Return to Transcripts main page

CNN Newsroom

Trump Suggests Relocating All Palestinians in Gaza; U.S. Postal Service Suspends Parcels from China and Hong Kong; El Salvador Offers to House U.S. Felons in Its Prisons. Aired 4:30-5a ET

Aired February 05, 2025 - 04:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[04:30:00]

JEREMY DIAMOND, CNN JERUSALEM CORRESPONDENT: And obviously, this idea of displacing Palestinians also has historic resonance, decades over decades of Palestinians being displaced over the course of this conflict, and that is also why we are seeing countries like Jordan and Egypt, whom President Trump wants to send the Palestinians to these countries, they are also opposing this step, not only because it could potentially be destabilizing to their countries to see so many refugees coming in all at once, but also, of course, because there's tremendous support for the Palestinian cause in their countries, and this would effectively be abdicating that cause, at least as it relates to Gaza.

Now, beyond this issue of the Gaza Strip, President Trump also made significant news, as he indicated that he would be making an announcement in the next four weeks about annexation of the West Bank by the Israeli government. We know, of course, that that is something that the Israeli government has been considering and perhaps something that Prime Minister Netanyahu sought President Trump's support for. Whether or not that is ultimately what he will get remains to be seen.

But there's no question that the Israeli Prime Minister was quite thrilled as he was watching President Trump make all of these comments throughout the day. You see him in the Oval Office there with a very broad smile, as many of President Trump's ideas are coming right out of the playbook of right-wing Israeli politics, and they certainly are being welcomed as such by far-right figures here in Israel.

Jeremy Diamond, CNN, Tel Aviv.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

CHRISTINA MACFARLANE, CNN ANCHOR: Well, for more on this, let's bring in Antony Loewenstein, a journalist and author at the Palestine Laboratory. He joins us live from Sydney, Australia. Antony, thanks for your time.

This was a stunning press conference and critics of this proposed deal, and there are many, are calling this dangerous, reckless, unethical. What do you make of it?

ANTONY LOEWENSTEIN, JOURNALIST: It's all that and more. It's essentially a wish of ethnic cleansing. On the one hand, it's shocking. On the other hand, it's totally unsurprising.

This is really what Trump is proposing with presumably Israeli support or backing or endorsement. It's really an Israeli far-right policy that's existed for years.

In some ways, it started arguably in 1948, the establishment of Israel, but the plan was always from the beginning, from the Israeli Jewish state, to have as few Palestinians as possible in Palestine. That happened in 1948, 1967. It's happening potentially again now. You can't do this all in one go. The Israeli thinking goes, you do it incrementally.

So what Trump is proposing here, putting aside the logistical possibility, would that involve U.S. troops? Would it involve U.S. mercenaries who, I might add, are currently in Gaza, so-called administering the ceasefire, the moving of people from the south to the north of Gaza? And it's unclear where the Palestinians will go. I mean, the Arab countries have said they won't accept them, although I wonder how solid that refusal is if Trump twists their arm.

I mean, if Egypt or Jordan take many more Palestinians, they already have many in their borders, it will hugely destabilize their own country. Israel relies on those dictatorships and client states for its own actions in Palestine.

So many questions, but in some ways, the Israeli right is going to be very excited.

MAX FOSTER, CNN ANCHOR: The one country that does appear to have some sway with Donald Trump is Saudi Arabia. They've obviously spoken out against this. They've got a lot of weight diplomatically, the prince there.

How do you think they're going to play it?

LOEWENSTEIN: Well, publicly, they have to say that, because although MBS, the leader of Saudi, said quite recently that he doesn't particularly have a great deal of fondness for Palestinians, or at least didn't have a particular desire to help them in the past, but he realizes that many of his people, the Saudis, do. It's obviously not a democracy, but he's aware that there's a lot of support for Palestine within his own country.

Look, the Saudis have talked for a long time, frankly, of wanting to normalize with Israel. Yes, they've said that's not going to be possible since the war in Gaza. They came out, I know, in the last 24 hours opposing Trump's plan. But ultimately, Saudi wants what Israel and the U.S. are selling, namely more weapons, security guarantees, and a nuclear capability. They say civilian, but I would fear it would be a military nuclear capability.

[04:35:00]

And I suspect and I fear they would sell Palestinians down the river, as let's be honest, many, many Arab military nuclear capability. And I suspect and I fear they would sell Palestinians down the river. And let's be honest, many, many Arab elites have over the years.

So yes, the Saudis have come out to oppose it, but I would not necessarily trust the paper that it's written on.

