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Trump Fires Inspectors General From Over A Dozen Federal Agencies; Pete Hegseth Confirmed As Defense Secretary Through Tiebreaking Vote; Trump Rallies Supporters In Las Vegas; Four Female Israeli Soldiers Freed In Second Round Of Hamas Hostage Deal; "Border 2" Fire Raging Near Border With Mexico; Rain Forecast May Help Fight Fires, But Brings Flood, Mudslide Risks; Oscar Nominations Announced After Delay Due To CA Wildfires. Aired 4-5p ET

Aired January 25, 2025 - 16:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[16:00:19]

JESSICA DEAN, CNN HOST: You're in the CNN NEWSROOM. I'm Jessica Dean in New York.

Right now President Trump speaking in Las Vegas. We're keeping an eye on this. We're going to bring you more on that in just a few moments. But first, we do want to start with some breaking news that President Trump has fired internal watchdogs from more than a dozen federal agencies in a late Friday night purge.

Now, some Senate Republicans have some questions about this. The inspectors general receiving an e-mail from the White House Office of Presidential Personnel saying, quote, "changing priorities" led to their termination.

Now that decision clears the way for Trump to install his own picks for those roles which are meant to operate independently.

And let's go straight to CNN's Annie Grayer, who is live on Capitol Hill.

Annie, what are you hearing from lawmakers about these this late-night move by President Trump?

ANNIE GRAYER, CNN CAPITOL HILL CORRESPONDENT: Well, I'm hearing a wide array of reactions from lawmakers, both Democrat and Republican. But I first just want to put in context exactly what Trump did, which is he fired nearly a dozen independent watchdog agency, individuals whose job is to oversee government agencies. Their role is to examine whether there is any waste, fraud and abuse or mismanagement happening at these agencies. They're not political individuals, but Trump removing them allows him to install his own choices for these again nonpartisan roles.

And he did so without giving Congress the 30 days' heads up that is required by law before removing any of these individuals. So Republican Senator Chuck Grassley, who leads the Judiciary Committee, has some concerns about this. And I want to read you a statement that we were provided. He said, quote, "There may be good reason the IGs were fired. We need to know that if so. I'd like further explanation from President Trump. Regardless, the 30-day detailed notice of removal that the law demands was not provided to Congress."

I also spoke with Senators Lisa Murkowski and Susan Collins this morning, who raised concerns with me about Trump's decision to do this. But I have to say, most of the Republican senators I talked to didn't even know that this had happened until I started asking them questions about it this morning because just of how late at night Trump made these moves. And then, of course, there were some Republican senators who just rubber stamped what Trump did because they are looking to, you know, be behind him no matter what Trump decides to do.

I want to also play you what the top Democrat in the Senate, Chuck Grassley, had to say about this.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SEN. CHUCK SCHUMER (D-NY): Yesterday in the dark of night, President Trump fired at least 12 independent inspector generals at important federal agencies across the administration. This is a chilling purge, and it's a preview of the lawless approach Donald Trump and his administration are taking far too often as he's becoming president.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

GRAYER: That was Senator Chuck Schumer, the top Democrat in the Senate. And what's clear from reactions today is there's going to be a lot more follow up from Congress about Trump's actions overnight.

DEAN: Yes, I mean, you got at it right there, which is the law states they should have this 30-day heads up, which was obviously not given to them. And the question is, what, if anything, do they do about it? Or do they push back?

These firings come as the Senate confirmed two of Trump's top cabinet picks. We have Kristi Noem for the role of secretary of Homeland Security, and Pete Hegseth for secretary of defense, with Vice President JD Vance casting that tiebreaking vote late last night.

Annie, obviously, Senate Republicans are working quickly. They are in session or they were in session on a Saturday to try to get these confirmations through.

GRAYER: They are trying to give Trump these early wins as Trump continues to issue these executive orders, but needs to get his cabinet stood up to start getting some of these priorities actually into effect. But what we saw with Hegseth last night was nothing short of a nailbiter. It was a tie vote in the Senate until JD Vance came in at the last minute as vice president to break that tiebreaking vote.

