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CNN International: Russian Citizen Released as Part of Fogel Exchange; Russia Continues to Pound Kyiv With Drones and Missiles; Trump Stands by Proposal to Take Control of Gaza; Israel Says Ceasefire Will End if Hamas Delays Hostage Release; Trump Pressures Jordan, Egypt to Accept His Gaza Proposal; Palestinians in Gaza Fearful War Could Resume; Hamas Accuses Israel of Multiple Ceasefire Violations; Federal Judge to Hear Arguments on Dismantling USAID; USAID Inspector General Fired After Criticizing Cuts; USAID Cuts Impact Thai Refugee Camp, Aid Groups Running Out of Funds; Trump and Musk Defend Overhaul of U.S. Government; U.S. Defense Secretary Pete Hegseth Speaks at NATO Headquarters; Two Stuck Astronauts May Get Home Earlier Than Expected; Paul McCartney Plays a Surprise Intimate Gig in New York; Great Dane Ramses May Earn World's Tallest Dog Title. Aired 8-9a ET
Aired February 12, 2025 - 08:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
[08:00:00]
JOHN BERMAN, CNN CO-ANCHOR OF "CNN NEWS CENTRAL": All right. Word this morning, the NASA astronauts, Butch Wilmore and Suni Williams, may come home sooner than expected, although that's all relative because they were initially supposed to come home last summer before there were issues with their Boeing spacecraft. Now, because there have been some switches in schedules, they could come back in early March, a couple of weeks earlier than planned.
More than 100 fishermen had to be rescued after a crack formed on a large chunk of ice that they were fishing in.
AMARA WALKER, CNN CO-ANCHOR OF "CNN NEWSROOM": Hi, everyone, and welcome to our viewers all around the world. I'm Amara Walker. This is "CNN Newsroom". Just ahead, a pivotal moment for Ukraine's fight against Russia. The new U.S. defense secretary will today meet with NATO members to discuss the conflict. Also, this as Donald Trump praises Vladimir Putin following the release of a U.S. citizen detained in Russia. Also, the president is doubling down on his claim that the U.S. will "Have Gaza" after meeting with Jordan's King.
And CNN takes a look at the real impact of the new administration's decision to cut funding to agencies such as USAID. We visit refugees from Myanmar who are facing a health crisis, and now without vital U.S. support.
The Trump Administration is hailing the release of an American imprisoned in Russia as a sign of good faith that could have implications for the effort to end the conflict in Ukraine. The White House secured freedom for American teacher Marc Fogel, who the State Department says was wrongfully detained in Russia for three years. The Kremlin says a Russian citizen detained in the U.S. has been released as part of an exchange involving Fogel. That person's identity has not yet been revealed. Now, after his release, Fogel was welcome to the White House where Mr. Trump called the deal a step in the right direction.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DONALD TRUMP, (R) PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA: I think there's goodwill in terms of the war. It could be a big, important part of getting the war over with Ukraine.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
WALKER: Now, Ukraine's president says Russia is not preparing for peace, as Moscow launched another round of deadly strikes on Kyiv. Volodymyr Zelinskyy says one person was killed and four others injured. Meanwhile, the U.S. Defense Secretary, Pete Hegseth, is at NATO headquarters in Brussels. He is expected to push NATO and the E.U. to take more responsibility for Ukraine.
Natasha Bertrand is now joining us from Brussels with the details. So Natasha, in light of all these developments, I mean, what are we expecting to hear from Hegseth today?
NATASHA BERTRAND, CNN NATIONAL SECURITY CORRESPONDENT: Well, interestingly, he did have his first meeting just moments ago with Ukrainian Defense Minister Rustem Umerov, that readout from that meeting was fairly short. He said that they discussed ongoing U.S. support to Ukraine as well as what kind of defense needs Ukraine will need, ahead of this meeting that they're expected to have here at NATO headquarters, to coordinate U.S. and NATO and allied military assistance to the Ukrainians.
But broadly, the message that we are anticipating from Hegseth when he speaks to these allies at this forum today, we should note that forum for the first time in three years is going to be chaired by the U.K. and not by the U.S., is that the NATO alliance as well as the Europeans, they need to step up and they need to do more to help Ukraine to defend themselves and to strengthen European security because the U.S. is going to be stepping back from that.
The U.S. is going to be focusing essentially on its own security and its own borders. Something that we have seen, of course, has been a priority for the Trump Administration, and particularly Hegseth who has deployed military assets to the southern border in the U.S. in recent weeks. And so, there is an understanding here that the U.S. is no longer going to be taking the lead when it comes to support for Ukraine, or even helping to bolster the alliance on NATO's Eastern Flank, where they are most vulnerable to that ongoing Russian aggression.
It's unclear at this point just how the NATO alliance is taking that. They were prepared for this. NATO allies have said openly that they understand that they need to do more, that they need to step up, that they can't continuously rely only on the U.S. and hope that the U.S. continues to provide all of this money and equipment. So, they get that. But at the same time, the Ukrainians are very worried about this. They say that yes, they value the Europeans, they value the NATO alliance, something they want to be a part of, of course, but nothing can ultimately substitute that American leadership and those American security guarantees that they really want.
