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Trump Welcomes American Teacher Detained for Three Years in Russia; Jordanian King Pushed Back Trump's Gaza Displacement Plan; Former Spanish Football Chief Testifies on Allegations on the Controversial Kiss; Lava Shoots Out Hawaii's Kilauea Volcano. Aired 3- 4a ET

Aired February 12, 2025 - 03:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[03:00:00]

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

ROSEMARY CHURCH, CNN ANCHOR: Hello and welcome to our viewers joining us from all around the world and to everyone streaming us on CNN Max. I'm Rosemary Church.

Just ahead. A long-awaited homecoming. An American teacher detained in Russia for more than three years is now back on U.S. soil.

Jordan's King Abdullah pushes back on President Trump's plan to displace Palestinians from Gaza.

And lives on the line. We will see the real-world impact of U.S. foreign aid now cut off from refugees in Southeast Asia.

UNKNOWN (voice-over): Live from Atlanta, this is "CNN Newsroom" with Rosemary Church.

CHURCH: Thanks for joining us.

It is 9 a.m. in Brussels, Belgium, where NATO leaders will be getting a crash course in diplomacy under Donald Trump. New U.S. Defense Secretary Pete Hegseth meets with members of the alliance today, where he is expected to push NATO and the European Union to take more responsibility for Ukraine's security.

Sources say he will also urge NATO members to increase defense spending to 5 percent of their GDP. Other members of the Trump administration are in or traveling to Europe as well. They include Secretary of State Marco Rubio, envoy to Ukraine and Russia General Keith Kellogg, and U.S. Vice President J.D. Vance.

Meantime, President Trump says the release of an American detained in Russia could potentially play a role in helping end the war between Russia and Ukraine.

U.S. President Donald Trump welcomed Marc Fogel to the White House last night. The American teacher was arrested in Moscow in 2021 for carrying cannabis and given a 14-year sentence at a hard labor camp as a result. Fogel praised President Trump and other U.S. officials for arranging his release.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

MARC FOGEL, U.S. TEACHER FORMERLY DETAINED IN RUSSIA: It's very hard to articulate how I am proud of you. How proud I am of what you've done and being back in my country.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

CHURCH: Details of the exchange to secure Fogel's release are still unclear, but Mr. Trump says those details will be revealed today. Fogel's mother had met with President Trump last year to advocate for his release. Here's how she reacted when she heard he was finally coming home.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

MALPHINE FOGEL, MARC FOGEL'S MOTHER: He said, I'm in the Moscow airport. And I said, what are you doing in the airport? He said, I'm waiting to get on a plane to Washington, D.C.

And I just was totally blown away. And he said, I'm coming home.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

CHURCH: Marc Fogel's release comes amid concern over President Trump's recent comments where he appeared to suggest Ukraine could potentially fall under Russian control.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DONALD TRUMP, U.S. PRESIDENT: They have tremendously valuable land in terms of rare earth, in terms of oil and gas, in terms of other things. I want to have our money secured because we're spending hundreds of billions of dollars.

And you know, they may make a deal. They may not make a deal. They may be Russian someday or they may not be Russian someday.

But we're going to have all this money in there. And I say I want it back. And I told them that I want the equivalent, like $500 billion worth of rare earth.

And they've essentially agreed to do that. So at least we don't feel stupid.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

CHURCH: But now the Kremlin is echoing those comments. CNN's Nick Paton Walsh has details.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

NICK PATON WALSH, CNN CHIEF INTERNATIONAL SECURITY CORRESPONDENT: Well, for many Ukrainians, it must be jarring to hear the president of the United States talk in what seems to be relatively casual, offhand terms about how Ukraine might someday be Russian or might not be Russian.

He was potentially referring to how that would hinge upon whether Ukraine signs up to a deal, whether that's the peace deal his officials are working on or a more recent initiative over rare earth metals inside of Ukraine.

That's unclear. But it is certainly something that Moscow has seized upon, closer as it is to their position that all of Ukraine should be under Russian control, should be degasified, and that a fifth, in the words of the Kremlin spokesperson, has already bravely, I paraphrase here, stood for becoming part of Russia, something he called an irreversible fact.

This is, of course, coming on the heels of stop-start diplomatic initiatives by the Trump administration.

