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Biden Warns of Threats to U.S. Democracy; Cabinet Nomination Hearings Continue; Antony Blinken Delivers Address at State Department. Aired 11:30a-12p ET

Aired January 16, 2025 - 11:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[11:30:03]

QUESTION: Has there been anything that has changed or given you hope?

Because we're basically back in the same position we were 16 years ago.

ANTONY BLINKEN, U.S. SECRETARY OF STATE: Yes, thank you, Matt.

This is a long story. It's an enduring story. It's a story that is not likely to end any time soon. And if you go back over the course of many administrations, not only Secretary Rice, but so many of our predecessors and so many of her successors and now me, this is a story that we have been engaged in one way or another.

And I think each of us has probably brought the conviction to it that we could and could do everything possible to try to get to and write a better conclusion, a good conclusion for the story.

And so many of us for many years have labored to do just that. I think one of the lessons that we have to take away is that, as resourceful and as powerful as we are, at the end of the day, we can't make decisions for others. They have to make them. They have to make hard choices. They have to take chances.

We can do everything possible to push, to prod, to encourage, to support, but, ultimately, the decision lies with those most directly concerned. That's one thing. But the second thing is -- and I believe this strongly -- there's also no substitute for our engagement, for the efforts that we make in trying to move this forward and get to a better place.

And, yes, we have absolutely seen both progress and promise. And the question is whether leaders on all sides, with the people behind them, will find a way to seize on those opportunities.

So, as I laid out in some detail just the other day, when we took office, we very focused on pursuing greater integration in the region as the real answer to creating more security, more peace, more opportunity for people, not change -- not trying to change individual countries, governments, societies, but bringing them closer together.

And before October 7, we had done a lot of work on this integration, building on the Abraham Accords of the first Trump administration, pointing toward the normalization of relations between Saudi Arabia and Israel.

And, as you all know, we're all planning to go to Saudi Arabia and Israel because we have made so much progress on the normalization accords on October 10, a trip that, of course, didn't happen, to do two things, to try to help finalize agreements that were necessary to get to normalization, and, as part of that, to find a clear way forward, a pathway to a Palestinian state, vital to Saudi Arabia, very important to us as well.

Even with everything that's happened since October 7, I believe strongly, including from my many conversations with leaders in the region, whether it's in Israel and Saudi Arabia or beyond, that the desire to pursue integration, the desire to bring countries together, remains strong, remains powerful, and can be a driving force for finally resolving some of these other questions, including the Palestinian question.

Israel's deepest desire...

PAMELA BROWN, CNN HOST: All right, we have been listening to Secretary Blinken taking questions on Israel-Hamas, that deal.

But, as you heard, he was repeatedly interrupted by some cringeworthy heckling by activists, which is highly unusual in a situation like this. Let's listen to that, as he was thinking the press in the beginning of his comments.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

BLINKEN: Not always the most enjoyable thing, but it is the most necessary thing in our democracy.

(CROSSTALK)

QUESTION: ... reporters in Gaza were on the receiving end of your bombs. Why did you keep the bombs flowing when we had a deal?

(CROSSTALK)

BLINKEN: I'm happy to address questions.

QUESTION: You long knew we had a deal. Everyone in this room knows we had a deal, Tony, and you kept the bombs flowing.

(CROSSTALK)

BLINKEN: I'm happy to address questions when we get a chance. Thank you.

QUESTION: Why did you sacrifice the rules-based order on the mantle of...

(CROSSTALK)

QUESTION: Why did you allow my friends to be massacred?

(CROSSTALK)

BLINKEN: I'm happy to address your questions when we get to questions. Thank you. Thank you.

QUESTION: You helped destroy our religion...

(CROSSTALK)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Did you want to finish?

BLINKEN: Yes, I have a statement to make. I have a statement to make. Thank you.

QUESTION: You waved the white flag before Netanyahu. You waved the white flag before Israeli fascism.

BLINKEN: I look forward to taking questions when I get a chance to finish my statement. Thank you.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BROWN: All right, so that's what happened as this press conference started.

I'm going to bring it you, Alex. I mean, we were both sitting here pretty stunned, frankly. This is supposed to be a press conference with a room of journalists. Those were activists who were interrupting the secretary of state when he initially was thinking the press and talking about the Israeli-Hamas deal.

[11:35:05]

ALEX MARQUARDT, CNN CHIEF NATIONAL SECURITY CORRESPONDENT: Yes, I think it's really surprising.

