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White House Respond To Judge Shutting Off DOGE Access To Treasury Department Payment System; Trump Moving Rapidly To Reshape And Downsize Federal Government; Canada's Prime Minister Says Trump Is Serious About 51st State Idea; New York Takes Step To Contain Spread Of Bird Flu; New Orleans Readies For Super Bowl With Tight Security; New Documentary Sheds Light On Global Rise Of Anti-Semitism; Millions Brace For Dire Impact Of Trump Plan To Gut USAID; "Kobe: The Making Of A Legend" Final Episode Tonight At 9PM ET/PT On CNN. Aired 7-8p ET

Aired February 08, 2025 - 19:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[19:00:00]

WAGMEISTER: Back to you.

JESSICA DEAN, CNN HOST: Elizabeth Wagmeister, thanks so much.

A new hour of CNN starts right now.

You are in the CNN NEWSROOM. I'm Jessica Dean in New York.

In 20 days into his second term, President Trump and his administration facing pushback from the legal system as Trump and his allies move to dramatically downsize the federal government. Earlier today a federal judge blocking Elon Musk's DOGE agency from continuing to access the Treasury Department's central payment system.

Now that's the system that's used to send out tax returns, Social Security benefits and disability payments, as well as federal workers' salaries.

CNN's Betsy Klein is joining us now from West Palm Beach, Florida.

And, Betsy, the White House has since responded to that ruling. What are they saying tonight?

BETSY KLEIN, CNN SENIOR WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: That's exactly right, Jessica. Well, President Trump ran and won on this idea of slashing waste, fraud and abuse in the federal government. And he has installed Elon Musk and the so-called DOGE, Department of Government Efficiency, to take that task at hand.

Now that DOGE staffers have started going into different parts of the federal government, different departments, and accessing different systems, including this very sensitive Treasury Department payment system. Now, New York Attorney General Letitia James, along with 18 other state attorneys general, filed a lawsuit contending that Musk's associates, who are qualified as federal special government employees, excuse me, were unlawfully granted access to that sensitive treasury system. And then a federal judge ruled that temporarily restricting the DOGE

team from the system, citing risks to sensitive and confidential information as well as vulnerability to hacking. But the White House is lambasting that ruling. A spokesperson, Harrison Fields, telling CNN in a statement, quote, "These frivolous lawsuits are akin to children throwing pasta at the wall to see if it will stick. Grandstanding government efficiency speaks volumes about those who'd rather delay much needed change with legal shenanigans than work with the Trump administration on ridding the federal government of waste, fraud and abuse."

Now, for his part, President Trump appears to be pleased with the work that Musk and his team are doing. Take a look.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: Mr. President, I wonder what you make of the criticism from Democrats that these staff reductions, the cuts that Elon Musk and DOGE are doing are unlawful power grab? Is there anything you've told Elon Musk he cannot touch?

DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: Well, we haven't discussed that much. I'll tell him to go here, go there. He does it. He's got a very capable group of people. Very, very, very, very capable. They know what they're doing. They'll ask questions and they'll see immediately as somebody gets tongue tied that they're either crooked or don't know what they're doing.

We have very smart people going in. So I've instructed him, go into education, go into military, go into other things.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

KLEIN: Now Trump and his team have confidence in their ability to fight this lawsuit in court. The next hearing is scheduled for Friday, February 14th -- Jessica.

DEAN: And Betsy, the White House also dealing with a separate setback in their effort to dismantle the U.S. Agency for International Development, USAID. Where does that stand tonight?

KLEIN: That's right. Well, President Trump has sort of fundamentally sought to restructure how the U.S. approaches humanitarian aid across the globe and has been working to gut USAID, that key humanitarian agency. This started with an executive order back on day one, asking the U.S. to reevaluate its federal foreign aid spending. Then we started to see USAID projects halted and suspended across the globe.