That's because Senator Mitch McConnell was a surprise vote against Hegseth last night. It's no secret that McConnell and Trump have a long, bitter history. And this was just the latest development in that chapter. But Hegseth was confirmed and sworn in this morning.

And then Noem had a much more easier confirmation process. She even had seven Democratic senators vote to confirm her this morning.

[16:05:05]

So what we're seeing play out is Republicans trying to give Trump these early wins, as he's trying to get his cabinet sewed up as quickly as possible.

DEAN: All right, Annie Grayer on Capitol Hill, thank you so much for that reporting today.

Right now in Las Vegas, President Trump is rallying with supporters. And tips are top of mind for the president in Nevada. It's a swing state. He took back for the first time in 20 years for Republicans back in November.

CNN's senior White House reporter, Kevin Liptak, is joining us now.

Kevin, obviously, this rally is still ongoing. We see the big sign behind you. No tax on tips. What else are we hearing from the president?

KEVIN LIPTAK, CNN SENIOR WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: Yes, he did just get to that subject in this speech. He's about 25 minutes into his rally here. The ostensible subject was that promise he made on the campaign trail, which was to eliminate taxes on tips.

But what we've really heard the president doing in this rally is taking a victory lap of sorts, both for his presidential election win, which was helped in part by his victory here in Nevada, but also running through the actions that he's taken in his first week in office and really trying to show this room of supporters, we're inside of a casino here, that he was serious about fulfilling what he said he would do as a candidate, ranging from things like immigration, a crackdown on immigration, but also, in his words, getting rid of all that woke crap, all of these items that he's been doing since taking office through executive action.

Of course, the subject that he is really here to talk about, no taxes on tips, is not something that he'll be able to do on his own. That will require help from Congress. And as Congress prepares to write new tax policies as the 2017 tax cuts that Trump signed in his first term are set to expire, this will be part of that conversation. And in fact, in his speech just today, the president said that over the coming weeks, he would start working with members of Congress to start the work towards renewing some of those tax cuts, but also adding things like no taxes on tips.

And, you know, it is interesting in the speech, he has been very forward looking, talking about those taxes, but he has also been quite backward looking as well, going after the Biden administration for its economic record, going after President Biden himself for his stamina, for his dealings with foreign leaders. And so that is, I think, those dueling strains of the Trump presidency that we're starting to see coming into much sharper focus is focusing on his own record but still that intense attention on the past as well.

DEAN: Yes, you make such a great point there.

Kevin Liptak for us with the president in Las Vegas, thank you very much.

For more now we are joined by Isaac Arnsdorf, senior White House reporter with the "Washington Post," and Shelby Talcott, White House correspondent with Semafor.

It's good to see both of you here.

Shelby, I just kind of want to zoom out for a second. Trump has been president now for almost a week, five days since he became president. We have seen this blitz of executive orders and actions that he has taken, including some that are already being legally challenged. And we know that his team promised to move quickly.

Here we are, that is what has happened. They wanted this kind of shock and awe feeling. What are you hearing about how this strategy to kind of flood the zone is playing out?

SHELBY TALCOTT, SEMAFOR WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: Well, with Trump's team, they're extremely happy with it. They spent the past two months after the election really focusing with their transition team on getting these executive orders ready and as you said, coming to office with sort of a shock and awe mentality. And that's very different from his first term. And that was intentional. This transition team wanted to make sure that what happened in his first term, which he kind of won in a surprise victory, a lot of people on his own team did not expect him to win, and he came into office far less prepared.

They wanted to make sure that that was not going to happen again. And so this first week for them, when I talked to Trump aides and people in the White House, has been a huge success.

DEAN: And Isaac, we were just talking at the top of our show. The Senate now has confirmed these two additional nominees. Of course, the Senate Republicans working hard to get through as many of those as quickly as they can. We also have this move late last night of President Trump firing at least a dozen inspectors general. The law is that Congress is legally owed a 30-days' heads up. That did not happen.

