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Passenger Jet and Black Hawk Helicopter Collide in Midair; Fatalities Confirmed After Plane-Helicopter Collision. Aired 4-4:30a ET

Aired January 30, 2025 - 04:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[04:00:00]

ANNOUNCER: This is CNN Breaking News.

OMAR JIMENEZ, CNN ANCHOR: Welcome, everyone. I'm Omar Jimenez. You're watching CNN NEWSROOM.

The latest now in the breaking news we've been covering all night here in the United States, the midair collision between an American Airlines passenger plane and a U.S. military Black Hawk helicopter that was on a training mission. Now, sources say there were fatalities, but we don't know yet if anyone has survived.

What we do know, 67 people were on board total between the two aircraft that collided over the Potomac River near Reagan National Airport. Most were on an American Airlines passenger plane flying from Wichita, Kansas, to Washington, D.C., and three military personnel were traveling in the Army helicopter. It's too soon to know what caused the collision, but according to air traffic control audio, the chopper pilot reported that he had the plane in sight shortly before the collision.

Thirteen seconds later, gasps were heard on the recording. Here's the exchange.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

AIR TRAFFIC CONTROLLER: PAT 2-5 do you have the CRJ in sight?

AIR TRAFFIC CONTROLLER: PAT 2-5 pass behind the CRJ.

AIR TRAFFIC CONTROLLER: (INAUDIBLE) Oooh.

AIR TRAFFIC CONTROLLER: I don't know if you caught earlier what happened, but there was a collision on the approaching 3-3.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

JIMENEZ: And we're also getting a ground level view of the collision from a camera at Reagan National. You see that fireball in the sky as the two aircraft approach each other and then, of course, collided.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP) SEN. ROGER MARSHALL (R-KS): My prayers for these families. It's a heartache beyond belief when so many people die simultaneously. It's just a tragedy. And my heart just aches. It aches.

These aren't constituents. These are friends. These are family members. I'm not sure who was on the flight that I know, but I know there'll be many that I did.

And I just want those know that we're here doing everything we can. I wish there was more that I could do, but we're going to be here for you. We're going to be here with you and help you get through this. And we're just mourning with each and every one of you.

It's been hours now with that plane upside down in the water, divers in there. And I'm so grateful for the rescuers risking their lives really on a dark, cold night as well. So thank you to those people. But it's not a good situation here.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

JIMENEZ: And it's been more than seven hours since that collision. And at this point, no official confirmation of fatalities yet, really. And authorities have scheduled another news conference for 7:30 a.m. local time, about three and a half hours from now. I want to bring in Gabe Cohen, who joins us from Washington. And, Gabe, you've been reporting on this really since the immediate aftermath of this crash. And you asked one of the fire officials how they balance investigative efforts with, of course, trying to find people that may have survived this crash.

What did they tell you?

GABE COHEN, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Yes, D.C.'s fire chief pretty immediately responded and said they prioritize life above all else. And so they are going to complete this search and rescue mission to the best of their ability in those brutal conditions out there on the water. And they are confident that the evidence will still be there as this investigation really gets underway. But they said the search and rescue just has to come first.

And look, we drove out to the scene just minutes after this happened as it was really developing, seeing dozens, if not hundreds of law enforcement vehicles, officers on the bridges around the area shining flashlights into the water. And it was really as those first responders began to get the first images from the water, from their rescuers who are out there in boats and the divers who are in the water, that they began to realize just how grim this situation was.

Images of that plane, like the one on your screen, just broken into pieces in the Potomac, the helicopter upside down, bobbing up and down in the water, creating a really unstable and dangerous situation for the divers who are out there looking for survivors. And as you mentioned, at this point, at now four in the morning Eastern time, no survivors have been found in the water. We do know that there have been fatalities, that they have pulled some of the people who died in the crash out of the Potomac. [04:05:00]

But the operation is continuing, though with a somber tone, knowing that at some point this will turn most likely from a search and rescue operation into a recovery effort. And you heard the senator there from Kansas who was talking about the emotional side of things, how hard this is going to hit the community in Wichita, where that plane took off from before heading to D.C. And it's going to hit a lot of people here in the nation's capital. We know that family members of people who are on board that flight came to the airport, came to Reagan National to pick people up, to pick up their friends and their family members, only to arrive to find out this news with officials then setting up an airport lounge with counselors who met with those families, who helped them through this, providing information. And we know that is going to be a long road for them, as this is just night one of all of this unfolding.