And then a temporary leadership for the department announced all direct hires would be placed on leave just before midnight on Friday. Now that would leave about 300 essential staffers from a workforce of 10,000 people. But a federal judge in Washington and I should note, a conservative federal judge, halted that, issuing an order temporarily blocking more than 2,000 USAID staffers from being placed on administrative leave. Now, that, of course, is welcome for USAID employees. But of course,

there's a lot of uncertainty going forward, particularly as President Trump has said that the agency is run by, quote, "radical lunatics." But all of this underscores Trump remaking and reshaping U.S. foreign aid. And really, a lot of questions going forward about this tool for soft power and who might fill the vacuum in the absence of U.S. leadership on this issue -- Jessica.

DEAN: All right. Betsy Klein, thank you so much.

And joining us now is national reporter for the "Washington Post," Toluse Olorunnipa.

Toluse, thanks so much for being here with us. As Betsy was just kind of giving points about, Trump is moving very quickly and effectively in his first weeks back in office. But we are now starting to see some pushback from the courts.

[19:05:01]

Do you think that's been part of their strategy all along, knowing that all of this or a lot of this is probably going to end up in the courts?

TOLUSE OLORUNNIPA, NATIONAL REPORTER, THE WASHINGTON POST: Well, Trump and his team had the presidency for four years, and they saw themselves blocked by the courts on a number of different fronts. And they realized that they're going to have to have this fight, so they might as well have it as quickly as possible. He's a one-term president at this point because he only has one term left that he can run. And he's realizing that if he wants to get a lot done, he's going to need to do it very quickly.

And so we have seen him take some of these fights with a lot of disregard for what the law says and what the courts might say, and basically dare the courts, dare his opponents to sue him and block him from doing it. And it took a while, but we're starting to see some of the judges say, no, you can't do that. No, you need to follow the law in a certain way. And so he is starting to run into some roadblocks.

But if you just look at what he's been able to accomplish over the past three weeks, it's been pretty significant in terms of what he's been able to do across the federal government with Elon Musk and his team at DOGE. And it's clear that even if the courts slow this down, that a lot is going to be happening and it may overwhelm what the courts and what the opponents of this effort are able to do by filing lawsuits. A lot of this will already be done before the courts can weigh in.

DEAN: Yes, and the White House tonight, as Betsy was saying, calling the judge's order, quote, "judicial overreach," on that Treasury Department ruling, Musk's DOGE, blocking them from accessing that that payment system. And Trump appears to be standing by Musk when he had questioned -- when some have questioned how long that support might last, and he said that things are going well.

What is the sense that you're getting about that relationship?

OLORUNNIPA: Right now it seems like things are going well. Trump is happy that Musk is going in and really making a lot of change and moving at lightning speed. One of his big frustrations during his first four years in office was that it took too long to get things done, that people stopped him and said, oh, no, you can't do that. Musk seems to be trying to push things forward even when it's legally dubious. And so Trump appreciates that.

But at the same time, Trump, as you heard in his answer, wants to make sure that he is the one getting the credit. He said that I am the one that deploys Musk and his team to go at different agencies and not allow Musk to get the credit.

Now, you probably saw the "TIME" magazine cover, which had Musk at the resolute desk in the Oval Office. That is something that Trump and the people in his orbit are not happy to see because they don't want Trump to be overshadowed by the richest man in the world. And so while the relationship at this moment seems to be on sure footing, it remains to be seen how long that will last, especially as it seems that Musk is doing more and moving more quickly and getting more credit for some of the changes that are happening in the federal government than even Trump is in some of these cases. And so I think that's something that we'll have to watch very closely as time goes by.

DEAN: Yes. And what's another interesting piece of that, too, is that Musk can act as a heat shield in some way as Americans, you know, begin to feel the impacts of some of these changes that are being made. I wonder how much of that blame, if there is blame, and it's not praise, it's blame that needs to be passed around, if he might act as a heat shield in that way, too?

OLORUNNIPA: I think that's what the Trump folks are hoping. They are hoping that he is able to sort of be surgical with some of these cuts and try to make sure that the people that supported Donald Trump aren't harmed by some of these changes. But when you take a meat cleaver to the federal government and all of these various agencies, there's no doubt going to be collateral damage, including on the people who voted for Trump, people who supported Trump, who might see themselves being impacted by these significant changes, these significant cuts, these programs that could be on the chopping block, that help people who voted for Trump, as well as people who voted against Trump.

