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Trump Slams Judicial Branch as Judges Challenge His Upending of Government; Inside the GOP's Careful Pushback to Musk's DOGE Effort; Next Hour, Trump Hosting Jordan's King Abdullah at White House. Aired 10-10:30a ET

Aired February 11, 2025 - 10:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

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PAMELA BROWN, CNN ANCHOR: Testing the rule of law, both President Trump and Vice President J.D. Vance are now openly questioning the authority of federal judges as ruling after ruling pauses parts of their agenda.

Plus, threats over Gaza, the president is now telling Egypt and Jordan, accept Palestinians from Gaza, or you could lose billions of dollars in aid. Next hour, the king of Jordan will meet with President Trump at the White House, and we are following the latest on Trump's shocking plan for the region.

And later, a billion dollar tech feud, OpenAI CEO Sam Altman now responding to Elon Musk's offer to buy ChatGPT, and the attacks are getting personal.

Well, good morning to you. You are live in the CNN Newsroom. I'm Pamela Brown in a very busy Washington.

And we begin with President Trump's open condemnation of America's judicial branch, of course, the third co-equal branch of government, as federal judges once again freeze some of his actions after several legal challenges to the White House's agenda, both President Trump and Vice President J.D. Vance have loudly been questioning the authority of the judicial branch and slamming its oversight as overreach.

We're joined now by CNN's Katelyn Polantz and Alayna Treen. Katelyn, I want to go to you first. Is the Trump administration not following some of these court orders from federal judges? That's sort of a key question.

KATELYN POLANTZ, CNN SENIOR CRIME AND JUSTICE CORRESPONDENT: Yes. Well, they've been accused twice as of yesterday of not following what the judges are telling them to do, specifically in two cases where there was money or people working for the federal government supposed to not have been curtailed.

So, Trump had tried to, in one general idea, spurring a lot of different lawsuits cut back I'm going to talk a little bit about the federal funding that is going out. And there was a judge yesterday that said, Hey, I told you before that you have to keep funding things, like environmental research projects and programs, healthcare programs. Do that. Give them their money. You're saying that money isn't happening right now. So that's one thing that happened.

There are these complaints that are ongoing. But the way these cases are playing out, there are so many of them, Pam. I tried to count. We're up to maybe almost four dozen since the beginning of the administration. Judges are coming in quite quickly and they're saying, put everything on hold and let's preserve the status quo so that the administration's policy changes, cutting the federal workforce, cutting back the funding, doing some other things that they're doing with social policy, immigration, the judges are saying, we don't want there to be irreparable harm here. And so we're going to step in and temporarily pause everything so that the courts can then look at things further in the coming days and weeks and months and potentially have these challenges go to the Supreme Court.

BROWN: And some of them are Trump appointed judges, right?

POLANTZ: Some of them are Trump appointed judges. There was a judge that said, Hey, you can't get rid or put on administrative leave all of the USAID workforce immediately, reinstate those people. This is one of the complaints that happened yesterday where people in the case said, we don't think that the administration is following the court's orders. That judge was a Trump-appointed judge in the D.C. District Court. And the Justice Department yesterday said to that judge, we think the president can do what he wants. He has the power over the executive branch, including USAID workers and his powers, especially in the realm of foreign affairs, are vast and generally unreviewable by the courts.

So, that's what we're going to keep hearing from the Justice Department as they fight the case these cases.

BROWN: And, of course, USAID was created by Congress through a law, right, as a separate entity. And that is part of the heart of what is being challenged here in courts.

Alayna, what is the White House saying about this? How is it reacting to the latest legal challenges?

ALAYNA TREENE, CNN WHITE HOUSE REPORTER: Well, Pamela, since Donald Trump has taken office and been sworn in, you know, he signed dozens of executive orders and actions. He has plans later this afternoon to sign even more. And, really, the only obstacle he's faced so far has been with these legal battles and with the courts trying to prevent and block some of what he is trying to do.

[10:05:03]

Now, some of those different battles that Katelyn walked through, they were expecting, like the birthright citizenship order, they knew that was likely going to get caught up in the courts. It's actually something, when I talked to White House officials, they argued that they wanted to get caught up in the courts, go through the process, maybe be challenged by the Supreme Court. But others, like some of the halting of funding to USAID and the gutting of the Consumer Financial Protection Bureau, those are ones where it is getting underneath the Trump administration's skin.

Now, really, where we saw a lot of this kind of progress over the last few days and really most notably is how the president's allies and top officials are responding. We saw Vice President J.D. Vance over the weekend say that the judicial branch and judges, quote, aren't allowed to control the executive's legitimate power. I think legitimate, doing a lot of work there. But then we also saw the president this morning weigh in on this directly. He was alleging without evidence that DOGE has been finding billions in waste, fraud, and abuse. And then he went on to say that certain activists and highly political judges want us to slow down or stop. He argued that would be a disaster.