[03:05:04]

We know that their envoy for Ukraine, General Keith Kellogg, is going to Munich at the end of this week. There were suggestions, potentially, that Donald Trump might meet President Volodymyr Zelenskyy of Ukraine in the days prior to that. That now seems fairly unlikely, given the time constraints.

And indeed, Trump over the weekend said that he had spoken to Russian President Vladimir Putin, something that the Kremlin refused to outright confirm. So lots appear to be moving on the surface, but very little clear, concrete progress or what you might expect to be some kind of roadmap towards a peace deal down the line. And it calls into question two real issues here.

How committed is Trump to Ukraine, an ally of the Biden administration and of the United States for well over three years, whose security is vital to that of America's European allies and NATO, vital trading partners for the United States? Is Trump seeking a quick deal? And if he can't get that, his interest will significantly wane. And more importantly, where does Moscow fit into all of this?

They are winning on the battlefield. They are slowly edging forward, a huge loss to their own forces, but still seeing progress, certainly. And so ultimately, many are asking whether Russia, given that state of progress, is any mood to make a peace deal right now at all.

So much to be addressed in the coming months and many questions, too, about exactly where in his heart Donald Trump lies when it comes to Ukraine's security.

Nick Paton Walsh, CNN, London.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

CHURCH: Jill Dougherty is an adjunct professor at Georgetown University and CNN's former Moscow bureau chief. She joins me now from Washington. Good to have you with us.

JILL DOUGHERTY, CNN CONTRIBUTOR AND FORMER MOSCOW BUREAU CHIEF, AND ADJUNCT PROF., GEORGETOWN UNIVERSITY: Hi, Rosemary.

CHURCH: So let's start with this sudden release of American teacher Mark Fogel by Russia after more than three years in prison there. He appeared with President Trump at the White House Tuesday night. Trump greeted Fogel and said another person will be released on Wednesday.

Now, Trump also said this offered goodwill between the U.S. and Russia for peace talks on the war in Ukraine. What's in it for Russia here, do you think? And what did you make of all of this?

DOUGHERTY: Well, I mean, it's pretty extraordinary, number one, this, you know, to have an American freed.

Actually, kind of unexpectedly, this happened. We don't know a lot of details. Interestingly, it was described as an exchange, but we don't know exchange for whom.

But I think, you know, your question about what Putin, how he's using this or whatever, what he gets out of it, I think what he gets out of it is increasingly good relations with Trump.

And that's what Putin wants. Putin wants to get back on the world stage. He wants to be sitting at the table literally or figuratively with the American president and being a decider. And he wants Russia out of isolation.

He wants the end of sanctions, etc. He would also love to control Ukraine. And that is, of course, what we know what's happening right now. This is to me is an extraordinarily dramatic moment because we're coming into, I guess, the finish line or the beginning of that process of having some type of agreement, ceasefire or whatever, to get this war over.

CHURCH: Indeed. And of course, President Trump recently said in a Fox News interview that, quote, "Ukraine may be Russian someday," amping up pressure presumably on Kyiv ahead of the meeting between Vice President J.D. Vance and President Volodymyr Zelenskyy.

What does Trump mean when he says that? And what's the possible link to the president's desire to get access to around $500 billion in rare earth minerals in Ukraine?

DOUGHERTY: Well, I think what he was trying to do is pressure Zelenskyy. I mean, the way I interpreted that was President Zelenskyy, you'd better do a deal because if you don't, you're going to be part of Russia. In other words, Ukraine will be over, will be taken over by Russia.

Now, Trump, obviously, you can look at him in the middle trying to put pressure on Zelenskyy and on Putin. But it appears that, you know, the pressure on Putin is much less because what are the bargaining points?

He's talked about tariffs. Well, we don't trade with Russia. Sanctions, Russia has been sanctioned ad nauseam for quite a while without a lot of immediate effect. And so he has talked about oil prices. Maybe that's one thing. But essentially, the pressure really now is on Zelenskyy. You can see it very, very clearly.

[03:10:01]

And this is being depicted by President Trump as a, I think he said, big catalyst. This could be a big catalyst in moving towards some type of resolution.

