORK: Right.

BOLDUAN: And look towards - and look towards a special counsel. Everything that I've read, I know I'm not an attorney, is that federal judges have little ability under law to dismiss a - dismiss charges that - to reject a dismissal when the government requests to drop criminal charges. Why do you think this one is different?

AKERMAN: Well, this one is a lot different because it has to do with - it has to be done with the leave of the court. And that was inserted in the rule, leave of the court, in case there was a situation where it was corrupt, and it was not in the public interest.

And we at Common Cause truly believe that what we have here is a corrupt quid pro quo, where basically the government has come in, told Eric Adams, we're going to drop the charges, but you've got to dance to our tune. And we're going to put in a safety valve for us, that it will be dismissed without prejudice. And what that means is, they can reinstate the charges if Eric Adams doesn't do what they want to do.

I mean this reminds me of that old 1956 movie, "The Invasion of the Body Snatchers." They've basically taken over Eric Adams. We no longer have an independent mayor of the city of New York. And he's going to have to look over his back every two seconds to make sure he's following directions from Washington. That is not the way our system should work.

BOLDUAN: And with your request also, there is a lot going on. Gloria just mentioned, a hearing being called tomorrow. You have the - you have Governor Hochul now considering whether she would remove Eric Adams from office.

How - what could tomorrow's hearing mean for what you're asking for? What could Governor Hochul's consideration of removing Eric Adams mean - change in your calculation?

AKERMAN: Well, I think what we need to do, and what Common Cause is looking to do, is to bring out all of the facts here. It's very important that the public become as much educated as possible about how this deal was made, how this corrupt deal went forward. This is a very unusual situation where we have written out in papers that have now come out, letters, between the acting U.S. attorney, Danielle Sassoon, and the acting deputy attorney general, Emil Bove, where essentially it is so obvious that there is a quid pro quo. This was all illegal.

And I think that the end result may be one of two things. Kathy Hochul may remove him from office, which would be appropriate under these circumstances. BOLDUAN: OK.

AKERMAN: And, two, there's a question about whether or not the state should come in and take over this case because even if the judge dismissed the case in federal court, it doesn't mean that this couldn't be brought again in the state court, criminal court, because Donald Trump has no control over the state.

[09:35:06]

BOLDUAN: Right.

AKERMAN: He has no authority to pardon anybody on the state.

BOLDUAN: What - what could happen tomorrow? Do you think tomorrow could mean, with this hearing, do you think that the judge could announce that the charges are dropped?

AKERMAN: Oh, I doubt very much if that's going to happen tomorrow.

BOLDUAN: OK.

AKERMAN: I think if I had to make the best guess here, and again it's a guess.

BOLDUAN: Of course.

AKERMAN: I think what he's going to say is, that there's going to be a hearing. He's going to ask people when they're available, and I think he's going to lay out a schedule as to moving forward on this. This is not something I think he's going to decide, you know, in 24 hours.

BOLDUAN: What do you think your chances are of getting a special counsel appointed?

AKERMAN: I think it's very good. This happened with the - the Flynn case. Michael Flynn, in Washington, D.C. In that situation it was the same thing, that the judge - the judge there brought in a special counsel, because the problem here is that the public doesn't have a seat at the table. The only two parties here are the Department of Justice and Eric Adams, and both of them want the case dismissed. There is no litigant that's actually arguing in favor of the public interest here and to point out to the judge the corrupt deal that was struck.

BOLDUAN: This is very interesting what's going to be happening just in the next 24 hours.

Nick, thank you so much for bringing this to us.

AKERMAN: Thank you.

BOLDUAN: Really appreciate it.

So, the U.S. and Russia wrapped the first talks about ending Russia's war on Ukraine. Not at the table today was Ukraine. Still, the U.S. delegation says that Ukraine is being consulted and will have a seat at the table. So, what does Ukraine think about all of this? We're going to take you there.

And a daring rescue 50 feet underground. New video showing firefighters pulling a teen from a mineshaft after a terrifying fall.

We'll be right back.

