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President-Elect Donald Trump Draws Controversy for Nominating FOX News Host Pete Hegseth as Secretary of Defense and Former Congressman Matt Gaetz as Attorney General; President Biden to Meet with Chinese President Xi Jinping; Trial Opens of Undocumented Immigrant Jose Ibarra for Murder of Nursing Student Laken Riley; Justice Department Releases Report on Inhumane Conditions in Atlanta's Fulton County Jail; California Citizens Vote in Favor of Tough on Crime Measures and District Attorneys in 2024 Election; Astrophysicist Neil deGrasse Tyson Interviewed about Government Hearings on UFOs and Rerelease of His First Book; Former Heavyweight Boxing Champion Mike Tyson Loses Match to Social Media Influencer Jake Paul. Aired 2-3p ET

Aired November 16, 2024 - 14:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[14:00:00]

CAROLYN MANNO, CNN SPORTS CORRESPONDENT: -- step-back three with under 90 seconds on the block to ice the game. The Cavs win 144-1226. And they become just the sixth team in NBA history to win their first 14 games. They are the first to do it since the 2015-2016 Golden State Warriors. This is not only the team's best start, it is also the Cavs longest win streak as well.

And just when you think LeBron James has done it all, Fred, over his 22 seasons in the NBA, the superstar finding a way to set a new milestone. On Friday night, the 39-year-old recording a fourth straight triple-double for the first time in his career. James tallying 15 points, 16 boards, and 12 assists against the Spurs in the Lakers first NBA Cup game of the season. And it is no coincidence that L.A. has also won the last four games that they have played with his effort. Afterwards, James credited hard work for how he continues to impress at this stage of his career. He says he puts the work in, he loves the game, and he's happy to still be able to make the plays that help his team win. He is doing that and then some. Fred?

FREDRICKA WHITFIELD, CNN ANCHOR: Yes, you better believe it. Always impressive. Carolyn Manno, thank you so much.

Hello again, everyone. Thank you so much for joining me. I'm Fredricka Whitfield.

All right, we begin this hour with President-Elect Donald Trump naming more loyalists to fill out his administration. He's tapping campaign staff members Steven Cheung, Karoline Leavitt, and Sergio Gor for key White House roles. He's also selected North Dakota Governor Doug Burgum as his interior secretary.

While Trump's cabinet is taking shape, some of his picks are already facing an uphill climb for Capitol Hill confirmation. Sources tell CNN Trump's transition team was caught off guard after hearing of an alleged sexual assault investigation from 2017 involving his Defense Secretary pick Pete Hegseth. Hegseth has not been charged or named as a defendant in any civil lawsuit, and his attorney is denying any wrongdoing. But since the revelation, we're learning several members of Trump's team have since raised questions about the viability of his nomination.

And the president-elect's pick for U.S. attorney general is also facing growing skepticism. Lawmakers in both parties are demanding to see the findings of a house ethics investigation of former congressman Matt Gaetz over allegations of sexual misconduct and illegal drug use.

CNN's Steve Contorno is joining us live with more of his reporting. So bring us up to speed on where things stand with Trump's transition.

STEVE CONTORNO, CNN REPORTER: Well, Fred, we're much further along in this process than we were eight years ago when Donald Trump was first elected president in 2016. By then, he was holding meetings at Trump Tower, and it was sort of this very public and chaotic audition. There was really no semblance of a normal or traditional transition there.

And that is certainly not the case this go around. He has been meeting very privately at Mar-a-Lago with his advisers. He has been rolling out names to fill in his cabinet at a relatively quick speed. He has filled many top roles, including individuals who will be overseeing some of his top priorities. For example, he has his immigration team already in place with Tom Homan as border czar and Kristi Noem as Homeland Security Secretary.

The question though, is whether or not some of these picks have the ability to get through a very narrow majority by Republicans in the Senate. You talked about Pete Hegseth and Matt Gaetz are certainly two of the names that we'll be closely watching to see if any sort of dissent emerges in the Republican party.