As of right now, it does not seem like they're going to get any kind of promise when it comes to that. Amara?
WALKER: All right. Natasha Bertrand, thanks so much. Let's head over now to Moscow where Frederik Pleitgen is standing by. And let's first start with the release of this American teacher, Marc Fogel. And you know, what the reaction has been there in Moscow?
FREDERIK PLEITGEN, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Well, there's been a flurry of reactions here from the Russians, but one of the things that we're not actually hearing from the Russians very much is a lot of details about all of this.
[08:05:00]
You had the spokesman for the Kremlin Dmitry Peskov earlier today who was asked about all of this, and he would only say that a Russian citizen is being released in return for Marc Fogel being allowed to leave the Russian Federation. However, he would not say who that Russian citizen is, saying that the name would only be disclosed once that Russian citizen is actually back on Russian soil.
So it seems as though with this exchange, as the Trump Administration calls it, Amara, it is not one that has actually been completed yet. But it seems as though the Russians are still waiting for their side of the bargain, for their citizen to be brought back home, and so far are not disclosing the name of that person. At the same time, I mean, we have to see that in the past 24 hours or so, a lot of things have happened here in Russia that we haven't seen over the past couple of day -- years since Russia's full-on invasion of Ukraine.
To have, essentially, a plane with a U.S. government official land here in Moscow is definitely something that doesn't happen here every day. And that's sort of how all of this started out yesterday, is that a plane belonging to Steve Witkoff had landed here in Moscow. People were asking why that was the case. The Russians were remaining coy about it, and it was only in the evening that we found out that Marc Fogel had indeed been released and that he was back on his way to the United States. And all this of course, negotiated very quickly, after the Trump Administration has taken office.
For Marc Fogel himself, for those who support him and supported him for such a very long time, obviously, this is a huge deal. The Fogel family were very disappointed last year when there was a big prisoner exchange and Marc Fogel was not part of that. The other part of this, Amara, and this is something that's also being discussed here in Moscow, is the Trump Administration saying that they believe that all of the signals, progress in what they hope will be their efforts to end the war in Ukraine. And it certainly seems to us as though the Russians are not willing to go that far at this point in time. In fact, the Kremlin spokesman, Dmitry Peskov, he came out and he said, look, an event like this is not going to turn things around as far as diplomatic relations between the United States and Russia is concerned, or as far as the war is concerned. But he also says that, of course, all this is something that will be build trust between the Putin Administration and the Trump Administration, that of course could help as well moving forward, Amara.
WALKER: All right, Frederik Pleitgen, appreciate your reporting. Thank you very much. Now, U.S. President Donald Trump is doubling down on his proposal to take over Gaza, injecting even more uncertainty in the shaky ceasefire deal between Israel and Hamas. At a meeting with Jordan's King Abdullah at that White House Tuesday, President Trump repeated his view that Palestinians should be moved out to third countries, including Egypt and Jordan. And he outlined his vision for the enclave.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TRUMP: There is nothing to buy. It's Gaza. It's a war-torn area. We're going to take it, we're going to hold it, we're going to cherish it.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: And Mr. Biden, take it under what authority? It is sovereign territory.
TRUMP: Under the U.S. authority.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
WALKER: Later, the king said there was a unified Arab position against the displacement and forced relocation of the Palestinians. Meanwhile, Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu issued an ultimatum to Hamas after the group threatened to postpone a hostage release on Saturday.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
BENJAMIN NETANYAHU, ISRAELI PRIME MINISTER: If Hamas does not return our hostages by Saturday noon, the ceasefire will end and the military will return to intense fighting until Hamas is finally defeated.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
WALKER: Both Israel and Hamas are each ratcheting up allegations that the other party has violated the deal. CNN's Jeremy Diamond has more.
JEREMY DIAMOND, CNN JERUSALEM CORRESPONDENT: Well, the ceasefire between Israel and Hamas certainly seems to be hanging on by a thread, the most precarious moment in its three-week existence so far for a ceasefire that was supposed to last at least six weeks. The Israeli Prime Minister now issuing this ultimatum, saying if Hamas does not return our hostages by Saturday noon, "The ceasefire will end." Saying that Israeli troops who have already begun to amass in greater numbers along the Gaza border will return to the fight in Gaza until "Hamas is completely defeated."
Now, the Israeli prime minister didn't go quite as far as President Trump when he made his ultimatum saying that all of the hostages, meaning all 76 hostages still being held in Gaza, should be returned by Saturday. Otherwise the ceasefire should be canceled. Instead, an Israeli official telling me that Israel is demanding that all nine remaining living hostages who were set to be released during phase one, that they be released in the coming days, indicating that the prime minister is perhaps trying to stay intentionally vague here, leaving himself a little bit of wiggle room to strike a deal by Saturday that would keep this ceasefire alive.