A lot of our viewers will have seen protests on Capitol Hill, for example, during confirmation hearings, but it's very rare for something like that to happen at the State Department. I'm over there all the time in that Briefing Room, and you need to have a reason to be at the State Department. You need to have an appointment. You need to have press accreditation to come and go.

So it's unclear who those people were. So I think there's a real security question there, and in terms of, like, who gets to come into the building, I think it also speaks to the incredible anger at the Biden administration, both domestically and internationally, for the support that they have given to Israel.

You heard someone there talking about allowing them to kill my friends. I think he's referring to journalists in Gaza. But I think the bigger picture was a good question there from Matt Lee, a legend in that building from the Associated Press, talking about what's different between now and 16 years ago, when Condoleezza Rice was leaving the State Department. They were also talking about Israel and Gaza. And what's going to

change? How can anything change. And as we ducked out there, Secretary Blinken was talking about the Abraham Accords. And I think this is going to be something we're going to be talking about a lot in the coming months. This is essentially going to be the guiding principle when it comes to the Middle East for the Trump administration.

Trump, his biggest foreign policy victory, he would tell you, in the first term was the Abraham Accords, the normalization between several Arab countries and Israel. He wants to expand that to Saudi Arabia. And I think that is probably the best chance for things to change at this point, because Saudi Arabia is essentially saying that, if we're going to normalize with Israel, then there needs to be a Palestinian state.

And that is one thing that could end this war. So there are a lot of moving parts before we get there. But the one thing that really could change the paradigm of what we have been seeing in the Middle East is the enlargement of those Abraham Accords.

BROWN: And we have, I think, video of another angle of what happened there in the press room at the State Department. Let's watch.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: ... about Israel's nuclear weapons, everybody from the ICJ.

I was sitting here quietly, and now I'm being manhandled by two or three people. You pontificate about a free press? You pontificate about a free press?

You are hurting me. You are hurting me. You are hurting me.

I am asking questions after being told by Matt Miller that he will not answer my questions until I ask the questions. Wasn't the IC -- wasn't the point of the May 31 statement to block the ICJ orders? You blocked the ICJ orders.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Please, sir, respect the process. Thank you.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Oh, respect the process. Respect this process while everybody from the -- from Amnesty International, from Amnesty International to the ICJ saying that Israel is doing genocide and extermination. And you're telling me to respect of process.

Criminals. Why aren't you in The Hague? Why aren't you in The Hague? Why aren't you in The Hague?

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BROWN: Wow.

MARQUARDT: So I can't speak to who that was.

What I will say is that, over the past few years, whether it's the Pentagon, the State Department, the White House, we have seen -- and allow me to be cheesy for a moment. This is a testament to American democracy in the way that American administrations approach their press rooms.

They give accreditation to a wide number of journalists and increasingly what I would call less mainstream journalists, more opinion journalists, who have the opportunity to go to the State Department, to go to the White House, and to ask questions of the representatives of that administration.

So I'm always amazed by -- whenever I go to these different press rooms about who's actually sitting there. It's not just Americans. It's people from all over the world, from Turkey, from China, from South Korea, who get to ask questions of people like Matt Miller at the State Department or Karine Jean-Pierre at the White House.

And so there's a relatively open policy for now in these different press rooms. But what we're looking at is what was supposed to be the final press briefing by Secretary Blinken to a lot of the press who have been covering him for years. You can see a couple of them there in the front rows of the State Department.

And he was interrupted in a very dramatic fashion, not just on this one occasion, but several times during this ongoing press conference.

BROWN: Multiple time.

Yes, and I believe -- we need to check this, but there may have been more than one, and it may have been beyond the person we see right here. And, usually, as you pointed out, Alex, you see something like this on Capitol Hill.

We saw it during the Cabinet hearings this week with Pete Hegseth. It's unusual to see that in the press room at the State Department. But we also shouldn't lose sight of why everyone is gathered there today, to be able to ask questions of the secretary of state, Blinken, which is happening right now about the Israel-Hamas deal.

We heard Blinken say that it is imperative that that deal is implemented. There's been some last-minute hiccups along the way.

[11:40:02]

We're going to take a quick break and we will be back on the other end.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BROWN: Happening now on Capitol Hill, it is day three of confirmation hearings for president-elect Trump's Cabinet picks, including Trump's pick for Treasury, who would oversee taxes, tariffs and the debt ceiling.

