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Hamas Set to Release Three Israelis; Israel to Free 180+ Prisoners; Judge Halts Dismissal of USAID Workers. Aired 3-4a ET
Aired February 08, 2025 - 03:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
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UNIDENTIFIED MALE (voice-over): This is CNN breaking news.
JOHN VAUSE, CNN ANCHOR (voice-over): Hello, I'm John Vause in Atlanta with breaking news from the Middle East.
Three more Israeli hostages in Gaza are expected to be released soon by the militant group Hamas in exchange for almost 200 Palestinian prisoners serving time in Israeli jails. This will be the fifth exchange since a ceasefire took effect three weeks ago.
Masked Hamas fighters are gathering around a stage in the central Gaza town of Deir al-Balah ahead of that release. That will be Or Levy, Eli Sharabi and Ohad Ben Ami, three civilian men who will be released after being held for 490 days.
And they will join 13 Israeli hostages and five Thai nationals who've already been set free during the first phase of a multi-phase peace plan. Hamas has agreed to release 33 Israeli hostages in all over six weeks, while Israel at the same time will free almost 2,000 Palestinian prisoners.
Earlier this week, talks began on the next stage of the ceasefire, which will address the postwar future of Gaza. Those negotiations are expected to be fraught with many challenges. Our coverage begins with CNN's Salma Abdelaziz standing by live in London. Also, Jeremy Diamond live in Tel Aviv.
And Jeremy, first to you, the question here is one of timing. The release of the hostages in terms of timing was always fluid.
Is there an update on when this should happen?
And when it does happen, how will it play out?
JEREMY DIAMOND, CNN JERUSALEM CORRESPONDENT: Well, it could really happen any moment now. John. We have seen the Hamas militants arriving in Deir al-Balah, setting up the square there, where we expect they will release those hostages into the custody of the International Red Cross.
Red Cross vehicles have arrived on the scene as well. And so we do expect that this handover will happen very shortly.
A reminder on the three hostages who we are expecting to be released today. They are Eli Sharabi, who is now 52 years old. He was kidnapped from Kibbutz Beeri by Hamas. We also have Ohad Ben Ami, who is 56, also from Kibbutz Beeri.
And then Or Levy, a 34 year old who was attending the Nova music festival alongside his wife on October 7th when Hamas carried out its brutal attack. On that day, his wife was sadly killed in that attack.
But he is returning to a 3 year old son who has spent about half of his life without his father and is now waiting to be reunited with him.
For Eli Sharabi, he will also be returning to a very different reality than the one he knew on October 7th. His wife and his two daughters were killed on that day and his brother, who was also taken hostage, died in captivity, likely killed by an Israeli airstrike, according to the Israeli military.
And one of the questions that has been so difficult for some of these families as they await the return of their loved ones, obviously there is going to be tremendous joy and an incredible feeling as they are reunited after more than 15 months apart.
But there is also the side of having to perhaps tell their loved ones about all that has occurred since then.
Whether or not Eli Sharabi knows that his wife and his two daughters have been killed or whether his last surviving brother, Sharon, who has agonized over this, whether he will have to be the one to inform his brother that his wife and children were killed, that his brother was also killed in captivity.
Just so much uncertainty at capping off what has really been 15 months of a roller coaster of agonizing emotions for these families.
But today, at least, a joyful moment as we are seeing hundreds of people beginning to gather behind me here in Hostage Square to watch this moment when these three hostages emerge from captivity, a moment of waiting for this entire nation.
VAUSE: Jeremy, thank you. Let's go to Salma in London.
With regards to the other side of this deal, which would be the Palestinian prisoner release, as almost 200 prisoners who will be released as part of this deal are, how does that work?
What time will that happen?
And, of course, there are Palestinian families who've not seen these, their relatives who've been kept in Israeli jails for years.
SALMA ABDELAZIZ, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Yes. So we don't have timing. And often that's the difficulty for families, is they wait for many, many hours, sometimes into the night, before they actually see the release take place.
We already know that families are arriving. Our team on the ground at the Rafah border crossing is seeing families arriving at the European hospital there. Now that's where these Palestinians who are going to be released and sent back into Gaza.
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They're expected to arrive first at that hospital, the European Hospital in Rafah, for treatment and assessment before returning. So those families are already there waiting for that possibility.
Broader picture here, you have 183 Palestinians held in Israeli prisons, who are going to be released today. That's the expectation; 111 of those 183 will be sent to Gaza -- actually, I'm so sorry. That's 130 sent to Gaza. You have 46 going to the West Bank and seven who are going to Egypt.
So you begin to understand just how complex these negotiations are when you have to assess where each individual will be released to. About 111 of these prisoners were detained after October 7th, so they may not even know the fate of their homes and their families in the past.
This is the fifth release. As you know, in the past, we've seen in these releases minors, political activists, journalists being released alongside, of course, those accused of very violent crimes. So there's going to be very strong moments of reunion, very strong images of reunion.
But, of course, all of this takes place at an extremely uncertain time. Now they will be released from a prison in the occupied West Bank, the Ofer prison. And in the past, Israel has prevented families from gathering outside the prison.
But that has essentially ended up happening anyway. So that will also be another location there to keep our eyes on, just outside that prison, to see this unfold.
VAUSE: Salma, stay with us.
Jeremy, to you, we know that the three Israelis being released today, three men, they're all civilians. My understanding was that, in this first phase of hostage release, we were looking at the elderly women and the sick.
is it a surprise that we're having three men released at this stage?
