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Four Israeli Hostages Now in Custody of IDF in Israel. Aired 5- 6a ET
Aired January 25, 2025 - 05:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
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DANIEL HAGARI, IDF SPOKESPERSON (through translator): And behind this mission, the soldiers are standing, who are fighting for 15 months and paying the price, the heavy price, and of course the aid for one, they're soldiers. They died in the battles and others that go injured in the battles.
In the last 1.5 years, we heard many people joined this circle of bereavement that -- we need to remember them in this morning.
This is a pain, a painful time for the people of Israel. The IDF is working with Shabak (ph), the government, to bring back the hostages, the dead and alive. We are going to continue fighting in all the fronts and secure the state of Israel.
HAGARI: Our mission has been clear. Bring home all the hostages held by Hamas in Gaza. Today, as part of this ongoing efforts, we welcomed home four more Israeli hostages after 477 days in Hamas captivity: Liri Albag, age 19; Naama Levy, age 20; Karina Ariev, age 20; Daniela Gilboa, age 20.
Four IDF soldiers who were all abducted from Hamas by Hamas from Nahal Oz on October 7th, 2023. Today we salute and embrace them and their families as they reunite just now, after so long.
We cannot and will not forget the 90 hostages, including women, children and elderly men, still remain in brutal conditions in Hamas captivity. Hamas failed to meet its obligations to first release Israeli female civilian hostages as part of the agreement.
We are determined to return -- to the return of Arbel Yehud, an Israeli citizen, kidnapped from Nir Oz, and also Shiri Bivas and her two children, Kfir and Ariel, whose welfare we are extremely concerned about.
We appreciate and thank the efforts of all international mediators, United States, Qatar and Egypt. And we expect them to make sure Hamas stands in accordance with the agreement.
IDF troops will continue to be deployed and operate and to do everything, everything to protect the citizens of Israel. Our mission is not over until every single hostage comes home. (Speaking foreign language).
QUESTION: (Speaking foreign language).
HAGARI (through translator): To -- about Hamas not adhering to the agreement, we are committed to the Arbel Yehud return that was kidnapped from Nahal Oz. This is the agreement. We need to adhere to. It. And we'll do everything to make it happen.
QUESTION (through translator): Is there a reason why Agam Berger is stayed in captivity?
HAGARI (through translator): Agam is a very brave soldier. We are committed to a return. We -- and do everything that Agam will return.
QUESTION (through translator): Did Hamas transferred the dead and the living list?
HAGARI (through translator): We haven't received the list. We will update the families and then the public.
Channel 13.
QUESTION (through translator): Is IDF going to evict the Netzarim corridor?
HAGARI (through translator): We are committed to the agreement and I'm not going to say more. And we'll update you further when necessary.
KIM BRUNHUBER, CNN ANCHOR AND CORRESPONDENT: This is CNN NEWSROOM. I'm Kim Brunhuber. Here's where things stand right now with the breaking news in Gaza. The Israeli military says it now has custody of the four Israeli hostages that Hamas released a short time ago.
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They are now back in Israel and will be taken to a hospital. That led to celebrations in Tel Aviv's Hostage Square, where families of hostages have been gathering for the past 15 months. In exchange, Israel is expected to release 200 Palestinian prisoners. CNN's Paula Hancocks joins us live from Abu Dhabi.
Paula, we were just listening to an IDF spokesperson there. You were listening in. Take us through what was said and just the general reaction to this monumental moment.
PAULA HANCOCKS, CNN CORRESPONDENT: So Kim, in this statement from Daniel Hagari, he said that they would be expecting more hostages to be released in the coming weeks but was talking specifically also about the four Israeli female soldiers that have just been released by Hamas.
They are now, we understand, in Israeli territory. They are going to be taken to an initial screening area in southern Israel, where they will have that immediate medical checkup and then be reunited with their parents.
Now from that point, they will then be taken to a hospital where their longer term recovery will begin and where they will have the reunion with the wider family. So a very similar situation to what we saw on Sunday.
But we did hear from Hagari some criticism about the way that the hostages were handed over from Hamas to the International Red Cross.
We did see in Palestine Square within Gaza City that that they were brought up onto a stage and in front of a fairly sizable crowd, not just of standers-by and residents but a significant number of Palestinian fighters as well.
Of this, Hagari said that it shows cynical -- the cynical way that Hamas has organized this ceremony, also calling it a charade, saying also that Hamas had broken some elements of the ceasefire deal, within this deal.
In this first couple of weeks, it was expected to be female civilians and children that were released. However, names that they were expecting to be on the release sheet were not there.
And so instead of having a female civilian, as expected, there were the soldiers' names, also mentioning the Bibas family. Now we know this is a family of two children, a mother and a father, who have not been heard from and who the Israeli military and the Israeli government have said that they want more information on.
So what we really heard with this statement was that there are problems but these problems have not upended this ceasefire deal at this point. The process is still continuing.
It just goes to show how complicated and how difficult the whole process is. So we know now that those four hostages will be heading to their families for reunion later today. We don't have a timing on this at this point.
We will also be seeing 200 Palestinian prisoners being released. Now we've had more details about the prisoner list itself. There are going to be 50 prisoners released for every Israeli hostage that was released because they were soldiers. It's 30 for every civilian.
But because Hamas considers a soldier to be a higher value target, if you like, then they are going to have 50 being released for each of those hostages; 121 of them are serving life sentences. We understand many of them are from militant groups -- Hamas, Palestinian Islamic Jihad and also Fatah.