So, we're seeing a lot of criticism toward these judges. I think, really, the question now is how they're going to continue to respond to some of these different legal battles. Will they appeal or will they try to defy this moving forward?

BROWN: Alayna Treene, Katelyn Polantz, thank you so much.

So, let's discuss that and more with Democratic Congressman Jerry Moskowitz of Florida. He is a member of the House Judiciary Committee. Congressman, thank you for being here with us.

First, your reaction to the accusations that the administration is not honoring some of these court orders.

REP. JARED MOSKOWITZ (D-FL): Well, good morning. Thanks for having me. Well, look, we, you know, we got to let that play out in the court system. Obviously, the administration can go ahead and appeal, but we know how we got here, right? We already have Elon Musk and DOGE in the administration, you know, dealing with funding that is reserved for Congress under Article 1.

So, we're already kind of dealing with this, but we got to let the process work itself out. We can't just claim constitutional crisis all the time. We can't always be at a ten. So, we got to let it work itself out. And, eventually, if the administration then doesn't listen to the Supreme Court, that then obviously would be a time where we could be outraged. But there's a lot of game that has to be played as this works through the court so far.

BROWN: So, basically, what I hear you saying is that we need to let it work its way through the court. And if they defy a court order, you know, then let's not freak out. But if it gets to the Supreme Court and they defy that, that's when you can say there's a constitutional crisis. Basically, is that what you're saying?

MOSKOWITZ: Yes, that's exactly right, because obviously this is going to go to an appeals court, right? And then after it goes to the appeals court, then obviously depending upon the ruling, both sides can appeal to the Supreme Court. Look, even Judge Kavanaugh said that the executive branch does not have the power to subvert things that Congress funds. By the way, this is my entire argument. Remember, I'm a Democrat who joined the DOGE Caucus here in Congress. I do believe government is inefficient. I do believe we can save money. But that can only happen in Congress. In fact, go look at the debt clock. Even if Elon Musk is right, which I'm not sure he is, but let's just say for the sake of argument, he is. He's found hundreds of billions of dollars in waste and fraud. Fine, cut it, get rid of it, but Congress has to do that. The only way we can get the debt to go down is for Congress to do it, okay?

The debt clock right now keeps going up and up, even while Elon's doing his thing, and say, okay, well, it's only been a couple of weeks, Jared, give him some time. Well, come back to me in a month, and you'll see that the debt clock is not going to be affected unless Congress does those actions in Congress.

So, here's what maybe the Speaker should do. Take all the things that DOGE says they found, bring it to the floor for an up or down vote.

BROWN: Let's talk a little bit more about DOGE. First of all, are you going to stay on the DOGE committee? I know some of your colleagues have decided not to, given how they are seeing this play out, how Elon Musk and his staffers are going into different agencies and accessing these systems and so forth. Are you going to stay there?

MOSKOWITZ: Well, there's three different, you know, buckets. There's a DOGE subcommittee in oversight, which I am not on. Then there is the DOJ committee that Elon is leading in the executive. And then there's the DOGE caucus, which is what I'm a member of in Congress. And I joined that because we were told that this is where the discussion is going to happen.

That being said, there's been no discussion. Elon's been doing it all himself. We've had meetings. It's been bipartisan. We've had good discussions. But it doesn't seem like the caucus is included on, you know, what DOGE is finding. We were told Elon's going to audit it and make recommendations to Congress.

So, look, I'm going to stay for now. But at some point in time, the caucus may just be irrelevant because Congress is not being included, even though it's our constitutional duty to either fund or cut these programs.

BROWN: So, what are your specific concerns in terms of how Musk and DOGE are operating and allowing -- you know, having access to some sensitive information about Americans?

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MOSKOWITZ: Well, obviously, the courts have already ruled on the Treasury issue, and that right now we have no evidence that they're defying that order. It seems that there's limits on what access they can have in Treasury.

So, look, what's happening over there is happening fast and furious. That's by design, right, and, you know, keep releasing information, flood the zone with all of these things. We don't know if everything they're finding is true or not true. But, you know, at the moment we can only take them at their word. But why don't they just present it to Congress? Why don't you be transparent? Bring all those things to Congress and let Congress decide on an up or down vote.

We could do it program by program by program. Let's find out where every member stands on all these things that DOGE says that they found. We could just take an up or down vote. Then we would be doing it legally because we would be following the Constitution. And then we would be, obviously, helping bring down the debt in the event that they found all of these fraud, waste, and abuse.