MACFARLANE: And all of this, Antony, as we've been saying earlier in the show, serves as a distraction from what really should have been discussed in the White House today, which is the phase two of the ceasefire deal, the extension of a ceasefire. Where does that leave the ceasefire right now? Is this really what Benjamin Netanyahu wanted all along, a distraction from that?

LOEWENSTEIN: I mean, he wanted a distraction. In fact, members of his coalition, including Smotrich, who's a far-right fascist, has come out openly and said that there should not be a round two and Israel should go back in and reoccupy Gaza, although there are still Israeli troops there.

Of course, if there is no second phase of the ceasefire agreement that many Israeli hostages, let alone huge numbers of Palestinian hostages that Israel holds, will not be alive, will not be released, will potentially die or be killed.

So that would be clearly a problem for many Israelis, understanding that they want to get their people out of Gaza. And in some ways, I think the vision of what Netanyahu and Trump is saying, you and I can say that sounds extreme. But in fact, if you look at the Israeli public in poll after poll after poll, before October 7, but certainly since, there is a sizable proportion of the Israeli Jewish public that supports the idea of some kind of removal of Palestinians from Gaza, let alone the West Bank.

This is actually remarkably mainstream in Israel. I'm not saying all Israelis, of course, but it's a remarkably mainstream view, which reflects how extreme and radical the Israeli public has become over the last 20 years.

FOSTER: OK, Antony, in Sydney, thank you so much for that, giving a much wider global perspective to what an extraordinary event last night.

MACFARLANE: Yes, we will wait to see what --

LOEWENSTEIN: Thank you.

MACFARLANE: -- Trump follows through on. Thanks, Antony.

Now, Mexican troops have become heading to the U.S. border as part of the agreement with the Trump administration to pause major U.S. tariffs on Mexico for 30 days.

The deployment of 10,000 Mexican National Guard troops is meant to prevent drugs and migrants from entering the U.S.

FOSTER: Canada also struck a deal to halt U.S. tariffs until March 4, but China did not, and a trade war is brewing. Right now, the 10 percent tariff on Chinese goods took effect a day ago. Beijing announced it would launch retaliatory tariffs on certain American products starting on Tuesday.

MACFARLANE: The U.S. president now says he's in no rush to discuss the tariffs with Chinese President Xi Jinping, saying they'll talk at the appropriate time. On Monday, Donald Trump said he'd be speaking to China within 24 hours.

FOSTER: Meanwhile, the U.S. Postal Service says it'll not accept incoming parcels from China and Hong Kong until further notice. The government agency didn't provide a reason for the temporary suspension, but said the flow of letters will not be affected.

MACFARLANE: The announcement comes just days after President Trump ended an exemption that allowed anyone to ship packages worth less than $800 to the U.S. without paying duties or undergoing inspections.

CNN's Marc Stewart is live for us in Beijing. And Marc, you're getting some reaction from the Chinese government to this.

MARC STEWART, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Right, Christina, we just got back from a briefing at China's Ministry of Foreign Affairs. And broadly speaking, the Chinese government says it will defend itself against these moves by the United States government, including those involving the Chinese e-commerce industry.

While the U.S. Postal Service won't say why the shipment of packages from China and Hong Kong will be stopped, at least for now, you could read in between the lines to say that it wants to have an impact on China's thriving and very profitable e-commerce industry. There are so many popular sites, sites that people use around the world, including in the United States, such as XIN, which is known for its fashion, fast fashion, as well as Temo, which is kind of a lower-end version of Amazon.

But what the government has done in the U.S. could directly impact these thriving e-commerce platforms here in China, not only on a corporate level, but as well as its workers and their livelihoods as well. It could have a sting. And again, this is part of this back-and- forth that we've been seeing between the United States and China.

I asked a government official today just about the general state of affairs between these two nations with all of this trade tension that's been brewing. Let's take a listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

STEWART: Does China feel the United States will act in good faith moving forward?

LIN JIAN, CHINES FOREIGN MINISTRY SPOKESPERSON (through translator): The United States has imposed a 10 percent tariff on Chinese goods on the grounds of the fentanyl issue.

[04:40:00]

China is strongly dissatisfied with this and firmly opposes it. The measures China has taken are necessary to safeguard its legitimate rights and interests.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

STEWART: We were hoping to get an update about that much-talked-about phone call between President Trump and Chinese leader Xi Jinping that was brought up by the president earlier in the week. But at this point, no indication exactly when that will occur. President Trump now making it sound as if there is no rush to have this call.

But it's a discussion that could be very important in determining where this trade tension moves next. Will the United States throw retaliations back at China, retaliatory tariffs? Or is the stage open for some diplomatic discussion?

