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U.S. Teacher Detained in Russia Freed in Exchange; Trump, Musk Blast Bureaucracy, Defend Sweeping Cuts; How Trump's Gaza Plan Could Complicate Ties in Middle East; Trump: Ukraine May or May Not Be Russian Someday. Aired 4-4:30a ET

Aired February 12, 2025 - 04:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[04:00:00]

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I feel like the luckiest man on Earth right now. Thank you all. I love our country, and I'm so happy to be back here.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: He said I should be in Washington tonight.

ELON MUSK, DEPARTMENT OF GOVERNMENT EFFICIENCY: We are moving fast, so we all make mistakes, but we'll also fix the mistakes very quickly. Transparency is what builds trust.

DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: It's a war-torn area. We're going to take it, we're going to hold it, we're going to cherish it.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: What is this nonsense? I fear for an Israel that is seen as engaging in ethnic cleansing.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

ANNOUNCER: Live from London, this is CNN NEWSROOM with Max Foster and Christina Macfarlane.

CHRISTINA MACFARLANE, CNN ANCHOR: Hello, and a very warm welcome to our viewers joining us from all around the world. I'm Christina Macfarlane. It's Wednesday, February 12th, 9 a.m. here in London, 4 a.m. in Washington, D.C., where another American detained in Russia is now back on U.S. soil.

President Donald Trump welcomed Marc Fogel to the White House last night. The American teacher was arrested in Moscow in 2021 for carrying cannabis and given a 14-year sentence at a hard labor camp as a result. Fogel praised President Trump and other U.S. officials for arranging his release.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

MARC FOGEL, U.S. TEACHER FORMERLY DETAINED IN RUSSIA: I feel like the luckiest man on earth right now. And I want you to know that I am not a hero in this at all. And President Trump is a hero. These men that came from the diplomatic service are heroes. The senators and representatives that passed legislation in my honor to get me home are the heroes. I am in awe of what they all did.

My family has been a force. I think my 95-year-old mother is probably the most dynamic 95-year-old on earth right now. And I am so indebted to so many people.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

MACFARLANE: Well, the details of the exchange to secure Fogel's release are still unclear, but Mr. Trump said those would be revealed today and he shared some more information about the deal.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: What were the terms of this deal, Mr. President?

DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: Very fair, very, very fair, very reasonable. Not like deals you've seen over the years. They were very fair.

And I think that's going to lead -- and somebody else is being released tomorrow that you will know of, but we wanted to get this done, very important.

I think there's goodwill in terms of the war. You know, a million and a half soldiers, young people have been killed.

FOGEL: I've met many of them.

TRUMP: Yes, and it's a terrible thing going on, so we want to get that done. I think this could be the very important element. You could be a big part of it, actually, because it could be a big, important part of getting the war over with Ukraine.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

MACFARLANE: CNN's Fred Pleitgen is joining us now live from Moscow with more details. And, Fred, I guess we don't have the full picture yet of the circumstances around Fogel's release, but we do know that it involved the president's special envoy, Witkoff, Steven Witkoff, flying to Moscow, and crucially, as we just heard there, an indication that another prisoner is set to be released on Wednesday.

FREDERIK PLEITGEN, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Yes, a lot of secrecy around all this, a lot of it really shaping up throughout the better part of the day tomorrow. And, Christina, you're absolutely right. It really started in the early morning hours of yesterday when it appeared as though a plane belonging to Steve Witkoff had landed here in Moscow.

It was unclear why. It certainly seemed as though it had come direct from the United States. And there was then a conference call with the spokesman for the Kremlin, Dmitry Peskov, where he was asked why that plane was here, what was going on, and he said that he couldn't shed any light on that and that he didn't have any further information.

And it really wasn't until the end of the day, until very late in the evening, that then the White House came out with a statement saying that Marc Fogel had been released, that he was back on his way to the United States. And crucially also, Christina, that the White House was saying that all of this was a negotiated exchange, an exchange that was negotiated by President Trump, by Steve Witkoff, with the administration of Vladimir Putin.

[04:05:03]

Now, we just heard the president speak there. Again, unclear what exactly the Russians are getting in return for all of this. The president only saying that it was very fair. So far, we have not heard from the Kremlin.

And also, Marc Fogel's lawyer here in Russia came out yesterday and said -- I'm just going to paraphrase this a little bit -- he said, we do not yet know on what grounds Marc Fogel was released from prison by pardon or in some other way.

So clearly, his legal team didn't know that this was going to happen, what was going to happen, and why the Russians decided to release Marc Fogel in the end. Certainly, however, of course, a great event for Marc Fogel. I actually knew him and his family very well when they were living here.