And some 70 of them will not be allowed to the occupied West Bank or the Gaza. They will be deported to Egypt -- back to you.
BRUNHUBER: Appreciate that. Paula Hancocks in Abu Dhabi, thank you so much.
I want to bring in now Jeremy Diamond, who is live at Hostage Square in Tel Aviv.
Jeremy, the sight of so much emotion as the images of those four hostages being released was shown to the people there. Take us through what you saw.
JEREMY DIAMOND, CNN JERUSALEM CORRESPONDENT: Yes. People here have been following every twist and turn of this release.
From the moment when we saw those first live images inside Palestine Square in Gaza of Hamas, you know, setting up the stage, setting the scene for this very dramatic, clearly propaganda filled release of these four captive Israeli soldiers.
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We then saw, as those four captives were released by Hamas, were put on a stage first, smiling and waving at the crowd that was there, clearly still very much under duress in their final moments of captivity.
And then, as they were taken into those Red Cross vehicles and as the news broke here that they had crossed into Israeli territory, we heard people once again erupt in cheers.
Moments ago, the crowd here was listening to Admiral Daniel Hagari, the spokesman of the Israeli military, who addressed that show of force by Hamas, calling it a cynical show by Hamas, suggesting that, while they pretended to show that they cared about these hostages, the reality is that they have been held captive for 477 days.
He vowed that the Israeli military was committed to the release of all of the remaining Israeli hostages held inside of Gaza. And he also accused Hamas of failing to meet its obligations to return civilian hostages first.
Last week, of course, we saw three female civilian hostages being released by Hamas from Gaza. Today they are former Israeli soldiers who have been held captive since October 7th.
Israel had demanded that Arbel Yehud, one of those remaining female civilian hostages, be released today when she was not included on the list that Hamas released last night.
There was some real questions about whether or not Israel would consider that to be a breach of the agreement, whether Israel would move forward with receiving these four Israeli soldiers instead of any additional civilians.
Today. In the end, those questions were answered by Israel moving forward with this release, receiving those four female Israeli soldiers.
But some questions about why that happened and what this means for the next several weeks, whether Arbel Yehud, one of the last remaining female civilians inside of Gaza, held hostage by Hamas, will be released in the next round. We understand that she is being held by Palestinian Islamic Jihad
rather than by Hamas. That may be a complicating factor here.
But again, for now, this crowd certainly elated. We have seen so many shows of emotion and we expect that the next stage of this process is, that once they are at this military base in Reim, near the central part of the Gaza Strip, they will be reunited with their mothers.
And then shortly after that will be on their way to a hospital here in central Israel.
BRUNHUBER: All right. Appreciate that reporting, Jeremy Diamond in Hostage Square in Tel Aviv. Thank you so much.
I want to bring in Miri Eisin, senior fellow with the International Institute for Counterterrorism and a retired colonel of the Israel Defense Forces. She is in Tel Aviv.
Thanks so much for being here with us. So I just want to start with this emotional day. And we talked to the to the uncle and aunt of Daniela Gilboa and they were talking about how the whole nation essentially was waiting to see their loved one.
Certainly emotions that we saw as well, playing out in Hostage Square as well. Talk to us about how Israel is feeling right now on this day.
COL. MIRI EISIN, SENIOR FELLOW, INTERNATIONAL INSTITUTE FOR COUNTER- TERRORISM: Kim, we've spoken often enough over the last 15 months, you and I -- and right now I'm goose bumps and crying and I'm not crying from happiness.
I'm crying because I don't want to show the videos of what the staged Hamas did. I want them to show right now the horrific pictures on October 7th, of five young women in pajamas, terrified, as they were taken from their rooms on Saturday of October 7th.
And that's why I'm crying. And yet I'm goose bumped. And I'm elated because they've come home. And that could have been any one of my kids. That could have been your next door neighbor. Remember that Israel has the draft. Any one of these young women is any one of us.
And so I'm not elated. I'm just in that sense, as I say, that roller coaster of both crying and at the same time being so angry as I see the way that Hamas is so cynically just destroying that moment.
But I won't let them destroy that moment. I want you to show what they show in their destroying way but to show also how they took these five women, only bringing back four of them.
Right now, there's an additional young woman soldier still held by them and remembering that they're doing this to stage a moment and to diminish the attack that they did and everything that goes on. So as you can hear, very mixed emotions here.
BRUNHUBER: Yes. And not just to stage the moment in terms of showing those four hostages. But we also saw just such a stage managed show of force from Hamas. They were heavily armed.
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And showing basically Israel that they are still here. They are still in command.
What do you make of the propaganda value of that moment for Hamas?
EISEN: So there's going to be the zoom in and the zoom out. And, Kim, I hope that we will, as it goes on, show the zoom out. So they're going to bring in a thousand people. You put in a thousand people in close quarters, as Paula said before, it looks like a lot of people.
And when you zoom out, you see it's not so many people.
When it goes to the uniforms, isn't that part of the cynicism?
When they attacked on October 7th, some of them wore uniforms, not all of them. Ever since then, inside the Gaza Strip, they never -- zero wore uniforms, including Yahya Sinwar when he was killed.
That's a terror organization. It's a terror entity. It's what I call a terror army. So that they're using that, we've never said that we've destroyed all of the weapons. We've never claimed that we could destroy all of the weapons.
But that's exactly what they want to show, that they still exist because, for a terror army, you use terror tactics. And when it's convenient, you view yourself as an army. So they're doing both. And one additional aspect about that propaganda staged moment, my heart broke when I saw those four young women in uniform.
