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Trump Threatens Withholding Funding to Jordan and Egypt; Hamas Threatens to Delay Release of Hostages; Trump's Former Attorneys Leads DOJ "Weaponization" Review; OpenAI CEO Weighs in on Musk's Offer to But the Company; Flu Season in U.S. Most Intense in 15 Years. Aired 10:30-11a ET

Aired February 11, 2025 - 10:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[10:30:00]

PAMELA BROWN, CNN ANCHOR: -- changed it after President Trump announced plans to take over Gaza and relocate Palestinians. Why did you change it? Do you no longer support the president?

BISHARA BAHBAH: FORMER MEMBER OF PALESTINIAN DELEGATION ON MULTILATERAL PEACE TALKS AND CHAIRMAN, ARAB AMERICANS FOR PEACE: No, no, no. We changed that -- we -- after the victory of the president in November, there was no need to continue with the name Arab Americans for Trump. And we were thinking of changing the name.

However, when, he made the announcement regarding the relocations of Gazans, we wanted to come out with a press release, but we could not do it under Arab Americans for Trump, because that would be counterproductive or contradictory to what we intended in our press release. So, we changed it to Arab Americans for Peace. All along, we wanted peace in the Middle East. That is why we supported the president and abandoned Harris and President Biden.

BROWN: Do you stand by that decision given, as you put out, that the contradictory position of having a name like that with your view of the plans he has for Gaza?

BAHBAH: Yes, I do stand by my position. Just keep in mind that the president was able to force Netanyahu to accept the ceasefire in Gaza, something that the Biden-Harris administration could not do in over a 10-month period. So, we are grateful that there is a ceasefire in Gaza, and we look forward to the president's second promise of achieving a lasting peace in the Middle East that is satisfactory to all parties.

BROWN: Of course, Trump has been given some credit for that, but it did happen before he officially took office, we should note.

Maya, to get to you, do you believe that this is a serious Trump proposal on Gaza or a negotiating tactic, and does it even matter?

MAYA BERRY, EXECUTIVE DIRECTOR, ARAB AMERICAN INSTITUTE: I don't believe it's serious. I'm not sure how it's a negotiating matter tactic that would potentially work. What I do think is it's incredibly dangerous, both to the ongoing suffering of the Palestinians in terms of what they've endured, a genocidal policy in Gaza and dangerous to the United States.

I see no way in which us becoming -- you know, Pam, one of the things that's interesting is it went from a discussion about soldiers, U.S. soldiers on the ground occupying Gaza and we're going to buy it, not quite sure who we buy it from, to now we've shifted away from that and we're talking about the Israelis will do this and the Israeli do -- in the process, we've normalized conversation of forced transfer of a population, which is a war crime.

So, we've gone from a democratic administration that enabled the genocide to one that's now talking about the forced displacement of Palestinians, roughly 2.3 million people. That's not viable, on the world stage or in terms of U.S. policy.

BROWN: And just to note on genocide, I know it's a sensitive subject, but the International Community has not come to a consensus on that, although there are allegations and it is being looked at through the international court. But you know, just on the broader view, how damaging is this proposal to U.S. standing in the Arab world?

BERRY: I think it's exceptionally disturbing in terms of the Arab world and in terms of our allies there when the Trump administration has purported the normalization with Saudi Arabia as a key objective in terms of our European allies.

The idea that the United States would float policies like this openly is now also producing in Israel conversations regarding the transfer of Palestinians in a very normalized way. I don't think that enables U.S. policymakers to achieve anything that would resemble what should be our policies.

BROWN: I want to shift gears to President Trump urging Israel to cancel the ceasefire deal with Hamas and let all hell break out if the hostages are not released by noon on Saturday. Bishara, you were just praising Donald Trump for the role he had in that initial phase. What do you think about that statement? Did this just turn up the heat in the region or are you in favor of this? What is your viewpoint?

BAHBAH: No, I'm not in favor of it. And it does turn up the heat in the region. I mean, there is no way under the sun that all hostages are going to be freed by Saturday at noon. I mean, the hostage process entails steps by Israel and steps by Hamas. Israel has not fulfilled its promises. For example, it promised to bring in 60,000 housing units into Gaza. And so, far, zero of those 60,000 have come in.