We are really seeing again and again where the president and his administration are pushing congressional Republicans to see just how far they can go with them. How do you expect this to continue to play out?

ISAAC ARNSDORF, WASHINGTON POST SENIOR WHITE HOUSE REPORTER: Well, not just Republicans, but also the courts. I mean, the difference between the legal challenges, if you remember Trump's first term eight years ago, the first week ended with the injunction to the first version of the travel ban. And if you compare how that worked out to the legal challenges that they're getting now, the difference is now they're by design. They're intentionally doing things like the birthright citizenship and some of the civil servant firings.

[16:10:02]

They're trying to provoke legal challenges because they want to have that constitutional argument that they think that they can actually win in court. And, you know, the inspectors general is kind of like that, too, like what's, you know, what's going to happen if they didn't notify Congress 30 days ahead? Probably, probably nothing, except Trump is going to get the inspectors general who he wants now or leave the positions vacant, and that avoids having a political scandal later on when they actually run into an issue from someone and have to go through firing them then.

DEAN: Shelby, is there a point when, especially Senate Republicans say, OK, it's enough, like we're getting pushed around too much? Or do you think, I mean, to Isaac's point, maybe nothing comes of this and he gets the inspectors general he wants and everybody goes about their business?

TALCOTT: I think that's exactly what we're going to find out. Right now it seems like for the most part, barring some individuals, the majority of the Republican Party is sort of content to sit back and say Donald Trump won this election. Let's see what he does. But of course, as with everything, especially lawmakers in Congress tend to have their own minds and sometimes they are pushed too far. And so I think that's something that we are going to see.

And now what I think is notable, though, is right now, again, Donald Trump won this election and he is seen by lawmakers as sort of the leader of the party. And so they're willing to accept a level of, OK, I'm going to sit back and just let him do his thing. There's always limits to everything, though.

DEAN: And Isaac, last night, Pete Hegseth's confirmation ended up being a split vote. They had to have the vice president, JD Vance, come in and break -- be the tiebreaking vote because Mitch McConnell joined Susan Collins and Lisa Murkowski to oppose Hegseth's nomination. What do you think about McConnell in this new position? He's no longer leader of Senate Republicans. He's not up for reelection.

You know, is he kind of unburdened by some of this? Do you think we could see more of this, or was this kind of a one-off and don't read too much into it?

ARNSDORF: Yes, I think that's right. I mean, he's speaking for himself now rather than speaking for his conference. And that's a difference. You know, he was -- when he was the leader, he wasn't going to do something against the wishes of a majority of his Republican senators, 26 or whatever it was. And now he can do that. And so actually, what's interesting about this is he didn't bring anyone along with him.

So that tells you something about how the Republican Senate has changed, you know, even in the few months since he has been leader and that he didn't actually have the ability to bring any votes with him.

DEAN: Yes. And, Shelby, we were just watching President Trump in Las Vegas talking with the group there. It's a no taxes on tips rally, as Kevin Liptak was explaining to us. But I thought Kevin made such a great point, which is that we kind of saw the dueling parts of Trump's -- you know, kind of Trump's nascent second presidency playing out, which is he's looking ahead. He's taking these actions. He's talking about what he wants to do.

But he also returned back to Joe Biden and criticizing Joe Biden and criticizing his age and making fun of him. It is just kind of probably what we should expect to see continue, especially in these rally like settings.

TALCOTT: Yes, I don't anticipate that changing. This is sort of who Donald Trump is. And remember, you know, Donald Trump likes to have an enemy. He likes to have something to go after and something to attack. And in this instance, Joe Biden is sort of that easy target, because even though Donald Trump won, he is now in office, his argument is, well, I have to focus on all of these things that the former president did.

And so Donald Trump functions best when he has sort of that enemy. And clearly that enemy is Joe Biden. And I anticipate that we're going to be hearing that, you know, even a year or two from now, we're going to be hearing some of these comments about the past, as he's done throughout the past six to eight years.