Nonetheless, this is a serious threat to this agreement, especially since Hamas has said that it won't release any hostages this coming Saturday, accusing Israel of a series of ceasefire violations including carrying out attacks against Palestinians in Gaza, and indeed the Palestinian Ministry of Health saying that 92 people have been killed by Israeli fire or shelling since the start of this ceasefire agreement.
[08:10:20]
Hamas, however, made clear that it is also leaving the door open to releasing hostages on Saturday, saying that it is making this threat with five days notice in order to give the mediators time to resolve this issue. And indeed, that is what is happening right now. Egypt and Qatar, the two mediators who have been leading these negotiations between Israel and Hamas, working to try and resolve this dispute. Whether or not they can get there in time for Saturday is another question altogether.
Jeremy Diamond, CNN, Tel Aviv.
WALKER: OK. Jeremy Diamond, thank you. And for more on the evolving situation, let's bring in Fawaz Gerges. He's a professor of international relations at the London School of Economics, and the author of " What Really Went Wrong: The West and the Failure of Democracy in the Middle East."
Fawaz, it's good to see you. Let's start with this meeting between Trump and King Abdullah of Jordan. I mean, it was obviously a very delicate and tricky situation for King Abdullah where he had to say no in an elegant way to Trump's plan to relocate all the Palestinians, many of them into Jordan, without undermining his relationship with Trump. I want to play a little bit of sound of what King Abdullah said there in the Oval Office.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
KING ABDULLAH II, JORDAN: I think the point is, how do we make this work in a way that is good for everybody.
TRUMP: Right.
ABDULLAH: And obviously, we have to look at the best interests of the United States, of the people in the region, especially to my people of Jordan.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
WALKER: How did he do?
FAWAZ GERGES, PROFESSOR, LONDON SCHOOL OF ECONOMICS: Well, I think he dodged the bullet. I think King Abdullah II kicked the can down the road. I think he was pressed between a rock, his relationship with the United States -- remember, Jordan receives more than $1.5 billion a year in American economic and military aid, and a harder place that is any kind of expulsion of Palestinians from Gaza to Jordan would basically represent an existential threat to the kingdom.
So what he tried to do is to really avoid a confrontation, a direct confrontation with Trump. He did it after he left, he rebuffed Donald Trump's idea about ethnic cleansing of Gaza. He said no to the expulsion of the Palestinians, and no, Jordan will not receive more Palestinians from either Gaza or the West Bank.
WALKER: Yeah. So then where do things go from here? Because like you said, King Abdullah II, he faces an existential crisis, especially if he were to agree to such an outrageous plan because there are security implications, but also political tensions that have been growing.
GERGES: Well, I mean, I think what we need to take into account is that Donald Trump is pouring gasoline on a raging far. I mean, look, you talked to Jeremy Diamond, your reporter, a minute ago. Now, we're talking about the future of the first phase of the ceasefire is on line. But even if the ceasefire, the first phase goes on, on Saturday, I doubt it very much whether the second phase will ever basically survive.
Before his inauguration, in January, everyone was praising Donald Trump because Benjamin Netanyahu gifted the ceasefire to Donald Trump. Donald Trump was seen as a man of peace. He did not really like wars. Now, you see a radically changed Donald Trump. He gives an ultimatum to Hamas. He wants to bring hell to Gaza. He has basically empowered the Israeli prime minister. He has given him a green light to resume the war whenever, and if he wants to, either this Saturday or after.
So, this is a very dangerous moment, not only for the ceasefire, but even for regional stability. What talk -- what we're talking about now is that Donald Trump's incomprehensible idea about really owning Gaza is really a harmful idea for regional stability, particularly for America's allies, Egypt and Jordan.
WALKER: You know, I have to ask this rhetorical question then, of what is Trump's broader strategy then, if he's talking about ending the war, which clearly it's -- that is not the path that this is on right now, and also taking over Gaza?
[08:15:00]
GERGES: With all humility, I think, think how much time and space and ink have been spent on trying to really overanalyze Donald Trump. Could it be that Donald Trump is Donald Trump? Donald Trump is really irrational. Donald Trump is chaotic. Donald Trump is unpredictable. Donald Trump basically utters whatever comes to his mind. It's one of the most foolish ideas proposed by an American president on the Middle East. I mean, listen, listen to what he says.
He wants to see his Gaza. Yet at the same time, he does not really want to send an army, American army to basically take over. He wants to own Gaza. How he will do it, based on American authority, unilateral American decision. He wants to expel 2 million Palestinians of Gaza. How he will do it? He said they will love it. He wants to basically expel 2 million Palestinians to Jordan and Egypt, and he thinks Egypt will take them and Jordan. Yet both countries have rejected the idea. Think about it.
There is universal opposition, universal opposition even in the United States, even among the Republican Party. It tells you a great deal. Let's not overanalyze Donald Trump.
WALKER: Yeah.
GERGES: This is really a very foolish, very dangerous idea --
WALKER: Yeah.
GERGES: -- that was proposed by Donald Trump.