DIAMOND: Well, we expected that this phase one of 33 hostages being released would begin with women being released. Then those female soldiers, which we saw in that second release. And then you would begin to move to men; over the age of 50 is the criterion and men who are considered sick and or wounded.
So today we have two men over the age of 50. So that tracks. Or Levy is 34 years old and the fact that he is being released indicates that he is being released under humanitarian conditions, meaning that he is likely either sick or wounded. We don't have a lot of information about the extent to which he was wounded on October 7th.
Of course, we do know that a number of the hostages suffered injuries on that day, whether they were shot or otherwise suffered other types of injuries from that day. So there is a very strong possibility that he is experiencing some kind of condition that requires his release.
Of course, these hostages have been held for more than 15 months, many of them not seeing the light of day for months on end, being held in cramped conditions in Hamas tunnels underneath Gaza.
We know that Or Levy is quite tall, for example. That was one of the concerns of his family, how he was dealing with those cramped conditions when -- I believe that he's something like 6'4", 6'3". So we don't know the exact extent of his condition.
But we will, of course, learn very shortly, as he is released, what kind of health he is in and whether that was part of why he's being released today.
VAUSE: Also at this hour, Jeremy, military helicopters apparently arriving at the southern Israeli military base of Reim. That's where the Gaza division has been housed. It was briefly controlled by Hamas on October 7th during that attack.
So what does this now say about the imminent release of these Israeli hostages?
And once they arrive at the Reim military base, where do they go?
DIAMOND: Yes, this is part of the kind of choreography that we have witnessed week over week that has gotten smoother as the weeks have gone on, as more of these releases have happened. Helicopters landing there indicates that they are getting ready to receive those hostages.
Keep in mind that, once they go into the arms of the Red Cross in central Gaza, the Red Cross will then drive them to an Israeli military position along the border with Israel.
From there, the Israeli military takes them in vehicles and drives them to that Reim military base, which is just a few miles from the border with Gaza, along the level of central Gaza, where these hostages are being released today.
At that Reim base is where the closest members of their families are; whether that is parents or a significant other, usually one or two family members will be waiting for them there.
They will undergo an independent medical evaluation at that base and be reunited with those members of their family. And then they will all board helicopters together, those helicopters that you just said have landed at the Reim base.
[03:10:00] And then they'll be taken to hospitals here in central Israel. Today, the Sheba Medical Center, just outside of Tel Aviv, is expected to release at least two of those hostages. We have seen other hospitals in the Tel Aviv area receive them before.
And what we are expecting to see here, as this crowd is, this Hostage Square is starting to fill in with hundreds of people here, is the reaction of people as they watch the images on the screen behind me here, of those hostages emerging for the first time.
We have seen very emotional scenes here. It is always important to remember that, in Israel, everybody feels very connected to the fate of the hostages. It's not just their family members. This is such a small country and everybody here feels very connected to their to their plight.
They have been following their cases closely, knows all of the names of the hostages by their first names and are now waiting for this moment when they will finally be released and embraced by this entire country.
VAUSE: Jeremy, thank you. Jeremy in Tel Aviv, Jeremy Diamond there.
And Salma Abdelaziz in London.
Thanks to you both for our coverage as it continues here. We can see the helicopters arriving at a military base, an indication that this release is imminent. Thank you both.
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VAUSE: Jasmine El-Gamal is a former mideast adviser to the U.S. Department of Defense. She joins us now live from London.
Jasmine, thank you for being with us.
JASMINE EL-GAMAL, FORMER PENTAGON MIDDLE EAST ADVISER: Thanks so much for having me.
VAUSE: So negotiations between Israel and Hamas over phase two of the ceasefire actually began earlier this week. But there are some indications that phase two may never happen.
The Israeli media reporting a working level Israeli negotiating team led by the outgoing Shin Bet deputy director, is expected in Doha over the weekend but is in power to discuss only the first phase, not the second phase of the ceasefire.
There's also president Trump's jaw dropping plan for postwar Gaza, which includes relocation of 2 million Palestinians.
So at this point, is it going too far, perhaps, to say the agreement, the ceasefire agreement is on life support?
EL-GAMAL, FORMER PENTAGON MIDDLE EAST ADVISER: I would say.
That's a.
Fair assessment.
I mean, we always knew that the ceasefire was going to be extremely difficult to implement. It took months and months to even get the two parties to finally sign the agreement.
And it came under significant a significant uptick in pressure from the incoming Trump administration at the time. And then, in the days after he took office, his special envoy, Steve Witkoff, very quickly after Trump took office, went to the region.
He stopped in Saudi Arabia first to brief the Saudi crown prince and then he went to Israel and Gaza. And when he went to Gaza, that was the first visit by a U.S. official to Gaza in about 15 years.
So it really highlighted the stated commitment of Steve Witkoff of the Trump administration to work with the other two mediators, Qatar and Egypt, to make sure that this ceasefire really was implemented.
Now that said, there have been hiccups along the way, even in phase one, which is, relatively speaking, the simplest phase out of the three. I think Jeremy mentioned a couple of them. He was talking about the delay in names that Hamas has delayed a couple of times, releasing the names of Israeli hostages.
Hamas is also now accusing Israel of reneging on its commitment to send a certain number of aid and food and humanitarian assistance trucks. They're saying that they've sent 8,500 out of a promised 12,000 trucks and that only about 10 percent of the tents and mobile homes that were supposed to go in have gone in.
The Israelis are denying this. And so these are just some of the hiccups that we're dealing with now.
