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NY Governor Convenes NYC Leaders and Demands for Adams To Resign; Stephen Miller, White House Deputy Chief Of Staff For Policy, Discusses Musk's Employment Status, Trump and DOGE Cutting Federal Staff; Military.Com: $151M-Plus In Soldiers' Food Payments Not Used On Food. Aired 2:30-3p ET
Aired February 18, 2025 - 14:30 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
[14:30:00]
GLORIA PAZMINO, CNN NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: The mayor is surrounded there by several clergy leaders here in the city. Some of them have put out a letter encouraging the governor to essentially take her time and not take this decision lightly.
And she doesn't. She has said that she recognizes that this is a very serious thing to consider, removing a duly democratically elected mayor of New York City, and that she is consulting.
So today, she's been meeting with the Reverend Al Sharpton. She's meeting with Congressmen Hakeem Jeffries and Gregory Meeks. She's also holding meetings with some of the city's leaders that have called for his resignation to try and determine the best path forward.
But it seems like, for now, everyone involved is closely watching what's going to happen at that court hearing tomorrow.
BRIANNA KEILAR, CNN HOST: All right, Gloria Pazmino, thank you so much.
And we'll be right back.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[14:35:24]
KEILAR: Court documents filed by the Trump administration are raising new questions about Elon Musk's role in the White House.
The filings say Musk is not an employee, nor is he an administrator of the Department of Government Efficiency, also known as DOGE.
Instead, the billionaire is described as an advisor to the president, working as a special government employee.
And, like other senior advisers, this filing says, "Musk has no actual or formal authority to make government decisions himself."
With us now is Stephen Miller. He is the White House deputy chief of staff for policy. Stephen, thank you so much for taking time for us.
So who is in charge of DOGE?
STEPHEN MILLER, WHITE HOUSE DEPUTY CHIEF OF STAFF FOR POLICY: The president of the United States.
KEILAR: He's the administrator of DOGE?
MILLER: No, the DOGE is the -- what was formerly U.S. Digital Services. It's an agency in the federal government that reports into the office of -- the executive office of the president, which reports to the president of the United States.
KEILAR: OK.
MILLER: The way that Article II works is a president wins an election, and then he appoints staff, including myself, including Mike Waltz, including Susie Wiles, including Elon Musk --
KEILAR: Yes.
MILLER: -- and those staff report to him.
KEILAR: OK. Well aware.
So Elon Musk a week ago answered a question about transparency at DOGE. This is how he spoke about DOGE.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
ELON MUSK, CEO, TESLA, SPACEX & OWNER OF X: Well, we actually are trying to be as transparent as possible. In fact, our actions -- we post our actions to the DOGE handle on X and to the DOGE Web site. So all of our actions are maximally transparent.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
KEILAR: So you hear him there. We post "our" actions, all of "our" actions are maximally transparent. Does Elon Musk know he's not in charge of DOGE?
MILLER: Again, the president runs the government. Then the president appoints advisers, including Elon, including myself, including all the other staff here at the White House.
And then those staff, in turn, execute the president's commands and directions to all the agencies of the federal government. This is how democracy works, something that we treasure in America.
The whole American people go to the ballot box, they elect the president, the president appoints staff, the staff that administer his orders and directives across the whole U.S. government.
KEILAR: OK, Stephen, I get that. But this is important because we want to talk about who is making the decisions here. There were 300 employees, the National Nuclear Security Administration
-- you know about this -- they were fired. The agency had to resend those terminations because these were employees who were critical to maintaining the nation's nuclear stockpile.
So then who is it making those decisions of which federal employees are terminated?
MILLER: Well, in that case, the secretary of energy would be the one.
So what you're describing with the -- the cuts in the Department of Energy, those are directed by the Senate-confirmed secretary of energy.
KEILAR: OK. So that was the secretary of energy's mistake?