WALKER: Look, I agree with you, Fawaz. I think that the media, and I humbly say this as well, we tend to overanalyze and perhaps even overreact to some of the things that Trump says. And perhaps he doesn't even have a strategy in mind, even after he says these outrageous things. You mentioned that you don't believe that this ceasefire deal will even move into the second phase. Do you believe that things could fall apart then on Saturday?
GERGES: Well, I'm hoping not because I think, Israeli prime minister's video was very vague. So he did not really say all Israeli hostages. He said Israeli hostages. And Hamas also has made it very clear that it abides by the terms of the ceasefire. I mean, remember what the New York Times basically reported in the next -- in the past two days, three Israeli officials and two mediators, two neutral mediators have made it very clear that Israel has not observed the terms of the ceasefire.
90 Palestinians have been killed in Gaza since the ceasefire, and mainly no tents, no winter items and medicine, basically, have reached, I mean, hundreds of thousands of Palestinians. So at the end of the day, my take on it is that really it's 50/50 chance that the ceasefire could either collapse on Saturday or go on. But I'm really very pessimistic about the second phase and the reason why I'm pessimistic, because Donald Trump has already given Benjamin Netanyahu a green light to resume the war. And that's exactly what Benjamin Netanyahu and his far-right extremist coalition want to do.
WALKER: Absolutely. All right, Fawaz Gerges, thank you for your time. Appreciate it.
Well, world leaders are showing their concern over President Trump's Gaza plan, as Fawaz was saying. Last week, our Richard Quest sat down with French President Emmanuel Macron, and he praised Mr. Trump's efforts in the region, but says the current proposal is not the right answer for Palestinians in Gaza.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
EMMANUEL MACRON, FRENCH PRESIDENT: Look, I think President Trump took a very bold and important decision in the past regarding this region with the Abraham agreement. And I have to say that these moves were very smart and efficient moves, and did change the situation.
Second, a lot of military operations targeted against Hezbollah, Shia militias, and top leaders in Iran launched by, and obviously Hamas leaders launched by Israel did change the landscape and weaken these strategic enemies. But we are in a situation which is absolutely terrible for everybody in Gaza since more than one year. Obviously, we did condemn the terrorist attack launched by Hamas against Israel and we are very much attached to the right of Israel to live in peace and security in this region. And we do support existence and security of the state of Israel and all the Israeli people.
But I always reiterated my disagreement with Prime Minister Netanyahu and my condemnation of the operations launch in Gaza, because I don't believe one second that such a massive operation, targeting sometimes civilian people, is the right answer. This is a politic (ph), this is today, I mean, humanitarian situation. So we have the ceasefire, we have to preserve it. We have to restore humanitarian operations and we have to save maximum number of people.
But now, the right answer is not a real estate operation. This is a political operation, just because this is not a free land.
[08:20:00]
This is a place where 2 million people live and want to live. And just because international rights and a lot of treaties and agreements were negotiated, and even the U.S. did recognize these rights, so you cannot say to 2 million people, OK, now, guess what? You will move. The whole story of humanity is made of tiny part of places where even less than 2 million people were ready to go till the end because they wanted just to stay.
So, I think we have to, to stick to our principles. Sometimes in this world, you have the feeling to be so old fashioned when you speak about principles. But I will tell you, this is the humanity and the civilization is a process. And the process of the civilization is that you learn generation after generations, and this is how you improve yourself. And we did learn that you can get rid of people and just push them out of their place when they have a legitimate right to live in their place being recognized by everybody.
So I think we have to respect the willingness of Palestinian people to have a state, and we have to respect Jordan, Egypt, these sovereign countries, because they want their security. They want to keep their borders, and they just say, what are you doing? What are you proposing? You want to push them to my country? So let's be collectively respectful because it'll be the precondition to be efficient.
And I think being efficient doesn't mean automatically that you should lack of respect to people or countries. So I think what we need now is a collective approach by Arab and Gulf leaders with European leaders, when they are ready to do so, to work together and to build. And I think it would be great if the U.S. could join.
The day after in Gaza, which political system and leadership, what type of security guarantees and obviously, which type of reconstruction.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
WALKER: All right. Still to come, fired over email. Why the Inspector General of USAID was told not to come back to work today. Plus, in the regions where USAID can mean the difference between life and death, tens of thousands of people are suddenly left without basic healthcare following Donald Trump's funding freeze. CNN travels to a hospital on the Thailand-Myanmar border.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[08:25:00]
WALKER: In the coming hours, a judge in Washington will hear arguments on whether to indefinitely block the Trump Administration's attempts to dismantle USAID. It comes after Donald Trump and Elon Musk took aim at the agency again, accusing it of corruption.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TRUMP: The USAID is really corrupt, I'll tell you. It's corrupt, it's incompetent, and it's really corrupt.
