Return to Transcripts main page
CNN Newsroom
CNN International: Trump: "The U.S. Will take Over The Gaza Strip"; USPS Restores Delivery Of Parcels From China & Hong Kong; In Red Nebraska, Concerns About Trump's Hard-Line Policy. Aired 11a-12p ET
Aired February 05, 2025 - 11:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
[11:00:00]
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
RAHEL SOLOMON, HOST, "CNN NEWSROOM": Good morning or good evening, depending on where you're watching. I'm Rahel Solomon live in New York.
And ahead on CNN Newsroom, blistering outrage and new fallout, this after President Trump declared that the U.S. will take over Gaza. We'll look at the global shock waves and the stinging rebukes. Plus, trade tensions between the U.S. and China continue to spark fear and uncertainty in the global marketplace. But, what does this all mean for consumers? And warnings from former Twitter employees to federal employees about the agenda of Elon Musk, what his tear-it-all-down approach feels like from the people who know firsthand.
Well, we begin with a fierce backlash to Donald Trump's idea to turn the homeland of millions of people into a giant real estate project, displacing them to create what he calls the Riviera of the Middle East. The U.S. President triggering an international uproar during his meeting Tuesday with Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu. He proposed a U.S. takeover of Gaza, possibly with the help of U.S. troops, and permanently resettling Palestinians in Egypt, Jordan or elsewhere. He suggested that Palestinians would love to leave, which is categorically false.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT, UNITED STATES OF AMERICA: We'll do what is necessary. If it's necessary, we'll do that. We're going to take over that piece, and we're going to develop it. I do see a long-term ownership position. We have an opportunity to do something that could be phenomenal. And I don't want to be cute. I don't want to be a wise guy, but the Riviera of the Middle East. This could be something that could be so bad -- this could be so magnificent.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
SOLOMON: And reaction came fast, and it came furious on Capitol Hill. One Senate Democrat said, a U.S. invasion of Gaza would lead to the slaughter of thousands of U.S. troops and decades of war in the Middle East. It's like a bad, sick joke. Another Senator told CNN, it's like pouring gasoline on an already burning fire.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
SEN. CHRIS VAN HOLLEN (D-MD): This is an insane proposal, and there has been a huge backlash already because the President of the United States was saying that he would use U.S. military force, if necessary, to forcibly remove two million Palestinians from Gaza. That's ethnic cleansing by another name, so that it could be redeveloped.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
SOLOMON: Saudi Arabia, Egypt, Jordan, France, Germany, too many countries to list here, are all slamming the idea as a violation of international law, but the far right in Israel is overjoyed that Mr. Trump has adopted their long-advocated, quote, "solution for Gaza". Now, of course, some of the most important reaction is coming from Palestinians themselves. Their homes may be destroyed, but they say they are going nowhere.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE (Interpreted): This is a failed Israeli plan, and it's impossible to transfer us from Gaza. We lived under bombardments for a year and a half. After all this suffering, starvation, bombardments and death, we won't easily leave Gaza.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE (Interpreted): All of our children's homes have been demolished, and our house is half destroyed. Rain comes into the house. Cold is coming in, and we will still stay whatever happens. Even if we stay in the tent, even if they give us castles and villas, we are not leaving our lands.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE (Interpreted): I want to die in my land, to stay in it. I was born in Gaza, lived in Gaza, studied in Gaza. I got married here, and had my children. Whatever happens, I will never leave it.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE (Interpreted): We will not leave. Occupation and colonization will vanish and we will stay.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
SOLOMON: All right. Let's get more now from our Nic Robertson, who is live in London. Nic, some Arab leaders in Middle East have called the President's proposal hard to grasp and hard to digest. Talk to us a little bit more about what fallout we've seen so far.
NIC ROBERTSON, CNN INTERNATIONAL DIPLOMATIC EDITOR: Yeah. Worrying is another expression that we've heard, sort of not the source saying that, wasn't putting his name to it. And I think there is a sense here that if you look at what we're hearing from the Gulf states, which really have the power in the relationship with President Trump, because he has what they want. It's good trade. It's good business. Saudi Arabia is the biggest one of them. We're not hearing them, the leaders there, Crown Prince Mohammed bin Salman, for example, come out and flatly, directly criticize President Trump on this issue of expelling 2.1 million Palestinians from Gaza. He is not. But, what we did here, which is very, very telling, was a reiteration
of Saudi Arabia's position on the Palestinian state, the need to have a two-state solution, if you will, a Palestinian state before there could be normalization with Israel.
[11:05:00]
Very quickly, after President Trump made those comments, Saudi Arabia put that out. That is unusual for Saudi Arabia to react that quickly, and it is a very strong diplomatic message that they're pushing back. Again, we're not hearing that strength and direct contradiction of President Trump vocally from Gulf leaders. The Qataris are saying, look, there is a plan from the region to do the rebuilding with the Palestinians there.
But, the strongest pushback by far is really coming from those leaders of Jordan and of Egypt who really feel it's an existential threat to have so many potential millions of Palestinians pushed into their countries. They've been saying that they can't do it. And King Abdullah today spoke about it, and he said these ideas of Israeli settlers being able to move in, these ideas must be stopped. The Palestinians must be allowed to stay in their places.