DEAN: Yes. All right. Isaac, Shelby, thank you so much. We really appreciate your time.

ARNSDORF: Thank you.

DEAN: Still ahead today, firefighters in the Los Angeles area making strides against several destructive wildfires that have now burned for weeks. How incoming rain could actually be a new cause for concern. Plus, Hamas frees another group of Israeli hostages in exchange for Palestinian prisoner as the ceasefire and hostage agreement appears to be holding. This, as we learn Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu is making an effort to arrange a meeting with President Trump in Washington.

We'll talk all about that when we come back.

[16:15:00]

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

DEAN: Four female Israeli soldiers held captive in Gaza for 15 months are now back home safe in Israel. Karina Ariev, Daniella Gilboa, Naama Levy and Liri Albag, all released by Hamas today.

Take a look at the moment when these women were finally reunited with their families.

(VIDEO CLIP)

[16:20:11]

DEAN: Fifteen months they waited for that. This marks the second round of releases in phase one of the Israel-Hamas ceasefire and hostage agreement. And as part of that deal, 200 Palestinian prisoners were then released by Israel.

CNN's Jeremy Diamond is following all the developments. He filed this report.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

JEREMY DIAMOND, CNN JERUSALEM CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Flanked by armed Hamas militants, this is the surreal moment four Israeli soldiers emerged from 477 days of captivity. But before they are freed, one final moment of Hamas propaganda, smiling and waving as a crowd of hundreds whistles and cheers.

Their first taste of freedom looks more like this. A rush of emotions as they embrace their parents for the first time on Israeli soil.

Hamas militants had taken them hostage 15 months earlier at the Nahal Oz military base near the Gaza border, where the four women served as field observers monitoring militant activity in Gaza. Their warnings to commanders about Hamas preparations for an attack ignored.

In one of the most searing images of October 7th, one of the soldiers, Naama Levy, is seen being taken into Gaza, her pants stained with blood. Now she is reunited with her family. In Israel, an entire country welcomed them back.

And that sound you hear behind me are hundreds of Israelis who are welcoming those four female Israeli soldiers just freed from Hamas captivity, who have now arrived at this hospital here, where they're about to be reunited with their families and begin their long journey to recovery.

(Voice-over): For the family of Agam Berger, the last remaining female Israeli soldier in Hamas captivity, mixed emotions.

On the one hand, we feel great joy, her grandfather tells me. But on the other hand, there's also some disappointment. She was supposed to be among those released. Still, he says today has given him hope she will be next.

The four captive soldiers were exchanged for 200 Palestinian prisoners held in Israeli jails, including 121 who had been sentenced to life in prison, three of whom were arrested for orchestrating deadly bombings that targeted Israeli civilians.

In Gaza, hundreds of displaced Palestinians gathered at the gates to northern Gaza. They were meant to be allowed to return north today based on the ceasefire agreement. For hours, they desperately waited on Al-Rashid Street, carrying all their belongings, ready to finally return home.

I've been here since 6:00 a.m., Yusra says. I missed the north and the soil of northern Gaza. My house is gone, but I will live in a tent if I have to. The most important thing is to return north. I'm counting the time, not just in seconds, but in milliseconds, this

woman says. We left the north with tears of sorrow and we will return with tears of joy.

That joy soon turned to disappointment. The Israeli government said it would not allow civilians to return to northern Gaza as planned, claiming Hamas violated the agreement by not releasing a civilian female hostage due to be released. Instead of returning home hundreds ran in panic amid a hail of gunfire. Israeli soldiers firing what appeared to be warning shots towards the crowd.

But as the sun set, many here remain undeterred, camping out by the checkpoint, waiting for their chance to return home.

Jeremy Diamond, CNN, Tel Aviv.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

DEAN: And joining us now is former State Department Middle East negotiator Aaron David Miller. He's also a senior fellow at the Carnegie Endowment for International Peace.