CHURCH: Right. And President Zelenskyy set to meet with US Vice President J.D. Vance in Munich on Friday. Then U.S. special envoy for Ukraine and Russia, Keith Kellogg, is expected to visit Ukraine next week. What's expected to come out of all of these meetings?

DOUGHERTY: Well, I think first they have to decide, are they going to have negotiations? And that appears, yes. Now, who does the negotiating? Where do they meet? Because remember, Russia is pretty isolated right now.

The idea was that they would meet in maybe some type of a neutral country. Would it be Putin and President Trump? Who exactly would be doing that?

And then the biggest question is, what's the deal? What is -- what are these specifics for a deal that would bring an end to this conflict? A ceasefire? What are the details of the ceasefire? Are there peacekeepers, et cetera?

And many and many other really long term questions. Who pays for reconstruction? That's a huge issue.

So I think that's where we're going. But we know the process is moving, but we still don't know details and what the parameters of that agreement could be.

CHURCH: Right. And Russia's deputy foreign minister says any peace negotiations with Ukraine must include Moscow's, quote, "indisputable ownership of annexed Ukrainian region." So how will that work exactly when it comes to these negotiations?

DOUGHERTY: Well, that's another part of it. It appears that President Zelenskyy, even though a while ago he was against this, but he is saying there could be some territorial concessions.

They would be, in his eyes, temporary. In other words, Russia could hold some of the area that it already holds, but that it would be temporary. And the main thing Zelenskyy is talking about is that there has to be some type of guarantee for the long term security of Ukraine.

And that's really a huge sticking point. How do you guarantee that even if you had some type of ceasefire, Russia doesn't just wait it out for a few years and then come back and attack again or attack maybe a neighboring country?

So for security in Europe, this is a very big, complex and very long term challenge for the world community. It won't be over in a day.

And it might not even be over with one agreement. It might be several agreements over many years.

CHURCH: All right, Jill Dougherty, many thanks for joining us and sharing your analysis on this issue. I appreciate it.

We're just getting word from Ukraine that at least one person has been killed and four others injured in an early morning attack on Kyiv. President Volodymyr Zelenskyy says Russia launched ballistic missiles and drones targeting the capital, damaging apartment buildings, offices and civilian infrastructure.

Mr. Zelenskyy says the attack proves that Russia is not gearing up for peace talks. Sources tell CNN U.S. Treasury Secretary Scott Besant will travel to Kyiv soon for talks about the country's mineral deposits.

Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu is vowing the ceasefire in Gaza will collapse and the IDF will return to intense fighting if Hamas does not release hostages on Saturday as planned.

Hamas says it remains committed to the agreement a day after accusing Israel of ceasefire violations and threatening to postpone the hostage release. Benjamin Netanyahu says he appreciates the U.S. president weighing in on the issue.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

BENJAMIN NETANYAHU, ISRAELI PRIME MINISTER (through translator): We all welcomed President Trump's demand for the release of our hostages by Saturday noon, and we all also welcome the president's revolutionary vision for the future of Gaza.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

CHURCH: Meanwhile, U.S. President Donald Trump hosted Jordan's King Abdullah at the White House to discuss the plan for Gaza, which includes a U.S. takeover and moving Palestinians to other Arab nations.

King Abdullah says his country is steadfast against the mass displacement of Palestinians. But President Trump claimed, quote, "U.S. authority to take Gaza" and reiterated his deadline for the hostages release.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

TRUMP: They either have them out by Saturday at 12:00 or all bets are off.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

[03:15:00]

CHURCH: CNN's Jeremy Diamond has the latest. (BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

JEREMY DIAMOND, CNN JERUSALEM CORRESPONDENT: Well, the ceasefire between Israel and Hamas certainly seems to be hanging on by a thread, the most precarious moment in its three week existence so far for a ceasefire that was supposed to last at least six weeks.

The Israeli Prime Minister now issuing this ultimatum, saying if Hamas does not return our hostages by Saturday noon, quote, "the ceasefire will end," saying that Israeli troops who have already begun to amass in greater numbers along the Gaza border will return to the fight in Gaza until, quote, "Hamas is completely defeated."

Now, the Israeli Prime Minister didn't go quite as far as President Trump when he made his ultimatum, saying that all of the hostages, meaning all 76 hostages still being held in Gaza, should be returned by Saturday. Otherwise, the ceasefire should be canceled.