CNN's Manu Raju joins us now from Capitol Hill.

What are you hearing, Manu? MANU RAJU, CNN CHIEF CONGRESSIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Yes, five nominees

actually have been going through their confirmation hearings today.

Perhaps one of the most high-profile ones is the Treasury secretary nominee, Scott Bessent. He's someone who is expected to be confirmed, potentially with some Democratic support as well. But, here, there's been actually some back-and-forth that has happened in this committee with Donald Trump's proposed tariffs, his threat to go after a number of American allies because of -- to push -- press them on a variety of issues, like Canada, like Mexico, as well as the adversaries like China.

[11:45:20]

That has been one of the criticisms that came from the top Democrat on the committee, Ron Wyden, moments ago, saying that he believes that those costs will be passed on to consumers and to businesses.

Actually, Bessent pushed back on that notion in this open hearing and so siding a lot with Donald Trump on this issue. So this is one of several nominees that are expected to be -- to move rather quickly. Potentially, as soon as next week, we could hear -- see some of these nominees be confirmed on the Senate floor.

And also some of the more controversial ones, like Pete Hegseth, Pam, Pamela, there's signs that Republicans are in good shape on that as well, some of the GOP swing votes indicating they are on board now. I just talked to Senator John Curtis of Utah. He says he is going to support this nomination, so a good sign for Donald Trump in getting his Cabinet filled, Pam.

BROWN: Yes, that's actually really notable that Senator Curtis is saying that. He was the one -- he was one of the ones we weren't really sure about.

Manu Raju, thank you so much.

We will be right back.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BROWN: President Joe Biden will leave the White House in a matter of days. And last night, he delivered his farewell address to the nation and issued a stark warning about the threats of wealth and unchecked power.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JOE BIDEN, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: Today, an oligarchy is taking shape in America of extreme wealth, power and influence that literally threatens our entire democracy, our basic rights and freedoms and a fair shot for everyone to get ahead.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BROWN: As Donald Trump gets set to take office, the leaders of what Biden called the tech-industrial complex are expected to attend his inauguration Monday with some prime seating. The heads of X, Meta, Amazon, TikTok, Google and OpenAI are all set to be there, and they will reportedly have seating right near Trump's Cabinet nominees and incoming administration.

Joining us now with CNN contributor and veteran tech journalist Kara Swisher.

Kara, off the bat, I just want to get your reaction to what we heard from President Biden, warning of the dangers of an oligarchy taking shape in the U.S.

KARA SWISHER, CNN CONTRIBUTOR: Well, he's actually referring to Dwight Eisenhower's speech, the military-industrial complex. It had very similar resonances. It's a similar phrase.

[11:50:01]

And you should go back and watch that, because that's something to deal with, because he was a general himself.

And so I thought it was a very strong speech. I don't know if anyone's paying attention to it right now, but historically it's the correct thing to have done. I thought he was quite articulate about it and he was giving the warning. Now, again, nobody's paying attention to him. But I thought it should have been said and it should be said by the president. And he's echoing a very great president, Dwight Eisenhower.

So I thought that was great.

BROWN: So we know Musk, Elon Musk, has a close relationship with Donald Trump, but we're now seeing these other tech bosses trying to cozy up to the president-elect.

The leaders of Google, Meta, Amazon, Tesla, OpenAI will all be at the inauguration. Some have donated to his inauguration. And "The New York Times" reports that Mark Zuckerberg is even hosting an inauguration party.

SWISHER: He is. He is, indeed.

BROWN: What does this signal to you that these tech leaders are playing such a big role in Trump's inauguration?

SWISHER: They're sucking up to him. I don't know what else to say. They have self-interest, shareholder interest. They want to make money. Many of them don't like him, and I have heard from them, but they don't care. They're sitting there.

In Musk's case, actually, he was kind of rejected by Biden for that E.V. summit, which is probably the greatest error Biden made in terms of getting him mad enough to head over to Trump, because Musk wasn't particularly political before that. He got very angry about the lack of invitation to an E.V. summit.

That said, that's water under the bridge. They all are -- either they like him or they want to suck up to him or they feel that there's self-interest here and that's what they're doing. A lot of them are doing it -- just ignoring how they actually feel in order to do that. Interestingly -- Uber is also there, by the way.