Aaron, thanks so much for being here with us. There's a lot to get to just within Jeremy's piece alone. I kind of want to go back to the beginning, which is where we're seeing these four female soldiers in this last act. Hamas makes them go through this whole propaganda moment where they're taken up on this stage and that whole thing, and then they release that video about it later.

I don't know if Aaron can hear me or not, but, what did you think of that, Aaron, if you can hear me?

AARON DAVID MILLER, FORMER STATE DEPARTMENT MIDDLE EAST NEGOTIATOR: Look, I think, you know understand why it was in Hamas' interest to cut this deal. You saw the pictures of Hamas fighters masked and unmasked on the streets of Gaza, assuming control, they'll control the distribution of humanitarian assistance. They gave goodie bags to the previous three Israeli female civilians who were released last weekend.

[16:25:09]

You saw the show on the stage. So for Hamas right now, having been beaten down by the Israelis as an organized military force, they still exist. And as this deal goes forward, as more Palestinian prisoners are released, as more hostages are returned, you approach the moment of truth for both Hamas and Israel, which is stage two, end the war, release all the hostages, and withdraw Israeli forces from Gaza. That's going to be the tough moment for the prime minister in particular.

DEAN: Yes. How confident are you that we're going to see a phase two happen?

MILLER: Right now I'm not confident at all because on the Israeli side, you saw the departure of one of the two extreme rightist parties in Mr. Netanyahu's government. That brings Benjamin Netanyahu down to 62. You need 60 plus one in the Israeli Knesset to maintain a government. The other, Bezalel Smotrich, is threatening to resign if at the end of phase one the war does not resume. And this is why February 4th, which is, what, 12 days from now or so? That the negotiations are -- over phase two are going to begin.

It's no wonder that Benjamin Netanyahu is seeking a meeting with Donald Trump in Washington before that fateful phase two is put on the table.

DEAN: Yes, I did want to ask you about that, because what do you think that meeting is going to look like? Because we get the news that he's seeking that meeting. We also learned today that the Trump administration has lifted the Biden administration's hold on those heavy bomb deliveries to Israel.

MILLER: You know, Donald Trump and Trump 1.0 fashioned himself as the most pro-Israeli history -- in the history of the relationship, if not in the world. I think the choices for the Trump administration this time around are much difficult, much more difficult. Remember, Donald Trump deployed his key negotiator before he was even inaugurated, who had a significant impact on doing this deal, Steve Witkoff.

Donald Trump has claimed responsibility repeatedly for the release of these hostages. In short, Jessica, Donald Trump owns this agreement. And there's a real reality that it could possibly crater on his watch. So, Mr. Netanyahu, I think, is coming to try to reach some understanding on any number of issues. But what to do about phase two is clearly going to be one of them.

DEAN: Yes. And I know we do have that reporting that last -- I believe it was last weekend that some of Trump's incoming officials had met with some of the hostage families and said that they were committed to seeing all phases of this play out. But again, as we've learned throughout this entire, you know, 15 months that this has gone on the U.S. only has so much leverage.

MILLER: I mean, that's a critically important point. The real question, I think, is whether Donald Trump is prepared to do what Joe Biden was not prepared, which is to bring significant or sustained pressure on Mr. Netanyahu to alter Israel's policies, particularly with respect to Gaza. We don't know the answer to that question. What we do know is that Benjamin Netanyahu did this deal in large part because he did not want to become a problem for Donald Trump in the initial days of his administration.

And I think Netanyahu believes that he could not -- he cannot manipulate, I hate to use this word, or play Donald Trump the way he did it over the course of the last year with the Biden administration. But it's yet to be clear to me whether or not Donald Trump is prepared, really, to get tough. And I think his acumen and capacity as negotiator is going to be tested because this is going to be the first foreign -- potential foreign policy crisis of the administration, when in fact phase two rolls around and it cannot be implemented because the Israeli government could fall. Mr. Netanyahu has the possibility of accepting a safety net from the

opposition. So already told him that he can maintain himself as prime minister. The agreement will be implemented, the government won't fall. But for Benjamin Netanyahu on trial for bribery, fraud, breach of trust in a Jerusalem district court, that's the beginning, I think, of a very slippery slope, which could mean the end of his being prime minister and the possibility of either a conviction or cutting a plea deal that would force him to end his political career.

