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Jessica Dean Interviews Pennsylvania Governor Josh Shapiro; Hezbollah Attacks Israel With Drones; Prime Minister Netanyahu Urges U.N. Peacekeepers To Evacuate Lebanon; Harris And Trump Campaign In Swing States; Jessica Dean Discusses With Guests the State Of The Presidential Race; Jessica Dean Interviews Rep. Josh Gottheimer; Jeff Zeleny Reports On Arizona Voters. Aired 5-6p ET

Aired October 13, 2024 - 17:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[17:00:00]

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

JESSICA DEAN, CNN HOST: You're in the "CNN Newsroom." I'm Jessica Dean in New York. We are 23 days from Election Day in America and as both candidates sprint toward the finish, momentum appears to be building for Donald Trump among a key demographic, Hispanic voters. According to new polling, presidential support in this year's race is split 56 percent for Harris and 37 percent for Trump.

And while she still leads, that is the tightest margin of difference between Trump and his Democratic opponent in the last three presidential election cycles. And remember, this one going to be decided lightly on the margins, so that's where that matters.

Trump is in Arizona today where the New York Times-Siena poll also shows a narrow five-point lead for the former president in that state, while Harris is in North Carolina and is planning a stop in Pennsylvania tomorrow. Of course, two states that continue to be within the margin of error. From there, she'll be joined by running mate Tim Walz for a week-long campaign blitz across crucial blue wall states, including Wisconsin and Michigan.

Right now, CNN's poll of polls showing the race is deadlocked in those three key battleground states. Overall, CNN's latest polling shows no clear leader with 50 percent of likely voters supporting Harris and 47 percent for Trump.

Joining me now is the Democratic Governor of Pennsylvania Josh Shapiro. Governor, thanks so much for being here with us.

GOV. JOSH SHAPIRO (D-PA): Great to be with you, Jess. I know you are in Georgia right now. You're about to get on a bus tour of the Blue Wall states, including your own home state of Pennsylvania. I want to start with this new polling that continues to show an even tighter presidential race than what we were seeing even just a week ago.

There are some Democrats being very vocal, others speaking on background, but they're worried about Harris's momentum. They think the race is plateaued. They're concerned voters still don't see how she's different than President Biden. What do you think?

SHAPIRO: Well, look, Jessica, in Pennsylvania, the last two presidential races have come down to 44,000 votes and 80,000 votes, representing about a point or less. So it shouldn't shock anyone that the polls are within a point or so or even a dead heat. These are close races, but the stakes are incredibly high. The contrast is clear.

And I'll tell you what, I would much rather be us than them. I think we've got momentum. And look, I'm a sports guy. I would much rather have our team on the floor for the final two minutes of the game, standing with Kamala Harris and Tim Walz.

DEAN: I want to ask you about the Commonwealth of Pennsylvania because I just think so many eyes are on that state. We know that it's going to likely be make or break. You mentioned just how close the last two presidential elections were. You won in your race in 2022 with the most votes ever for a Pennsylvania statewide candidate. A lot of people look to you as a model for how to win that state.

Now you were running against a candidate that was pretty weak, but nonetheless you did quite, quite well, a record amount of votes. What does the Harris coalition look like? How does she ensure that she wins Pennsylvania?

SHAPIRO: Well just sort of things. One is I was running against an extreme candidate who was Donald Trump's offspring. And I would note that Donald Trump and his offspring have lost every race since 2016 in Pennsylvania, every statewide race, and by the way, even some races for school board and local races. So they don't have a particularly strong track record in Pennsylvania.

But it is true that their races for president tend to be a lot closer in our commonwealth. Kamala Harris just needs to keep doing exactly what she's doing, which is showing up in communities that are oftentimes ignored and left behind. Forgotten areas that, you know, in the past had maybe been flyover areas for national candidates. She's showing up. She's answering questions. She's looking folks in the eye and kind of letting people kick the tires.

You know, we're still -- we're a big state, but we're still a retail state. I think she's doing what she needs to do. I joked with her the other day when I saw her Pennsylvania. I think she had been in our Commonwealth, something like four and a half out of the seven days that week. She's returning weekly. Governor Walz has been in Pennsylvania quite a bit. So they're spending a lot of time, a lot of focus, a lot of energy on Pennsylvania. And I think they're showing up in the right areas.