And then there is also the appointment of Robert F. Kennedy Jr. to lead the department of Health and Human Services. He has, obviously, a very controversial background. His stances on vaccines have gotten him into trouble often throughout the years, as well as other positions that he has taken. And there could be Democrats who oppose him and Republicans as well, because remember, up until just a few months ago he was a Democrat. He had spent his life on fighting progressive causes as an environmental activist, and that might not make some Republicans comfortable. In fact, we saw yesterday, former Vice President Mike Pence speaking out against RFK Jr.'s appointment because he would be leading health agencies as someone who was pro- choice throughout much of his career.

So those are the sort of headwinds facing some of these appointments as we get into these final weeks and these final decisions of his team.

WHITFIELD: And then, Steve, you also have new reporting on how conservatives are searching for partisans in the federal government before Trump takes over to make sure that employees are loyal to the president-elect?

[14:05:00]

CONTORNO: That's right, Fred. These groups have been anticipating this very moment for years now and have been spending time researching the thousands of employees throughout the federal government that they believe might not be able to uphold or carry out the mission and the priorities of Donald Trump.

Now, how have they been doing this? One way is they have been blanketing the U.S. government with FOIA requests, that is Freedom of Information Act requests, searching through the emails of federal employees, trying to find them taking partisan stances, using -- getting in debates about Elon Musk or arguing for climate change or DEI policies. Other people have been searching through public records like campaign finance reports or LinkedIn biographies to try to find evidence of partisans in the federal government.

It's interesting, in the Department of Transportation, for example, there have been 1,600 FOIA requests in the last year. More than 1,100 of them are coming from just the Heritage Foundation alone, that conservative group that is trying to help Donald Trump build this roadmap for finding partisans in his government. Fred?

WHITFIELD: That's quite fascinating. All right, Steve Contorno, thank you so much.

All right, joining me right now to talk more about these developments with Trump's transition, Juliegrace Brufke. She's a congressional reporter for "Axios," and the co-author of the "Axios Hill Leaders" newsletter. Juliegrace, great to see you.

JULIEGRACE BRUFKE, CO-AUTHOR, "AXIOS HILL LEADERS": Great to see you, too.

WHITFIELD: All right, so let's begin with the controversy over the selection of Matt Gaetz for U.S. attorney general. House Speaker Mike Johnson trying now to prevent the findings from that ethics probe on Gaetz from being released. So what's your sense of how this will play out? Will that document be subpoenaed potentially?

BRUFKE: Well, there's been a lot of debate on whether or not the Ethics Committee can release that report, and a lot of discussion on whether it will ultimately leak out there. We've heard from a lot of top senators that really would like to see those findings. And Mike Johnson has kind of argued that it would be unprecedented to put that out there since he has stepped down from his seat. So it's going to be kind of interesting how the two chambers reconcile. It's kind of an unprecedented situation right there.

But I'm sure senators are going to be seeking things from the DOJ investigation, and having covered Matt Gaetz for a long time, I know he's a fighter and probably going to be pushing -- pushing senators to kind of get behind him. And it will be interesting to see how much of a litmus test Trump makes his nomination for keeping his loyalty in senators' good graces.

WHITFIELD: But the confirmation process is probative. So there is going to be a seeking out of information. And I mean, does it seem as though the roadblocks are going to be able to withstand these kinds of inquiries?

BRUFKE: Well, it's going to be kind of interesting to see how that plays out. I think there are a lot of talks going on to see how they can obtain that information. And there are a lot of members of the House, members of the House that have kind of been pushing for this report to be released. And there have been some instances in the past where information from the Ethics Committee has been put out there. But it's kind of a big debate right now, and whether Mike Johnson will allow that to go forward kind of remains to be seen.

WHITFIELD: And then how do you think this new report on an investigation of alleged sexual assault in 2017 involving Pete Hegseth, Trump's defense secretary, just pick might impact his path going forward?

BRUFKE: I definitely think it's going to be a cause for concern for a number of senators, and something that will come up in confirmation hearings. And we've seen President Trump put forward a number of controversial picks, and these confirmation hearings will certainly be fascinating to play out, particularly with some of the more moderate senators on the Republican side there. And they're not ultimately primary -- primaries emerge for them, or there's consequences for not backing them up for Trumpier members, or potential lawmakers moving forward. So yes, I think it's definitely probably a problem for him getting over the finish line. But we'll see kind of how that plays out.