ELON MUSK, DEPARTMENT OF GOVERNMENT EFFICIENCY: Overall, if you say what is the bang for the buck, I would say it was not very good. And there was far too much of what USAID was doing was influencing elections in ways that I think were dubious and do not stand the light of day. (END VIDEO CLIP)
WALKER: On Tuesday, the Inspector General of USAID was told in an email that he had been fired effective immediately. A spokesperson for Paul Martin's office said no reason was given, but sources tell CNN that Martin was fired just a day after his office released a report criticizing Trump and Musk's behavior towards USAID. The Administration is required under law to provide 30 days notice to Congress before firing an Inspector General and is supposed to provide reasons.
The sweeping changes ordered by President Trump and Elon Musk are having a real impact on people across the world who desperately need help. Ivan Watson takes us inside a refugee camp in Thailand.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE) IVAN WATSON, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): This is what happens when the world's biggest aid donors suddenly stops sending money. Families ordered to evacuate their sick loved ones from this hospital in the mountains of western Thailand. Days later, the hospital deserted, its front gate locked shut.
WATSON: This is a refugee camp for tens of thousands of people who fled the civil war across the nearby border in neighboring Myanmar. The hospital here largely depended on U.S. government funding which suddenly stopped. And now, nearly two weeks later, there isn't a single doctor on duty for this community of more than 30,000 people.
WATSON (voice-over): It's a 30-minute drive from this sprawling refugee camp to the nearest Thai hospital. The director here shocked by the sudden closure of the camp hospital.
WATSON: Has this been stressful, these last two weeks for you?
DR. TAWATCHI YINGTAWEESAK, DIRECTOR OF THA SONG YANG HOSPITAL: Yes. Yes, I think so. Yeah. So dangerous.
WATSON (voice-over): His facility has to suddenly absorb some of the refugee camp's patients, and that includes three-year-old Mary.
WATSON: Is this your first baby?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Yeah, first baby.
WATSON: You're going to be a mama soon. You're going to be a mother.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Yeah.
WATSON (voice-over): Suffering high blood pressure, she was rushed to this maternity ward this morning and is now in labor, far from her family and home at the camp.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE (through translator): I just want to ask the U.S. government why they have to stop helping the refugees.
WATSON (voice-over): On January 20th, President Donald Trump ordered an immediate 90-day pause in all U.S. foreign aid. He declared the USAID industry is not aligned with American interest and claims it serves to destabilize world peace. For years, Myanmar has been ripped apart by a brutal civil war, a military dictatorship that seized power in a coup in 2021 battling numerous insurgent groups.
The conflicts forced more than 3 million people to flee their homes. And now, aid organizations tell CNN, they only have a month and a half of funding left to feed refugees along the Thai border with Myanmar, leaving smaller aid groups scrambling to fill the gap.
WATSON: You're going into Myanmar?
KANCHANA THORNTON, DIRECTOR, BURMA CHILDREN MEDICAL FUND: This is -- will go across the border, yeah. WATSON (voice-over): Kanchana Thornton regularly takes food, infant formula and medicine across the border river to desperate people in the conflict zone. The U.S. funding cut made matters worse.
WATSON: Why is it affecting you? You don't get money from Washington.
THORNTON: Well, patient come to us and asking us for help.
WATSON: Because they're not getting it from the original?
THORNTON: They are not -- yeah, because they're not getting support that they should from the NGO that got the funding cut.
WATSON (voice-over): Everywhere we go in this poverty-stricken border region, we hear about basic services disrupted and aid workers being laid off.
WATSON: This clinic treats nearly 500 patients a day. It receives nearly 20 percent of its funding from the U.S. government. Washington has been sending money here for at least 20 years. But now, all of that has stopped.
WATSON (voice-over): Uncertainty, now felt by Rebecca and her nine- year-old daughter Rosella.
WATSON: Yeah. Can you show me your favorite pictures?
WATSON (voice-over): The residents of the refugee camp who had to move out of the hospital when it shut down last month, even though Rosella was born with a bone condition, she needs oxygen round the clock.
[08:30:00]
My daughter needs the hospital to be open, Rebecca says, and so do I because I'm pregnant. The cut in U.S. funding means this pregnant mother no longer has access to a doctor and she doesn't know how much longer her daughter's oxygen will last.
WATSON: The pause in U.S. funding has already become a matter of life and death here. The International Rescue Committee tells CNN that an elderly woman who couldn't get access to supplemental oxygen died after the hospital in her refugee camp closed last month. Life has never been easy for refugees in this porous border region. And if the world's largest aid donor truly does pull out, I think it's fair to say life will get much, much harder.
Ivan Watson, CNN, on the Thailand-Myanmar border.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
WALKER: Still to come, Elon Musk warns the U.S. may no longer be a democracy because he suggests bureaucrats have too much power. The details when we come back. Then testing the boundaries of executive power while sidelining the checks and balances, is the nation now facing a constitutional crisis? (COMMERCIAL BREAK)
WALKER: Donald Trump and Elon Musk ushered reporters into the Oval Office Tuesday to defend their efforts to slash the size of the federal government. Now, President Trump signed an executive order instructing government agencies to work with Musk's Department of Government Efficiency to cut staff and limit new hires. As Musk took questions from the assembled media, he spoke about massive fraud and waste inside the government, but offered no proof to back up his claims.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
MUSK: If there's not a good feedback loop from the people to the government, and if you have rule of the bureaucrat, or if the bureaucracy's in charge, and then, what meaning does democracy actually have? If the people cannot vote and have their will be decided by their elected representatives in the form of the president and the Senate and the House, then we don't live in a democracy. We live in a bureaucracy.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
WALKER: With more on the extraordinary scene of the world's richest man and the world's most powerful man, side by side in the Oval Office. Here's CNN's Alayna Treene.