But, of course, as you mentioned, this is all happening against a backdrop of extreme uncertainty and confusion because of Trump's remarks over at that press conference, which really shocked everyone and has left everyone really scrambling to try to figure out what exactly he means.
VAUSE: And on Tuesday, while meeting with the U.S. president, Israeli prime minister Benjamin Netanyahu was asked if he actually supports the U.S. goal of returning all the hostages. Here he is.
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BENJAMIN NETANYAHU, PRIME MINISTER OF ISRAEL: I support getting all the hostages out and meeting all our war goals.
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NETANYAHU: And include destroying Hamas' military and governing capabilities and making sure that Gaza never poses a threat to Israel again.
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NETANYAHU: All three.
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VAUSE: What he's talking about here are the day after issues and what role, if any, Hamas will have in moving forward and part of phase two of the ceasefire. It seems Netanyahu is seriously hedging on that answer.
EL-GAMAL: Yes, I'm glad you brought that up because, if you listen closely to what Netanyahu was saying, what the words that you just played, he's talking about getting the hostages home. He's talking about fulfilling Israel's war goals. You'll notice -- and this is a nuanced difference.
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But you notice he's gone from saying to make sure that Hamas is never able to commit another October 7th style attack to making sure Hamas is destroyed. Now we know that Hamas as an organization, as an ideology, cannot be destroyed militarily. And so we're watching very closely to see what words exactly he's using.
And it does appear that he's trying to hedge, because what he hasn't discussed is Israel's willingness to go into -- enter into good faith negotiations over phase two.
Phase two is where Israel is going to have to make really significant concessions that go completely against what Netanyahu's right wing extremist coalition partners want, which is a withdrawal of Israeli forces from Gaza and a commitment to a permanent end of the war.
We also know that he hasn't been talking about phase two -- sorry; not phase two but the post war plan in Gaza, where he keeps saying that there is no postwar plan in Gaza, when actually, what the Arab states are saying, what the Palestinians are saying, including in my conversations with them, is that that plan is ready to go.
The Palestinian Authority is ready to go into Gaza and take control. Hamas has publicly stated that they're not interested in governing Gaza and that they're OK with not doing so.
And the Arab states have also stated their readiness to support the Palestinian Authority in conjunction with the international community as it tries to begin this new chapter after the war in governing Gaza.
And so a lot of those really important conversations, you'll notice that Netanyahu did not mention.
Which really worries a lot of people about his willingness to actually enter into those phase two negotiations and allow a post war plan in Gaza to actually unfold, despite the willingness of the Arab states and the Palestinians to engage in those discussions.
What they're saying to me is that they're not seeing that willingness reciprocated from prime minister Netanyahu.
VAUSE: Yes, we've heard a lot from Benjamin Netanyahu about what he doesn't want. We haven't heard a lot about what he actually does want for Gaza. Jasmine El-Gamal in London there, thank you so much for being with us.
EL-GAMAL: Thanks for having me.
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VAUSE: And the Trump White House has approved a $7 billion arms sale to Israel, bypassing congressional review. The sale comes just days after that meeting between the Israeli prime minister and Donald Trump.
Netanyahu was the first foreign leader to meet with Donald Trump since he was sworn in for a second term. And the president approved that deal, which includes thousands of Hellfire missiles as well as other munitions without congressional review, which means lawmakers will be prevented from raising concerns and asking questions about the sale.
At any moment. Hamas expected to begin releasing three Israeli hostages. You're watching CNN. We'll have the very latest on this breaking story in just a moment.
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VAUSE: Welcome back, everyone. We're now waiting on the situation in Deir al-Balah in Gaza, where it's 10:22 on a Saturday morning. Any moment now, Hamas expected to release three more Israeli hostages. They've been held captive since the October 7th attacks in 2023.
Israel, in return, is expected to free 183 Palestinian inmates. This is the fifth hostage and prisoner exchange during phase one of the Israel-Hamas ceasefire agreement. We'll continue to monitor the situation in Gaza. We'll bring you the very latest developments as they happen.
A federal judge has struck down an emergency request from labor unions to prevent Elon Musk's so-called Department of Government Efficiency from accessing Labor Department data. Well, the U.S. District judge said he had some concerns about how DOGE was allegedly operating.
He ruled the labor unions failed to show the level of imminent harm, which was needed for a court to intervene. Another court, though, has temporarily stopped president Donald Trump's plans to lay off thousands of workers at the U.S. Agency for International Development.
The agency was also ordered to reinstate hundreds of others who have already been placed on leave through at least until February 14th. CNN's Alex Marquardt has details.
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ALEX MARQUARDT, CNN CHIEF NATIONAL SECURITY CORRESPONDENT: A bit of good news for USAID, which has really taken a battering this week as the Trump Administration has tried to hollow out the agency as well as stripping it of its independence.
A federal judge here in Washington, D.C., who was actually named by Donald Trump, issued a temporary order blocking the Trump administration's efforts to put almost all of its staffers on leave as of late Friday night.
Now that came during a legal hearing closing out this week in which the acting leaders of USAID had said that all direct hires, as they're known, would be put on leave.
Except for essential personnel, numbering in the hundreds out of a workforce of some 10,000, which also includes thousands of contractors, many of whom have already been furloughed or laid off.
On Friday, workers took down the signage at the USAID headquarters here in Washington, D.C., and also covered up the agency's seals. The lawsuit was brought by USAID staffers against Donald Trump and his secretaries of State and Treasury.
They accused the administration of acting illegally, something that Democratic lawmakers have also alleged.