WHITFIELD: What's fascinating, too, is additional reporting that's in "The New York Times" on how Trump is hunkered down at Mar-a-Lago, you know, making his cabinet picks at breakneck speed. And that many of Trump's selections are made on whims and snap. And at least from the article, it says "The president-elect is picking people he considers true loyalists with little regard for whether they can pass Senate confirmation," that being lifted from "The New York Times."

So what are you gleaning from this? What are you learning about this process and how Trump is, I guess, settling in on those he's most comfortable with and how?

BRUFKE: That's definitely kind of different than what we saw in 2016, where we kind of saw more of a mix of different factions in the Republican Party of people that kind of emerged as his nominees. I mean, we saw that he shot down Nikki Haley and Mike Pompeo as being potential picks for his cabinet. And it definitely seems like his loyalists will ultimately be the people that he kind of moves forward with. And it's definitely -- I mean, we saw with Senate leadership races, recess confirmations were a big thing that he was looking for in getting behind a candidate.

[14:10:05]

So he's looking to move quickly. And we'll kind of see how that pans out ultimately on some of these picks getting confirmed.

WHITFIELD: All right, Juliegrace Brufke, great to see you. Thanks so much.

All right, the incoming Trump administration is also a hot topic at the Asia Pacific economic summit in Lima, Peru. In behind-the-scenes discussions, global leaders are said to be expressing their concerns over cabinet picks and what to expect from Trump tariffs. Meanwhile, President Joe Biden is preparing to sit down for a final official face to face meeting with China's President Xi Jinping.

Our Kayla Tausche is traveling in Lima with the U.S. president. Kayla, what are you hearing about what they might talk about?

KAYLA TAUSCHE, CNN SENIOR WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: Well, Fred, when that meeting takes place in just about two hours from now, the conversation is expected to take two tracks.

First, the track about the areas where China and the U.S. have been able to cooperate over the last four years, which includes areas on climate change and military level communication and efforts to curb illicit fentanyl trafficking.

But then there is the more contentious track, and that is the areas where China and the U.S. are in deep conflict. The president, President Biden, is expected to raise concerns about Chinas support of Russia and its war in Ukraine as well as the deployment of thousands of North Korean troops to Russia to train for potential deployment into Ukraine to assist Russia with its fighting there. The U.S. is also going to be raising concerns about some of Chinas cyber operations and cyber espionage, with senior U.S. officials expecting President Biden to take an extremely firm stance on that.

But, of course, the subtext of all of this is the fact that President Biden can't offer much in this meeting. U.S. officials acknowledge as much and say that this is really a meeting that's more meant to take stock and reflect on how the relationship has evolved over the last four years and what awaits the U.S. and China when the new administration here enters office in late January. We know that Chinese officials are trying to figure out exactly what President- elect Donald Trump will do when he takes office. He's already assembled a team of hardline China hawks where they are going to be very stern in issuing changes to the military footprint, potentially, around the world as well as economic penalties for China as it increasingly competes with the United States.

So all of that, of course, is the subtext here for this meeting, and we will see whether there are any areas of common ground, whether there's a joint statement or any optimism that emerges from it. But just the fact of this meeting is meant to send a signal to the world stage that these are two great powers that can work together. They can manage the competition and avoid spilling over into conflict. Fred?

WHITFIELD: All right, Kayla Tausche, thank you so much.

All right, still to come, an emotional first day in the trial of the man accused of murdering nursing student Laken Riley. The evidence that had people fleeing from the courtroom and how the victim's smartwatch gave investigators clues about her death. (COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[14:17:58]

WHITFIELD: Nine months after the killing of 22-year-old nursing student Laken Riley, the trial for the murder suspect Jose Antonio Ibarra, opened in Athens, Georgia. It is a case that ignited a political firestorm over immigration. The 26-year-old undocumented migrant from Venezuela faces multiple charges. He waived his right to a jury trial, meaning the court judge will be the one to decide his fate.

CNN's Rafael Romo was in the courtroom and explains how prosecutors described Ibarra as, quote, "hunting for females on the University of Georgia campus" before encountering Riley.

(BEGIN VIDEO TAPE)

RAFAEL ROMO, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): On the opening day of the trial of Jose Ibarra, prosecutors playing bodycam video too graphic to be shown beyond the courtroom of when 22-year-old Laken Riley was found. Sergeant Kenneth Maxwell with the University of Georgia Police Department performing CPR as emergency sirens wailed, observers in the court crying as a responding officer described the scene.