And he, of course, had that big ordeal that he's gone through over the past almost four years when he was detained at Sheremetyevo Airport, was then sentenced to 14 years in prison. And one of the things that we know, Christina, that really hit the family and those who supported Marc Fogel very hard is the fact that last year, of course, there was a big prisoner swap that, for instance, saw Evan Gershkovich, the U.S. journalist, released, saw Vadim Krasikov on the Russian side released, but Marc Fogel was not part of that. So they were very disappointed on that.

And we can see in the pictures from the White House the happiness, the joy on the face of Marc Fogel of now being released.

And now, of course, the big talk of the town here in Moscow following up is what exactly those words from President Trump mean that someone else is going to be released on Wednesday, which, of course, is today. Whether or not that means that someone's going to be released from Russia, what other details there are, we are waiting to hear from the Kremlin in the next couple of hours -- Christina.

MACFARLANE: Yes, and it certainly is good to see him back on U.S. soil, regardless of the circumstances, especially for his 95-year-old mother who has, you know, so long been petitioning for his release.

This was the first time, though, Fred, that a top U.S. official had visited Moscow to bring home a prisoner since the start of the war with Steven Wyckoff. The president called this a sign of goodwill, what is taking place here. But what does this spell at a time when diplomatic discussions are still going on between, as we understand it, Russia and the U.S., the means to ending the war in Ukraine? What is the bigger picture?

PLEITGEN: Yes, they're going on and they're actually just starting. But you're absolutely right. Of course, this is something that is really a novelty over the past couple of years since Russia's full-on invasion of Ukraine to have a top-level U.S. envoy travel here to the Russian Federation. And I think one of the things that we were looking at when we heard President Trump, and we also saw that statement from the White House, is that President Trump and his administration is clearly linking this event to their efforts to try and end the war in Ukraine, which, of course, the Trump administration has said is a priority for them.

And where President Trump just a couple of days ago said that he believes that tremendous progress had been made and this prisoner release or this prisoner -- or this exchange, as the administration calls it, could be part of that as well.

One of the things that you see and you feel here in the Russian capital is that there does appear to be a lot of movement, a lot of momentum, although officials here not really willing to talk about what exactly that means.

What they haven't confirmed is whether or not President Trump and Russian President Vladimir Putin really have spoken on the phone to one another yet. They say they cannot confirm or deny. We know the president has said that they have indeed spoken.

But one of the things that the Russians are acknowledging is that there are contacts on many levels that are taking place and contacts that have dramatically intensified over the past couple of weeks since the Trump administration took office.

So clearly there is some momentum. It appears as though the Trump administration is trying to build up better relations with the Putin administration, better relations with Russia, to at least get on speaking terms again, obviously for the Trump administration, with the ultimate goal of trying to end what Russia still calls its special military operation in Ukraine.

The Russians, though, over the past couple of days have indicated that a lot of that might be a lot more difficult than President Trump thinks. Of course, he started out saying that he would do all of this in a day. He's now realized it's going to be tougher than that.

The Russians have come out and said that there are a lot of conditions for their side that they are not willing to budge from, especially regarding the territory that they've taken in Ukraine, of course, some of the territory also that the Ukrainians are holding in the Kursk region as well -- Christina.

MACFARLANE: Fred, always great for us to have you up there live from Moscow to bring us that perspective, Fred Pleitgen there. Thank you.

Turning now to the White House, where Donald Trump's Department of Government Efficiency is on the defensive.

Tech billionaire and unofficial first buddy Elon Musk appeared with the president in the Oval Office Tuesday, making the case for sweeping cuts to the federal government. Musk continues to claim, with little evidence, it's rife with unelected fraudsters accepting kickbacks, becoming millionaires through deceit. But he says he and his team are not perfect.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

[04:10:03]

ELON MUSK, DEPARTMENT OF GOVERNMENT EFFICIENCY: We are moving fast, so we all make mistakes, but we'll also fix the mistakes very quickly.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

MACFARLANE: Well, Musk claimed Donald Trump's election victory is all the authority he needs to gut entire agencies and access taxpayer data from the Treasury Department.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

MUSK: If the people cannot vote, and have their will be decided by their elected representatives, in the form of the president and the Senate and the House, then we don't live in a democracy, we live in a bureaucracy. So it's incredibly important that we close that feedback loop, we fix that feedback loop, and that the public -- that the public's elected representatives, the president, the House and the Senate, decide what happens, as opposed to a large, unelected bureaucracy.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