But you can still see that scene on your screen, the search and rescue operation still unfolding with countless agencies from across this region, still people on the water searching for survivors, divers underneath the surface, where you really can't see much more than a few inches in front of your face in those icy, choppy conditions.

Officials have said they expect this could be the deadliest disaster here in Washington in decades. And now, once this search and rescue operation is finished, the focus will really turn to the investigation that will be led by the NTSB. And there will be a lot of questions.

But Omar, as you mentioned off the top, all of that has really been put to the side. That's what officials said during the press conference earlier, because they wanted to focus on the people who are in the water right now and the effort to get them out.

JIMENEZ: Look, it's no, no winners really here in this situation, as of course, so many families at this point hoping for the best, maybe preparing to hear the worst. Gabe Cohen, really appreciate the reporting.

I want to expand this conversation now with CNN transportation analyst Mary Schiavo. She's the former inspector general at the U.S. Transportation Department. And going off of what Gabe just said a little, a few moments ago, where do you start as a first responder, as an investigator for a scene like this?

MARY SCHIAVO, CNN TRANSPORTATION ANALYST: Well, the first responders obviously always start with saving lives, looking for the humans, trying to save every life that they possibly can. They're selfless individuals. But the investigation, of course, has already started.

The investigation starts by preserving everything that they already have, the air traffic control tapes. They have already statements from several witnesses. They have eyewitness statements. They have video. They have a lot of communications that they have been able to recover and save. And they have eyewitness reports. The GO teams are already there. And what's interesting about an accident, while they're all just

horrific and interesting, but here you're going to have the NTSB and you're also going to have the military investigation. Military has their own investigation division, much like the NTSB, but they will have to work together.

The NTSB will take the priority role by law. It's a civilian airliner. But the Defense Department does have their own defense investigation agency, and they do lots of investigations every year because obviously they do lose some military helicopters.

So already the investigation is rolling. It's just that front and center right now is dealing with the human life on board the two aircraft.

JIMENEZ: And look, I mean, we are more than seven hours after the point of impact, and obviously we've been showing the live images of first responders still working through what officials have called to this point a search and rescue operation. Seven hours in, what do you assess as the state of where we are in either first responder efforts or in regards to any initial investigation? I guess my question is, what is your outlook right now based on what we know so far?

SCHIAVO: Well, I certainly feel for the families and also the first responders. So they don't want to say this is a recovery operation now. And you know, that's probably important for everyone involved.

But there are lots of charts and tables and studies that show what the time after an accident, what the time in cold water gives you for, you know, sustainability of life. And hypothermia can set in very, very quickly.

I flew into DCA last night about 7:30. It was cold, it was windy, it was very dark. And that water is unforgiving when it's cold. And even in water that you think is warm, in some Caribbean locations when, you know, in the wintertime, you cannot survive, you know, more than a few minutes.

So sometimes they say the window is perhaps up to an hour if the water's warm, more than that.

[04:10:00]

But the hypothermia charts say that this is sadly past the time when people could survive hypothermia.

JIMENEZ: Yes. Look, it's a grim limbo that I'm sure many families are in right now, where we don't have official word. But of course, there's a lot of science that doesn't put good fortune on their sides at a moment like this.

Based on what we know from the flight path, and of course, what we've heard from the air traffic control tower, and from cell phone video on the ground at this point, what are your initial impressions of what happened here? SCHIAVO: Well, my initial impressions, of course, come from, you know, what the world has seen, mostly through the recordings and through the eyewitness videos and eyewitness accounts. But air traffic control, first of all, we have to say this is a totally controlled airspace.

You cannot fly into the DCA airspace unless you are totally under air traffic control. It's instrument flight rules, whether that's severe, clear, or bad weather. Anybody operating in that vicinity had to coordinate with air traffic control. And we know that happened here because air traffic control talked to the helicopter and said, do you have this aircraft in flight?

Now, what's interesting is there were other aircraft, and you can see it on the video, there were other aircraft in the vicinity. So I wonder, I certainly don't know, but I wonder perhaps when the helicopter reported that they did have the flight in sight, that they were actually seeing another helicopter.

And, you know, I've been working in aviation a very long time. And I remember an accident, the Senator Hines accident, which was a plane and a helicopter. And the helicopter got too close to an aircraft, the aircraft, and actually sucked the aircraft towards the helicopter. I'm not saying that happened here.

But there are a lot of things that can go wrong when you have too many aircraft in a very close airspace. And that is DCA. DCA is just a very busy airport, which, when Dulles Airport opened decades ago, was supposed to close because it was too close to the city. It was very crowded, and Dulles was supposed to take its place.