Interestingly, Satya Nadella, who did meet with President Trump, and Elon showed up, like he always does. He's like the guest that never leaves. He's not going, which is interesting. But some of them -- and, interestingly, a lot of some of the media people aren't going, which is interesting.

But I think it's just pure self-interest. I don't know what else to say.

BROWN: Well, let's talk a little bit more about Mark Zuckerberg, who has announced these sweeping changes.

SWISHER: If you insist. If you insist.

(CROSSTALK)

BROWN: Well, I know you have a few choice words about this, so I wanted to talk about it, because I saw what you said on your podcast.

SWISHER: Yes.

BROWN: So, it's, like, clearly timed out, it seems, to release all these different initiatives that would appeal to Trump, right?

SWISHER: Right.

BROWN: And to both its back-checking and DEI programs, he attributed the changes to a -- quote -- "cultural tipping point."

SWISHER: Sure.

(CROSSTALK)

BROWN: And let's take a listen to what Trump said last week.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DONALD TRUMP, FORMER PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES (R) AND CURRENT U.S. PRESIDENT-ELECT: Meta, Facebook, I think they have come a long way. I watched it. The man was very impressive.

QUESTION: Do you think he's directly responding to the threats that you have made to him in the past?

TRUMP: Probably. Yes, probably.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

SWISHER: Yes.

BROWN: There you go. You call Zuckerberg eight sad, shameless, weather vane. What do you mean by that? SWISHER: Yes, he is indeed.

I mean, if Kamala Harris was president, he'd be asking us to call him they/them and celebrating and getting a Swiftie tattoo. I don't know. I don't know what he would have done if -- he goes wherever the power is. And that's the way Mark Zuckerberg behaves throughout his career. Again, naked self-interest is what is on the -- his agenda.

At the same time, he doesn't want to pay for what it takes, the cost it takes to do actually good moderation. So he makes all kinds of excuses, fact-checkers don't work, A.I. doesn't work, et cetera, et cetera.

And so this is what he does. He's been like this the whole time. I'm not even slightly surprised. And in four years, if a Democratic wins, he will be kissing up to them. And that's what he does for a living.

BROWN: All right. So let's move on to Elon Musk. It seems like no one -- as you pointed out, he's just the perennial guest, right? No one seems closer to Trump right now than he is.

But take a listen to what Steve Bannon said about the Tesla billionaire.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

STEVE BANNON, FORMER WHITE HOUSE CHIEF STRATEGIST: Look, when you write $250 million worth of checks, when you have got -- when you're that involved, when you have actually backed a ground game, you're going to have a seat at the table.

I have argued it can't be at the head of the table, and that table shouldn't be the Cabinet Room in the West Wing. There's power and there's influence. What's shocking to me is, he doesn't have much power.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

SWISHER: Yes.

BROWN: Is he right?

SWISHER: Well, I hate to agree with Steve Bannon, let me -- believe me. It happens once every millennium, but he's correct.

I think the reasons we -- I think Steve Bannon wants to be relevant, and that's why he's doing this. And he, of course, has been shoved out by Elon Musk. And Elon Musk has the money that Steve Bannon doesn't have. Steve Bannon certainly had influence and then got zeroed out and then was back again, whatever.

He's probably jealous of the closeness and the access and would like it for himself. On the other hand, whatever you think of his beliefs, he's a true believer, and he probably thinks Elon Musk is sort of a pay-to-play guy. And I think he's probably 100 percent right. And Trump is a pay-to-play kind of guy, and he needs the money. He needs the cudgel of Elon Musk to threaten various and sundry primaries and things like that.

And so he's useful to him at this moment. And that's proven by the fact that the world's richest people are going to be sitting on a freezing cold stage on uncomfortable chairs on display like they're on -- china dolls or Chinese plates on a shelf.

[11:55:12]

BROWN: We can -- yes, we can envision.

SWISHER: Yes. You know what I'm Saying.

BROWN: I know exactly what you're saying.

SWISHER: Yes. Yes, toys on a shelf.

He's put them up there to show them off. These are the world's richest people, who could be anywhere else, and they're sitting there at the behest of Donald Trump. And they're going to sit there and take it from him because he's now the president of the United States.

BROWN: Kara Swisher, thank you.

SWISHER: Thank you.

BROWN: And thank you all for joining us. I'm Pamela Brown.

Stay with us.

"INSIDE POLITICS WITH DANA BASH" starts after a short break.