[17:04:50]

DEAN: Yeah. And you know, it's interesting you mentioned that strategy of them going into a lot of red Pennsylvania, rural areas, maybe places Democrats haven't always gone because for a long time, the playback -- book for Democrats in Pennsylvania is just run up the score big time in the cities and just don't get clobbered in the places kind of in the middle of the state, more or less. Do you think that this is actually effective? Do you think that she can move the needle enough to make that marginal difference to win?

SHAPIRO: I do, and she is. And again, I'd rather be us than them. I don't think anybody should get freaked out by the fact that the polls are close. Of course they were going to be close. The election results the last couple of times have been really close. Again, a point or less. And so I think what folks need to do is not worry about what those polls show, but just keep working.

And what I'm seeing on the ground is real enthusiasm for Kamala Harris. Folks not only pledging to vote for her, or maybe even some have voted for her by mail already. But they're showing up at the local office and taking a shift and going out and knocking on doors in rural areas where maybe Democrats haven't performed as well in the past.

They're taking a lawn sign. They're putting it on their lawn. They're hanging it on their barns and they're really giving a permission slip to their friends and their neighbors. That's big and that momentum, that energy is something that's worth a little bit at the end here. And that's why, as I said before, I'd much rather be us than them.

DEAN: And we've seen Republicans cutting in to Democrat's advantage of registered voters in Pennsylvania over the last few years. So Republicans have increased their registered voters by a point, but Democrats have seen a decrease by four points since 2020. As we keep saying, in a state that's likely gonna be one on the margins, this would appear as a worrisome data point for Democrats, is it?

SHAPIRO: Again, the data is close, but let's look at the real time outcomes, right? In the race for governor, in the race for U.S. Senate, in the race for president in 2020, every time since 2016, Donald Trump or one of his political offspring have been on the ballot, they've lost because what Pennsylvanians have done is reject extremism.

They rejected extremism in the race for governor, in the race for U.S. Senate, and in the race when Donald Trump was running for reelection. Pennsylvanians don't value extremism. What Pennsylvanians value are common sense politicians who are willing to work with people on both sides of the aisle to get stuff done. And that in this race is Kamala Harris.

DEAN: I want to ask you about the issue of reproductive rights and abortion. And in 2022, it was a very potent issue across the country, certainly in Pennsylvania. I interviewed women in Bucks County, of course, for people watching that haven't been there, at key collar county where Democrats have seen a lot of pickup from maybe Republicans who developed a distaste for Trump.

And those women, Governor, were saying they were going to vote on that issue alone. Now, that was two years ago. Do you think that that issue remains such a potent driver in this election two years on? SHAPIRO: I do think rights and freedoms are on the ballot, and I think it's very much on people's minds along with other issues, including the economy, certainly. Rights and freedoms are on the line, and Donald Trump has a proven track record of ripping away people's rights and freedoms and a blueprint in this Project 2025 for how to limit people's freedoms even more going forward.

Look, Jessica, Laura and I are blessed with four children. Our oldest is our daughter. Our daughter, Sophia, was born into this world with more rights than she has today simply because Donald Trump was president of the United States. He bragged about how he ripped away the freedom for women to just simply be able to make decisions over their own bodies, to start a family on their own timeline and their own terms, to have a full range of medical care across this country.

That is something that people have rejected time and time again in elections. We've seen that in Pennsylvania. And I believe it will continue to be a motivating issue, and people will reject the candidate, in this case Donald Trump, who wants to further restrict and limit our freedoms.

DEAN: We have seen Elon Musk become quite the Trump surrogate. He has become hyper-focused on Pennsylvania, telling Pennsylvanians at the Butler rally that Harrison-Walz will take away guns, take away their right to free speech, things that they have not shown that they want to do. But why do you think that message is resonating with so many Pennsylvania voters? And how do you push back against that if you're Harris and your role is a surrogate for her?

SHAPIRO: Well, look, I think if you look at the people lining up to be surrogates for Kamala Harris, it's far more plentiful, far more numbers out there to support Kamala Harris. You've got Democrats, business leaders, military leaders, former Republicans who are able to fill rooms, even if Kamala Harris is not there in Pennsylvania, to let people know what is at stake and why they should rally around Kamala Harris.