MILLER: Well, I wouldn't use the term "mistake." I would say that it's pretty standard when you're downsizing government, you make cuts, you assess those cuts, you see who needs to be rehired, who needs to be kept, who needs to be --
(CROSSTALK)
KEILAR: That's not what happened here. You know that they were --
(CROSSTALK)
MILLER: -- all normal.
(CROSSTALK)
MILLER: I under --
(CROSSTALK)
KEILAR: These -- these aren't normal things.
(CROSSTALK)
MILLER: I understand. I understand that the -- I understand that -- that even a temporary interruption in federal employment is a great crisis and catastrophe for you and for CNN.
What the American people see is a government that is finally delivering a promise of accountability under President Trump.
You want to have a conversation about transparency, let me ask you a question. Do you have any idea where the $22 billion that the Department of Health and Human Services provided to illegal aliens under Joe Biden is right now, $22 billion with a "B."
That's enough to provide a free house to every homeless veteran in America. Where's the $22 billion? I don't know. You don't know. Nobody knows. Joe Biden just spent it and now it's gone.
Transparency begins with having an accounting of where every federal dollar is spent. And God bless President Trump for leading this effort.
KEILAR: Stephen, it seems like the crisis here had to do with the nation's nuclear stockpile. And for these particular federal workers, which -- which I'm not, so this isn't my personal crisis.
Military members of the Guard --
(CROSSTALK)
MILLER: Well, I don't think it's a crisis. When you think --
(CROSSTALK)
KEILAR: Well, let me ask you about this. Military --
(CROSSTALK)
KEILAR: Well, this --
(CROSSTALK)
MILLER: I don't think it's a crisis and you don't think it's a crisis --
(CROSSTALK)
MILLER: -- why are we talking it?
KEILAR: -- military, military -- well, it is a crisis for some people. For instance, military members --
MILLER: Well, you just said you didn't think it was a crisis.
KEILAR: Military -- it's not my crisis, Stephen. I'm not a federal employee.
[14:40:00]
MILLER: OK, so I --
KEILAR: Military members --
MILLER: -- don't think it's a crisis --
(CROSSTALK)
MILLER: -- and you don't think it's a crisis, so no one --
KEILAR: It's not my personal crisis of employment. If you have concerns about the nation's nuclear stockpile, then it is obviously a crisis.
(CROSSTALK)
MILLER: Well, the concerns --
(CROSSTALK)
MILLER: -- when it comes to -- when it comes to --
(CROSSTALK)
KEILAR: Stephen, please.
(CROSSTALK)
MILLER: When it comes to nuclear weapons, I think --
KEILAR: Stephen, this is a very important question --
(CROSSTALK)
MILLER: Well, you want to talk about nuclear security, I'm happy to. The nuclear stockpile in this country has been aging and unmonitored for years.
President Trump is committed to the modernization of our nuclear --
KEILAR: OK, we were talking about the --
(CROSSTALK)
MILLER: -- stockpile and to historic investment in nuclear security.
Additionally, the president is committed to preventing global nuclear war, which we have never been closer to than we are right now.
And he is leading peace negotiations to end a war in Europe that could very well lead to nuclear war, which is the worst possible nuclear catastrophe any of us could envision.
KEILAR: OK, Stephen, so there are military members of the Guard and Reserve. They are protected by law from being fired from their day job while they're deployed.
I have learned that at one agency, an employee who is actually currently deployed with the military has been notified they've been fired.
Does your administration understand who actually makes up this workforce that they're dismantling?
MILLER: I'm sorry, I'm confused by your question. Is your question, does the president have the authority to fire a member of the U.S. military?
KEILAR: This is a -- this is someone who is a federal employee and is currently deployed, who has government protection, as I'm sure you're aware --
(CROSSTALK)
MILLER: There's a lot of -- KEILAR: -- protecting that.
MILLER: I don't know what laws you're referring to. I would love for you to be more specific. So far --
(CROSSTALK)
MILLER: -- you're not telling me the employee of the agency --
(CROSSTALK)
KEILAR: The Uniformed Services Employment and Reemployment Rights Act, it's well known by H.R. and the federal government and in -- in private industry as well.