And so I think that's something that the Trump folks are hoping that they will be shielded from some of the backlash from this. But at the end of the day, even, you know, regardless of who's on the "TIME" magazine cover, it is Donald Trump at the Resolute Desk, and he is the one who has to say the buck stops with me. So if people are unhappy with some of the things that are happening at DOGE, and we have heard that thousands upon thousands of people are calling their Congress members to raise flags and say that they're unhappy with and concerned about what's happening with their private data, potentially in the hands of these unelected bureaucrats. That's something that will potentially impact Trump's own popularity. And so he's the president, and he's going to be the person that people

look to as they see changes in their lives coming down from the federal government. And so he may try to use Musk as a heat shield. But if some of these changes have a harsh impact on people who voted for Trump, those people are going to be looking to Trump to either halt those changes or make a different approach from what Musk has been putting forward.

And so I wouldn't be surprised if some of these changes land with a lot of unpopularity among certain groups and if Trump decides to make a different approach after that happens.

[19:10:07]

DEAN: And then there's the Congress piece of this all and his agenda and how they're going to push this through. And the questions around how that's going to happen, right, and how effectively can the Republicans get this legislation through. And we know they have that incredibly long meeting at the White House where they were trying to sort through how they're going to proceed. How is that shaping up?

OLORUNNIPA: Well, so far it's been Trump using executive action and really bypassing Congress to do a lot of the things that he has wanted to do over the past several weeks. But if he wants to have a lasting legacy, he knows that he's going to have to pass legislation. He's got these tax cuts that are scheduled to expire at the end of the year that he wants to extend, and a number of other things that he promised on the campaign trail that he needs Congress to act on.

And so far, there's been a lot of debate and discussion among the Republicans, with their narrow majorities trying to figure out between the House and the Senate, what approach to take. Trump hasn't yet leaned in on one side or the other, whether to go for one big, beautiful bill or for two different bills and break up his agenda across two bills. But it seems like the House and the Senate are in very different positions on what to do, and it will probably require some presidential leadership.

And right now, Trump seems to be much more focused on using his executive action, working through Elon Musk to get a lot of changes and not so much focused on Congress, where he's had a lot of frustration, especially in his first term where he wasn't able to get a lot of the things done that he wanted to get done, including repealing Obamacare. He saw Congress block him on that. And so he is hoping that Congress will be able to get its act together. But in the meantime, he's moving with executive action in a more ambitious way than we've seen any president in recent memory.

DEAN: Yes. Toluse, thanks so much for being here. We appreciate it.

OLORUNNIPA: Thank you.

DEAN: President Trump has been floating the idea of Canada becoming a U.S. state, and many originally brushed off those remarks as a joke. But Canadian Prime Minister Justin Trudeau is not laughing, not treating it as a joke. He was overheard telling a business gathering Trump is serious.

CNN's Paula Newton has that story.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

PAULA NEWTON, CNN INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: While many considered this a hot mic moment, in true fact, the prime minister has been warning people since he visited Trump in November after he was re- elected that the president is serious. He doesn't understand why Canada can't just become the 51st state, and he will continue to try and press that argument.

Now, this was a conference of business and labor leaders, where they are all getting together to try to really formulate a plan and how to fight a proposed American tariffs. But I want you to listen now to Justin Trudeau, as he was addressing that room when he thought the media had left. Listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JUSTIN TRUDEAU, CANADIAN PRIME MINISTER: Mr. Trump has it in mind that the easiest way to do it is absorbing our country and it is a real thing.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

NEWTON: Now when he says it's a real thing, he is saying, look, the president is clear that this is a threat, that you come to the table, you negotiate a new trade deal with us along terms that we have asked for, or we will continue to push for this. And how does the Canadian government believe the American government will now push for this? By basically driving a very hard bargain economically, by punishing Canada economically, so that the only option left for Canada is to join the United States as a 51st state.

