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Worst Flu Season in 15 Years; Senate Confirms Tulsi Gabbard as Director of National Intelligence; Interview With Sen. Peter Welch (D- VT). Aired 11:30a-12p ET

Aired February 12, 2025 - 11:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[11:34:01]

PHIL MATTINGLY, CNN HOST: We are continuing to follow the breaking news.

The Senate vote on Tulsi Gabbard's nomination to be director of national intelligence is under way. Yes, we expect her to be confirmed. Yes, she has the requisite number of votes. However, a vote is not called until the gavel drops. So we're continuing to wait. We're also waiting to see if -- Senator Mitch McConnell, how he ends up voting as well.

So, I want to go back to Manu Raju, who has been following kind of all these dynamics.

Also, I believe you just spoke to a top Democrat Senator Richard Durbin. What are you hearing, Manu?

MANU RAJU, CNN CHIEF CONGRESSIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Yes, the Democrats recognize that there's very little that they can do.

I asked Dick Durbin, could you do anything differently? You guys fought this tooth and nail. What else? He said, what can we do? We don't have -- simply don't have the votes. He called the prospects and the expectation that Robert F. Kennedy Jr. will be confirmed.

In Durbin's word, he called that frightening. But that's really not -- it's really fallen on deaf ears of sorts among most Republican senators, who are really falling in line in both of these nomination votes. We do expect that she -- both Tulsi Gabbard is -- and to be confirmed here.

[11:35:02]

And I'm just seeing that Mitch McConnell, we're watching him go in towards the vote right now. He's the one Republican senator we are watching. And if he's a no-vote, he may be the only Republican no vote. He did not answer questions from reporters on his way into the Senate chamber.

That's someone to watch here. But, again, even if he is a no, that means that there would be almost certainly either 52-48 confirmation. She only needs 50 in order to get the job, with J.D. Vance, the vice president, could break any tie of sorts. We don't expect it even get to that level. So the worst it could get

for Tulsi Gabbard in this vote, expectation 52-48, she gets confirmed or 53-47, a straight party-line vote. And that's the situation that Democrats are in. Yes, they can slow down a lot of these nominations. Yes, they can be upset and they can make their arguments, but they can't stop it if Republicans don't break ranks.

And what we have seen through nomination after nomination, even the most controversial ones, that Republicans are almost totally universally in lockstep behind Donald Trump's picks. The only loss Donald Trump has had so far was when he had to pull back on Matt Gaetz to be the attorney general. That was before he was even formally nominated to the post.

But every other one that has generated a significant controversy, like the two we're seeing today, Tulsi Gabbard, Robert F. Kennedy Jr., the efforts behind the scenes to reassure those members and also the pressure campaign that was mounted as well, helped ensure that they get -- they got the votes, which we're going to see here in a matter of minutes when they call this vote, Tulsi Gabbard to get this job, a critical job.

And then they will move on to vote on clearing a Democratic filibuster, breaking a Democratic filibuster for Robert F. Kennedy Jr., who is expected to get his job by tomorrow night, Phil.

MATTINGLY: Yes, the only outstanding question, as Manu outlined so brilliantly, is how Mitch McConnell is going to vote, the former Senate Republican leader.

We're keeping an eye on the floor right now. Shout-out to Manu's producers. I know what it's like to fly blind in the Senate hallways. So, we're keeping you posted on that. So we will see when McConnell walks in, but Gabbard on her way to confirmation.

We're going to take a quick break. Everybody, stay with us. We will be back as this vote concludes.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[11:41:57]

MATTINGLY: We are continuing to watch the vote on Tulsi Gabbard's nomination to be director of national intelligence,very well on its way to confirmation. Still waiting for the final tally to come in.

We do know Mitch McConnell, the former Senate Republican leader,now senator, just senator, Republican from Kentucky, has voted no, second time he's gone against a Trump national security pick.

I want to go back to Manu Raju, who is in the hallways tracking senators, and has one with him right now.

MANU RAJU, CNN CHIEF CONGRESSIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Now. Yes, that's right. This is Senator Peter Welch, a Democrat of Vermont. But that's -- that was the news we were looking for. What will Senate Republican leader, the former Senate Republican, Mitch McConnell do on this vote, one of the two Republican swing votes? One of them, John Curtis, voted yes. Mitch McConnell voted no.