ALAYNA TREENE, CNN WHITE HOUSE REPORTER: Well, Amara, I really found that image to be very striking, especially after we saw that Time Magazine cover of Elon Musk sitting behind the Resolute Desk come out last week. Now, we're actually seeing him, in person standing beside the Resolute Desk, next to President Donald Trump, taking questions for roughly 30 minutes from reporters.
[08:35:00]
I think it's just a very good example of his growing influence right now. And it's also really the first time we've seen him take questions, certainly at length, ever since the president was elected, but also since this D.O.G.E. purview of him hunting through the federal government to find waste and abuse became part of his portfolio. But look, I think a big part of this was really trying to answer questions that we know are coming from all corners of Washington, from Capitol Hill to the courts about Musk's influence, what he's doing, and also some of that accountability on unchecked power, noting of course that Musk is an unelected official.
And one thing as well that I know is that, it seemed almost like a spur of the moment surprise thing that he was in there in the Oval Office with the president before some of these executive orders were being signed. But I was actually told by a White House official on Monday that this was planned, that they wanted him to be there, to stand there while he was signing these D.O.G.E. related executive orders, but also to take questions and kind of cut out what they've been calling the mystique that has surrounded Musk and the Department of Government Efficiency. Now, we did hear some reporters ask Musk specifically, what is your formula for how you are trying to hunt down this bureaucracy and take a sledgehammer to this bureaucracy that you're talking about? Listen to what he said.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
MUSK: What are the two ingredients that are really necessary in order to cut the budget deficit in half from $2 trillion to $1 trillion? And it's really two things, competence and caring. And if you add competence and caring, you'll cut the budget deficit in half.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
TREENE: Competence and caring, Amara, not really much to go off of there. But look, I also think one of the most interesting parts of that session is when he talked about transparency. Musk said, "Transparency is what builds trust" and insistent that everything his team is doing is being publicized and made public on social media or on the D.O.G.E. website. But actually, we know that transparency has not actually been very clear as it relates to D.O.G.E. and what they're doing.
Much of what we have learned of their different actions has been through what sources inside some of these different agencies are coming and telling reporters like us. We also know that there are people in the Trump Administration itself, in the White House, that have been questioning what is D.O.G.E. doing on a regular basis. So I still think a lot of questions about accountability to still be answered. Amara?
WALKER: A bizarre and extraordinary moment there in the Oval Office. Alayna, thank you. As President Trump and Elon Musk defend their sweeping efforts to reshape, if not dismantle much of the federal government, they are testing the boundaries of executive power while disregarding Congress' role and challenging the powers of the judiciary. Is this a sign the nation may be facing a constitutional crisis?
From his attempts to provoke birthright citizenship to freezing federal spending, ending government programs, and even closing agencies altogether, Mr. Trump is facing pushback in a slew of emergency lawsuits. But even some of the president's top advisers have cast doubt on whether rulings on those lawsuits would constrain him. Corey Brettschneider is a Political Science Professor at Brown University and the author of the book, "The Presidents and the People: Five Leaders Who Threatened Democracy and the Citizens Who Fought to Defend It." He's joining me now live from New York.
Corey, thanks for your time. Let me just ask you --
COREY BRETTSCHNEIDER, PROFESSOR OF POLITICAL SCIENCE, BROWN UNIVERSITY: Thanks for having me.
WALKER: Absolutely. This basic question of all the executive orders, the slew of them that we have seen Trump sign, would you say many of them are illegal, especially when it comes to dismantling some of these agencies and not giving notice and not giving Congress a heads up?
BRETTSCHNEIDER: Absolutely, and I think the president and the staff are well aware of that, and part of what they're trying to do is undo the constitutional order. You heard Elon Musk give, I thought, a pretty bad explanation of what American democracy is. This is somebody who hasn't studied American democracy and doesn't even understand its most basic precepts.
The idea in America is that we are governed by a rule of law, by laws passed by Congress over time. The Clean Air Act, the Clean Water Act, laws establishing agencies, and also Congress has, not the president, the power to allocate money. So what these executive orders do, it's just blatantly disregard both the law and the Constitution. And that's not what American democracy is about.
WALKER: Yeah. You can't have a democracy, especially when powerful people don't abide by the law. So let's talk about what's been happening, Corey, over the last few days where we've seen court decisions against Trump coming in quite rapidly, covering his dismantling of USAID, the freezing of federal funding, birthright citizenship and more.
[08:40:00] I guess the question that a lot of scholars are asking is, what happens if Trump defies these court orders?
