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HHS Layoffs Underway as Department Aims to Cut 10,000 Jobs; GOP Senator to Fired Worker: You Probably Deserved It; Trump to Unveil New Tariff Plan; Farmers: Trump Tariffs Will Push Us to Increase Prices. Aired 3:30-4p ET

Aired April 02, 2025 - 15:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[15:30:00]

KAYLA TAUSCHE, CNN SENIOR WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: This type of structure is one that potentially could get President Xi on board, and we've heard that President Trump himself wants a grand bargain of sorts, perhaps proposing to roll back some of the tariffs on China if they agree to this deal and keeping some of those tariffs that he'll announce today as more or less a bargaining chip.

SANCHEZ: Yes, it could all be tied together, potentially, we'll see.

TAUSCHE: It could all be tied together.

SANCHEZ: Kayla Tausche, thank you so much for the reporting.

Still to come, widespread job cuts across the Department of Health and Human Services. We're going to be joined by one worker who was laid off, who was told you probably deserved it after confronting a Republican senator.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[15:35:10]

KEILAR: A huge wave of job cuts is now underway across several U.S. health agencies. An FDA employee calling it a bloodbath. Once it is all said and done, some 10,000 full-time employees are expected to be laid off.

Some terminated federal workers have been holding protests inside the Capitol.

SANCHEZ: And during one of those demonstrations this week, one fired probationary employee approached Republican Senator Jim Banks about the cutbacks. We want to play part of their exchange for you.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

MACK SCHROEDER, FIRED HHS EMPLOYEE: Hi, I was a worker at HHS. I was fired illegally on February 14th. There are many people who are not getting social service programs, especially people with disabilities.

Are you going to do anything to stop what's happening? SEN. JIM BANKS (R-IN): You probably deserved it.

SCHROEDER: I deserved it.

BANKS: You probably deserved it.

SCHROEDER: I deserved it. Wow!

Yes, that's great to hear. Why did I deserve it?

BANKS: Because you seem like a clown.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

SANCHEZ: Senator Banks released this statement to CNN about that moment.

Quote: I have no sympathy for left-wing activists who have been let go from overpaid positions that should never have existed. I do have sympathy for the hardworking Hoosiers whose tax dollars have been wasted on bankrolling these positions.

Let's talk with Mack Schroeder now. He's the former federal worker who took that video and had the exchange with Senator Banks. Max, thanks so much for being with us. I wonder what you make of that encounter. Were you doing anything clownish?

SCHROEDER: Not that it seemed like. I was really just there to not even talk about getting my job back or being reinstated. I really just wanted to ask him what he was doing to ensure the residents in his state are getting the services that they're entitled to, as we cut workers who are really ensuring that grants are going out the door to programs, in my case, working on programs that support people with disabilities and older adults.

So I was hoping he would have, you know, some sort of plan to say this is why we're cutting workers. This is how we're going to continue supporting residents in Indiana. But he just responded, as you saw.

KEILAR: Tell us more about the people who are being affected by the cuts, whether it's to funding or it's to jobs of folks who are supporting the services that they get.

SCHROEDER: So I was working at HHS for the Assistant Secretary for Financial Resources, and I was primarily supporting the Administration for Community Living, which does a lot of programs that help people with disabilities and older adults, like I said. So right now, several ACL employees have been let go, and a lot of them are folks that were working on making sure the grants were going to the right places. And these are programs like Meals on Wheels that give seniors sometimes their only meal for the day in their homes.

They were programs that supported independent living for people with disabilities. Another program within HHS that provided heating services has been totally wiped out through its staff. All the staff were fired today, and there are over 150,000 people in Indiana that rely on that program.

So my question to the Senator is, how are those folks going to get heating in the winter if there's no money or there are no people who are making sure those grants are going to that program?

SANCHEZ: Was he the only lawmaker that you approached? Were you able to have any substantive conversations with folks on Capitol Hill?

SCHROEDER: We did. We actually approached Senator Lankford. He was actually quite receptive.

So we've had productive conversations with senators on both sides of the aisle. Sometimes senators aren't willing to speak with us, but that was the first time I had an interaction that was of that nature.

KEILAR: Senator Lankford, Republican from Oklahoma. Senator, we should note. So were you surprised by Senator Banks's reaction? I mean, what did you think?

SCHROEDER: I was. First of all, I didn't ask him, what is he doing to help me get reinstated in my position? I wasn't asking, why did I get fired? What are you going to do to make sure me and other employees get their jobs? I was just asking, what are you doing about the social services that are being cut specifically for people with disabilities? And his response was just that I deserve to get fired.

So I think -- he didn't even answer my question. It wasn't really about that. And I still have not heard a response about what the plan is, as many of these staff get cut and the programs are potentially defunded.