[17:10:00]

So, look, I'll take our surrogate game against the other side seven days a week and twice on Sunday. I think it is critically important we continue to bring more people into the fold, to reach across the aisle and bring more people into the conversation. And that's what the surrogates for Harrison-Walz are doing.

DEAN: But respectfully, Governor, this is somebody that has seemingly endless resources. He wants to pour a lot of them into Pennsylvania. Do you think that's something that can be effective?

SHAPIRO: He certainly has endless resources, but understand Kamala Harris is outraced Donald Trump. She has plenty of resources to be able to communicate her message. I'm not trying to downplay the reach and the power that Elon Musk has by any stretch. I'm just trying to make the point that there are a whole lot of folks on the side of Harris and Walz who have the ability to go out and bring different people into the conversation and be out there stumping for her when she's not able to be there.

It's one of the reasons why Gretchen Whitmer, Tony Evers and I are doing this blue wall bus tour over the course of the next week or so between Wisconsin, Michigan and Pennsylvania, the three governors of those states, making sure, making clear to our respective constituents just how critically important this election is and why we need a partner in Kamala Harris in the White House so we can continue to make the progress we're making in our respective states.

DEAN: I want to take us to election night. I don't probably have to remind anyone that back in 2020, it took a while for Pennsylvania to count all of its votes. And if again, it may take some time again to get that all done, a couple of questions within this. Just how long do you think it will take to know those results? And secondly, the longer that goes on, the risk for a disinformation campaign for outright lies for conspiracy theories to be spread really gross. Are you prepared as the state's governor to help combat that, as these people, as these public servants try to count ballots?

SHAPIRO: We are. Let's be clear. The only person spreading mis and disinformation is Donald Trump and the folks he tells that mis and disinformation to spread it, his sidekick, J.D. Vance and others along with him. That is incredibly dangerous for our democracy. And it's really disrespectful to the Democratic, Republican and Independent clerks of elections in our 67 counties who are doing this hard work on behalf of their neighbors to fairly and accurately count the vote.

Listen, in 2020, we had a free and fair, safe and secure election. Donald Trump and his allies took me to court. I was the attorney general back then, 43 different times to either try and stop certain people from voting and then to try and stop certain votes from being counted. He went 0 and 43. I went 43 and 0. And the will of the people was protected and respected in Pennsylvania.

If Donald Trump wants to again spread mis and disinformation, we will meet that. We will share the truth of what is going on, and we will push back against his dangerous rhetoric, and we will push back against him in court, if need be, again. I think in terms of the count, it is important to note that Republican and Democratic clerks of election all across Pennsylvania asked lawmakers in Pennsylvania to allow them to do something many other states do, states led by Republicans and Democrats, called pre-canvass, which is effectively to process the mail-in ballots ahead of time so that on election night you're able to spit out the results quickly.

And by the way, Republican and Democratic lawmakers were for that until Donald Trump told Republicans to be against it. Why did he do that? He did that because he wants to create chaos in our system. Now, we were able to make some changes since 2020, which requires our 67 counties, once they begin counting the morning of Election Day, to keep counting, that they can't stop counting. And so that should speed up the process.

But unfortunately, we're not gonna get the process done as quickly as we'd like, because Donald Trump stuck his neck out and told Republicans, do not support something that had broad bipartisan support, simply because he wants more chaos in our system. Remember, he's not looking out for everybody else, he's only looking out for himself.

DEAN: All right, Pennsylvania Governor Josh Shapiro, thank you so much for your time today.

SHAPIRO: Great to be with you, Jessica. Thank you.

DEAN: Still ahead, breaking news from Israel, where officials say more than 60 people were injured in a drone swarm attack. A strike Hezbollah is claiming responsibility for tonight. We are live from Israel, but what we know that's next in the "CNN Newsroom."

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DEAN: We have breaking news in the Middle East tonight where dozens of people have been injured by an attack by a swarm of drones in north central Israel. That attack happening just south of Haifa. Hezbollah has claimed responsibility for it and CNN's Nic Robertson is in Tel Aviv joining us now live. Nick, tell us more what you're learning about this.