The suit said that the administration was not just throwing public servants into chaos and uncertainty but also creating a humanitarian crisis. This is a little bit of what they said in their suit.
"Deaths are inevitable. Already 300 babies that would not have had HIV now do.
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"Thousands of girls and women will die from pregnancy and childbirth. Without judicial intervention, it will only get worse."
Well, judicial intervention did come on Friday and though the USAID staff who I have spoken with were relieved at the ruling, they do recognize that this is a temporary move.
And there's still much to come as Trump tries to dramatically scale back both the agency's staff and its operations all around the world -- Alex Marquardt, CNN, Washington.
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VAUSE: No end to presidential executive orders. The latest freezes aid to South Africa because of what Donald Trump calls a racially discriminatory law. He says the South African government is unfairly seizing farmland from white Africans. The president of South Africa, though, says the law is meant to even
out racial disparities in land ownership left over from the apartheid era. South Africa's white minority still owns about three-quarters of farmland in the country, where 80 percent of the population is Black.
Ukraine's president says his country's mineral resources are on the table as part of a possible security deal with the United States. He says he's willing to trade some of Ukraine's critical minerals for security guarantees from Washington.
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VOLODYMYR ZELENSKYY, UKRAINIAN PRESIDENT (through translator): The Americans. helped the most and therefore the Americans should earn the most. And in rebuilding Ukraine, they should have this priority. And they will. I would also like to talk about this with president Trump.
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VAUSE: The U.S. president already said this week that he wants access to Ukraine's mineral riches in exchange for more military aid.
Meantime, Mr. Zelenskyy also says North Korean troops have been sent into battle in Russia's Kursk region once again. Early reports said the North Koreans were pulled back after taking heavy casualties.
But the Ukrainian president says they launched a new attack alongside Russians on Thursday and again suffered major losses.
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VAUSE: More now on our breaking news, Hamas now in the process of releasing three Israeli hostages. Live now to Deir al-Balah in Gaza, where Hamas fighters have been gathering for the last few hours. There is the stage in place. We understand that Red Cross vehicles are on the move.
Once these hostages are released, they will be taken to these Red Cross vehicles and driven to the border and then they'll be taken into Israel.
There are crowds which have been gathered there for quite some time. That crowd has grown over the last couple of hours. CNN's Jeremy Diamond standing by for us in Hostage Square in Tel Aviv for more on this.
So it does appear that this process of releasing these three new Israeli hostages from Gaza is now underway.
DIAMOND: Yes, indeed, the arrival of those Red Cross vehicles, indicating that we are very close to the moment when these three Israeli hostages will emerge after 491 days of captivity. You can see behind me, we are in Hostage Square here in Tel Aviv.
Hundreds of people have gathered here, are watching one big TV screen in this square. As we are seeing live images from inside of Gaza, those crowds of people surrounding those Red Cross vehicles.
And again, we have seen this take place in different manners in different places inside of Gaza, in the northern part of the Strip, in the south and today in central Gaza. And each time it has been a different level of kind of order, if you will.
We have seen at times Hamas has kept those crowds quite at bay, quite at a distance from their vehicles and the vehicles of the Red Cross.
Other times, such as just, you know, about 10 days ago, when we saw the release of the 29 year old female Israeli hostage, Arbel Yehud, a very chaotic scene as those militants were surrounding Yehud and a crowd was surrounding them.
Very unruly scenes that caused Israel to formally protest the manner in which that release took place and led to them delaying the release of Palestinian prisoners that day.
Today we are seeing quite a few crowds surrounding those vehicles, not quite as orderly as some of the scenes we have seen before. And so we'll have to see what the reaction from the Israeli government is to that, whether Hamas also creates more order before we actually see those hostages released.
But certainly we are seeing crowds around those vehicles in Gaza and some unease and anticipation here from people as they are watching those scenes in Gaza.
VAUSE: And just explain why this location. It's a town about, you know, before the war, about 70,000 people are maybe about, what, 14 kilometers south of Gaza City?
Why this location for the release of these, at least two of the three hostages?
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DIAMOND: Well, we have seen that in the past. Again, these releases have taken place in northern Gaza, in southern Gaza; sometimes, you know, two locations for the very same day.
And that's likely an indication of where those hostages were being held until the moment when they were released.
Basically, Hamas coordinating with the Red Cross to pick the location that allows for the quickest release of those hostages with the least number of variables that could interfere between when they are taken out from the place where they are being held captive and brought to the custody of the Red Cross.
So this is likely an indication that they were being held in central Gaza or somewhere near there or, at a minimum, that this was kind of the easiest point from which they could be released today.
We know that every time they have been released from Gaza, whether it was southern part of the Strip, northern part of the Strip, ultimately they are being driven to Israeli forces along the Gaza border and then being driven to the Reim military base in Israel, just a few miles away from the Gaza border.
That is where they have their initial reunions with their closest family members, whether that is their significant others, their parents, their siblings.
And from there, they are then taken in helicopters to hospitals here in central Israel, either in Tel Aviv or on the outskirts of the city, where they are again reunited with other family members as well and begin the process of medical and psychological evaluations.
And then we've seen them remain in those hospitals for at least a few days, as much as a week, in order to kind of begin the process of their rehabilitation. Most of the hostages who have emerged so far have been in good medical condition.
The Israeli government has raised concerns about malnutrition in some cases but, beyond that, they are relatively healthy. Some of them also need additional surgery and treatment for injuries that they sustained on October 7th.
