Return to Transcripts main page

CNN Newsroom

Pam Bondi Faces Questioning as Trump's Pick for Attorney General; Bondi: DOJ "Must Act Independently" of the White House. Aired 10:30-11a ET

Aired January 15, 2025 - 10:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[10:30:00]

GRAHAM: I said, Pam Bondi. It's like an easy decision. I couldn't think of anybody more qualified, that he knew, that he trusted and it's OK to have you were his lawyer, right?

BONDI: Yes, sir. I represented him when they tried to impeach him the first time. As part of White House Counsel, Office of Special Counsel.

GRAHAM: Being Trump's lawyer prepares you for many things. So, yes, you have a long standing relationship with the President. He trusts you. That's a good thing. That's probably why President Kennedy picked his brother, Bobby Kennedy. I guess you can say no to you older brother. I'm sure he would. But this idea, there's something bad is ridiculous. Who do you pick?

You pick people you know, you pick people you trust, people you're qualified. I'm glad he picked you. He knows you, he trusts you, and you're highly qualified. So, the idea that there's something wrong with that is just absolutely ridiculous. So, let's talk about the job you're about to have here. Do you support making certain drug cartels in Mexico foreign terrorist organization?

BONDI: Senator, I personally went to Mexico. I personally dealt with these cartels when I was a state prosecutor. And they are a grave and violent threat to our country. Yes, Senator.

GRAHAM: Would you consider advising the President -- Good. Good. Now, when it comes to Crossfire Hurricane. Are those days over if you're Attorney General?

BONDI: Absolutely.

GRAHAM: OK. Laken Riley, are you familiar with that case?

BONDI: Sadly, I am, Senator Graham.

GRAHAM: Do you know why the man who killed her was released from custody? He was paroled due to detention capacity at the Central Processing Center in El Paso, Texas. Now, that's not your call -- you'll be DOJ -- but do you agree with me that the statute regarding parole doesn't allow parole to be based on we don't have detention beds? There's nothing of that statute would authorize parole based on lack of capacity. Are you familiar with that statute?

BONDI: Yes, sir, and that's frightening.

GRAHAM: Yeah, well, it is frightening. Are you going to fix it?

BONDI: I am going to do everything in my power to fix it, if confirmed as attorney general.

GRAHAM: Are you going to advise President Trump, we need more beds? Tom Homan's the guy that's going to do this, but would you as attorney general say, we need more bed space so Laken Riley never happens again?

BONDI: Senator, my job, if confirmed as attorney general, will be to keep America safe. And that includes...

GRAHAM: Do you think we need more detention space?

BONDI: And that includes having enough space for violent criminals for people that should not be in this country who have committed violent crimes.

GRAHAM: But to the...

BONDI: And Laken Riley is one of many.

GRAHAM: Yes. But 41,000 beds in this country to detain people, we've got like millions of people illegally. We let this dude go because we didn't have any place to put him. I hope those days are over.

And if, Tom, you're listening out there, I hope you'll create enough detention space to make sure we don't find this dilemma ever again.

Do you think we're at war? And if so, who with?

BONDI: Oh, Senator, we're at war on so many fronts.

GRAHAM: Are we at war with ISIS?

BONDI: Of course we're at war with ISIS.

GRAHAM: And they're at war with us. Do you agree with that?

BONDI: Absolutely, Senator.

GRAHAM: Do you think since our withdrawal from Afghanistan, threats from homeland have gone up from ISIS?

BONDI: Yes.

GRAHAM: OK. March 7th, 2024, General Kurilla: "ISIS-K retains the capability and will to attack the U.S. and Western interests abroad in as little as six months with little or no warning." That's March of 2024.

General McKenzie: "ISIS-K has a strong desire to attack the United States after it began to grow in Afghanistan following the U.S. exit in August, 2021." He also stated the threat to ISIS-K -- from ISIS-K is growing.