So, people are living under tents or makeshift tents. And so, the president's comment in that regard is not helpful, and it's not realistic at the same time. There is no way you could -- all the hostages would be released. Besides, the Palestinians in Gaza have endured, you know, whether you call it a genocide or not, from my perspective, a genocide that killed 46,000 people, injured 120,000, and a threat by U.S. president is not going to make a dent in that.

[10:35:00]

BROWN: Yes. And of course, that's your personal view. Again, no international consensus on that. Just to follow up with you, though, to both of you quickly, you know, President Trump has argued, look, when it comes to Gaza, it is a destruction zone. You can't live there. It's unlivable given the war that's happened there. And it's -- you know, it's -- as his press secretary said in her own words, evil to keep people there, trying to live there. What do you say to that?

BERRY: That's why it's credible to discuss it as a genocide. We literally saw the 90,000 tons of explosives dropped on an area. A population forced to move from one area to another. They're not going anywhere. Palestinians are not going to leave Gaza. But that is -- how did we get here?

BROWN: Explain that though. Help us -- our viewers understand -- and, Bishara, for you on that, you know, they're not going to leave their land despite what President Trump has said --

BERRY: Despite what anyone says.

BROWN: -- tell us why it -- that is so important to them to not do that.

BAHBAH: Well, you know, we are so ingrained in the -- in Palestine. I'm Palestinian-American. I was born and raised in Jerusalem. My father in 1967, when people -- when Israel was attacking the West Bank, would refuse to leave Jerusalem at the time, because he said, we became refugees once in 1948. We will never become refugees again. And if we're going to die, let's die on our land. And that is the view of a majority, a vast majority, if not all of Palestinians right now living under Israeli occupation.

BROWN: Maya Berry, Bishara Bahbah, thank you for sharing your perspectives, this ongoing conversation. We appreciate it.

BAHBAH: Thank you. And coming up, the fight over the future of A.I. is getting personal as the CEO of OpenAI weighs in on Elon Musk's nearly $100 billion offer to buy the company

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[10:40:00]

BROWN: We are getting new details on the Trump administration's push to reimagine the Justice Department in his image, including a new effort to scrutinize those who investigated the January 6th Capitol riot. And it's being led by some of the same people who defended the president as his personal attorneys.

Joining us now for more on this is CNN Senior Justice Correspondent Evan Perez. So, Evan, what do we know about the people leading this review?

EVAN PEREZ, CNN SENIOR JUSTICE CORRESPONDENT: Well, one of the key people is Emil Bove. He is a former attorney or lawyer in prosecutor in the Southern District for -- Southern District of New York, and he's the one who has been sending these memos to the FBI, trying to get these 5,000 names of agents and analysts who worked on the Trump cases. And, you know, talking to some of his former colleagues, you know, they're a bit surprised of his role in here in this because they remember after January 6, 2021, he was one of the people who was pushing agents and prosecutors to do some of these cases. He was there helping to design the legal process for the FBI to do search warrants and so on.

So, the idea that he is now helping to lead a review that will essentially look at work that he was involved in is -- does raise the question of at least an appearance of conflict. And you know, it goes beyond Emil Bove, of course, Pamela Brown -- Pamela Bondi --

BROWN: Don't worry, you're not the first who's done that.

PEREZ: I've done this several times. Pamela Bondi --

BROWN: But it's good, some sources will answer their phone because it's (INAUDIBLE) calling, so, you know.

PEREZ: Pamela Bondi is, of course, the attorney general. You got Todd Blanche who was one of his personal attorneys and is now about to be the deputy attorney general. John Sauer, also involved here. He was helping on the Supreme Court cases.

And, you know, the question of whether these people should recuse themselves, it comes up, but of course, you and I both remember that in Donald Trump's world recusal is a dirty word. You remember, of course --

BROWN: Oh, of course.

PEREZ: -- you know -- yes. You remember Jeff Sessions.