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[09:41:26]

JOHN BERMAN, CNN ANCHOR: All right, just a few moments ago, talks wrapped up between the United States and Russia on ending the war in Ukraine. Those talks took place without the presence of Ukraine. U.S. National Security Adviser Michael Waltz says the negotiations very well will focus on territory and security guarantees.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

MIKE WALTZ, NATIONAL SECURITY ADVISER: This needs to be a permanent end to the war and not a temporary end, as we've seen in the past. We know just the practical reality is that there is going to be some discussion of territory, and there's going to be a discussion of security guarantees.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BERMAN: So, the Ukrainian president, Volodymyr Zelenskyy, insists there is no agreement possible without Ukraine.

With us now is Pavlo Kukhta, Ukrainian Economist, former Acting Minister of Ukraine Economic Development.

Sir, thank you so much for being with us. You heard the U.S. National Security Advisor saying we know there will be discussions about territory. How do you feel about that?

PAVLO KUKHTA, UKRAINIAN ECONOMIST: Look, I feel that as we are trying to reach peace in Ukraine, and what we can definitely say, I think, for all of us, first of all, for Ukrainians, is that peace is very much wanted, right? People are dying every day. It has been going on for three years. Ukrainians are war veterans, so is the world. So this needs to be stopped somehow.

And, of course, in any configuration, any situation, stopping this requires negotiations, and these will include negotiations on territory. Of course, it is also important that these negotiations do not get, let's say, hijacked by Russia, for example, and kind of end up discussing what Russia wants without Ukrainians' interests being properly represented, without the West formulating a properly well- thought-through position that would allow us to come out of them in a balanced fashion, right, with a peace agreement that is actually sustainable, so that we do not get more war in the future, and that we can actually start restoring the region and developing it again, right, because this terrible catastrophe has not only destroyed lives, but essentially, for three years, Ukraine has ceased to develop at all, right? It's a war camp. Our economy is not growing. Our people are busy learning how to fight rather than how to, you know, procreate AIs, right, which they are actually quite good at.

The nations around us are in the same position. Everyone is militarizing. We do not want that, OK? We definitely need to get through it. So, I feel good that this is happening, as do more than half of Ukrainians, according to the Gallup polls that we have. But, of course, everyone is wary of, I mean, this is still war, and negotiations are still war, and this is all high-cost, and it's important that Ukraine is properly represented there, Europe is represented there. It's important that a lot of things happen in a correct fashion. But the process itself is right. I feel it is the right thing and the good thing that we are trying to get to peace.

BERMAN: You mentioned economic development inside Ukraine. The United States -- the United States Treasury Secretary, made a proposal to President Zelenskyy that the U.S. would take a 50% interest in the mineral deposits in Ukraine.

[09:45:00]

This, I think, is within your area of expertise. What do you think about that?

KUKHTA: Look, I've seen the drafts that have been circulated in the international media, and they are extremely raw. It's not even a memorandum of understanding yet. It's more like a general idea, somewhat unbalanced, I would say, because I think, OK, this has to imply some kind of security guarantees from the U.S.

In principle, this, if developed well and if thought through well and agreed upon by both sides, would actually be a decent instrument of letting the U.S. investors into Ukrainian economy. But it has to be a much more detailed document for that. Because right now, I don't even see how to implement what's written there. It's just a general idea. It's not even clear what kind of resources are we talking about, because they are very different. And if we're talking about rare earth, for example, something that is strategic for the U.S., it's actually less about the resources lying on the ground. It's more about processing. It's about creating a processing industry on the ground, which could be a great idea for Ukraine and for the U.S. as well. But this needs to be elaborated on in the document, right? And someone needs to come and invest money into it.

So it has to be much more detailed for it to work. It's very low resolution at this point.

BERMAN: Got it. I've heard a lot of people say it's got to have much more specific returns for that investment as well.

KUKHTA: Exactly.

BERMAN: Promises of security from the United States, which were not part of that.

Pavlo Kukhta, we appreciate your time this morning. Thank you very much.

The leader of a cult-like group known as the Zizians arrested after the group was connected to a string of alleged murders across the country.

And will there be boos? Will there be fights? There will be a rematch for the ages. Look at these photos from the first U.S./Canada hockey game just a few nights ago. They're extraordinary. What are we going to see in the rematch on Thursday?

