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Aides Defend U.S. Takeover, Back Of Some Elements; Gaza Resident We Will Not Leave, We Will Die Here; Palestinians Push Back Against Gaza Takeover Idea; Syria Sees Long Road Ahead as It Starts to Rebuild; U.N. Says Nearly 3,000 People Killed in Battle for Goma; Nevada Dairy Herds Test Positive for Bird Flu; Scientists Use IVF to Produce World's First Kangaroo Embryo. Aired 2-2:45a ET

Aired February 06, 2025 - 02:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

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[02:00:25]

ROSEMARY CHURCH, CNN INTERNATIONAL ANCHOR: Hello and welcome to our viewers joining us from all around the world, and everyone streaming us on CNN Max. I'm Rosemary Church. Just ahead. The White House, walks back some of Donald Trump's comments about taking over Gaza amid a global backlash. Also.

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UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: When you're here on the ground and looking at it, it's clear that it is going to cost hundreds of billions to rebuild.

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CHURCH: The long road ahead for Syria. CNN visits a town at the heart of the uprising against Bashar al-Assad.

Plus, the scientific breakthrough that sparking hope for endangered marsupials.

ANNOUNCER: Live from Atlanta. This is CNN NEWSROOM with Rosemary Church.

CHURCH: Good to have you with us. Donald Trump's plan for the U.S. takeover of Gaza is drawing widespread criticism from allies and adversaries around the globe, including Saudi Arabia, China, Russia and, of course, the Palestinians. About the only one offering support of far-right Israeli leaders and members of his own administration. Mr. Trump wants the -- about two million people who live in Gaza to be relocated so the U.S. can apparently clear unexploded bombs and the debris from the war with Israel and rebuild. But the White House is walking back several of his key assertions.

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KAROLINE LEAVITT, WHITE HOUSE PRESS SECRETARY: The President has not committed to putting boots on the ground in Gaza. DONALD TRUMP (R) PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: As far as Gaza is concerned, we'll do what is necessary. If it's necessary, we'll do that. We're going to take over that piece.

LEAVITT: The President has made it clear that they need to be temporarily relocated out of Gaza.

TRUMP: If we can get a beautiful area to resettle people permanently in nice homes and where they can be happy.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

CHURCH: Egypt and Jordan are rejecting Mr. Trump's plea to take in Gaza residence, and Palestinians in the region insist they won't give up their land.

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NABIL ABU RUDEINEH, SPOKESPERSON FOR PALESTINIAN PRESIDENT MAHMOUD ABBAS: We are against any occupation, whether Israeli occupation or American occupation, to the Palestinian land. We are -- we are -- we are living in our country, in our state, in our land, and we will not live forever.

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CHURCH: CNN's Jeremy Diamond has more on what Palestinians in Gaza are saying about Mr. Trump's proposal.

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JEREMY DIAMOND, CNN WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): In the ruins of Gaza, Sami Ramadan (ph) is determined to clear the rubble where his home once stood. And he is determined to stay.

We will not leave. Occupation and colonization will vanish, and we will stay, he says. As long as we live on this land, we will stay. We will die here. Even if in a tent, I will live in the ruins of my home.

Like so many here, he swiftly rejected President Trump's proposal to permanently displace Gaza's two million Palestinians in favor of a U.S. takeover, and the president's rationale for doing so.

TRUMP: What's the alternative? Go where? There's no other alternative. If they had an alternative, they'd much rather not go back to Gaza and live in a beautiful alternative that's safe.

DIAMOND (voice-over): But hundreds of thousands of Palestinians have decided to return to their homes. Alongside tents pitched amid the rubble, they have already begun to rebuild. They say they are undeterred by the scale of the destruction.

I don't care what Trump says or anyone else. Look, my house is completely destroyed. There's not even a roof. But here I am. I am staying. Jordan and Egypt, the two countries Trump is pushing to accept Palestinian refugees, reiterating that Palestinians must be able to remain in Gaza amid what will be a year's long reconstruction. While Trump says his proposal is a humanitarian one, human rights experts call it a crime against humanity.

NOURA ERAKAT, HUMAN RIGHTS ATTORNEY AND PROFESSOR, RUTGERS UNIVERSITY: Their removal route is equivalent to their forced exile, permanent and forced exile, the ethnic cleansing of Palestine, and the denial of their return, which is already a Palestinian condition.