MILLER: So -- OK, so you're saying that the president, in your view, doesn't have the authority to recall a member of the armed forces who may or may not -- again --
KEILAR: Who --
MILLER: -- I'm the first time hearing of this, that may or may not be serving overseas?
KEILAR: Stephen, you understand how the Guard and Reserve work. They have a day job, and then when they're activated, they deploy. While they deploy --
(CROSSTALK)
MILLER: Right, but your question --
(CROSSTALK)
KEILAR: -- employment is protected by law.
(LAUGHTER)
MILLER: Your question is lacking in so much detail. I promise you, I'm trying to follow your question. Are you -- are you asking me if the president has the authority to remove a member of the military who may be serving overseas?
(CROSSTALK)
KEILAR: My question --
MILLER: Is that your question?
KEILAR: My question was --
(CROSSTALK)
MILLER: OK, well, I don't know how much time you want to spend on this, but I'm not following your question --
(CROSSTALK)
KEILAR: Well, it's an important one. I guess I'll determine how much airtime I spend on it.
But does your administration understand who is in the federal workforce?
(LAUGHTER)
MILLER: Yes. We have such a broad question. Of course, we understand who's in the federal workforce. And -- and I'm happy to indulge all of these very histrionic questions that --
(CROSSTALK)
KEILAR: -- that 40 percent --
(CROSSTALK)
MILLER: -- fired that --
(CROSSTALK)
KEILAR: It's 30 percent veterans.
MILLER: I think that the --
KEILAR: And that you have people who are deployed?
MILLER: The -- the U.S. government has $36 trillion in debt. The interest payments on the debt exceed the national defense budget.
The American people are exhausted and tired of watching their tax dollars be corruptly spent, abused, wasted and, in every sense, robbed and stolen from them.
This president, for the first time in history, is committed to restoring accountability at every level of the federal government. You may assert there is no waste in the Pentagon. You may assert there is no waste in treasury.
(CROSSTALK)
MILLER: You may assert there's no waste in HHS.
(CROSSTALK)
KEILAR: -- Steven. Steven, I don't think anyone --
(CROSSTALK)
MILLER: Then why are you not celebrating these cuts? If you agree there is waste, if you agree there is abuse, if you agree there is corruption, why are you not celebrating the cuts, the reforms that are being instituted.
Every day that no action is taken, the entire --
(CROSSTALK)
KEILAR: Stephen, let's calm down.
MILLER: -- salaries of American workers that are taxed disappear forever.
KEILAR: Stephen, let's calm down.
MILLER: This is not --
KEILAR: This is not -- we're not having a debate --
MILLER: There's no reason --
KEILAR: -- about whether there are --
(CROSSTALK)
MILLER: Well, you are trying to debate me. And I -- I will be as excited as I want to be about the fact that we are saving Americans billions of dollars.
That we are ending the theft and waste and grift and corruption, that we are stopping American taxpayer dollars from subsidizing a rogue federal bureaucracy that has been relentlessly weaponized against the American people.
(CROSSTALK)
KEILAR: OK, Stephen --
(CROSSTALK)
MILLER: You may not care about this issue --
KEILAR: I'm talking about --
(CROSSTALK)
MILLER: You're calling this issue --
KEILAR: I care about this --
(CROSSTALK)
MILLER: We care about this issue --
(CROSSTALK)
KEILAR: -- about -- I understand that --
(CROSSTALK)
MILLER: -- about this issue -- (CROSSTALK)
KEILAR: They also care about privacy.
MILLER: And the American public overwhelmingly supports what President Trump --
KEILAR: Stephen --
MILLER: -- is trying to do.
KEILAR: Let's talk about IRS data the DOGE will be able to access. You have DOGE asking for access to the IRS systems. This includes the integrated data retrieval system.
I know you've talked about this a little bit. Will DOGE employees be able to access individual taxpayer I.D. numbers and Social Security numbers?