You know why?
Because they were taken in their pajamas. When you look at the film that was put out on the day that they were seized so brutally from their base on October 7th, the five of them -- as I said, one has not been brought back -- are in their pajamas.
They're in T-shirts and in shorts, what they were wearing when they were taken from their beds. And here they're being paraded in uniforms as if they were fighting against Israel on October 7th. No, they were in bed in PJs. And that's the way they're being paraded now.
BRUNHUBER: Yes, certainly those four women became symbols in a way of the suffering of so many hostages, as you described there.
I want to ask you about what we heard there from the IDF spokesperson, that some of the conditions here were broken and what that says about how the rest of these exchanges and possibly going on to the next phase of this will unfold, given that.
EISEN: So the first thing I'm going to say is that they gave back four of the soldiers when they were supposed to bring back civilians.
What's the difference? The difference is, when you and I talk, Kim, we understand that when a woman, Shiri Bibas, was taken together with her two children, 9 months and 2 years old and has not been seen of since, that doesn't show well on a stage.
That doesn't show well in an exchange.
And even worse than that, what if they're not among the living?
So what they're doing right now is they want to stage a moment. They want us to go, oh, look, we're strong, Hamas. We control, Hamas. And what we did, Hamas, was against Israeli soldiers. They took four women, five, as I said in PJs, aside from the 16 other women that they murdered on that day on the base.
And I'm just talking about that. So in that change of what they're doing is they're trying to control the visual moment. And Kim, that means a lot. We're talking on TV afterwards. There're going to be clips. Everybody's going to show the clip of the four women on uniform.
And I want them to show the clip of the five women on that day, as I said, in PJs. And they're not giving back the civilians. It makes me wonder what happened to the civilians.
Are they alive?
Are they dead?
They want to control that moment and they're going to try and continue to do so as it goes on. And it's part of our own resilience in Israel that we need to stay strong, because we need to get them back.
And we're paying a very heavy price. The price that we're paying insofar as the tried and sentenced terrorists that are in jail, that are going to get out today, are one aspect. The second price is in breaking our hearts in the way that they're showing this and the propaganda parade.
BRUNHUBER: Yes, it should be pointed out, not all of the Palestinians who are being released are terrorists, of course. I want to ask you about, you know, we're talking about the propaganda value of some of these images.
But there are also, we can't forget, just these happy images of these soldiers being released and also of the -- what we saw in Hostage Square. So much emotion from the nation as that moment happened.
I was talking with an expert in the last hour and they were talking about how perhaps this moment will put more pressure on prime minister Netanyahu to, you know, go on with this deal and possibly get to phase two so that we can see more moments like this and possibly to a phase out and so on.
Do you think that this moment will contribute to that, to more pressure being put on the prime minister to go on and get this finally done?
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EISEN: This government made the decision and it wasn't exactly a popular one in the government. They did it, as I call it, pulling teeth. And yet they did it. The problems right now are not with Israel, they're with Hamas.
And I agree with you. Not all Palestinian prisoners are terrorists. But out of the 200 released today, 121 participated in active terror acts. I'm talking blood on the hands. And by the way, the other ones were arrested, put on trial and are prisoners. Not all of them have blood on their hands.
But I say that because that's the release.
The challenge for Israelis is, how would you feel if right now they're letting out today the person who murdered your parents?
OK. That's part of the ones who are going to be let out today. That's who Hamas is demanding to let out, meaning they came in and did what they did on October 7th. And what they want in exchange is not the people that they kidnapped, like Shiri Bibas and her two children that they haven't even brought out yet.
What they want back are murderers, amongst others. But that's the bulk of them, that they're getting out of jail now. So it's a very mixed feeling for the government. I don't think that there's more pressure on them now. I think that they've gotten past that stage.
I'm more worried about Hamas not fulfilling, as read today, where they're supposed to bring out the civilians and they didn't. So you go, oh, that's little. But it's not little because Hamas wants to show this as being as if soldiers for prisoners.
But it's not. It's about kidnapped, ransomed hostage Israelis, as I say, young women in PJs. And they're going to try and trot this out in a different way. And I'm more worried about them not living up to the deal.
BRUNHUBER: All right. We'll have to leave it there. But always appreciate speaking with you, Colonel Miri Eisin, thank you so much.
EISEN: Thank you. Kim.
BRUNHUBER: All right.
I want to bring in Bianna Golodryga, CNN senior global affairs analyst. She's in Petah Tikva, Israel.
I was with you last hour with those emotional, emotional scenes that were playing out behind you. Take us through exactly where you are and about those emotions that are just spilling over on this monumental day for the families behind you.
BIANNA GOLODRYGA, CNN SENIOR GLOBAL AFFAIRS ANALYST: Yes, we are just so fortunate to have been invited into the home of the aunt and uncle of Daniela Gilboa. We've been here for about two hours and witnessed with them in real time these four female hostages come out.
Seeing their reaction in the moment when they saw Daniela, friends and family have gathered here. The entire community here has been supportive of this family. We were here for the moment.
Then, when Daniela's mother got on the phone with her brother, her uncle here behind me, and just the sheer joy, the screams, the popping of champagne bottles, they're still glued to the television here, watching every moment.
We saw the mothers of these four hostages on television here in local news a few moments ago, seeing their daughters and reacting to that moment. And just speaking to these family members, Daniela's aunt, seconds after she saw her, she was lost for words for a moment.