SGT. KENNETH MAXWELL, UNIVERSITY OF GEORGIA POLICE: It was more intentional that somebody had attempted to either remove her top or maybe had used it to drag her.

ROMO: Also entered into evidence, images of the crime scene, fingerprints found on Riley's phone, and pictures of injuries on the defendant that prosecutors say came from the attack. Police bodycam video shows the moment police found the blue jacket thrown in dumpster not far from the crime scene.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: There's hair on the buttons, ripped up sleaves.

ROMO: And ring video of a man police say is Ibarra wearing that jacket.

SHEILA ROSS, PROSECUTOR: Who is this person?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Jose Ibarra.

ROSS: And now what is he wearing?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: That is the blue jacket that we wound up finding in the B32 dumpster.

ROMO: Pieces of evidence that the prosecutor Sheila Ross told the judge in her opening statement would lead him to a verdict of guilty in the trial of Jose Ibarra, the undocumented migrant charged with murder and aggravated assault with intent to rape Riley in February.

[14:20:07] ROSS: He went hunting for females on the University of Georgia's campus.

ROMO: Prosecutors say Riley called 911 but never had a chance to ask for help as she fought for her life for nearly 18 minutes.

ROSS: She fought for her dignity. And in that fight, she caused this defendant to leave forensic evidence behind.

ROMO: In his opening statement, Ibarra's defense attorney called that evidence graphic and what happened to Riley tragic.

JOHN DONNELLY, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: The evidence that Jose Ibarra killed Laken Riley is circumstantial.

ROMO: And explained the defendants waving a jury trial, saying that if the judge made, quote, honest assessment of the evidence --

DONNELLY: There should not be enough evidence to convince you beyond a reasonable doubt that Mr. Ibarra is guilty of the crimes charged.

ROMO: Rafael Romo, CNN, Athens, Georgia.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

WHITFIELD: All right, joining me right now to discuss further, CNN legal analyst Joey Jackson. Joey, great to see you. So what are your thoughts on the opening statements in this case?

JOEY JACKSON, CNN LEGAL ANALYST: Yes, Fredricka, my thoughts are that there are very compelling bits of evidence which establish, at least up to now, a very strong case for the prosecution. Everyone, of course, deserves under our system the presumption of innocence. We know that. But we also know that although the defense suggests, and it's true, that there's circumstantial evidence, circumstantial evidence can be very powerful.

First, what is circumstantial evidence? Very few times and instances, Fredricka, are you going to have situations in crimes where there's an eyewitness who is right there, sees exactly what happens, knows exactly what happens, et cetera. However, in this case, the circumstances would suggest, and we see it there, right, DNA under the fingernails. Well, how did it get there, the DNA of the victim, if there was not some interaction? The thumbprint on the victim's phone that would match his, how does that get there? The jacket with the DNA on it that happened to be removed and placed in a dumpster, showing consciousness of guilt. We don't remove our jackets and putting them in dumpsters unless there's a significant reason for us to do so. The photos, et cetera.

And then, of course, you know, we're looking at these other things in terms of the 911 call. She goes out for the run, the stopwatch, which is the smartwatch, shows no more activity. So all of this pieced together and this long attack of 18 minutes, the suggestion that the smartwatch, Fredricka, shows the movement into the woods about 50 to 60 feet away from the actual trail. So my thoughts are that there's compelling evidence and a lot to overcome by the defense if they're to establish a not guilty verdict in this case.

WHITFIELD: Yes. And what's your view on the suspect, Jose Ibarra, choosing a bench trial over a jury trial? Why does he and his team feel that that was more advantageous? I mean, why else would you do it if you didn't feel it was advantageous.

JACKSON: Yes, correct. I mean, that is the thought process. So a bench trial, of course, is a trial where the judge makes the assessment as to the facts and as to the law. Generally speaking, if you have a jury trial, the jury determines factually what happened or what did not happen, and the judge is merely a referee. In this case, the judge has both hands.

Generally, defense attorneys do that because there are significant poisonous things that come into the trial that they want to avoid. Like what? Like you have publicity in a case that could damage and really cause taint with regard to a jury that's evaluating the case, pretrial publicity, et cetera. You also have the issue of emotion, a lot of emotional testimony. There's a young woman, a nursing student, who is dead. That lands upon people, and it lands upon them in a very compelling, impactful way.