Instead, an Israeli official telling me that Israel is demanding that all nine remaining living hostages who were set to be released during phase one, that they be released in the coming days, indicating that the Prime Minister is perhaps trying to stay intentionally vague here, leaving himself a little bit of wiggle room to strike a deal by Saturday that would keep this ceasefire alive.

Nonetheless, this is a serious threat to this agreement, especially since Hamas has said that it won't release any hostages this coming Saturday, accusing Israel of a series of ceasefire violations, including carrying out attacks against Palestinians in Gaza and indeed the Palestinian Ministry of Health, saying that 92 people have been killed by Israeli fire or shelling since the start of this ceasefire agreement.

Hamas, however, made clear that it is also leaving the door open to releasing hostages on Saturday, saying that it is making this threat with five days' notice in order to give the mediators time to resolve this issue.

And indeed, that is what is happening right now. Egypt and Qatar, the two mediators who have been leading these negotiations between Israel and Hamas, working to try and resolve this dispute, whether or not they can get there in time for Saturday is another question altogether.

Jeremy Diamond, CNN, Tel Aviv.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

CHURCH: Earlier, I spoke with Mohammed Bani Salameh, a professor of political science at Yarmouk University in Jordan, and I asked him what he thought about Donald Trump's claims that the U.S. has the authority to take over Gaza.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

MOHAMMED BANI SALAMEH, PROF. OF POLITICAL SCIENCE, YARMOUK UNIVERSITY: I think this is the mentality of a businessman, not a statesman. Those Palestinian people, they have been living there for millions of years.

And Mr. Trump, maybe he doesn't understand the concept of homeland. If something went wrong in the United States, Mr. Trump maybe will go to another island and live there happily ever after. But not for the Palestinian people who have paid heavily.

And like the rest of nations all over the world, they are entitled to their homeland and to reconstruct, rebuild Gaza and stay there. They won't replace Gaza with any other part in the world. Even if they were offered luxury places in the United Arab Emirates, in Jordan, in Egypt, anywhere, they won't accept it because there is no place like homeland.

CHURCH: And how legal is it to forcibly relocate millions of Palestinians under international law, essentially of the whole population of Gaza? How legal is that?

SALAMEH: Well, international law upholds the principle that individuals cannot be forcibly displaced from their homeland. Such actions contradicts the right to self-determination, a fundamental principle enshrined in numerous international legal instruments, including the United Nations Charter.

And also, it violates the American principles, the American values. And this will deconstruct Americans' credibility in the region.

America is the home of the brave and the land of the free. How do you jeopardize American strategic alliance with countries like Jordan and Egypt in order to implement such an arrogant proposal by President Trump?

(END VIDEO CLIP)

CHURCH: Mohammed Bani Salameh speaking to me there from Mafraq in Jordan.

Still to come, defending DOGE. Elon Musk makes the case for the Department of Government Efficiency, but doesn't have much to say about his own potential conflicts of interest.

[03:20:06]

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CHURCH: U.S. President Donald Trump says he will always abide by the courts, despite a string of recent rulings against his executive orders to reshape the federal government. On Tuesday, reporters heard from the man who's been wielding the president's cost cutting axe, the richest man in the world and head of the Department of Government Efficiency, Elon Musk.

CNN's Jeff Zeleny has details.

[03:24:56]

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE) JEFF ZELENY, CNN CHIEF U.S. NATIONAL AFFAIRS CORRESPONDENT: An extraordinary scene inside the Oval Office on Tuesday evening as President Trump and one of his top advisers, Elon Musk, held court and defended their effort to resize and remake the shape of this federal bureaucracy.

The Department of Government Efficiency is what Elon Musk calls his group. And he was talking about the fraud in his words that he is finding throughout the government. Of course, this is coming as the administration is trying to make a public relations campaign about how they're trying to sort out fraud and waste and abuse.

But Elon Musk said he would be transparent as he goes forward.

ELON MUSK, DEPARTMENT OF GOVERNMENT EFFICIENCY: All of our actions are fully public. So if you see anything, you say, like, wait a second. Hey, that doesn't that seems like maybe that's, you know, there's a conflict there. I don't like people are going to be shy about saying that they'll say it immediately.