But it's very --
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BRUNHUBER: I'm sorry, Bianna, I just want to jump in for one second. Bianna, I just want to jump in for one second, because you mentioned Daniela's mother. She will presumably be in -- you know, we won't see her but in some of the images behind us.
We're showing the Reim base where the hostages will be taken, will be taken in those Red Cross vans. That is where presumably the family will be meeting some of those hostages, to give them, as we've seen in previous releases, those hugs.
They'll get a preliminary check and then they'll be taken later to Tel Aviv. So we just wanted to explain some of the pictures that we were seeing in our other screen there as they relate to exactly where you are and the families who are who are celebrating this moment right now.
GOLODRYGA: Yes. And once these four hostages are in Israel and are reunited with their families, they will be taken to a hospital where they will be undergoing evaluation, medical testing and will be isolated from much of the world and, of course, the media.
They'll be spending some much needed time with their families and getting the medical attention that they need. If I could go back, though, to the sound that we were hoping to play from Daniela's aunt, just moments after she saw her, when I asked her what that moment felt like, here's what she said.
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UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: So we are very excited now. And it's a big time for us. And we just want to hug her. We want to see her and to hug her and to say to her that she is in a -- she's safe now and everybody is waiting for her.
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GOLODRYGA: And then I saw, as I mentioned, Daniela's mother speaking with her brother, Razi (ph), just behind me here in their living room as well. He put the phone on speakerphone so we could all hear in the room.
The tears were just overflowing from everyone, from grandparents, children that are just toddlers came to witness this moment as well. And, of course, now is also a time when they're reflecting on those who were not released, who they did not see on that prop stage there by Hamas.
Where we saw those four female soldiers, wearing those IDF uniforms, namely Agam Berger. She was the fifth of the five female IDF observers who were kidnapped on October 7th. As she was not part of the release, the family has been notified. They were notified last night as soon as her name was not on that list released by Hamas.
And they're very hopeful that she will be coming out soon, perhaps even as soon as next week, for the next hostage release. But it's very clear and notable how all of the families, as excited they are as they are right now in the moment, know that the fight continues.
And they are hoping and they are praying and determined to bring home the other 90 plus hostages that remain in Gaza.
BRUNHUBER: Yes, absolutely, a bittersweet moment. But still, I was struck by those, the hugs, the screams of joy in the family behind you.
And as well, you talked to her uncle, who was talking about the recovery process and how they'd have to give her time and give her that element of control, to feel like she'd be able to be in control of her life again after 15 plus months of being under the control of enemies.
GOLODRYGA: No doubt it will be a long road to recovery here for these hostages. But it's clear they have all the support that they could ever imagine, not only from the medical community, their families, of course but the whole country at large.
You see, week after week, the thousands of Israelis that had gathered in Hostage Square. This was the first few weeks where there truly had been a sense of joy and hope that a deal could actually be implemented and these hostages start to come home.
And I think seeing the conditions of these hostages, both in this most recent release and in that last week as well, has renewed some of their optimism and their determination to bring home every hostage they can, because they know that time is of the essence and they want to bring all of them home, if they can, alive.
BRUNHUBER: All right. Really appreciate the reporting there. Bianna Golodryga in Petah Tikva, Israel, thank you so much.
All right. I want to go now to Nada Bashir, who is live in the West Bank town of Beitunia right now, near the Ofer prison.
Nada, as I said. You know, we're focusing so much on the return of the hostages and what it means to the families as well. But it can't be forgotten that there are 200 Palestinians who are being released as well. Take us through exactly who is being released and what the process will be.
NADA BASHIR, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, we are expecting 200 Palestinian prisoners to be released today under the terms of the agreement. Last week, what we saw was 30 Palestinian prisoners for each hostage released.
This time, because we are seeing female Israeli soldiers being released, it is 50 Palestinian prisoners per hostage. That is why we're seeing that total of 200. Among them, 121 were charged with at least one life sentence. At least 79 serving high sentences. And we are expecting 70 of them to be deported.
But again, in terms of the process of their release, we're still unclear on the timings. Of course, last week we saw a significant delay in Palestinian prisoners being released following the release of hostages. It took hours, into the early hours of the next morning, actually, before we saw that take place.
We are seeing some movement here right now outside the Ofer prison, a line of at least a dozen Israeli military vehicles just ahead of the gate out of the prison. What we've been told by the Israeli forces on the ground here in the Ofer prison is that they expect to try and clear the area around the prison.
So this hill where we are now, where there's press and also people gathered to watch that moment of release, they expect to clear that area first before we see any buses carrying prisoners actually moving onwards into the occupied West Bank.
And that is certainly what we saw last week late at night, the area being cleared forcibly by Israeli forces with tear gas and stun grenades up on this hill. So we may see that later on today.
Whether we see these Israeli military vehicles moving on forward, we're waiting to see that. But again, it could also be a long process.
And, of course, what we also saw last week is, once that release had taken place, Israeli forces essentially blocked roads around the central area where we are, now again targeting civilians with tear gas in an attempt to block those roads and disperse the crowds.
But, of course, hundreds had gathered in the central part of the city of Beitunia to welcome the release of prisoners.
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And, of course, this week is a little different. Last week, the majority of prisoners being released were women. There were at least nine minors as well, children under the age of 18, being released last weekend. Many of them had been detained under administrative detention, meaning no charges had been laid against them.
Today is very different, of course, at least 121, as I mentioned, serving life sentences. Dozens of them serving serious charges, of course, time in prison. So it is a little different this weekend.