Major General Quantock: "The U.S. remains target number one for ISIS- K."

Do you agree with that?

BONDI: Senator, I don't have my security clearance. But from everything I've read and heard, ISIS is one of the greatest threats.

GRAHAM: OK. Well, when you get your security clearance, you're going to find out these people are coming after us and they want to kill us. So I would like to have a strategy to deal with the ISIS threat that's beyond just the law enforcement model.

Does that make sense to you that we should use every tool in the toolbox?

BONDI: Senator, that includes wrapping in our state and local officials too, and better cooperation throughout our country and our world.

GRAHAM: I totally agree. Do you support reauthorizing FISA in 2025?

BONDI: Senator, I believe 702 is up in 2026.

GRAHAM: OK. I'm sorry, 2026.

BONDI: I believe it's 2026. And we will closely be looking at that FISA as a very important tool.

[10:35:00]

GRAHAM: Do you agree that the 702 provides important intel gathering capability to protect our nation?

BONDI: Extremely important.

GRAHAM: OK. So, Pam, you're about to step into a job that's one of the most important jobs in any democracy.

Let's go back to pardons. If I'm a lawyer for somebody in jail before you made a decision?

BONDI: Yes.

GRAHAM: OK. No matter who you are. Good. That's the way it works. People want to bargain with you up here. Will you do this? Will you do that? All I ask you to do is call it as you see it. Hire good, competent people and give the president the best legal advice you can. Run the Department of Justice in a manner that other people would want to join it one day.

Growing up, I had a fondness for the FBI. I watched the show, I think it was every Sunday. I wanted to be an FBI agent. Right now, the FBI needs an image overhaul.

So you have a real task ahead of you in two areas. To restore trust to many Americans who have lost trust in the Department of Justice. And to make sure that this country is safe from drug cartels that are killing 3,000 Americans every two weeks for money.

To go after these people and to protect our homeland that's under siege. I think you're the perfect pick at one of the most dangerous times in American history. And I look forward to supporting you.

BONDI: Thank you, Senator.

GRASSLEY: Senator Whitehouse.

WHITEHOUSE: Thank you, Chairman. Welcome, Ms. Bondi.

BONDI: Thank you, Senator. And thank you for meeting with me. I greatly appreciate that.

WHITEHOUSE: It was a pleasure.

Ms. Bondi, you were a courtroom prosecutor for a great many years. As a courtroom prosecutor, did you ever have an enemies list?

BONDI: No, Senator.

WHITEHOUSE: And you want to be Florida's attorney general. As Florida's attorney general, did you ever have an enemies list?

BONDI: No, Senator.

WHITEHOUSE: As Florida's attorney general you're responsible for hiring into the Florida department attorney general, correct?

BONDI: Senator, the Attorney General's office in Florida is the third largest in the state, approximately 1,400 employees and approximately 400 lawyers. Only California and Texas are our bigger offices. So, yes.

WHITEHOUSE: And you were responsible for hiring into that office while you were Attorney General?

BONDI: Yes.

WHITEHOUSE: Would you have hired someone into the Florida Attorney General's office who you knew had an enemies list?

BONDI: Senator, to cut to the chase, you're clearly talking about Kash Patel. I don't believe he has an enemies list. He made a quote on T.V., which I have not heard. I saw your sign, or Senator Durbin's sign, about Kash.

But I know that Kash Patel has had 60 jury trials as a public defender, as a prosecutor. He has great experience in the Intel Department, Department of Defense. I have known Kash and I believe that Kash is the right person at this time for this job. You'll have the ability to question Mr. Patel when you do.

WHITEHOUSE: And I'm questioning you right now about whether you will enforce an enemies list that he announced publicly on television.

BONDI: Oh, Senator, I'm sorry. There will never be an enemies list within the Department of Justice.

WHITEHOUSE: Thank you. The FBI's -- what is the FBI's role in national security and counterterrorism and how important is that role?