BROWN: Jeff Sessions. We -- how could we --

PEREZ: Never recovered from that. So, that is part of what is now part of this discussion.

BROWN: It's interesting too, because Bobi (ph) was the one that sent that initial e-mail over to the FBI or memo saying terminations.

PEREZ: Right, exactly.

BROWN: For these agents that -- and he was involved with the early stages. I think that context is so important. I really want to ask you quickly about the JFK files, assassination files.

PEREZ: Yes.

BROWN: And there's some new tidbits coming out about that.

PEREZ: The FBI says they found 2,400 documents that could be a part of this review now that they're doing. And we'll see whether, under the president's order, that these get released. Keep in mind, there've been a number of these reviews, and every time they look at them, there are still some documents that cannot be released because of intelligence reasons. And so, obviously, the fact that there might be still some documents that won't get released will forever fuel the conspiracies about who shot JFK. You know, it'll live on, I'm sure.

BROWN: It shall. All right.

PEREZ: But the fact that there's 2,400 new documents that they didn't know about is really significant.

BROWN: That seems to be a very big deal. All right. Evan Perez, thank you so much.

PEREZ: Thanks.

BROWN: Well, things are getting personal. Elon Musk wants to buy OpenAI, but its CEO Sam Altman is having none of it. Musk and a group of investors are offering more than $97 billion for the parent company of ChatGPT, which is a competitor of his A.I. company.

CNN's Matt Egan joins us now. So, Matt, Musk and OpenAI CEO, Sam Altman, have a history of feuding. Now, there's like a back and forth on Musk's own platform X. Where does this deal stand as of now?

MATT EGAN, CNN REPORTER: Well, Pamela, this really is a shocking development in this long running feud between two of the most powerful people in tech. Elon Musk, who has his own A.I. startup, sent shockwaves across the business world by launching this hostile takeover offer for OpenAI. Remember, that's the company behind ChatGPT, the app that really made A.I. go mainstream and set off this boom. Elon Musk and a group of investors were offering $97.4 billion dollars to buy OpenAI.

[10:45:00]

What's important to note is there's a backstory here. They've been feuding for a long time, Musk and Sam Altman. Musk was actually a co- founder of OpenAI in -- back in 2015, but they've been clashing ever since. Now, all men responded by throwing shade at Elon Musk on his own social media platform by saying no thank you, but we will buy Twitter for $9.74 billion if you want.

Altman was asked about all of this during an interview this morning, and he responded in deeply personal ways. Take a listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SAM ALTMAN, CEO AND CO-FOUNDER, OPENAI: Look, OpenAI is not for sale. The OpenAI mission is not for sale. Elon tries all sorts of things for a long time. This is the late -- you know, this week's episode.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Do you think Musk's approach then is from a position of insecurity about X A.I.?

ALTMAN: Probably his whole life. His -- from a position of insecurity, I feel for the guy.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You feel for him?

ALTMAN: I do, actually. I don't think he's like a happy person. I do feel for him.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

EGAN: So, clearly no love lost between Elon Musk and Sam Altman. Look, this is not just another battle between billionaires. There's so much at stake here in the A.I. arms race. So, we've got to watch this space very carefully. Pamela.

BROWN: We will. Matt Egan, thank you so much. And coming up, it's the most intense flu season in at least 15 years. Dr. Sanjay Gupta is next on a new at home tool that could help. We'll be right back.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[10:50:00]

BROWN: Here in the U.S., the flu has surged to a second peak. But there are some over the counter tests that could help you. Dr. Sanjay Gupta joins us now from Atlanta.

DR. SANJAY GUPTA, CNN CHIEF MEDICAL CORRESPONDENT: Good morning.

BROWN: So, here in the U.S., Sanjay, good morning, this is a flu season that is one of the most intense. It's been a while, right? What are we seeing? What's going on?

DR. GUPTA: Yes, I think if you look at hospitalizations this is the worst that it's been since before the pandemic 2017 timeframe. If you look at people going to the doctor just for clinic visits even, it's the worst that it's been really since H1N1. That was back in 2009, the H1N1 pandemic. So, yes, this is a pretty significant flu season.