A judge really has the ability to parse that out and evaluate the facts, the issues, the circumstances, and the law. But at the end of the day, whether there's a jury there or a judge there, there's evidence that needs to be overcome. And the evidence, at least to date, Fredricka, that I see is pretty compelling and damning.

WHITFIELD: All right, Joey Jackson, thanks so much for being with us this weekend.

JACKSON: Always. Thanks, Fredricka.

WHITFIELD: All right, and a shocking report this week found that Atlanta's Fulton County jail unconstitutionally subjects inmates to inhumane and violent conditions. The Justice Department began investigating after the 2022 death of Lashawn Thompson, who was found dead in his cell covered in lice and filth. CNN's senior national correspondent Ryan Young has details.

(BEGIN VIDEO TAPE)

RYAN YOUNG, CNN NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Fulton County officials have 48 days to rectify some of the issues at the jail or the Justice Department could move forward with putting more stringent restrictions on that jail facility. We know the county plans to spend $300 million trying to rectify some of these issues.

[14:25:01]

But let's take this into account. There have been over 314 stabbings. Theres been sexual assaults. Inmates have died. And what we also learn is as you look at the jail facility, there are metal parts that fall down off that jail all the time. And inmates turn those into weapons. Those weapons are used against other inmates and sometimes targeting staff. This has been a longstanding issue with the Fulton County jail. They know they need to make improvements. The $1.7 billion facility for a new jail, that's been denied. So this $300 million fix is going to be very important as that facility moves forward.

But take a listen to what the DOJ found during the 16-month investigation.

RYAN K. BUCHANAN, U.S. ATTORNEY FOR THE NORTHERN DISTRICT OF GEORGIA: Aside from the glaring risk of violence, detainees faced an insidious threat of unsafe living conditions, constant exposure to rodents and pests, and an unsettling disregard for food safety. Detainees in the Fulton County jail lack basic necessities, like working toilets and sinks, and are exposed to flooding, standing water, mold, and what could only be described as filth. Pests carrying bacteria and disease not only run rampant in food preparation areas, but have infested the bodies of the people in the jail.

YOUNG: And of course, officials are looking at this very closely. One of the cases that stood out was Lashawn Thompson. He died back in 2022, and when his body was found, he was covered in lice. This is a case that got a lot of spotlight and triggered some of these investigations at that jail. There have been times the A.C. has broken at that jail in the hot Atlanta heat, and it made conditions for those who were living inside just unbearable. We know the county plans to spend $300 million to try to rectify the situation on the inside. It's something the DOJ and this community will be paying attention to.

Ryan Young, CNN, Atlanta.

(END VIDEO TAPE)

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[14:31:20]

WHITFIELD: California is known for having some of the most progressive laws in the country, but voters shifted toward the right in last week's election. One of the issues they're most concerned with, crime and homelessness. Liberal D.A.s in Oakland and Los Angeles lost their reelection bids as San Francisco -- as did San Francisco Mayor London Breed.

Camila Bernal takes us inside California's right turn.

(BEGIN VIDEO TAPE)

CAMILA BERNAL, CNN NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: With it's dark interior and festive lights, friendly servers, traditional Mexican food, and of course, margaritas, many consider Casa Vega a Los Angeles institution.

CHRISTY VEGA, OWNER AND PRESIDENT, CASA VEGA: Our little immigrant family from Tijuana made such an impact on L.A. and it's my honor to continue this legacy, but to continue the legacy.

BERNAL: But to continue the legacy, owner Christy Vega says she's recently had to vocalize her political views.

VEGA: As a Democrat, lifelong Democrat, I 100 percent feel the Democratic Party turned their back on people like me.

BERNAL: Among her top concerns, crime and homelessness. You've seen it on viral videos, smash and grab stores being targeted, vandalism, and it's happened at the restaurant. It's why Christy decided to support California's Proposition 36. The get-tough-on-crime measure passed in blue California and will now increase penalties for repeated theft offenses and certain drug crimes.

VEGA: I voted for Kamala Harris. I voted for Adam Schiff. But I voted for yes on Prop 36 and on Nathan Hochman.