DIAMOND (on camera): So, there's no question in your mind that what President Trump is suggesting here is ethnic cleansing.

ERAKAT: There should be no question in anybody's mind. Trump is saying it himself that this is about the removal of Palestinians. He's calling Gaza, a home to 2.3 million people, a home to an indigenous people, a demolition site because the U.S. funded that demolition by air, by sea, by ground.

[02:05:11]

And now, in order to complete the project, they want to remove Palestinians altogether and then to claim ownership of it.

DIAMOND (voice-over): Trump's proposal is being heralded on the right- wing of Israeli politics, where lawmakers have long pushed for the forcible displacement of Palestinians.

BEZALEL SMOTRICH, ISRAELI FINANCE MINISTER (through translator): Those who carried out the most horrific massacre on our land will find themselves losing their land forever. Now, with God's help, we will work to permanently bury the dangerous idea of a Palestinian State.

DIAMOND (voice-over): Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu calling Trump's proposal worth pursuing. But even as he stopped short of a full-throated endorsement, Netanyahu's broad smile said it all. He and the new U.S. president now speaking the same language.

Jeremy Diamond, CNN, Tel Aviv.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

CHURCH: Gershon Baskin is a former hostage negotiator and the Middle East director for the International Communities Organization and he joins me now from Jerusalem. Appreciate you being with us.

GERSHON BASKIN, FORMER HOSTAGE NEGOTIATOR: Me too.

CHURCH: So, amid all the global outrage, the Trump administration is now walking back the President's explosive proposal that he announced on Tuesday, when he said the United States would own and develop Gaza and forcibly remove all Palestinians from the enclave. How far do you expect his administration will go in walking back his comments?

BASKIN: Well, I think it's completely unpredictable. I think everything about President Trump is unpredictable. My hope is that, like he threatened 25 percent tariffs on Canada and Mexico. He walked back after getting some kind of border agreements with them. I hope that this was some kind of message that Trump was sending to Hamas that it has to leave Gaza. It can no longer rule Gaza.

And not talking about ethnic cleansing of the Gaza Strip, or preventing the Palestinians from having an intended state. The United States has for a long time backed the idea that the solution to the Israeli-Palestinian conflict is a two-state solution, and yet President Trump gave messages both regarding Gaza and about Israel being allowed to annex parts of the West Bank that would be a death blow to the two-state solution.

And could be a death blow to any peace agreements that the State of Israel has with any of its Arab neighbors.

CHURCH: And we are now learning that President Trump's proposal to own and control Gaza even took some administration officials by surprise, as well as some Cabinet members and lawmakers. Where do you think he got this extreme idea that caught everyone off guard? His press secretary even admitting that Trump's plan was written as he revealed it to the world.

BASKIN: Well, I'm not -- I'm not sure that that's true. There was a video that was being shown all around the world prior to elections of Jared Kushner, his son-in-law, talking exactly about this plan, about the real estate development opportunities that would exist in the Gaza Strip. This wonderful coastal enclave of beautiful beaches that needs to be developed and I'm sure that the dollar signs were popping up in his eyes as he talked to his father-in-law about the golden opportunities to build resorts, casinos, hotels and golf courses in the Gaza Strip and in place of the people who are living there.

So, this is not a new idea. What was surprising that Trump decided to pull it out of the hat at this press conference with Benjamin Netanyahu, and the most fearful part of the whole plan is that some 70 percent of the Israeli people think it's a good idea. And this is, of course, the burning effect of that -- of the hate and fear that was developed after the horrific Hamas attacks on Israel on October 7th, 2023.

CHURCH: So, where do these mixed messages on Gaza's future leave the fragile ceasefire and hostage release deal that appears to have been forgotten in all this chaos?

BASKIN: Well, certainly it endangers the ceasefire, which is in its first stage still is supposed to be into deep negotiations on phase two, and phase two is supposed to lead to the end of the war withdrawal to Gaza. But both the United States and Israel have refused to deal with the political question of who's going to govern Gaza on the day after. And this will be a pretext for Israel not ending the war, not withdrawing from Gaza.