NIC ROBERTSON, CNN INTERNATIONAL DIPLOMATIC EDITOR: Yeah, the attack happened in a town called Binyamina, about 30 miles north of Tel Aviv. It came in the early evening.

[17:20:01]

The impact of the drone causing multiple casualties, a very difficult scene, is how one of the medical emergency responders described the situation. Sixty-one people injured. They say three of them critically, 18 moderately, 31 less severely injured, and nine, those nine others they say suffering from anxiety. And they were medevac, some of them in ambulances, some taken in helicopters to eight different hospitals across the center of Israel.

This appears to be the bloodiest strike on Israelis inside of Israel, far from the front lines, 40 miles from the border with Lebanon since October 7th last year. And Hezbollah said that they targeted an IDF base, the Golani training base, they say. Social media video at the site appears to indicate that troops were among the casualties there. The IDF has yet to comment on whether or not one of their bases was hit. This is something that they don't typically do quickly because they want to make sure that families of soldiers, if soldiers are seriously wounded, have been informed.

But this does seem to indicate that Hezbollah has been able to do what they've been threatening to do for a number of days now, which is get one of their drones deep enough into Israel to strike behind the lines at what they have called clusters or collections of soldiers. Now the IDF said that they saw two drones coming across the border from Israel just shortly before this strike, that they intercepted one of those drones but the other one they didn't see, didn't pick up on their systems until it actually impacted. DEAN: All right, Nic Robertson with the latest there in Tel Aviv.

Thank you so much for that reporting, Nic. I want to bring in Ben Wedeman who is live in Beirut tonight. And Ben, we know Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu is telling U.N. peacekeepers to get out of the combat zone in Lebanon for their safety. Tonight, the U.N. is accusing Israel of breaking international law for breaching one of the peacekeepers positions. Walk us through what happened and what you're learning.

BEN WEDEMAN, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Yes, Jessica, according to a statement put out by UNIFIL, the United Nations Interim Force for Lebanon, at 4:30 in the morning, two Israeli Merkava tanks destroyed the main gate of one of their bases in the central sector of the border region inside Lebanon. The tanks went inside the base and it was only after the U.N. lodged an official protest that the tanks leave.

And then just two hours and 10 minutes later, the same position was -- there was firing of some sort of smoke projectile in the direction of the same base causing 15 of the U.N. peacekeepers to have to receive medical treatment on the scene. Now the U.N. put out a statement calling this a shocking violation and a violation of international law for a peacekeeping, U.N. peacekeeping operation that operates under a U.N. Security Council mandate.

Now, Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu came out later saying he regretted any harm that might have happened to U.N. peacekeepers. Of course I should mention that over the last few days five U.N. peacekeepers have been injured by Israeli fire. The Prime Minister went on to say that that Hezbollah is hiding behind these U.N. positions and that the UNIFIL force should leave the combat zone. However, afterwards, a spokesman for the U.N. Secretary-General said that the U.N. peacekeepers will remain in their positions. Jessica?

DEAN: All right, Ben Wedeman and Nic Robertson our thanks to both of you. Coming up, swing state rallies for former President Trump and Vice President Harris. Our panel joins us to break it all down. You're in the "CNN Newsroom."

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DEAN: Vice President Kamala Harris is in North Carolina where she spoke at a rally just a few moments ago. She took some swipes at former President Donald Trump.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

KAMALA HARRIS, DEMOCRATIC PRESIDENTIAL NOMINEE: I do believe Donald Trump is an unserious man. But the effects of him being back in the White House would be brutally serious. Just imagine Donald Trump with no guardrails. He who has vowed if re-elected he would be a dictator on day one.

(END VIDEO CLIP) DEAN: Meanwhile, Trump is in Arizona, where he has once again been very focused on the border and immigration.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DONALD TRUMP, REPUBLICAN PRESIDENTIAL NOMINEE: For four straight years, she's imported an army of illegal alien, gang members, and migrant criminals from the dungeons all over the world, not South America. All over the world they come. From prisons and jails, inane asylums, mental institutions, from Venezuela, from the Congo. All over. and she's resettled them into your communities to prey upon innocent American people.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

DEAN: Again, a lot of falsehoods in what he was saying there. But joining us now is Democratic strategist and former Clinton White House aide Keith Boykin and Republican strategist Joseph Pinion. Great to have both of you here with us. Keith, I want to start first with you.