BROWN: So, again, you're for, you know, cutting down on fraud, waste and abuse. I think most Americans would be, but are you -- you're a member of the DOGE caucus, as you clarified. Are you getting any information about what they're doing, what systems they're targeting, the conflict of interest concerns here with Elon Musk and eliminating some of these agencies, such as the Consumer Protection Bureau, Financial Protection Bureau? I mean, are you getting any information as a member of Congress?

MOSKOWITZ: No, we're finding out like you, via tweets.

BROWN: From reporters and --

MOSKOWITZ: Yes, exactly right. And so, no, there's no -- it doesn't appear to be any communication between what Elon is doing and the caucus. It seems that Congress is behind and being left out, considering this is our function.

Again, we were told that they were going to audit these departments and bring the recommendations to Congress, but that's not what's happening. What they're doing is they're cutting and stopping, which is things that the executive branch can't do. That's for Congress to do. Or, you know what? If that's what the executive branch is doing, they just need to admit to the American people, it's not affecting the debt. Don't believe me. Go look at the debt clock. If they're finding all of this waste and all this abuse, why is the debt clock continuing to rise?

So, again, right, if we want to take this on, the only body that can take it on is the House and the Senate, not the executive branch.

BROWN: All right. I want to turn to the hostage agreement between Israel and Hamas. Hamas is saying it's delaying the next release of hostages, claiming Israel has violated the ceasefire agreement. President Trump just told reporters yesterday if the hostages aren't released by Saturday, Israel should cancel the deal and let all hell break out. What is your response to that?

MOSKOWITZ: Well, obviously, I don't believe anything Hamas says. I don't know why we'd say Hamas says that Israel's the one who violated the deal. Hamas is the one who violated the deal. Hamas is the one who came out and said, we're not releasing the hostages as we promised to do. So, Hamas is the one that has violated the deal. I'm not surprised. We're dealing with a terrorist organization. I don't know why we ever thought we could trust them, but we did everything we can to get our hostages out.

You know, look, as far as the president's comments are concerned, I mean, hell has already been unleashed in this area. These families that don't have their loved ones back, 1,200 people being killed in Israel, and innocent Palestinians being killed because Hamas has used them as human shields, has sacrificed them to the war, because Hamas doesn't want a two-state solution. Hamas doesn't want to live side by side in Israel.

So, look, the president obviously uses tough language. That's not something we haven't seen before. He did it in the first administration. But we're dealing with a terrorist organization. I mean, what do you want him to say? Please, Hamas, please give us our hostages? I mean, that's how the president deals with these things. And you know what? We should be tougher with Hamas and we should be tougher with Iran. Let's start putting more pressure on Iran. Hamas is just their proxy.

BROWN: Really quickly, just to follow up on the two state solution part, you said Hamas doesn't want that. It looks as though President Trump is trying to abandon that by his proposal for the U.S. to take over Gaza and permanently remove the Palestinians from their land. They say they don't want to do that. What do you say to that?

MOSKOWITZ: Well, look, that's not going to happen. But I do think a two-state solution at this moment is dead. There is no path at this moment for a two-state solution. But I do think what the president is doing is he's saying to the Arab leaders, he's saying the Egypt and Jordan, which all keep saying we got to have a two-state solution, a two-state solution.

Well, what do they suggest? Remember Yasser Arafat was offered twice a two-state solution more than they will ever be offered now and they turned it down. And so what deal is there that they're willing to accept? We know the deal that Hamas wants. They want no Israel, right? And so, I do think, unfortunately, and I've always been a supporter of a two-state solution, I think we have to be honest, that this moment, a two-state solution is dead in the region.

BROWN: All right. I want to get one more question into you, and that is about funding the government. Obviously, you talked about the debt and so forth. That's a big sticking point. Congress is trying to figure out how it's going to fund the government moving forward.

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One of your fellow Democrats, Congresswoman Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez, says Democratic votes quote should not come cheap. Let's listen.

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REP. ALEXANDRIA OCASIO-CORTEZ (D-NY): We should be very clear with the American people that the House is governed by a Republican majority, the Senate is governed by a Republican majority, and the White House has a Republican president. And if they want to pass their agenda, Republicans need to conjure up the votes for them to pass their own bills.

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BROWN: Do you agree with your Democratic colleagues? And what do you say to some of the Democrats who are saying they might vote no to fund the government as sort of a leverage point?

MOSKOWITZ: Well, let me say this. I mean, remember, we've heard for weeks that there's this big, beautiful mandate. And so, look, they have the House. They have the Senate. They have the executive. Republicans are in charge, right? So, you know, they got to be able to keep the government open.