And, of course, perhaps not being able to return the Israeli hostages who are left in Gaza. This is a tragic reality that if the United States doesn't step up, and if we don't force our own government here in Israel to step up, this war will continue. So, it has no strategic value in continuing. It will only sustain and lengthen the suffering of the Palestinian people in Gaza who have already suffered too much, who have nothing left, no homes, no schools, no infrastructure, no (INAUDIBLE) no water.

[02:10:04]

We're having a rainstorm now with very strong winds and we have two million people living in tents in Gaza. I'm sure these tents were blown away during the night, and people are sitting in puddles of water with the mud of Gaza. This is a horrific reality that rather than Trump coming up with a plan to how to help rebuild Gaza quickly to enable people to have a decent life. He's talking about moving them like pieces of chest on a board that he controls. This is an unhinged reality.

CHURCH: And with his words, how likely is it that President Trump's comments have put the lives of the hostages at risk, and what more ramifications do you expect from regional leaders as they grapple with what President Trump intends to do in the end when it comes to Gaza?

BASKIN: It creates a very cloudy picture, because the cease fire deal happened because President Trump told Prime Minister Netanyahu to make sure that it's done before he enters the White House. And his emissary, Steve Witkoff, went to the region, stayed in Doha, came to Israel, woke up Netanyahu on a Saturday morning and told him to get this done. You're going to agree to it.

They agreed to a plan overnight that was on the table presented by President Biden in late May. And suddenly, because Trump said, do it. It got done. Now the question is, does Trump really understand that he may unwind everything that he already did, the great achievement of reaching this first cease fire is going to endanger the lives of many people in Gaza, as well as the Israeli hostages.

CHURCH: Gershon Baskin in Jerusalem. Many thanks for joining us and sharing your analysis on this issue. Appreciate it.

BASKIN: Thank you.

CHURCH: Well, hundreds of thousands of U.S. government workers could be facing mass layoffs part of Mr. Trump's efforts to downsize the federal workforce. So far, about 40,000 workers have taken what the administration calls deferred resignation, but that offer expires in the coming hours and the White House wants to eliminate up to 200,000 positions. Multiple sources tell CNN, the CIA has sent the White House an unclassified e-mail listing all new hires who have been with the agency for two years or less.

The move could potentially expose the officer's identities to hackers. And Elon Musk is now taking aim at Medicare and Medicaid. His team has been given access to the agencies which oversee health care coverage for more than 150 million Americans. Democrats oppose Musk's role in the White House and now even some Republicans are expressing concerns.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP) REP. KEVIN CRAMER (R-ND): There have to be guardrails, obviously, on what information he accesses, but more importantly, what he does with it.

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CHURCH: CNN's Rene Marsh talks to a mother of three who is now facing unemployment as her job is targeted.

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UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I keep having to start over.

RENE MARSH, CNN NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT (on camera): And this was not supposed to be the thing that you needed to start over from.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I felt like going to the federal government was a way to find stability over the long term because --

MARSH (voice-over): This woman who spoke with CNN on the condition that she remain anonymous, was in one of the first groups targeted by an executive order, employees connected to DEI programs, a single parent with three kids, school loans, steep rent, and now facing unemployment.

MARSH (on camera): What is the general feeling across government amongst your fellow federal workers right now?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Grief. They're angry. Many that are confused, but all kind of grieving in their own way. The work that many of us do directly impacts the lives of some of our most vulnerable citizens, the people that we serve through these programs that are going to be in far dire straits than we are.

MARSH (voice-over): It's a story playing out across all agencies of the U.S. government, 2.4 million jobs, the country's largest employer now in the Trump administration's crosshairs for a dramatic downsizing.

SEN. CHRIS MURPHY (D-CT): They're shuttering agencies and sending employees home in order to create the illusion that they're saving money.

MARSH (voice-over): CNN has spoken to federal workers at multiple agencies, all who have been placed on administrative leave and are worried about being fired. But even those whose jobs had nothing to do with DEI have been targeted, according to a union president, some because they had participated in diversity training under the first Trump administration. Others had volunteered to plan events like celebrating Black History Month.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: It's a perfect storm. You are sidelining a lot of your federal workers, making them feel fearful. And it's -- it doesn't take long for these systems to kind of break down and for the institutional knowledge that's lost to have, like, real world impacts.