[17:30:00]

We hear the former president there directly tying his anti-immigrant rhetoric and immigration and the border to Kamala Harris. There is data and new polling today that voters still feel like they need to know her better, that she hasn't fully been able to separate herself from the Biden administration, from President Biden. Do you think there's still time for her to do that or do you think what Trump is doing, tying her to the border, is working?

KEITH BOYKIN, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR, DEMOCRATIC STRATEGIST, FORMER CLINTON WHITE HOUSE AIDE, AUTHOR: Well, I think that Kamala Harris is doing a good job of getting out there, talking to real voters. She's in North Carolina today. She'll be in Pennsylvania, Wisconsin, Michigan this week. Her campaign is also going to be in the Nebraska district. They're going to be all across the country, in all the swing states, trying to make the case.

And I think she has the time to do this, quite honestly. You know, time is limited. We only have a couple of two and a half weeks left, I think, in the campaign. But the campaign that she's making is completely different from the campaign that the Donald Trump is waging.

He's waging a very negative racist campaign talking about Haitian immigrants eating dogs and cats and people from the Congo and Africa coming in and allegedly taking over and coming into your neighborhood. All these things are lies, just like the lies about the hurricane. He's spreading a campaign of fear. He wants people to be so afraid that they have no choice but to turn to him. But anybody who does the least bit of research can tell that he's not telling the truth.

DEAN: And Joseph, on the other side, we heard Vice President Harris, she was there in North Carolina. Now, to be fair, Trump is, as we're looking at right now, in the battleground state of Arizona, but he spent the last several days in very blue states when it comes to presidential elections and is planning to do more of that in the coming days. They are making the case. It's not where they are, it's the message. Do you think that's smart?

JOE PINION, REPUBLICAN STRATEGIST: Well, look, I do believe that where President Trump shows up, cameras are likely to follow, and being in places where there are larger media presence does tend to benefit him. I would just simply say this: We just listen to Kamala Harris say that President Trump vowed to be a dictator on day one. That is not a message of hope. I believe that there are many Americans who look at Kamala Harris and see a hopeful future.

But I think that there are also a great many Americans, as you look at that polling, who are concerned about the fact that she got on "The View" and said that she could not think of a single thing that she would do differently from Joe Biden. And so, it appears that she does want to have her political cake and eat it, too. She wants to be able to have the good things that came from Joe Biden without any of the baggage that comes from Joe Biden.

And I think if you look specifically at what most Americans are concerned about, the issues on the southern border, the chaos that has erupted on the global stage after Joe Biden took the oath of office and said they were going to be the return to normalcy administration, I think those are real concerns that Democrats, as much as they want to, point the finger at President Trump. Cannot be able to ignore as we get down to the stretch here on Election Day.

DEAN: But Joe, you can't think that Trump was giving a hopeful message either.

PINION: Well, look, I think the reality is that we're dealing in a pitched election. The things that are the issues that are working for Republicans, I think, are the issues that are on the minds of many Americans. It is the chaos that we have seen on the southern border. It has been the stammering of the economy, even if you believe the economy is getting better. It is the fact that we now have rockets being fired from Iran directly into Israel, Yemen on fire, the first war of expansion in Europe since World War II.

The fact that, yes, Democrats should be talking about President Trump's rhetoric on Haiti, I think it has been unhelpful, but many of the Haitians that have come to this country are a direct result of one of the largest intelligence failures in modern history, with the president of Haiti being assassinated on the watch of Joe Biden and Kamala Harris, with co-conspirators living in Tampa Bay, Florida and Miami, Florida. So, these are all things that have gone wrong on their watch.

And in my humble opinion, it would probably have been better for Democrats to say, many things have gone wrong, but we don't believe Donald Trump can do the job. Instead, I believe they're running a fundamentally dishonest campaign, and I think that is why you see the entire bump from post-convention and the bump that she received after the debate from President Trump effectively have vanished in the latest polls.

DEAN: Keith, I see you want to get in there. Go ahead.