MACFARLANE: Well, it's worth noting that Musk himself is an unelected bureaucrat, whose businesses have billions of dollars in government contracts. President Trump was less concerned about any potential conflicts of interest and instead focused on recent judicial rulings against his executive actions.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

TRUMP: We're talking about tens of billions of dollars that we've already found, and now a judge who's an activist judge wants to try and stop us from doing this. Why would they want to do that? I campaigned on this. I campaigned on the fact that I said government is corrupt, and it is very corrupt.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

MACFARLANE: More now from CNN's Jeff Zeleny, reporting from the White House.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

JEFF ZELENY, CNN CHIEF U.S. NATIONAL AFFAIRS CORRESPONDENT: An extraordinary scene inside the Oval Office on Tuesday evening, as President Trump and one of his top advisers, Elon Musk, held court and defended their effort to resize and remake the shape of this federal bureaucracy. The Department of Government Efficiency is what Elon Musk calls his group, and he was talking about the fraud, in his words, that he is finding throughout the government. Of course, this is coming as the administration is trying to make a public relations campaign about how they're trying to sort out fraud and waste and abuse.

But Elon Musk said he would be transparent as he goes forward.

MUSK: All of our actions are fully public. So if you see anything, you say, like, wait a second, hey, Elon, that seems like maybe that's, you know, there's a conflict there. It's not like people are going to be shy about saying that. They'll say it immediately.

ZELENY: But the world's richest man is not filing his own financial disclosure documents. Of course, he receives billions in government contracts as well, certainly raising some questions about that. But the president, for his part, as he watched Elon Musk talk about his efforts here, he pushed back on what judges are doing across the country to some of these moves.

TRUMP: Any court that would say that the president or his representatives, like Secretary of the Treasury, Secretary of State, whatever, doesn't have the right to go over their books and make sure everything's honest, I mean, how can you have a country? You can't have anything that way. You can't have a business that way. You can't have a country that way.

ZELENY: So taken together, seeing Trump and Musk really for the first time together in the Oval Office on a snowy evening in Washington, it certainly was a memorable one. Elon Musk coming out of the shadows somewhat to explain what he's doing inside the government. So many questions, though, remain among Congress and, of course, the courts.

Jeff Zeleny, CNN, the White House.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

MACFARLANE: Hard not to notice that Elon Musk also brought his son X with him to the Oval Office. The four-year-old fidgeted around the Resolute desk and stared at the president while his father spoke. And at one point, he climbed on his father's shoulders, as you can see there, playing with his Make America Great Again hat.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

MUSK: Well, if you don't have a feedback loop -- OK X -- we'd have to -- If you -- Sorry. I'll tell you, gravitas can be difficult sometimes.

Well, as I mentioned earlier, really, the first order of business is to make sure we're actually collecting -- Sorry for this.

I thought my son might enjoy this, but he's sticking his fingers in my ears still. It's a bit hard to hear sometimes. Hey, stop that.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

MACFARLANE: Now, Israeli protesters are taking to the streets with a clear message for their government, holding signs that say, don't blow the deal. This comes after Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu issued an ultimatum to Hamas.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

BENJAMIN NETANYAHU, ISRAELI PRIME MINISTER (through translator): If Hamas does not return our hostages by Saturday noon, the ceasefire will end, and the IDF will return to intense fighting until Hamas is completely defeated.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

MACFARLANE: Well, Hamas says it remains committed to the agreement a day after accusing Israel of ceasefire violations and threatening to postpone the hostage release. Netanyahu, though, seems emboldened by support from the U.S. President Donald Trump. Mr. Trump is doubling down on what he calls his deadline to Hamas and repeating his plans for the U.S. to take over and redevelop Gaza.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

TRUMP: We're not going to have to buy. We're going to have Gaza. We don't have to buy. There's nothing to buy. We will have Gaza.

[04:15:00]

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: What is that?

TRUMP: No reason to buy. There is nothing to buy. It's Gaza. It's a war-torn area. We're going to take it. We're going to hold it. We're going to cherish it.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: And, Mr. President, take it under what authority? It is sovereignty.

TRUMP: Under the U.S. authority.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

MACFARLANE: Well, President Trump hosted Jordan's King Abdullah at the White House to discuss plans, which includes forcibly moving about 2 million Palestinians from Gaza to other Arab nations.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

TRUMP: It's going to be where we ultimately choose as a group. And I believe we'll have a parcel of land in Jordan. I believe we'll have a parcel of land in Egypt. We may have someplace else.