BERNAL: She's referring to the newly elected Los Angeles district attorney, a former Democrat turned Republican and now independent, who beat L.A.' more liberal D.A. George Gascon.

NATHAN HOCHMAN, LOS ANGELES COUNTY DISTRICT ATTORNEY ELECT: So many people would come up to me, and they would just shake their head, and they'd say what the heck is going on here in L.A. County? They were fed up with crime.

BERNAL: In San Francisco, a Democrat also defeated its current mayor, seen as being ineffectual in fighting homelessness and crime. And in Oakland, the mayor and the Alameda County district attorney both recalled after similar criticism, a trend USC Professor Christian Grose says is directly related to crime.

CHRISTIAN GROSE, PROFESSOR OF POLITICAL SCIENCE AND PUBLIC POLICY, UNIVERSITY OF SOUTHERN CALIFORNIA: The national views on crime are not that different than the state attitudes on crime.

BERNAL: He says social issues still trend blue, and voters here still prefer liberal candidates.

GROSE: But the crime issue is the one exception, where the crime issue is really becoming more conservative in this state.

BERNAL: It's about perception, he says, adding that while crime may not be at historic highs, that public perception is what motivated people to vote.

At Casa Vega, it was also crimes that were not prosecuted. But Christy says that the election results give her hope.

VEGA: I will definitely continue to be a Democrat, but I will not just be a tribal Democrat. And I think that that's where the country in general has lost its way.

(END VIDEO TAPE)

BERNAL (on camera): And after various incidents here at Casa Vega, the owner says she now spends about $100,000 a year on private security. She's hoping that the changes that this election will bring will allow her to spend more money on her restaurant, on her employees, and she hopes that the crimes, if they happen here, will be prosecuted. But of course, Fred, only time will tell how much of a difference this election will make. WHITFIELD: All right, Camila Bernal, thank you so much.

When we come back, the Pentagon says it received hundreds of reports of new UFO sightings. But are aliens real?

[14:35:05]

We'll get to the bottom of it all, or at least we'll try, with astrophysicist Neil deGrasse Tyson. There he is. He's going to set the record straight for us -- hi -- right after this.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

WHITFIELD: All right, it's a question a lot of people have asked for years. Is there intelligent alien life out there? And if so, is the U.S. government covering it up?

[14:40:04]

That was the focus of a House committee meeting earlier this week. The Pentagon revealed despite receiving hundreds of reports of UFO sightings, it didn't find any hard evidence of alien activity in those reports.

Joining us right now to talk about this is astrophysicist Neil deGrasse Tyson. He wrote the book "Merlin's Tour of the Universe," and it's out again, kind of a reprint, updated version. We've got it right here. Can't wait to get through it.

But first, let's talk about what has been said and not said on Capitol Hill as it pertains to other life forms out there. I want to play part of what a former official said in the hearing this week. Take a listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

LUIS ELIZONDO, FORMER SENIOR LEADER, AATIP: Excessive secrecy has led to grave misdeeds against loyal civil servants, military personnel, and the public, all to hide the fact that we are not alone in the cosmos.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

WHITFIELD: So what do you think? Are we alone or not?

NEIL DEGRASSE TYSON, ASTROPHYSICIST: Well, first of all, we all want to meet the aliens, so just let make that clear.

WHITFIELD: Yes, why not.

TYSON: And NASA and my professional community of astrophysicists have been -- we have subdivisions of our world where we're actively seeking contact with alien life and alien intelligence. There's an entire organization called the Search for Extraterrestrial Intelligence, SETI, OK, where that's what they do. That's all they do. So it's a little peculiar that if we've been visited by aliens, they only seem to go to government installations and not anywhere else in the world.

WHITFIELD: Yes, I want it to be like "E.T." and "Men in Black." I mean, those movies made me like, OK, I want to meet them. Why not?

(LAUGHTER)

TYSON: We have 6 billion smartphones in the world. I've said this before. And it seems to me we're in a position to crowdsource any possible alien invasion no matter where it's going to happen on earth. And I checked the math on this. There's a million people in any given moment who are airborne with a window sitting right next to them. So it's just odd that somehow the U.S. government has the monopoly on all access to alien data or alien sightings. It's just a little weird to me.