I was speaking to people who were in the room as Trudeau was making this kind of an announcement, and really trying to find a way to make sure that there is resolve from business and labor leaders in the room. They described the meeting as collaborative, but also that many people are now focusing on this in Canada and understanding that it is a real worry.

Paula Newton, CNN, Ottawa.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

DEAN: All right. Paula, thank you.

And New York health officials making a surprising move to stem the potential spread of bird flu after detecting several cases of the virus. More on that when we come back.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[19:18:43] DEAN: Some breaking news into CNN. The NTSB saying it has now recovered all major pieces of wreckage from the collision of that American Airlines plane and Army helicopter near Washington, D.C. The wreckage from the two aircraft have been taken to a secure airport facility for further examination. That's what a safety officials have said. The crash took place on the night of January 29th over the Potomac River near Reagan National Airport, and 67 people died in that crash. It is the deadliest air disaster in the U.S. since 2001.

We are following growing alarm tonight in New York City after officials say 15 birds from two city zoos died after possibly coming into contact with the bird flu. Governor Kathy Hochul taking the extraordinary step of temporarily shutting down dozens of live bird markets in New York City and bordering counties.

CNN national correspondent Gloria Pazmino is following the latest developments on this -- Gloria.

GLORIA PAZMINO, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, Jessica, the governor's order requires that a live poultry markets like the one here behind me closed for the next several days and go through a very specific cleanup and disinfection process as well as having to be inspected before they are allowed to reopen on February 14th. Now the reason the governor has issued this order she says is a precautionary measure.

[19:20:01]

But over the last several days, there have been seven cases of bird flu reported here in the state of New York. The governor's order stretches to New York City to Nassau County and Long Island, as well as Suffolk County. The seven cases were found in markets in Queens, in the Bronx, and in Brooklyn.

Now this market here behind me has been open all day. I spoke to the people in it. They said that they are working through their inventory. They have no cases of bird flu that have been detected here. Once they are gone, once they're done going through their inventory, they will clean up and sanitize closed for several days and then be allowed to reopen as long as they pass inspection.

Again, the governor emphasizing that there is no threat to the public at this stage, but that the state is doing this in order to prevent any more spread. Take a listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

GOV. KATHY HOCHUL (D), NEW YORK: For a week long period, no poultry can be delivered to those live bird markets. Each uninfected market must sell down all inventory, undergo thorough cleaning and disinfection, and then remain closed for at least five days. Each must then be inspected by our state egg and markets before they can reopen.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

PAZMINO: Now, Jessica, while there is no threat to the public health so far, according to health officials, cases overall have increased in the last several months. A total of 130 cases have been detected across the country, and 67 people have become ill as a result of the virus. One person died last year. We should mention that nearly everyone who became infected with the virus had been in close contact with infected animals.

As long as the markets here in New York and in the surrounding area go through the cleanup and disinfection process, they will be allowed to reopen on February 14th -- Jessica.

DEAN: Gloria Pazmino, thanks for that reporting.

And this is just in to CNN. A tsunami warning has been issued after a magnitude 7.6 earthquake in the Caribbean. That warning is for Puerto Rico and the Virgin Islands. The earthquake occurring 20 miles north of Honduras in the last hour. Tsunami waves have not been confirmed, but officials are monitoring that threat. And we're of course going to keep an eye on this. We'll bring you any updates as we get them.

Still ahead, we are live from the French Quarter, where law enforcement from every level is out in force to make sure that the Big Easy stays very safe for Super Bowl weekend.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[19:26:52]

DEAN: Safety is front and center for city officials in New Orleans with the Super Bowl now less than 24 hours away from kickoff. It comes, of course, just over a month after a terrorist attack on Bourbon Street killed 14 people.

CNN senior national correspondent Ryan Young is joining us now from New Orleans.

We see the blinking lights behind you there, Ryan. What does law enforcement presence look like?

RYAN YOUNG, CNN SENIOR NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Yes, it's unreal at this point. Jessica. We've seen drones. We've seen helicopters. We've seen fighter jets in the skies here, along with a heavy ground presence of officers. The flashing lights extend more than two miles down the road here. Talking to federal officials, a lot of them say they've never seen a footprint of security like this ever before in their careers. Homeland Security is standing here.