(END VIDEO CLIP) MACFARLANE: Well, Salma's here to discuss with us. And, Salma, this is a pretty awkward press conference for the King Abdullah of Jordan. I believe the first Arab leader to meet Donald Trump since the Gaza plan was floated, which he's already said he rejects that notion of annexing Gaza, but also any idea that Jordan would take in displaced Palestinians.

SALMA ABDELAZIZ, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Absolutely. And Jordan has its reasons for this. About half of Jordan's population is of Palestinian descent. Some 35 percent of Jordan's make-up are refugees.

They are basically at breaking point from taking in others from other nations, as it is already. What King Abdullah did agree to was to take about 2,000 sick Palestinian children, but he again emphasized that Trump's plan is not a plan at all.

Take a listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

KING ABDULLAH II, JORDAN: I think the point is how do we make this work in a way that is good for everybody? Obviously, we have to look at the best interests of the United States, of the people in the region, especially to my people of Jordan.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

ABDELAZIZ: Now, what's happening behind the scenes is that Arab countries, including Egypt, Jordan, Saudi Arabia, Qatar, those involved in mediation efforts are essentially trying to formulate their own plan, their own proposal to counter President Trump's shock announcement that he would, as he said there, right next to King Abdullah, just take Gaza under the authority of the United States.

But will that deal pass? What is that deal? What does it look like? Can you even counter President Trump at a time like this? That's the macro level.

And then on the micro level, of course, the hostage deal, which right now is in question. You have Hamas saying that Israel's committed ceasefire violations. You have the deadline of Saturday coming up when Trump has said that all hell will break loose if Hamas does not let those hostages go.

So you have mediators saying, in the short term, maybe we could find a resolution to keep that negotiation process going for Saturday so that we see that exchange happen. But bigger picture here, first phase of the deal expires March 1st, and there is no sign that these truce talks will continue, especially with President Trump's shock move here.

MACFARLANE: Yes, so much at stake and a lot to play. In the meantime, Salma, thank you.

Now President Trump's plan for Gaza is being welcomed by some in Israel's far right, but critics say it could jeopardize Israel's ties with other countries in the Middle East and beyond.

Here's New York Times foreign affairs columnist and author Thomas Friedman.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

THOMAS L. FRIEDMAN, FOREIGN AFFAIRS OPINION COLUMNIST, NEW YORK TIMES: Netanyahu wants everyone to believe that everything's been tried and nothing is left except to throw these people out. And I fear for an Israel that is seen as engaging in ethnic cleansing. You do that, and every Jew in the world will learn what it is to be a Jew in the world when the Jewish state is a pariah.

I have no truck with Hamas. They're a wicked, terrible organization, first and foremost for Palestinians. Their leadership needs to be removed and their people basically liberated from them.

But this needs to be done with a coherent plan, not a president riffing about it and saying, you're going to take them and you're going to take them and we're not going to pay anything and I'm going to own it. What Is this nonsense?

What happens if Xi Jinping in China wakes up tomorrow and says to Taiwan, I own you, baby. All of you are going to have to leave or accept my leadership. What is the difference?

(END VIDEOTAPE)

MACFARLANE: Now the first of this week's back to back to back. Winter storms in the U.S. has transformed some areas into a winter wonderland. In cities like Blacksburg, Virginia, home of the Virginia Tech University, a steady snowfall began Tuesday and parts of the state could wake up to several more inches of snow today.

But Virginia Tech students sure didn't seem to mind. Their classes were cancelled and that meant there was time for a massive snowball fight on campus. Pleased to see.

So that's one storm down and two more to go. Meteorologist Derek Van Dam explains the weather phenomenon fueling this parade of storms.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

DEREK VAN DAM, CNN METEOROLOGIST: This parade of winter storms is being driven by the upper level winds known as the jet stream.

[04:20:00]

Notice how they enter the west coast and then quickly traverse the country to the east coast. So we're lining up one storm after another after another. We're calling it a parade of storms.

And the initial storm, storm number one this week, just about to exit off the east coast, but not before the damage has already been done. We've had some significant icing across western portions of Virginia, snowfall across the mid-Atlantic, and heavy rainfall to the south. We get a brief lull in the precipitation for let's say about a six to eight hour period before precipitation re-enters into the equation. Actually impacts some of the same locations as what we experienced overnight and into early this morning. Icing potential and maybe a rain-snow mix across portions of Virginia.

This will be all heavy rain to the south and east. And then the major difference between storm number one and storm number two is the northward extent of the snowfall. So places like Detroit, Grand Rapids, Michigan, into Chicago, Des Moines, Iowa, there will be a quick swath of snow that could total over six inches, depending on where you're located, with this secondary storm system before it exits off the east coast by this time tomorrow morning.