Emily, for example, one of the first female hostages to be released, she lost fingers as a result of being shot on October 7th and didn't receive proper medical treatment at the time. And so now is being treated for kind of underlying issues stemming from that injury.
So we will see again what condition these hostages return in. Today we are now getting to the stage where it is men over the age of 52, of the men today are over the age of 50. And then you have 34 year old Or Levy.
And the fact that he is being released today indicates that he is considered either sick or wounded, being released as part of a kind of a humanitarian conditions is how it's been described here in Israel. We don't know what his actual condition is.
We don't know what injuries he may have sustained on October 7th or since then during his 491 days of captivity. But what we do know is that there is a three year old little boy who is waiting for his father, Or Levy, to return home today.
We've heard that he has been told that his father is coming home. He has not seen his father for more than half his life but he knows today that he is coming home to him.
VAUSE: Stay with us, Jeremy.
For our viewers who may be joining us at 32 minutes past the hour, it is 10:32 on a Saturday morning. And there is a split screen moment here right now, from Tel Aviv to Gaza, in Gaza and Deir al-Balah. That is where the Red Cross vehicles are now being moved into position. You can see them there on the right hand side of the screen.
A large crowd has gathered ahead of what is expected to be the release of at least two Israeli hostages who have been held for 491 days; 490 days, I should say. And on the left hand side of our screen is Tel Aviv's Hostage Square, where again, hundreds, it seems, of families and friends of those of the hostages who are still being held by Hamas.
And other Islamic militant groups in Gaza are now gathering, waiting word on this latest exchange of hostages for prisoners. CNN's Salma Abdelaziz is also with us live in London.
And clearly, one of the things that we're looking at here, with these pictures coming out of Gaza, Salma, it seems that Hamas wants to get these images out, wants to get a message across.
So exactly what do they want?
What's the value here for Hamas in broadcasting these images?
And what message are they trying to send?
ABDELAZIZ: I think you heard there from our colleague, Jeremy, just how important it is this time, for this to go off without the scenes of chaos that we saw last time. So this is an opportunity for Hamas to say we are very much in control of the situation. We are handling this release ourselves and it will happen without issue.
So if you look at those images -- and we've heard from our teams on the ground, there is a very heightened security presence. You can see the cordon; you can see the people being kept back. You can see a clear space for those Red Cross vehicles.
So again, this is an opportunity, the fifth exchange. And as again, you heard from our colleague, Jeremy, every time we see one of these exchanges, it becomes smoother and smoother. So this is an opportunity for Hamas to show that it is abiding by the ceasefire agreement and that it is carrying it out to the best of its abilities.
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And right now, that message is more important than ever, John, because these entire talks now are precarious. The entire possibility of the ceasefire entering a phase two of agreements, of talks, of negotiations, all of that now, of course, under question, because of president Trump's surprise announcement that the U.S. should, quote, "own Gaza."
So images like these are extremely important at a time when negotiators, mediators are trying to bring people back to the table so that this ceasefire enters a phase two, so many hope.
VAUSE: And Salma, as we look at these images from Gaza, we see a very orderly -- well, at least at this point -- crowd; the Red Cross vehicles are there in place. Hamas looks very much in control. This is a militant group and a political group which has taken a
battering over the last 15 months, along with Gaza as well. But yet this group or this group of militants are there with their masks and their weapons.
And if you look at the images there from Gaza, this is a very controlled scene. This is a group which seems very much in control and very much still able to function in a very much dysfunctional place right now.
ABDELAZIZ: Absolutely, John. And ultimately, these negotiations are between Israel and Hamas. It is Hamas that is on the other side of the negotiating table, even if indirectly.
However, prime minister Netanyahu was expected to send negotiators, mediators to continue and enter into that phase two of these talks earlier this week. Instead, he was, of course, in Washington, D.C., shaking hands with president Trump.
So for his part, he has made clear that he doesn't see the path forward for this conflict through Doha or the Arab capitals where these negotiations are taking place but seeing this forward from the White House.
So all of that, again, puts everything you are seeing in question for the people of Gaza. Of course, John, they are very much aware they are under fire. They have been under fire for 15 months. Their fight to return to their homes continues.
And I don't think that surprises Palestinians as much as the statement that president Trump made is shocking. But it is far from a plan, John. It is very, very far from a plan. It is only that, a shock statement, a shock announcement.
In phase two of negotiations, as you heard from my colleague, Jeremy, is ever more complex. It deals with the longer standing issues: Israeli presence in Gaza, rebuilding, reconstruction, how political -- how the political machinery of that enclave will work.
So how can one tackle these very complex issues if again, we are living in this very precarious moment with president Trump's announcement?
VAUSE: We are waiting at any moment now to see the Israeli hostages. At least two of the three Israeli hostages being released.
But Jeremy, to you standing there in Tel Aviv in Hostage Square, what is the anticipation like?
What are people saying?
What's the feeling there right now?
DIAMOND: Well, for the last few Saturdays, we have seen Israelis come to this place here in Hostage Square. And while typically this has been a place where people have come to
raise their voices, to embrace each other in moments of angst and moments of uncertainty, in moments of sadness over the fate of the hostages held in Gaza, the last few Saturdays have seen scenes of joy as people have really reacted to every twist and turn of this saga.
As those hostages are released from Gaza, the joy on people's faces and the relief, really, that washes over this crowd every time they see hostages emerge in fairly good health from 15 months of captivity has really been something to behold.
And that is indeed what we are anticipating will happen once again today. You can see behind me people are here, hundreds of people are here, watching a big screen behind us. They are holding up signs of the other hostages who are still being held in Gaza.