But again, whether we see this process moving smoothly today remains to be seen. There was certainly a lot of delay last week. But the hope is that this earlier release of Israeli hostages will lead to an early release of those Palestinian prisoners, 14 of whom are, important to note, are actually from the Gaza Strip.
And as I mentioned, 70 set to be deported.
BRUNHUBER: Yes. And when we look at previous releases, Nada, take us through what kind of condition we can expect the prisoners to be in and possibly some of their experiences within prison and being as they were being released.
BRUNHUBER: Well, look, Kim, the harsh conditions faced by Palestinians in Israeli jails has been widely documented by numerous human rights organizations and NGOs, including Israeli NGOs.
The U.N. human rights office in July of last year issued a report in which it recounted and detailed the abuses and violations faced by Palestinians in Israeli jails. And that is certainly something that we've been hearing from a number of the prisoners released last week.
And we spoke to many women last weekend who spoke of the violations against their rights as prisoners but also their privacy as women. They -- a lot of them spoke about restrictions on food, on water, on essential medication and also on essential hygiene products as well.
They talked about being taunted and mocked by prison guards. They also talked about frequent strip searches taking place within the prison.
And, of course, while the conditions while in detention were certainly harsh, what we've also been hearing from many of those who were released last weekend is that the actual transfer process on the day of the exchange was also extremely difficult.
What is essential to note here is that not all of them have been held in the Ofer prison. They are held in other prisons and then they are then transferred here, where they are then coordinated with the International Committee of the Red Cross to be released. Many of the women we spoke to last week said that the transfer was extremely difficult, that it took hours. They were handcuffed, blindfolded, dragged across the ground on the prison grounds at one point and then made to watch a 90-second Israeli propaganda video on a loop for hours on end, outside in the cold, in thin layers.
Essentially telling them that this is not a victory for the Palestinians, that the Israeli military has killed in Gaza, in Yemen, in Syria as well and in Lebanon. So this is what we've been hearing from some of those prisoners who have already been released.
Important to note, of course, that we have reached out to the Israeli prison service. They have said that they are not aware of any such claims, that their prison guards and officers operate under Israeli law and that Palestinians have the right to issue and file a complaint.
But again, these allegations are widespread amongst the prisoners released. And, of course, the mistreatment and abuse of Palestinians within Israeli jails prior to any of the cease-fire discussions, prior to October 7th, has been widely documented.
So it is something that, of course, is widely known but something that we are hearing quite a lot from the Palestinian prisoners being released as part of this exchange agreement.
BRUNHUBER: All right. I appreciate getting your reporting there outside Ofer prison, Nada Bashir, thank you so much.
All right. Well, here is where things stand right now with the breaking news in Gaza.
The Israeli military says it now has custody of the four Israeli hostages that Hamas released just a short time ago. So here was the scene a little while before, when they were about to be transferred to the Red Cross in Gaza.
They are now back in Israel at an Israeli military base and will be taken to a hospital. And in exchange, as we mentioned, Israel is expected to release 200 Palestinian prisoners.
I want to go live now to London and Jasmine El-Gamal, former Pentagon Middle East adviser and Middle East analyst.
I really appreciate getting your insights in what is taking place right now.
Every successful exchange that we see, does it generate any sense of optimism that things can progress to the next stage?
JASMINE EL-GAMAL, MIDDLE EAST POLICY ANALYST; FORMER PENTAGON MIDDLE EAST ADVISOR: Good morning, Kim, and thank you so much for having me this morning.
I think optimism probably is a strong word. I mean, I think that, as your correspondents were just laying out really well, the mix of emotions is really -- is really intense. I mean, you have obviously feelings of joy and relief on one hand, getting the both, you know, the Palestinian and Israeli individuals back to their homes.
But I think there's a lot of fear and trepidation and cautious anticipation in terms of what comes next.
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You know, as we've talked about before, the last several days and weeks leading up to the ceasefire deal, the first phase was always going to be the least complicated. And that's saying a lot, because already we've seen complications in this first phase, whether its lists of hostages not being the right lists or the lists that were agreed on.
The timing of the releases have been not exactly what they were supposed to be but those are minor sort of complications. The really big issues are set to come about when the negotiations start between Israel and Hamas, through the mediators, over the second phase and the third phase of the ceasefire deal.
Because that's when the more complicated issues start to come up, that certain prisoners that Hamas is insisting on to come out of prisons, you're going to start to see sort of, you know, more dangerous, more criminal individuals being released.
And then it's going to be a time for Israel to make greater concessions in terms of their military presence and military operations in Gaza. And so those are the phases that people are really worried about coming up. Momentarily, though, like you said, there is a lot of relief and joy for the moment.
BRUNHUBER: The exchange, as we saw playing out on TV, was stage managed by Hamas as a as a piece of propaganda theater. We saw images of Hamas gathered there, many of them armed.
What message do you think that sent to the region, to Hamas allies and to Israel as well?
EL-GAMAL: Right. The message is clear, of course. Hamas is trying to project an image of power. They're trying to project an image of control, that they are still there, that Israel has not, in fact, won, that this is not a victory for them.
You see them, you know, surrounding the hostages. You see them really trying to project this image of control. It's very important in their minds to show that this ceasefire deal was not a victory for Israel, much like the Israeli right wing and prime minister Netanyahu is trying not to portray this as a loss for Israel.
But this is this is a victory for them, too, in terms of getting back the hostages. Both sides are going to be attempting to speak to their publics and show that what they did was actually best for them, not for the enemy. And so that's what we're seeing right now when we're looking at these images of Hamas.