BONDI: You know, Senator, I believe now more than ever counter- terrorism is so important and vital in our country. We are facing such incredible threats here and abroad.

If -- I'm sure many of you saw FBI -- former FBI Director Wray's interview on 60 Minutes. He talked about the threats that, frankly again, I don't have my security clearance.

WHITEHOUSE: Yes. But given...

BONDI: But the threats facing us, Senator, from China -- from China right now, that are so great, with the sleeper cells...

WHITEHOUSE: Given that...

BONDI: -- within our country.

WHITEHOUSE: Given that importance, is it responsible to call for shutting down the FBI's counterterrorism and national security work? And will you, as attorney general, impede or shut down the FBI's counterterrorism and national security work?

BONDI: Senator...

WHITEHOUSE: Two questions.

BONDI: Senator, I believe that national security is vital right now for our country on so many fronts. I could continue to discuss many others.

WHITEHOUSE: And the FBI's role in that?

BONDI: And the FBI plays a vital role in counter-terrorism throughout our...

WHITEHOUSE: Which you will or will not shut down.

BONDI: I will look at each agency. I have no intention of shutting anything down right now, Senator. I am not in that office yet. And if confirmed, I will look at each individual agency and how it should be managed. But counter-terrorism right now in our world is vital.

[10:40:00]

WHITEHOUSE: You have said that Department of Justice prosecutors will be prosecuted in the Trump administration. What Department of Justice prosecutors will be prosecuted and why?

BONDI: I said that on T.V. I said, prosecutors will be prosecuted to finish the, quote, if bad. Investigators will be investigated.

You know, we all take an oath, Senator, to uphold the law. None of us are above the law. Let me give you a really good example of a bad lawyer within the Justice Department. A guy named Clinesmith, who altered a FISA warrant, one of the most important things we can do in this country.

So will everyone be held to an equal, fair system of justice if I am the next attorney general? Absolutely, and no one is above the law.

WHITEHOUSE: Under what circumstances will you prosecute journalists for what they write?

BONDI: I believe in the freedom of speech, only if anyone commits a crime. It's pretty basic, Senator, with anything, with any victim. And this is -- this goes back to my entire career for 18 years as a prosecutor and then eight years as Florida's attorney general.

You find the facts of the case. You apply the law in good faith and you treat everyone fairly.

WHITEHOUSE: And it would not be appropriate for a prosecutor to start with a name and look for a crime. It's a prosecutor's job to start with a crime and look for a name, correct?

BONDI: Senator, I think that is the whole problem with the weaponization that we have seen the last four years and what's been happening to Donald Trump. They targeted Donald Trump. They went after him.

Actually, starting back in 2016, they targeted his campaign. They have launched countless investigations against him. That will not be the case if I am attorney general. I will not politicize that office. I will not target people. Simply because of their political affiliation, justice will be administered even-handedly throughout this country.

Senator, we've got to bring this country back together. We've got to move forward or we're going to lose our country.

WHITEHOUSE: Yes. I think the concern is that weaponization of the Justice Department may well occur under your tenure. And we want to make sure that that's not the case, that you remain independent, that you remain able to and willing to tell the president no when that's necessary for to protect the constitution and the integrity of the department. So that's where I'm asking these questions.

We talked in the meeting about the contacts policy that has prevailed really since Senator Hatch sat in that chair and demanded it of the Clinton Justice Department through all the administration since then with the exception of a brief period under Attorney General Gonzalez, which he corrected and which did not end well for him.

There has been a contacts policy that limits contacts between the White House and the Department of Justice to a very few senior officials on each side.

In your role as attorney general, if you are confirmed, will you maintain, defend, and enforce that long-standing contacts policy?

BONDI: Senator, yes, I will meet with White House counsel and I will meet with the appropriate officials and follow the contacts policy.

WHITEHOUSE: My time has expired. Thank you, Ms. Bondi.