[16:30:04]

So momentous days and weeks ahead, Jessica.

DEAN: Yes, much more to come.

Aaron David Miller, as always, thank you. We appreciate it.

MILLER: Thank you.

DEAN: California firefighters have spent weeks battling fire after fire. This weekend, though, they are getting some help from Mother Nature. They're getting some rain, which, in theory, sounds wonderful, but there are risks involved now with the rain in that area. We'll explain what those will be when we come back.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

DEAN: Another fire is raging in southern California. The "Border 2" Fire in San Diego County, near the Mexico border, is blazing through hills at, so far, 10 percent contained. It is leading to evacuations.

[16:35:02]

Rain is in the forecast, which could help with the fighting of fires, but it also comes with a very real danger of floods and mudslides.

The National Weather Service says the threat is high enough to prepare for the worst-case scenario. So a flood watch is in effect from Sunday afternoon through Monday afternoon for many of those areas who were just charred and leveled by fires.

Los Angeles County fire chief, Anthony Marrone, is joining us now live.

Chief, thank you so much for your time. We really appreciate you being here.

First, just give us the state of play, how you see the current situation with the wildfires in your area.

ANTHONY MARRONE, FIRE CHIEF, LOS ANGELES COUNTY FIRE DEPARTMENT: Yes, well, the current situation in Los Angeles County and the city of Los Angeles, we're just coming off of 19 days of firefighting.

You know, over a 16-day period, Jessica, we had 10 different large brush fires. The two most significant, the Palisades Fire and the Eaton Fire.

But now we're facing, you know, a prediction of rain from the National Weather Service. And we're preparing for mud and debris flow.

DEAN: Yes. And I know that that's just it's almost a one-two punch of sorts.

And I was talking to someone, and it makes sense, once you kind of think about it. Once a fire comes through and everything is so leveled and -- and it is destructive in that way, it really, unfortunately, creates a very good environment for flooding and mudslides.

MARRONE: Yes, absolutely. The fires burn very hot. There's very little vegetation left on the hillsides. Normally, only the skeletons of the plants that were there before.

And that is not enough to hold back the mud when the water comes. And that water comes right into the communities that were so devastated by these tragic fires.

DEAN: And so how all -- how do you all prepare for that?

MARRONE: Well, we partner with our other public safety agencies in L.A. County, the sheriffs, along with our Department of Public Works. We do have hydrologists out on the slopes, looking at the slopes, coming up with some remediation plans.

We're trying to get information to residents who have been let back into these evacuation order areas.

But like you said, this is a one-two punch. We just got off -- we're on day 19 without -- during our fire fight. And we've had very little rain since April of 2024. So we need the rain. We just don't need it all at once.

DEAN: I know.

And you mentioned day 19. I know your firefighters, these heroes that have been going nonstop for days now, over two weeks, how are they holding up? How much longer can they keep going?

MARRONE: You know, they are hanging in there. L.A. County firefighters never give up. We did double our -- our shift staffing on the morning of the seventh before any fire started. So we were well prepared to respond not only to the Palisades Fire but to the Eaton Fire.

But we remember, that day, we had four separate large fires start. You know, we had the Sunset Fire above the Hollywood Hills, the Palisades, the Eaton and the Hearst. They're tired, but they still have it in them to come to work and provide outstanding service.

DEAN: Yes, they're amazing.

And I know you're really still in it, as you've just illustrated by explaining so much of that to us. But have you begun, have you all begun at all to be able to start

thinking about any things you've learned from this or have you made any, you know, changes to how you approach fighting these fires as you've gone through this whole process?

MARRONE: You know, we haven't made any immediate changes to how we fight fire. The Los Angeles County Fire Department has a long history and tradition of responding to wildland brush fires. It's common for us here.