This is the street that that truck took a turn down on New Year's and left all that carnage with the people who were killed here, 14 dead, 35 injured. You understand why they tried to increase security to make sure people are safe? I can tell you at least 100,000 people were expected to come for the Super Bowl. This street is packed on the other side with fans who are getting ready for that Super Bowl game.

When we were standing out here a little earlier, we actually saw the mayor of Kansas City. We asked him about what he thought about the plans not only for this Super Bowl, but the security that he's even experiencing as he's walking the streets. Take a listen. (BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

MAYOR QUINTON LUCAS, KANSAS CITY, MISSOURI: You know what? I feel safe. I knew after the previous tragedy they would come up with a plan that makes sure that they address all of the different challenges that you face in a big event in a major city like this one. I think they've done a wonderful job. You look down the street. You see the obvious presence, but people are still able to have fun. And I think that's a tough balance to hit. They're doing it right here in New Orleans. I commend everybody who's been a part of that.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

YOUNG: Look, this is a beautiful city. It's hosted 11 Super Bowls, the most of any city in America. They really wanted to make a statement here with not only the security for this game, but Mardi Gras. And they actually say Mardi Gras is one of the events here that's almost like having two Super Bowls in a time because of its monthlong celebration.

So one of the things as you notice, Jessica, as you're walking through the streets here, is just the layer upon layer of law enforcement. We went to a couple of hotels today that have some officials in it, and you could see some of the K-9 bomb dogs in the area to make sure that as people were walking through, they weren't bringing anything.

The bollard system have been set up on streets that normally don't have them. So it is restricting access all over the city. The traffic here is a mess at this point, so it's better to walk around, but they believe they are prepared for the Super Bowl. When you add on the fact that the president is coming tomorrow, they know tomorrow is going to even be a bigger day. We saw Mike Johnson here a little earlier.

So much going on, Jessica. Of course we'll be here covering this. And of course the big Super Bowl. So many fans waiting for that to kick off tomorrow at 6:30 as well.

DEAN: All right. Ryan Young in New Orleans, thanks so much for that.

Three more Israeli hostages tearfully reunited with their families after Hamas released them from captivity. Plus, the new plea from the family of an American hostage killed in Gaza as they pressed the Trump administration to get the remaining hostages home.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[19:34:41]

DEAN: In the Middle East, the gradual process of exchanging prisoners between Israel and Hamas continues, including the release of hostages for the Israelis and prisoners on the Palestinian side. However, the parents of slain Israeli-American hostage, Hersh Goldberg-Polin are urging President Donald Trump to reconsider the current approach.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP) RACHEL GOLDBERG-POLIN, MOTHER OF HERSH GOLDBERG-POLIN: We received the wonderful news that Eli, Or, and Ohad were released today. We also felt this real connection to Or and his family, because Or and Hersh were both kidnapped together from the same bomb shelter on the same pickup truck on October 7th.

[19:35:22]

And in fact, Or's brother, Michael, contacted us right after Shabbat today to tell us that one of Or's first questions he asked his brother this morning was, how is Hersh doing? Because he had assumed that Hersh had been released long ago and his brother had to explain to him that Hersh had been murdered five months ago.

JON POLIN, FATHER OF HERSH GOLDBERG-POLIN: Seeing the condition of these three hostages, hearing that Or had no idea what happened to Hersh. That Eli was unaware of the fate of his wife and his daughters is just a gut punch to all of us that we need to do more.

And I'm turning directly to President Trump and to Mr. Witkoff, you have shown that you are the only ones who have been able to get this situation moving.

Moving forward, my plea to you, our plea to you right now, is now that you've done the hard part of getting movement, getting a deal started. Let's not think about phase one and phase two and phase three in many months. Let's think bigger and faster. All 76 hostages out this week, end of war. Who benefits from dragging it out for so long? Not the people of this region. Let's get it done right now. Thank you.

R. POLIN: Godspeed.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

DEAN: For now, the ceasefire deal continues with today's release of 183 Palestinian prisoners. And again, the three Israeli hostages being released who had been held by Hamas for 491 days.