BRETTSCHNEIDER: Well, how upsetting and speaking of the fundamentals of American democracy, really since the founding, the idea has been clearly established that nobody, not even a president, is above the law. And that we are bound, including presidents, the most powerful people, public officials, by court orders. And yet, you hear J.D. Vance and others really flirting with the idea that if court decisions don't go their way and they are not going their way because there is an open defiance of the law going on here, that they might defy them.
And that's really what makes this a constitutional crisis. In fact, many have called it, and I think it's right to call it an attempted coup. It's not a violent coup, but it's an attempt to really undo the constitutional order, to remake it. And nowhere is that most apparent, but for the fact that there is not a clear willingness as all officials are bound by the oath to abide by the law and the Constitution to listen when a court tells you, you've acted illegally.
WALKER: All right, Corey, we're going to leave it there because we got to go to Brussels right now, where the Defense Secretary Pete Hegseth is speaking. Let's listen.
PETE HEGSETH, U.S. DEFENSE SECRETARY: -- the UDCG. This is my first Ukraine Defense Contact Group and I'm honored to join all of you today. And I appreciate the opportunity to share President Trump's approach to the war in Ukraine. We are at, as you said, Mr. Secretary, a critical moment. As the war approaches its third anniversary, our message is clear. The bloodshed must stop and this war must end. President Trump has been clear with the American people and with many of your leaders, that stopping the fighting and reaching an enduring peace is a top priority. He intends to end this war by diplomacy and bringing both Russia and Ukraine to the table. And the U.S. Department of Defense will help achieve this goal. We will only end this devastating war and establish a durable peace by coupling allied strength with a realistic assessment of the battlefield.
We want, like you, a sovereign and prosperous Ukraine. But we must start by recognizing that returning to Ukraine's pre-2014 borders is an unrealistic objective. Chasing this illusionary goal will only prolong the war and cause more suffering. A durable piece for Ukraine must include robust security guarantees to ensure that the war will not begin again. This must not be Minsk 3.0.
That said, the United States does not believe that NATO membership for Ukraine is a realistic outcome of a negotiated settlement. Instead, any security guarantee must be backed by capable European and non- European troops. If these troops are deployed as peacekeepers to Ukraine at any point, they should be deployed as part of a non-NATO mission, and they should not be covered under Article V.
There also must be robust international oversight of the line of contact. To be clear, as part of any security guarantee, there will not be U.S. troops deployed to Ukraine. To further enable effective diplomacy and drive down energy prices that fund the Russian war machine, President Trump is unleashing American energy production and encouraging other nations to do the same. Lower energy prices, coupled with more effective enforcement of energy sanctions, will help bring Russia to the table.
Safeguarding European security must be an imperative for European members of NATO. As part of this, Europe must provide the overwhelming share of future lethal and non-lethal aid to Ukraine. Members of this Contact Group must meet the moment. This means donating more ammunition and equipment, leveraging comparative advantages, expanding your defense industrial base, and importantly, leveling with your citizens about the threat facing Europe.
Part of this is speaking frankly with your people about how this threat can only be met by spending more on defense. 2 percent is not enough. President Trump has called for 5 percent, and I agree.
[08:45:00]
Increasing your commitment to your own security is a down payment for the future. A down payment, as you said Mr. Secretary, of peace through strength. We're also here today to directly and unambiguously express that stark strategic realities prevent the United States of America from being primarily focused on the security of Europe. The United States faces consequential threats to our homeland. We must and we are focusing on security of our own borders.
We also face a pure competitor in the Communist Chinese, with the capability and intent to threaten our homeland and core national interests in the Indo-Pacific. The U.S. is prioritizing deterring war with China in the Pacific, recognizing the reality of scarcity and making the resourcing trade-offs to ensure deterrence does not fail. Deterrence cannot fail for all of our sakes. As the United States prioritizes its attention to these threats, European allies must lead from the front.
Together, we can establish a division of labor that maximizes our comparative advantages in Europe and Pacific, respectively. In my first weeks as Secretary of Defense under President Trump's leadership, we've seen promising signs that Europe sees this threat, understands what needs to be done, and is stepping up to the task.
For example, Sweden recently announced its largest-ever assistance package. We applaud them for committing $1.2 billion in ammunition and other needed material. Poland is spending 5 percent of GDP on defense already, which is a model for the continent. And 14 other countries are co-leading capability coalitions. These groups are doing great work to coordinate Europe's contributions of legal assistance across eight key capability areas. These are first steps, more must still be done.
We ask each of your countries to step up on fulfilling the commitments that you have made. And we challenge your countries and your citizens to double down and recommit yourselves, not only to Ukraine's immediate security needs, but to Europe's long-term defense and deterrence goals. Our Transatlantic Alliance has endured for decades, and we fully expect that it will be sustained for generations to come. But this won't just happen. It will require our European allies to step into the arena and take ownership of conventional security on the continent.