But obviously, everyone loves the airport so close to DC. But it is one of the runways, it's the busiest runway in the country. And we put a lot of planes and we put a lot of aviation in a tiny little spit of land next to our nation's capital.

So I think the air traffic control tapes and the videos may give the investigators tremendous hints as to what happened. But of course, they will have much more. They'll have the black boxes. They'll have command reports from the Army. They'll have many more transmissions that could have been sent by the plane to the airline.

And of course, remember, the airline under federal law must have its own disaster assistance team. And so the airline behind the scenes has already put its disaster assistance team in place to assist these families. So a lot's going on behind the scenes as well.

JIMENEZ: And as we show live pictures of the scene to this point, I mean, these hundreds of first responders have been working in the dark in these frigid temperatures, trying to do everything they can to provide some answers to some of these families that, of course, are anxiously waiting. Mary Schiavo, really appreciate the time perspective. Thanks for being here.

SCHIAVO: Thank you.

JIMENEZ: As we've been talking about, temperatures in the Potomac River are currently hovering around 35 degrees Fahrenheit, just above one degree Celsius, according to the National Weather Service. And at that temperature in the water, a person might lose their physical abilities in as little as three minutes and become unconscious within 15 to 30 minutes, not to mention hypothermia and other dangers that usually increase with prolonged exposure.

As we're learning, U.S. figure skating confirms that several members of the skating community were on board American Airlines Flight 5342.

The group says in a statement: These athletes, coaches and family members were returning home from the National Development Camp in Wichita, Kansas. We are devastated by this unspeakable tragedy and hold the victims' families closely in our hearts. We will continue to monitor the situation and we'll release more information as it becomes available.

And the Russian news agency TASS cites a source who says two world champion Russian skaters were also on the plane.

And if you believe you may have -- have loved ones on board American Airlines Flight 5342, there's a number you can call toll free 800-679- 8215 for more information. If you're in the United States, Canada, Puerto Rico or the U.S. Virgin Islands, or you can visit American Airlines website at news.aa.com for more phone numbers.

[04:15:00]

All right, when we come back, we're going to have the latest on the breaking news, of course, the search for survivors after that collision between a passenger plane and a military helicopter in the U.S. capital. Stay with us.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

ARI SCHULMAN, WITNESS TO COLLISION: It was banked all the way to the right, I would say maybe past the right past 90 degrees. I could see the underside of it. It was lit up a very bright yellow and there was a stream of sparks underneath it. It looked like a Roman candle.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

[04:20:00]

JIMENEZ: You've been listening to a witness describe what he saw when a passenger jet collided with a military helicopter just hours ago in the U.S. capital. A massive search and rescue effort is underway.

These are live pictures you're seeing here involving hundreds of emergency personnel. 60 passengers and four crew members were on American Airlines flight 5342. It was inbound from Wichita, Kansas just before 9:00 p.m. Eastern time. A crew of three was in the U.S. Army Black Hawk helicopter, which was on a training mission.

Now, despite hours of frantic efforts, rescuers still haven't pulled any survivors from the water. And a source tells CNN there are confirmed fatalities. U.S. Figure Skating says several members of its skating community were on that flight. Russian state media add that two world champion skaters from Russia were also on the flight as well.

I want to bring in Richard Quest, CNN airline and aviation correspondent, who is with us from London.

And Richard, I mean, look, say flying overall incredibly safe. However, when you see a situation like this, how does the airline industry react? How does the wider aviation industry react to something like this?

RICHARD QUEST, CNN AVIATION CORRESPONDENT (via phone): Obviously, with a great deal of sorrow and sadness, even though everybody in the industry realizes and knows that accidents and fatalities are an inherent part of this, it doesn't make it any easier when it happens because for the simple reason so much time, money and expense and blood, sweat and tears is put into the industry to avoid exactly this.

But that all said, they will approach this with a calmness and determination and a rigor to actually work out what happened. This is not the time to be running around screaming and getting excited about it.

From the industry's point of view, you start by looking and saying, OK, which aircraft was doing what at exactly, you know, in the immediate moments before the accident? Who was being told what to do? What did air traffic control say?

And on this particular case, we do have a pretty good idea. I mean, we have the American Eagle small plane coming into land at quite a late moment, not unusual, but late on it is asked, can you change runways from runway one to runway 33, which it says, yes, I can. Runway 33 is a lot shorter. This was a small plane, so it could. A thousand and one reasons why that might have been necessary for traffic management. And then you hear the helicopter being asked, do you see the Canadair regional jet? The helicopter seems to say yes and is then referred to go behind it. And then they have the accident.