SANCHEZ: Mack, I wonder what you make of his follow-up statement implying that you were in an overpaid position that should never have existed.

SCHROEDER: Well, my first question would be, does he even know about the work I was doing? Can he tell me that I was overpaid? Does he know the nature of the services that we were providing?

And secondly, I think in response to the piece about left-wing activism, as a federal employee, much like all of other civil servants, I am nonpartisan.

[15:40:00]

You know, there were people, Democrats and Republicans, working in the federal government that were just there to serve the country. So in this case, you know, I would like to know if he actually knows what I was doing. And without people like me and similar folks who are working on budgets for those programs, how is he going to get those services to constituents who desperately need them?

KEILAR: What's your pitch to -- you're here now? You don't even have to track him down in the hallways. So what is your pitch to senators who want to think about that? SCHROEDER: So my pitch is just to really stand up and understand what's affecting Americans that they're hoping to serve. If there's a good plan to increase efficiency by cutting workers, I haven't seen it yet. So I just really want to see more senators from both sides of the aisle really taking a stand to protect the services that people are paying taxpayer dollars for.

And if you're a fired federal worker, I encourage you to join us on The Hill, call your senators, share your story, and really make sure people know what's happening.

SANCHEZ: Mack Schroeder, thanks so much for joining us. Appreciate your time.

SCHROEDER: Thanks so much.

SANCHEZ: Still to come, we're just minutes away from President Trump's rollout of sweeping new tariffs. We're tracking the latest ahead of a major announcement and how it could impact American farmers.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

SANCHEZ: This just into CNN. The Army is now identifying the four soldiers who died last week during a training mission in Lithuania.

Staff Sergeant Troy Knutson-Collins was 28-years-old.

KEILAR: Private First Class Dante Taitano was 21 years old. Staff Sergeants Jose Duenez, Jr. and Edvin Franco were 25-years-old. Authorities say their M-88 Hercules was found submerged in a bog. They were all based out of Fort Stewart, Georgia.

Here in moments, President Trump will be unveiling a new sweeping round of tariffs. And farmers are bracing for what is ahead.

They've been hit on multiple fronts. The shutdown of USAID hurt farmers who grow crops sold as foreign aid. USDA pulled funding that paid them to help supply food banks.

And on top of that, a short time ago, growers in North Carolina spoke about how they're still recovering from the devastation of Hurricane Helene last year. They say more tariffs would be another major burden.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

WENDY BRUGH, CO-OWNER, DRY RIDGE FARM: This year in particular, these tariffs are impacting farmers in our region at our time of greatest need. In Western North Carolina alone, Helene caused over two and a half billion dollars of crop losses. These tariffs are pouring salt in a wound that is just now beginning to heal.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

KEILAR: Joining us now is Bob Kuylen, a farmer who's also the vice president of the North Dakota Farmers Union. Bob, thank you so much for being with us. And first off, tell us how much the Trump tariffs in 2019 cost you.

BOB KUYLEN, FARMER AND VP OF NORTH DAKOTA FARMERS UNION: We're still reeling from that. Our wheat back then was around $7.70, and it went all the way down into the $2 and $3 range for quite a while. And so we were finally getting some customers back.

And up in that $5.70 range when he started talking about this now. And since February, corn's down 60 cents. Wheat's down 90 cents. Soybeans are down 50 cents. It's just the talk of it we've lost billions of dollars in this country.

KEILAR: And in your case, as I understand it, hundreds of thousands of dollars, which is a lot. What are you bracing for now?

KUYLEN: We don't know what to brace for. We're getting hit from all sides. He's picking on our best customers.

Mexico imports 60 percent of our wheat that we export. They're a huge customer. They're 50 percent between China and Mexico, 50 percent of the corn we export. They buy 50 percent of the soybeans that get exported out of the country. China buys.

These just aren't tiny customers he's picking on. These are major, major implements in us making a living. And it's just getting harder and harder. Plus our inputs, we get potash from Canada. We import 97 percent of the potash used in our fertilizer from other countries. And I think 90 percent of that comes from Canada. So that's going to have a big deal.

Steel and aluminum, I mean, all of our equipment's made out of steel. If you went to Canada right now and bought a brand new planter for close to a million dollars, it would cost you another $250,000 to get it down here with what the tariffs are now.

KEILAR: Yes, you're getting hit coming and going in all the different ways here. So there is some new reporting that the Trump administration is now considering aid to farmers. So this would be an assistance package.

Trump, we should note, did this back in 2018. It's what so many farmers needed to get by. How would that help? How quickly would farmers need that to help?