One person speaking out since October 8th, has faced online abuse for her activism. Hollywood star, Debra Messing, speaking with CNN's Elizabeth Wagmeister about the stand that she took and the torrent of hate she says she's received for it.

(BEGIN VIDEO TAPE)

DEBRA MESSING, AMERICAN ACTRESS: It really has awakened in me a pride and a strength. I think that was laying dormant and I think was, I was too scared to reveal.

ELIZABETH WAGMEISTER, ENTERTAINMENT CORRESPONDENT (voice over): Debra Messing is talking about this, the October 7th attack on Israel. In her year of activism that followed.

MESSING: Hello.

ISRAELI SOLDIER: Hello. MESSING: I'm Debra.

WAGMEISTER (voice over): Including traveling to Israel and Gaza to meet with Israeli soldiers and victims of the attack.

MESSING: I felt compelled to go and to bear witness so that I could come back and share their stories and not be called a liar.

WAGMEISTER: Messing has been called a lot worse, as many social media users have taken aim at her unflinching pro-Israel stance. It's a much different identity for Messing than her time starring on the hit comedy "Will and Grace."

MESSING: But apparently I wasn't good enough for your kabobs.

WAGMEISTER (voice over): Messing feels she's on an island in Hollywood with the Israel-Gaza war becoming a flashpoint that much of the industry has been reluctant to take on. Like when Messing and other Jewish figures in the entertainment business launched a campaign calling on the US government to prioritize the return of the hostages.

MESSING: And People wouldn't sign it.

WAGMEISTER (voice over): She talks about it in the new documentary "October 8," out March 14th in theaters, which takes a critical look at the explosion of antisemitism around the world following October 7th.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: They're taking the kidnapped posters down.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Israel, that's --

WAGMEISTER: Messing executive produced the film.

MESSING: I have been an activist for 25 years, and I have marched and stood behind every leader of every marginalized community that has been seeking equity and inclusion. The thing that I had to mourn the most is what the fact that when I look to my right and my left, the people who I supported were not with me.

WAGMEISTER: One of the first celebrities to speak up about the Hamas attack on Israel, Messing has used her voice on social media, but this is her first television interview since October 7th. She's joined by the documentary's director, Wendy Sachs.

WENDY SACHS, DIRECTOR: How did we get to this moment, this explosive time between social media and media bias that have sort of portrayed this whole situation as a fight against Israel rather than a fight against terrorism?

WAGMEISTER (on camera): How difficult has it been for you to secure distribution for this film?

SACHS: I've been told by pretty much every agent and every agency in Hollywood, great film. No one's going to touch it. WAGMEISTER (voice over): With the death toll in Gaza, over 45,000, the pair don't hide from those who lay the blame on Israel for the staggering death toll.

[19:40:15]

MESSING: What is happening in Gaza is devastating. Any loss of life is devastating. War is devastating. The thing that has been very hard to understand is how people can't seem to hold two things at once, how you can be pro-Palestinian and pro-Israel at the same time.

WAGMEISTER (voice over): Messing says despite the ridicule she's received, her activism won't stop.

MESSING: All of that hate just washes over me and it doesn't touch me anymore.

SACHS: Debra has the courage that I haven't seen in so many others, and I applaud her for that.

MESSING: One of the most beautiful parts of Judaism for me is that it is always about finding the light in the dark and bringing light into the dark. I believe that that can change everything.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

DEAN: Elizabeth Wagmeister thanks so much for that.

Still ahead, the real world impact of Trump's effort to dismantle an agency focused on fostering goodwill toward America. Why, officials tell CNN people around the world could die if USAID is dismantled?

You're in the CNN NEWSROOM.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[19:46:12]

DEAN: The fight continues tonight over the US Agency for International Development. A federal judge pausing part of President Trump's attempt to put thousands of its workers on leave. It has become a target for Trump and Elon Musk. Musk, who insists it is a waste of taxpayer dollars.

USAID providing life-saving resources for millions of people around the world, humanitarian aid, fighting disease and poverty, and responding with help after natural disasters.