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[09:51:26]

BERMAN: In Maryland this morning, a bail hearing will be held for the leader of a group called the Zizians. Some have called it a cult-like group. Jack Lasota and another group member were arrested on Sunday. They are charged with trespassing, obstructing and firearms possession. The group has been linked to several homicides, including the killing of a U.S. Border Patrol agent near the Canadian border in January.

So, this morning, the rematch is set. USA and Canada in the finals of the four nations face-off. They just played Saturday. And it was a doozy. Three fights within the first nine seconds of the game. One of my friends texted me, the best first nine seconds in sports history. The U.S. won that game. This is what the coaches are saying about the rematch.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

MIKE SULIVAN, TEAM USA COACH: I would anticipate the next one will be as - every bit as competitive, if - if not more.

JON COOPER, TEAM CANADA COACH: And now it's - it's win one more game. It just happens to be against the team that beat us after the fireworks that went off on Saturday night. So, I think it should be a pretty good made for TV event.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BERMAN: The puck drops at 8:00 p.m. in the hub of the hockey universe, Boston, Massachusetts.

Kate.

BOLDUAN: Just dripping with - with bias. Dripping.

OK, the Delta plane crash in Toronto is the fourth major aviation accident in North America in the past month. Most recently, ten people were killed when a small regional plane crashed in Alaska less than three weeks ago. Sixty-seven people were killed after an American Airlines passenger jet collided mid-air with a U.S. Army helicopter in Washington, D.C. And in Philadelphia, seven people were killed and dozens were injured after a medevac jet carrying a child patient and her mother crashed into a neighborhood there. Accidents like these raise questions, of course, once again, about flying safety, airline safety, airplane safety. They also spotlight something that many people face, an extreme fear of flying.

CNN's Jacqueline Howard has more on this. She's joining us now.

How many people have this phobia, Jacqueline?

JACQUELINE HOWARD, CNN HEALTH REPORTER: Oh, Kate, this phobia is one of the most common out there. More than 25 million adults here in the United States experience what's called aerophobia, this extreme fear of flying. And this most commonly affects ages 17 to 34. That's typically when we see this phobia develop.

And the way to know that you have this phobia is if you experience symptoms that persist over time, for more than six months. So, this isn't just occasionally you get a little nervous when there's turbulence on a plane. This is an extreme fear.

And the symptoms that I'm talking about are physical and behavioral. So physical symptoms include shortness of breath, rapid heartbeat, sweating, trembling, having even nausea, dizziness, vomiting, when you think about flying or when you're on a flight. And then behavioral symptoms occur, for instance, if last minute, just moments before boarding, a plane, you cancel the flight because of this fear, or you opt to drive an obscene number of hours or take an extremely long train ride instead of flying, when flying would be more convenient.

So, this is the type of phobia, this is the level of fear that we're talking about here, Kate.

BOLDUAN: And like so many are - many people who suffer from phobias, it's all about being able to manage it. I mean, what can people do to manage this?

HOWARD: Yes. Absolutely. Definitely talk with your doctor if this is something that persists over time and something that impacts your day to day life. There's therapy. There's virtual reality treatment options, for instance.

[09:55:03]

There's also medication. But something you can do on your own when you're on a flight and you start to experience those physical symptoms, deep breathing can help. Set a timer on your phone for ten minutes, and do this for at least ten minutes. Breathe in through your nose for five seconds, hold for two seconds, then breathe out through pursed lips for seven seconds. And if you do that for at least ten minutes, that can help calm some of those physical symptoms that I mentioned.

BOLDUAN: Jacqueline, thank you so much. Really helpful. Thank you.

BERMAN: Good advice for people.

BOLDUAN: Very good advice.

BERMAN: It's a serious thing.

BOLDUAN: On - and that kind of deep breathing is helpful in many situations.

BERMAN: I do it every morning before the show, just before seeing you.

Thank you all for joining us this morning. This has been CNN NEWS CENTRAL. "NEWSROOM" is up next.

BOLDUAN: I mean that was like so - that was such a mean dig.

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