This is ricocheting, not just in the region, around the world as well. We heard from Keir Starmer, the British Prime Minister, today, speaking in Parliament, saying, look, the Palestinians in Gaza have a right to go home, a right to rebuild their houses, and we should be helping them rebuild their houses.
So, what Donald Trump is saying, it doesn't have traction in the region, has the strongest pushback by those countries that are closest to Israel, that would suffer the most, and pushback from European partners as well. And Israel has been hearing that, by the way. The foreign minister there has spoken about the pushback that he has heard from European leaders already today.
SOLOMON: Yeah. I mean, Nic, the implications of this obviously could be huge, I mean, as you lay out, of course, for the two million people who call Gaza home, but also for Jordan, for Egypt, but even broader geopolitical implications. Walk us through some of the ramifications here.
ROBERTSON: Yeah. It's sort of hard to get your head around where it could all unravel to. I think perhaps first it's worth just saying. You look at what Donald Trump said in the last couple of days, right, on trade with Mexico and trade with Canada, 25 percent tariffs, the beginning of one day, the end of the next day. Those tariffs have been suspended for 30 days. So, we know that he will amp something up and amp it back down. Look at the Postal Service overnight with U.S. position on that with China, up one minute, down later in the day.
So, is this that? Is he trying to push the region and push the Palestinians in Gaza to accept a lesser evil, whatever the plan, the phase two, the phase three of this ceasefire-hostage negotiation that's going on at the moment? Is he trying to force them into something that isn't a complete forcing them out of the country, and force them into something that is painful, but not that painful? Is that what it's about?
But, taken at face value, the U.S. engaging in what would become, very quickly, a hostile neighborhood for them in the Middle East, would essentially somebody -- one official has said, pours fuel on an already lit fire. I don't think the United States has contemplated recently under the Biden administration, certainly not contemplated putting troops back into the Middle East in that kind of a way. That would be a departure.
But, then you would push out Hamas, which is something that grew out of the Muslim Brotherhood. The Muslim Brotherhood in Egypt won an election there a decade or so ago. The government there locked them up and put Hamas back into that equation. You upset the political dynamic inside of Egypt. Egypt is a massive and important ally of the United States, of Europe, of Saudi Arabia. To keep stability in that corner of the region, you would upset, essentially, for the White House, you would upset your own interests if you destabilize in Egypt and the similar version of the same narrative in Jordan, a weak country relies on U.S. aid, destabilize it, and that is a very difficult security scenario for Israel and for the U.S.
SOLOMON: It gives you a sense of why you're hearing from some that it's just a really difficult idea to grasp and put your arms around.
Nic Robertson, thank you.
And my next guest says that mass displacement of Palestinians from Gaza under the guise of a humanitarian gesture is a negotiation tactic that is dead on arrival. Firas Maksad is a Senior Director and Senior Fellow at the Middle East Institute in Washington. Firas, always great to have you. I want to pick up, actually, where Nic just left off there, this idea that this may be a negotiating tactic, that there are those who say this is just classic art of the deal, negotiating from Trump. Do you believe he is serious, and perhaps more importantly, do leaders in the region believe that he is serious?
[11:10:00]
FIRAS MAKSAD, SENIOR FELLOW, MIDDLE EAST INSTITUTE: Rahel, thank you for having me again. Yes, I think this is very much classic Trump. I'll tell you from conversations that I've had in Washington that this is not part of any sort of preconceived strategy. Certainly, his team is still in transition. They haven't had the chance to put a strategy together to deal with these complicated issues of Gaza and the day after. So, this is President Trump riffing in a very classical negotiation manner. The folks in the region, the leaders of the region, understand him by now. They've had plenty of experience with him in the first term in office, and clearly they're also staking a very firm position.
I have a great deal of respect for Nic Robertson. He is probably one of the most learned reporters in the region. I have a slightly different read here on the Saudi and Arab position. First, we saw last week a unanimous statement by the Arab leaders, not only just Jordan and Egypt, which are the two countries most concerned with the transfer of population from Gaza, but also America's Arab allies, Saudi Arabia, chief amongst them, Qatar, UAE and others, and the Saudis here are not mincing their words.
First, a couple of months ago, there was a statement by the Crown Prince of Saudi Arabia in what is equivalent to the State of the Union speech, in which he moved from asking for a pathway, a credible time- bound pathway towards a Palestinian state, to demanding a Palestinian state in and of itself as a precondition for normalization, and then we saw a very clear statement yesterday addressing the population transfer issue within minutes of the Trump-Netanyahu presser at 04:00 a.m. Riyadh time. So, I think the region understands that this is a non-starter. They understand Trump's style of negotiation, and they're reacting in a very clear and direct manner to him right now,
SOLOMON: And Firas, to follow up on that. I mean, what's the likelihood then that you see a walking back or a softening from Trump because of how sensitive this issue is and because of how strong the fallout has been?