And it is an important reminder that, once these hostages are released today, there will still be 66 hostages held in Gaza by Hamas, 66 hostages, who people in Israel want to see come home; 66 hostages who face uncertainty.
As we do not know whether or not this six week ceasefire, which will see the release of 33 hostages, will actually result in an extension of that ceasefire, an end to the war in Gaza and the release of all of the remaining hostages.
And so people will also, I expect, be raising their voices as they have one Saturday after the next with chants of, "Now," release all of the hostages.
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"Now," get to a long term ceasefire. "Now," that word has been resonating here so many times and will, I am sure, once again today.
VAUSE: Jeremy and Salma in Tel Aviv and London, please stand by. We'll come back to you in a moment.
I want to bring in Alon Pinkas, who is a former Israeli consul general in New York. He joins us now also from Tel Aviv.
Ambassador, good to see you, sir.
ALON PINKAS, FORMER ISRAELI CONSUL GENERAL, NEW YORK: Thank you. John, good to be with you again.
VAUSE: Thank you.
Now looking at the numbers here right now, there's 33 in all the Israeli hostages set for release at the end of this six week period; 16 released so far, 17 to go. They've got a pretty good chance of being released as part of stage one of the ceasefire plan.
What about the rest when it comes to phase two?
What's their fate likely to be? PINKAS: Well, that's the big question, John, because I doubt very much there's going to be a phase two.
Now the ceasefire is supposed to go on, irrespective of phase two, meaning it will be -- it will remain a cessation of hostilities rather than a permanent ceasefire as the agreement stipulates.
But the 33 that you mentioned, of which 25 are alive -- eight are apparently not -- the 25 will probably be released by the end of phase one. Now phase one ends after 42 days. Today we are on day 21.
Mr. Netanyahu already, even though he signed the agreement -- but that never stopped him from reneging on it -- is already hinting all over the place that he has no intention of going into phase two in good faith.
Add to that what your correspondent said a moment ago, about Trump's half baked idea, and that creates a further disincentive for either side to move seriously into phase two. And so -- go ahead.
VAUSE: No, I was just going to ask you about Trump's plan and the impact it would have on Palestinians at the negotiating table.
What's the incentive to keep negotiating if, at the end of the day, the goal will be, from the U.S. president, to own Gaza?
And any ambition or any dream of having your own homeland or state is gone?
PINKAS: The only -- well, it's a very good question, because that's one of the issues that's been raised here in Israel ever since Tuesday when Trump dropped this atom bomb of an idea in the middle of the room.
The only thing I can come up with, in terms of Hamas' incentive to go on, is that it prevents the war from resuming. It prevents further devastation. It prevents further casualties.
Other than that, you know, I'm trying to think in Hamas -- from Hamas' vantage point, if you take Donald Trump's idea literally and you think, OK, so this is what he intends to do, if you do that, forget the viability or the feasibility of it.
Supposedly there's no incentive to go on, because if everyone is going to be evacuated, evicted or expelled and as will we, Hamas, then why continue this?
So, you know, that's part of the problem of what he said, because he did not calculate the consequences of what he said during that press conference on Tuesday.
VAUSE: Is there a political cost for Benjamin Netanyahu if stage two does not go into effect and those 60 or so hostages remain held in Gaza by Hamas sort of indefinitely?
PINKAS: Well, you know, I'm tempted, John, to say, yes, there's a heavy cost.
But then again, I didn't think he would survive October 7th, 2023. And yet here we are and he is still in power. Somehow he did not take responsibility. He was never held accountable. In his eyes, blamed the world, blamed the intelligence, blamed the IDF, the Israel Defense Forces, blamed Biden, blamed Qatar, blamed everyone except himself.
The chief of staff announced his resignation. The defense minister was dismissed. The head of military intelligence resigned. The head of the Southern Command resigned but only Mr. Netanyahu has nothing to do with this.
So on the face of it, I would say that emotions and sentiment in Israel are now at a point where he will not be forgiven for not progressing into the next phase, meaning releasing the other hostages and, in a way, resuming the war.
On the other hand, I don't know, because he seemed to have withheld until now.
VAUSE: Israel as a nation has endured a lot. It's gone through a lot.
Has it ever endured something equivalent to this, the drip, drip, drip release of Israeli hostages, weekend after weekend after weekend?
PINKAS: No, never. Never. I don't think any country endured something like this. Look, October 7th, 2023, was by far unequivocally the worst day in Israel's history.
[03:45:05]
It was a calamity and debacle of monumental proportions. Then came a 15- or 16-, rather, months war. Then came the agreement and this trickling, as you call it, is something that is, you know, it's tormenting and torturing the Israeli psyche.
Every week comes this, you do this and you go through the same routine in Hostage Square; the ambulances, the footage, the families who lost, who lost -- I mean, this is excruciating for any Israeli.
And by the way, the same way -- I think we've discussed this before, John -- the same way that you have a split screen between Gaza and Hostage Square, Israelis have a split screen in their minds between those who have been freed and those who still remain there, whose fate is under serious doubt.
VAUSE: Ambassador Pinkas, thank you so much for being with us, sir. Thank you for sharing your insights on this. I guess it's not so much a day of celebration. It is a sad day but a good day nonetheless. Thank you, sir. Appreciate your time.
PINKAS: Thank you, John.
Let's go back now to Tel Aviv. Jeremy Diamond is standing by there and Salma Abdelaziz also in London.
So Jeremy, just to bring us up to date with what we can expect, what we are seeing and how this is expected to play out.