Now, most of the hearing, went for a couple of hours, was about transparency in the U.S. government. I don't have a problem with that. As long as we properly draw the line between what needs to be held secret in the interest of national defense and what can be released for our amusement, entertainment, or just enlightenment.

So I find it odd that there was so much concern about releasing information, given that we've had multiple hearings already, and we're trained for many decades of alien movies, here's my worry -- that the aliens are real, but our first reaction will be to presume they're evil, and then we'll, this being America, we'll just shoot them first, and then we won't be able to ask them questions.

(LAUGHTER)

WHITFIELD: Right. Well, what would be behind the psychology of shielding people, like folks you know just can't handle it? Is it because there is, I guess, this conventional wisdom that everyone would freak out, you know, and they just can't handle the truth? What is it?

TYSON: Yes, I'm not convinced. I think while we do some crazy things in society, I think the knowledge that we're not alone would be fully embraced. And we'd be curious about what it is and how it works and why, and if it has a different kind of biology. Oh, by the way, this simple statement, "non-human biologics", which came out in the hearings last year and were repeated in these hearings, when I think about that, I think of the tree of life. If you peel away the humans from the tree of life, everything else is non-human biologics. So if you have non-human biologics in a locked box, it could be tree bark and it would still be non-human biologics. So I need better data, better evidence than what has been presented. And until then, we'll keep looking.

WHITFIELD: OK. Hey, it's out -- something's out there. We've got to keep searching and.

TYSON: Yes.

WHITFIELD: Keep the curiosity going. TYSON: By all means we should continue, yes. But if you want me to

believe that they found aliens in a crash site, and every time a question was asked about the actual alien bodies, we cannot tell you that here, we have to do that -- all the cool questions they couldn't answer because they said it was a secret. OK, but like I said, it would be really hard for the government to keep that an actual secret. Get a janitor in there, because you know janitors have to clean the facilities, to just get a quick video or a shot and post it. They'll lose their job, but they'll be the most famous, richest janitor there ever was.

WHITFIELD: That's right.

TYSON: It would go viral immediately. Cat videos go viral for less.

WHITFIELD: Well, maybe somebody is listening and will take your advice.

OK, so let's pivot real quick to your latest book, which really is a revamp, right, of your first ever book in "Merlin's Tour of the Universe."

[14:45:03]

And you talk about the cosmos, and you answer readers' questions. Why did you choose to, I guess, make a return of this? And I love the illustrations. And is this this from your bro, your brother did some illustrations here?

TYSON: Yes, my brother has been an artist his whole life.

WHITFIELD: That's wonderful.

TYSON: And so he illustrated it. By the way, Merlin, as I've created him for this book, is itself an alien, right? So I love me some aliens. Don't get me wrong here.

(LAUGHTER)

TYSON: So Merlin, there's more than one Joe in the world. So this is like another Merlin who is born in the Andromeda galaxy, is visiting earth and has studied all of earth's scientific and cultural history. So when people asked Merlin, I don't quite understand gravity. How does that work? Merlin recalls a conversation in Isaac Newton's backyard, and Isaac Newton delivers the answer.

So these were the taproots of everything that would become of me as an educator. And I thought it was time to bring it into the 21st century. So I feel very -- I'm very almost emotional about returning my first book to peoples visibility here.

WHITFIELD: Yes, that's so nice.

TYSON: And through the lens of Merlin.

WHITFIELD: Oh, and congratulations. And so is this for many generations, because my executive producer, Heather, she's already got the book at hand. She's very excited about it and excited about sharing it with her son, who is very much into science. So, you know, she wants to know, for a 10-year-old, can they embrace this?

TYSON: Yes, plenty of 10-year-olds, have plenty of tweens, that's like eight to 11, 12, are precocious enough to absorb almost all the scientific content that I generate. So bring them on. But nearly all the questions that were asked were for a column that I wrote, and they're all asked by adults. And they played along just fine, "Dear Merlin."

WHITFIELD: Oh, that's cool.

TYSON: And Merlin was friends with all these historical characters, including Santa, because Santa is living on the North Pole, he's a very useful tool to describe what happens as earth rotates. So it was fun doing it, and I hope people have fun reading it.

WHITFIELD: Oh, that's so wonderful. You make it all so enjoyable, and, you know, really just something that everyone can grasp. And we appreciate that. And thank you so much for breaking it down and keeping us curious about all things, all things, because it's out there, all living things.