Despite the judge's ruling, people who rely on the agency are very worried about its uncertain future.

CNN's Larry Madowo reports.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

SAMUEL LINDA, RELYING ON USAID LIFE SAVING DRUGS: I feel traumatized. I feel low.

LARRY MADOWO, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice over): Thirty-six-year-old Samuel Linda has been living with HIV since 2014, getting his life saving drugs from a USAID project. But his supplies are almost out.

LINDA: I feel like the world is ending tomorrow because I don't know where I'm going to go. I don't know by tomorrow if I'll be alive or dead.

MADOWO (voice over): He distributes US-funded condoms in his community. To stop new infections and make sure the infected keep taking their medications. Meanwhile, patients at this USAID-funded facility in the Ugandan Capital, Kampala, wait, hoping their treatments are still available.

Nearly 1,000 employees here have been followed after the US stop-work orders. It's still running for now, though no one knows for how much longer. Its leader, Dr. Andrew Kambugu, is a UC Berkeley alum who is grateful for American generosity but worries about the future for his staff and patients.

DR. ANDREW KAMBUGU, EXECUTIVE DIRECTOR, INFECTIOUS DISEASES INSTITUTE, UGANDA: We are in the throes of an Ebola outbreak and before the Ebola outbreak, Uganda is grappling with an Mpox outbreak. So, we find ourselves in a situation where a number of infectious diseases have converged.

MADOWO (on camera): USAID is a lifeline to millions here, millions who would be stuck without it. These are thank you notes from patients here to the medical team at the Infectious Diseases Institute in Uganda. They cover HIV, TB and mpox and even the current Ebola outbreak, the country's eighth.

The implication is that US funding has kept patients like these ones alive.

MADOWO (voice over): The US is one of Uganda's largest donors, spending more than half a billion dollars in health care alone every year.

More than a third of USAID funds came to Africa in 2023. Those dollars saved lives, but also supported many Americans.

WINNIE BYANYIMA, EXECUTIVE DIRECTOR, USAID: Without US funding, people die. Without global collaboration, people die.

MADOWO (voice over):Winnie Byanyima runs the global response to the AIDS epidemic. They warn that up to 6.3 million people could die by 2029 if the US cuts off funding. Americans will also lose out.

BYANYIMA: Actually, sometimes I say we have the diseases, they have the profits. They make money, the aid connects them to markets and markets benefit American companies and American jobs are created at home.

MADOWO (on camera): So, USAID is not just charity to African countries.

BYANYIMA: No, no, no, it's mutually beneficial.

MADOWO (voice over): But the negative sentiment isn't one that's shared by all of Africa's leaders. In an exclusive interview with CNN, Rwanda's president says the continent has to wean itself off aid.

PAUL KAGAME, RWANDAN PRESIDENT: President Trump's unconventional ways of doing things, I completely disagree with him on many things.

MADOWO (on camera): Even though it will hurt you as Rwanda, which depends on some USAID to fund your health care and development.

KAGAME: We might learn some lessons.

MADOWO (voice over): Self-sufficient countries might sound ideal in theory, but it brings little comfort to the millions across the world whose very survival hangs in the balance.

Larry Madowo, CNN, Kampala, Uganda.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

[19:50:15]

DEAN: Larry, thank you. We have more for you when we come back.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

DEAN: Tonight's finale episode of "KOBE: The Making of a Legend" details his life as the ultimate girl dad, focusing his time and energy on his growing family and eventually finding a passion for storytelling with the Oscar winning animated film, "Dear Basketball." Here's a preview.

[19:55:14]

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JACKIE MACMULLAN, SPORTSWRITER AND NBA COLUMNIST: Kobe had just enough left in the tank to script his own ending

KOBE BRYANT, AMERICAN PROFESSIONAL BASKETBALL PLAYER: Hopefully we can make this night some type of celebration where I can give them something. Where they're not thinking about the fact that this is my last game, where they're just thinking about this a hell of a game to watch.