ZELENY: But the world's richest man is not filing his own financial disclosure documents. Of course, he receives billions in government contracts as well, certainly raising some questions about that.

But the president, for his part, as he watched Elon Musk talk about his efforts here, he pushed back on what judges are doing across the country to some of these moves.

TRUMP: Any court that would say that the president or his representatives, like Secretary of the Treasury, Secretary of State, whatever, doesn't have the right to go over their books and make sure everything's honest.

And how can you have a country? You can't have anything that way. You can't have a business that way. You can't have a country that way.

ZELENY: So taken together, seeing Trump and Musk really for the first time together in the Oval Office on a snowy evening in Washington, it certainly was a memorable one.

Elon Musk coming out of the shadows somewhat to explain what he's doing inside the government. So many questions, though, remain among Congress and, of course, the courts.

Jeff Zeleny, CNN, the White House.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

CHURCH: The Associated Press says its reporter was blocked from an executive order signing on Tuesday because the agency refuses to call the Gulf of Mexico the Gulf of America. President Trump signed an order changing the name and declaring February 9th the Gulf of America Day.

The A.P. says it acknowledges President Trump's name change, but it will continue to use the name that's existed for more than 400 years. Another Trump initiative, the freezing of humanitarian aid. Still to come, we'll see the real impact of those cuts at a refugee camp in Thailand.

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[03:30:00]

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

ROSEMARY CHURCH, CNN ANCHOR: The Inspector General of USAID was fired on Tuesday, one day after releasing a report criticizing efforts to dismantle the agency, according to a source familiar with the matter.

Paul Martin was told via email that his position was terminated effective immediately. A spokesperson for his office said no reason was given. The administration is required, under law, to provide 30 days' notice to Congress before firing an Inspector General and is supposed to provide reasons.

USAID oversees the distribution of foreign aid from the United States. The Trump administration has moved swiftly to make cuts to the agency, freeze funding and put staff on leave.

The sweeping changes ordered by President Trump and Elon Musk are having a real impact on people across the world who desperately need help. Ivan Watson takes us inside a refugee camp in Thailand.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

IVAN WATSON, CNN SR. INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): This is what happens when the world's biggest aid donor suddenly stops sending money.

Families ordered to evacuate their sick loved ones from this hospital in the mountains of western Thailand. Days later, the hospital deserted, its front gate locked shut.

WATSON: This is a refugee camp for tens of thousands of people who fled the civil war across the nearby border in neighboring Myanmar. The hospital here largely depended on U.S. government funding which suddenly stopped and now nearly two weeks later there isn't a single doctor on duty for this community of more than 30,000 people.

WATSON (voice-over): It's a 30-minute drive from this sprawling refugee camp to the nearest Thai hospital. The director here shocked by the sudden closure of the camp hospital.

WATSON: Has this been stressful these last two weeks for you?

UNKNOWN: Yes, I think so.

WATSON (voice-over): His facility has to suddenly absorb some of the refugee camp's patients and that includes 32-year-old Mary.

WATSON: Is this your first baby? UNKNOWN: Yes.

WATSON: You're going to be a mama soon. You're going to be a mother.

UNKNOWN: Yes.

WATSON (voice-over): Suffering high blood pressure, she was rushed to this maternity ward this morning and is now in labor far from her family and home at the camp.

UNKNOWN (through translator): I just want to ask the U.S. government why they have to stop helping the refugees.

On January 20th, President Donald Trump ordered an immediate 90-day pause in all U.S. foreign aid. He declared the U.S. aid industry is not aligned with American interests and claims it serves to destabilize world peace.

For years, Myanmar has been ripped apart by a brutal civil war. A military dictatorship that seized power in a coup in 2021, battling numerous insurgent groups.

The conflicts forced more than three million people to flee their homes and now aid organizations tell CNN they only have a month and a half of funding left to feed refugees along the Thai border with Myanmar.

[03:35:09]

Leaving smaller aid groups scrambling to fill the gap.

WATSON: You're going into Myanmar.

KANCHANA THORNTON, DIRECTOR, BURMA CHILDREN'S MEDICAL FUND: This will go across the border.

WATSON (voice-over): Kanchana Thornton regularly takes food, infant formula and medicine across the border river to desperate people in the conflict zone. The U.S. funding cut made matters worse.