GRASSLEY: Senator Cornyn.

CORNYN: Ms. Bondi, your testimony is music to my ears.

BONDI: Thank you.

CORNYN: One of the things that I have been most concerned about over the last -- certainly the last four years in extending back during President Trump's administration is the weaponization and politicalization of the Department of Justice, which together with the FBI is one of the most important institutions in this country.

If people don't trust that their elected officials will faithfully enforce the law or administer equal justice under the law, they've lost faith in America. And that disturbs me greatly. And I know it does you too, based on what you said.

So I'm delighted to hear you say what you have said. But I want to talk about some specific topics. Time is short. First, the border.

[10:45:00]

I believe President Biden and Vice President Harris had presided over one of the biggest humanitarian and public safety disasters in American history. Senator Cruz and I represent a state with 1,200 miles of common border with America.

But as you pointed out with fentanyl, what happens is the border doesn't stay at the border. Fentanyl poisoning is the most common cause of death of young people between the age of 18 and 45. We know where it comes from.

BONDI: Yes.

CORNYN: The precursors come from China. They go to the cartels. They mix them up, make them look like innocuous pills. And young people take them and die. It's just that simple and that tragic.

So there's just so much that we could talk about with regard to the border. But, you know, I know people voted for President Trump in large part because of his promise to restore security at the border.

Will you do everything within your power as attorney general to enforce the laws on the book, including the president's executive orders, which I anticipate he will be signing on January the 20th when he is sworn in, and help do everything you can and the Department of Justice can to restore security to our southern border? BONDI: Yes, Senator. Absolutely.

CORNYN: One example is, of course, if you come here to the United -- from anywhere in the country and you show up at the border under the Biden and Harris administration policies, you'll simply be released into the interior of the country, either to await a trial date, which may never occur due to the enormous backlog, or you will simply be paroled.

And I know parole has a special connotation in the criminal law, but in this context, as you know, it's designed to be administered on a case by case basis. Yet, President Biden and Vice President Harris had granted parole that has released people into the United States on a categorical basis or anybody who shows up or because they don't have the detention facilities to keep them.

So do you believe Laken Riley would be alive today if President Biden and Vice President Harris had enforced the law and secured the border?

BONDI: Senator, he should not have been in our country. And then Laken Riley would have been alive. And I don't think it's just Laken Riley. There are so many victims throughout our country.

Not only that, we're all familiar with the violent gangs who are coming into our country, walking into our country freely through the open border. The cartels, the gangs. Venezuela's let people out of their prisons. It's been reported. I don't have the security clearance yet to see what's happening.

But I know, we all know there are criminals throughout our country. And it is my commitment to you, on both sides of the aisle, that I will do everything in my power with the agencies that fall under me, if I am confirmed, to make America safe again. We have to do that, Senator.

CORNYN: Well, many of us, of course, see classified information on the intelligence committee, or just generally in our duties as a -- as a senator. And so, you're not going to feel any better about the blinking lights, the danger that -- that Director Wray has talked about.

In my closing moments here, I want to revisit an issue that is of particular importance, 60 percent of the president's daily brief, which is the intelligence brief that the director of national intelligence and the CIA director delivered to the president comes from Section 702 of the Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Act. I've called this the most important law that most people have never heard of. I know you have and you're familiar with it, but I want to ask you a few more -- a few questions about that.

It's been called the crown jewel of U.S. intelligence. And of course, it cannot be used legally used to spy on American citizens. And if it is, it ought to be prosecuted to the fullest extent of the law. I know you would agree with that. But there have been some, as you know and as you pointed out to Senator Graham, we have a temporary extension of the existing authorization for the use of the intelligence community to target foreign...

BONDI: Yes.

CORNYN: ... threats to our national security that expires in 2026. And I'd like you just to confirm here on the record that you will enforce that law and you can support the law as it is written.

BONDI: Senator, I haven't read the entire 702 in front of you, but I will commit to reading that and doing everything I can to keep America safe again.