MAKSAD: I mean, I think there is plenty of examples of President Trump staking these maximalist positions and then walking them back. The one that comes to my mind, for example, in relation to the Middle East, is the comments about the withdrawal from Syria in October of 2019, in a phone call with President of Turkey. He eventually had to walk that back too. Trump doesn't have a problem doing that, justifying that. There is perhaps, beyond just the negotiating tactic, another rationale here, which is maybe to give Prime Minister of Israel, Bibi Netanyahu, some cover with the hard right in order to push through to the second phase of implementation of that ceasefire in Gaza. Many of them, Finance Minister there, being key, had threatened to withdraw if, in fact, we go through to the second part of that ceasefire.
So, there might be a policy rationale, I'm not too sure, but most likely it is because of wanting to stake a negotiating position and assume leverage with these Arab allies in return for something down the road.
SOLOMON: Yeah. Firas, let me play for you some sound. This is from President Trump. This was back in 2024, and essentially what he is talking about is just how valuable this land, how valuable Gaza could be in terms of building it up and development. Take a listen.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
VOICE OF TRUMP: It could be better than Monaco. It has the best location in the Middle East, the best water, the best everything. It's got -- it is the best, I've said it for years, you know when, I've been there and it's rough, it's a rough place before these -- before all of the attacks and before -- back and forth what's happened over the last couple years. And I said, wow, look at this. They never took advantage of it. You know, as a developer, it could be the most beautiful place, the weather, the water, the whole thing, the climate. It could be so beautiful. It could be the best thing in the Middle East.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
SOLOMON: Firas, how much more inflammatory or insulting, do you think, comments like that can be to those in the region, Palestinians, Arabs in the region, to hear the President, the American President speak about Gaza in this way, essentially reducing it to commercial interests? How it could be developed into tourism and beautiful real estate?
MAKSAD: Yes. I mean, Rahel, that's -- obviously it's much more complicated than that. This is something that gets to the very heart of the Palestinian national narrative, their struggle for self- determination over decades of time. They, of course, have went through mass expulsions and mass transfer in the past. In 1948, many of them were either compelled to leave their homes or forced to, and then in 1967, also another massive transfer of Palestinian refugees and the hundreds of thousands that still exist in neighboring countries, in Lebanon, in Syria, Jordan and others. So, there is a lot of history and background relating to this issue. It's a lot more complicated than a real estate development plan.
[11:15:00]
And again, it's hard to get to the psyche of President Trump and whether that he really is thinking of this in commercial terms, as he tends to. Obviously, we know that even Steven Witkoff, his envoy to the Middle East, comes from a similar kind of real estate development background, whether that is -- that's what's driving this, or that this is part of the art of the deal and the negotiation. Nobody really knows the answer to that question, but Donald Trump. But, it certainly is not landing well with the Palestinians and most of America's Arab allies, many of our European allies too.
SOLOMON: And Firas, it's that uncertainty that his supporters will say is why he is such an effective negotiator, because you don't know sort of what his true motivations are, and there is a possibility that even some of the more, what critics would say, extreme suggestions he might pursue. You just don't know, and his supporters say that is why he is effective.
Firas Maksad, we will leave it here. Thank you.
And the first punches have been thrown between the U.S. and China in what could amount to be a short-lived trade war. This morning, the U.S. Postal Service restored delivery of incoming parcels from China and Hong Kong after briefly suspending them overnight. While no reason was given for the initial suspension, the Postal Service suggests that it was related to the new 10 percent tariff imposed on Tuesday on all Chinese goods imported into the U.S. It's an additional tariff. China responded, meantime, by announcing a 10 percent to 15 percent tariff on some U.S. imports, which is set to take effect on Monday.
CNN's Matt Egan is tracking the fallout from President Trump's wide- ranging tariffs. He joins us now from New York. Matt, great to see you. I think the bottom line for a lot of folks is, what does this mean to me? What does this mean for consumers?
MATT EGAN, CNN REPORTER: Well, Rahel, this is all a window into the chaos that has already been unleashed by this evolving U.S.-China trade war. It is chaos and confusion, right? Because last night, first, the U.S. Postal Service announced that it would just stop accepting packages from China and from Hong Kong. No reason was really given, as you mentioned, but the wide assumption was that it was related to that executive order that President Trump signed, and then 12 hours later, USPS reversed itself. They put out a statement saying that, yes, they are going to resume accepting deliveries from China and from Hong Kong, and they said that they're working with customs together to try to implement an efficient collection mechanism for those tariffs, right?
And so, what's happened is, while all the attention was on the tariff rate that Trump imposed on China, and whether or not Canada and Mexico would get caught up in this trade war. Another really important element of the executive order that Trump signed the other day was ending what's known as the de minimis exemption. And essentially, this has been around for decades, since the 1930s actually, and it applies to all U.S. imports below $800. It's a way for consumers to bring stuff in from overseas without getting the tariffs or the fees or taxes applied to it.
And we've seen just explosive growth in terms of de minimis imports into the United States, in large part from China. I think you could see it on that screen. You see that imports from China under this exemption have skyrocketed to $45 billion in 2021 alone, and the termination of de minimis, plus this USPS confusion, right, is really creating a serious threat to the E-commerce sites out there, like Shein and Temu and others, right, that have really just exploded in popularity because they're largely able to ship those goods into the U.S. without facing the tariffs. And now there is all these questions related to the trade war, and it's also other companies, right, that build stuff, that make stuff in in China, right? And you think about Amazon. A lot of stuff is made in China, and then it comes into the U.S.