BRUNHUBER: So in speaking with an expert in the last hour, we were talking about how seeing these successful images of hostages being released might up the pressure on Netanyahu to progress to the next phase and so on. But I want to get at the U.S. pressure that is being exerted by president Trump as well.
Do you expect him to exert a lot of pressure?
And what can he actually do in order to try and get Netanyahu to getting to the next phase, which, as you point out, is going to be much more difficult as he faces so much pushback from the right wing?
EL-GAMAL: That's right. And we've been hearing mixed messages coming out of Israel, where minister Smotrich, for example, finance minister Smotrich, has been talking about concessions that he's received from prime minister Netanyahu about that second phase, being able to return to war after the first phase is done.
At the same time, the U.S., through the new special envoy for the Middle East, Steve Witkoff, they are trying to project this image of concern, of commitment to the cease-fire deal.
Witkoff has said, in fact, that he will be traveling to the region, that he will be at some of those areas where Palestinians are going back to their homes in Gaza to make sure that the cease-fire deal is being implemented.
He has talked about how this cease-fire deal should be the beginning of a peace process that eventually spreads throughout the whole region. I mean, the words that we're hearing from the Trump administration and from particularly Steve Witkoff are encouraging.
But you know, the parties are so entrenched, both Hamas and prime minister Netanyahu and the right wing in Israel, they are so entrenched in their positions. As I said, each side is going to be trying to portray this as a victory for them and a loss for the other.
[05:40:00]
Which is going, as you said, to put pressure on each side to try to project strength through the next few weeks. And that's where, you know, that's where I worry that the deal starts to break down.
If either party feels pressured to project that strength, if they think that they're being viewed as losers of this deal in -- whether it's domestically within their publics or internationally -- that they try to do something to reexert control again.
But I do believe that president Trump and his team are going to be trying to make that effort. And we can't forget, of course, the other guarantors of this agreement, Qatar and Egypt, who are going to be also watching this very closely and making sure that both parties adhere to their commitments.
BRUNHUBER: All right. Listen, always great to get your expert analysis on everything that's playing out right now, Jasmine el-Gamal. Thank you so much.
EL-GAMAL: Thanks for having me.
BRUNHUBER: All right. I want to bring in Daniel Levy, president of the U.S.-Middle East Project, who joins us from London.
You've been watching this all play out here, these joyous scenes that we've seen in Tel Aviv and the emotion from the families of the hostages who've been released. Just give me your impression of what you've been seeing through the last couple of hours.
DANIEL LEVY, PRESIDENT, U.S.-MIDDLE EAST PROJECT: Well, yes, Kim, I mean, huge emotions, huge relief for the families, for the for girls coming out. Palestinians in Gaza now coming to the end of a first week without this indiscriminate bombing that has led to tens of thousands being killed.
From tomorrow, according to the deal, people will be able to, I would say, go to their homes in northern Gaza. Virtually all of those have been destroyed but they can see what remains and at least be back in that environment which they were used to living in.
Palestinian prisoners will be released later. Alongside that came, as we've been hearing and as you've been drawing your viewers' attention to, is the palpable fragility of all of this. Yet the mediators every minute are working.
Qatar totally across this, along with the Egyptians, to try and keep this on track. We see inside the Israeli government those factions who have said we have to return to war or you have no coalition. Mr. Netanyahu. Netanyahu himself has committed to that.
We see the provocations simultaneously in the West Bank, not part of this deal but something that could easily create a much more different environment, whether that's Jenin, the epicenter of the Israeli military action, thousands there being removed; destruction of infrastructure, more Palestinians arrested, dispossessed, more closures.
And today was a good day, Kim. But we can expect, I think -- it's almost a given that, in some of these future release days, it won't be smiling, waving people. It will be dead bodies.
And also every day Palestinians are going to be pulling dead women, children, men out of the rubble as that death toll goes up even further. So an awful lot that still needs to be done in order for more days like today to be witnessed in the future.
BRUNHUBER: Yes. Today, as you say, a good day. And even in a good day, we've seen hiccups in every exchange so far but certainly nothing compared to what we're going to see as we try to get to the next phases.
Are -- is your impression that we will get there, do you think?
Or, I mean, you certainly are projecting that you are skeptical, let's say, that that we will be able to get to a second phase.
LEVY: I think that that realistic skepticism is called for. Look, the point here is, Kim -- and I think Netanyahu was well aware of it. And it's one of the reasons why, despite everything we were told, that Hamas was the obstacle, it's been very transparent the extent to which Netanyahu was the primary obstacle.
One of the reasons is he knew that once a dynamic, once a momentum of a deal is in motion, it will be more difficult to control. That's partly to do with the dynamic inside Israel, as they see living Israelis coming home. They want to see this through, most Israelis, not all.
And this unpredictability of the Trump administration factor, so those things are going to be very much at the forefront of whether this continues or not. But if one just steps back for a moment and looks at those images today from Gaza of the release, it -- a couple of things struck me first.
And, of course, they were the people who were holding the Israelis in the first place. But there seemed a certain pride on the Palestinian side, the Hamas side. Friends of mine who follow this tell me that people who, from their geolocation, were clearly in Gaza were on Telegram saying, "See."
[05:45:06]
Despite the starvation here, we kept them alive. There was certain pride in that. I would contrast that to some of the Israeli insistence, within political circles, of returning to the killing.