What is your reaction, Senator? Senator McConnell now on two national security picks broke with Trump, both with Pete Hegseth to be defense secretary, and now Tulsi Gabbard, and he could be the lone Republican. What's your reaction to that?

SEN. PETER WELCH (D-VT): Well, I'm impressed with Senator McConnell. I mean, the question is loyalty to Trump, and a lot of Republican colleagues are very loyal to Trump and fearful of straying, and then loyal to national security.

And on these two really important national security considerations, Hegseth, with very little to no experience, Gabbard, with little to no experience and really questionable conduct, Mitch McConnell voted to protect national security.

RAJU: These two votes, these two nominations, you guys, the Democrats battled tooth and nail over Gabbard, Robert F. Kennedy Jr. Gabbard is about to be confirmed here in matter of minutes, Robert F. Kennedy Jr. about to clear a Democratic filibuster, probably be confirmed by tomorrow.

What did you guys do that -- did you miss the mark in making your case to your Republican colleagues? And what could you have done differently?

WELCH: Well, we could have won 51 seats.

And the reality is, there's 53 Republicans. If they stuck together with just a few strays, they were going to be able to win. We did our level best to raise the question of competence in what their history was, the anti-vaccine history of Robert Kennedy, his questionable comments, the same thing with Gabbard, where she supported Edward Snowden, who betrayed our intelligence community.

She hung out with Bashar al-Assad. But, in the end, that didn't make a difference to the majority. And the majority, I think, had a lot of questions that they would acknowledge. But the vote they had to make had to stand the test of Trump.

RAJU: And RFK Jr., for one, he tried to clean up those vaccine comments in his confirmation hearings. That wasn't enough to satisfy your concerns?

WELCH: Well, your term is exactly right, clean up.

Everybody's in on the game here. You have a lifetime of fighting against vaccines. And then, when you're up for confirmation, you say, oh, no, just kidding. So the question for all of us, if we want to be serious in the evaluation of these candidates, is look at what they did. Look at their history. Don't look at what they're saying to try to get our vote. RAJU: All right, Senator Peter Welch of Vermont, thank you so much

for your perspective.

WELCH: Thank you.

RAJU: Appreciate it.

And, Phil, back to you, but you're hearing a lot of what Democrats are saying. They're concerned about what happened. They're saying they couldn't really do much. They didn't have the votes and they didn't have Republican -- enough Republican defections, just one here right now on Tulsi Gabbard, but a significant one, Mitch McConnell, the Republican leader, sending another message to the White House.

[11:45:07]

MATTINGLY: Yes, Manu, I appreciated the kind of plainspoken, if we had 51 votes, maybe that would help, from a former House guy. I think that's probably reflected in that.

I do want to ask you about McConnell, though. You have covered him for so many years. The decision to go against two national security picks, obviously unencumbered by leadership at this point, what do you make of it?

RAJU: Yes, it is really significant.

Remember, after he came out of the leadership, he was telling his colleagues that he has the shackles off, and he feels that he could really be a free agent. So much different than his time as a Republican leader, who -- he believed that he had to essentially take arrows for his colleagues, take unpopular positions and try to push his agenda forward, get his Republican leader members to fall in line behind whatever his party ultimately believed was beneficial at that moment.

Now a much different view. He views national security and a more robust presence in the world as one of his premier issues that he is fighting for. And he also is trying to defend the institution of the United States Senate itself. He's the chairman of the Senate Rules Committee and also chairman of the key Defense Subcommittee.

But on the national security fund, he is -- this is an issue that he will continue to push hard against. And, Phil, we will see how the White House responds, if Trump responds, but a swing vote on some of these national security questions, no doubt about it.

MATTINGLY: Yes, the cornerstone of his career, now in a very different moment when it comes to votes, as Manu knows better than anybody, a decade-plus of covering former Leader McConnell.

All right, we are continuing to watch this vote, waiting for the final tally to be called, as Tulsi Gabbard moves towards confirmation as director of national intelligence.

We will be back in a moment. (COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[11:52:13]

MATTINGLY: The breaking news. Tulsi Gabbard is now confirmed as the director of national intelligence, a pick that seemed on the fence at various points throughout the nomination process.