And so, I think, Rahel, this really just underscores how the trade war has already expanded pretty rapidly, right? I mean, the focus early on was on tariffs, but then you had the retaliation from China. That includes an investigation of Google, an investigation of the parent company of Tommy Hilfiger. There is limits on imports of metals from China into the U.S. Now, there is these questions about shipments from China. So, it's already escalated pretty quickly, just beyond the initial round of tariffs.
SOLOMON: Yeah. Some would definitely look at this and say, well, that escalated quickly.
Matt Egan, appreciate you being with us. Thank you.
EGAN: Thanks, Rahel.
SOLOMON: And on the campaign trail, President Trump promised a sweeping crackdown on undocumented immigrants, and just two weeks into his return to the White House, we're getting an idea of the wide impact that that plan is already having on many families.
[11:20:00] Plus, quote, "The fear is real among us", what those in the crosshairs of the Trump mass deportation plan are saying in America's heartland, when we come back.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
SOLOMON: Welcome back. The U.S. Department of Homeland Security says that the President has delivered on his promise to begin mass deportations of what it called violent criminals. The Trump administration says that in its first two weeks, nearly 9,000 quote, "immigration violators" have been arrested and nearly 6,000 people have been deported. There have been 626 arrests per day on average under the Trump administration. That's about double the rate from last year, when Joe Biden was President.
And the Trump administration has begun deporting migrants to Guantanamo Bay, and it's not waiting to find out whether the move is legal. The White House is working to quickly expand the prison base camp in Cuba. U.S. Marines are there putting up tents to house migrants and members of the U.S. Army will soon head there to provide police, food and medical services. Meanwhile, Mexico's Foreign Minister sent a diplomatic note to the U.S., insisting that no Mexican citizens be sent to Guantanamo Bay, quote, "under any circumstances".
And even in some red states, where President Trump is very popular, his immigration crackdown is not being met with universal support.
CNN's John King went to Nebraska, the heart of the American farm belt, where Trump's immigration policies are stoking fear and uncertainty.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
JOHN KING, CNN CHIEF NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): The Nebraska prairie, it's calm and quiet as the rolling farmlands wait out winter.
CROWD: This is what community looks like.
KING (voice-over): But even here, the new Trump agenda stirs passion and fear.
CROWD: Love over hate.
KING (voice-over): Immigrant workers are critical in a state where cattle outnumber people by more than three to one. Nebraska is second to Texas in U.S. beef production, sixth in pork, and its Cornhusker State nickname celebrates its role as an agriculture giant.
JOHN HANSEN, PRESIDENT, NEBRASKA FARMERS UNION: If we have a hitch in the get-along in Nebraska, it's a big enough processing state, it's going to be felt in the food chain.
KING (voice-over): By hitch in the get-along, Nebraska Farmers Union President John Hansen means a Trump immigration crackdown that rounds up undocumented workers.
HANSEN: Do we need better enforcement? I think we do. There is a constructive way to do it, and there is a less constructive way to do it. And so, it remains to be seen how we proceed.
KING (voice-over): This is a red state, and its Republican governor is offering support if the Trump White House puts Nebraska on its immigration crackdown list. Fear is the word you hear most from immigrants, even those with legal status.
"GIN", NEBRASKA RESIDENT: This first term was more of like, let's see if this can happen. This year is more, I'm going to do it.
KING (on camera): They go to school --
KING (voice-over): Gin has a green card now, and is working toward citizenship, but he has family and friends who are undocumented, and he asks that we not use his full name.
"GIN": It's a scary time for my community, for people I care for, are basically, are not lucky enough like I am.
KING (voice-over): Rumors of ICE activity spread fast, as did word that agents can now enter schools and churches.
[11:25:00]
"GIN": It starts off people getting scared. Basically, it starts off like, have you seen immigration? Have you seen this? And you see the fear in people's eyes, just the fact that they can't go out to the store, they can't go get groceries, or even hospitals. It's just a hard time.
KING (voice-over): Immigrant advocates like Mary Choate say clients are worried now about sending their children to school, or showing up for English classes and other services.
MARY CHOATE, EXECUTIVE DIRECTOR, CENTER FOR LEGAL IMMIGRATION ASSISTANCE: We really want to keep immigrants and refugees involved in the community, because they're so integral to our community. But, it's been very difficult for them to be able to do that, because they fear going outside of their homes.
"G", ASYLUM SEEKER: (FOREIGN LANGUAGE)
KING (voice-over): "G" is seeking asylum. She was a journalist back home in Honduras, targeted by the government, she says, after reports detailing corruption.
"G" (Interpreted): If I go back to Honduras, they will kill me.
KING (voice-over): She entered the states a year ago, using a Biden administration phone app that Trump eliminated on day one.
KING (on camera): Your lawyers tell you, you're in the asylum process, and you should be OK. But, with Trump as President, are you worried?
"G" (Interpreted): Of course, for sure.