TYSON: Without curiosity, there's no tomorrow. There's no tomorrow without curiosity.

WHITFIELD: That's right. That's it right there.

All right, Neil deGrasse Tyson, wonderful to have you. Thanks so much. Best.

We'll be right back.

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[14:52:08]

WHITFIELD: All right, for the first time in four years, Iron Mike Tyson stepped back into the ring. It was one of the most highly anticipated boxing matches in recent memory. The former heavyweight champ squaring off against social media influencer turned boxer Jake Paul in front of a crowd of 72,000 in Texas, not Vegas. CNN sports anchor Patrick Snell is here now. OK, so did people get, you know, a lot of bang for their buck?

PATRICK SNELL, CNN SPORTS ANCHOR: There was certainly a lot of hype for their buck, I'll tell you that.

WHITFIELD: There sure was.

SNELL: Yes. It just left me wanting more. You know, you think of Iron Mike Tyson in his very prime, his ferocious, brilliant best. Unfair, of course, to make comparisons, because he's 58 years of age right now. But I'll tell you what, it was fascinating. There was so much hype in the build up to it all. Tyson's first pro fight, by the way, in almost two decades, 19 years as a spectacle. I'm going to be honest, it was far from compelling. In the end, a points victory for the 27-year-old Paul against Tyson, as I say, who is approaching 60 in just over a year-and-a-half or so from right now.

Frustrations not just as well for some of those 70,000 watching inside Texas, but also for the millions watching on Netflix as well. Friday night's fight was Netflix's first live boxing event. Viewers on social media reporting issues, including buffering delays, lags, and trouble loading the fight as well. And according to Down Detector, Fredricka, around 90,000 viewers reporting outages in the hour leading up to the fight. Netflix declining to comment on the issues.

As for the fight itself, Tyson off to a fast start, aggressive in the opening round. But Jake Paul giving Tyson plenty to think about. And a nice moment right at the end when they sort of hug it out, showing that mutual respect. But Tyson, he started to show signs of fatigue. He became stationary. He wasn't very mobile. As I said off the top, not surprising given his age. Paul winning it via a unanimous decision at the home of the Dallas Cowboys.

The contest left many fans, I'm going to say many fans inside that stadium disgruntled, disappointed at its conclusion. There was even boos ringing out in the arena as the fight drew to a close as well. So disappointing on many levels, but fascinating as well for boxing purists as well.

WHITFIELD: Oh, hey, it's still an event if it's Mike Tyson. And this really wasn't the only event. There was another fight.

SNELL: It was really, really a fascinating evening.

WHITFIELD: At least another one.

SNELL: Yes, there was so much to look forward to. And just a compelling rematch as well between two female fighters, Katie Taylor and Amanda Serrano. This was in the women's lightweight championship showdown. And maybe, you know, some suggesting that this should have been the main event of the evening. The fight was a return bout of the classic 2022 encounter at Madison Square Garden, Taylor winning that one by a narrow split decision. Taylor here, time and time again, Fred, just leaning in with her head, causing the cut that we would see above Serrano's right eye in the fourth. You can see the pain involved there.

[14:55:02]

That was in the fourth round, which opened up later on in the fight. The blood pouring out. Taylor was even docked a point for a headbutt in the eighth. And at this point, many feeling it would be Serrano's win to celebrate. But this fight was so much more active and exciting than the Paul-Tyson encounter. These two, look at this. These two warrior women just going at it. As time wound down in the 10th and final round, exchanging those fast and furious blows. Wow, what a moment there.

And then, well, the bell rings out. The Irish fighter Taylor was booed actually. Again, some boos ringing out. She successfully retains her crown with a contentious points victory. It was controversial, I will say.

But look, now it sets up nicely for the trilogy, the third event maybe.

WHITFIELD: Really?

SNELL: That's what a lot of fans will want. They want to see these two going at it again, so we'll see if that happens. Those two really have done their sport very, very proud indeed.

WHITFIELD: That was brutal. I know that was considered a really good boxing match, but that kind of reminds me, it's kind of hard to watch a boxing match for me.

SNELL: It can be. It can be brutal at times. But it's compelling as well.

WHITFIELD: Yes. All right, Patrick Snell, great to see you. Thanks so much.

We'll be right back.

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