DIAMOND: Yes. That's right John, we understand that the vehicles of the International Red Cross have now arrived in Deir al-Balah in central Gaza. Those images that you can see live of Red Cross vehicles there.
Hamas having cordoned off an area where there is a crowd of hundreds of Gazans who are watching this scene, as -- a scene very similar to the ones that we have seen play out over the last few weeks.
This is the first time, however, that these hostages are being released in central Gaza. We have seen releases in the northern part of the Strip before, in southern Gaza as well. But this is the first time that we are seeing one in central Gaza.
And that is likely an indication of where these hostages have been held until this moment. We are still awaiting for the vehicles. the Hamas unit vehicles, carrying those hostages to actually arrive at that square.
But the fact that the Red Cross vehicles are there, that the stage has been set, indicates that that could happen now, at any moment.
A reminder on the three hostages we expect to be released today. You have Ohad Ben Ami, who was taken from Kibbutz Be'eri. You have Or Levy, a 34 year old father of a 3 year old boy, who was taken from the Nova music festival.
And then you have Eli Sharabi, a 52 year old, who was also taken from Kibbutz Be'eri. They will all be returning to a very different reality than the one they knew on October 7th.
Eli Sharabi's wife and his two daughters were killed on October 7th by Hamas. His brother died in captivity after being held hostage for several months, likely killed by an Israeli airstrike, according to an assessment by the Israeli military.
And Or Levy, his wife was killed in front of him at that Nova music festival on October 7th. He has missed more than half of the life so far of his 3 year old boy. But today I'm told that his little boy is waiting for him at a hospital, waiting for him to return.
VAUSE: And Jeremy, do we know how many hostages are currently being held by Hamas?
How many others are being held by Islamic Jihad?
Because the one release that seemed to be fairly chaotic, where at least two Israeli hostages were forced to walk through that Palestinian mob, they were held by Islamic Jihad, if I'm not mistaken. And that was one of the reasons why it didn't seem to be quite as organized as what we're seeing today.
DIAMOND: Yes, you're right. Arbel Yehud, that 29 year old woman, who was being held hostage by Hamas, she was indeed being held hostage -- forgive me -- by Islamic Jihad. We do know that some of the hostages have been held by Islamic Jihad and that their conditions have typically been different to those of the hostages being held by Hamas.
And their releases have gone differently as well. We don't know exactly how many are still being held by Islamic Jihad versus by Hamas. What we do know is that there are 69 hostages currently being held in Gaza.
Once these three hostages will be released, that number will be down to 66. Of course, we've seen hostages being released over the course of the last few weeks and, overall, during this six week period, we expect that 33 hostages will be released, eight of whom will -- are already dead, according to Hamas.
An assessment that the Israeli government has indeed confirmed although we do not know the identities of which hostages are the eight who are deceased. We do expect that we will see living hostages be released before we see the bodies of those eight hostages released from Gaza.
[03:50:00]
And today we are now reaching this phase where it is men over the age of 50 and hostages who are considered sick and wounded. Two of those hostages being released today are indeed over the age of 50.
And then you have Or Levy, who is a 34 year old man, suggesting that he is in some way sick or wounded. We don't exactly know what his condition is or what injuries he may have sustained. But we will, of course, learn very shortly as we expect his release to be imminent.
VAUSE: And Salma, as we look at the crowd which has gathered there for the release of these hostages, at least two of the three there in central Gaza, obviously there are a lot of people with a lot of cameras, a lot of -- how is it viewed by the Palestinians in Gaza?
Is this a day of celebration?
Is it a triumphant day?
How do they see it?
ABDELAZIZ: Well, we have to remember, of course, that once these three hostages are released, the second part of this is, of course, the release of these Palestinians who are held in Israeli prisons, 183 of them.
And about 130 of those 183 will be heading to Gaza. In fact, their families, some of their families are already waiting at the Rafah border crossing.
They're waiting at the European Hospital where these prisoners are expected again to be brought to that prison, to be brought to that hospital for medical treatment and assessment before being sent with their families home.
So there is this opportunity here that everyone understands for people, Palestinians, to come back home. And about 111 of those who will be returned to Gaza, 111 of them were detained after October 7th.
So they're returning to a very different reality in the enclave. And it's not just people who are witnessing this exchange. You have to remember there is Palestinian journalists on the ground. These are journalists that have absolutely been under fire during the length of this conflict.
So they continue to cover this crisis and are, for many, the only eyes and ears on the ground during this conflict. So we'll begin to see how this plays out once these hostages are released.
And on the Israeli side, in the past, of course, in the last release, rather because of those chaotic scenes, there was a delay when it came to the release of Palestinians. That is something, of course, Hamas is trying to avoid this time.
There will be very dramatic and very poignant scenes of reunion. You have to remember that, during these past releases, there have been journalists, political analysts, mothers, minors who have been released.
Among those, of course, accused of more violent crimes. So there will be very emotional reunions to see as well. But again, this is a very delicate process. The Red Cross is deeply involved. You can see their trucks there.
It will be the Red Cross, also in the occupied West Bank, that will ferry people in buses to their locations.
And it's just a reminder again, that when you look at the complexity that had to go into these agreements, where each individual goes, how the release will happen, the timing, you have some who are going to the West Bank, some going to Gaza, some being sent to Egypt.
You begin to think of just how daunting a task it is to find a wider agreement, if a wider agreement is even on the table anymore, John.