KING (on camera): Why? "G" (Interpreted): Because he tries to implement quite strict policies with immigrants in general, and I think even more with people who have just entered the country. At least with the program I entered with, there is some instability, so to speak. So, of course, that increases anxiety and concern. With Trump's arrival, I have felt very unstable. I have a lot of anxiety, I suffer from insomnia, and I cannot stop thinking about the possibility of being deported. I cannot go back.
KING (voice-over): Nebraska State Senator Kathleen Kauth is pushing a new E-Verify law that requires employers to certify their workers are legal. Simple and common sense, she says. But, Kauth concedes the polarized national debate might make it harder to win over Democrats.
KATHLEEN KAUTH, NEBRASKA STATE SENATE REPUBLICAN: I'm really more worried about Nebraska and focusing on, what do we need in Nebraska to understand the problem? How do we make sure that we are keeping people who are not here legally from taking jobs from people who are here?
KING (voice-over): Kauth believes the state can handle any workforce disruption caused by stronger enforcement, and she is a state example of the Trump effect on the Republican Party. Any path to status or citizenship for those already here illegally must start with going home.
KAUTH: I kind of view it as a poison apple from the poison tree, whatever the legal definition is. If your first act is to break the law, you have become a criminal. And so, therefore, everything after, even if it's well-intentioned, even if it's wonderful, please go back and go through the process, because we do want you here, but we need you to do it the right way. And I don't think that that should ever change.
KING (voice-over): Go back is the driving theme of the new Republican immigration push, and a big reason more immigrants think it's best to stay in the shadows.
John King, CNN, Lincoln, Nebraska.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
SOLOMON: And still ahead for us, thousands of people are escaping Greece's Santorini Island, the incredible vacation spot rattled after an earthquake and continuous aftershocks, coming up. Plus, in Washington, a call to restore vital U.S. foreign aid, as thousands of government aid workers face the possibility that they may soon be out of a job, when we come back
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[11:30:00]
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
SOLOMON: Welcome back. You're watching CNN Newsroom. I'm Rahel Solomon live in New York, and here are some of the international headlines we're watching for you today. Sweden's Prime Minister is calling Tuesday's shooting in the city of Orebro the worst mass shooting in Swedish history. A gunman opened fire at an adult education center, killing at least 10 people and wounding several others before police believe he killed himself. Cell phone video shows students hiding under their desks. Now, the attacker was not known to police or connected to any gangs, and while he appeared to act alone, they cannot rule out that other perpetrators may have been involved somehow. Investigators say they do not believe the shooting was terror-related.
U.S. Secretary of State Marco Rubio is in Guatemala today. This visit is part of his effort to advance President Trump's agenda, with migration being a key focus throughout the Central American region. The White House is also looking for Guatemala to support the U.S. and counter Chinese influence throughout the region. Rubio will also soon meet with Guatemala's President, and then will head for the Dominican Republic.
And it's known as Greece's Instagram Island because of its stunning beauty and enormous level of tourism. But, right now, Santorini is a ghost town. Thousands of people have already left the island, as hundreds of aftershocks rocked the famous tourist spot since an earthquake over the weekend.
Elinda Labropoulou has more.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
ELINDA LABROPOULOU, JOURNALIST (voice-over): Tourists who came looking for respite, now rushing to escape a dream like Santorini, as the Greek island trembles with seismic activity. Hundreds of earthquakes have struck the waters near the island since Friday. Some are hardly noticeable. Others have reached magnitudes of over five, giving visitors and locals alike enough reason to flee.
TZANIS LIGNOS, SANTORINI RESIDENT (Interpreted): No one could sleep last night, not my wife, my son, only a bit. There was a lot of noise. It was surely a 4.9 quake, and in the house, it was really loud. We went running outside. That's why we cannot stay here any longer.
LABROPOULOU (voice-over): More than 6,000 residents have already left Santorini while schools remain closed until at least Friday, and authorities warn the residents to avoid indoor gatherings. These measures as airlines offer extra flights out of the island, and people flock to the ports, but as the island empties, its tremors persist.
BENI OUKLALA, SEASONAL WORKER (Interpreted): We're going to leave because I'm afraid there are constantly earthquakes. We have to leave for the kids so the kids can calm down.
LABROPOULOU (voice-over): Santorini is no stranger to earthquakes, but near-constant seismic phenomena like this are rare. Even so, as thousands rush to the mainland, others feel less inclined.
EFTICHIS DIAMANTOPOULOS TOURIST BOAT CAPTAIN (Interpreted): We will stay here. Why should we leave? If something happens, it happens. Oh, well, we are locals. We were born here.
LABROPOULOU (voice-over): Scientists say the seismic activity could last for days, if not weeks, threatening landslides and the possibility of a larger quake. And so, an island whose geography and beauty is known to draw visitors in, for now, steers them away.
Elinda Labropoulou, CNN, Athens.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
SOLOMON: And one very critical agency on the Trump administration's chopping block is USAID. We want to take you now to live pictures, as members of Congress and humanitarian leaders are rallying in Washington. At the podium there is Senator Chris Van Hollen from the state of Maryland. Their message to the Trump administration is, restore U.S. foreign aid immediately. This is a number of USAID offices in D.C. remain closed. A directive issued last night said that USAID employees around the world will be placed on leave Friday in order to return to the U.S. It's part of President Trump's apparent push to completely dismantle the agency, a move that is already putting many life-saving programs at risk.