WATSON: Why is it affecting you? You don't get money from Washington.

THORNTON: Well, patients come to us and asking us for help.

WATSON: Because they're not getting it from the original.

THORNTON: Yes, because they're not getting support that they should from the NGO that got the funding cut.

WATSON (voice-over): Everywhere we go in this poverty -stricken border region, we hear about basic services disrupted and aid workers being laid off.

WATSON: This clinic treats nearly 500 patients a day. It receives nearly 20 percent of its funding from the U.S. government. Washington has been sending money here for at least 20 years, but now all of that has stopped.

WATSON (voice-over): Uncertainty now felt by Rebecca and her nine- year-old daughter Rosella.

WATSON: Yes, can you show me your favorite pictures?

WATSON (voice-over): They're residents of the refugee camp who had to move out of the hospital when it shut down last month. Even though Rosella was born with a bone condition, she needs oxygen around the clock.

My daughter needs the hospital to be open, Rebecca says, and so do I because I'm pregnant.

The cut in U.S. funding means this pregnant mother no longer has access to a doctor and she doesn't know how much longer her daughter's oxygen will last.

WATSON: The pause in U.S. funding has already become a matter of life and death here. The International Rescue Committee tells CNN that an elderly woman who couldn't get access to supplemental oxygen died after the hospital in her refugee camp closed last month.

Life has never been easy for refugees in this porous border region, and if the world's largest aid donor truly does pull out, I think it's fair to say life will get much, much harder.

Ivan Watson, CNN, on the Thailand-Myanmar border.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

CHURCH: U.S. President Donald Trump reiterated his plan to relocate Palestinians in Gaza and redevelop the land as he hosted King Abdullah of Jordan at the White House.

King Abdullah says Jordan remains steadfast against displacing Palestinians, but President Trump told reporters he doesn't need to threaten Jordan on withholding financial aid to get them to accept Palestinian refugees.

The Jordanian foreign minister says moving Palestinians is not an option.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

AYMAN SAFADI, JORDANIAN FOREIGN MINISTER: We're having a conversation with the president. He presented his views, we presented ours. Our position is very clear in Jordan that we cannot afford any more refugees. We're the largest per capita host of refugees in the region.

We have 35 percent of our population are refugees. So we made that clear, and I think the president understands that, that what we want is to achieve peace, what we want is to rebuild Gaza. And again, the president says that his plan is driven by his humanitarian concern, which we appreciate. Our position is that we can rebuild Gaza without Gazans leaving Gaza,

and Gazans leaving Gaza will not be a solution. And for us in Jordan, it is a matter of stability and security, and therefore our position is that we should solve the Palestinian issue in Palestine, on Palestinian land, and this conversation with the administration will continue. I think the objective is to bring about peace.

The president says he wants to bring about peace. We are partners for him in bringing about that peace and just peace. But our position is very clear, in order for peace to be lasting, for everybody to feel secure, we have to have the two-state solutions where Palestinians stay in Palestine and do not leave their country.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

CHURCH: Meantime, Egypt is planning an emergency Arab League summit this month to discuss the new developments on the issue, but President Trump is reiterating his plan to take over Gaza.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DONALD TRUMP, U.S. PRESIDENT: We're not going to buy anything. We're going to have it, and we're going to keep it, and there's not going to be any problem, and nobody's going to question it.

There is nothing to buy. It's Gaza. It's a war-torn area. We're going to take it. We're going to hold it. We're going to cherish it.

REPORTER: Take it under what authority? It is sovereign territory.

TRUMP: Under the U.S. authority.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

CHURCH: Other world leaders are also showing their concern over President Trump's Gaza plan. Last week, our Richard Quest sat down with French President Emmanuel Macron. He praised Mr. Trump's efforts in the region, but says the current proposal is not the right answer for Palestinians in Gaza.

[03:39:56]

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

EMMANUEL MACRON, FRENCH PRESIDENT: Look, I think President Trump took a very bold and important decision in the past regarding this region with the Abraham Agreement, and I have to say that these moves were very smart and efficient moves and did change the situation.

Second, a lot of military operations targeted against Hezbollah, Shiite militias, and top leaders in Iran launched by -- and obviously Hamas leaders launched by Israel -- did change the landscape and weaken these strategic enemies. But we are in a situation which is absolutely terrible for everybody in Gaza since more than one year.