KUYLEN: Well, we're right at putting our crops in now. And everyone's kind of hanging on to a lot of their grain and everything, hoping that the prices would come up.

[15:50:03]

And now we've been cut off at our knees again with our crop prices going down. And no one likes to sell in a down market. But they're going to be forced to do that to put their crop in this year.

So there's a program out now called ECAP that's came out from the USDA because our prices are so low compared to our cost of production. We just -- there was payments going out right now from the USDA to farmers because they know that we don't have any markets and our markets are struggling.

So it's -- we're going to -- we're getting that right now and people are going to need it. The scary thing, Brianna, is average age of the farmer is 60 years old in this country. In 10 years, we're going to be in deep trouble with our food system because young people can't afford to get into farming because all of us old guys at 60 have everything just about paid off and we're not making any money.

So how could you start farming and have to borrow all your inputs and everything and try making it? It's impossible. So we're going to have to take a huge look at what's coming up in our future with agriculture.

KEILAR: Yes, and I mean, you, just to put into perspective how tough this business is, you told our affiliate last month that farm closures are up 55 percent. I'm assuming these are not the, you know, big corporate farmers. Like what kind of farmers are we talking about getting out of the business because of how tough it is?

KUYLEN: You're talking guys probably in that one to 2,000, 3,000 acres farming a year. If you make a mistake or if mother nature comes, we got a major drought up here right now. And we don't even know if there's enough moisture in the ground for our seeds to come up right now.

And then we're getting hit, you know, from another direction. We have no problems with mother nature and yet to have that much fun with the government cutting us off too. So everyone uses food for a weapon all the time. It should be used to take care of our country.

KEILAR: Bob, thank you so much for speaking with us. It's very important to get the perspective of what is happening there on the ground. And we appreciate your being with us. Bob Kuylen, thank you.

KUYLEN: Thank you.

KEILAR: That's really the reality for so many farmers. And you know, they'll tell it to you straight because they're getting nickeled and dimed and they can tell you down to the cents what the impact is.

SANCHEZ: 100 percent and the fascinating thing about this discussion, specifically how these tariffs might impact farmers is that during the first Trump administration, billions of dollars on bailouts were spent on farmers, just like Bob. And in previous conversations with him, he's revealed that he wasn't even able to make ends meet when he was getting those bailouts. So what does this mean for the future?

It's an open question and one that could be answered in just moments.

KEILAR: Yes, the president's announcement on tariffs just moments from now in "THE ARENA" with Kasie Hunt starts after a short break.

[15:55:00]

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

KASIE HUNT, CNN HOST: Breaking news right now on CNN. Let's head into "THE ARENA."

Right now, the stage is literally set for a major announcement from President Trump set to unveil sweeping new tariffs, expanding his trade war with some of America's closest allies, the White House maintaining this is an effort to target unfair trade practices.

But this hour, investors are on edge. Your money hangs in the balance. How Wall Street is preparing for the president's plan and how it will impact you.

ANNOUNCER: This is CNN breaking news.

HUNT: I'm Kasie Hunt. Hi, everyone. Welcome to THE ARENA. It's nice to have you with us on this Wednesday.

As we come on the air, all eyes are on the White House. Any moment we expect President Trump to roll out a large scale policy on tariffs that has the potential to upend the global economy.

And even as we are literally minutes away from this announcement, what the president will and won't say has not yet come into focus. Sources telling CNN he's been huddling with advisers to finalize the details really up to the last few minutes. The closing bell on Wall Street is now just seconds away.

Volatility has been gripping stocks for the past few weeks ahead of this announcement. Today, stocks, at least on the Dow, appear to be eking out the day in positive territory, mostly hoping that whatever the president says will not be the worst case scenario.

Our panel is here in THE ARENA. But let's, of course, start with CNN's Kaitlan Collins, who is live for us in the Rose Garden awaiting this announcement. Kaitlan, there is, of course, so much uncertainty. What do we know, if anything, about what to expect today?

KAITLAN COLLINS, CNN ANCHOR AND CHIEF WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: Yes, Kasie, you just mentioned that closing bell. It's notable that this event and this announcement is happening after that happens. We're standing here in the Rose Garden.

President Trump is not out here yet, but many members of his Cabinet and top members of Congress are here, including the House Speaker Mike Johnson and others. I've seen a lot of the trade officials, including Peter Navarro, the U.S. Trade Representative Jamieson Greer as well, all out here waiting for this announcement from President Trump, something that they have been deliberating over for weeks and months, but also in recent days, deciding what exactly they are going to announce here. And the details are still unknown.

Of course, we are waiting for President Trump himself to make this declaration as they've been going back and forth over what the full extent of this is going to look like, because the White House argument is that they are rebalancing a global economy that they believe is unfair to the United States ...