[10:50:00]

CORNYN: Of course, you will. So, Director Ratcliffe, who's going to be, I'm going to go to his hearing on for CIA director. Of course, he was confirmed as Director of National Intelligence. He -- some have argued that in order to query, or look at lawfully collected FISA 702 product that you need to get a warrant requirement in order to show probable cause that a crime, including espionage, perhaps has been committed. But Director Ratcliffe has written that a warrant requirement may not achieve its intended objectives and could hinder national security efforts.

Do you share Director Ratcliffe's concerns?

BONDI: I would read his memo and I will speak to you after I read his memo, Senator.

CORNYN: Well, we need to have a -- I hope you and I can continue this conversation after this because I think there's a lot of misinformation with regard to how Section 702 works. I happen to be one of the members of the Senate Intelligence Committee. We read that product on a regular basis and it is not used to spy on American people. I think what's fundamentally missing is a lack of trust in the intelligence community, including the FBI, which I'm hoping you and Mr. Patel can restore.

Thank you.

BONDI: Thank you.

GRASSLEY: Senator Klobuchar.

KLOBUCHAR: Thank you. Thank you, Mr. Chair. We had a good meeting this week. Thank you for that. And I appreciated your priorities on human trafficking that you mentioned today. That work as well as fentanyl and some of your other prosecution experience. We had some similar backgrounds in doing that.

And I want to talk about first of all, the U.S. Attorney's Office in Minnesota. One of the premier offices in the country, this office has been instrumental in combating violent crime, dismantling street greens, taking fentanyl off our streets, enforcing civil rights laws after George Floyd's murder, ensuring victims of fraud get justice.

Do you agree that should be a priority to support U.S. attorneys, frontline prosecutors and case agents who work hard every single day on our streets?

BONDI: Senator, I think that is one of the most important things in our country right now. And there are so many good men and women within the Justice Department. Throughout our country as well as all the law enforcement agencies.

Yes, they work very hard and they will be supported.

KLOBUCHAR: The -- I'm concerned about some of the proposals that put could put cuts in the COPS program, Byrne JAG programs. I know you're familiar with those. Senator Murkowski and I lead the COPS reauthorization bill. Just will you commit to continue to support those programs?

BONDI: Senator, I will read everything about those programs because that is a top priority of mine, and I would love to meet with you on that and Senator Murkowski to support law enforcement and those programs.

KLOBUCHAR: Thank you. Independence from political interference is vital to the legitimacy and success of the Department of Justice. I was honestly troubled by some of the answers to Senator Durbin's questions. We will continue that discussion, I'm sure on the committee about the election, but I want to focus on the investigation charging decisions.

As a prosecutor, I'm sure you had this experience. I would get calls from people, hey, that's just a kid, give him a break. And I remember one answer I gave was, he's 40 years old, he's not a kid. But that kind of interference is attempted all the time. And one of my concerns here, whether it's a call from a friend, a corporate lobbyist, a White House it has been very clear that the attorney generals of both parties have established clear policies to ensure the White House doesn't tamper with criminal investigations and prosecutions.

At Attorney General Mike Mukasey's hearing, he made clear that any attempt by the White House and these are the words to interfere with the case is not to be cut in any call to a line assistant or to a unit -- United States attorney from a political person relating to a case is to be cut and curtailed.

Do you agree with the statement?

BONDI: Senator, yes, I believe that the Justice Department must be independent and must act independently. The number one job is to enforce the law fairly and even-handedly. And that's what will be done if I am confirmed as the Attorney General.

[10:55:00]

KLOBUCHAR: So, you will provide an insurance to every member of this committee that the Justice Department will only follow the facts and the law and the White House will play no role in cases investigated or brought?

BONDI: Senator, it will be my job, if confirmed, as Attorney General to make those decisions. Politics will not play a part. I've demonstrated that my entire career as a prosecutor, as Attorney General, and I will continue to do that if you confirm me as the 87th Attorney General of the United States of America.