Let's turn out to CNN Chief National Security Correspondent Alex Marquardt. Alex, great to have you. USAID at this point on the verge of collapse. What more do we know?
[11:35:00]
ALEX MARQUARDT, CNN CHIEF NATIONAL SECURITY CORRESPONDENT: Yeah. Rahel, there is a lot we can say and that we should say about the anger and the despair, the danger of these programs grinding to a halt. But, I think it's also important to highlight the questions about the legality of what is going on here, and what you just showed there of those lawmakers out at that rally taking place right now, we are hearing increasing voices, only Democrats at this point who are talking about how -- what is being done by the Trump administration is, in fact, illegal.
USAID was created as an independent agency by Congress, and technically, legally, only Congress and active Congress can change its status. But, what we're seeing right now is essentially the wholesale dismantling of USAID, again, an independent agency being absorbed into the State Department. Its acting Director -- acting Administrator right now is Secretary of State Marco Rubio. The person who is actually implementing all of these changes is a guy named Peter Morocco, who once upon a time did work for USAID under President Trump in the first term, and he is essentially gutting the agency.
What we've just seen late last night was this notice put on the USAID website, which had been taken offline, is now back online, with this simple statement, saying that all of what they call direct hires, so these are people who are directly employed by the U.S. government, around the world, so thousands of people, will be put on administrative leave as of Friday night at midnight. So, they will go home. They will continue to be paid for now, but they will not be allowed to work. So, what we're witnessing right now, and I'm talking to USAID officials here in Washington, all around the world, is this scramble to figure out what's going on. Their email has been cut off. So, they're not communicating directly with the people who are running the agency, which is now just a handful of people.
But, imagine if you're around -- you're somewhere else in the world, and you've got your family and your kids with you, and your kids are in school, those are the kinds of people who are now being ordered to come back to United States. Many of them won't -- don't have homes back here. They may not have jobs back here. And then you've got hundreds and hundreds of contractors, because so much of the USAID work is done by contractors, many of them had already been frozen out of the buildings that they work in. They've been frozen out of the embassies that they work in. They've been frozen out of their communications.
So, there is so much influx. There is so much chaos and that's before you even talk about the actual aid projects, so many of which have ground to a halt. So, in talking to these USAID officials, there is distress, there is despair, but there is also a lot of danger, because, as many people have told me, so many around the world risk losing their lives because of these USAID-backed projects that are now stopping. Rahel.
SOLOMON: Yeah. I mean, to your point, I mean, some of the biggest recipients in past years have been Ukraine, Ethiopia, Jordan, the Democratic Republic of Congo.
MARQUARDT: The list goes on.
SOLOMON: Exactly. Alex Marquardt, thank you.
MARQUARDT: Thank you.
SOLOMON: All right. Let's take you back live to Capitol Hill, where two of Donald Trump's cabinet picks are facing confirmation votes today. A short time ago, a Senate panel voted to move Howard Lutnick's bid to be the next Commerce Secretary forward. His nomination advances to the Senate floor. Now, if confirmed, he will likely play a key role in the President's plan to enact sweeping U.S. tariffs across the globe. And another Senate panel expected to vote on Kelly Loeffler's nomination to lead the Small Business Administration. The former Senator from Georgia is a longtime Trump supporter, who co-chaired the President's inauguration.
All right. First X, now the U.S. government. Still ahead, we will take a look at how Elon Musk is cutting government work forces, and what we may be able to learn from his cuts when he took over Twitter. Plus --
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TRUMP: I want the states to run schools, and I want Linda to put herself out of a job.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
SOLOMON: -- shutting down, President Trump laying the groundwork for his promise to close the doors on the Department of Education. We will look at other agencies who is trying to dismantle with CNN Senior Political Analyst Ron Brownstein, when we come back.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[11:40:00]
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
SOLOMON: All right. We want to take you to the Oval Office, where Pam Bondi was sworn in as U.S. Attorney General a short time ago. President Trump made remarks ahead of the swearing in. Let's listen in together.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
TRUMP: Hello everybody. This is a great honor and real privilege. I'm thrilled to be here today with our nation's next incredible, and she will be incredible, Attorney General of the United States, Pam Bondi, and I want to congratulate Pam. She is worked hard, so hard and unbelievably fair and unbelievably good at law enforcement. I just want to congratulate you, a very special person.
And I'd also like to thank Justice Clarence Thomas and his incredible wife, who is here someplace, there she is, incredible, highly respected wife too, I will say. I remember a couple of years ago, a little bit more than that, during -- toward the end of my first term, I was introducing a lot of people at a big event, about 5,000 people, in your biggest ballroom, you know what that is, and they were getting a nice smattering of applause. They were very important people. And then I introduced Justice Clarence Thomas. That place went crazy. And it was then that I realized that you are a very popular guy and respected guy. So, thank you for being here. It's an honor and a great honor for Pam. Thank you very much.
CLARENCE THOMAS, ASSOCIATE JUSTICE OF THE SUPREME COURT OF THE UNITED STATES: Thank you.