President Trump now has his pick confirmed to be sworn in; 52-48, Gabbard was confirmed. All Republicans but Mitch McConnell voted yes.All Democrats and senators that caucus with the Democratic Party voted no. Now moving on to a procedural vote for Robert F. Kennedy Jr., who's been talking about health issues, likely to move forward to be health and human services secretary.

He will probably have some say over the next issue we're going to be talking about, flu season. It is in full force across the United States. And, by one measure, it is the most intense 15 years -- in 15 years.

This morning, we are paging CNN's chief medical correspondent, Dr. Sanjay Gupta, to answer your questions.

DR. SANJAY GUPTA, CNN CHIEF MEDICAL CORRESPONDENT: Good morning.

MATTINGLY: Dr. Gupta, Jeff from Chandler, Arizona, tells us that he was vaccinated in September, still got the flu. So he asked -- quote -- "Why can't we get a better match between the vaccine and the strains actually out there?"

GUPTA: Yes, this was one of the most common questions we get.

And just to paint a little bit of a picture for you, when they're making the flu vaccine, they sort of have to predict how the flu virus is going to change for the next season, what strains are going to be predominantly straining.

So it's a little bit like looking into a crystal ball. So it can be challenging sometimes. So, we went back and looked over time to see how effective the flu vaccine is. That means, how likely is it to protect you from getting sick, from going to the hospital and possibly dying?

And you could take a look at the sort of trends there, Phil; 2010-2011 was the most effective year, really, in recent years for the flu vaccine. That year of 2020-2021, incidentally, that was during COVID. So we don't have numbers for that particular time period.

Right now, 42 percent roughly is what we see with the flu vaccine effectiveness so far this year, two predominant strains that are circulating, H1N1. You may remember, that was the 2009 pandemic, and H3N2. The vaccine seems to be more effective against H1N1 than H3N2, but that accounts for why people still may develop symptoms, may get sick, but hopefully not as sick as they otherwise would have.

MATTINGLY: When you lay that out, it brings up the question we actually got from Nancy, who asks: "Since the flu is still going strong, should you get the flu shot if you haven't already, or is that just in the fall?"

GUPTA: Short answer is yes. And let me just quickly show you this graph. I think this will make sense.

The question I often get is, when is flu the worst during any particular season? This is a graph sort of aggregated over 20 years to look at when you see the most flu activity, February. That's pretty consistently the time period, the month that we're in right now.

So there is still benefit. It takes about two weeks after you get the flu shot to get the benefit, to get the antibodies, but we're still very much in it, Phil.

[11:55:01]

MATTINGLY: And, finally, from Robin in Utah, wants to know: "If a fever temperature is part of having the flu?"

GUPTA: Almost always, it is.

There are some people who, interestingly, don't develop fever. It can be hard to know if you have flu versus a cold. Flu symptoms, they come on suddenly and they're more severe as a general rule.

One thing I will tell you, quickly, Phil, for the first time, there is a at-home flu test now, a test where you can actually test for the flu. This does three things, COVID, as well as two different types of flu.

This will look familiar to you, Phil. I hope it doesn't trigger anything for you, but swab, a little bit of reagent, and then one of these testing kits here to try and determine whether or not you actually test positive.

Hopefully, that's OK to show that. The reason that it can be important at home to get the testing, especially if you're high-risk, is because there's some antivirals that are going to work best if taken within the first couple of days. So, getting the at-home testing, getting your results early, that can help, Phil.

MATTINGLY: Yes, I got to say, the color scheme of the box when you held it up, it was like, oh, wait.

But then I thought, I got four kids, man.

GUPTA: Yes.

MATTINGLY: Like, we have the flu constantly and always. We might as well have a testing system for it.

GUPTA: Exactly. I'm in the same boat.

MATTINGLY: Dr. Sanjay Gupta, as always, my friend, really, really appreciate the help. GUPTA: You got it.

MATTINGLY: And finally this hour, there's a new pack leader.

Meet Monty, the giant schnauzer. He was crowned best in show at the Westminster Kennel Club. The sleek all-black canine broke a long drought for the working group. He's the first from that class to take home the prize in more than 20 years. Monty's owner had the best reaction to the win. "The puppy did the damn thing." That's a direct quote.

Yes, the puppy did. Good boy, very good boy. No Great Dane, but impressive, impressive pooch.

Thank you for joining us. I'm Phil Mattingly.

Stay with us. "INSIDE POLITICS WITH DANA BASH" starts right after the break.