Obviously, we did condemn the terrorist attack launched by Hamas against Israel, and we are very much attached to the right of Israel to live in peace and security in this region.

And we do support the existence and security of the State of Israel and all the Israeli people. But I always reiterated my disagreement with Prime Minister Netanyahu and my condemnation of the operations launched in Gaza because I don't believe, once again, that such massive operations targeting sometimes civilian people is the right answer.

This is today a humanitarian situation.

So we have the ceasefire, we have to preserve it, we have to restore humanitarian operations, and we have to save the maximum number of people. But now the right answer is not a real estate operation. This is a political operation.

Just because this is not a free land, this is a place where two million people live and want to live. And just because international rights and a lot of treaties and agreements were negotiated, and even the U.S. did recognize this right. So you cannot say to two million people, OK, now guess what? You will move.

The whole story of humanity is made of a tiny part of places where even less than two million people were ready to go to the end because they wanted just to stay. So I think we have to stick to our principles.

Sometimes in this world you have the feeling to be so old-fashioned when you speak about principles. But I will tell you, this is humanity. And the civilization is a process.

And the process of the civilization is that you learn generation after generation. And this is how you improve yourself. And we did learn that you can get rid of people and just push them out of their place when they have a legitimate right to live in their place, being recognized by everybody.

So I think we have to respect the willingness of Palestinian people to have a state. And we have to respect Jordan, Egypt, these sovereign countries because they want their security. They want to keep their borders.

And they just say, what are you doing? What are you proposing? You want to push them to my country? So let's be collectively respectful because it will be the precondition to be efficient.

And I think being efficient doesn't mean automatically that you should lack of respect to people or countries. So I think what we need now is a collective approach by Arab and Gulf leaders with European leaders when they are ready to do so, to work together and to build. And I think it would be great if the U.S. could join.

The day after in Gaza, which political system and leadership? What type of security guarantees? And obviously, which type of reconstruction?

(END VIDEO CLIP) CHURCH: President Macron talking to our Richard Quest there.

Still to come, new fallout from the latest attempted power grab by Elon Musk against OpenAI CEO Sam Altman. Why it's not just business, it's also personal.

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[03:45:00]

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

CHURCH: Welcome back, everyone.

The feud between billionaire tech rivals Elon Musk and OpenAI CEO Sam Altman is getting more personal after Altman told a Musk-backed group of investors that the ChatGPT maker is not for sale. Altman rejected the $97 billion offer and suggested he feels sorry for Musk.

More now from CNN's Brian Todd.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

BRIAN TODD, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): As Elon Musk tries to build his empire to an even greater degree, he gets rebuffed by one of his biggest personal rivals.

SAM ALTMAN, CEO, OPENAI: It's like another one of his tactics to try to mess with us.

TODD (voice-over): Sam Altman, the 39-year-old CEO of OpenAI, has rejected an unsolicited offer from Musk to buy OpenAI for $97.4 billion. Altman says his company is not for sale and told Bloomberg T.V. he thinks he knows why Musk made that offer.

ALTMAN: I think he's probably just trying to slow us down.

SARA FISCHER, CNN MEDIA ANALYST: I think what you're seeing here is that Elon Musk, who has such tension with Sam Altman, could try to buy the company to squash it or integrate it into his own company, XAI.

TODD (voice-over): XAI is Musk's own artificial intelligence company founded less than two years ago. It's seen as smaller, not as advanced as Altman's OpenAI, a leading company in the innovation and marketing of artificial intelligence that wowed the public with its sophisticated, groundbreaking tool, ChatGPT.

[03:50:05]

Altman didn't just reject Musk's bid, he got harshly personal in describing the world's richest man.

ALTMAN: Probably his whole life is from a position of insecurity. I feel for the guy.

UNKNOWN: You feel for him? ALTMAN: I do, actually. I don't think he's like a happy person. I do

feel for him.

TODD (voice-over): A far cry from a decade ago when Altman and Musk co-founded OpenAI as a charity.

ZOE SCHIFFER, AUTHOR, "EXTREMELY HARDCORE: INSIDE ELON MUSK'S TWITTER": Sam Altman has said that he really looked up to Elon Musk at the time.