[14:45:09]
MILLER: No. But also keep in mind --
(CROSSTALK)
KEILAR: Will be able to access --
(CROSSTALK)
KEILAR: -- the taxpayer bank account information?
MILLER: They will not be able to access anything that any other appropriately authorized federal employee could access.
When you keep talking about, quote, "DOGE employees," you're just talking about federal workers. You're just literally talking about federal workers. So your question may as well be, can federal workers do their job?
The job of the federal --
KEILAR: No, that's not what I asked.
MILLER: -- workers at the IRS --
(CROSSTALK)
MILLER: -- is to prevent -- well, I'm telling you that -- that is actually what you are asking.
DOGE is part of the federal government. It is a term to describe the employees of the federal government who have been tasked with anti- fraud and anti-corruption activities.
Again, you may not consider it a scandal that millions of illegal aliens are accepting and receiving taxpayer benefits. You may not consider --
KEILAR: Let me ask you -
MILLER: -- it a scandal that millions of aliens have --
KEILAR: Let me ask you about that.
MILLER: -- stolen Social Security numbers. And --
(CROSSTALK)
KEILAR: And I want to ask --
(CROSSTALK)
KEILAR: I want to ask you about that.
MILLER: -- American resources.
KEILAR: You say -- you say that you're looking at widespread fraud in the IRS data. And -- that you mentioned yesterday and you mentioned again here, illegal immigrants who are getting child tax credits.
If -- are you looking for that information in the IRS data?
MILLER: Any time a crime is committed, of course, there should be an investigation. Is it your position that if somebody --
KEILAR: All right --
MILLER: -- who is here criminally --
(CROSSTALK)
KEILAR: -- Stephen, are you looking for that information in the IRS data?
MILLER: The federal government will find every illegal alien who is stealing American taxpayer dollars. And that is what Americans --
(CROSSTALK)
KEILAR: -- expect that in the IRS data.
(CROSSTALK)
MILLER: -- your question.
KEILAR: It's a simple question.
MILLER: And you --
(CROSSTALK)
KEILAR: If you find that information in the IRS data --
MILLER: Yes.
KEILAR: -- and share that with law enforcement?
MILLER: If IRS investigators find illegal aliens stealing taxpayer money, of course, they will be referred to ICE, of course, they will be referred to Homeland Security investigations. Of course, it will be.
Surely, your position is not that we should let illegal aliens steal taxpayer dollars. Again, you want to talk about somebody to be upset about, that's it.
What do you think? The millions of illegal aliens who have also stolen Social Security. Illegal aliens en mass have faked Social Security numbers. They have fake identities. Those are felonies.
Why should there be an entire class in this country that is immunized from criminal prosecution and arrest for committing felonies? Felony theft of taxpayer information, felony theft of Social Security, felony theft of identity? These are all crimes.
And, yes, they will be investigated. Yes, they will be prosecuted. And yes, he will be deported.
(CROSSTALK)
MILLER: And you know what will happen with those deportations --
(CROSSTALK)
KEILAR: -- this very quickly.
MILLER: -- Americans will get jobs. Americans --
(CROSSTALK)
MILLER: -- will get benefits.
(CROSSTALK)
MILLER: Americans will get housing.
KEILAR: Even if they got a child -- if they got a credit, a child tax credit, and they -- they will be referred, you're saying, to ICE for that? And you would expect deportation for that?
Is that -- is that the position of the administration.
MILLER: If it is found that a crime has been committed, they will be referred. If they -- if it is -- it justifies a prosecution, they will be prosecuted. If it justifies a deportation, they will be deported.
This will be based on existing IRS protocols and procedures for criminal investigation and fraud.
KEILAR: All right -- MILLER: The difference is that no one is given immunity anymore. No one is given permission to break the law anymore. Because this is not a country, this is not a sovereign territory if illegal aliens can freely steal billions -- with a "B" -- billions of taxpayer dollars.