We have a very large fleet of aircraft that drop water. We have contract aircraft that -- Super Scooper that assist us along with the CH-47 from Coulson Aviation.

So we have plenty of wildland resources in addition to our bulldozers, our wildland firefighting camp crews that cut the line or the perimeter around the fire.

But there is going to be a very comprehensive review of not only our preparation, but our response to make sure that we can do it better next time.

We've never experienced this type of extreme red-flag event. In my 39 years, 39-year history, I have never seen fire behavior so erratic and so -- so strong.

It was like a hurricane with fire. And no one could have prepared. We couldn't bring enough resources in quickly enough. If there even are enough resources.

DEAN: Yes, just the magnitude of -- of how that all came together.

All right. Chief Anthony Marrone, thank you so much for your time. We appreciate it.

MARRONE: Thank you.

[16:40:00]

DEAN: We'll be right back.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

DEAN: Hollywood getting ready to roll out the red carpet again with the 97th Academy Awards announcing this year's nominees. The nominations were delayed after those devastating wildfires in the Los Angeles area, with some calls to even cancel the awards completely. But the show will go on.

Netflix's "Emilia Prez," leading the nominations with 13 nominations, while "The Brutalist" and "Wicked" picked up 10 each.

[16:45:05]

And joining us now is executive editor for "Deadline Hollywood," Dominic Patten. Dominic, it's great to have you here. Thanks for being here.

DOMINIC PATTEN, EXECUTIVE EDITOR, "DEADLINE HOLLYWOOD": Thank you. Jessica.

DEAN: I just, first, want to say, I know we've had a little time for this to set in. What were the surprises here?

PATTEN: Well, I think there were a number of surprises. I think some of the surprises were in the snubs we saw on Thursday morning with Denzel Washington, who everyone assumed was going to be nominated for his role in "Gladiator 2."

And Nicole Kidman, who was going to be -- we -- everyone assumed that that past Oscar winner was going to be nominated, too. They were not.

It was also interesting that the director of Wicked -- though "Wicked", is nominated for best picture and many other things -- the director, Jon Chu, was not nominated.

Other surprises I think we saw was, well, if you have or have not seen "The Brutalist," it's brutally long and --

(CROSSTALK)

DEAN: Its very long.

PATTEN: -- second part of it. Yet, very long.

And so if you get -- there's an intermission. So if you get to the second half of it, Felicity Jones shows up. It was very surprising.

And I have to say a compliment to the patience of Oscar voters that they actually stuck around long enough to see her fabulous performance.

Another surprise, I would say Sebastian Stan for his role in the Donald Trump original story movie, "The Apprentice." That movie had received threats from the now president. At that point, past president and candidate.

It looked like it was not -- it wasn't even going to pick up a distribution, which it did. Now, Sebastian Stan is nominated as Donald Trump and Jeremy Strong, of "Succession" fame, is nominated as Roy Cohn.

DEAN: Yes.

PATTEN: So "The Apprentice" looks like it's a real contender.

DEAN: Yes.

And Sebastian Stan won a Golden Globe for another performance in a different movie, which is -- he's -- he's having quite a year.

I did want to ask you about -- PATTEN: Right.

DEAN: -- best -- the best picture category. At this point, who do you think should win and who do you think will win? Because sometimes those don't always line up.

PATTEN: Well, here's the thing. Unlike last year, when we pretty much all knew that "Oppenheimer" was going to take it, this race is really wide open.

As you mentioned in the introduction, "Emilia Prez" has 13. It's the best picture. "Wicked" has 10. It's the best picture. "The Brutalist," it has 10. It's a best picture. There's a number of films here that are in the running.

I think that, at this point, as you go into the final stage of voting and, of course, now we're at the Sundance Film Festival, which is reinvigorating movies in its own way, I think things are still a little bit up in the air.

So I wouldn't put your money down on a sure thing anywhere here. If anything, think of it like roulette. Spread it around the wheel.

DEAN: Yes, yes.