BOYKIN: Because I just heard a lot of lies from Joseph. I'm surprised. I mean, you're blaming the Biden administration for things that didn't happen under the Biden administration, they weren't responsible for in the Biden administration. You're completely excusing what happened during the Trump administration. We lost 2.7 million jobs, he failed to handle the COVID crisis, and we had an economic crisis that the Biden-Harris administration had to dig us out of.

The reason why we had inflation, and by the way, inflation is now lower today than it was when Donald Trump was president, the reason why we had inflation is because Donald Trump was responsible for mismanaging the COVID crisis.

[17:35:03]

Donald Trump talks about crime. Crime is lower today than it was in the Trump administration. He talks about the border. Border crossings are lower today than when Donald Trump left office. All these different issues that Donald Trump is raising, he's trying to create this atmosphere of fear. But the record the Biden administration has to run is very positive. I mean, we have 16 million new jobs that have been created. We've expanded Obamacare for millions of new people. The student loan debt relief for millions of Americans. We have HBCUs that are being funded for record levels of $16 billion. We have inflation under control, finally, which happened under the previous administration. So, I think there's a lot of progress that has not been acknowledged.

PINION: I would simply say, I would not say that anything that you have said is dishonest. I don't appreciate the fact you're saying that to me. And I would simply say that much of what you said is true.

BOYKIN: Because-

PINION: But -- no, hold on. I let you speak. I didn't interrupt you, Keith. Right? Much of what I said -- much of what you said is true, but it lacks a whole lot of context, a tonnage of context. Yes, we lost two and a half million jobs as a result of COVID. The people were returning to work. That is not job growth. That is not recovery. That is just us going back to the status quo.

You're sitting here trying to pretend that we didn't actually have a colonial pipeline hack on Joe Biden's watch with basically 35% of the fuel being shut down to the eastern seaboard, that we didn't have effectively a JBS beef hack on Joe Biden's watch. All of this happening by Russian hackers and which we had no response. Close to 80% of all the ransomware attacks on the U.S. homeland are committed by Russian actors.

All of this happened on their watch, and you're somehow trying to pretend it didn't happen. I'm not saying that there are not reasons for people to vote for Kamala Harris.

BOYKIN: I don't know how we get off --

DEAN: Keith, I got to let you -- I'm going let you have the last word here because we got to go.

PINION: But you can't be sitting here trying to act as if everything that people say on the other side of the aisle is wrong. And I think it is a fundamental flaw Democrats have made, Keith, that you have said that everything Republicans bring up is wrong and, at some point, there are many Americans who are believing their own eyes and not the talking points coming out of the DNC.

DEAN: All right, hang tight. Keith, a quick last thought there.

BOYKIN: I just think that, you know, the American people are looking for answers. They're not -- they don't want a convicted felon who has 34 felony counts. They don't want somebody who has been impeached twice. They don't want somebody who paid hush money to a porn star. They want somebody who they can look up to and respect.

We tried the Trump administration approach for four years. When he was president, he didn't solve any of those problems that he said he was going to solve. He didn't build a wall and make Mexico pay for it. He didn't repeal and replace Obamacare like he said he was going to do. He didn't release his tax returns, even. Everything Donald Trump promised he was going to do, infrastructure week and on down, he lied about.

And the only issue I just want to make to finish this story with Joseph is this: When you say that we had all these crises that took place in the administration of Joe Biden and not acknowledge the crises take place under every administration, the question is how do you handle them?

PINION: They didn't have to --

BOYKIN: Donald Trump failed to handle the COVID crisis and told people to inject bleach.

DEAN: Okay, we got to go, guys, but thank you both. Keith Boykin and Joseph Pinion, I appreciate it. Thank you so much. We'll be right back.

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[17:40:00]

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DEAN: With just under three weeks until voters go to the polls for Election Day, early voting underway in other places, former President Donald Trump already seems to be paving the way for doubting the results, saying any issues on Election Day are due to some form of conspiracy.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DONALD TRUMP, FORMER PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES, PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: It's the enemy from within. All the scum that we have to deal with that hate our country, that's a bigger enemy than China and Russia.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

DEAN: He went on to say they are radical left lunatics and that it could be easily handled by the National Guard or, if really necessary, by the military. Joining me now is Democratic Representative Josh Gottheimer of New Jersey. He is one of the co-organizers of a bipartisan unity pledge of 32 lawmakers saying they're going to support the outcome once votes are counted and certified. Congressman, good to see you. Thanks for being here.