And I would have to imagine that -- that CNN, which has endlessly talked about the importance of democracy and the rule of law, would say that no class in this country should be above the law, least of all illegal aliens who have trespassed on our territory.
KEILAR: Stephen, I'm just asking. I wanted to get your position on some things. This -- we're not taking a position here. We wanted to get some answers to some questions. There are so many questions that need to be answered.
MILLER: It doesn't sound to me --
KEILAR: And, Stephen Miller, --
MILLER: -- like you are, in fact --
KEILAR: -- thank you.
MILLER: -- indifferent or unbiased on these questions.
But thank you.
KEILAR: Stephen Miller, thank you so much for your time. Really appreciate it.
And we'll be right back.
[14:49:18]
MILLER: Thank you.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
KEILAR: The U.S. Army is being accused of failing American soldiers in really the most basic way by not using money designated to feed them their actual food.
Military.com just did a big expose that reports the Army repurposed $151 million of soldiers; own money, funds that we're automatically deducted from their paychecks, were supposed to cover their food costs in the barracks and military installations.
But military.com found that a huge percentage of those payments are not being spent on feeding soldiers after going through the financial records of the Army's 11 largest bases.
Joining me now is the military.com reporter who broke this story, Steve Beynon.
Steve, this story, I mean, it is wild. So if the money is not going toward food, where is it going? STEVE BEYNON, REPORTER, MILITARY.COM: That's the big question. The
Army didn't really have much of an answer for.
This is a story we worked on for months gathering financial data from its largest installations. And that was our big question is, if they're not spending this money on food, as is required by Pentagon rules, where is it going? And that's something they frankly didn't have an answer for.
KEILAR: So, and just to explain to people, right, this is money that -- this is part of the earnings of a soldier. And then it is deducted because they are supposed to, in a way, get back a service.
So how much money are we talking about?
BEYNON: So soldiers that live in the barracks, these are usually younger soldiers, 20, 21 years old, for -- about 460 bucks is put into their paychecks every month. And then most of that is taken back out.
[14:55:10]
Soldiers that don't live in these barracks, that have families, get to keep (INAUDIBLE) uually spent on food. But those younger soldiers in those barracks have much of that money taken out to pay for food in the dining facilities.
These are effectively -- they're almost like school cafeterias for soldiers to eat at.
KEILAR: OK. And so your story shows this image of a plate of -- it's toast, it's lima beans the soldiers were actually fed at one point.
And you outlined in the story just how bases have been struggling to feed their soldiers properly in recent years. So it's not a matter of like, oh, the money.
Actually, they had plenty to feed the soldiers, and there was a lot left over?
BEYNON: Right. I mean, we've heard complaints from soldiers for years about food that's undercooked, frankly, very low quality or in some cases outright unavailable.
Of this, this is an issue that other services don't seem to struggle as much with. And this seems to be, frankly, an accounting issue that has been going on for -- for years in the Army. They're frankly seemingly leaving money on the table.
And they point to soldiers not going to these dining facilities, where soldiers have said over the years that we're not going because the food is not good, or these shelves, frankly, are stocked or we don't have options to eat at.
So it's almost like a self-fulfilling prophecy on -- on the Army's part.
KEILAR: And just real quick, what's the Army saying about this?
BEYNON: They're pointing to the headcount. They're saying soldiers don't go to these dining facilities, therefore, they're not investing money that they collected from them for food for those dining facilities.
But that obviously leaves us with that immediate follow up of, why are you still collecting this money if you don't need it all? Are you talking to Congress saying, we don't need all this money to soldiers anymore?
And why aren't you investing in higher quality food or better options? And then maybe the soldiers would go to those dining facilities.
KEILAR: Yes. Who wants toast and lima beans? Not many people.
BEYNON: Right.
KEILAR: Steve, thank you so much. The reporting is great and thanks for sharing it with us.
BEYNON: Thank you for having me.
KEILAR: Ahead, new CNN reporting on a covert CIA operation. Why the agency is flying spy drones over Mexico.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