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MARSH (voice-over): At least 75 career employees at the Department of Education face the same fate, also placed on indefinite leave, as the President crafts an executive order that will urge Congress to pass legislation that would shut down the agency. The Trump administration's plan to slash the federal government includes firing employees who have been on the job less than a year, offering buyouts and restructuring job titles, classifying employees as political appointments, making it easier to fire them.

REP. DON BEYER (D-VA): I would characterize it as chaos and just department after department. People have no idea who their leader is, what their job is. Can they come to work tomorrow? It's really the worst thing I've seen in federal government in my life.

MARSH o: How does it feel to be targeted for the work that you're so passionate about? It's OK. You could take your time.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: It actually makes me prouder of the people that I've worked with and the things that we've done.

MARCH (voice-over): Rene Marsh, CNN, Washington.

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CHURCH: Just ahead on CNN NEWSROOM. The latest on the worst mass shooting in Sweden's history, mourners hold a candlelight vigil as police try to figure out a motive.

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CHURCH: Mourners left flowers at a candlelight vigil on Wednesday for the victims of Sweden's worst mass shooting. At least 10 people were killed and six others injured. On Tuesday after a lone gunman opened fire at an adult education center. Police discovered the attacker's body at the scene but they have not named him yet. More now on what police are learning about the gunman. CNN's Melissa Bell has our report.

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MELISSA BELL, CNN PARIS CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): A nation in mourning left reeling after an afternoon of horror on Tuesday.

ULF KRISTERSSON, PRIME MINISTER OF SWEDEN (through translator): We've today seen brutal, deadly violence against completely innocent people. This is the worst mass shooting in Swedish history.

BELL (voice-over): At least 10 people killed with more injured in a massacre at an adult school in the city of Orebro, central Sweden. Witnesses spoke of bangs and screams from inside the building as the Rampage unfolded.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE (through translator): A guy next to me was shot on the shoulder. He was bleeding a lot. When I looked behind me, I saw three people on the floor bleeding. Everyone was shocked. Police were not on site and neither was the ambulance, so we had to help.

BELL (voice-over): Authorities now believe the perpetrator found dead at the scene shot himself. Police have ruled out terror or gang violence as possible motives.

ROBERTO EID FOREST, OREBRO POLICE DISTRICT CHIEF (through translator): There's much to suggest that it's a solitary act, and that's the picture we have right now.

BELL (voice-over): Sweden has grappled with gang-related violent crime in recent years, but seems like those at Orebro are rare. Such violence in a school has stunned the country. In the words of the prime minister, a darkness fell over Sweden on Tuesday night, and as dawn broke, a tide of questions and grief to come.

Melissa Bell, CNN, Orebro.

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CHURCH: Russia has confirmed for the first time that it's discussing Ukraine with the United States. Kremlin Spokesman Dmitry Peskov said talks between the two powers have "intensified recently." On Wednesday, Ukrainian president Volodymyr Zelenskyy also says his government has stepped up talks with the U.S.

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VOLODYMR ZELENSKYY, PRESIDENT OF UKRAINE (through translator): We have significantly intensified our contacts with the U.S. administration. We are also engaging in quite substantive discussions with our other partners. Ukraine needs real, lasting and guaranteed peace.

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CHURCH: Ukrainian prisoners of war held captive by Russia returned home on Wednesday. They were released as part of a prisoner swap. Each side exchanged 150 POWs in a deal mediated by the United Arab Emirates. The Russian

government said their released prisoners are currently in Belarus.

The Vice President of the Philippines was impeached Wednesday after being accused of plotting to assassinate the president. Sarah Duterte is also facing allegations of large-scale corruption and of failing to stand up to Chinese aggression in disputed waters. She did not immediately comment on the impeachment, but her brother called it political persecution. Her supporters are trying to get the case dismissed in the Philippines Senate.

Many of the legislators who launched the impeachment process are allies of President Ferdinand Marcos Jr.

Still to come the long road to recovery in Syria after ousting longtime dictator Bashar al-Assad. We'll look at the daunting task Syrians now face in rebuilding their broken country. (COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[02:29:39]

CHURCH: Tensions are high in Syria as the rebels who topple dictator Bashar al-Assad work to consolidate power. An improvised explosive device was discovered in the city of Manbij on Wednesday, but police dismantled it without any injuries. The city has been hit by seven bombing attacks in recent weeks, including a car bombing that killed 20 people on Monday.