REP. JOSH GOTTHEIMER (D-NJ): Great to see you. Thanks for having me.

DEAN: Listen, we just heard the former president working once again to undermine confidence in this election and in this case saying that maybe the military could be used if there's problems from what he's calling the enemy from within. What's your response to that?

GOTTHEIMER: I mean, it's incredible, but after 2020 and what I lived through January 6, like many of us did, I was in the gallery in the House, I guess it shouldn't come as a shock. But I think, listen, there should be no question in our Constitution, the peaceful transfer of power.

Voting, the actual act of voting is not a partisan issue. It's key to our democracy and making sure that everyone participates. And laying question and doubt now into the next election that hasn't even happened yet is -- to say it's unpresidential is an understatement, but it's a complete affront to our Constitution and our democracy.

And so, you know, we saw him do this and he still hasn't agreed to the outcome of the 2020 election, but to lay down and have others right now laying doubt into the upcoming election is totally irresponsible and outrageous. And it's why a group of us in a bipartisan way came together around that unity commitment to say we're going to recognize the outcome of the election and, as importantly, ensure calm and civility.

DEAN: And I will say that 32 of you have come together bipartisan. There are over 400 members of Congress, though. Are you worried about this?

GOTTHEIMER: We'd hope that everyone would join on and we're circling it around to get others to. And a lot of my colleagues I know are signing on every week.

[17:45:00]

But the bottom line is I'm concerned when you have the former president and others, I think the speaker made comments who are not only refusing to recognize the outcome of the 2020 election that Joe Biden is the president, but laying doubt in 2024.

And I'm very concerned about, you know, ensuring, and this is something that many of us are focused on, ensuring that there is peace and calm after the election and during the election, because that is something we have to worry about. In the greatest country in the world, in our democracy, the process of voting, again, should not be some sort of partisan exercise, right? We're going to have differences on who you vote for, but the actual act of voting should not be partisan.

DEAN: And your colleague, Democratic Representative Jamie Raskin, has raised some concerns about the tactics that Trump and Republicans may employ. In an interview with Axios, he stated, Trump is doing whatever he can to try to interfere with the process, whether we're talking about manipulating electoral college counts in Nebraska or manipulating the vote count in Georgia.

He did say, Raskin did say, of course, he would honor a free and fair election. But does it concern you that even a Democratic colleague is also calling into question some of the tactics that the Republicans might be using in this election?

GOTTHEIMER: Well, listen, it's okay to say the extremists and their tactics and what they're deploying like they did on January 6th and leading up to January 6th, which when we were there to certify the election and questioning secretaries of state and trying to run other electoral slates.

And we passed bipartisan legislation, which is now law, the Electoral Reform Act, I did that with Susan Collins, which says now that the vice president is just ceremonial. There's only one slate of electors that's going to be accepted. There can't be the mass chaos that happened on January 6th will be prevented by some of these changes that we've made and are now law.

But I haven't spoken to Jamie directly about his comments, and he's a very smart guy, so I'm definitely going to talk to him. But I understand why people are already raising the flag like I am and saying, hey, what some of the extremists on the other side are doing now and the ground they're laying because they're concerned they may lose the election is outrageous and ones we need to get together and say it's completely and totally unacceptable.

DEAN: All right, Representative Josh Gottheimer, thanks so much for being here. We appreciate it.

GOTTHEIMER: Thanks for having me. Great to see you.

DEAN: Me, too. When we come back, as people in Arizona consider who to vote for, immigration and reproductive rights are front and center in that crucial battleground state. You're in the "CNN Newsroom."

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[17:50:00]

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DEAN: Today, Vice President Kamala Harris was campaigning in the key battleground state of North Carolina, speaking directly to Republican voters and warning about whether Trump can be trusted with the second term. It comes as Trump is in Arizona where immigration and abortion are top of mind. Jeff Zeleny has more from voters in Arizona.