But it also told me that the idea that what you didn't achieve in militarily, that this idea of total victory, military victory, Hamas being vanquished, that is not going to happen. It is pure fantasy. By the way, it never happens that a resistance is crushed when a people live without freedom under occupation.
So there is going to have to be a great deal of realism when it comes to what can be achieved in negotiations. It can't be achieved militarily. It will need to be achieved in negotiations.
And I also looked at this, Kim, and thought, what a powerful reminder of how intertwined the fates of Palestinians and Israelis are.
And will those fates be condemned to more war, more slaughter?
Because unless we get to the root cause where Palestinians finally have their freedom, there's finally an end to occupation, there's finally an end to the denial of those rights, the decades of dispossession, unless we ultimately -- I'm not saying that happens now in these negotiations.
But unless we ultimately deal with those things, neither Palestinians nor Israelis will know that security.
BRUNHUBER: Yes. I'm sure that's true. Getting to that stage, of course, as you say, so hard for both sides to realize that unfortunately. We'll leave it.
Actually, I did want to ask you one more question before we go. I've been talking about what pressure the U.S. and other countries in the region can exert on both sides here to get to that point.
What levers do you think they have after these months and months of negotiations to get them there, to get them to that second phase and possibly to a third one?
LEVY: Kim, we both know that the U.S. has tremendous leverage on Israel. On the other side of that ledger, there's been -- I'm not saying they're an easy negotiating partner but there has been a consistency to the Hamas position that, if we stick to the terms that are actually agreed -- the details haven't been fleshed out. But if you want to finish this deal, get all the Israelis out, then
there will ultimately be a full Israeli military withdrawal. There will be all the releases. There will be the Palestinian prisoners released. Palestinians will be allowed to move around Gaza.
Hamas have even said, look, we don't intend to continue governing Gaza after this. The needs of Gaza, especially now, mean that you will need an authority that the international community can deal with.
But it won't be an authority premised on, in position without Hamas' agreement and demilitarization, because that never happens when there is still an overall envelope of occupation.
Therefore, I think the focus will have to be on, can you get Israel to accept this realistic, necessary outcome?
And there, the primary, of course, factor will be the U.S., the Trump administration. And here, look, Trump has rescinded the restrictions, the sanctions on Israeli settlers. We've heard what some of the nominees, the U.N. ambassador nominated, Stefanik, has said, what the ambassador nominate to Israel, Huckabee has said.
But that's not the only dynamic in the Trump administration. Those folks, the history of the Trump first term, much of the Republican ecosystem is no friend of Palestinians or peace and very much aligns with those hard line factors in the Israeli government who believe in removing the Palestinians and believe all of this is great for Israel.
But there are others there who do not want America to waste its time, its resources, its attention, its international reputation in more Middle Eastern wars. And it's going to be the tensions and the cracks between "Make America great again" and "Make Israel great again," which may -- and this is super tentative, Kim.
But may give a path where, at least on this question of the ceasefire, they hold Netanyahu's feet to the fire and we can get to a permanent arrangement.
BRUNHUBER: Yes. Let's hope so. Always appreciate speaking with you, Daniel Levy. Thank you so much.
All right. I want to go now to CNN's Paula Hancocks, who joins us live from Abu Dhabi.
And, Paula, we're hearing now from the prime minister's office, from Netanyahu's office, about repercussions.
[05:50:04]
About a failure to live up to the conditions of the release that we saw today. Take us through what was said and the importance of this.
HANCOCKS: Well, Kim, this was a statement from, as you say, the prime minister Benjamin Netanyahu's office.
Saying that, until one particular civilian, Arbel Yehud, who's a 29 year old female civilian who was captured from the kibbutz Nir Oz on 7th of October, until she is released, Palestinians will not be allowed to move back to their homes or what's left of their homes in northern Gaza.
Now there was an understanding within this ceasefire, according to the Israeli side, that civilians would be released first. And Yehud was one of the names that Israel believed would be released today. And they were surprised last night when they discovered that wasn't to be the case.
There were negotiations between the prime minister, his defense minister, the negotiation team to try and figure out whether they should still go forward with today's hostage deal. Now ultimately, they decided that they would.
But they believe that this is a problem. We've heard as well from the IDF spokesperson saying that Hamas failed to meet its obligations to return civilians first. And it's not just Yehud that they are talking about.
They're also talking about a family, the Bibas family, who have become well known throughout this ordeal because the -- they had two children. There is Shiri Bibas, who would have been expected to have been released, if not at this point but in the first round back in November 2023, and two young children.
Now it is not known of their condition at this point. But the Israeli side is certainly pushing Hamas, saying that they have not met their obligations under this ceasefire and that they should have been released first. And Arbel Yehud should have been released first.
So the repercussion on the Palestinian side is that those Palestinians from northern Gaza, who had been moved out of the area when Israel started its military operations, they are now no longer able to return home.
There had been a deal that, after a week, they would be able to go back and see what was left of their neighborhoods, of their homes. But that has now been put on hold until Arbel Yehud is released.
So we can see that, even within what appears on the face of it to be a positive day, a positive moment when four Israeli hostages are released, there are still significant stumbling blocks within this ceasefire hostage deal. And this is one of the ones that has become very noticeable today.
So that will have repercussions. It will have an impact on those Palestinians, unable now to go back to their homes in northern Gaza. Kim.
BRUNHUBER: All right. I appreciate that reporting. Paula Hancocks in Abu Dhabi, thank you so much.