I do not think Democrats should be using closing the government as a leverage point. But, you know, I would say this, right now if the government's going to close, I think that's on Speaker Johnson, and I'll tell you why. Speaker Johnson talked about individual spending bills. Well, we have a month to go. Where are the 12 individual spending bills? We can't fund the government by C.R. anymore. The American people said that they don't want the status quo.

If we listen to what DOGE is saying, and whether we disagree or we think what they're doing is legal, what they say is they have found hundreds of billions of dollars of fraud. The president just said that in a tweet. Well, if that's the case, then we can't fund it by C.R. because a C.R. would refund all of the hundreds of billions of dollars of fraud.

And so since we can't do a C.R. because we can't fund the status quo, we can't fund the fraud and the abuse that they found, then we're going to have to do individual spending bills. Well, the speaker's running out of time. He's got to get those individual spending bills out. Otherwise, he's going to close the government.

BROWN: Interesting point. Congressman Jared Moskowitz, thank you very much.

MOSKOWITZ: Thank you.

BROWN: And coming up, towing the line between loyalty and pushback. Up next, the growing concern from some GOP lawmakers when it comes to DOGE.

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BROWN: Happening right now, House Republican leaders are speaking on Capitol Hill following their meeting. And this is happening as some congressional leaders are growing concerned over President Trump and Elon Musk's attempts to slash the federal workforce. They're questioning the attempt to bypass congressional control over budgets and others are facing a deluge of calls from their constituents.

CNN Congressional Correspondent Lauren Fox joins us now from Capitol Hill. So, let's get to that in a moment. But, first, you've got some news on intraparty fighting within the GOP. Tell us about that, Lauren.

LAUREN FOX, CNN CONGRESSIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Yes. I mean, there's really been a disconnect between House Republicans and Senate Republicans on the best way to advance Donald Trump's agenda right here on Capitol Hill. And House Republicans specifically have been grappling with how to come together with such a narrow majority to pass a budget resolution, which would be the first step to passing a larger tax and border package for House Republicans.

Now, we are hearing this morning that they are trying to aim to mark up a budget bill on Thursday. That means they have to come to an agreement before that date, something that has remained elusive up until this point. But we heard from multiple Republican leaders coming out of this meeting that that is the goal in this current moment. Of course, that goalpost has moved several times before. So, it's going to be really interesting to see whether or not they can find some kind of consensus whilst conservatives have been pushing for steeper cuts when it comes to programs like Medicaid. Pam?

BROWN: And, publicly, House members are in lockstep over the cuts Trump and Musk are making to the federal workforce, but it may not be the same in private, right?

FOX: Yes, this new reporting comes from our colleague Annie Grayer. And, essentially, it looks like Republicans, while publicly want to be supportive of Donald Trump and Elon Musk, they are hearing from constituents. Because it's so important to remember that a lot of these Republicans, especially some of these swing district Republicans, have a lot of federal workers in their districts. And they are hearing from constituents who are concerned about some of this overreach or perceived overreach from their constituents back home.

Now, there's also just a sensitivity when it comes to Republicans in Congress to protect the power of the purse. Congress appropriates money. They decide what programs get funded. So, you can imagine that there is some trepidation when they come in and see someone like Elon Musk coming in and making these unilateral decisions about what programs need to be slashed. You have someone like Representative Don Bacon, who hails from Nebraska, who said, you know, I'm all for looking at making government more efficient, but what I'm not for is just slashing and burning government without going line by line to make decisions about what potentially could be saved and what potentially should be cut.

So, that's where you start to see this friction. They don't want to go there publicly, but, privately, they're fielding a lot of calls from people who are worried back home.

BROWN: And we'll see if they go there publicly as time goes on, if this dynamic continues.

Lauren Fox on Capitol Hill, thank you.

Well, coming up in less than an hour, President Trump will host the king of Jordan at the White House. The president already setting the tone with his comments on the ceasefire and Gaza redevelopment. I'll discuss the impact of his messaging up next.

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BROWN: Next hour at the White House, President Trump is set to meet with the king of Jordan under the shadow of a new threat. President Trump says that he could withhold aid to Jordan and Egypt if they don't accept the 2 million Palestinians who would be displaced by his plans to develop Gaza. Now, both Jordan and Egypt have soundly rejected the idea of taking them all in.

Joining us now is Maya Berry, the executive director of the Arab- American Institute. That is a nonprofit membership organization that advocates for the interests of Arab-Americans. And also joining us is Bishara Bahbah, chairman of a group known as Arab-Americans for Peace.

I want to begin there. The name of your group was Arab-Americans for Trump.

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You changed it after President Trump announced plans to take over Gaza and relocate Palestinians. Why did you change it? Do you no longer support the president?