That's something we hope to know in the days and hours ahead. But right now, Max and Christina, at least no public indication of this phone call on the calendar.

FOSTER: OK, Marc, in Beijing, thank you for that update.

MACFARLANE: And Donald Trump says he is considering an offer to send U.S. criminals to foreign prisons. Why human rights groups are sounding the alarm, just ahead.

[04:45:00]

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

FOSTER: President Trump is apparently considering sending jailed American citizens to prisons in El Salvador and says he would do it in a heartbeat if it were legal.

MACFARLANE: Well, this comes after El Salvador's president offered to house U.S. deportees and violent criminals in his country's extensive prison system. Donald Trump and Secretary of State Marco Rubio say they would happily ship off hardened criminals and those who have committed heinous crimes.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: The people that use -- and you see it -- the people that take out a gun and shoot you for no reason at all, if we could get these animals out of our country and put them in a different country under the supervision of somebody that made a relatively small fee to maintain these people, because you know what? These are criminals.

MARCO RUBIO, U.S. SECRETARY OF STATE: There are obviously legalities involved. We have a constitution. We have all sorts of things, but it's a very generous offer. No one's ever made an offer like that. And to outsource at a fraction of the cost.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

FOSTER: Human rights groups have condemned El Salvador's offer, saying its prisons are inhumane and U.S. citizens would be losing their right to due process. CNN's David Culver takes us inside one of the country's most notorious prisons.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

DAVID CULVER, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): U.S. citizens and permanent residents charged with committing violent crimes could soon be held in El Salvador's mega prison, Cecot. The highly secured facility is now the focus of a new U.S. deal announced by Secretary of State Marco Rubio and El Salvador's President Nayib Bukele. Under the agreement, convicted felons deported from the U.S. could be sent here.

CULVER: So this is like airport security on steroids. Anything we're carrying with us has to go there. And then there's a body scan that continues on the other side.

CULVER (voice-over): Late last year, we got a rare look inside.

CULVER: All right, we're going to go in here.

CULVER (voice-over): Even as I'm stepping through these doors, I don't fully grasp what we're about to walk into.

Suddenly, you're hit with the intense gaze of dozens locking on to you. These men described as the worst of the worst, tattooed with reminders of El Salvador's dark past. It's tense and uncomfortable. But here, officials say comfort isn't meant to exist.

CULVER: There's no mattresses. There's no sheets. You've got a toilet over here for them to go to the bathroom. You've got this basin here that they use to bathe themselves. And then you can see there, there's a barrel of water that they can drink from.

CULVER (voice-over): This is a rare look inside El Salvador's terrorism confinement center, known as Cecot.

CULVER: And he says there's always somebody standing here in front of the cells. And then if you look up, there's another corridor with more security personnel. 24-7 light.

CULVER (voice-over): The prison sits like an isolated fortress, nestled in mountainous terrain, about an hour and a half drive from the capital. Even with government officials on board with us, we're stopped a mile out.

CULVER: Oh, OK. He's going to inspect bags now, too. OK, we're clear to get back in.

CULVER (voice-over): Only to hit another checkpoint. Approaching the main gate, our cell signals vanish.

CULVER: They want to do a full search on us before we enter.

CULVER (voice-over): Once cleared, we tour the vast campus.

CULVER: It's been equated to seven football stadiums. It's almost multiple prisons within the prison. You can see off to the distance, there's three different rings, as they describe. The far end, you have one that's nine meters high of concrete, and then above that, three meters of electrified fencing.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: About 15,000 volts.

CULVER: 15,000 volts.

CULVER (voice-over): More than 1,000 security personnel, guards, police and military are stationed on site. Inmates are assigned to one of eight sectors.

CULVER: The director tells me the inmates, once they're inside one of these sectors, they never leave. Everything is done within, including doctors, as well as legal visits or court hearings.

[04:50:00]

CULVER (voice-over): Each sector holds more than two dozen large cells.

CULVER: Roughly 80 inmates per cell, but it can fluctuate.

CULVER (voice-over): Most bear the markings of the gangs that held this nation hostage for decades, committing brutal acts of violence.

MARVIN VASQUEZ, PRISON INMATE: You got to kill people. You got to rob. You got to do what you got to do to survive.

CULVER: You have to do those things.

VASQUEZ: Yes, you got to do that.

CULVER (voice-over): We meet 41-year-old Marvin Vasquez, shackled and heavily guarded.

CULVER: What gang were you part of?

VASQUEZ: MS-13.

CULVER: And do you have any gang affiliations?

VASQUEZ: Yeah, I'm tattooed up.

CULVER: What is this?