FISCHER: When they launched OpenAI together, they were considered on top of Silicon Valley and they were doing it as a whole.

TODD (voice-over): But in 2018, Musk left OpenAI.

SCHIFFER: OpenAI's perspective is that Elon Musk wanted to take over OpenAI. He wanted to merge it with Tesla, in fact, and that when Sam Altman refused to do that and in fact took over the company himself, that's when their relationship really started to break down.

TODD (voice-over): Musk has since filed multiple lawsuits against OpenAI, accusing the company of betraying its non-profit mission by looking to make a profit with its AI tools, an accusation Altman denies.

Their feud spilled out in public again last month when President Trump hosted Altman and two other CEOs at the White House to launch a $500 billion A.I. infrastructure investment.

Musk tried to undermine the announcement, posting, quote, "they don't actually have the money." Trump himself commented on Musk's disdain for Altman.

TRUMP: He hates one of the people in the deal.

FISCHER: Now this relationship has soured so much to the fact that they're, you know, trading public barbs. It really speaks to how much the Trump relationship has really come between the two of them.

TODD: Sam Altman also said he's not concerned that Elon Musk has a new and powerful position in Donald Trump's White House, but he acknowledged he probably should be concerned about that. Spokespeople for Musk and for X did not respond to CNN's request for comment on Altman's latest remarks about Musk.

Brian Todd, CNN, Washington.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

CHURCH: Still to come, Spain's former football chief Luis Rubiales testifies in his sexual assault trial as he tries to defend his unwanted World Cup kiss.

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CHURCH: Welcome back, everyone. Former Spanish football Chief Luis Rubiales has taken the stand in his sexual assault trial claiming he asked for consent before kissing Women's World Cup winner Jennifer Hermoso. More now on his testimony from CNN's Pau Mosquera.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

PAU MOSQUERA, CNN CORRESPONDENT: In today's session, the judge has heard from two different experts proposed by Rubiales' defense and also listened to Rubiales himself. While answering to the different questions made by both the prosecutor and the complaining lawyers, Rubiales stated that the kiss was consensual.

[03:55:06]

He actually said that he firstly asked Hermoso about it, about giving her a little kiss, and she consented by saying, OK.

LUIS RUBIALES, FORMER SPANISH FOOTBALL FEDERATION CHIEF (through translator): It was a tense match. It was really intense for her. But I told her, forget about the penalty.

We're champions. And that's thanks to you. Without you, we wouldn't have been able to achieve it.

She then grabbed me very tightly under the armpits and lifted me up. Once I got back to the ground, I asked her, can I give you a little kiss? And she said, OK. And that's what happened.

MOSQUERA: He also justified the kiss as a show of affection to Hermoso after seeing her distressed from missing a penalty. Nevertheless, he acknowledged that he did not act well, that he should have kept a cooler head and play more of an institutional role.

He also denied committing any sexual assault or pressing his environment to coerce Hermoso as to justify the kiss. As in today's session, there was no time to listen to the four defendants.

The judge will continue tomorrow listening to the other three ones accused of coercion, as, for example, former women's national team coach Jorge Bilde. After that, it's going to be time for the final reports.

And once the trial has gotten to an end in a matter of a week or two, we're going to have the verdict.

Paul Mosquera, CNN, Madrid.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

CHURCH: Police have arrested about 130 people in a large-scale sting operation against the mafia in Sicily. It targeted members of the Cosa Nostra, the mafia syndicate based in and around Palermo, which terrorized Italy in the 1980s and 90s.

Authorities say it has since weakened but continues to attract new young members. Those arrested Tuesday are charged with various crimes, including drug trafficking, attempted murder, extortion, illegal gambling and possession of firearms.

And lava is once again exploding out of the Kilauea Volcano on the Big Island of Hawaii, shooting about 100 meters into the air. Kilauea, one of the world's most active volcanoes, has been erupting on and off for nearly two months.

Earlier eruptions have lasted around 13 hours to eight days, with pauses in between. The eruption site is inside Hawaii's Volcanoes National Park and no homes are threatened by the lava.

Thanks so much for spending part of your day with me. I'm Rosemary Church. "CNN Newsroom" continues next with Christina Macfarlane in London.

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