TRUMP: Pam was a career prosecutor for nearly 20 years, and was one of the toughest and smartest and best and most successful attorney generals in the history of Florida. And I think I put it out this morning, I think she is going to end up going down as the most successful, or certainly one of the most successful attorney generals that this country has ever had. I really believe that. I know her well. A lot of people in Florida, if you're in Florida, you know her well, and it was all good. It was never a problem. No problem.
As a prosecutor, she locked up drug dealers and gang members and human traffickers and was waging war all the time on the pill mills, they called them, that fueled the deadly opioid crisis, and she did better than anybody else. It was nobody like her in the country. She also won over $50 billion in lawsuits for the victims of financial fraud and devastating Deep Water Horizon oil spill, which was brutal, and she was the leader of that whole deal, getting that people taken care of.
As Attorney General of the United States, Pam has a historic and urgently needed task ahead of her, and probably there has never been a time, Clarence, that's more important than right now. We went through four years of not such good work in many ways, not just with the President, at other levels also with the President, obviously. She is going to restore fair, equal and impartial justice and restore the constitutional rule of law in America. She will lead the Democrats. You know where they're going to -- she is going to lead them right down. But, I think she is going to be as impartial as you can possibly be. I know I'm supposed to say she is going to be totally impartial with respect to Democrats. And I think she will be as impartial as a person can be.
I'm not sure if there is a possibility of totally, but she is going to be as total as you can get, Ginni, right, but she is going to be fair, and she'll lead the Department of Justice in crushing violent crime, demolishing the gangs, which are all over the place. If you look at New York, if you look at Chicago, if you look at Los Angeles, which is half burned down, unfortunately, because they didn't have the water and the didn't have what they were supposed to have.
[11:45:00]
Destroying the terrorist cartels is going to be a very big priority for Pam, and that leads to crime, and it leads to a lot of drugs. So, she is going to take care of it, and she'll stop the invasion of our country and get fentanyl off our streets. And we're going to be working with her very closely, Kristi Noem and Tom Homan, and all of the people are going to be working very closely with Pam. She is going to end the weaponization of federal law enforcement and restore honesty and integrity at the DoJ and the FBI. And she is going to be working with Kash, and she is going to be working with a lot of other people that you've been reading about, writing about over the last few weeks.
The role of Attorney General comes with immense responsibility, but I have absolute confidence that Pam will fulfill her duties with honor and courage and strength and fairness. She is going to be fair. She is going to be very fair.
And now, I'd like to invite Justice Thomas to administer the oath of office. And thank you all for being here. It's a great -- it's very important day, I believe, in our country's history. Thank you very much.
THOMAS: I do solemnly swear --
PAM BONDI, U.S. ATTORNEY GENERAL: I, Pamela Bondi, do solemnly swear --
THOMAS: -- that I will support and defend the Constitution of the United States --
BONDI: -- that I will support and defend the Constitution of the United States --
THOMAS: -- against all enemies, foreign and domestic --
BONDI: -- against all enemies, foreign and domestic --
THOMAS: -- that I will bear true faith and allegiance to the same --
BONDI: -- that I will bear true faith and allegiance to the same --
THOMAS: -- that I take this obligation freely --
BONDI: -- that I take this obligation freely --
THOMAS: -- without any mental reservation --
BONDI: -- without any mental reservation --
THOMAS: -- or purpose of evasion --
BONDI: -- or purpose of evasion --
THOMAS: -- and that I will well and faithfully --
BONDI: -- and that I will well and faithfully --
THOMAS: -- discharge the duties of the office on which I'm about to enter.
BONDI: -- discharge the duties of the office on which I am about to enter.
THOMAS: So help me God.
BONDI: So help me God.
THOMAS: Congratulations.
TRUMP: So, I just want to introduce her very, very handsome husband. I hate being around him. He looks too good, and he has been a tremendous factor with Pam, and I've just a beautiful relationship, who is here, and mother, look how good you look. Look how good. So, I just wanted to introduce them and Pam.
BONDI: Thank you, President.
TRUMP: Have fun. Please.
BONDI: Thank you. Thank you, President Trump. I've known you for many, many years, and I will not let you down. I am truly honored that you have asked me to take on this role, and I will make you proud, and I will make this country proud.
TRUMP: Thank you.
BONDI: And I just want to thank all of my friends who are here today, my dear friends and my family, my mom, my husband, my pastor Aaron Burke is here, so many of my good friends and my colleagues. So, thank you all so much. And I will restore integrity to the Justice Department, and I will fight violent crime throughout this country and throughout this world and make America safe again. Thank you. TRUMP: Thank you very much, everybody. Thank you. It's a great day.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Mr. President, there is a lot of proposal. A lot of people are talking about obviously --
TRUMP: Everybody loves it, but this is just not the right time. But, we'll maybe do something later. This is a very important and in my opinion, solemn occasion. So, I don't think we're going to talk about other subjects.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Mr. President, what is your top priority? What is your top priority of Madam Attorney General, for this new position that you held this morning?
TRUMP: Well, I can just say, very simply for me, overall, very simple, Make America Great Again. That's what we're going to do. We're going to make America great again. And she is going to take crime out of the system. As much as anybody can do that, she is going to do it.
BONDI: We're going to make America safe again.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Mr. President --
(CROSSTALK)
TRUMP: Thank you.