So the storm total snowfall accumulation for both of these storms, there it is across the mid-Atlantic, six to eight inches in some of those favored areas, especially the higher elevations. And then across the Great Lakes and into the plains and parts of the Midwest, there it is four to seven inches of snowfall from that secondary storm system. But the ice potential here is very significant, so it'll be treacherous driving conditions in and around the Blue Ridge Mountains, for instance, the spine of the Appalachian Mountains, into western Virginia near Roanoke.

This area is expecting a significant icing event out of both of these systems. Further south, where it's warmer, it will be all heavy rainfall, but that leads to localized flash flood potential. Atlanta to Birmingham towards Shreveport as well.

And speaking of a flash flood potential, the third storm enters the equation on Thursday into Friday, and then we've got our burn scars recently from the fires near Los Angeles. This could lead to debris flow and mud flows, so we're going to keep a close eye on this area as well. Back to you.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

MACFARLANE: A new deadly attack on Ukraine's capital draws a swift response from President Volodymyr Zelenskyy. His message about potential peace talks with Russia just ahead.

Plus, Europe invests big in the future of AI, the latest on the Paris summit on artificial intelligence and how the EU is trying to become a power play in the industry.

And the bane of many smartphone users is gone. We'll show you what happened to the Duolingo owl.

[04:25:00]

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

MACFARLANE: Ukraine reports at least one person has been killed and four others injured in an early morning attack in Kyiv. President Volodymyr Zelenskyy says Russia launched ballistic missiles and drones targeting the capital, damaging apartment buildings, offices, and civilian infrastructure. Mr. Zelenskyy says the attack proves that Russia is not gearing up for peace talks.

Well, U.S. Defense Secretary Pete Hegseth is in Brussels today meeting with NATO and European Union leaders. He's expected to join other top U.S. officials, including Secretary of State Marco Rubio, in pushing for Europe to take on a much greater role in supporting Ukraine. Sources say Hegseth will urge NATO countries to increase defense spending from 2 percent to 5 percent of their GDPs, and the Trump administration wants members to start making more weapons and equipment more quickly.

These meetings come amid concern over President Trump's recent comments, where he appeared to suggest Ukraine could potentially fall under Russian control. And now the Kremlin is echoing those comments. CNN's Nick Paton Walsh has the details.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

NICK PATON WALSH, CNN CHIEF INTERNATIONAL SECURITY CORRESPONDENT: Well, for many Ukrainians, it must be jarring to hear the President of the United States talk in what seems to be relatively casual, offhand terms about how Ukraine might someday be Russian or might not be Russian. He was potentially referring to how that would hinge upon whether Ukraine signs up to a deal, whether that's the peace deal his officials are working on or a more recent initiative over rare earth metals inside of Ukraine. That's unclear.

But it is certainly something that Moscow has seized upon, closer as it is to their position that all of Ukraine should be under Russian control, should be denazified, and that a fifth, in the words of the Kremlin spokesperson, has already bravely, I paraphrase here, stood for becoming part of Russia, something he called an irreversible fact.

This is, of course, coming on the heels of stop-start diplomatic initiatives by the Trump administration. We know that their envoy for Ukraine, General Keith Kellogg, is going to Munich at the end of this week.

There were suggestions, potentially, that Donald Trump might meet President Volodymyr Zelenskyy of Ukraine in the days prior to that. That now seems fairly unlikely, given the time constraints. And, indeed, Trump, over the weekend, said that he had spoken to Russian President Vladimir Putin, something that the Kremlin refused to outright confirm.

So lots appear to be moving on the surface, but very little clear, concrete progress, or what you might expect to be some kind of roadmap towards a peace deal down the line. And it calls into question two real issues here.

How committed is Trump to Ukraine, an ally of the Biden administration and of the United States for well over three years, whose security is vital to that of America's European allies and NATO, vital trading partners for the United States?

[04:30:00] Is Trump seeking a quick deal? And if he can't get that, his interest will significantly wane. And, more importantly, where does Moscow fit into all of this?

They are winning on the battlefield, they are slowly edging forward, a huge loss to their own forces, but still seeing progress, certainly. And so ultimately, many are asking whether Russia, given that state of progress, is any mood to make a peace deal right now at all. So much to be addressed in the coming months, and many questions too about exactly where in his heart Donald Trump lies when it comes to Ukraine's security.

Nick Paton Walsh, CNN, London.

(END VIDEOTAPE)