And then there's the best actress category. It could have some history in it. Karla Sofia Gascon making history as being the first openly trans woman to be nominated,

Cynthia Erivo could become the youngest EGOT winner. You have Demi Moore, who's never been nominated in her incredibly long and notable career. It's a really fascinating category this year.

PATTEN: I think so. And I would say one of the things, too, is, you know, you're looking at, as you said, a lot of history here. The first openly trans nominee in an acting category.

Cynthia Erivo, who is really right on the cusp of joining the legendary EGOT group. Cynthia Erivo, who I might -- I might point out, who was here at Sundance last night, received the Visionary Award at the Sundance Gala from past Oscar winner, Olivia Colman.

So you're looking at that. And then, of course, Demi Moore, who won at the Golden Globes, which really, really invigorated her. She gave an amazing speech about resilience and endurance. So you might see something there, too.

There's a lot of open spaces here in this. And that, I have to say that, for once, makes the Oscars much more interesting than it usually is. Because you know what? Nobody likes to see it when it's a sure thing. We all like a bit of a race.

DEAN: We like -- it's like -- it's like Hollywood. We like a little surprise. We like a little twist.

(CROSSTALK) DEAN: Something to pull us in.

So on that -- on that note, you know, we -- we know about Oscar campaigns of yore and all the jockeying to win. Is that still how the game is played, or has it evolved since then?

PATTEN: Oh, I mean, I would say you're correct on both ways, Jessica. It's still how the game is played and it's still evolved a lot.

Now, of course, we live -- as we learned in and just this past election, we live in a world where the traditional barriers and traditional media outlets -- I won't say those guardrails have totally fallen away, but they've certainly changed.

So online campaigning, digital media campaigning, social media campaigning, these are all playing additional roles.

And of course, when you look at, say, "Emilia Prez," that's a movie that's on Netflix. So if you want to take a look at that, you don't even have to go down to the local cineplex. You just turn on -- on your -- on your TV and off you go. So I think that changed the way of this a lot.

What's interesting about Academy voters is they are clearly being a little bit more adventurous this year.

I'll give you an example. A movie like "Nickel Boys," which is a movie which completely plays with the idea of perspective based on the 2019 Pulitzer Prize-winning novel.

It is all about the POV of its characters, these young boys who are in a Florida reform school back in the Jim Crow era. And that is something the Oscar voters went for. And it was a real surprise.

[16:50:03]

So I think we're seeing both a lot of traditionalism -- let's be honest, there are two musicals in the best movie category -- in the best picture category -- but we're also seeing a lot of originality.

And I think this could play to -- to play to a really interesting evening, come -- come the -- the 97th ceremony hosted by Conan O'Brien, who I might point out --

(CROSSTALK)

PATTEN: -- is also here at the Sundance Film Festival.

DEAN: Wow. Well, I mean, everybody wants to be at Sundance. Sounds fun.

Dominic Patten, thank you so much. We appreciate it.

Stay with us.

PATTEN: Thank you. DEAN: Yes.

Much more after the break. You're in the CNN NEWSROOM.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[16:55:13]

DEAN: A new CNN film chronicles the life of actor, Christopher Reeve, best known for his famous portrayal of Superman on the big screen.

But his greatest role may have come later in life as a powerful advocate for research into spinal cord injuries like the one he suffered.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

CHRISTOPHER REEVE, ACTOR: When the first "Superman" movie came out, the most frequently asked question was, what is a hero? My answer was that a hero is someone who commits a courageous action without considering the consequences.

Now my definition is completely different. I think a hero is an ordinary individual who finds the strength to persevere and endure in spite of overwhelming obstacles.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

DEAN: "SUPER/MAN, THE CHRISTOPHER REEVE STORY" airs next Sunday night, February 2nd, at 8:00 p.m. Eastern and Pacific, right here on CNN.

We are already seeing the real-world impacts of Trump's first-week crackdown on immigration, with U.S. military aircraft deporting dozens of migrants out of the U.S. We'll tell you what makes this deportation effort different. We'll talk more about it. That's next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)