Let me show you the map here. This is sort of a snapshot of sort of what is happening around the country. The darker the colors, the more flu you have. So, you can find your own state there. And look, if you are -- if you have symptoms and you think, is this the flu or not and you live in one of the darker states here on this map chances are going to be higher that it is the flu.

If you look at the numbers overall, and you look at the number of people who are coming in, have been diagnosed with flu, the number of people who've been hospitalized and even deaths, these are some high numbers. Pamela, I always pay attention to hospitalizations in particular because I think it's the truest measure of what's happening. 310,000 hospitalizations so far this season, 38,000 in just the last week alone. And I think that's what's gotten a lot of people's attention.

There are the -- you know, people go get tested and there's a thing known as positivity rate, Pamela, I don't know if you remember that term.

BROWN: Oh, I do. DR. GUPTA: How likely is the test to come back positive, when it gets over 10 or 12, 15 percent. Then, you know, there's a lot of -- you know, the virus is out there. We're over 30 percent right now, which means that we're really in the middle of flu season and it's probably going to be around for some time to come. Pamela.

BROWN: That is not good news. I just have to ask you out of curiosity. The flu vaccine, is it -- are fewer people getting it, kids? Is it not as effective? How does the flu vaccine factor in all of this?

DR. GUPTA: Yes. So, that is still very much recommended, especially for people who are higher risk. Less than half the country, whether you're a child or an adult gets the flu vaccine. Those numbers have gone down a little bit, although even before the pandemic, fewer than half the adults in the country got the vaccine. So, it's gone down a little bit. It takes about two weeks after you get the vaccine for you to actually have the antibodies to be more protective against the flu.

There are other things now this year, you sort of mentioned this, but there is an at home flu test now. We used to have COVID test you could do at home, now flu test as well. Some of this will look familiar to you. A nasal swab, Pamela. And then, you have the little reagent. And then, basically just like something that may look familiar to you, you can find out at home whether or not you have the flu. So, that's good information for people to have.

Why get tested at home? Well, again, you know that you might have the flu and that you should stay away from others, especially people who may be more vulnerable, but also, within the first couple of days, if you have flu, using certain antivirals like Tamiflu can be more helpful. People over the age of 65, pregnant women, people who have some underlying disease, they may want to consider taking Tamiflu. It is most effective in the first couple of days.

[10:55:00]

If you can get tested early, you can get treated early, and I think that's one of the benefits. Tamiflu will shorten the duration of symptoms. It doesn't necessarily lessen the severity of symptoms, but it can shorten how long you have those symptoms, Pamela.

BROWN: Important information. Dr. Sanjay Gupta, thank you.

DR. GUPTA: You got it.

BROWN: Be sure to scan the QR code on your screen. Head to cnn.com and send us your questions about the flu. Dr. Gupta will be back later this week to answer them.

And coming up in our next hour, I'll speak to White House Senior Trade Counselor Peter Navarro on the president's latest tariffs.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[11:00:00] Trump threatens to withhold funding from Jordan and Egypt if they do not support relocating Palestinians out of Gaza; Next hour: Trump hosting Jordan's king Abdullah at White House; Trump: "Let hell break out" if all hostages not freed Saturday; Hamas threatens to delay release of hostages this weekend; Trump's former personal attorneys take the helm of the DOJ; Trump's former personal attorneys take the helm of DOJ launching investigation into those who tried to prosecute him; Top Trump justice officials who played key roles in defending January 6 cases now leading DOJ "weaponization" review; FBI: 2,400 new JFK assassination files found in new records search; Musk leads group of investors in $97B offer to buy OpenAI; OpenAI CEO says "no thank you" to Musk's offer to buy company; Elon Musk-Sam Altman feud intensifies after new bid for OpenAI; OpenAI CEO fires back at Musk: "I don't think he's a happy person"; Flu cases peaking for a second time this season; Staying safe and health this flu season; Flu cases leading to more hospitalizations across the U.S.>