[02:30:04]

It's the deadliest attack in Syria since Assad was ousted in December. And Syria is looking at a long road ahead as it starts to recover from more than a decade of civil war that toppled the Assad regime. The fighting has left more than 300,000 people dead and forced millions from their homes. And as CNN's Clarissa Ward reports, building will be a Herculean task.

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CLARISSA WARD, CNN CHIEF INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: We're just about a 15-minute drive here from central Damascus, and these suburbs of Damascus really were essentially the heart of the uprising against Bashar al-Assad. And you can see how they've just been smashed to bits. They've been bombed. They were besieged. People were starved. They were forcibly displaced.

And now, being here on the ground, you get a sense of the full scale of the devastation, the kind of rebuild and reconstruction that we're talking about. Estimates had been around $250 billion, which once seemed like a figure no one could get their head around. But when you're here on the ground and looking at it, it's clear that it is going to cost hundreds of billions to rebuild.

WARD (voice-over): What's not clear is where those dollars will come from. Syria's economy has been hollowed out by years of war, corruption, and crippling sanctions. In the suburb of Darayya, life has returned to the streets, but making a living is hard. Imad Abu Kalam (ph) runs a shawarma shop. Like most here, he's optimistic about the future, but realistic about the challenges.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: [Foreign Language].

WARD: So he's saying that it's going to take a lot of money and a lot of time to start to really rebuild Darayya.

WARD (voice-over): Much harder to rebuild are the broken lives. Darayya is a town of widows and orphans. Schools are starting to reopen, but few are paying salaries.

WARD: OK. Thank you.

(LAUGH) WARD: According to UNICEF, 2 million children are now not going to school inside Syria. These kids told us that they actually just got out of school, and we're heading now to a place that's been set up by a charity. Essentially, it's a safe space where kids can come and play.

WARD (voice-over): It opened just weeks after the fall of the regime of Bashar al-Assad and is run by INARA, a charity whose work I support that focuses on children affected by war. Child psychologist, Rahaf Al Bayad (ph) says that many of the kids here show signs of aggression and are lacking love and attention at home, a result, she says, of the grinding hardship 12 years of war.

Most women of Darayya are widows, so the mother took the role of the mother and the father, she tells us. So she has to work, support and raise the children. This all affects her wellbeing. As the euphoria of liberation begins to subside, the hard work ahead is becoming clear. And communities like Darayya will need all the support they can get.

Clarissa Ward, CNN, Darayya, Syria.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

CHURCH: Dead bodies have been littering the streets of a major city in the Democratic Republic of Congo as fighting still grips the nation. The U.N. says almost 3,000 people have been killed in Goma, which M23 rebels say they recently captured. So far, U.N. workers say about 2,000 bodies have been collected, but more remains are yet to be retrieved. The rebels declared a unilateral truce on Tuesday, but the U.N. said it's not holding.

Meanwhile, the rebels say they captured another town southwest of Goma on Wednesday. Neighboring Rwanda is being accused of supporting the rebels, but Rwanda's President Paul Kagame told CNN he didn't know if his troops were in the DRC.

Still to come, a scientific breakthrough that could help save endangered species like kangaroos and koalas in Australia. Details after the break.

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[02:38:55]

CHURCH: Welcome back, everyone. Six dairy herds in the U.S. state of Nevada have tested positive for a new bird flu strain that's linked to severe infections in humans. Scientists are studying this specific strain to find out how it is spreading so aggressively. Two severe cases of human infections have been reported so far. One case in Canada where a teenager was hospitalized but later recovered, and the other in Louisiana where the teenager died from the infection.

Well, scientists at the University of Queensland in Australia are celebrating what they call a groundbreaking achievement that could one day help save and reintroduce some endangered species. They say they've successfully produced the world's first kangaroo embryo through in vitro fertilization or IVF. Now, this could be crucial to Australia's conservation efforts. It currently has one of the world's worst extinction records, having reportedly lost at least 33 mammal species since Europeans settled on the inhabited continent.

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The scientists say the technique could be applied to animals threatened with extinction, including koalas, Tasmanian devils, and certain wombats. The researchers say they hope to achieve the birth of a marsupial through IVF within a decade.

I want to thank you so much for joining us. I'm Rosemary Church. "World Sport" is coming up next. Then I'll be back in 15 minutes with more "CNN Newsroom." Do stick around.

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