GARRY VITTI, LAKERS ATHLETIC TRAINER: He'd come off the bench and he'd just be absolutely exhausted, and I knew it. He was looking at me and I'm looking at him. And I said, you had enough? He goes, no. I'm going to go till I drop -- and he dropped 60.

MACMULLAN: So yes, I'm walking away from the game, but don't think I am old and decrepit. I'm walking away because I'm ready to do something else. UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Kobe, 60 points for the sixth time in his career and in his final game.

BRYANT: Tonight, I am trying to go out. I'm playing hard and try to put on a show as much as I possibly could and, it felt good to be able to do that one last time. It's a dream.

ANTHONY GILBERT, FAMILY FRIEND: I was actually nervous for Kobe in his career because I thought to myself, what are you going to do after basketball?

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DEAN: Be sure to tune in, "KOBE: The Making of A Legend." The final episode airs tonight at 9:00 PM Eastern Pacific only on CNN.

If you happen to be planning a summer vacation, might you consider North Korea?

Kim Jong-un has apparently begun efforts to transform a remote town near the border of Russia and China into a must-see vacation destination. But is it worth the effort of applying for a special US passport just to go or the risk?

CNN's senior international correspondent Will Ripley takes a look at the secretive country's tourism plans.

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WILL RIPLEY, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT (voice over): Even by North Korean standards, Rason is not exactly a tourism hotspot. A remote. Economic zone, closer to China and Russia than the capital, Pyongyang.

Rason is known for its shoe factory and banking system. There's also a textile factory and sea cucumber breeding farm. A typical workday includes outdoor exercise, weather permitting.

In almost any other place, tourists probably wouldn't be lining up for the chance to open a bank account. But this is North Korea, the secret state has chosen Rason as its first post-pandemic destination for western tourists, allegedly.

SIMON COCKERELL, GM, KORYO TOURS: Will it happen next week? Entirely possible. But will it be delayed? Entirely possible.

RIPLEY (voice over): Longtime tour operator, Simon Cockerell knows there are no guarantees when it comes to North Korea. Simon has made nearly 200 trips, he says traveling there is not for everyone.

COCKERELL: You're choosing a highly restrictive time and a very complicated country on a trip that your family will be worried about.

RIPLEY (voice over): And some say, for good reason. American college student, Otto Warmbier was sentenced to 15 years of hard labor, accused of stealing a propaganda poster from his Pyongyang Hotel. After 17 months in detention, he returned home in a persistent vegetative state and died days later.

The State Department has banned US tourists from visiting North Korea ever since.

RIPLEY (on camera): What's the number one thing you tell people not to do when they visit North Korea?

COCKERELL: Don't cross the ties religiously, it's illegal. Don't break any law, regardless of whether you agree with it or not. Simple as that.

RIPLEY (voice over): Not as simple for some anyway, the question, should tourists go?

RIPLEY (on camera): What do you say to critics who argue people's money is basically supporting a regime and its illegal nuclear program?

COCKERELL: It's not really supporting any of those things, because the state of North Korea does not stand or fall on tourism revenue. If it did, it would no longer exist.

RIPLEY (voice over): For the past year, North Korea has only allowed Russian tourists to visit. Soon, maybe a handful of visitors from the West, arriving just in time for one of North Korea's biggest holidays, the late Kim Jong-il's birthday.

RIPLEY (on camera): For now, only a handful of Western tourists are expected to be allowed back in if this happens, and we don't know if this is the beginning of a wider reopening, or perhaps just an extremely limited test run, thus putting them in such an isolated city.

But one thing that we are noticing is that Chinese tourists have yet to return, which is interesting because you have a lot of Russian visitors, but no Chinese tourists back yet since the pandemic. Some say that may be a sign of Beijing's growing displeasure with Pyongyang's deepening ties with Moscow.

Will Ripley, CNN, Taipei.

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DEAN: All right, Will, thank you very much.

And I want to thank you for joining me tonight. I'm Jessica Dean. I'm going to see you again tomorrow night starting at 5:00 Eastern.

An encore presentation of HBO's "Real Time with Bill Maher" starts right now. Have a wonderful night, everybody.