The United States remains committed to the NATO alliance and to the defense partnership with Europe. But, the United States will no longer tolerate an imbalanced relationship which encourages dependency. Rather, our relationship will prioritize empowering Europe to own responsibility for its own security. Honesty will be our policy going forward, but only in the spirit of solidarity.
President Trump looks forward to working together, to continuing this frank discussion amongst friends, and to achieve peace through strength together. Thank you.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Secretary Hegseth, (inaudible).
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: No questions, I'm afraid. Secretary Hegseth, we hear you. We hear your commitment to NATO, to Article V, to a Sovereign Ukraine, and to your defense partnership.
WALKER: OK. So, you just heard live remarks there from Brussels at this NATO headquarters, this meeting, where the Defense Secretary Pete Hegseth just had some stunning words for his counterparts. Basically, everything he said would be favorable to Russia. Let's bring in Corey Brettschneider. He is a Political Science Professor at Brown University.
I mean, it is stunning. He's basically saying, Russia could keep the land and Ukraine will not be able to -- should not be able to join NATO.
BRETTSCHNEIDER: Yes. I mean, to my mind, these are all issues to be decided upon in a negotiation, if there was to be peace talks between Ukraine and Russia, and you don't want to take off chips off the table that could be used in that kind of negotiation. And that's the worry that he here is starting to take things off the table, that should be part of the negotiation.
[08:50:00]
It's certainly a huge shift in my mind, despite things like he did say that we were committed to NATO, I was relieved to see that. There was a worry that this is administration is considering pulling out of NATO, and at least he said some words to the effect of trying to reassure us on that. He did also combine it with talking about, well, he pointed to American isolationism. But yes, we have a huge shift here from the previous presidency.
WALKER: Yeah. So, I guess, the Trump Administration's idea of ending this war is basically ceding to Russia and allowing Russia to keep the land that it has stolen during this war from Ukraine. I would've loved to have been able to read the minds of these NATO allies, wouldn't you?
BRETTSCHNEIDER: Yes. I mean, I think, unfortunately, and you're seeing gestures in this direction that we were talking earlier about threats to the rule of law at home, and the theme of this administration I think is going to be undermining the international rule of law. And there are international institutions, there are international principles, of course not attacking your neighbors and being able to claim the land in victory when you've acted illegally as Russia has in this war.
And unfortunately, I think, whether he meant to or not, this isn't an experienced Secretary of Defense after all, it's a TV commentator that's thrust into this role. It looks like he gave a lot of way and that he, rather than trying to reassure the international community, he sent a worry that the U.S. won't be committed to the international rule of law.
WALKER: Yeah. And we have yet to see Ukraine's response to this, but obviously, it will not be positive. Corey Brettschneider, thank you for the conversation. And we'll be right back.
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WALKER: NASA says two astronauts stuck in space may return to Earth a few weeks earlier than previously thought. Butch Wilmore and Suni Williams flew to the International Space Station aboard the Boeing Star Liner's first crude test flight back in June. Well, that launch was the start of a planned week-long mission. However, safety issues prolonged their stay to what's now been eight months.
NASA intended to use a new SpaceX capsule to bring a new crew to the Space Station, but the use of that craft was delayed as well. So, the space agency announced on Tuesday they would use an older SpaceX capsule for the Crew-10 Mission, allowing Wilmore and Williams to return home in mid-March instead of later that month or in April.
A few hundred lucky Paul McCartney fans were able to come together for a surprise concert in New York City. McCartney usually sells out stadiums, but he decided to get back to Manhattan's Bowery Ballroom, which holds just 575 people. The concert was announced earlier on Tuesday and in just half an hour, fans snatched up all the tickets. Of course, they did. The 82-year-old legend rocked them with hits from his Beatles and Wings eras. Fans were in awe when they saw him standing there.
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UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: It was incredible. This is actually my tenth time seeing Paul McCartney. I have no words for it. I honestly thought he was going to go on for three hours, like he usually does. But I'll take this.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: He still played gems like, Can't Buy Me Love, Beatles hits. Hey Jude, Let It Be. But he also fit in Wings songs.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
[08:55:00]
WALKER: All right. Now, let me introduce you to Ramses. He weighs nearly 200 pounds. Oh my goodness. Or about 90 kilograms and maybe the tallest dog in the world. That is one large dog. It is a Great Dane. And the owner recently had a measure to submit his height to the Guinness Book of World Records. What are they feeding him? The current record holder, another Great Dane, stands at more than three foot, five inches tall. And there is one dog who has already received his crown.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I choose the giant schnauzer.
(CROWD CHEERING)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Oh, Monty. He did it. Three years and he finally ends best in show. What a great day.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
WALKER: Oh, Monty, you heard there, he is a giant schnauzer from New Jersey. He won the prestigious "Best in Show" Award at this year's Westminster Kennel Club Dog Show in New York. He is a beauty. Having triumph in the working group for the last three years, Monty finally became the first giant schnauzer to claim the top prize. Lots of free friends on this show today.
Thank you being with me here on "CNN Newsroom." I'm Amara Walker. "Connect the World" is up next.
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