VASQUEZ: Crazy criminal. Say crazy criminal. Yeah, I made this click in 2011.

CULVER: You made the click?

VASQUEZ: Yeah.

CULVER: You were a gang leader?

VASQUEZ: Yeah.

CULVER: What is it like to live here?

VASQUEZ: It's probably not a hotel five-star, but they give you three times the food. They give you some programs. You got to do exercise. Some church or religion programs too.

CULVER: But that's limited to just 30 minutes a day. The other 23 and a half hours, they're kept inside and locked up.

CULVER (voice-over): For inmates who get violent with other prisoners or guards --

CULVER: We're going to close the door. I just want to get a sense of --. Wow.

CULVER (voice-over): Solitary confinement awaits.

CULVER: The only light you get is through this hole. They can be in here for 15 days, potentially. All right. I'm ready to get out.

The director brought up that a lot of folks will raise concerns from a human rights perspective and an abuse of human rights, that he's calm hearing that because he sees it day to day, the process they go through to maintain, as he sees it, proper punishment.

CULVER (voice-over): While you're cut off from society here, whispers of life on the outside make their way in.

VASQUEZ: I've heard about it, that it's a new El Salvador. It looks different.

CULVER (voice-over): That new El Salvador has emerged under President Nayib Bukele, who took office in 2019 and declared a controversial state of emergency more than two years ago. It sparked an aggressive crackdown on crime. We see that firsthand, as some 2,500 police and soldiers deploy into one neighborhood.

CULVER: It's going to go on through the night for however long it takes for them to root out any suspected criminal elements.

CULVER (voice-over): Critics argue Bukele's strategy has given him far-reaching power to suppress dissent and silence any opposition. Late last week, as the U.S. State Department lowered its travel advisory for El Salvador, citing a significant reduction in crime, it also warned that Bukele's emergency measures allow authorities to arrest anyone suspected of gang activity and suspends constitutional rights. And yet most we meet seem unfazed by the added show of force.

CULVER: I asked him, I said, how do you feel with all these soldiers? I mean, there's a couple of dozen just right outside his door. And he said, no, I feel safe.

CULVER (voice-over): El Salvador now has one of the world's highest incarceration rates. The most heartening criminals brought the Cecot, where, inside, a life sentence awaits.

VASQUEZ: We did bad things. We pay it the rough way, doing time. CULVER (voice-over): And yet for many on the outside, the prison now a symbol of newfound freedom. The new El Salvador as they see it.

David Culver, CNN, El Salvador.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

MACFARLANE: One of the world's most popular tourist spots, Santorini, is typically filled with visitors, but now earthquakes are sending almost everyone on Greece's Instagram island back to the mainland.

FOSTER: They're going to be rushing back to get the pictures of the island empty.

MACFARLANE: And then the earthquake.

[04:55:00]

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

MACFARLANE: Welcome back. Known as Greece's Instagram island, Santorini is typically flooded with tourists, but right now visitors and many residents are heading back to the mainland as hundreds of earthquakes rattle the famous hotspot. Over the past three days, about 550 quakes with a magnitude of 3.0 have been recorded in the Aegean Sea just offshore from Santorini.

FOSTER: And the island was hit by a 4.8 magnitude quake on Tuesday morning. Officials predict the unprecedented seismic activity could continue as well for many more days, not weeks.

MACFARLANE: Well, some lucky school children were given the royal treatment for a field trip to remember.

FOSTER: Yes, Catherine, the Princess of Wales accompanied a group of four and five-year-olds to London's National Portrait Gallery on Tuesday. She and the children took part in a new interactive exhibition geared for young children.

MACFARLANE: The exhibit is part of Catherine's Shaping Us initiative for early childhood development and mental health. The gallery visit continues her gradual return to royal duties after finishing her treatment for cancer.

FOSTER: There's a little girl just clinging to her throughout.

MACFARLANE: It's very sweet, yes.

Now, a word of warning if you're travelling through South Korea's Incheon Airport, keep the kimchi out of your carry-on. Security officials there have confiscated almost 11 tons of the popular dish last year.

FOSTER: It's made with salted and fermented vegetables, if you didn't know, and is a staple at Korean dinner tables, of course, but it also violates the ban on liquid on carry-on bags. Airport officials say the food is either thrown away or donated to local welfare centers.

MACFARLANE: Oh, my husband would be not very happy. That's his favorite. Thank you for joining us here on CNN NEWSROOM. I'm Christina Macfarlane.

FOSTER: I'm Max Foster. This is CNN NEWSROOM. Coming up is CNN "THIS MORNING."

MACFARLANE: Very good.

[05:00:00]