(CROSSTALK)
TRUMP: Thank you very much.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
SOLOMON: All right. We've just been listening to U.S. President Donald Trump there at the swearing in of the new U.S. Attorney General Pam Bondi, essentially becoming America's top law enforcement official.
[11:50:00]
Let me bring in now my guest from Los Angeles, CNN Senior Political Analyst Ron Brownstein. Ron, great to have you. One thing that I wanted to ask your thoughts on is I heard Trump say she will be unbelievably fair. I heard the word fair, by my count, at least half a dozen times. Obviously, that is of note, because Pam Bondi is considered a Trump loyalist, and she has a past. She has worked with the election denial efforts. Your thoughts about what you just heard.
RON BROWNSTEIN, CNN SENIOR POLITICAL ANALYST, & SENIOR EDITOR, THE ATLANTIC: Yeah, and also the President conspicuously and extensively praising Ginni Thomas, who was involved in the efforts, the wife of Clarence Thomas, who was emailing with Mark Meadows about efforts to overturn the election, as I recall.
Look, I think in Pam Bondi, you have someone who is going -- who kind of embodies the two strains of the Trump administration. On the one hand, he won the election, and that gives him the authority and ability to move policy in his direction, to the right on issues like crime and immigration, and she is going to be very much engaged in that. But, we are seeing in the first two weeks, not only a willingness, but a determination to go beyond that and to test and really shatter the boundaries of law on all sorts of fronts. And the question is, how far will his Attorney General go toward countenancing that?
I mean, in the first two weeks, he has let out of jail violent rioters from January 6 to attack police officers, and he is firing prosecutors in the Justice Department who worked on cases involving him or other elements of January 6. So, how far does she go along with that? She is a Trump loyalist. She is also someone who has a background in conventional law enforcement, and I think she is going to be a critical internal figure on how far this administration pushes in some of those directions.
SOLOMON: Yeah. Also of note that she said in her comments there that she will restore integrity to the Justice Department. Ron, give me a sense. Trump said that she will likely be the most successful AG in the history of AGs. But, what does success look like for her? She was one of the most -- she was the least controversial of his picks because of her background, because of her experience. But, what would --
BROWNSTEIN: Yeah.
SOLOMON: -- success look like for Pam Bondi?
BROWNSTEIN: Wow. Success for Pam Bondi, in the eyes of Trump, may be different than success in the eyes of the public or her. I mean, personally, look, I -- as I said, I think she is going to move in a -- the policy direction is going to be very clear. They're going to roll back civil rights enforcement. They're going to toughen criminal enforcement, support the mass deportation drive. One interesting question to me is, does Trump follow through on his pledges during the campaign to require every jurisdiction receiving federal law enforcement dollars to adopt a harsh policing tactics like the stop and frisk approach that was ultimately ruled unconstitutional in New York? That was an explicit promise. Will she go forward with that?
But, I think the real question for Pam Bondi is, can she hold the line on the rule of law? Trump's definition of fairness may include prosecuting those or targeting those he views as impediments to his agenda. He said explicitly, Rahel, during the campaign that he has the right to fire a U.S. attorney who will not open an investigation into a specific individual he names with or without evidence. So, is that something that she will accept?
SOLOMON: Yeah. And Ron, to that point, actually, something else that he said that caught my attention is when talking about how impartial she will be, he said, when it comes to Democrats, I think she will be as impartial as a person can be. What do you read --
BROWNSTEIN: Yeah.
SOLOMON: -- what do you read into that? BROWNSTEIN: Look, Trump has internalized and sold, to much of his
constituency, a narrative in which he was the victim of, quote, "weaponized justice". And I think he has made very clear that he intends to apply the same treatment to those he views, as I said, as impediments to his agenda, in a lot of different ways. And so, the question -- she is someone -- Matt Gaetz, I don't think would have put up any resistance to that. She is someone who comes out of a prosecuting background in kind of conventional law enforcement. And as I said, the issue of where she draws the line is going to be critical.
I mean, you're also seeing Trump openly defy all sorts of statutes in his first weeks, on TikTok, on civil service protections, on firing AGs without appropriate notice. The international law implications of saying, we are going to take Gaza and forcibly displace its residents. Is she willing to defend any actions that the administration takes, no matter how clearly they violate existing statutes?
[11:55:00]
I think that is going to be the real test she will face, and it will not only be the judgment of Trump, it'll be the judgment of history, because she is -- he is right about one thing. She is attorney general at an incredibly fraught moment for our constitutional democracy. And while she may not have the ultimate say, she is going to be an important kind of regulator of how far Trump can go in barreling through Constitutional restraints.
SOLOMON: Yeah, I mean, it's an important point. I mean, when you think about prosecutors in general, but certainly the nation's top prosecutor, they are among the most powerful people in this country. They make all sorts of decisions, what charges to charge, who to charge, what cases to drop.
Ron Brownstein, great to have you, but we have to leave it here, but I'm sure I'll talk to you soon about it again. Thank you.
BROWNSTEIN: Yeah. OK.
SOLOMON: All right. And thank you for being with me today. I'm Rahel Solomon live in New York. Stick with CNN. One World is coming up next.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