VAUSE: And as we've been speaking, we've been watching these live images from Deir al-Balah in Gaza. And there is a lot of attention on a white sedan vehicle, which is at the end of the crowd there.
Whether or not that has the hostages in that vehicle, we do not know. But there does seem to be a lot of attention being focused on that one car.
We do know that the Red Cross vehicles are -- three of them, in all, I believe -- have already been brought into place, ready to accept the hostages, the three Israeli hostages and take them to the border, then to the Reim military airbase, where from there they'll be flown by helicopter to various hospitals around Israel.
So Jeremy, just in terms of how this plays out, just by judging by previous hostage releases, it seems that they get out of the vehicle; they're then taken on stage.
Once on stage, what happens then to these three people? DIAMOND: Well, in the past, we have seen, as the final moments of captivity for these hostages is -- often becomes a propaganda tool for Hamas as they put them up on a stage to try and show that they are happy and smiling after being held against their will for the past 15 months.
Many of them not seeing sunlight for months on end as they are held in tunnels beneath the Gaza Strip. But once that final moment ends, they are into the hands of the Red Cross. And within minutes, often into the arms of the Israeli military.
And then they can finally experience their first true moments of, of freedom. I do want to correct something that I said earlier. I said that the number of hostages is 69 still being held in Gaza. It is 79. I misspoke there but indeed 79 hostages still held by Hamas in Gaza, 76 of whom were taken on October 7th.
[03:55:04]
And if everything goes according to plan here, only 76 Israeli hostages will be remaining instead of Gaza instead of 79 once these three are released today.
VAUSE: You are forgiven. There has been a lot of coverage right now throughout the day, over the last couple of hours, Jeremy. So, no problem with the math.
What we're looking at now appears to be this pickup truck with Hamas militants on the back. There is another vehicle behind it, which looks like a minivan. And then another pickup truck with Hamas militants there as well.
The assumption is now that quite possibly the Israeli hostages, two of the three at least, are in that minivan. Sandwiched in between these two pickup trucks with Hamas militants who are masked and heavily armed as well.
So what we're watching to see is what comes out of that minivan right now, whether or not it is, in fact, the three, two of the three Israeli men who are slated for release.
According to Hamas, their names were given to the Israeli government on Friday. We are now waiting to see if they do, in fact, get out of that vehicle. And that process will then get underway for these three men to be reunited with their families after being held there in Gaza for 491 days.
And again, this is a slow process. It is an excruciatingly slow process for families back home in Israel waiting for this to happen. But it will happen eventually.
And when it does, Salma, that is a process that will get underway. But that then triggers the release of Palestinian prisoners. But in the meantime, we have a situation where Palestinians are left wondering what their future will be. Despite the ongoing ceasefire and despite these ongoing negotiations
for phase two, the U.S. president has left many in doubt as to whether or not they will, in fact, have a homeland in Gaza; whether there is, in fact, anything worth negotiating over.
ABDELAZIZ: Well, I think, again, we just have to emphasize that what president Trump said is simply that, something he said. At this time he has no concrete plan. He has, President Trump has said that he will push other Arab nations, other countries in the region, such as Egypt and Jordan, to take in Gazans.
That is something that both Egypt and Jordan have absolutely rejected. Trump has responded by saying I, you know, they will do it, essentially indicating that he's willing to use strongman tactics. He did not rule out the use of military force.
Of course, this is an entirely new phase, an entirely new era for Palestinians. But -- and I have to emphasize this -- I don't think any of the 2 million people inside Gaza are not very well aware that they are under fire and fighting for their homeland. They have been doing so for 15 months.
I don't think they're surprised that they will have to continue doing so. You have seen those very dramatic images of Palestinians returning, Gazans returning to the north, to areas like the one we're seeing right here on our split screen and just how much that meant to be able to return home after 15 months of war.
So for Gazans, this fight for survival continues. That is nothing shocking to them. No one in the Trump administration seems to have asked their opinion.
But their opinion is clear, which is, we will remain home. But, of course, regardless, when president Trump steps out and makes this shocking announcement, it throws everything into question.
It has already put phase two of these negotiations under a huge question mark. Negotiators, diplomats were supposed to be meeting just days ago. There's indications that possibly some meetings could take place next weekend.
But what authority will they have?
Will prime minister Netanyahu actually engage in any way when he's made it clear that he sees the path forward is through Washington, D.C., and president Trump, not through the mediating tables in the Arab capitals, like Doha.
VAUSE: Coming up to just on a minute to the top of the hour, what we're seeing right now play out in Gaza, there appears to be a Hamas spokesperson, who is addressing the crowd, seems to be rallying the crowd in many ways. He's been speaking for some time.
This is an indication that we are getting closer to the moment when those three Israeli hostages, who have been held for 491 days, will soon be released. So they'll be taken on to that stage. We believe that they are in the
minivan there, which is sandwiched between the two pickup trucks with Hamas fighters in the back. Once they are taken from that minivan, they will be presented on stage. There will be some kind of ceremony, we presume.
And from there they'll be taken to -- by the International Red Cross in three different vehicles to the border and from there to the Reim military base and flown on to hospitals across Israel.
Just what their condition is right now, we do not know. How long their recovery will be is also unknown at this point. Other hostages who have been released after such a long time in captivity have taken weeks to recover.
There's also the psychological and traumatic stress that they have endured throughout these -- look, for more than a year, where they've been held often with no satellite. Also no fresh air, that kind of thing.
Many have been -- many have died also whilst they've been held by Hamas. And, of course, we're now moving closer to this moment of freedom for three Israeli hostages.