So, you know, within the short story that I've told you, there you have the seeds of what happened and there you have the explanation once you actually drill down into who was told what to do and when to do it.

JIMENEZ: And even within those very crucial details, look, this is -- this is a busy airport, like many across the world. What factors are air traffic controllers, pilots, what are they dealing with in a busy airspace like this? How different is it from a much calmer, smaller town airport?

QUEST: Sheer numbers, sheer numbers of ATMs, air traffic movements. That's what this is all about. So you have multiple runways at National Airport or Reagan National. You have multiple runways. You have civil aviation traffic, commercial traffic entering and departing. You have general aviation. That's private jets leaving, departing and arriving. And then you have military traffic. And there is a heck of a lot of it

going up and down the Potomac, never mind the presidential flights, which are also involved in all of this. But the helicopters tend to go up and down the Potomac. They tend to follow the route of the river because the Pentagon is just on the other side of it. You've got joint based Andrews not that far away. So you have an enormous amount of traffic crisscrossing each other.

By the way, Reagan National has one of the most stomach churning approaches of any airport for commercial passengers on one particular runway coming into land. You do a very, very sharp late right turn just as you pass the Washington Monument. It's quite a normal arrival procedure. But for passengers not familiar with it, it can be a little stomach churning.

[04:25:00]

So here you have an extremely busy, very experienced, very well managed airport. And I think what you're going to find here, this isn't like the Florida crash of many years ago with de-icing or anything like that, technical failures. I don't foresee any issues of those. This is going to be a clearcut case of air traffic management in one shape or another.

Who was told to be where and who was confused or understood where the other aircraft was, because, you know, as the president said last night, this shouldn't have happened. Somebody was where they shouldn't supposed to be. But it will be very quickly established as to what went wrong.

JIMENEZ: And even alongside the investigative efforts as we continue to watch these first responders on the frigid Potomac River right now, many of these airlines, they also have victim services. I mean, they are the ones that will likely be the front lines of interfacing with these families. What types of services are typically available and how do airlines try and approach delicate situations like these?

QUEST: I'm glad you asked because it is not spoken of, but it is absolutely there. And every airline has a major incident plan. They practice it.

American Airlines, I know absolutely has exactly this. And there is a special room at the American headquarters in Dallas where when you have a major incident like this, everybody goes into the room. It is depending on the airline, it is made up of concentric circles where the people managing the crash and the crisis are in the center and all their assistants and all the other information flow out.

And the information flows in and the information flows out. And the reason they have this is to manage the many -- so let's just take, you know, unfortunately, this first of all, you actually have to manage the information of telling the families.

You have to make sure that you have people on the ground who will be there to assist, to give comfort, to, in some cases, to transport the families of victims who are not there, you know, to bring them in, to make sure that they have the care and comfort, the religious necessities that they may require, all of that away from the public gaze. So that has to be put in place. And it's a well-practiced, very well-managed, exceptionally important part of aviation crisis management.

But you also have to have those people who are running the airline, which has to continue. And the two sides have to work in tandem. You know, American Airlines still has thousands of flights today that it has to get in the air, and it cannot allow the operational side to become distracted by the crash and the crisis.

At the same time, it must ensure that the crash and the crisis is given the seriousness, the attention, those involved, given the care, comfort, and management that they demand and are required. So it is a very practiced.

You notice this particularly in mature, experienced airlines who have this and have people on contract that go into play versus those that -- you know, I always say to every new airline CEO, God forbid, when I ever meet them, I always say, God forbid it ever happens, but you think you're prepared for the day when you lose a plane. I'm telling you, you're not, because it is the most horrendous responsibility when you realize what your company has been involved in.

JIMENEZ: And we've even on the passenger side of things started to see reports of people reading last texts that they sent.

QUEST: That never ever, ever gets any easier. I covered Lockerbie back in the late 1980s, and I had to go to Kennedy Airport to see the relatives of Pan Am 103 who did not know what had happened and were at the airport. And I've seen this on numerous occasions at airports and plane crashes.

It never, ever gets regular, usual or normal, but there is a procedure that has to be put into play. And my heart goes out to everybody this morning that is actually going through that process from the families, from the airline staff, from the religious comforters, from the rescuers who are going to see some awful things in the water. It never gets any easier. Never.

JIMENEZ: Yes. No winners here. Richard Quest, really appreciate the time and perspective.