I want to explore this more now with former IDF international spokesperson, Lt. Col. Peter Lerner.
Thank you so much for being here with us. So you saw the prime minister's office statement there.
Why is Israel not allowing Gazans to return north?
And so many will be, you know, on their way back home.
How will Israel stop them?
LT. COL. PETER LERNER, FORMER IDF INTERNATIONAL SPOKESPERSON: Thanks.
I think, first of all, it's a great opportunity to weigh on that seconds that and the dramatic images of our soldiers being brought back home to Israel. And it is, of course, they're being brought home in the framework of an agreement.
And that agreement specifically stipulated that the civilians will be brought back home first. And Israel and, I think the prime minister's message, was very, very clear, that the arrangements to bring back Arbel Yehud need to be set in place in order for us to continue with everything that was agreed upon.
So, of course, if Hamas are interested in restoring -- and for us to continue, we need to bring back the hostages. That is what the agreement is requiring and that is what we're expecting.
BRUNHUBER: So but to the second part of my question, I mean, how is Israel actually going to stop Gazans who will presumably already be going back to their homes, expecting to go back?
LERNER: Well, we've sent out very clear messages that the people should not approach the forces. It is dangerous. There is still combat and it is a combat zone and the war is ongoing.
We have held our fire but we are not stepping down from the stipulations of the agreement. And that is what we expect. Hamas have to be very, very clear. They have to release.
[05:55:00]
They have to enable the conditions and the arrangements in order to proceed in the agreement. It is not a one-sided agreement. The civilians need to be brought home. That is what they stipulated.
And they circumvented it by yesterday and today basically just sending the soldiers. Of course, we're happy that the soldiers are back home but we expect the civilians and specifically Arbel Yehud to be brought back home as soon as possible.
BRUNHUBER: So does that mean, without the, at least the promise of the return of Arbel Yehud, you, Israel won't be proceeding with any other part of the agreement?
LERNER: The prime minister's office was very, very clear in their message. What we've seen in the last few minutes was a clear message. If you want us to proceed, you need to proceed with your commitments. They did not uphold the commitment. Arbel Yehud needed to be brought home. We put out a message well beforehand that that's what we expect
because she is a civilian, because that's what required. And unfortunately, they did not fulfill.
BRUNHUBER: So does that essentially mean we are at an impasse here, that all of the families who will presumably have been celebrating the return of the hostages, who were returned, of the four young women who are expecting next Saturday a release of other hostages, is that now on hold, that they may have to wait longer?
LERNER: I certainly hope not. I think the ball now is in Hamas' hands. If they want to proceed, they have to supply the components of the agreement. Arbel Yehud needs to be brought home. That was the condition as we stipulated.
And as we've been talking about, since the ceasefire and the agreement were declared, civilians need to be brought home first. This is what we require. Now we are looking forward.
And, of course, as you're seeing the images coming out of Israel, this morning, the very, very, you know, powerful moments of the four soldiers standing on the stage there, jubilant and defiant in the face of Hamas. And as they brought home today, we will be, of course, learning a lot from what they've endured and hearing their stories.
And I think this is just emphasizes the need to bring all of the hostages home. And this agreement has specific pieces and components that need to be complied by both sides. You can't expect just Israel to give and not receive what we're expecting. Arbel Yehud needs to come home.
BRUNHUBER: Has Hamas supplied any explanation of why that wasn't done?
LERNER: So I can't really go into the specifics at this stage. Of course, the -- we are engaging with the mediators and negotiators in order to fulfill this -- these components of -- the different components of the agreement. We are very determined. We are standing by our commitments.
And that is why, as we said, if we demand and expect the civilians to come home, as the agreement stipulated, then that should have (INAUDIBLE) what had happened this morning. Unfortunately, that's not the situation. We'll be checking our steps moving forward.
Of course, the forces will maintain their positions, their defensive positions. And we've sent a very clear message not to approach them.
BRUNHUBER: Hamas was as well trying to presumably send a message the way they stage managed the release of those four hostages, sending what they would consider a message of strength with, you know, a number of armed fighters all lined up.
They're sending a message that Israel has not destroyed Hamas, as the prime minister had had vowed to do.
What's your response to their very visual propaganda message that they were sending today?
LERNER: It's exactly that. It is a propaganda message orchestrated in order to exert maximum, I would say, pain on Israel to try and send a, I would say, a misinformed message to the people of Gaza. There is no victory in their images, just false claims and a way of manipulating public sentiment within the Gaza Strip.
I'd be very, very cautious at celebrating the situation in Gaza. It is a state of war that Hamas brought on themselves. And the attempt to try and claim victory is a ridiculous and, I would say, miserable attempt.
You know, the people have paid the price of their poor leadership and how they have committed these grave crimes against Israel and brought this devastation and tragedy on the people of Gaza. Our response to this is very clear. We did not ask for this war but we have the tools and we are determined to bring back the hostages.
[06:00:00]
And there are two ways to do that, basically, either through the negotiations or through military operations. We're at a stage today where negotiations are developing, the return of hostages, not all according to the agreement as I talked about just a few minutes ago.
BRUNHUBER: Right.
LERNER: But we expect --
(CROSSTALK)
BRUNHUBER: We will have to -- we will have to leave it there just because we are going against the end of the hour. But Peter Lerner, thank you so much for speaking with us.
And we really appreciate all of you watching our breaking news out of Gaza. Coming up now on "CNN THIS MORNING," more on this developing situation.
I'm Kim Brunhuber, thank you so much for watching. Please stay with us.