KLOBUCHAR: And an earlier question with some of my colleagues talked about China and the risk, yet you have a nominee from this incoming administration, Kash Patel, the picked ahead the FBI serious concerns about him has referred to the FBI's Intel Division, which is responsible for protecting us from foreign adversaries like China as quote, the biggest problem the FBI has had. And he said that he wants to quote, break that component out of the FBI.

Do you agree?

BONDI: I have not seen those comments from Mr. Patel. I would review them. But we have to do everything we can to protect our country. Again, Mr. Patel would fall under me and the Department of Justice, and I will ensure that all laws are followed and so will he.

KLOBUCHAR: OK. There are many decisions made by the FBI director, having seen a number of them do their work that can be made while I agree you would be the boss of Kash Patel. I'm not sure that you would be able to intervene with every decision or position that he had or know what he's doing.

So, let's continue. Do you agree, it is the duty of the Justice Department to defend the laws Congress passes? And will you commit to do even when the President may disagree with an act campaigned against its passage or called it for its repeal?

President Reagan's AG, William French Smith said the Department policy was the Department has the duty to defend an act of Congress whenever a reasonable argument can be made in its support. So, I'm specifically referring to the 2022 law that I long led that we passed to empower Medicare to negotiate drug prices, major savings for seniors.

Will you commit to defend the law against the lawsuits from Big Pharma?

BONDI: Senator, I was involved in Big Pharma cases when I was Attorney General of the state of Florida, and I will commit to protect the laws of the United States of America.

KLOBUCHAR: OK, thank you. That would also, same question with the Supreme Court, is going to be hearing a challenge to the Affordable Care Act's coverage of preventative services and despite the fact that you twice joined suits to have the entire Affordable Care Act invalidated, will you commit to defending this law?

BONDI: Yeah, I believe this is very different. It's a very isolated, it's -- it's different. It's not the entire Affordable Care Act, but I will -- it's pending litigation, of course, within the Department.

KLOBUCHAR: Since the 1990s, the Freedom of Access to Clinic Entrances Act has protected patients, providers, and facilities that provide reproductive health services. Will you commit to continuing to enforce the FACE Act to address violence and threats against those providing reproductive health care services?

BONDI: Senator, the FACE Act not only protects abortion clinics, but it also protects pregnancy centers and people going for counseling. The law should be applied even-handedly. Yes, Senator.

KLOBUCHAR: So, you'll uphold the enforcement of that law?

BONDI: I'll uphold the enforcement of the law, Senator.

KLOBUCHAR: OK, and I will ask my Antitrust questions in the next round. We had a good discussion about that, and I do appreciate the nominee that has been put in place for the Antitrust Division, and there's incredibly important work that has to be done in that division.

So...

BONDI: Gail Slater is remarkable. Thank you.

KLOBUCHAR: Thank you.

GRASSLEY: I thank all of my colleagues for abiding by the seven-minute rule. Before I call on Senator Lee, I want everybody to plan on our first break would be about 11:50, and that would be 30 minutes for lunch.

Senator Lee.

LEE: Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Thank you, Ms. Bondi, for being here today. I, too, share the assessment that Gail Slater is great. Had a great meeting with her yesterday. And just thrilled that you're here and that you're willing to serve.

I'd like to talk to you as a longtime lawyer and one who has handled a variety of criminal matters about the Fourth Amendment. What can you tell us about the Fourth Amendment's warrant requirement and why it's so important?

BONDI: Well, the warrant requirement -- requirement is so important, which I've dealt with that since I was in my 20s as a state prosecutor. A warrant is so important because it protects citizens' rights. And that's why it's so important.

LEE: It does that specifically because under the Fourth Amendment, you're required to go to a judge and you're required to show a judge evidence, evidence providing probable cause.

[11:00:00]