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DONNA ROSS, ARIZONA VOTER SUPPORTING HARRIS: It was a right that we've had for 50 years. It's crazy to think that you can take it back right away. Who does that?

JEFF ZELENY, CNN CHIEF NATIONAL AFFAIRS CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Donna Ross is voting to protect abortion rights. Candy Purdue is, too.

CANDY PURDUE, ARIZONA VOTER SUPPORTING TRUMP: Everybody on that issue, I believe, has the right to decide what they want and what they can live with.

ZELENY (voice-over): Beyond that, their views diverge sharply here in battleground Arizona where Ross is supporting Kamala Harris.

ROSS: I'm very excited. She's so dynamic.

ZELENY (voice-over): And Purdue is backing Donald Trump.

PURDUE: You darn right I am.

ZELENY (voice-over): The scrambled politics of abortion are at the center of the first presidential race since the Supreme Court overturned Roe versus Wade. The fight has been an anthem of Harris's candidacy.

KAMALA HARRIS, VICE PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES, U.S. PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: So, Arizona, we need to fight this battle on every front. And in this election, you have the chance on the state level to vote yes on Proposition 139.

(APPLAUSE)

ZELENY (voice-over): Yet it's far from certain whether Proposition 139, a measure to enshrine abortion rights in the state Constitution, will give her a definite edge. Abortion and immigration are colliding in Arizona like few other battlegrounds, with both issues literally on the ballot.

Proposition 314 would make immigration violations a state crime. Virtually, no money has been spent on ads compared to abortion, which dominates the airwaves.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNKNOWN (voice-over): You can end Arizona's abortion ban by voting yes on Prop 139.

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UNKNOWN: It's something that resonates with independents, with Democrats, with Republicans.

ZELENY (voice-over): Laura Dent (ph) helped gather more than 800,000 signatures from Arizona voters to put abortion rights on the ballot. As volunteers go door to door three weeks before the election --

UNKNOWN: Next, we have over there.

ZELENY (voice-over): Mayra Rodriguez has deployed an RV to spread the word against the measure.

MAYRA RODRIGUEZ, ANTI-ABORTION ACTIVIST: Obviously, we don't come with the amount of money the other side does.

ZELENY (voice-over): A former clinic manager for Planned Parenthood, Rodriguez (ph) now warns women against abortion. She's voting for Trump, but with little enthusiasm.

RODRIGUEZ: I always tell people that Jesus is on the ballot. They will always have to choose always the lesser of two evils.

ZELENY: And the lesser of two evils is?

RODRIGUEZ: To me, it's Trump.

ZELENY (voice-over): Four years ago, Trump lost Arizona by 10,457 votes out of more than 3.3 million cast, one of his narrowest defeats. David Tapia sat on the sidelines in that election, but has no plans of doing so again. He's 42, born and raised in Arizona, and used his classic cars to entice others to register to vote.

Trump drove you to be more politically-aware.

DAVID TAPIA, ARIZONA VOTER SUPPORTING HARRIS: Hundred percent. Trump is a popular guy. So, whether you like it or not, you're going to open your phone and you're going to see politics.

ZELENY (voice-over): The more he saw the former president over the past four years, he said, the less he liked. He plans to vote for Harris.

[17:55:02]

TAPIA: Looking at both sides, I mean, I'll be honest, I'm not a supporter of Trump. I'm just not.

ZELENY (voice-over): He has been studying state races, too, including the abortion measure he plans to support.

TAPIA: My man, no one has ever told me what to do. And I believe that women have the right to make the decisions on their own bodies.

ZELENY (voice-over): Whether Tapia's views are widely held or the exception will help determine the outcome in Arizona.

(on camera): And Arizona's 11 electoral votes really are at the center of this race. Vice President Harris holding a rally there on Thursday night, spending Friday there as well. Former President Donald Trump holding a rally there on Sunday. They've been blanketing the state. There is no question now that both sides see this state as part of their strategies. Immigration and abortion are driving this race. There's no doubt about that. Every day is Election Day between now and November 5th.

Jeff Zeleny, CNN, Washington.

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DEAN: Jeff, thank you. I had in the next hour of "CNN Newsroom," Donald Trump and Kamala Harris both campaigning tonight in some of the must-win swing states.

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